The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brian will be touring in three distinct formats throughout 2018. Some shows will be "Greatest Hits" (e.g. "Not Pet Sounds") shows, while additional "Pet Sounds" shows will also be performed. Brian, Al, and Blondie will also be touring the full "Beach Boys Christmas Album" in November and December. The show will reportedly include the full Beach Boys "Christmas Album" as well as tracks from Brian's 2005 "What I Really Want for Christmas" album (in addition to other Beach Boys classic I would presume).

All "Pet Sounds" and "Christmas Album" dates thus far list Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin as special guests. The "Greatest Hits" show have Al listed; Blondie's participation is not confirmed thus far.

NOTE: All May shows were postponed (some or all will be rescheduled; TBA) due to Brian's back issues.

"Greatest Hits Live" Tour Dates:

April 18, 2018 - Colorado Springs, CO - Pikes Peak Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html)

April 19, 2018 - Denver, CO - Fillmore Auditorium (Private Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/fillmore-auditorium-denver-co-53ec2ffd.html)

April 21, 2018 - Ivins, UT - Tuacahn Amphitheatre
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

July 15, 2018 - Colwood, BC - Rock the Shores Festival
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/westshore-parks-colwood-bc-canada-7beb9ecc.html)

July 20, 2018 - Lincoln, RI - Twin River Event Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/twin-river-event-center-lincoln-ri-53ebf321.html)

July 21, 2018 - Pocono, PA - Mt. Airy Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/sherman-theater-summer-stage-mount-airy-casino-resort-mount-pocono-pa-3bebe4d4.html)

August 7, 2018 - Tel Aviv, Israel - Charles Bronfman Auditorium
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/charles-bronfman-auditorium-tel-aviv-israel-2beb48e2.html)

August 18, 2018 - Doncaster, England - Doncaster Racecourse
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/doncaster-racecourse-doncaster-england-3e8f917.html)

August 21, 2018 - Dublin, Ireland - Vicar Street
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/vicar-street-dublin-ireland-43e8e383.html)

August 22, 2018 - Dublin, Ireland - Vicar Street
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

August 25, 2018 - Portsmouth, England - Victorious Festival
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/southsea-common-portsmouth-england-6be8c21e.html)

November 1, 2018 - New Brunswick, NJ - State Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/state-theatre-new-brunswick-nj-23960423.html)

November 13, 2018 - Kansas City, MO - Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/kauffman-center-for-performing-arts-kansas-city-mo-33979ce5.html)

November 15, 2018 - St. Charles, MO - The Family Arena
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/family-arena-saint-charles-mo-5b978f6c.html)

November 17, 2018 - Carmel, IN - The Palladium at the Center for the Performing Arts
(SETLIST - Unavailable)


"Pet Sounds" Tour Dates:

July 19, 2018 - Morristown, NJ - Mayo Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/mayo-performing-arts-center-morristown-nj-33ebf8bd.html)

July 22, 2018 - Kingston, NY - Broadway Theater at UPAC
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/ulster-performing-arts-centre-kingston-ny-3ebd90b.html)

July 24, 2018 - Wilmington, NC - The Wilson Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/wilson-center-cape-fear-stage-wilmington-nc-3bebc8e0.html)

July 25, 2018 - North Charleston, SC - North Charleston Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/north-charleston-performing-arts-center-north-charleston-sc-7bebc258.html)

August 9, 2018 - Oxfordshire, England - Fairport's Cropredy Convention
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/festival-site-cropredy-england-33eb44a9.html)

August 11, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Anfiteatro Romano
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/teatro-greco-taormina-italy-5be8b728.html)

August 16, 2018 - Berlin, Germany - Admiralspalast
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/admiralspalast-berlin-germany-13e88969.html)

August 19, 2018 - Edinburgh, Scotland - Edinburgh Playhouse
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/edinburgh-playhouse-edinburgh-scotland-23e8f053.html)

August 24, 2018 - Birmingham, England - Digbeth Arena
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/digbeth-arena-birmingham-england-43e8cbdb.html)

October 27, 2018 - Bangor, ME - Cross Insurance Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/cross-insurance-center-bangor-me-5b963374.html)

November 2, 2018 - Richmond, VA - Dominion Energy Center (Rescheduled from May 15)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/carpenter-theatre-at-dominion-energy-center-richmond-va-5b967f28.html)

November 3, 2018 - Bensalem, PA - XCite Center (Rescheduled from May 8 )
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/xcite-center-parx-casino-bensalem-pa-7b967634.html)

November 5, 2018 - Washington, DC - The Kennedy Center (Rescheduled from May 7)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/john-f-kennedy-center-for-the-performing-arts-washington-dc-53966351.html)

November 6, 2018 - Huntington, WV - Keith-Albee Performing Arts Center (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/keith-albee-theater-huntington-wv-396592b.html)

November 8, 2018 - Atlanta, GA - Fox Theatre (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/fox-theater-atlanta-ga-b9649ee.html)

November 9, 2018 - Augusta, GA - Bell Auditorium (Rescheduled from May 16)
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

November 10, 2018 - Clearwater, FL - Ruth Eckerd Hall (Rescheduled from May 18)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/ruth-eckerd-hall-clearwater-fl-6b97be22.html)

November 16, 2018 - Louisville, KY - Louisville Palace
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/louisville-palace-theatre-louisville-ky-53978779.html)

November 20, 2018 - Grand Rapids, MI - DeVos Performance Hall (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/devos-hall-grand-rapids-mi-4397dfcf.html)

November 21, 2018 - Toronto, ON - Sony Centre (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/sony-centre-for-the-performing-arts-toronto-on-canada-7b97d670.html)

November 23, 2018 - Ottawa, ON - TD Place
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/td-place-arena-ottawa-on-canada-2397c487.html)

November 25, 2018 - Windsor, ON - The Colosseum (Rescheduled from May 4)
(SETLIST - Unvailable)


"Beach Boys Christmas Album" Tour Dates:

November 28, 2018 - Minneapolis, MN - Orpheum Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/orpheum-theatre-minneapolis-mn-739722a9.html)

November 30, 2018 - Hammond, IN - Horseshoe Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/the-venue-at-the-horseshoe-casino-hammond-in-b970d8a.html)

December 1, 2018 - Northfield, OH - Hard Rock in Northfield Park
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/hard-rock-live-northfield-oh-39705cb.html)

December 3, 2018 - Pittsburgh, PA - Heinz Hall
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/heinz-hall-pittsburgh-pa-4397774f.html)

December 4, 2018 - Englewood, NJ - Bergen Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/bergen-performing-arts-center-englewood-nj-73976e4d.html)

December 5, 2018 - Westbury, NY - NYCB Theatre at Westbury
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/nycb-theatre-at-westbury-westbury-ny-2b97605e.html)

December 7, 2018 - Staten Island, NY - St. George Theatre
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

December 8, 2018 - Wallingford, CT - Toyota Oakdale Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/toyota-presents-the-oakdale-theatre-wallingford-ct-5b974bb4.html)

December 11, 2018 - Sarasota, FL - Van Wezel Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

December 12, 2018 - Hollywood, FL - Seminole Hard Rock Hotel
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/hard-rock-event-center-hollywood-fl-1b94a950.html)

December 14, 2018 - Dallas, TX - Majestic Theatre
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

December 15, 2018 - Austin, TX - ACL Live at The Moody Theater
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/acl-live-at-the-moody-theater-austin-tx-394955b.html)

December 16, 2018 - Midland, TX - Wagner Noel PAC
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

December 17, 2018 - San Antonio, TX, Tobin Center for the Performing Arts
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/tobin-center-for-the-performing-arts-heb-performance-hall-san-antonio-tx-43948ba3.html)

December 20, 2018 - Thousand Oaks, CA - Thousand Oaks Civic Arts Plaza
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/fred-kavli-theatre-thousand-oaks-ca-2b94f492.html)

December 21, 2018 - Cerritos, CA - Cerritos Center for the Performing Arts
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/cerritos-center-for-the-performing-arts-cerritos-ca-6b94f2ee.html)

December 22, 2018 - Santa Rosa, CA - Luther Burbank Center for the Arts
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/luther-burbank-center-for-the-arts-santa-rosa-ca-5b94eb2c.html)

December 23, 2018 - Reno, NV - Grand Sierra Resort
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/grand-sierra-resort-reno-nv-6b94e6fa.html)

*2019* tour dates can be found on this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.0.html

NOTE: May shows listed below have been postponed and haven't yet been rescheduled. Dates will be removed from the "May" list below and placed into their new dates as they are announced. As of July, it's unclear if any further dates will be rescheduled.


May 5, 2018 - Orillia, ON - Casino Rama Resort
May 10, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 11, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 12, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 19, 2018 - Viera, FL - Space Coast Daily Park
May 20, 2018 - Pompano Beach, FL - Pompano Beach Amphitheater

Symphony dates! I'd love to see Brian in that kind of setting. I hope these shows are a bit more inspired than the PS shows were.

Wow!!!  I am a Brian Wilson fan...at the very least.  Personally I don't truly believe that he can handle another long and demanding schedule of tour dates.  YES...the new album will have to be supported in some meaningful way and one would have to think that it'll be recorded and ready for release sometime within these next 6 months or so.  Maybe a package of 2 or 3 shows every other night in just ONE hand-picked city and taking place in special and entirely proper acoustically wonderful locations/venues.   These stops should be spread out between mid May and mid December.  That would work.   There needs to be real time off between tour stops...like maybe 9 or 10 days...thus limiting the showcasing of the new l.p. to as few as just 15 or 16 specific locations.

Brian's music is geared toward vocal performance.  If he is to participate in a qualitative and meaningful way he has to be allowed the time to keep his instrument in working order. Otherwise ... It's a disservice to the reason for taking the new album out for a ride let alone to the fans and to Brian D. Wilson himself.  He deserves at this point to only be showcased at his BEST.  Either that or just give him but a baton...and then...strike up the band.  Think that'd fly?  I don't.

The Pet Sounds 50th [and 51st] Anniversary Tour was a chance for all of us to come out and enjoy...and boisterously yell "THANK YOU Brian!!!"  But that's done now.  

Going forward I demand that Brian be presented with artistic dignity.  Don't 'Old Blue Eyes' him out the door.  He deserves FAR better than that.  So does his band.  So do we.

I think cutting down on the number of tour dates could do a lot of good for BW shows going forward.  Except for 2004 when he took Smile on the road and did 72 shows, he did no more than 50 shows a year when he returned to being a touring artist. 

I think Brian actually did fine in terms of stamina in the last few years of touring. I think he just got stick of singing PS.

I'm not saying he should do 100 shows in 2018. But I don't think his ability to do shows in 2018 would be likely to be terribly different from 2017, so I think the main thing should be to do something other than PS, which I think is what the plan has been all along.

As for doing a lighter schedule, it's logistically difficult (not impossible, just difficult) for most artists to have a large band but only do scattered dates through the year, or to schedule a tour where there's a night off every other night.

Guys like McCartney or Billy Joel can do short spurts of shows because they have big bank, play arenas and stadiums, and can keep their band on retainer.

Brian's touring operation can't afford to keep the band on retainer all year to do five shows per month all year. He'd probably have to have more fill-ins and rotating musicians than he already has with the Darian-Gary-Billy-Debbie rotation.

If he does less dates, it's unlikely he'll do short spurts of shows like every month all year. It's more likely we'd see something in the mode of some of his 2000s tour schedules, which were (very generally) a month or two and then plenty of time off. Maybe we'd see something like the Fall 2013 sort of tour schedule.

But the idea is to keep the tour schedule tight to minimize excessive off days that make the tour more expensive.

Ideally, we'd see something more involved than 2014 or 2006 where he literally just did a few random shows here and there, but something less excessive than 100 dates.

I guess what I'm failing to make clear here is that 'they' go out and do 1 city at a time.  There clearly are specific towns which can accommodate 2 or 3 consecutive shows at at time.  You really think it's just boredom?  I, on the other hand, think it was the taxing of his ability to keep on delivering the goods without proper breaks to re-energize and recharge his batteries ...and... hug his family.  I mean really...the guy is how old...and most of the songs he wrote were written for capable guys in their early to mid 20s to sing.  Many of those are tough songs to sing for anybody...regardless of age.  You have to have range and power and strength and stamina.

I doubt Brian's gonna settle back and write a bunch of duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh/Louie Louie songs for the Rock 'n' Roll album.  Trying to incorporate your thinking here H.J...If he/they can handle 3 cities back to back to back with 10 days off before heading out again...that's approximately [using a 2/3/2 formula per month...with 10 days off...] 56 shows over 8 months.  My suggestion would have been for up to 48 shows.  Sometimes less is more.  Either way I think we'd get a truer rendering of the music we love.  One thing Brian Wilson hasn't been...at least since 1965...is a machine.  Capitol may have demanded it.  We shouldn't.  [especially in 2018]

If the idea is to use the same basic touring model, but do blocks of three shows at one venue/city instead of three shows at three different venues/cities, then I suppose they *could* do that in select markets.

But I'm not sure how many markets, especially without the sales hook of a "Pet Sounds" show, could sustain a three-night stand in the same market.

Then there is also the issue, on the fan side of things, of how easy it would be to catch a Brian show if he narrows the markets he hits. To be clear, I'm not one of the "Mike's tour is awesome because he hits every fair and festival and cook-off within a five mile radius of where I live" sort of advocates. Part of being into a more prestige artist like Brian is that *sometimes* you've got to haul your carcass into "the city" to see him. But if you look at recent Brian schedules, he has done a pretty good amount of Midwest/south, etc. sort of "secondary markets." That's not happening in the "three night stand in large markets" model.

On the other hand, if the idea is instead to do whatever shows in whatever town, but then put in large (e.g. 10 day) breaks between runs of three cities/shows, then we're back to whether logistically that could work.

56 shows per year is *much cheaper* and easier to plan/schedule/rehearse/contract musicians if they do a straight 56-show tour over the span of three months or so, rather than spreading it out over eight months.

I don't want to downplay how rest can help most any artist, and certainly Brian. When I've caught shows after a day or two break rather than catching the third show in three nights, I do think the energy level is up usually. But I also think that Brian's clear antipathy in continuing to perform the entirety of "Pet Sounds" has been far more noticeable than his general dip in energy in previous years when he's had to do three or even four nights in a row. In other words, his third night in a row singing "Dance Dance Dance" has often still had more energy and enthusiasm than his performance of "You Still Believe In Me" after several days rest.

I honestly think it's quite possible that 2018 will be a very light year of touring (perhaps no actual full-on "tour" at all) due to, among other reasons, that he has saturated the market pretty well in the last two years. Frankly, I'm fine if he dials it back. One of the main reasons I did seeing him tour more rigorously is that it gives us a chance to see and hear Al who, for whatever reason, lost interest after "Beach Boys Family & Friends" was shot down in 1999 in every launching any significant number of his own live dates. Even with only a handful of leads per night, seeing Al (and Matt) with Brian's band has been more exciting than Al's random one-off gigs with Dean Torrence and the "Surf City All Stars." (No offence to those outfits; I would have seen Al and Dave and Dean if they had *ever* played a gig anywhere near me, and/or with any decent amount of publicity). 

I would prefer that Brian NOT tour in 2018.  That said...I just don't see how he can release a new album and not go out to support it.  LOTS of artists these days go to spend a week or 10 days at a resort or onboard a cruise ship and people/fans come to see them at/on THAT chosen locale.  It's being done.  I assume it's successful because it continues to be done.  I just think that there are certain artists who can pull this off at more destinations  than merely Vegas alone.  But perhaps the turnover there, in Nevada specifically, helps to make it work?  I dunno.

What I do know is that Brian will have to be 'on' and in key for the new album tour to make a real impact.  If he can't sing lead on the new songs then there isn't much of a point in doing it.  I doubt he'll be cut the same break this time around.   Why screw with his image and legacy?

Artists of Brian's era and stature often if not usually tie together and album and tour. But tours don't really support/push/sell albums much like they did in the olden days. If anything, it's the other way around for a lot of artists. The album is just a background promotional tool for a tour.

TV appearances can help push an album, and other promotional tools.

But by the time an actual tour gets going, the album attached to it has dropped off the charts (in cases where the album is out before or at the time of the tour's opening), and the tour is its own (and usually *the main*) revenue stream. Brian makes more off touring and VIP packages than he does off album sales for his solo stuff.

Doing a Vegas residency (which I think is relatively different from doing those "Oldies" cruises) would have been perfect for the BB reunion lineup, and it perhaps could work for Brian as well.

I think Brian might just be at another slight career crossroads. No BB reunion in sight. Other than a refurbished "Smile" tour, there isn't much of any touring "concept" to wrap a tour around that will sell a lot of extra tickets. He can still sell a core number of tickets, so some level of touring is always an option. So what does Brian do? Just another album/tour cycle? I'd prefer an album of new stuff to oldies R&R covers, but either way I would imagine he'll sing the stuff on any given album just fine, and then if he tours behind it he'll only do 2-4 songs from any new album.

I think it would be cool to see more concentrated, niche projects see realization. A boxed set of Brian's famous/infamous stuff, call it "The Bedroom Tapes" even if the moniker isn't terribly accurate, is where I think Brian could build up a lot of heavy interest. A boxed set of demos and curios, and wrapping a tour around *that* concept in some general sense, could be cool.

2018 ideally would perhaps see:

-Opening up of the BB archives (studio and live)
-A "Bedroom Tapes" boxed set to beef up interest in *Brian* on the indie scene again
-Separately or together with the "Bedroom Tapes" in some sort larger Brian boxed set, a full release of all the Paley stuff
-If Brian also wants to get an oldies R&R album out of his system, let him do that too. But get someone in there (Was, Thomas, someone) to finally get it done and out.
-A shorter, one-shot tour, perhaps in the fall, working in some new album stuff and more deep cuts, getting Al, Matt, and Blondie (if he's there) even more involved.

I've suggested this before, but how about a Christmas tour?

A short trek through the US from Nov 2018 - early Jan 2019 which sees Brian, Al, Blondie, and the band do a set heavy with tracks from both the BB & BW Christmas albums.   

Sadly, in my neck of the woods, Christmastime is really the only time you hear BB music on a regular basis on the radio.   

Granted, it doesn't have the ticket selling power of Pet Sounds (what in the BB universe really does?), but it's something a little out of the box. 

I wouldn't mind hearing a few XMas tracks from Brian and the band.

But a "Christmas" tour would essentially just be a regular show with 3-5 XMas songs sprinkled into the setlist. I don't think they'd bust out the entire '64 album, nor would they work in much from Brian's solo set.

Al was apparently some time back in the last decade planning to do a Christmas tour with Christoper Cross and Jim Messina, and it of course never materialized. I have no idea how far into planning it they were, but that would have been interesting.

If they wanted to, they could chose about a dozen Xmas songs between the BB/BW albums (maybe sneak something like Winter Symphony), and still have 20 or so songs in the setlist for other material.   

I missed seeing Little St Nick in person by about a week two years ago.  I saw Brian on the 2nd leg of the NPP Tour the Friday before Thanksgiving.   After Thanksgiving, they swapped our All Summer Long for Little Saint Nick for the encore.  While I appreciate the restraint of waiting until after Thanksgiving to play Christmas material, I'd love to hear some BB holiday songs live. 

He hasn't always waited until after Thanksgiving to do "Little Saint Nick." He did it on the second, 2005 *Summer* "Smile" tour!

(He was of course presumably sort of pre-promoting his XMas album, which came out in October of that year after the tour wrapped).

Go see M&B if they're around you during any December. You'll hear half the Xmas album.

I'd love to, but they don't tend to come to my neck of the woods in December.  They're coming to Maryland the weekend before Thanksgiving, but I'm out of town that weekend. 

Hey Jude, is the Rock and roll album supposed to be all covers?

From articles from this year, I assumed Brian was writing rock and roll songs like those of the 50's and 60's.

I'd like to see Brian do an album along the lines of the Beach Boys Party album.  He could pick 25 or 30 oldies/rock and roll songs that he likes, rehearse them a bit with his band, and then record them quickly, like the Party album.  Very informal, let the band have fun with it, and get the "rock and roll" album out of his system.  I'm sure Brian could have some fun doing some of the lesser-known Spector songs, and it would be great to hear him do songs he loves, without having to slave over them. 

Great idea mtaber! ;D

Brian might cover an oldie or 3...as he did way back in the day...but it is my understanding that a good portion of the R 'n' R l.p. is supposed to be new songs.  And harkening back to 2015...you're right Jude.  Brian didn't perform all that many songs from NPP did he?

Oh well.  It'll happen as it happens.  I just want him to be healthy...and as 'on the mark' as possible.

I was under the impression that they were supposed to be all covers and not new songs.

However much I like the idea of a stripped down Party! like album, I know that Brian does love his studio time tinkering and leading the band. I think that’s why I like NPP so much: you can listen to nearly any second of that album and you can hear at least 4 very different things going on deep in the recording. And I’d love to see that same attention to detail with a covers album.

My idea, which I’ve posted too many times before, is that Brian should make the classic covers album a “radio” show. Get some classic DJ to announce a couple songs every few songs, do an interview with Brian at some point. Start the album off with a classic radio jingle. But treat the whole thing like a classic radio show from the early 60s.

That being said, I would love anything, including an album done in the spirit of Party! just as long as we get another Brian studio album!

I will believe the R 'n' R album when I see it.
It's more likely that Brian will tour again in 2018 doing a greatest hits show.

Other than the Brian and Friends Show that was filmed in Vegas, I don't think more than four NPP were done on the NPP tour in '15.

When I saw him in Philly in June 2015, he did Runaway Dancer, The Right Time, Sail Away, and One Kind of Love.  When I saw the 2nd leg in Rockville, MD in November 2015, Runaway Dancer was (mercifully) dropped. 

Rab - the Carpenters did that same type thing on side two of their Then and Now album.

Considering the album (presumably) hasn't even happened yet, and that he's been talking about it for decades, I don't think there's any indication exactly *what* a resulting album would be. He has spoken at times about simply doing a R&R album, and I think at other times he has mentioned specific oldies artists. I don't think he has ever specifically said he would *write* new songs in that style. But he hasn't said anything to preclude that either.

At times, it has almost seemed like the two ideas are separate. One, to do a "covers" album of oldies, and the other to do a "Rock and Roll album" in a more general sense, which would presumably be Brian's version of "rocking", which doesn't really get much more hard-edged than something like "Marcella."

Covers of 50s tunes or new songs written *in that style* don't really interest me a great deal (though obviously one has to hear the result to know for sure).

The three things that sound more tantalizing to me are:

1. A new "Brian by himself" album. An album full of "Message Man" type tracks. Essentially, imagine the "Mike gets Brian alone in a room" scenario, just *without* Mike. This isn't likely to happen.

2. A boxed set/archival release of Brian demos, rare cuts, etc.

3. A "regular" new album simply full of new songs (which would likely include mining old songs as most albums have).

Pretty sure that Brian has spoken about the upcoming "rock 'n' roll" [not Rock] project with a degree of frequency.  He has also made mention of not having written anything for it "yet" but that was several months ago in one of about a dozen different interviews.  He also said that he plans to include some covers.  I think it became all covers mainly by virtue of on-line contributors imagining what song(s) he might wish to include on said rock 'n' roll album.

Yes...he's mentioned it many times through the relatively recent the past but the conversation has seemed far more to the point over these past 6-9 months.  Time will tell.  Brian is seemingly a different fella these days.  His confessionals [book/movie] seem to have further liberated him as did SMiLE, TLOS and NPP to varying degrees.

If he decides to hang up his spikes and put his glove and bat away now that the Pet Sounds season has concluded...I'd be alright with that as well.  If Brian wants to just sit back, take it easy, and watch Wheel of Fortune instead...s'all good.  Maybe, not unlike Johnny Carson, there's a song somewhere in all of that.

S'For Pat and Vanna
From Me and Lana.
The Healer Anna [Lee]
and My dog Banana
  
No rags to ruin.
Just my rockin' tune.
I'm over the moon
For Wheel of Fortune.

A, B, can't you see
With my TV
I'm gonna be
Pickin' the letter D.

Move over Mike
Hop on yer bike
I'm goin' for E
With my ol' pal Lee

Oh ya we're watchin'
{Watchin'}
Ya we're watchin'
{Watchin'}
Wheeeeeeel of Fortune.

Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

How would it be graceful if it's already embarrassing?

Oh yeah, that's right, it's another troll post with no actual internal logic.

No it isn't...'cept for YOUR 'contribution'.  Well done.  You da 'man'.

Said the same thing back on the Egi Board.....15 years ago!

Unless Brian is doing a full album show, he does very few cuts from solo albums.

BW 88
Love and Mercy
Melt Away
Let it Shine (a handful of times)

Imagination
Your Imagination
Lay Down Burden
South American

GIOMH
Title Track (a couple of times)
HCWSBD (ditto)
Soul Searchin
City Blues
Desert Drive

Lucky Old Sun
Aside from full album shows ...
MAD
Goin Home
Southern California

I don’t think any tracks from the Gershwin record were performed aside from the full album shows, and none of the Disney songs were performed.

Wirestone is 100% correct; like most artists with a huge catalog of hits, Brian rarely digs into the back catalog and even when promoting a new album, only does a few cuts, which are usually mostly or all out the door by the next year/tour.

This pattern goes back to the 70s/80s with the Beach Boys. Albums like KTSA and BB '85 had a bunch of songs pulled for live performances, but they were mostly dropped very quickly.

We can, though, add "Melt Away" to the list of songs from BW '88, as it was done on occasion on a tour or two back in the previous decade.

It's a particularly rare occurrence for Brian to perform a solo song from *several albums ago.* He did "Let It Shine" in 2000, but even then it was to promote the then-new CD reissue of BW '88.

He did "Your Imagination" at a few mid-2013 shows; that was one of the only examples of this.

As I've often said, "Brian Wilson" concerts are not really concerts showcasing Brian Wilson's solo studio career. Nor are they de facto "Beach Boys" shows, though with Matt and Al (and Blondie) there, it veers closer to that. But it's a showcase of Brian the songwriter more than anything. Brian skips "Kokomo." Mike doesn't skip "Surfer Girl."

Granted, this format should leave *more* leeway for Brian to do solo stuff. But you know what? He's performed *multiple* full solo album projects in concert. Proportionately, he has probably aired *more* solo material than any other artist of a similar nature in terms of going decades in a famous band and only *then* starting a true solo career.

Man, I’ve responded to you countless times in your time here, and I’ve never once gotten a response. When you grow the balls to actually reply to people who challenge your rather pitiful and moronic opinions I really hope you put a little more thought into it than you do with these drive-by potshots.

Also, the more you troll here the more likely leadership is going to ban your ass...and it would be a shame for you to have to find a new proxy through your VPN to scatter these jackass posts here. Might I suggest you either join the conversation instead of lobbing these petulant posts and ignoring the responses. Or just stick with posting your dbag opinion on the PS Forum.

What’s that boom gif guitarfool posted? >:D

This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

The horror........the horror.........

There are certain elements of the recording ethos of "15 Big Ones" that I wouldn't mind hearing in a future project.

I'd rather hear something like his 2007 "I'm Into Something Good" (rather 15 Big Ones-esque), something with a bit of quirk to it, than straight kind of workman-like covers.

From a recent interview.. http://www.jambands.com/features/2017/09/15/brian-wilson-s-enduring-pet-sounds/


Would you consider that a peak?
In 1976 we recorded the 15 Big Ones album. That was the highlight. That was my favorite album and the highlight of my trip. I like the lyrics and the vocals.

If 15 big ones got a remix, people would understand why BW loves it. It’s pure BW in 1976! :bw

Is it just me or is that the nicest thing Brian's said about Mike since C50 ended?  Of course he had a reason to be extremely upset, but interesting because he said in 2015, I think, that he didn't want to do another BB tour.

Sounds like some competition, if Mike's doing it Brian's going to keep doing it.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5CHAJMbkRpk/hqdefault.jpg)

Boom! Understand?  ;D

Not the gif/loop...I made that meself...

Remember: Barba non facit philosophum.

Or in that case... "Barba non facit aliam historici"

Brian has complimented Mike in interviews numerous times since C50 ended. I don't think Brian has really said anything negative about Mike. Brian has said in more recent years he doesn't see doing another BB tour/project, but he has never gone negative on Mike and has praised him on numerous occasions much more directly than the above 15BO comment. 
 
2013 "Rock Cellar" interview with Brian:

Well, Mike had music ideas besides lyrics. So he helped me out with the music and his lyrics were really really creative. Some of my favorite Mike lyrics are California Girls, Good Vibrations and Do it Again was another great one that we wrote. I also like Warmth of the Sun. that was a very sweet and sorrowful song.

2016 "Harvard Business Review" interview with Brian:

Mike Love wrote great lyrics, very fast, and I liked that in those days.

These are just two examples, but there are many similar comments from Brian in interviews post-C50. There was even one interview where Brian was particularly complimentary of Mike and it worked so well that Mike posted the interview link on his Facebook page and, as I recall, seemed to be happy to have his ego stroked and said something like "Thanks Bri, right back at ya!"; something along those lines. I remember finding it amusing that in order to stop getting Mike to go negative, it required such a heavy ego stroke.

I guess I haven't read that many interviews with Brian.   :)

Thanks Hey Jude.  Somewhat interesting to say the least. 

All I'll add is this: I offered a challenge on this board when the bullshit was getting *really* deep a few years ago for anyone to find and post a recent or even modern example of a negative comment Brian has made about Mike Love. Just one. To this present day, I don't believe anyone has stepped forward with one.

THAT says all you need to know. Then look at what has been said by Mike over the past several years. Case closed.

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.

I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it.

And a lot of the bullshit also came after I had been standing feet away from Brian at his keyboard when he introduced "I Get Around" by saying his cousin Mike sang it well, and hopefully he could do as good a job on the vocal as Mike did. So that's yet another unpublished example of praise I heard firsthand among everything else.

Before I say this, I should say that I'm really not an audiophile, but I did listen to NPP a lot in the spring and early summer of 2015, and the voices all sounds pretty clear to me.  Especially when you compare them to TWGMTR and that C50 live album

Being pretty new to the forum, I'm still trying to figure out what happened at the end of C50.  I've heard bits and pieces and am therefore responding to the little I know.  I therefore said I could understand why Brian would attack Mike, even though he hasn't, and think that his compliments are very kind and surprising saying all that (I think/assume) happened during 2012-2013. 

And I really loved this comment, guitarfool2002: "I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it. "

 :lol

It entails something that is sometimes a slog, but I would recommend reading through old threads/posts on this board regarding C50. In particular, check out posts on the subject from Howie Edelson, who did a great job of putting things in perspective.

You'll also see that Brian has, probably both because of his inherent nature and also because he has better PR people, not gone negative on Mike at all in recent years. Even in his one arguably acrimonious piece, which was his letter to the LA Times in Sep/Oct 2012, he didn't attack Mike. I think he was expressing how he (and Al) felt, which was disappointment and frustration over Mike walking away.

C50 is a different (though at times intertwined) issue compared to the more broad issue of what Mike and Brian say about each other in interviews. And the sad fact is that Mike has regularly gone negative, and even his kind comments about Brian are often backhanded or involve complimenting himself via complimenting Brian.

However much they did or didn't reveal about things like C50 in their respective autobiographies, the style and tone of each book provides a pretty good insight into their attitude. Mike is ready to go through a litany of reasons he was wronged. He's on the defensive and trying to pounce. Whereas, Brian is more like "meh, that's how Mike is, whatever..."

The only perspective really necessary in my opinion is the unfiltered truth of how C50 ended. Mike pulled the plug when the demand from fans and the industry in general was as high as it's been for anything - and I repeat *anything* new from "The Beach Boys" in decades. Mike booked a show at a venue called "Nutty Jerry's" that led to Nutty Jerry's canceling the booking because they and their local ticket buyers were confused as to which Beach Boys lineup they were going to be presenting. When the confusion became clear that it was Mike's band and not the Beach Boys who were still on the road for C50, they backed out. And in subsequent press releases and statements, there was still confusion as to what happened. And for the talk of Mike booking other shows for his band, I've raised the point before that all which was on the books when C50 was ongoing was a random show in South America, as well as a charity show at a California country club or winery which was done almost immediately after Mike and Bruce flew back from the final UK C50 shows, Stamos joined them, and there were comments from audience members that they thought they would be seeing the full C50 lineup and got instead Mike's lineup.

And the perspective too comes from the press releases in the wake of Mike's announcement around the Grammy event, where Mike or his PR staff gave at least one or several reasons to the press that soon were replaced by other reasons, and when Mike's book came around even more reasons beyond that. Mike's initial release mentioned The Eagles and not wanting to overstay their welcome to where tickets would be selling for 5 bucks like Eagles tickets, which led to a pretty bitter reply from The Eagles' camp.

It was a mess.

From fans' perspectives, the band was back together with all surviving original members from the 60's including Bruce, and Mike instead chose to return to his Mike-and-Bruce lineup after Brian, Al, and David said they wanted to extend the touring because they were enjoying it...and also wanted to make more new music. But Mike chose not to. Despite the concert booking industry calling for more shows after the tour exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations and was a big draw with high demand. The album went top 5 too.

Mike claimed the tour was losing money in his book. And he gave an interview where he slagged off on the album despite it cracking not just the top 100 but the top 5 on the charts.

The Wilsons gave a dinner party to celebrate the last UK shows at a restaurant for all the band members and crew. Mike's band was there, Brian's band, Al, David, wives, friends, people from the behind the scenes staff and crew...

...and Mike and Bruce didn't show up. The picture of that dinner with everyone breaking bread and celebrating minus Mike and Bruce is a true example of "a picture is worth a thousand words".

So there it was. And maybe that picture of that specific moment is enough perspective to last a lifetime.

And in terms of this particular forum's perspective as well as all of those related including those which have since died on the vine, the fans were behind C50 almost 100% and were happy to see the guys back together playing live AND with a new album. After Mike's decision, the forums turned into what felt like an attempt in some circles to reverse all the negative publicity and opinion directed at Mike, and there were blatant if not laughable attempts to whitewash or rewrite history and fact by offering talking points like "set end date" and trying to shut down any discussion if it turned the spotlight on Mike's decision.

Then it got fun. The defense of Mike and attempts to deflect the negativity turned into attempts to trash the Wilsons, and Brian regarding any new offering or tour he was putting out. When that failed, the attempts turned toward controlling the forums by bullying posters who dared say something about Mike that was less than a toe'ing of the line (whoever determined that line), up to sending messages off the board which led to several leaving.

Maybe the nadir was when an interview with Mike came out, he was quoted in his own words, and I guess short of being able to defend what the man actually said the defense (and defenders) suggested Mike had been misquoted. Or that we didn't take his words as he meant them. Or that some other totally ridiculous reason was in play versus what the guy actually said.

So...that was that. If anything C50 brought people together, and whatever attempts were undertaken by Mike's more loyal and vocal defenders and fans to whitewash and help do damage control in the wake of C50 ended up causing a lot of outright hate to come to these places and infect them. C50 wasn't the starting point, as other grudges and agendas were already in place, but it brought it into the fan discussion realm and basically blew it to bits.

If I never see nor hear the phrase "set end date" for the rest of my life on this planet, it wouldn't be long enough.

C50 was positive for everyone except, it would seem, Mike Love. And it was his call which led to him getting exactly what he wanted. He's currently leading his band still touring incessantly and releasing autotuned BB's remakes with Mark McGrath. And his most insufferable fans and mouthpieces and defenders are still doing their same routines. Fun stuff!

Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 

If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.

This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...

If this "place" is so friggin' toxic (which it certainly is NOT), then why the hell are you here??

GF - everything you said on this thread is clear and accurate.  Re:  the recurring troll/trolls, as a writer, I keep finding the same one-note, hateful little voice with a lot of IP addresses.  Happily, it no longer annoys me.  It's just boring.  Little loser/s begging for attention.  Ignoring them is the best approach, I think.  No one actually cares what they think here, as far as I can tell.  I certainly don't.

Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
«Kid Presentable  Reply #52 on: Today at 01:33:24 AM »
   
"This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time."

1:33:24 AM?  What happened?  You get kicked out of bed?  Not my problem.  Sad to see that YOU'RE 'Love-less' too.  Small world.  Wheel and come again with your next 'presentation'.  Quote 'Mike'.  I did.

Not so sure about that.  Dirty Mickey keeps signing contracts which all have to be honoured.  I'll bet he's got em signed into 2019 already.  AND...it's income.  They don't have to like him to benefit from him financially.  Maybe there's some 'nourishment and revenge' being re-directed right back at him.  Yo...Hat Boy.  You keep touring 'til you're at least 80.  Just keep sending the cheques.   In fact do 200 shows next year.  Oh and those shirts you wear?  Nifty. :lol

Unless you have a copy of the license at hand, I’d wager you don’t have a fucking clue on this subject.

Earlier threads have established that Mike’s license is essentially non-revocable, unless he gives the other BRI members some explicit cause to take it away.

Incredible to think that around 98 the parties signed a contract with a time period of 20 years and counting. At the time I seriously doubt anyone thought this train would still be rolling.

That's a nice creepy reply, add some, good for you.  What makes you think I live anywhere near Pacific Standard Time?
To the others, I had a long reply typed up but decided that I don't want to put the energy into what will just be hijacking this thread.  If you actually care to read why I think this place is super toxic you can tell me where to take the discussion instead. 
I expect to see more replies from what I assume are otherwise reliable democrats, giving me some form of the 'Murica Love It Or Leave It argument.

Pretty much.

I think the best way to put it is that it would be hugely impractical to try to revoke the license. The move *could* be made, but it would be tied up in litigation for the rest of their lives, certainly the rest of their feasible touring life (even assuming they all can tour into their 80s). And that "move" would be hard to muster the support for.

Setting aside the "they don't want to kick the hornet's nest" factor (which is maybe above all else why nothing has or would ever happen in terms of trying to revoke the license), what other factors are at play?

On the front end of things, are the votes there? Carl's estate (which I've been led to believe means mainly Jonah and Justyn in terms of who makes the calls/votes, etc.) has almost *never* sided against Mike on any issue as far as I know. And it makes sense; they have no personal stake in things. They're not potentially in or out of the band. With the touring license, it's a choice between being cut a nice free check, or no check. There are other internal BRI issues that would involve more long-term artistic/longevity/branding decisions (e.g. firing up a huge archival program). But when it comes to the touring license, it's easy free money for them.

I don't think Brian (or even Al) want to use the BB name themselves, so that takes away motivation right there on their part.

What's left? Taking away the license just to "make a point" would be about it, and Mike could make the argument (both practically and maybe even legally using legal theories including "laches") that he's been left to own devices using the name for almost 20 years and they don't have any justification to change things.

It may not be so much that they gave Mike a literally "irrevocable" license (they'd have to have *horrible* lawyers to not have put in riders covering extreme things like Mike being convicted of a crime, etc.). But it may be that even if they gathered the 3 votes to take it away, Mike could sue BRI and argue that they're all voting against the *corporation's* best interests. And financially that would sadly be true, as there would be no "replacement" if Mike's band were pulled off the market.

The only exception to all of that would be to pull the license to essentially force a reunion, and I don't think anybody feels that's a good idea.

But yes, we need to dispel the hugely inaccurate assertion that Brian or Al (or both collectively, or even both along with Carl's estate) could "easily" revoke Mike's license.

As things stand now, I think Brian and Al both tolerate it and prefer it only to the alternative of paying a ton of money to litigate it.

Unfortunately, almost everything is at least somewhat toxic these days. I hope and pray it will all pass.

Ya...It was kind of weak.  That's all I had.  Sorry.  But then you didn't offer up much to begin with...now did you?  If you bothered to do any reading or research you would know that 'he' only reaps what he's sewn.  Grim ain't it?

At least these comments keep threads going.  I think it's safe to say that anyone who knows what happens when the BB's vote, or the last time they actually voted on anything or why, is only known by a few people, and they're not about to talk.  "Easily revoked licence?"  That's pretty funny - that much is obvious from past comments and events - whether any of them still care? We don't know at this point.  Brian, Al and Blondie, when they wish to tour, obviously do very well, and they don't need the BB's license, just Brian's name.

BRI License stuff aside I doubt anyone considered Brian (or any of the Beach Boys for that matter) would still be touring in 2017/2018, considering its almost been 2 whole decades since the loss of Carl and a whopping 34 years since Dennis died. :o

Let's be honest though, as long as we get new Brian Wilson music that's all that matters at this point. Sure, I miss Mike and Bruce in the harmony stack, (but much prefer Matt's falsetto to Jeff) but Mike has been creatively spent for years regardless.

I've seen Brian five times since 2010, and new music is all I desire at this point (with or without Mike or Bruce) As long as Brian's in a good and creative place, all is good.

Ya know there is a famous interview with DW back in 70"s that he said the BB will be touring when we get old and in wheel chairs..!!  the previous post reminded me of that interview.. LOL

New music? Really? Most fans just want the same old songs from decades ago at this point.

Casual fans and non-fans with a passing interest may only be interested in the same old songs.

But the hardcore fan base and indie crowd, which comprises a good hunk of Brian's audience (not so much Mike's), *are* interested in new music from Brian as well as old deep cuts and the release of interesting archival material.

Regarding how long the BBs at various points in their history anticipated continuing to tour, I like to occasionally remind folks of what Elliott Lott claimed regarding Mike back in 1999:

“Mike has maybe five years of touring left"

Here's the full article: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25340.0.html

Now, I think it's pretty clear Lott was saying this primarily to bolster his argument that Al touring in 1999 was somehow taking away a very finite amount of touring revenue that Mike was generating. I personally don't buy that Lott really thought Mike was going to be retired by 2004. But it's interesting to note that they probably didn't see the longevity of all of these guys touring into 2017.

Also, here's Mike from a 1993 interview:

Within the next five years I think I'll be doing something else. As a matter of fact a TM guru told me recently that I was destined to start a big world TM center in Northern California and that my true vocation in life was that. He said the band was just a prelude to my spiritual destiny, my life as a teacher of TM.

So in 1993 Mike envisioned possibly being done with touring by 1998.

Not to digress too much, but let us also not forget Mike's comments in 1992 regarding the idea of writing an autobiography:

So I guess there's no chance for a book?

Who would want to take the fucking time to go through garbage like that just to rectify garbage.

Goldmine is the greatest Mike interview :lol

The Mike quote about doing something different is interesting. I think when Mike started to get more control around the time of Carl's illness and eventually full control, that may have changed his mind about touring since it was on his terms now.

Yeah, things may have worked out differently if Carl was still alive and Al couldn't be kicked out of the band.

Dove Nested Towers, thanks for the best post in this thread thus far.

Had a couple of beers earlier this evening, (including the outstanding Four Peaks Kilt Lifter), at  the SD Gulls vs the Sacramento ice hockey game, and decided to check this thread, for the first time, when I got home. After reading for awhile I realized I needed some libations to get me through the rest of the thread, with the result that I'm now on my third Manhattan. (For those into the finer aspects of those libations, all included a mix of either Jack Daniels Old No. 7, Jack Daniels Rye, or a combo of the two, along with Carpano Antiqua Formula Vermouth and Martini & Rossi Rosso Vermouth, with both Angustora Bitters and Angustora Orange Bitters, and with with either Amarena Toschi Black Cherries or Luxardo Maraschino Cherries.)

But back to this thread - I've been a fan of the BBs (although to a somewhat minor extent initially) since I first head Surin' on the radio in late 1961. So Dove Nested Towers post of, "Unfortunately, almost everything is at least somewhat toxic these days. I hope and pray it will all pass." most accurately expresses my sentiments.

As BW said, we could all use some Love and Mercy today. (And/or tonight, as the case may be.)

Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.

That would be great! I'd love to attend! Hopefully, they'd include a few songs from Brian's Christmas album, as well.

If true, I would hope they get it going and tickets on sale soon. There have been a few instances in past years when tickets went on sale for a show on very short notice, soon after a previous tour had ended, where tickets didn't move very fast.

I'd also wonder if they'd really be doing the entire BB Christmas album front-to-back as opposed to selections. That would certainly be intriguing.

I'm excited to see Brian tackle a full non-PS show with the same zeal he has seemed to have lately on the opening set of shows. The BB XMas album also has a good amount of leads that would be in Brian's range. It would be fun to see him energetically sing "Santa's Beard" and stuff like that.

I quite like Brian's arrangement of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen." But if they actually did the full BB Xmas album (a lot of ifs going on here of course), that would probably suffice for XMas content in the show.

Now, the big question is, would Al replicate his weird voice as heard on the original '77 version of "Bells of Christmas."  :3d

For this upcoming Christmas season??   That would be really cool, but I was hoping for a Nov-Dec 2018 Xmas Tour. 

Meh, who knows where Brian, or Al, or any of us will be a year from now. If Brian has the enthusiasm to tour behind it right now, I say go for it. If it's successful, they can always do it again next year.

Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

Yeah, that's why I settled for "a few", at most. But if it's billed as a "Holiday Show" they could get away with mixing a song or two into the non-Christmas album set (or the Christmas album set, for that matter). I'd be glad to hear just about any of those songs, including the bonus track, On Christmas Day. I'd miss Taylor's vocals in the blend on that material, though. One song I wouldn't be as excited about is Deck The Halls...I wonder if they'd feel somewhat obligated to perform that one since it was released as a single and was a top 10 AC hit. I suppose not. Who knows?


Or maybe a Child-of-Winter-Brian sighting? He could incorporate it into a song of his choosing  ;D


Why wait? But, yeah, I'd be glad whenever it happened. If it happens.

I recall maybe at least a small portion of why Brian's XMas album was lowkey in terms of performance was that it, if I'm recalling correctly, got caught up in Sony's huge case of biffing it with that "rootkit" issue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

I'm not even 100% sure if anyone determined for sure that Brian's CD was impacted as some others were. But that whole ordeal certainly didn't help the album, that's for sure.

I'd love to see it either way, this coming Christmas season is bad for me schedule wise.   :(

I've heard a couple tracks from it on one of my Christmas Pandora channels, but never on the FM Christmas station here.   I agree 100% it's an overlooked Christmas classic. 

I'd at least like to see it put back on the shelves each year to sit at Walmart and Target alongside the classic Xmas albums by Bing, Elvis, Sinatra, TSO, and various comps for $5-$7 a pop.   Considering the renewed interest in BW since the release, I'm sure it would make an easy impulse buy "Brian Wilson put out a Christmas album?   And he does Oh Holy Night and God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman? "

I don't remember that rootkit controversy being much of a factor or an issue with the album's sales at least if fan discussions were any gauge, but I do remember there were a lot of pretty blatant attempts among trolls and the like to slag off on the album, to the point where if my memory serves, Brian posted an exclusive Christmas audio track, some started making idiotic comments, and Brian got truly pissed off to the point where he posted a reply to them in no uncertain terms. And when it got into people slamming the cover as "clip art" and saying it wasn't rock-and-roll enough for Brian, it turned out to be among the usual rabble-rousers of the sort who have been saying Brian should throw in the towel and retire from playing shows and making music since 1999 or so. But, of course, make sure to go see Mike's band... ;D

I recall hearing a few of the "new" Xmas songs (e.g. the title track) from Brian's XMas album in past years at drug stores and places like that. It has often played right alongside Carnie and Wendy's "Hey Santa."

Exactly! All it would take would be a little push and some old-fashioned record plugging to get this back onto the shelves and into some playlists. I agree, those bins of Christmas albums at the retail stores are a great way to get some classic Christmas music, in fact that's where I got my treasured "Ventures Christmas Album" CD for something like 4.99 many years ago...among others.

I like that idea, whatever it takes to get people to listen to this music is fair game, it just has to be put into motion from the top.

Oddly enough, in recent years, I haven't even seen the Beach Boys Christmas album in the Christmas CD bins (although, one of those knockoffs with like 8-9 tracks from it are often there). 

But, heck, if Twisted Sister can have a Christmas album that shifts a bunch of copies, there's no reason Brian Wilson can't.

I want a BW Christmas show in my area! :afro

I'd make it a point to try to go to a BW Christmas show! I've never had a chance to see him play any of the Christmas tunes live, if they did a full set that would be amazing.

Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.

I'll have to listen for it this year, but I think the FM Christmas music channel in Baltimore still pays the single version of Little St Nick, but unfortunately, they seem to play far fewer tracks from the BB Xmas than they used to.   In the past it wasn't uncommon to hear just about any of the original songs or Frosty the Snowman.  Now, I only hear Little St Nick and Frosty. 

The programming of these playlists can be a mystery. In Philly last year both the Oldies station and the all-Christmas FM station seemed to be spinning the lesser album mix, yet we were still getting at least 4 other tracks from the Christmas album (one was even using Man With All The Toys as a bumper/promo spot), and also playing The Wilsons (which is another Christmas album that grows better with age).

Frustrating too is how they jump on trends, like "All I Want For Christmas Is You". The original Mariah Carey cut was a stone-cold classic, as good as a tribute to the Spector holiday album's sound as anything I've heard never mind that it was a commercial hit. Yet they replaced that great track with one where Justin Beiber added new vocals with Mariah that were the same effect as putting ketchup and French's yellow mustard on top of a perfect cut of filet mignon, done medium rare. It adds nothing to the original and is ultimately fatuous. Yet, there's Beiber wailing "oohhhh, oh, ohhh, ohhhhh" instead of the fantastic original.

Right, kinda Carrie Underwood's Do You Hear What I Hear, which I think is a poor man's version of the Whitney Houston cover, which replaced the definitive (IMO) Bing Crosby version.   

One of the reasons that, in recent years, I've been sticking to my Xmas CD collection which includes a lot of spins of BW, TSO, The Beach Boys, and Blackmore's Night. 

FWIW, there were a few shows in Australia where they did a Gershwin mini-set -- four songs IIRC, but I can only specifically remember "Rhapsody" (*breathtaking* with the full band acapella) and "They Can't Take That Away From Me".  I think they did a few other shows with those up over!

Far as I'm aware, he's never done the Disney album.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I would absolutely love to see a BW Christmas concert. I see Brian and band, as well as the touring BBs, whenever I get the chance. As much as I love Pet Sounds, and was ecstatic when I first saw Brian play the album in it's entirety years ago, I actually got tired of hearing the entire PS album the last couple times I saw BW in concert, and I had the impression that Brian was rather tired of performing the entire album as well.


Absolutely! The single version of Little Saint Nick with the chimes, mallets, and sleigh bells is far better than the album version.

I've got six different Beach Boys Christmas CDs. Of those six CDs, Little St. Nick is found in its mono single version on four, the stereo album version on two, and a stereo version of the original single on two. But my favorite mix of the Little St. Nick single version is not found on any Beach Boys CD releases, appearing only on the 1992 EMI CD Legends of Christmas Past, which was the first time the single version appeared in stereo. The 1992 stereo version of the single was remastered by Kevin Reeves and features the vocals in stereo, whereas the 1998 stereo version of the single (on Ultimate Christmas and Christmas with the Beach Boys) features the vocals in mono.

(And for the sake of completeness I'll add that two of these six CDs, Ultimate Christmas and Christmas with the BBs are virtually identical, with one less track on the latter CD. Then there's The Beach Boys Christmas Album with and without bonus tracks, and a budget release of same missing two tracks. And I've got two versions of Christmas Harmonies, with the original white cover and the later light green cover. A couple of years ago I also purchased The Beach Boys' Christmas Album - Cardboard Sleeve - High-Definition Deluxe Replica, Collector's Edition, Limited Edition, Import, Remastered. It looked very cool, containing a red CD with a small Capitol rainbow label, but there was no way it was a "High Definition Deluxe Replica" -  instead it was an overmodulated distorted mess, which I returned to Amazon.)

...Well, all I'm going to say is, postings like this -- and the next half dozen or so variations on "How dare you say this place is toxic!  F*** off!" -- don't give me much of a sense that the place has really chilled out, and that's why I check in so rarely these days.

Sorry,
Jon Blum

Accentuate the positive like me :3d, then ANY place will stop being toxic. :police:

Me too! I doubt it would happen in that short space of time, but I would consider traveling stateside for this depending on the date and location.

Sorry to hear you feel that way Jon, I just hope you've considered and heard all sides and understand exactly what happened prior to forming those opinions and posting them. All of it is archived.

Agreed.

Adding my thoughts on the matter. After being accused of being somebody I wasn't from AGD, GF and Billy were most fair in keeping me from being scrubbed from the board.

The agdster, the former SS resident expert at Unleashing the Lies.

Me, too - along with a video maybe, if it's a limited event, or happens at all.

Cant imagine the Xmas tour happening unless its announced within the next week or so...wonder how old the info is about him shopping an xmas tour is?

This would have to be announced sometime early next week if they want to have time to sell tickets on these. I don't see it happening, but crazier things certainly have come through.

I read it as a tour for next year.

Let the man rest.

I hope he does. I don't know what markets they would have left to do this in unless it was truly just one concert in LA or NYC that could be filmed. I'd be down with that. But he doesn't need anymore stress on the road this year.

Considering Christmas Tours are usually announced during the summer months, I'd be pretty surprised if a 2017 Christmas Tour materializes.  But, if it's on the table for 2018, I'm there. 

I saw the agent's email  to a buddy of mine who books/manages a venue in a major mid-west city and it was dated the second week of October.

Thank for clarifying. That's still great news!!! I hope it materializes. However, that leads me to believe there would not be many other performances in 2018, if they are still concerned about which markets Pet Sounds hit. That seems like a silly thing to be concerned with anyway, considering that at least 50% of this show will be new material since Pet Sounds will be dropped and the Christmas album will be added in.

Maybe he will be touring the R&R album next year?  ;)

Yes, wouldn't that be great? I am actually glad the holiday tour is next year. Brian needs the time now to rest, write and record (if he wants to).

Brian's twitter announced the shows in Nashville yesterday and there was a link to the website, which states that "2018 tour dates are being announced" and "Stay tuned as more dates are added".

Woohoo!

This might be slightly off-topic, but is Brian losing what's left of his range?...or does he always sound like that at the end of a tour?  I saw the New Bedford show and his voice seemed weaker than I expected?  Before that, the latest videos/recordings I had heard were from the C50 live album. 

Nah, Brian just is a mood-kind of singer. During last year and this year I've heard him sing super strong and beautiful with a great voice and in the same shows very weak-dylan-talk-like. It just depends on the songs and days. I think he has a lot better voice than most people in his age. He just uses it in weird ways sometimes.

Thanks RiC. I was worried this might be the beginning of the end. Good to know that's not the case.

So I just saw on FB that the May 2018 shows in Nashville will be Pet Sounds shows.  And on the tour page on bw.com, the headline is "2018 Pet Sounds Tour".  
Really?
Isn't it a little cray to do the same show for going on three years now?  And it's not like the Nashville market hasn't had a PS show - I saw him perform PS at the Ryman Auditorium in September 2016.  And while I have never seen a bad Brian show, in Rosemont last month, he was definitely more into the Wild Honey set than PS.  
I mean, I'm still going to see Brian if he comes my way.  And it's an embarrassment of riches to be all like, "Pet Sounds, AGAIN??" when 20 years ago I never thought I would ever see Brian in concert.  But still...it would be nice to have a Smile tour again, or more Wild Honey, or the 1988 album (Rio Grande, anyone? :)

Especially since such a big deal was made about the final performance of Pet Sounds in September. 

It's quite obvious that "Pet Sounds" shows get better (and more) bookings, and even another year of PS shows would probably sell more tickets to the masses than a "regular" tour. So the problem (outside of our own personal preferences) with doing more PS show isn't that people aren't interested in it.

The potential problem is that Brian is clearly tired of singing the PS stuff. Maybe with six or seven months off, Brian might have some renewed enthusiasm for the songs. But the contrast between the first and second sets at his shows has become more and more pronounced over the last two years.

I don't think they need to do another "themed" tour as far as performing a full album. It would be nice to tie a tour to *something.* If not a new studio album, then perhaps a set of his demo and outtakes or something.

But I am a bit stunned they're booking more PS shows. Now, the three Nashville shows were booked MANY months ago, and it makes sense to do PS when there's a full orchestra.

So it's not impossible that he's doing those shows (and maybe a few others) as PS shows, but other non-PS shows may follow. But if he's just going to churn out another 50+ PS shows in 2018, then I don't see him not continuing to show a clear lack of enthusiasm for singing them. And yes, they will lose some hardcore fans who either don't want to see the lack of energy during PS, or don't want to pony up the money to see the same show he's been doing for 2-3 years, with Al and Blondie's songs barely changing either. But PS sells tickets, which is the only reason promoters are clearly still knocking asking to book more shows. Normally I wouldn't even find that to be a problem. If Brian and Al and everybody were younger and had 10-15 or more years of touring left, then even five years solid of PS wouldn't be problematic. But we're all getting older here, so I'd like to see something different sooner rather than later.

So does this mean he won't be touring behind a new album in 2018? Or is the new album going to be "Pet Sounds Live - Again"?

Most legacy artists aren't changing up their sets radically, anyway. A lot of 60s artists have been doing essentially the same shows for 20 years. My issue is the branding of this tour as the "final performances" starting two years ago. I've seen the "final performance of Pet Sounds" in an hour and a half radius of my home five times now! I'd actually love to see it again (more Pet Sounds songs generally mean less surf and car songs, which are not what I enjoy hearing at BW shows) (and also, Pet Sounds is my favorite album of all time, even if Brian croons it like Tony Bennett), but the branding should never have been that, especially this year, if they hand an inkling they'd book even more dates.

Whoever was behind the ‘final’ wording in the marketing must be regretting it now.

Ugh.  ::)

I doubt it.  "Final" pushes people to buy tickets - it's a marketing thing.  There was probably never any intention to retire PS forever.  Remember that "final" was also used for PS performances in 2006. 

I'm far less concerned with how previous PS shows/tours have been billed as far as being "final" shows, etc., than I am with Brian's clear apathy towards doing the PS songs.

We established long ago that there's always the chance of more PS shows. People complained in *2013* when Brian randomly did the full PS at a couple of gigs that they were going back on the advertising from the 2006/2007 shows in terms of being "final" shows.

Given how upbeat Brian was during even the longest tour stretches this year for the non-PS stuff, and how clearly bored he is of PS, I figured they had to move on to something else this year.

Which they may still do; I'm not convinced they're going to build another 75-date PS tour around those Nashville shows.

2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances

Proving that by 2013 anybody previously aware of this phenomenon had nobody but themselves to blame if they thought that subsequent tours would definitively be the final performances.

This was actually established in *2007*; some folks may have forgotten that they did some November 2006 PS dates, and then booked three west coast shows in January 2007. I vaguely recall people complaining back in late 2006 when the three additional January 2007 dates were announced.

I never make any assumptions about what might be the final shows of this or that. I'm sure some of us remember buying tickets for Brian's first tour in 1999. Many of us bought the tickets in part because we figured there was a good chance this would be the *one and only* chance to ever see him.

I would be fine with more PS shows, regardless of how previous tours were billed, if Brian was into singing the songs.

I wager these could be the only Pet Sounds shows in 2018. These three Nashville Symphony dates have been scheduled for about a year. They probably requested the Pet Sounds material as this was booked in the middle of the Pet Sounds tour. I would prefer Brian be touring something else, but I don't have a major issue with it. I have tickets to two of the shows. LOL

I am sure the album performed with an orchestra behind it will be amazing. 

In a better world, Brian could do a Wild Honey show, or Sunflower, or even Beach Boys Today....but the general public doesn't even know those albums.
I'm surprised, though, that Mike and Bruce aren't doing an Endless Summer show.

I wrote in length on the PSF that there are several BB albums that come very close being classic albums, not just classic BB albums, if not for a song selection or two.   (ie. Putting the talk track on Today). 

I've said it before; Brian is unlikely to tour a full album outside of PS or "Smile", and even less likely to venture outside of the 60s where other members wrote and sang their own stuff.

I just don't see Brian (even with a backing guy singing it) doing "Tears in the Morning."

"Wild Honey" seems more likely than others, as it's at least mostly Brian-penned material.

As I've already mentioned as well, I really don't need to see any more albums performed in full. A wide-ranging, interesting setlist is just fine.

I remember a year or two ago, he mentioned that he really liked Summer Days Summer Nights.   I think it would be more likely to see Brian do something like Today or SDSN than anything post 1967.   And even with those, it wouldn't likely be the entire albums.  Today would obviously cut Bull Session, and I'd think they'd still do the single arrangement of Rhonda.  For SDSN, I'd be shocked if Brian did Bugged at My Old Man. 

One more SMiLE tour would be the kicker. Outside of that, I don't see any "album" oriented tours surviving. They just don't have the flow or the hit-power.

Perhaps more insight into why they might be apt to book more "Pet Sounds" shows:

https://www.pollstar.com/article/stones-top-concert-pulse-brian-wilson-pj-masks-2-chainz-debut-133825

Brian is on the "Global Concert Pulse Chart" at #54:

Pollstar's Global Concert Pulse chart ranks tours by average gross over the last three months.

The legendary Brian Wilson spoke to Pollstar in January about the Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary World Tour, which ran from April to October and also played Europe. 

That was an extension of the tour that originally started in March of 2016 and played into December, taking in markets including Australia, Israel, Japan and Dubai to go along with a North American run.

Recent box office reported to Pollstar for the Wilson tour include Oct. 14 at the Pacific Amphitheatre at Costa Mesa, Calif., which sold 4,623 tickets and grossed $354,351, Sept. 23 at Radio City Music Hall (3,674, $324,197), and Aug. 3 at the Kelvingrove Bandstand and Amphitheatre in Glasgow, Scotland, which sold 2,250 and $117,522.

Wilson’s average gross on the Concert Pulse chart was $172,319, with ticket sales at 2,047 and an average ticket price of $84.17.

https://www.pollstar.com/concert-pulse

Wow! The Stones are number 1 with $10m. I’ll be Chicken Sh!t all day long for some of that.  :lol

Go to BW website.. 2018 is a PET SOUNDS tour.. I cant believe this..!!!!! I saw this 2017 show  3 times.. Indio ..Hollywood.. Costa Mesa.. Indio and Costa Mesa.. were shorter shows with no breaks.. Songs were cut from the 1st set..  I cant see goin again in 2018 unless there is a revamp of songs.. saw PS twice in 2000.. twice in 2006-7..and once in 2016.. Thats  8 times total.. And 3 times Smile 2004 5..  One time TLOS.. Grand total since 1999 23 times i believe or more..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         y                                                                        Its funny i was listening to BW 2002 england a couple of shows recently pet sounds tour and the 1st set had LOTS of deep cuts and must have had 20 songs in it.. Stuff from surfs up.. friends.. smile.. ballads from today lp side 2.. I yearn for those days again.. Solo songs and deep cuts.. im sorry i sound like a broken record.. i keep bring this up.. i mean in 2002 BW sang Forever and Good Timin in tribute to DW CW.. i guess you cant go back they say

At Costa Mesa they sold over 4600 tickets.. Well where i was sitting it was almost full so they must have gave away ALOT of tickets.. Nothin wrong with that.. But it hold 9600.. It used to seat 17000 before they got rid of lawn section .. Every year from 1983 thru 1992 BB played there every summer.. Lots of BB memories in that venue for me.. Saw BB every year there..

I'm surprised that 2018 will be a Pet Sounds tour again. I guess maybe that's the positive rub on ticket sales. But after having seen 2 Pet Sounds shows last year, that particular segment of the show was fairly dissappointing. Brian's almost lounge lizard type of spoken performance was not really good. I wouldn't go to see Pet Sounds performed like that again, and frankly I don't think I would do another Pet Sounds show, because I've also seen it a few times, and the shows were better a few years ago when Brian seemed more interested in performing Pet Sounds. Just my opinion.

Hopefully, the Pet Sounds 2018 "Tour" is no more than the three scheduled dates with an orchestra. 

What will the first look like?

Brian Wilson - Pet Sounds - 2018 - For Really Reals The Final Final Performances

The article I cited above indicates, if we couldn't already guess, why they would continue to book PS shows/tours. It's hugely lucrative. It is true that, at this stage, the PS tours are targeted at a wider audience, and that's probably part of why the first set of the the last few tours has had a lot of "meat and potatoes" numbers. But they have done a good amount of what I would still call "deep cuts"; they just haven't changed much from show to show or tour to tour. But they've done in the last couple years:

Honkin' Down the Highway
The Night Was So Young
Funky Pretty
Feel Flows
Aren't You Glad
I'd Love Just Once To See You
Let The Wind Blow
Hushabye
Susie Cincinnati
She Knows Me Too Well
Wake the World

Other at least "moderately deep" cuts:

Girl Don't Tell Me
Salt Lake City
Little Honda
Please Let Me Wonder
Monster Mash
Drive In
Add Some Music To Your Day
Marcella (admittedly only once or twice)
Al's songs (Then I Kissed Her, Cotton Fields, California Saga:California; all songs common in the last few years but somewhat "deep" in a larger context)

Not to sound like a BriMel apologist, but I can understand why his shows have become geared towards the oldies. That is the era that Brian was not only the most involved, but it was the most prolific and it defines his legacy. Plus Brian doing oldies IS different from Mike doing oldies in terms of how they are presented. Mike and the touring band (even when Carl was still alive) presents the oldies like it is the soundtrack of a bitchen beach party. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, sometimes you need to just occasionally turn off your brain. But Brian presenting the oldies with that band, you are reminded of how innovative and special that music was as you pay respect to the guy that wrote and created that music
Which is why I always rolled my eyes anytime someone says "Brian's shows are just like Mike's!"

No, they aren't. Really

If they were truly selling the show to new markets, I would buy this line of thinking but frankly...they aren't. On the financial side of things, this is no different than how Mike and Bruce operate. Albeit, these Pet Sounds shows are vastly more expressive, artistic, and frankly...more musical. It's less of a party, and more of a celebration.

Regardless, let's celebrate some of the OTHER musical successes in Brian's career.....

I'm really not interested in seeing this show a third time in 2018, I know I'm in the minority. But Brian was perfection at The Strathmore in 2016 and I'd rather remember that, because he certainly was NOT in Baltimore just a month prior. In the same breath, I'm not interested in seeing Mike and Bruce. I had a fantastic front row seat this summer...had a great interaction with Mike singing his autobiography and chatting with many band members, but Bruce Johnston treated me like sh*t. I'm not putting more money in his pocket (from tickets at least).

On the otherhand, I am VERY excited for Al Jardine's storyteller outing...I REALLY hope this becomes a larger scale run than the current two venues.

I think both Brian and Mike's shows are right to revolve around oldies.   The Beach Boys top material was released from 1962-73, so I have no problem paying for a ticket to hear mostly those songs. 

But, with Brian's, I'd like to see him get away from the Pet Sounds sets since reviews of many 2017 shows showed that Brian didn't seem to put his all into the PS set like he said during the first set, and the encore. 

In terms of trying to generate revenue, why would Brian's tour ever be any different from Mike's tour or anyone else's?

Brian's tour is clearly going where venues/promoters/ticket buyers want them, and they're selling the show that promoters want.

That being said, Brian's tour does *not* operate financially in the same fashion as Mike's tour. Brian's tour has *way* more overhead costs. Brian travels in more cushy accommodations, I believe they travel with much if not most of their tour rig/gear, and of course as we all know it employs *way more* musicians in the band.

Mike runs a lean operation, renting most of the gear in most cities, and has a smaller band. He does have to pay the licensing fee to BRI, which considering its power and pull, he's getting away with at a very cheap price. Plus, Mike collects 25% of that licensing fee back as a member of BRI.

So Brian, even in his hugely active touring schedule of the last two years, still does *less* shows than Mike does in a given year. So he has an even stronger incentive to maximize profit per show and overall, knowing that he won't be touring *all* year.

He has been able to book far more shows, and larger/more prestigious venues, with his PS tour.

That all being said, we don't yet know if all of Brian's 2018 shows will be PS shows. We also don't even know if it will be a heavy touring year in general. The website blurb implies we're going to get more than just the three Nashville shows. But he may do far fewer than the 70-100 shows he has done each of the last two years.

There's no question that Brian's audience is going to be far more open to deep cuts (he has toured multiple full solo albums in concert). His audience skews younger, more of an indie crowd, etc. Mike's shows skew much older, a lot more senior citizens, etc.

The "PS" tours are about as mainstream as Brian has gotten, and yet he's still doing a TON of deep cuts at those shows. Let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of things, all but 3 or 4 of the PS songs are "deep" cuts. There's a reason even during the deepest of the deep cut theater shows Mike does, Mike has never gone past 6 or 7 PS songs. He's never tread into doing the instrumentals or "I Know There's An Answer", etc.

Brian's lack of enthusiasm for the PS set is, apart from fan setlist wish lists, the only truly legit reason to give pause to doing a ton more PS shows.

About the PS tour, I think it depends.

Brian seems to be very tired to play it over and over again, but, it's definitely more lucrative and gets more attention than anything else.
People outside the U.S are not very used to the show, and there are countries Brian never played or haven't played in years. I spoke with Darian last month, asked him if there's a possibility of gig in Brazil, and he said they're trying, but they don't have financial conditions at the moment. If they ever have the opportunity to play in Brazil again (Brian only played here in 2004, one city and only 4 Pet Sounds songs on the setlist), they would probably have to do the PS tour. I believe it would be the smartest decision, financially speaking.

But when it comes to the U.S, he should definitely change and decrease the number of shows, at least for now.
I think his next album will contain new songs, and maybe 2/3 oldies as a bonus.

Looks like we have a new date: May 15 in SC at the North Charleston Performing Arts Center. It's also a "Pet Sounds" show. I've updated the top post with the new date.

Several new dates including Kennedy Center in DC, looks like all of these will be Pet Sounds Orchestra dates, so at least a little different look.

And Blondie Chaplin just posted that he will be on the tour.

Thanks for the heads up on additional dates. Weirdly, Brian's website posted those new dates but only his Facebook page is showing the SC show on May 15 thus far.

I honestly don’t mind seeing pet sounds again if it’s with an orchestra, but this should be a short 10-16 date tour with Symphonies and then he should take off until an early December Christmas tour. That’s my two cents.

Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.

Found another one -- this tour is getting closer to me.

May 16 -- Augusta, GA (Bell Auditorium)

Not to sound like a stick in the mud, but is anyone else slightly annoyed that these Pet Sounds dates are still happening? They've been saying it's the "final" performances for the last two years, when it's obvious that these aren't the final performances of PS.

It's fantastic Brian and his band are still touring, but saying that it's a "final" performance of Pet Sounds for the past two years creates a false sense of urgency to concertgoers — esp. since he's coming back to the same cities.

I feel the same way. The late 2016 shows were billed as "final", then the tour was extended a full year, appearing in many of the same cities. I really believed that 2017 would be the end of the tour. But then the VERY next tour is ANOTHER Pet Sounds tour??? I love Pet Sounds, and I love Brian's shows, but he really seemed bored at the 2017 show I attended. I'm grateful for any tour, but I think that both Brian and his fans would enjoy something new. Maybe even another Smile tour.

Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.

We were considering it, but I think we're passing.  Its a weeknight and we'd need a babysitter. 

Plus, that show in Bethesda last September was soooo good that I want that to be my last memory of PS live.

That's the other piece...it's such a risk with Brian. It looks like this will be the first night of these symphonic shows and I don't think he's ever had a good opening night.

Thats true, especially with the uneven performances of the PS album.  For a BB show in 2018, I think I'll keep my fingers crossed for an Al show, or a Brian Xmas show. 

I caught opening night on the 2015 NPP tour, and Brian and the band were hot. Not rusty in the slightest. If anything, I'd say Brian comes across better when he's had a break (whether months or days), and it's usually when he's on the second or third night in a row that his energy sometimes starts to drop.

I'm by no means an apologist for Brian tours. I've seen him over a dozen times and some shows are better than others. The weird thing about the last couple years of PS shows is that the *first set* continually shows Brian more upbeat and happy and energetic than he has been in years, while the second set shows him more detached and bored than I've seen him in years.

But ultimately, I don't think the 2018 dates are primarily targeted at superfans that have already seen multiple shows. Not that he's playing all far-off, brand-new markets or anything, but I think the general idea is to do some additional venues that haven't had him lately or at all and/or are asking for additional shows.

Added another date to the top post: 5/19 in Viera, FL.

I'm sticking with this assessment.  I'll let you know if I'm wrong about there being new material for hard-cores.

If Brian's inspired and has the sound he wants, he does very well.  I think the orchestra will work for him.  Yes, sometimes he gets tired and he's even more prone to getting bored - maybe even more than some of us who are asking for more deep cuts.

I've been reading that ABBA will be doing a world tour in 2019 as holograms appearing before a live band (good for them for having all that great film footage to work with).  I think it's them in their 20's/30's when they had all that energy.  Pick your options, do you want living BBs or holograms?  No criticism intended toward ABBA - I think its a really creative (and probably lucrative) idea.  

Ronnie James Dio is also touring as a hologram.  I fear this is where live (?) music is heading.  Im fine with playing to a video like The Beach Boys do to Carl and Dennis for one song each, but I wouldnt want to see a hologram on stage for a whole show. 

No sir. I am not paying standard concert prices for that for anyone. I'd pay about ten bucks for that, like I do for a ticket at a movie theatre, because that's all it really is.

Oh hell no.  I don't like that idea one bit

The only way I would be remotely interested in a hologram show/tour of an artist is if it were Jimi Hendrix, and only if somebody discovered a totally unknown to exist concert film of him, making it totally "new" to fans.

f*** that,  I'd pop a blu ray in.

Of course,  I say this as an EDM artist , in a field where live performances usually consist of laptops, microphones,  and a light show, I dunno :lol

I lived in Pompano Beach. There is no dignity there, trust me. I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.

There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he died at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.

He is allowed to. Brian has stated numerous times that he has no desire to retire. He is interested in both recording and touring. In fact, he has even recently said he is more interested in touring than recording! He has his bad days...he will hear auditory hallucinations on stage from time to time, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to tour.

My comment comes from watching his performances on YouTube where he looks so sad and miserable. I always felt, personally, that he is being pushed out there to perform to keep his lifestyle the way it is. When you got to a Mike and Bruce show, there is fun but with Brian it just looks so somber, like a funeral. Thank God for Al and the band.

But if you say he has stated repeatedly that it is what he wants, so be it. He is coming to my area in May 2018, I will surely be there.

I don't think Brian tours because he needs the money. I think it's fair to assume that Brian and his extended family are set for life and they have been for a long time. It's also been discussed that Brian tours in more luxury than Mike & Bruce. In other words, he's not counting pennies. I think it's fair to say that touring is more of a struggle for Brian than it is for Mike & Bruce and at times that can be observed simply by watching a youtube video. With that said, what is Brian to do? Hide away in his bedroom? His ailments won't disappear if he retires. Although, maybe his back problems might improve a little. Still, I get the sense that he's making up for lost time. I think it took him a long, long time to truly understand how much his fans appreciate him. I think his goal is to make them happy, which makes him happy. That doesn't mean it's not a struggle for him, though. If he wants to retire, I support him 100%. No one here would argue that he doesn't deserve to!

I don't think we'll ever encounter holograms of the Beach Boys. Nobody in the general public cares who they're seeing. The Beach Boys will become the Glenn Miller Orchestra of Rock and Roll. I'm 23, and I have no doubt that when I'm 53 that the Beach Boys will be touring...perhaps with Scott Totten as the "long time member" like Bruce is now...

The brand will indeed almost surely be licensed in some form or another. I don't know if we'd see Totten still doing it 30 years from now. I don't know his exact age, but I'd have to imagine he's nearing 50 right now.

Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.

The "does Brian want to be touring?" question is really no different now than it was back in 1999 when he started doing it. It's pretty clear that the reason it's such a controversial topic is that the answer is indeed somewhere in between. I think Brian wouldn't do it left to his own devices. But I think he also appreciates the benefits of being motivated to stay active (both physically and mentally, and musically). He clearly has never liked many if not most of the aspects of touring. But he also knows he gets something out of it (money is one thing; though not the only).

Listen, I'm 37. I can't imagine seeing any member of the Beach Boys live by the time I turn 40 aside from maybe Al. If there is SOMEONE alive and healthy enough to put together a good BB show experience .... I am 100% in support of it.

I'd love to see Matt Jardine over Foskett, though.

Me neither.  But as the legends slowly pass on or retire, I could see this becoming more common. 

Mike, if he maintains his health, I could easily see continuing past 80 years old. He hands over a huge hunk of his show to other lead vocalists. Bruce doesn't have to do any heavy lifting at the shows, so as long as he maintains his health he could do the same.

Obviously, with each year the stats dictate a demise for all of the common reasons becomes more and more likely. But I doubt Mike will "retire" as long as he's able to do it. He'll either do it until he dies, or until he has a relatively significant infirmity.

I would definitely much prefer Matt Jardine to Foskett for both musical and non-musical reasons, if a license is eventually issued outside of any founding members.

I'll let the cat give my answer to that possibility:

(http://www.yesmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/grumpy-cat-no-memes_5.jpg)

Give grumpy cat the license.... :hat

I wouldn't want to see it (now or at any other time), again for both musical and non-musical reasons, and I'm skeptical as to whether BRI would ever sign on for something so long as any founding members are still alive.

But based on the available info I have, I think it's definitely possible that Foskett wants it and/or is angling for it if only in subtle ways.

Foskett may not be as much of a lynchpin to Mike's organization as he was to Brian's at times, but I don't believe Foskett is just another guy in Mike's band now. He joins Mike for public events (often if not usually without Bruce). Other than Stamos (when Stamos is on tour with them), Foskett seems to be the most prominent public face of the band outside of Mike.

Once there are no more original BB touring, the name should be RETIRED. Period.

Mike will tour through Skype at age 90....

RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Getting back on topic...two questions in regards to Kennedy Center Concert...

Can anybody find what time tickets go on sale tomorrow? I see that information NOWHERE.

Also, I am beginning to doubt the presence of the NSO. I have read on Brian's website press release that he will be joined by the National Symphony Orchestra. I have read on other accounts that he will be joined by HIS ten piece orchestra (his band), and on the Kennedy Center website and description it makes NO mention of the NSO performing.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.

Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

He tours for the same reason as everybody else: to make as much money as possible while they still can. It's the same reason you and I go to work every morning. Sure you may happen to like your work, but would you do it for free?

Don't believe them when they say those tours don't bring them much revenue. That's basic PR to prevent accusations of charging too much for tickets: "we barely make any money as it is, how could we charge less for tickets?" Truth is, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. All of those old rock stars have ex-wives and child support payments and a bunch of people on staff and a bunch of kids they need to leave the biggest estate to.

Dude, you need to stop believing the same crowd that has been trying to tell fans Brian should quit playing live shows since 1999. Not coincidentally, a good majority of them on the various forums we all know were posters from the UK.

Not my problem if you haven't interacted with anyone beyond reading bullshit like Doe and company have spread for years. Just don't try to call me out when the facts are readily available, or in some cases, perhaps not as publicly reported.

If BW hated touring, he'd stop touring. Simple as that. Rolling Stone just voted Brian's most recent PS tour one of the best shows of 2017...is that "PR" too? I don't see Mike and Bruce on any such lists for the record.

Since you don't take my word as anything more than buying into PR bullshit, you need to try tracking down others with far deeper personal connections who will report the same thing about Brian's attitude toward touring and accuse them of buying the "PR", ask them what the deal is with Brian's touring, then get the responses and realize it's not PR. But I doubt you'll get the time of day let alone a reply from anyone who actually knows something beyond the rumors and sh*t posted on the PS forum or the now-defunct BBB. Have fun with your delusions, sport.

Just consider every seat sold for a Brian show could be considered cash out of ol' Mike's licensing-fee-paying pocket. Who would it benefit most to try denigrating or challenging anything about Brian's touring that would affect ticket sales? FYI. Think about that one.

Didn't know you were Brian and could speak for him.


Exactly.

Whether or not Brian is bored of playing Pet Sounds or not does not diminish how he actually feels about performing and how he feels about the crowd.

And before anyone says anything




That is specifically referring to the charlatan Andrew Doe and his acolytes. Oh, and HE stated that Brian's tours LOSE money. Don't believe me, Kreen? I kept every single PM he has ever sent me and can show proof. So if Brian's tours lose money, but he tours only for the money, well...does that make any sense to you?

That should have happened the day that the 2012 tour ended.

Agreed

If I had my choice, I would rather see Brian focusing on recording, new material, than touring endlessly, doing Pet Sounds and the greatest hits year after year. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect a 70-something man to continue to create beautiful music, but I remember all the hope, optimism in the air when Brian re-emerged in 1995 after several years off the radar. We got the IJWMFTT soundtrack, OCA, and there was all the talk about the Paley sessions. It was all about moving forward, all the great music he still had in him. Now it all seems to be about the music he made 50 years ago. And I guess that's fine if he has reached the end of the line as a creative artist.

I'm with you, actually.  I want to hear new music from Brian more than anything.  Hell, I'd "settle" for him finishing songs from the vault that he wrote. I want to hear studio stuff for Brian.

Failing that, a tour based on the Playback compilation would've been ideal IMHO. Mixture of his best solo work along with his usual setlist? I'd be there in a heartbeat.  That said, I'm just glad he's out there, and if he comes back to Houston, I'm there regardless.  Just being in the same room as him hearing him work his magic? Oh yeah,  can't beat that

I don't claim to know Brian's motivation for sure but quoting from a recent interview (from memory so forgive me if it's not exactly correct) he said 'I love my band, I love my bus, I love the tour. I miss the deli though'... and ever since I've had it stuck in my head to the tune of Elton John's Rocket Man ('I miss the earth so much, I miss my wife...').

It's possible for someone to not *need* the money, yet still tour at least in part because it makes them money.

Make no mistake, Brian and his organization have booked a ton of shows in the last few years, and continue to book PS shows, in part because it's lucrative. I think Brian being out on the road is about more than purely making money (which is why he's had some down years like 2014, etc.), but I think they can't *not* dig finally making some good bank on these PS shows.

I wouldn't be surprised if the very early Brian tours didn't turn a huge profit. But make no mistake, these PS shows definitely are making them some good money. There's no way they'd be paying for Al and Blondie full-time unless promoters were putting up some nice advances.

Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)

In about one minute.  The BW website states "Tickets go on sale Thursday, December 21 at 10 a.m. at all Ticketmaster locations"

I wish I knew the answer to the question about the symphony.

Well, we're in! I'll be scouring the internet to find out all I can about the NSO's presence in the performance. Got box seats about ten rows back, no one in front of us...$100 each. My grandmother's 74th birthday is May 9th, so I'm taking her down for the evening for her birthday. She hasn't seen any Beach Boys since C50 (And refuses to see Mike and Bruce) so even if it's the same shtick, it'll be nice to see it with someone who hasn't seen it before as this will be my third Pet Sounds show. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to it! Even if it's same old same old, how many days do we get to say we're seeing BRIAN WILSON?!?!

My thoughts exactly.  I've seen the Pet Sounds tour a ridiculous amount of times, but given the choice between seeing Brian perform Pet Sounds and NOT seeing Brian perform Pet Sounds, I'll take seeing him, thank you very much. 

I bought tickets too.  I'm kind of scared to tell my husband we're going to see Pet Sounds AGAIN, especially as this means a trip for us. 

The Kennedy Center website says “featuring The Symphony Orchestra and Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin“

I'm not trying to be an ass, can you show me where it says that? I cannot find it anywhere on their website. On the event description it cites "and his band" at the top and "joined by former bandmates Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin" at the bottom.

Not a problem, I’d want to know too, I’m fact i do since it’s probably the only way I’ll buy tickets.

http://www.kennedy-center.org

Go to the bottom it’s under News and Noteworthy on their main site

I see now, that's the same press release from Brian's website. I take that to mean that the NSO will be there however, I'm still a little concerned that it makes no mention on the specific event page itself. Typically these things are labeled as "NSO Pops" or something like that. I will print this press release from their website and be back at the ticket counter in a hot second if I walk in the concert hall on May 7th and there is no NSO.

I read the advertisements and didn't see "NSO" mentioned anywhere, unless I missed it. I'd contact the ticket office before buying, if the presence or non-presence of the NSO is the issue, and confirm whether or not they will be there.

Kind of semi-related hypothetical question here...

I wonder how many ticket buyers did a variation of what you described above when they bought tickets to one of Mike's shows in the past 4 years that ran photos advertising and promoting the show that featured Brian, Al, or the C50 lineup in the press package...only to find out Brian, Al, and C50 were not on stage at the actual Mike show they bought tickets for. A lot of fans simply didn't know the in's and out's of all this as much as the more connected fans, and I always wondered if some did ask for refunds after buying tickets thinking they'd see Brian and Al or C50's lineup as shown in the marketing materials but did not.

If one is inclined to spend the money on lawyers and paralegals and other foot soldiers, "disgruntled ticket buyers" can be sought out.

Allegedly/supposedly, when Al did his first "proper" gigs with his "Family & Friends" band at the Strawberry Festival in Florida in February 1999, "confused" ticket buyers were sought out to "prove" that people thought that Daryl Dragon and Owen Elliott looked like "The Beach Boys" to them.

Such scrutiny of course has apparently never been undertaken by BRI when it comes to who might be confused by Mike's shows over the years.

To be clear, I doubt droves of disgruntled/confused ticket buyers has ever been a problem at any BB or BB spinoff show. Tons of BB shows in the 80s used group pics that included Brian when Brian wasn't going to be there.

I do think the C50 thing was a unique situation, and the rather blunt and emotionless press release from Mike "explaining" how his post-C50 shows wouldn't include the other three guys can probably be explained by the fact that they knew that a ton of C50 press material would be floating around in the ether since he was literally ending C50 and then doing a gig *the next day* with his own licensed BB band.

It's not an enormous issue. I know it's still an over the top high quality engagement. But, it does clearly say "Symphony Orchestra" in Brian's press release. I think I'll call the box office as you suggested.

Please let us know if you find out, I’m wondering if the orchestra will just be a set group playing with Brian on these dates and that’s what they mean, not sure. Several of the Florida gigs site an orchestra that’s with Brian.

Is that the same UK where fans were/are considered by the Beach Boys as being more 'sophisticated' than the US audiences when it came to sticking with the band when they moved away from fun in the sun music and stayed loyal during the difficult times.  Where Brian decided to premier the SMiLE Tour?  Maybe, like me, a lot of people were annoyed at the excuse for cancelling the NPP Tour.  A tour where the wrong venues were booked in the first place.  I think you are wrong to be critical of UK fans.  You, a moderator on brianwilson.com, call people out for being on Mike's payroll.  Where's your objectivity?  If you have a bias fine, but don't call others out for the same thing.  Just accept it and move on.  If you have a problem with AGD fine, but no need to trash everyone else.  Remember, mods on here were happy to give him chance after chance. Maybe because they liked the fact they thought he was in the know and they were getting info others weren't.  

Personally I love the Beach Boys, especially Brian, and will never pretend to know what these guys think about each other.  No-one, even your insiders, know the true story.  They only know what someone is willing to let them know at a particular moment in time.  It doesn't mean they are getting the full story.  For that reason, I take it all with a pinch of salt and respect the guys as artists.  I haven't bought Unleash the Love yet, unusual for me considering I buy every Beach Boys release as soon as I can.  I love NPP!  I go to see Brian every time and do the same with Mike and Bruce.  I enjoy all the shows.

Also, Beach Boys Britain doesn't seem to be defunct as far as I can see.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Can't speak for him, but I took it as being a certain segment of said fans who are , for lack of a better way to put it, "Doe's Cronies". I myself certainly don't lump all UK fans together, just like I don't lump all US fans together.  If my understanding of it is wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected (as well I should be). But, yeah, to me it came across as a reference to Doe's clique, not a condemnation of all UK fans.


This is something I regret terribly. I let my supposed friendship with him (not realizing he was using me/playing me like a damn fiddle)  blind me ...the whole thing where he was threatening Phil Cohen, for instance (just to name one example), I didn't think was true. Had I known that he was threatening people via PM, I wouldn't have let it slide like that. But I didn't think it was true. I regret that.

I appreciate your honesty Billy.  I also agree that not all fans are the same.  Plenty of US fans are sophiscated and plenty UK fans want Brian to tour if he wants to.  By the same token, it is wrong to accuse people of having agendas when they express an opinion. It's what these forums are for.  I know people who are fans (not obsessives like me) and they didn't enjoy Brian's interpretation of Pet Sounds during the last UK tour.  They're not on any payroll and keep going back, as I will to both groups' shows.  I will also criticise where I see fit.  Such as fake Brian signatures on merch I've purchased from or Mike for his use of autotune.  Most fans just want to enjoy the music and have a discussion on it without people getting personal and feuds developing.

As far as the thing goes with the "agenda"...hypothetically speaking....let's say if there was proof that someone who claims to be neutral at one point drew a paycheck or was employed by a certain person (and was an actual employee , not a buddy) who slandered another certain person for the first guy...maybe there was a paycheck stub, or maybe something as small as a LinkedIn profile or Facebook page where this person stated they were an employee of the person in question.  In this pretend scenario, such a person getting paid to do these things suddenly takes on a new meaning and would put things in perspective.

In such a make believe situation,  though,  one must make sure all of their "i"s are dotted and all the "t"s crossed before making such an accusation publicly , of course. But if such  fantasy situation was indeed a reality,  it would definitely speak to an agenda and all the pieces fit.

Hypothetically.

To "mikedonn" :

The explanation about getting "chance after chance" has been addressed multiple times including today, which I agree with and experienced too. It's unfortunately a fact of life that people can get taken in by con-artists and people with deeper agendas than expected as happened here until the lid was blown off and it was exposed. So that is and has been a done deal.

If you take issue with me including all UK fans in my calling out of a few rotten apples in the bunch, I'd urge you to read exactly what I wrote and see where I said nothing of the sort. I never would say all fans of any particular region or area were anything other than fans. It just so happened a particular group who happened to be from the UK could be counted on for the most consistently negative comments and complaints whenever the BW crew announced something related to a tour, across multiple forums and boards. I've been following these forums for a very long time, and in the past 5 years that kind of knee-jerk criticism became more consistent and obvious than the previous calls for Brian to hang it up, quit the road, "we're worried our dear Brian is on the road too much!", all that garbage.  Funny how Brian doing just that and quitting the road over a decade ago may have benefited one specific entity licensed through BRI, but I'll leave it at that.

Also, if you have some proof of me saying anyone was "on the payroll", please point me to where I said that too because I don't believe I've ever made that claim here or elsewhere, whether or not it's true in some cases. Meanwhile I've been challenged on who I did or didn't share a drink with in 2015, speak with at concerts, etc. and have had blatant lies told about me or things I did or didn't do. I guess that's OK, Mike, since you don't seem to take issue with that level of scrutiny?

Again, the fair shot is there and the door is open if it can be found in my words that I was referring to *ALL* UK fans. Because I was not as my post here shows, it is simply wrong to try to paint it like I did and respond as if I did, but it's part and parcel of how a group of posters who seem to be aligned with guys like Doe have acted for years. If there is no case to be made to challenge or impugn someone they disagree with or want to see trashed in general, just make sh*t up and run with it. Then spread the word and find gullible fans to believe it. Just like fans were contacted and expected to believe lies that reached into personal lives and even the adoptions of band members' children and their marriages. Mike, I'll let you decide if that's appropriate for historians and self-proclaimed "experts" to engage in via fan forums. We did not think it was and took action. It's gone elsewhere.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I know you were referring to only a handful of UK fans.  Regarding the payroll claim.  I'm not going to spend time on Christmas Eve trying to find it but you have certainly alluded to Doe and maybe Cam Mott being on the payroll. Maybe someone else might know where to find the quotes?

I don't think threats, etc are acceptable anywhere.  We'll have to take your word this stuff happened because we don't have the PMs.  I also don't find personal insults to be acceptable, you seem to and do it often against people.  Maybe you have your reasons but you need to let it go at some point.  When those posters left here you should have ignored them and stopped referring to them here.  That makes you no better than anyone else if you don't rise above it. 

You like evidence?  Show me evidence that posters were saying Brian should quit the road in 1999?  He hadn't even toured the UK by then.  I also don't think those group of UK fans you refer to would have preferred to have Mike tour and make money before Brian since they were getting backstage passes to Brian's shows and access to band members etc.  Brian gigs were also cooler to be at than Mike gigs.  Why would anyone want to jeopardise that? It doesn't make sense.

As for who you hang out with at concerts it's your business.  Except when people may feel you are taking sides.  Personally I don't care as it is all petty stuff.  You seem to hate Mike Love more than Brian Wilson does.  Brian might not hate Mike at all, unless you've heard he does from an insider?  Have you met Mike personally?  I don't think Mike is worth getting worked up about.  He can try all he wants to rewrite history but it ain't gonna happen.  You should take solace in that and move on.  Brian doesn't need anyone to fight his battles.  The audience on here is so small as to not make much difference to perceptions the public at large already have.  Raise a glass to that over the festive season!

Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

On a different note...how about that upcoming tour? If he comes to Houston I probably will go.  I've never seen Pet Sounds live before so there's reason enough there, but with it being the 50th anniversary of Friends coming up, I wish there would be something to commemorate that. 

I'll second that.  I would love to see Friends performed and Love You!  The Wild Honey section last year was fabulous.

That's what I'm hoping for. I want to hear stuff I haven't heard before live. And yeah that includes most of pet sounds but the idea of hearing Friends live brings a smile to my face

Friends was an album that sold even less than Wild Honey, and we didn't get Wild Honey live, so I seriously doubt we'll get a Friends tour.

Yeah I know.  Just would hope for something like Brian doing little bird. 

Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)

And we're happy that you are :)

I second that!  :)  Still standing indeed!

And I'll add that as long as this board and the BW board will exist, those idiots who went after good people, regular posters, and fans like Ang on these boards will always be banned for life. No matter what aliases they try to reappear as, they'll be banned again. No matter who their friends are or how much "knowledge" they claim to possess or what aliases they use to try to sneak back, they're not welcome.

Thanks Billy and Guitarfool! Your support of myself and anyone else who was/is bullied on this board and Brian's own MB is exemplary.  I believe I know why AGD made this particular comment about me. He had been posting about a birthday message that had been flashed up at one of M&B's shows for a lady with whom I have no problems whatsoever.  He was posting about it because he had arranged it - the usual self-aggrandisement which is why I responded with a post about the time Brian and his band had actually sung Happy Birthday to a fan in Gateshead. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so catty - no offence whatsoever to the recipient of M&B's message. Had this been a solitary incident perhaps I'd have risen above it. I'm not scared of Andrew. But I know of several people who have been put off posting because of fear of being - not disappeared perhaps but certainly demeaned.

But it's Christmas. Time to be grateful for all the good people who post here out of love of the music and a wish to learn more about it and the people responsible for creating and performing it. This place can and hopefully will continue to survive the loss of those who try to turn it into something less pleasant. Merry Christmas Smiley Smilers - or whatever celebration it is for you. For all of us it's a celebration of some beautiful music.

As Billy said, we do have the info you're questioning, the relevant info was posted already, and some that were too personal were deliberately left off the public view but the involved parties were informed where appropriate. Anyone who doubts any of this, it's already been in the open for over a year now. Unfortunately I think the original file host went belly-up in the meantime or has changed platforms, so a lot of uploaded photos besides those in question are not readable in posts as they had been. But they can be re-upped.

Maybe some other long-term posters and members can reach into their better memory banks for the examples of Brian's touring coming into question, because I know I've been reading such comments for a very long time but cannot recall each instance or post going back 15 years or so.  ;D

I would suggest if you want to see one prime example that wasn't even on the boards but in a court of law, read through the 2005 lawsuit Mike filed (and eventually lost including all appeals) against Brian, Melinda, David Leaf, et al and you'll see comments about the quality of Brian's live shows being sub-par, how Brian's mental issues hampered the shows and harmed the "brand" for which Mike was the torch-bearer (according to the suit), how Al "bastardized" the brand name, and all kinds of nice (sarcasm, there...) comments from Mike. And at the time of that filing, the Smile tour was the tour of note, the one which garnered rave reviews from all corners and which Rolling Stone just named one of the best tours in rock history...but apparently Mike thought otherwise and put his negative opinions and criticisms of that and other BW tours into the public record through the court system. And it's funny how the fan-forum criticisms I've cited seemed to follow that lawsuit apart from whatever existed before, about BW and the tours. So there's that, too.

I have also never charged Doe or Mott with being on the payroll in any posts I can recall. Just like I never accused Jim Hirsch of plagiarism, even though several posters took to other forums accusing me of that. But like I said, it's been a case for years where if the facts don't fit the goal, just make sh*t up and run with it. The best part about having and knowing the actual truth is there is no substitute.

So Mike, if anything like the things you cited are in doubt, just ask. You'll get the real story and the facts from me, and from Billy, instead of reading and believing whatever crap and lies have been posted on the PS forum, the Hoffman board, Facebook groups, etc.

And above all, my best wishes for a Merry Christmas!

Cheers, Ang! And Merry Christmas!  :)

I still have everything saved to my hard drive with back ups.

The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.

I like immediately after that, where they talk about the LA Light Album disco version and Al tenses up.

I got a huge crack over that...the look on Al's face is epic.

Brian sounded great on that little bit of HCTN; I was hoping he might work that one up for the live show. He still could, of course.

I did see this not too long ago but thanks for that. By the sound of Brian doing that bit, I think they ought to include it. It's also my favorite from WH.

My feelings exactly.

just don't let it be Mark McGrath.

That is one of my favorite Brian/Al moments ever. The look of horror on both of their faces discussing the disco version and the NOOOOOO

:lol

Wow - look at all I missed over the Holiday!

I think most of us with a certain perspective never asked for freebies in exchange for commentary on any MB, nor anywhere else - because we understood the idea of quid-pro-quo and didn't want to be involved in that. We enjoyed buying the tickets in support of people we love, and wanted to honestly answer that we were there for the joy and could state under oath that there was no "pay-back".  There were others of Brian's friends who were invited backstage, etc. because Brian loved them and it was a great thing for them to be there for support before and after shows - he considers many friends as part of his family.

One might wonder if there were exchanges from one-time BW band member(s) and certain fans.  I'm making no claims.  There was just an odd pattern of supporting Brian by certain fans, then trashing him when the source of the goodies seems to have dried up.  It could mean nothing, but other fans seem to continue to support the BW band without those certain advantages and continue to love the shows.

I haven't a clue what any BB (licensed) band loyalists might have been offered or given - or not. Again, happily, I have no idea, and never will.  Maybe they purely visit Klub Kokomo out of love.  I have no association whatsoever.

As far as the attacks on Ang and Craig over the years, I know the people who give so, so much and ask nothing.  That's why I pay attention to what they say, while not so much, others.

It is a HILARIOUS moment indeed. I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!

Side note, but...the way people talk about disco HCTN, you'd think not only that it didn't chart but that it sold at 'Summer In Paradise' levels. I'm not defending it, but just expressing how surprised I was to find out that it was relatively successful. Apparently, it only reached #48 on the disco Top 80, but it did reach #44 on the Hot 100 and #37 in the UK.

But didn't the band receive tons of jeers and loud booing when they played it, causing them to retire it almost immediately?  That probably stung more than anything else, because I don't imagine that's ever happened to them before or since…

I have recently re-evaluated my own feelings on the song, and I definitely like it more now than I did previously. It grew on me over the years.

I was fine with it apart from the strings and those blasted monkey sounds

Yes, they were booed and they dropped it from the setlist as a result. Still, if they were stung, I'd think it was more the venue (Radio City Music Hall) than the booing itself. As Carlin wrote in Catch A Wave, "they had long since learned how to adjust their own interests to suit the audience's expectations." All I was saying, though, was that I was surprised that it sold as well as it did considering its reputation. Consider how many BBs singles performed worse in the 70s and 80s.

That is indeed a good point.  Considering it's reputation,  I would have guessed lower too.

I wonder how much the disco backlash, which I think is largely rooted in toxic masculinity, played into the poor reception of this song by this particular band. I realize that many people didn't expect disco from this band, and many simply didn't want disco from this band, but I think the extreme reaction might of been due to some perceived threat that it came to some across as... a band that was viewed as a very American and male type of stereotype was suddenly going along with a genre that was often associated with gays and women.  I say this because the band explored many other genres without quite the same backlash before.

I'll never get why disco was such a bad idea. I mean, the Bee Gees pulled it off, and there are a fair amount of similarities between the two groups. If anything,  the issue is 1)timing, and 2) it was a very poor attempt at disco

I think the problem was, it sounded like a generic disco track with the Beach Boys voices overdubbed on top of it. There was a way to make a disco-flavored track that still retained the unique sound of a band: the Rolling Stones had "Miss You"; the Kinks had "(Wish I Could Fly Like) Superman"; and Wings did "Goodnight Tonight", which had Latin touches to it.

Yup...that'd fall under the second point. Finally heard the single version and it sounded hacked to death. sh*t, I'd have booed too! But yeah I keep repeating this, but those blasted monkeys summed up just how lousy the production was

I wonder if the sales were more related to people buying anything related to disco rather than fans of the group itself? As mentioned, 60s artists such as the Bee Gees, Stones and others had success. Another was The Four Seasons. Why couldn’t the Beach Boys? Aside from the production, I have always said they missed the disco wave by 2 years.

I think other rock bands did the disco thing much much better.  Kiss, the Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, etc had disco hits, but it still sounded like them.  Plus, they were new songs, not a discofied retread. 

Regarding playing the disco version of HCTN at Radio City Music Hall in 1979, while it may not have gone over well and some may have even booed one or more of the performances (they did a four-night run at the venue as I recall), it's worth noting that at least one audience recording of one of the Radio City gigs floats around, and there are no audible boos from the audience at the end of (or during) "Here Comes the Night." I remember listening to the recording, knowing the "booing" stories, and waiting for it at the end of the song, and being surprised to hear pretty normal audience applause/cheering.

Maybe the boos were in a different part of the theater, or maybe the boos were worse at one of the other gigs (I'm not even sure if HCTN survived all four nights). But I find it interesting that the recording I've heard sounds pretty normal.

The band hadn't completely soured on the track that quickly though, apparently. They did the song a couple months later on "Midnight Special."

Thanks for the insight. The "booing" story varies a little from book to book, so I've wondered how severe the booing actually was. Also worth considering is that disco HCTN had only just been released at the time of the Radio City Music Hall shows (entered the charts at #83 on 3/3), meanwhile the song had peaked at #44 just a week or two prior to the Midnight Special TV show.

I was lucky enough to have attended 2 of the Radio City shows back in 79...I think they did 3, but might have been only the 2. I don't recall serious booing during or after HCTN Disco song, but I do remember more of a collective groan from the crowd....more like an "ugh" Regardless, they were greats shows, and I vividly remember a crocked Dennis knocking over a tray of beer very close to, and perhaps onto, Mike Love! I remember Dennis laughing...seemed to be the only member of the band who was! Typical Dennis.

Very cool, Tony S! Thanks for sharing. I never tire of hearing fan recollections, particularly of '70s concerts! I notice Dennis sang You Are So Beautiful at two of (or all ?) the shows. Since we don't have a studio recording of YASB, I'm always interested in finding that definitive live version.

Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.

I misread some previous info the same way. Glad to have the record straight on this. It's a tad more puzzling that Al would be that put off by Brian mentioning the disco version (even jokingly so), but I guess he's probably just got not the most positive recollections and associations with that song. I wonder if Al would recall the 1992 Surfin' in the same way, if he's ever even heard it all the way through.

In some cases, more than implied. Yeah, there are a few setlists that suggest the song was still being performed, at least sporadically. It certainly wasn't history after one show. Not a big deal, just interesting.

Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.

A lesson the Beach Boys, and their members, learned a few times. 

I wonder if some of the booing was from Dennis?  :lol

I wonder if Al just outright hated disco in general, or if this particular track done by this particular band (his own) was simply not to his liking. Mike might have been a disco fan (of ABBA), but that also might just be due to the fact that it tipped the hat to Mike (and Brian's) own song, Do It Again, and less about actually really liking ABBA or disco.

Considering Al was opting to sing covers of old rock and roll songs around this time, I'm thinking he wasn't a fan of disco (and I can't really say I blame him).  I could see any guitarist in a rock band taking issues with his band taking their music into the disco / club.

Oddly - bear with me - I'm trying to remember when I THINK Brian first heard the disco version HCTN. I remember when they invited him into the studio first to hear the final mix of "Good Timin'."  I enjoyed it but he showed no interest in it.  Whenever he was around the BBs as a band then, he didn't seem to want to be around.  If his brothers visited socially, he seemed fine, but....he loved them.

As I remember things after that, he was shortly out of the hospital and staying at a hotel/condo (nice but weird) place in Westwood before they found him a house in Santa Monica Canyon. I remember a copy of the record appearing - I'm pretty certain it was pre-release.  They (meaning Korthof or some of the other employees) played it for Brian. I was horrified when it came to the disco version to HCTN, so I'm afraid to project my sense of it onto him.  Let's just say he showed no interest in any of it.  That I feel certain of.  He was pretty much stuck in the room, but he had tuned out.  I do feel comfortable saying he never wanted to hear it again, so...

Thank you for that recollection. ... considering how the original song was one of his best songs, productions,  and vocals after Pet Sounds (actually it's my top 10 of any period) I'd feel insulted if I was him. I LOVE HCTN, personally.

With this perspective,  seeing him in this clip becomes even more endearing

That's an amazing recollection to hear, thanks Debbie. I can understand how it must have been a total shock and outside of his comfort zone in terms of genre.

I am sure he has heard '92 Surfin', I saw them play it live with him.

Don't forget that Disco Celebration was recorded.

I'm not sure a ton of music lovers even back then loved disco because of its inherent "disco" style. Rather, people liked a lot of disco stuff because it was a hunk of "pop" music at the time.

I think older bands from the 60s tended to appreciate music that maintained some hallmarks of the band and/or were melodic while utilizing some disco elements. So stuff like "Miss You", or McCartney's "Goodnight Tonight", or ELO's "Discovery" album. Those were all cases of the songwriters writing a song, and the resulting arrangement and production having some arguably "disco" element.

None of those cases were like what the BBs did, where it was an uber-calculated decision, made almost outside of the band (remember Bruce had just come back into the fold), and entirely devised and mostly even recorded without much group input. The resulting recording sounded zero like anything the band had been doing recently, and stuck out like as sore thumb even on its own album.

As for why Al (and others) would dislike the track, I think in part it has to do with the song being both more or less outside of his hands, and also the track tanking. I think most of the BBs, even Mike or Brian, tended to put up with one or the other. If a single tanked but they got to do what they wanted to do, they weren't too upset about it. Or, if some outside influence was the main starter behind a song and they had little input, they were still okay to go along with something if it was successful. (Though Mike contradicted this to some degree with TWGMTR).

I would guess someone like Al was already skeptical of HCTN, and then when it not only didn't do well on the charts, but resulted in adverse reactions from audiences (even if grumbling/groaning more than outright booing), it was much easier to be wholly dismissive of the entire thing.

It's also probably part of why Al stayed away from much of "Summer in Paradise", and even later on when doing SIP stuff in concert, Al didn't exactly seem extra enthused performing it.

Note that Al seemed to even try to stay away from doing "Kokomo" with his "Family & Friends" band after he was out of the touring BBs, seeming to only do the song when the venue/audience/event seemed to necessitate it. When he's talked about the song in interviews, he seems happy to point out it was a great shot in the arm for the band, but doesn't exactly jump to saying the song itself is an all-time classic.

Note that during the BBs 1979 "Midnight Special" appearance, where all six BBs were present, Brian is nowhere to be seen when they do "Here Comes the Night", and Dennis also jumps off the drums and tries to hide next to Carli Munoz doing a little percussion (I recall reading Dennis often completely left the stage when the did the song at actual concerts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANVUu5NiTo

Right on. I forgot from reading some setlists online long ago that they did play it live a few times. I wonder if it was augmented with some modern early 90s backing track?

I'm definitely going to see the Pet Sounds show in D.C. in May. I will not miss it this time!

I was listening to Sunday With Sinatra with Sid Mark this morning (Philly radio), and a radio ad for the Parx casino and entertainment complex was aired...which mentioned a May 8th show with Brian and the PS tour! Parx is in Bensalem, PA just outside Philly for those in the area who could attend.

It caught my ear because unless I missed it, this May 8th show in Bensalem is not yet on the Parx website, nor is it listed on BW's site. It would make sense since he's already booked for the Kennedy Center May 7th, yet has three shows in Nashville with the symphony May 10-12.

I'm waiting to see more on this, like a confirmation, denial, correction, or official listing.  :)

Thanks GF! I may have to make my way up there for this one.

Hooray!

Every time I think it's gonna be the last time....

http://philly.carpediem.cd/events/5713948-brian-wilson-presents-pet-sounds-at-xcite-center/

Interesting -- Brian's also doing some non-PS shows:

http://gazette.com/beach-boy-brian-wilson-set-to-bring-surf-sounds-to-colorado-springs/article/1619508

BEACH BOY BRIAN WILSON SET TO BRING SURF SOUNDS TO COLORADO SPRINGS
By: Jen Mulson
January 22, 2018

Beach Boys co-founder and Grammy Award-winner Brian Wilson will bring his "Greatest Hits Live Tour" to Pikes Peak Center this spring.

The concert will feature the iconic surf music the group has brought to life since 1961. Special guest and Beach Boys co-founder Al Jardine also will perform. The show is April 18.

Tickets are $55 and go on sale at 10 a.m. Friday. Call 520-7469 or go online to pikespeakcenter.com or broadmoorworldarena.com.

Interesting! I'm still wondering if 2018 may be a year of more scattered dates and small clusters of shows. More active than 2014 clearly, but less so than the subsequent few years.

Only for you, Brian. A third row seat costs $134 with fees....but I did it anyway. Looking forward to seeing the man, and hopefully some of you! Come say hi. I'm forever wearing a Pet Sounds shirt.

Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested:

https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf

Guess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012?

$15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates.

:lol Ha, ha! myKe had to do 31 more shows than Brian to make less! Liking that aspect of it for sure.  :p

So, Brian's charging more then.   

Or, another way to look at it is that Brian is *able* to charge more. Or, potentially, people *aren't* willing to pay as much to see Mike.

It's right there in the chart; Brian's average ticket price is about $80 and Mike's is about $60. Which sounds right to me. While they play some of the same venues, Brian doesn't do as many small market gigs, fairs, festivals, etc. Brian's tour also hasn't been coming around to pretty much every market, every year, for decades and decades.

Brian's tour also has a much larger overhead than Mike's does, so it's not like all of that ticket price premium is going to straight to Brian's pockets. That extra $20 per ticket gets you a larger band (including another original Beach Boy, and three Beach Boys total), sometimes nicer venues, typically a less "casual" audience, etc.

Mike's a bottom line business guy; I'm sure he charges precisely what he can. If added a 33% premium on average to his ticket prices, he's surely sell less tickets. He has also dug himself a hole (to the degree grossing $7 million plus probably another $5-7 or more from corporate gigs and international dates is a "hole") by over-touring. Mike could easily charge "Brian prices" or "C50 prices" if he actually built up demand by taking a year or two off, or doing something other than 150-175 shows *per year, every year.*

It seems Brian has been able to charge more by adding two words to the ticket - "Pet Sounds."

I attended two shows on the NPP Tour in 2015.  I had 5th show seats for one, and 2nd show seats for another.   The face value of each ticket was around $60.  Which is pretty much the same price I paid to see Mike's Beach Boys in 2015 and 2016.

However, the 2016 Pet Sounds show I attended was a $99 face value for a 25th row ticket.  (I was fortunate enough to receive a free fair of tickets to the other PS show I attended). 

I know it's just the nature of the beast.   Roger Waters also charged more money when I saw him tour on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, as opposed to his In the Flesh Tour.   But, I think it's worth noting if we're comparing how much each tour is grossing. 

To the main point, Brian can charge more for tickets, so he does. And??

I'm not sure why doing "Pet Sounds" shows is framed as if it's some sort of cheat or loophole. Mike was and is free to do a "Pet Sounds" tour too if he wanted. Let's see if he can add a premium on his ticket price then.

The main reason Brian is even on the list is because he's done far more total shows in the last two years than in most previous years.

To the specific point of ticket prices, I'm not sure your singular experience speaks to an overall trend of a higher ticket price for PS shows. I think Brian has always been on the higher end of ticket prices for his type of show, and his higher grosses over the last couple of years is more about doing more total shows in more markets. Here's a rough run down of some of the BW shows and ticket prices I've experienced:

1999 - Warfield Theater, San Francisco - $39.50 (balcony, because the floor only had basically nightclub-style tables)
2000 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $80 (Pet Sounds tour, no orchestra, second row seats)
2001 - Shoreline Amphitheater, Mountain View - $68.50 (Paul Simon tour, lower reserved section, but was only a 70 min. show)
2004 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $65.50 (about 15 or so rows from the front)
2005 - Greek Theatre, Berkeley - $80 (reserved set in the second section back)
2007 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $65 (Pet Sounds tour, bottom section, but a ways back)
2007 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $85 (near the back of the small floor seating section)
2013 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $105 (Jeff Beck tour, lower reserved section but a ways back)
2015 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $129 (NPP tour, lower reserved about 10 rows-ish back)
2015 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $135 (lower reserved, but not super close)
2016 - The Masonic, San Francisco - $98 (Pet Sounds tour, lower reserved, but a ways back)

Each of the two 2015 BW shows I attended were the most expensive, and neither were PS shows. Obviously, each show doesn't have precisely equivalent seating sections, so in some cases I was in the first, second, or third tier. But in most cases, I was usually going for first or second tier and simply "best available." And I usually only went for second tier seats for venues where I was familiar with the minimal benefit of the top tier based on their seating map.

I even saw both a PS show and a non-PS show in 2007, and the non-PS show was more expensive. And Al was at both shows.

You can frame it however you want. 

But, the point of my post was that Brian's tour grossed over $2M more than Mike's because he charged more.  Plain and simple.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  But, I think it's skewed logic to sit back and chuckle, saying "Hey Brian made X amount more than Mike." 

I don't think sitting back and chuckling accomplishes anything.

But you seem to want to frame Brian charging more as if it's an exception/option only available to Brian.

Mike could attempt to charge the same amount as Brian does for tickets, and could do a "Pet Sounds" tour if he wanted. The reason he doesn't do either of those things is undoubtedly because he can't and won't and would see a drop in ticket sales.

The fact that 2016 and 2017 have been the first years in ages (if ever) that Brian has done anything *approaching* the number of shows Mike does has resulted in a *very* instructive and for once valid comparison/contrast between the two touring bands.

Brian can charge more than Mike can. So he does. Again, if Mike could charge 33% more per ticket, he would without a doubt do just that. The reason Mike can't charge as much as Brian for tickets is obviously up for debate, but there are some pretty strong, obvious potential reasons:

1. Mike over-tours and thus dilutes his market
2. Brian is more of a prestige artist PR/image-wise, and thus brings in an audience that can and will pay more
3. Brian is willing to shell out for a larger, bigger production in terms of number of musicians
4. Brian is, often times, willing and able to do full albums front-to-back, which certainly is an angle to market a tour with
5. Brian's tour has more original Beach Boys in it than Mike's band, and has more total Beach Boys in it than Mike's has, and the second (and third) Beach Boy in Brian's band is a much more prominently placed member with more lead vocals and showcase numbers

The original statistic cited in the first post to bring this topic up was Total Gross dollars, not total number of tickets sold. So, saying Brian grossed more money because he charged more for his tickets doesn't take any epic sleuthing.

The Pollstar stats also show that Brian not only grossed more total dollars, but had an average ticket sale figure (presumably a per-show average) of 1,755 versus Mike's 1,248.

So choice of venue and total number of tickets sold per show/venue also play a role in addition to pricing.

Brian, seemingly, can not only justify a higher ticket price than Mike, but can on average justify larger venues and can thus sell more tickets per show.

I agree sitting back and chuckling does nothing.  But, I saw that many of Mike's naysayers were really quick to jump on that gross revenue number.  

And Mike's defenders were quick to say "Brian charges more".

KDS, could you accept that maybe in 2017 it was as simple as Brian's tour did better than Mike's, or Mike's ticket sales declined? It feels like the same non-logic (#MottLogic ? ) that was used when the 2012 C50 numbers were parsed and spun to try to justify Mike's claims that C50 was losing money when the numbers don't back up that claim.

Well, I would say from an objective industry/music history observation point, that statistic is a bit surprising and potentially embarrassing for Mike.

Brian (and Al), who have at times been harangued by "friendly reminders" from legal to not too prominently notate their "Original Beach Boy" status in advertisements have, in the aftermath of Mike *leaving* their fully formed, reunited group (which did and would gross more than EITHER band), managed to out-gross Mike's tour.

I personally think Mike's numbers speak more to his over-touring and diluting the market than it does some huge anti-Mike sentiment among potential ticket-buyers. The average Joe *not* always buying a ticket to Mike's shows isn't passing on it because they think Mike's a jerk. They're sometimes passing on it because Mikes comes by every year, year after year.

But yeah, when you *leave* the other guys in your band, take the band name with you, and the other guys gross more money, it's not crazy to say that some would find that embarrassing.

I accept the fact that Brian's tour grossed more.   

I think the idea here is to see if there any takeaways from it beyond the statistic itself. "Ha ha! Brian sold more than Mike!" isn't a worthwhile takeaway.

But "geez, maybe Mike's overtouring and the higher end concert goer having more respect for Brian's show than Mike's" is something more along the lines of worthwhile takeaways.

Another takeaway is that Brian (and Al) should be commended (to the degree going out and touring warrants such) for breaking out post-C50 *without* the band name behind them and outgrossing the licensed tour. It ain't easy, even for *Brian Wilson*, to break away from a huge trademark like "The Beach Boys" and perform so well.

Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018. 

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner. 

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back. 

There's unquestionably a series of drawbacks (on the fan side of things) when touring acts get super-huge. Look at many of the top grossers. It's a lot of bloated, binoculars-required stadium shows and arena shows.

Two of the highest per-ticket price averages? Vegas residencies from Britney Spears and Celine Dion, where the shows are shorter.

Ironically, I agree with Howie Edelson that a 2013 (or 2014) Vegas residency would have been perfect for keeping the reunion together. It would have streamlined the whole process, kept TONS of money rolling in, and would have largely eliminated any warring managerial factions.

While I don't see any issue with the possibility that the average PS tour ticket is more expensive than a non-PS Brian show, unless you can provide some overall stats rather than your one personal ticket buying experience, I'm not prepared to say Brian is, on an average per-ticket basis, charging significantly more for the PS shows than for others. Indeed, I provided you a list of a bunch of shows I attended, including many in back-to-back years or even within the same year, which showed his non-PS shows are the same price and in some cases were MORE expensive than his PS shows. And the SF Bay Area market is (unfortunately for me) among the most expensive markets in the country, if not the world.

I do agree a Vegas deal would've been perfect for C50.  

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

I'm not certain there would be nearly as much interest in a Brian Wilson residency as compared to a full Beach Boys reunion. Meaning, full year if not multi-year deals as opposed to week-long-ish residencies. But you never know.

Nice thoughts! I agree. :)

The only price variations I've noticed are with regard to certain more expensive venues being more, particularly if there's an orchestra involved.

wrong thread

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brian’s thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?

Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.

Gosh, all that money coming in and Brain Wilson's North American tours as well as the 2012 C50 North American tour were supposedly money losers?

Interesting to see that only three other performers on the Top 200 list had a lower average 2017 gross than The Beach Boys. For sure, overexposure is a big factor there.

Good question about a fair where admission to see The Beach Boys is included, although Brian has played such shows as well, but far fewer. Having seen both the BBs and BW at the San Diego County Fair, while admission was potentially free, I paid for better seats. Regardless of how an average ticket price might be calculated under a county or state fair scenario, the performers involved would still receive gross revenue from their appearance which they and the promoters would factor into the decision to perform.

Yes, BW's touring expenses are significantly higher than Mike's, and the net figures would tell the definitive story, but looking at the numbers I find it hard to believe, as has been stated in the past, that Brian's tours lose money overall, and even harder to believe that the North American C50 tour, with an average gross of $300,000 per show, was a money loser, especially considering that promoters were asking for more shows.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

The other day I threw together a couple of graphs that look at how each touring group fared since C50.  Unless I missed it, neither group was listed for 2013.  It's also worth noting that The Beach Boys grossed $17,000,000 worldwide in 2015, enough to crack the top 100.  

(https://i.imgur.com/Msr2mpB.png)

M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.

With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.

Has he canceled any shows due to health issues? No.

People have been knocking Brian's stage presence that same way as you have since he first started playing shows almost 20 years ago, I guess if it were that much of a drawback he wouldn't have outsold Mike last year and people would stop going if that were an issue.

Go see Mike and Bruce acting spry and in good shape on stage so you don't have to worry about Brian's health, and he'll tour as he chooses.

As far as vocals, have you heard Mike singing live in the past several years? He couldn't get enough breath to sustain notes without straining on his own studio album (if you've heard it), and any number of performance clips from his shows on YouTube show this too rather consistently on songs he's done for decades, but that's topic for another discussion I guess.

Like I said, if Brian's health on the road is such a concern, go see Mike and Bruce when they come around and you won't have to worry about it.

Hence why he uses this sh*t on stage....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY

And schtick like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTDwX3pH8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTDwX3pH8M)

As of late August 2017 he still hadn't abandoned the idea of bringing cheerleaders on stage.

Spry.  ;D

Its all about the music.... ::)

Ahh, that old chestnut.

Whatever Brian has been doing, it's been working. And selling more than Mike's show apparently, if you look at those numbers.

Even with Mike's C50 ripoff video board and tributes....

You're completely misrepresenting my point. Yeah, Brian's not a ball of fire onstage, but he certainly didn't look like he was ready to fall asleep in 2015. But in 2017, after the amount of shows he performed? That schedule would be tiring for a guy 30 years younger. And dude, don't get me wrong here, I'm not here to defend Mike Love. I'm as much a shameless Brianista as anyone. I happily went to his Radio City concert last September and it was a great experience. That being said, Brian seemed exhausted. My argument is made out of genuine concern. I'm just a guy on the Internet who loves the Beach Boys. I'm not here to tear down Brian Wilson and I certainly don't have an agenda.

As for Bruce, health scares are not unexpected with performers of their age. Elton John, Billy Joel, and Paul McCartney all have cancelled shows with major illnesses over the past few years. I don't think it's fair to use that against them.

I do know Brian has had back issues. Other than that as far as I know everything is fine.

That said back issues *suck*. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy

You beat me to it. 

I don't think it's any of our business how any of their health is. That being said, Brian's physical appearance really hasn't decreased since 2012. That's not exactly a compliment either though.

Mike on the other hand, seems a little slower, a little gruffer, and a little more tired looking every year. AS for Bruce, I don't know what he went through in the fall but it aged him big time. He looks MUCH older since taking that time off.

Alan and David haven't visually aged in a decade at least, and in fact, David is one of those rare cool old dudes that looks better and better with age.

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?

I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I can dig that. But understand there are segments of fans who have been using Brian's health, stage presence, appearance, etc against him for nearly 20 years of playing live with his band. Not the least of which was Mike Love himself who outlined it as a reason why Brian was harming Mike's "brand" in the 2005 lawsuit (and Al too who was 'bastardizing' it), and used shows which Rolling Stone just listed as among the best live shows of all time as his evidence. Mike's "reasons" and evidence were yet again a farce to everyone but him and a small pocket of his fans who have been harping on these same issues you raised for way too long.

It's not an issue of Brian's health as much as it feels like some interests would like to see him quit the road entirely. Especially, perhaps, since those 2017 N.A. tour numbers came in and Mike's tour didn't do as well as Brian's...despite all the health concerns that the same fans don't seem to have with Mike even after a key member fell ill.

It's of course an issue, and shouldn't be used against these artists in their 70's and older.

So don't use it against Brian - If he's happy touring, he'll tour, whether Mike and his fans think he should or not.

The fans speak with their wallets, and they did quite loudly in 2017. Good for Brian and Al.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.

My wife knows pretty much every Beach Boys name, but usually can't remember Dave. She calls him "guy with the glasses" or Graham Parker, since she saw him in This Is 40 with a somewhat Marks-ian look.

(http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2012/12/Graham-Parker.jpg)

I kinda see it.

Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it. 

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece. 

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts. 

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing. 

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?

Its so funny all this talk of endgames, agendas, payrolls, etc.

There is no endgame, its only discussion. 

Seriously, do you even get any joy from being a Beach Boys fan?

Plenty of joy. For nearly 40 years up to the present moment.

It would be funny if some of that crap didn't infect the fanbase and these forums as it did. That's when my joy turns to disgust, especially when the cop-out is something like "it's all about the music". And when people try to lie, twist, and distort the most basic facts in the name of rewriting history to suit someone's narrative. But that's old ground.

I have to ask you in return, do you feel any joy, or even a sense of being thankful, that Brian Wilson is still touring as a solo act and that you have an opportunity to see him play when he comes to your area if you choose?

KDS, maybe your fandom or age missed this period of time, but up until the 90's I was one of many who thought we'd *never* get to see Brian actively performing in person, let alone be able to make music into his 70's and hopefully into the foreseeable future. There was a time when we thought all that goodness would have to exist on old bootlegs and back-catalog releases. Then I realize I've been going to Brian's shows to see and hear him in person for nearly 20 years, and it amazes me still. I was also fortunate enough to see him perform both Smile (as a completed work) AND Pet Sounds, two of my main influences on me being a musician, live and in person. Because, it was very palpable for quite some time that he was done. He proved us wrong, and we benefit from it.

If regularly bringing up how awful it must be for him to be touring and how frail and unsteady he looks is getting anywhere near the joy I have experienced as a fan of the man and his music, both live and just listening to his records, then I just don't understand where you're coming from. or where the people who do that regularly are coming from. If there isn't an end game, then why does it continue after 20 years of this?

You just nailed it GF!! Great writing indeed!!  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

One of the most problematic parts of this board is that one of the moderators is such a deep and argumentative partisan.  Look at this bullying. 

p.s. I don't agree with KDS either.

You're just putting words in my mouth at this point as I never said anything about Brian being frail or how he shouldn't be touring.   I merely pointed out some facts that may or may not affect his decisions to tour further, and also pointed out, what has already been stated before that the performances of the Pet Sounds album declined a lot during the 2017 tour, and the piece should've been retired at the previously advertised date of Sept 21, 2017.   

In fact, I'm putting a little money aside in case Brian's rumored Christmas Tour happens, and comes within 100 miles of my house. 

You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has. 

So, feel free to continue to swim in your little stew of paranoia with talk of end games and such. 

I mean, there are two posters who are saying that Brian is “very overweight”....really?

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/26757856_10156324160627241_607632697398349860_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3ae8cf7ff443721ca6378ebb5183d3de&oe=5AE7D66C)

Does that look very overweight to anybody? There used to be a poster here (now banned thank god) who for years admittedly mocked anything that had to do with Brian’s health, music, and management. So when people start making bullshit statements now I can imagine it gets very tiring for those who had to put up with it for years. I mean really, Brian is “very overweight”? Give me a break.

There are two posters who also say Brian looks lethargic onstage, yet I’ve seen him many times in the past few years and he is interactive with the audience, and gets very into singing many songs. Albeit, there are times when he is just sitting there at his piano, but I wouldn’t make a blanket statement that he looks “lethargic onstage” making it sound like he is like this for the entire damn concert. And yeah, he does have back problems, yet he’s still out there putting on a show for an audience who wants to be there to hear Brian.

People here are so concerned with Brian’s health, yet he’s got doctors upon doctors who check for his mental and physical health. He doesn’t need some armchair physicians from the Smiley Smile forum to recommend he take up residency in Vegas when clearly Brian is still wanting to tour and wanting to go onstage every night to play to his fans.

I mean, we’re comparing the ability to belt out a nauseating “wheeeeeeeeeen” and adjusting a mic stand with Brian’s stage presence...its utterly foolish if you ask me. So yeah, I completely get where Guitarfool is coming from.

“Very overweight” and yet interjecting that such statements and others are bullshit is considered bullying?

WHOA.

Smile Brian is Melinda Wilson.
Melinda Wilson was never confronted by Landy in a car dealership.
Brian has no chance of ever getting on the radio again.
Brian is controlled.
Brian is like a wheelchair bound grandpa who is wheeled out on thanksgiving dinner.
Melinda only adopted her kids for the tax break.

That is the exact bullshit that was spread here, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the inane garbage that the moderators had to deal with.

That’s 100% on the fools you now interact with on the Pet Sounds forum, KDS. That’s not a knock at that forum. It is a knock at the idiots who had an actual agenda to smear Brian and Melinda behind the scenes and directly on the board here. Hell, again one person admitted to saying the shittiest things about Brian and Melinda Wilson just to prove some kind of point.

KDS, do you really think those PMs that were spread being the scenes that originated with Andrew G Doe weren’t part of some agenda?

So yeah, when someone makes a BS comment that Brian is “very overweight” and you agree with it, how else is Guitarfool supposed to respond?...especially after having to deal with years of complete bullshit information.

This forum has the reputation it has because some on the PS forum have put on this guise that that entire forum is “all about the music” and that the “other forum” is full of lies and conspiracy. Meanwhile we’re not the ones who have a “researcher” who couldn’t give two fucks about research when it came to spreading the most unrealistic gossip about Melinda. I mean, keep on keepin on there, but don’t pretend like this place is some nuthouse with a paranoid moderator when you know exactly the history that took place here, you saw the PMs that are complete bullshit that the moderators here had to deal with.

So yeah, when someone makes some claim that Brian is lethargic and “very overweight” I hope anyone (moderator included) would call that sh*t out.

I can't speak for Andrew Doe, but his PMs have nothing to do with what I posted.   I can't speak for the motivations of others, only my own.   So, understand when I get called out for having some sort of "end game" for merely suggesting a Vegas residency would be more beneficial to a 75 year old with back issues in lieu of a full tour, I get a little peaved. 

What happened in 2015-2016 has absolutely 100% NOTHING to do with what I've pointed out in this thread. 

His PMs are part of the reason why bullshit information is a touchy subject on this forum. So when you agree with someone that Brian is “very overweight” and that his back is bad enough for him to take up residency in Vegas and you are called out, understand that its partly a reaction to everything that happened here in 2015-2016 (and the years leading up to it) where there was an obvious agenda...whether or not you have one.

AGD got off lightly only being banned from here, the behavior was that bad...

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 

Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 

Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?

Of course these guys are all old and their age dictates some level of at least an acknowledgement (maybe not always full-on "concern") that their age dictates things are more likely to take a bad turn.

But I'll be honest, I think at this stage Brian's *age* has surprisingly little to do with his level of enthusiasm or lethargy on stage. Last year, his first sets saw some of the most energetic, enthusiastic performances in years. His PS performances were very oddly the exact opposite. But that wasn't because he's old or having health problems. I think he just got bored with PS. Not even bored enough to not want to do the tour. Just bored, plain old bored. It appears they have tried to mitigate this to some degree by doing things like giving Al the lead on "Here Today."

But really, how many shows has Brian canceled due to health issues since going out in 1999? I'm pretty sure Bruce Johnston, who barely does *anything* at Mike's shows (even on an off night and with Al and Blondie and Matt and Darian singing leads, Brian *still* carries his show *far* more than Bruce *ever* has), has missed more shows in the last 15 years due to health issues than Brian.

If you want to just call Brian overweight, then I guess just do it. But there are older, more immobile people than Brian still out there touring. His back issues seemed more prevalent in 2012, and as others have pointed out, I have also known several people (younger than Brian!) with *severe* back issues, and it's something that usually *never* goes away once you've reached the point of surgery. Back surgeries usually don't make one's back a lot better. It often basically curtails further damage and hopefully more severe pain, and ideally helps with pain and some level of mobility. But when you're in your 70s and have back surgery and chronic back problems, it's always going to be an issue. Further, I would also say from experience that *every* person I've known with severe back problems with *absolutely* let it be known when they can't do something. Back issues aren't just a "pushing through the pain" issue. If Brian's back was still severe enough to warrant not touring, he wouldn't be doing it. He wouldn't have a choice. He wouldn't be able to move enough to get out of bed let alone shuffle on stage (with or without help). He wouldn't even be able to *sit* for two hours like he does.

This all reminds me of the infamous 2007 gig where Brian decided to lie down on stage. I was at the show. Not only did it quickly morph into "Brian passed out", etc., it started a huge conversation about whether Brian should be touring. I don't think that conversation was or is invalid. But I also think that, even in 2018, the question of whether he should be touring has not changed from what it was in 1999.

Bottom line, trying to draw some arbitrary point at which *you* think Brian maybe shouldn't be touring doesn't really work when you look at the objective facts. I'm just not a fan of spending a decade going to Brian shows, then all of a sudden seeing a show *you* think is sub-par, and then insinuating things about whether he should be on the road. The question of whether he should be on the road is a valid one from the fan perspective. But it was back in 1999. Hell, it was a valid question back in 1976, and 1982, and 1988, and so on.

Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 

Okay, well if you're not looking at passage of time or otherwise comparing Brian's appearance to any other period of time, how are you gauging whether *you* feel he's overweight? And not just overweight, but overweight enough to warrant concern?

And, have you continued to attend shows even after you've felt Brian's condition appears to warrant concern?

At one of the PS shows I attended, Brian did struggle to get to and from the piano. 

By the way, that's not me saying that Brian Wilson should quit touring and sit in a wheelchair for the remainder of his days. 

Reposting in case this was accidentally missed.

Maybe not very overweight, but he could stand to lose some pounds (as could I), as for lethargic, during the PS portion of the show, I have to agree.  Which is why I hope he gets away from doing that album in concert.   I think he's fine during the first half of each show and the encore. 

I have to repeat, I don't think Brian's evident boredom performing PS on recent dates has anything to do with his health. He's just bored. One could argue there's a management/PR issue at play (e.g. Tell Brian he sounds and looks bored and either work on fixing that, or move on to some other songs). But his back or his weight has nothing to do with Brian eventually finding PS something of a chore to plow through.

I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 

How does one act grossing more total money than another not tell the full story? There's *always* a ton of context. Maybe some bands did one show so didn't make the list. U2 plays stadiums *and* charges a ton for tickets. Some bands charge less and play more shows. Some play fewer shows and charge more for tickets. It's absolutely implicit in any list of top grossing artists that such a list isn't ranking anything other than that one figure. 

If anything, the (obvious) main factor that led to Brian making such a list (playing more total shows and for the first time something even in the ballpark compared to how many shows Mike does) is the most interesting takeaway from the list.

Now, that graph that was posted a ways back is interesting because it potentially shows for the first time the *possibility* (and I stress it's only a possibility without further years of data, which we probably won't get as Brian doesn't appear to be planning nearly as many dates this year) that Brian's touring is actually *eating into* Mike's touring numbers.

All of this is interesting not in a "my team beat your team!" context, but rather in the context of the continued standoffish political stuff between the "camps", especially post-C50. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these year-end numbers might annoy Mike to no end, and it's interesting to note that it could have been the reunited Beach Boys doing a "Pet Sounds 50th" tour in 2016 and 2017, where everybody would have helped to pull in even more money.

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.

Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.