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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: HeyJude on October 16, 2017, 08:33:09 AM



Title: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 16, 2017, 08:33:09 AM
Brian will be touring in three distinct formats throughout 2018. Some shows will be "Greatest Hits" (e.g. "Not Pet Sounds") shows, while additional "Pet Sounds" shows will also be performed. Brian, Al, and Blondie will also be touring the full "Beach Boys Christmas Album" in November and December. The show will reportedly include the full Beach Boys "Christmas Album" as well as tracks from Brian's 2005 "What I Really Want for Christmas" album (in addition to other Beach Boys classic I would presume).

All "Pet Sounds" and "Christmas Album" dates thus far list Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin as special guests. The "Greatest Hits" show have Al listed; Blondie's participation is not confirmed thus far.

NOTE: All May shows were postponed (some or all will be rescheduled; TBA) due to Brian's back issues.

"Greatest Hits Live" Tour Dates:

April 18, 2018 - Colorado Springs, CO - Pikes Peak Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html)

April 19, 2018 - Denver, CO - Fillmore Auditorium (Private Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/fillmore-auditorium-denver-co-53ec2ffd.html)

April 21, 2018 - Ivins, UT - Tuacahn Amphitheatre
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

July 15, 2018 - Colwood, BC - Rock the Shores Festival
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/westshore-parks-colwood-bc-canada-7beb9ecc.html)

July 20, 2018 - Lincoln, RI - Twin River Event Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/twin-river-event-center-lincoln-ri-53ebf321.html)

July 21, 2018 - Pocono, PA - Mt. Airy Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/sherman-theater-summer-stage-mount-airy-casino-resort-mount-pocono-pa-3bebe4d4.html)

August 7, 2018 - Tel Aviv, Israel - Charles Bronfman Auditorium
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/charles-bronfman-auditorium-tel-aviv-israel-2beb48e2.html)

August 18, 2018 - Doncaster, England - Doncaster Racecourse
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/doncaster-racecourse-doncaster-england-3e8f917.html)

August 21, 2018 - Dublin, Ireland - Vicar Street
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/vicar-street-dublin-ireland-43e8e383.html)

August 22, 2018 - Dublin, Ireland - Vicar Street
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

August 25, 2018 - Portsmouth, England - Victorious Festival
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/southsea-common-portsmouth-england-6be8c21e.html)

November 1, 2018 - New Brunswick, NJ - State Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/state-theatre-new-brunswick-nj-23960423.html)

November 13, 2018 - Kansas City, MO - Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/kauffman-center-for-performing-arts-kansas-city-mo-33979ce5.html)

November 15, 2018 - St. Charles, MO - The Family Arena
November 17, 2018 - Carmel, IN - The Palladium at the Center for the Performing Arts
November 20, 2018 - Grand Rapids, MI - DeVos Performance Hall
November 21, 2018 - Toronto, ON - Sony Centre

"Pet Sounds" Tour Dates:

July 19, 2018 - Morristown, NJ - Mayo Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/mayo-performing-arts-center-morristown-nj-33ebf8bd.html)

July 22, 2018 - Kingston, NY - Broadway Theater at UPAC
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/ulster-performing-arts-centre-kingston-ny-3ebd90b.html)

July 24, 2018 - Wilmington, NC - The Wilson Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/wilson-center-cape-fear-stage-wilmington-nc-3bebc8e0.html)

July 25, 2018 - North Charleston, SC - North Charleston Performing Arts Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/north-charleston-performing-arts-center-north-charleston-sc-7bebc258.html)

August 9, 2018 - Oxfordshire, England - Fairport's Cropredy Convention
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/festival-site-cropredy-england-33eb44a9.html)

August 11, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Anfiteatro Romano
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/teatro-greco-taormina-italy-5be8b728.html)

August 16, 2018 - Berlin, Germany - Admiralspalast
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/admiralspalast-berlin-germany-13e88969.html)

August 19, 2018 - Edinburgh, Scotland - Edinburgh Playhouse
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/edinburgh-playhouse-edinburgh-scotland-23e8f053.html)

August 24, 2018 - Birmingham, England - Digbeth Arena
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/digbeth-arena-birmingham-england-43e8cbdb.html)

October 27, 2018 - Bangor, ME - Cross Insurance Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/cross-insurance-center-bangor-me-5b963374.html)

November 2, 2018 - Richmond, VA - Dominion Energy Center (Rescheduled from May 15)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/carpenter-theatre-at-dominion-energy-center-richmond-va-5b967f28.html)

November 3, 2018 - Bensalem, PA - XCite Center (Rescheduled from May 8 )
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/xcite-center-parx-casino-bensalem-pa-7b967634.html)

November 5, 2018 - Washington, DC - The Kennedy Center (Rescheduled from May 7)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/john-f-kennedy-center-for-the-performing-arts-washington-dc-53966351.html)

November 6, 2018 - Huntington, WV - Keith-Albee Performing Arts Center (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/keith-albee-theater-huntington-wv-396592b.html)

November 8, 2018 - Atlanta, GA - Fox Theatre (Originally Announced as a GH Show)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/fox-theater-atlanta-ga-b9649ee.html)

November 9, 2018 - Augusta, GA - Bell Auditorium (Rescheduled from May 16)
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

November 10, 2018 - Clearwater, FL - Ruth Eckerd Hall (Rescheduled from May 18)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/ruth-eckerd-hall-clearwater-fl-6b97be22.html)

November 16, 2018 - Louisville, KY - Louisville Palace
November 23, 2018 - Ottawa, ON - TD Place
November 25, 2018 - Windsor, ON - The Colosseum (Rescheduled from May 4)


"Beach Boys Christmas Album" Tour Dates:

November 28, 2018 - Minneapolis, MN - Orpheum Theatre
November 30, 2018 - Hammond, IN - Horseshoe Casino
December 1, 2018 - Northfield, OH - Hard Rock in Northfield Park
December 3, 2018 - Pittsburgh, PA - Heinz Hall
December 4, 2018 - Englewood, NJ - Bergen Performing Arts Center
December 5, 2018 - Westbury, NY - NYCB Theatre at Westbury
December 7, 2018 - Staten Island, NY - St. George Theatre
December 8, 2018 - Wallingford, CT - Toyota Oakdale Theatre
December 11, 2018 - Sarasota, FL - Van Wezel Performing Arts Center
December 12, 2018 - Hollywood, FL - Seminole Hard Rock Hotel
December 14, 2018 - Dallas, TX - Majestic Theatre
December 15, 2018 - Austin, TX - ACL Live at The Moody Theater
December 16, 2018 - Midland, TX - Wagner Noel PAC
December 17, 2018 - San Antonio, TX, Tobin Center for the Performing Arts
December 20, 2018 - Thousand Oaks, CA - Thousand Oaks Civic Arts Plaza
December 21, 2018 - Cerritos, CA - Cerritos Center for the Performing Arts
December 22, 2018 - Santa Rosa, CA - Luther Burbank Center for the Arts
December 23, 2018 - Reno, NV - Grand Sierra Resort

*2019* tour dates can be found on this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.0.html

NOTE: May shows listed below have been postponed and haven't yet been rescheduled. Dates will be removed from the "May" list below and placed into their new dates as they are announced. As of July, it's unclear if any further dates will be rescheduled.


May 5, 2018 - Orillia, ON - Casino Rama Resort
May 10, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 11, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 12, 2018 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (Rescheduled for 6/20-21, 2019)
May 19, 2018 - Viera, FL - Space Coast Daily Park
May 20, 2018 - Pompano Beach, FL - Pompano Beach Amphitheater



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on October 16, 2017, 11:14:30 AM
Symphony dates! I'd love to see Brian in that kind of setting. I hope these shows are a bit more inspired than the PS shows were.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 16, 2017, 12:16:12 PM
Wow!!!  I am a Brian Wilson fan...at the very least.  Personally I don't truly believe that he can handle another long and demanding schedule of tour dates.  YES...the new album will have to be supported in some meaningful way and one would have to think that it'll be recorded and ready for release sometime within these next 6 months or so.  Maybe a package of 2 or 3 shows every other night in just ONE hand-picked city and taking place in special and entirely proper acoustically wonderful locations/venues.   These stops should be spread out between mid May and mid December.  That would work.   There needs to be real time off between tour stops...like maybe 9 or 10 days...thus limiting the showcasing of the new l.p. to as few as just 15 or 16 specific locations.

Brian's music is geared toward vocal performance.  If he is to participate in a qualitative and meaningful way he has to be allowed the time to keep his instrument in working order. Otherwise ... It's a disservice to the reason for taking the new album out for a ride let alone to the fans and to Brian D. Wilson himself.  He deserves at this point to only be showcased at his BEST.  Either that or just give him but a baton...and then...strike up the band.  Think that'd fly?  I don't.

The Pet Sounds 50th [and 51st] Anniversary Tour was a chance for all of us to come out and enjoy...and boisterously yell "THANK YOU Brian!!!"  But that's done now.  

Going forward I demand that Brian be presented with artistic dignity.  Don't 'Old Blue Eyes' him out the door.  He deserves FAR better than that.  So does his band.  So do we.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 16, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
I think cutting down on the number of tour dates could do a lot of good for BW shows going forward.  Except for 2004 when he took Smile on the road and did 72 shows, he did no more than 50 shows a year when he returned to being a touring artist. 



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 16, 2017, 01:23:05 PM
I think Brian actually did fine in terms of stamina in the last few years of touring. I think he just got stick of singing PS.

I'm not saying he should do 100 shows in 2018. But I don't think his ability to do shows in 2018 would be likely to be terribly different from 2017, so I think the main thing should be to do something other than PS, which I think is what the plan has been all along.

As for doing a lighter schedule, it's logistically difficult (not impossible, just difficult) for most artists to have a large band but only do scattered dates through the year, or to schedule a tour where there's a night off every other night.

Guys like McCartney or Billy Joel can do short spurts of shows because they have big bank, play arenas and stadiums, and can keep their band on retainer.

Brian's touring operation can't afford to keep the band on retainer all year to do five shows per month all year. He'd probably have to have more fill-ins and rotating musicians than he already has with the Darian-Gary-Billy-Debbie rotation.

If he does less dates, it's unlikely he'll do short spurts of shows like every month all year. It's more likely we'd see something in the mode of some of his 2000s tour schedules, which were (very generally) a month or two and then plenty of time off. Maybe we'd see something like the Fall 2013 sort of tour schedule.

But the idea is to keep the tour schedule tight to minimize excessive off days that make the tour more expensive.

Ideally, we'd see something more involved than 2014 or 2006 where he literally just did a few random shows here and there, but something less excessive than 100 dates.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 16, 2017, 01:38:30 PM
I guess what I'm failing to make clear here is that 'they' go out and do 1 city at a time.  There clearly are specific towns which can accommodate 2 or 3 consecutive shows at at time.  You really think it's just boredom?  I, on the other hand, think it was the taxing of his ability to keep on delivering the goods without proper breaks to re-energize and recharge his batteries ...and... hug his family.  I mean really...the guy is how old...and most of the songs he wrote were written for capable guys in their early to mid 20s to sing.  Many of those are tough songs to sing for anybody...regardless of age.  You have to have range and power and strength and stamina.

I doubt Brian's gonna settle back and write a bunch of duh duh duh...duh duh...duh duh duh...duh duh/Louie Louie songs for the Rock 'n' Roll album.  Trying to incorporate your thinking here H.J...If he/they can handle 3 cities back to back to back with 10 days off before heading out again...that's approximately [using a 2/3/2 formula per month...with 10 days off...] 56 shows over 8 months.  My suggestion would have been for up to 48 shows.  Sometimes less is more.  Either way I think we'd get a truer rendering of the music we love.  One thing Brian Wilson hasn't been...at least since 1965...is a machine.  Capitol may have demanded it.  We shouldn't.  [especially in 2018]


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 17, 2017, 06:33:32 AM
If the idea is to use the same basic touring model, but do blocks of three shows at one venue/city instead of three shows at three different venues/cities, then I suppose they *could* do that in select markets.

But I'm not sure how many markets, especially without the sales hook of a "Pet Sounds" show, could sustain a three-night stand in the same market.

Then there is also the issue, on the fan side of things, of how easy it would be to catch a Brian show if he narrows the markets he hits. To be clear, I'm not one of the "Mike's tour is awesome because he hits every fair and festival and cook-off within a five mile radius of where I live" sort of advocates. Part of being into a more prestige artist like Brian is that *sometimes* you've got to haul your carcass into "the city" to see him. But if you look at recent Brian schedules, he has done a pretty good amount of Midwest/south, etc. sort of "secondary markets." That's not happening in the "three night stand in large markets" model.

On the other hand, if the idea is instead to do whatever shows in whatever town, but then put in large (e.g. 10 day) breaks between runs of three cities/shows, then we're back to whether logistically that could work.

56 shows per year is *much cheaper* and easier to plan/schedule/rehearse/contract musicians if they do a straight 56-show tour over the span of three months or so, rather than spreading it out over eight months.

I don't want to downplay how rest can help most any artist, and certainly Brian. When I've caught shows after a day or two break rather than catching the third show in three nights, I do think the energy level is up usually. But I also think that Brian's clear antipathy in continuing to perform the entirety of "Pet Sounds" has been far more noticeable than his general dip in energy in previous years when he's had to do three or even four nights in a row. In other words, his third night in a row singing "Dance Dance Dance" has often still had more energy and enthusiasm than his performance of "You Still Believe In Me" after several days rest.

I honestly think it's quite possible that 2018 will be a very light year of touring (perhaps no actual full-on "tour" at all) due to, among other reasons, that he has saturated the market pretty well in the last two years. Frankly, I'm fine if he dials it back. One of the main reasons I did seeing him tour more rigorously is that it gives us a chance to see and hear Al who, for whatever reason, lost interest after "Beach Boys Family & Friends" was shot down in 1999 in every launching any significant number of his own live dates. Even with only a handful of leads per night, seeing Al (and Matt) with Brian's band has been more exciting than Al's random one-off gigs with Dean Torrence and the "Surf City All Stars." (No offence to those outfits; I would have seen Al and Dave and Dean if they had *ever* played a gig anywhere near me, and/or with any decent amount of publicity). 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 17, 2017, 08:24:21 AM
I would prefer that Brian NOT tour in 2018.  That said...I just don't see how he can release a new album and not go out to support it.  LOTS of artists these days go to spend a week or 10 days at a resort or onboard a cruise ship and people/fans come to see them at/on THAT chosen locale.  It's being done.  I assume it's successful because it continues to be done.  I just think that there are certain artists who can pull this off at more destinations  than merely Vegas alone.  But perhaps the turnover there, in Nevada specifically, helps to make it work?  I dunno.

What I do know is that Brian will have to be 'on' and in key for the new album tour to make a real impact.  If he can't sing lead on the new songs then there isn't much of a point in doing it.  I doubt he'll be cut the same break this time around.   Why screw with his image and legacy?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 17, 2017, 09:38:22 AM
Artists of Brian's era and stature often if not usually tie together and album and tour. But tours don't really support/push/sell albums much like they did in the olden days. If anything, it's the other way around for a lot of artists. The album is just a background promotional tool for a tour.

TV appearances can help push an album, and other promotional tools.

But by the time an actual tour gets going, the album attached to it has dropped off the charts (in cases where the album is out before or at the time of the tour's opening), and the tour is its own (and usually *the main*) revenue stream. Brian makes more off touring and VIP packages than he does off album sales for his solo stuff.

Doing a Vegas residency (which I think is relatively different from doing those "Oldies" cruises) would have been perfect for the BB reunion lineup, and it perhaps could work for Brian as well.

I think Brian might just be at another slight career crossroads. No BB reunion in sight. Other than a refurbished "Smile" tour, there isn't much of any touring "concept" to wrap a tour around that will sell a lot of extra tickets. He can still sell a core number of tickets, so some level of touring is always an option. So what does Brian do? Just another album/tour cycle? I'd prefer an album of new stuff to oldies R&R covers, but either way I would imagine he'll sing the stuff on any given album just fine, and then if he tours behind it he'll only do 2-4 songs from any new album.

I think it would be cool to see more concentrated, niche projects see realization. A boxed set of Brian's famous/infamous stuff, call it "The Bedroom Tapes" even if the moniker isn't terribly accurate, is where I think Brian could build up a lot of heavy interest. A boxed set of demos and curios, and wrapping a tour around *that* concept in some general sense, could be cool.

2018 ideally would perhaps see:

-Opening up of the BB archives (studio and live)
-A "Bedroom Tapes" boxed set to beef up interest in *Brian* on the indie scene again
-Separately or together with the "Bedroom Tapes" in some sort larger Brian boxed set, a full release of all the Paley stuff
-If Brian also wants to get an oldies R&R album out of his system, let him do that too. But get someone in there (Was, Thomas, someone) to finally get it done and out.
-A shorter, one-shot tour, perhaps in the fall, working in some new album stuff and more deep cuts, getting Al, Matt, and Blondie (if he's there) even more involved.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 17, 2017, 09:52:46 AM
I've suggested this before, but how about a Christmas tour?

A short trek through the US from Nov 2018 - early Jan 2019 which sees Brian, Al, Blondie, and the band do a set heavy with tracks from both the BB & BW Christmas albums.   

Sadly, in my neck of the woods, Christmastime is really the only time you hear BB music on a regular basis on the radio.   

Granted, it doesn't have the ticket selling power of Pet Sounds (what in the BB universe really does?), but it's something a little out of the box. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 17, 2017, 11:18:04 AM
I wouldn't mind hearing a few XMas tracks from Brian and the band.

But a "Christmas" tour would essentially just be a regular show with 3-5 XMas songs sprinkled into the setlist. I don't think they'd bust out the entire '64 album, nor would they work in much from Brian's solo set.

Al was apparently some time back in the last decade planning to do a Christmas tour with Christoper Cross and Jim Messina, and it of course never materialized. I have no idea how far into planning it they were, but that would have been interesting.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 17, 2017, 11:26:43 AM
I wouldn't mind hearing a few XMas tracks from Brian and the band.

But a "Christmas" tour would essentially just be a regular show with 3-5 XMas songs sprinkled into the setlist. I don't think they'd bust out the entire '64 album, nor would they work in much from Brian's solo set.

Al was apparently some time back in the last decade planning to do a Christmas tour with Christoper Cross and Jim Messina, and it of course never materialized. I have no idea how far into planning it they were, but that would have been interesting.



If they wanted to, they could chose about a dozen Xmas songs between the BB/BW albums (maybe sneak something like Winter Symphony), and still have 20 or so songs in the setlist for other material.   

I missed seeing Little St Nick in person by about a week two years ago.  I saw Brian on the 2nd leg of the NPP Tour the Friday before Thanksgiving.   After Thanksgiving, they swapped our All Summer Long for Little Saint Nick for the encore.  While I appreciate the restraint of waiting until after Thanksgiving to play Christmas material, I'd love to hear some BB holiday songs live. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 17, 2017, 11:34:40 AM
I wouldn't mind hearing a few XMas tracks from Brian and the band.

But a "Christmas" tour would essentially just be a regular show with 3-5 XMas songs sprinkled into the setlist. I don't think they'd bust out the entire '64 album, nor would they work in much from Brian's solo set.

Al was apparently some time back in the last decade planning to do a Christmas tour with Christoper Cross and Jim Messina, and it of course never materialized. I have no idea how far into planning it they were, but that would have been interesting.



If they wanted to, they could chose about a dozen Xmas songs between the BB/BW albums (maybe sneak something like Winter Symphony), and still have 20 or so songs in the setlist for other material.   

I missed seeing Little St Nick in person by about a week two years ago.  I saw Brian on the 2nd leg of the NPP Tour the Friday before Thanksgiving.   After Thanksgiving, they swapped our All Summer Long for Little Saint Nick for the encore.  While I appreciate the restraint of waiting until after Thanksgiving to play Christmas material, I'd love to hear some BB holiday songs live. 

He hasn't always waited until after Thanksgiving to do "Little Saint Nick." He did it on the second, 2005 *Summer* "Smile" tour!

(He was of course presumably sort of pre-promoting his XMas album, which came out in October of that year after the tour wrapped).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on October 17, 2017, 11:52:21 AM
I'd love to hear some BB holiday songs live. 

Go see M&B if they're around you during any December. You'll hear half the Xmas album.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 17, 2017, 11:58:59 AM
I'd love to hear some BB holiday songs live. 

Go see M&B if they're around you during any December. You'll hear half the Xmas album.

I'd love to, but they don't tend to come to my neck of the woods in December.  They're coming to Maryland the weekend before Thanksgiving, but I'm out of town that weekend. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on October 17, 2017, 01:31:35 PM


I think Brian might just be at another slight career crossroads. No BB reunion in sight. Other than a refurbished "Smile" tour, there isn't much of any touring "concept" to wrap a tour around that will sell a lot of extra tickets. He can still sell a core number of tickets, so some level of touring is always an option. So what does Brian do? Just another album/tour cycle? I'd prefer an album of new stuff to oldies R&R covers, but either way I would imagine he'll sing the stuff on any given album just fine, and then if he tours behind it he'll only do 2-4 songs from any new album.

I think it would be cool to see more concentrated, niche projects see realization. A boxed set of Brian's famous/infamous stuff, call it "The Bedroom Tapes" even if the moniker isn't terribly accurate, is where I think Brian could build up a lot of heavy interest. A boxed set of demos and curios, and wrapping a tour around *that* concept in some general sense, could be cool.

2018 ideally would perhaps see:

-Opening up of the BB archives (studio and live)
-A "Bedroom Tapes" boxed set to beef up interest in *Brian* on the indie scene again
-Separately or together with the "Bedroom Tapes" in some sort larger Brian boxed set, a full release of all the Paley stuff
-If Brian also wants to get an oldies R&R album out of his system, let him do that too. But get someone in there (Was, Thomas, someone) to finally get it done and out.
-A shorter, one-shot tour, perhaps in the fall, working in some new album stuff and more deep cuts, getting Al, Matt, and Blondie (if he's there) even more involved.


Hey Jude, is the Rock and roll album supposed to be all covers?

From articles from this year, I assumed Brian was writing rock and roll songs like those of the 50's and 60's.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mtaber on October 17, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
I'd like to see Brian do an album along the lines of the Beach Boys Party album.  He could pick 25 or 30 oldies/rock and roll songs that he likes, rehearse them a bit with his band, and then record them quickly, like the Party album.  Very informal, let the band have fun with it, and get the "rock and roll" album out of his system.  I'm sure Brian could have some fun doing some of the lesser-known Spector songs, and it would be great to hear him do songs he loves, without having to slave over them. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 17, 2017, 05:45:39 PM
Great idea mtaber! ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 17, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
Brian might cover an oldie or 3...as he did way back in the day...but it is my understanding that a good portion of the R 'n' R l.p. is supposed to be new songs.  And harkening back to 2015...you're right Jude.  Brian didn't perform all that many songs from NPP did he?

Oh well.  It'll happen as it happens.  I just want him to be healthy...and as 'on the mark' as possible.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on October 17, 2017, 06:36:29 PM
I was under the impression that they were supposed to be all covers and not new songs.

However much I like the idea of a stripped down Party! like album, I know that Brian does love his studio time tinkering and leading the band. I think that’s why I like NPP so much: you can listen to nearly any second of that album and you can hear at least 4 very different things going on deep in the recording. And I’d love to see that same attention to detail with a covers album.

My idea, which I’ve posted too many times before, is that Brian should make the classic covers album a “radio” show. Get some classic DJ to announce a couple songs every few songs, do an interview with Brian at some point. Start the album off with a classic radio jingle. But treat the whole thing like a classic radio show from the early 60s.

That being said, I would love anything, including an album done in the spirit of Party! just as long as we get another Brian studio album!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 18, 2017, 12:07:13 AM
I will believe the R 'n' R album when I see it.
It's more likely that Brian will tour again in 2018 doing a greatest hits show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 18, 2017, 05:20:17 AM
Brian might cover an oldie or 3...as he did way back in the day...but it is my understanding that a good portion of the R 'n' R l.p. is supposed to be new songs.  And harkening back to 2015...you're right Jude.  Brian didn't perform all that many songs from NPP did he?

Oh well.  It'll happen as it happens.  I just want him to be healthy...and as 'on the mark' as possible.

Other than the Brian and Friends Show that was filmed in Vegas, I don't think more than four NPP were done on the NPP tour in '15.

When I saw him in Philly in June 2015, he did Runaway Dancer, The Right Time, Sail Away, and One Kind of Love.  When I saw the 2nd leg in Rockville, MD in November 2015, Runaway Dancer was (mercifully) dropped. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mtaber on October 18, 2017, 05:20:48 AM
Rab - the Carpenters did that same type thing on side two of their Then and Now album.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 18, 2017, 06:55:29 AM
Considering the album (presumably) hasn't even happened yet, and that he's been talking about it for decades, I don't think there's any indication exactly *what* a resulting album would be. He has spoken at times about simply doing a R&R album, and I think at other times he has mentioned specific oldies artists. I don't think he has ever specifically said he would *write* new songs in that style. But he hasn't said anything to preclude that either.

At times, it has almost seemed like the two ideas are separate. One, to do a "covers" album of oldies, and the other to do a "Rock and Roll album" in a more general sense, which would presumably be Brian's version of "rocking", which doesn't really get much more hard-edged than something like "Marcella."

Covers of 50s tunes or new songs written *in that style* don't really interest me a great deal (though obviously one has to hear the result to know for sure).

The three things that sound more tantalizing to me are:

1. A new "Brian by himself" album. An album full of "Message Man" type tracks. Essentially, imagine the "Mike gets Brian alone in a room" scenario, just *without* Mike. This isn't likely to happen.

2. A boxed set/archival release of Brian demos, rare cuts, etc.

3. A "regular" new album simply full of new songs (which would likely include mining old songs as most albums have).



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 18, 2017, 08:02:22 AM
Pretty sure that Brian has spoken about the upcoming "rock 'n' roll" [not Rock] project with a degree of frequency.  He has also made mention of not having written anything for it "yet" but that was several months ago in one of about a dozen different interviews.  He also said that he plans to include some covers.  I think it became all covers mainly by virtue of on-line contributors imagining what song(s) he might wish to include on said rock 'n' roll album.

Yes...he's mentioned it many times through the relatively recent the past but the conversation has seemed far more to the point over these past 6-9 months.  Time will tell.  Brian is seemingly a different fella these days.  His confessionals [book/movie] seem to have further liberated him as did SMiLE, TLOS and NPP to varying degrees.

If he decides to hang up his spikes and put his glove and bat away now that the Pet Sounds season has concluded...I'd be alright with that as well.  If Brian wants to just sit back, take it easy, and watch Wheel of Fortune instead...s'all good.  Maybe, not unlike Johnny Carson, there's a song somewhere in all of that.

S'For Pat and Vanna
From Me and Lana.
The Healer Anna [Lee]
and My dog Banana
  
No rags to ruin.
Just my rockin' tune.
I'm over the moon
For Wheel of Fortune.

A, B, can't you see
With my TV
I'm gonna be
Pickin' the letter D.

Move over Mike
Hop on yer bike
I'm goin' for E
With my ol' pal Lee

Oh ya we're watchin'
{Watchin'}
Ya we're watchin'
{Watchin'}
Wheeeeeeel of Fortune.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: MikestheGreatest!! on October 18, 2017, 08:34:50 AM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 18, 2017, 08:45:32 AM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

How would it be graceful if it's already embarrassing?

Oh yeah, that's right, it's another troll post with no actual internal logic.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 18, 2017, 08:57:12 AM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

No it isn't...'cept for YOUR 'contribution'.  Well done.  You da 'man'.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 18, 2017, 10:37:08 AM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

Said the same thing back on the Egi Board.....15 years ago!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Wirestone on October 18, 2017, 12:46:47 PM
Brian might cover an oldie or 3...as he did way back in the day...but it is my understanding that a good portion of the R 'n' R l.p. is supposed to be new songs.  And harkening back to 2015...you're right Jude.  Brian didn't perform all that many songs from NPP did he?

Oh well.  It'll happen as it happens.  I just want him to be healthy...and as 'on the mark' as possible.

Other than the Brian and Friends Show that was filmed in Vegas, I don't think more than four NPP were done on the NPP tour in '15.

When I saw him in Philly in June 2015, he did Runaway Dancer, The Right Time, Sail Away, and One Kind of Love.  When I saw the 2nd leg in Rockville, MD in November 2015, Runaway Dancer was (mercifully) dropped.  

Unless Brian is doing a full album show, he does very few cuts from solo albums.

BW 88
Love and Mercy
Melt Away
Let it Shine (a handful of times)

Imagination
Your Imagination
Lay Down Burden
South American

GIOMH
Title Track (a couple of times)
HCWSBD (ditto)
Soul Searchin
City Blues
Desert Drive

Lucky Old Sun
Aside from full album shows ...
MAD
Goin Home
Southern California

I don’t think any tracks from the Gershwin record were performed aside from the full album shows, and none of the Disney songs were performed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 18, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
Wirestone is 100% correct; like most artists with a huge catalog of hits, Brian rarely digs into the back catalog and even when promoting a new album, only does a few cuts, which are usually mostly or all out the door by the next year/tour.

This pattern goes back to the 70s/80s with the Beach Boys. Albums like KTSA and BB '85 had a bunch of songs pulled for live performances, but they were mostly dropped very quickly.

We can, though, add "Melt Away" to the list of songs from BW '88, as it was done on occasion on a tour or two back in the previous decade.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 18, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
It's a particularly rare occurrence for Brian to perform a solo song from *several albums ago.* He did "Let It Shine" in 2000, but even then it was to promote the then-new CD reissue of BW '88.

He did "Your Imagination" at a few mid-2013 shows; that was one of the only examples of this.

As I've often said, "Brian Wilson" concerts are not really concerts showcasing Brian Wilson's solo studio career. Nor are they de facto "Beach Boys" shows, though with Matt and Al (and Blondie) there, it veers closer to that. But it's a showcase of Brian the songwriter more than anything. Brian skips "Kokomo." Mike doesn't skip "Surfer Girl."

Granted, this format should leave *more* leeway for Brian to do solo stuff. But you know what? He's performed *multiple* full solo album projects in concert. Proportionately, he has probably aired *more* solo material than any other artist of a similar nature in terms of going decades in a famous band and only *then* starting a true solo career.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on October 18, 2017, 03:57:54 PM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

Man, I’ve responded to you countless times in your time here, and I’ve never once gotten a response. When you grow the balls to actually reply to people who challenge your rather pitiful and moronic opinions I really hope you put a little more thought into it than you do with these drive-by potshots.

Also, the more you troll here the more likely leadership is going to ban your ass...and it would be a shame for you to have to find a new proxy through your VPN to scatter these jackass posts here. Might I suggest you either join the conversation instead of lobbing these petulant posts and ignoring the responses. Or just stick with posting your dbag opinion on the PS Forum.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 18, 2017, 06:22:42 PM
What’s that boom gif guitarfool posted? >:D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 18, 2017, 10:23:46 PM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 19, 2017, 05:10:17 AM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

The horror........the horror.........


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 19, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
There are certain elements of the recording ethos of "15 Big Ones" that I wouldn't mind hearing in a future project.

I'd rather hear something like his 2007 "I'm Into Something Good" (rather 15 Big Ones-esque), something with a bit of quirk to it, than straight kind of workman-like covers.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Terry on October 19, 2017, 04:21:17 PM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

From a recent interview.. http://www.jambands.com/features/2017/09/15/brian-wilson-s-enduring-pet-sounds/


Would you consider that a peak?
In 1976 we recorded the 15 Big Ones album. That was the highlight. That was my favorite album and the highlight of my trip. I like the lyrics and the vocals.




Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 19, 2017, 04:26:24 PM
If 15 big ones got a remix, people would understand why BW loves it. It’s pure BW in 1976! :bw


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on October 19, 2017, 04:57:34 PM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

From a recent interview.. http://www.jambands.com/features/2017/09/15/brian-wilson-s-enduring-pet-sounds/


Would you consider that a peak?
In 1976 we recorded the 15 Big Ones album. That was the highlight. That was my favorite album and the highlight of my trip. I like the lyrics and the vocals.




Is it just me or is that the nicest thing Brian's said about Mike since C50 ended?  Of course he had a reason to be extremely upset, but interesting because he said in 2015, I think, that he didn't want to do another BB tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: tpesky on October 19, 2017, 07:20:21 PM
Sounds like some competition, if Mike's doing it Brian's going to keep doing it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 19, 2017, 09:50:28 PM
What’s that boom gif guitarfool posted? >:D

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5CHAJMbkRpk/hqdefault.jpg)

Boom! Understand?  ;D

Not the gif/loop...I made that meself...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 19, 2017, 10:00:11 PM
Time for Brian to gracefully bow out of concert performing....This is starting to get embarrassing.....

Man, I’ve responded to you countless times in your time here, and I’ve never once gotten a response. When you grow the balls to actually reply to people who challenge your rather pitiful and moronic opinions I really hope you put a little more thought into it than you do with these drive-by potshots.

Also, the more you troll here the more likely leadership is going to ban your ass...and it would be a shame for you to have to find a new proxy through your VPN to scatter these jackass posts here. Might I suggest you either join the conversation instead of lobbing these petulant posts and ignoring the responses. Or just stick with posting your dbag opinion on the PS Forum.

Remember: Barba non facit philosophum.

Or in that case... "Barba non facit aliam historici"


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 20, 2017, 06:22:18 AM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

From a recent interview.. http://www.jambands.com/features/2017/09/15/brian-wilson-s-enduring-pet-sounds/


Would you consider that a peak?
In 1976 we recorded the 15 Big Ones album. That was the highlight. That was my favorite album and the highlight of my trip. I like the lyrics and the vocals.




Is it just me or is that the nicest thing Brian's said about Mike since C50 ended?  Of course he had a reason to be extremely upset, but interesting because he said in 2015, I think, that he didn't want to do another BB tour.

Brian has complimented Mike in interviews numerous times since C50 ended. I don't think Brian has really said anything negative about Mike. Brian has said in more recent years he doesn't see doing another BB tour/project, but he has never gone negative on Mike and has praised him on numerous occasions much more directly than the above 15BO comment. 
 
2013 "Rock Cellar" interview with Brian:

Well, Mike had music ideas besides lyrics. So he helped me out with the music and his lyrics were really really creative. Some of my favorite Mike lyrics are California Girls, Good Vibrations and Do it Again was another great one that we wrote. I also like Warmth of the Sun. that was a very sweet and sorrowful song.

2016 "Harvard Business Review" interview with Brian:

Mike Love wrote great lyrics, very fast, and I liked that in those days.

These are just two examples, but there are many similar comments from Brian in interviews post-C50. There was even one interview where Brian was particularly complimentary of Mike and it worked so well that Mike posted the interview link on his Facebook page and, as I recall, seemed to be happy to have his ego stroked and said something like "Thanks Bri, right back at ya!"; something along those lines. I remember finding it amusing that in order to stop getting Mike to go negative, it required such a heavy ego stroke.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on October 20, 2017, 06:35:44 AM
This thought just occurred to me: what if the rock and roll album is 15 Big Ones, Volume 2?

From a recent interview.. http://www.jambands.com/features/2017/09/15/brian-wilson-s-enduring-pet-sounds/


Would you consider that a peak?
In 1976 we recorded the 15 Big Ones album. That was the highlight. That was my favorite album and the highlight of my trip. I like the lyrics and the vocals.




Is it just me or is that the nicest thing Brian's said about Mike since C50 ended?  Of course he had a reason to be extremely upset, but interesting because he said in 2015, I think, that he didn't want to do another BB tour.

Brian has complimented Mike in interviews numerous times since C50 ended. I don't think Brian has really said anything negative about Mike. Brian has said in more recent years he doesn't see doing another BB tour/project, but he has never gone negative on Mike and has praised him on numerous occasions much more directly than the above 15BO comment. 
 
2013 "Rock Cellar" interview with Brian:

Well, Mike had music ideas besides lyrics. So he helped me out with the music and his lyrics were really really creative. Some of my favorite Mike lyrics are California Girls, Good Vibrations and Do it Again was another great one that we wrote. I also like Warmth of the Sun. that was a very sweet and sorrowful song.

2016 "Harvard Business Review" interview with Brian:

Mike Love wrote great lyrics, very fast, and I liked that in those days.

These are just two examples, but there are many similar comments from Brian in interviews post-C50. There was even one interview where Brian was particularly complimentary of Mike and it worked so well that Mike posted the interview link on his Facebook page and, as I recall, seemed to be happy to have his ego stroked and said something like "Thanks Bri, right back at ya!"; something along those lines. I remember finding it amusing that in order to stop getting Mike to go negative, it required such a heavy ego stroke.

I guess I haven't read that many interviews with Brian.   :)

Thanks Hey Jude.  Somewhat interesting to say the least. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 20, 2017, 10:27:52 AM
All I'll add is this: I offered a challenge on this board when the bullshit was getting *really* deep a few years ago for anyone to find and post a recent or even modern example of a negative comment Brian has made about Mike Love. Just one. To this present day, I don't believe anyone has stepped forward with one.

THAT says all you need to know. Then look at what has been said by Mike over the past several years. Case closed.

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.

I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it.

And a lot of the bullshit also came after I had been standing feet away from Brian at his keyboard when he introduced "I Get Around" by saying his cousin Mike sang it well, and hopefully he could do as good a job on the vocal as Mike did. So that's yet another unpublished example of praise I heard firsthand among everything else.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 20, 2017, 10:39:02 AM

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.


Before I say this, I should say that I'm really not an audiophile, but I did listen to NPP a lot in the spring and early summer of 2015, and the voices all sounds pretty clear to me.  Especially when you compare them to TWGMTR and that C50 live album


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on October 20, 2017, 10:52:25 AM
All I'll add is this: I offered a challenge on this board when the bullshit was getting *really* deep a few years ago for anyone to find and post a recent or even modern example of a negative comment Brian has made about Mike Love. Just one. To this present day, I don't believe anyone has stepped forward with one.

THAT says all you need to know. Then look at what has been said by Mike over the past several years. Case closed.

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.

I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it.

And a lot of the bullshit also came after I had been standing feet away from Brian at his keyboard when he introduced "I Get Around" by saying his cousin Mike sang it well, and hopefully he could do as good a job on the vocal as Mike did. So that's yet another unpublished example of praise I heard firsthand among everything else.

Being pretty new to the forum, I'm still trying to figure out what happened at the end of C50.  I've heard bits and pieces and am therefore responding to the little I know.  I therefore said I could understand why Brian would attack Mike, even though he hasn't, and think that his compliments are very kind and surprising saying all that (I think/assume) happened during 2012-2013. 

And I really loved this comment, guitarfool2002: "I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it. "

 :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 20, 2017, 11:22:38 AM
All I'll add is this: I offered a challenge on this board when the bullshit was getting *really* deep a few years ago for anyone to find and post a recent or even modern example of a negative comment Brian has made about Mike Love. Just one. To this present day, I don't believe anyone has stepped forward with one.

THAT says all you need to know. Then look at what has been said by Mike over the past several years. Case closed.

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.

I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it.

And a lot of the bullshit also came after I had been standing feet away from Brian at his keyboard when he introduced "I Get Around" by saying his cousin Mike sang it well, and hopefully he could do as good a job on the vocal as Mike did. So that's yet another unpublished example of praise I heard firsthand among everything else.

Being pretty new to the forum, I'm still trying to figure out what happened at the end of C50.  I've heard bits and pieces and am therefore responding to the little I know.  I therefore said I could understand why Brian would attack Mike, even though he hasn't, and think that his compliments are very kind and surprising saying all that (I think/assume) happened during 2012-2013. 

And I really loved this comment, guitarfool2002: "I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it. "

 :lol

It entails something that is sometimes a slog, but I would recommend reading through old threads/posts on this board regarding C50. In particular, check out posts on the subject from Howie Edelson, who did a great job of putting things in perspective.

You'll also see that Brian has, probably both because of his inherent nature and also because he has better PR people, not gone negative on Mike at all in recent years. Even in his one arguably acrimonious piece, which was his letter to the LA Times in Sep/Oct 2012, he didn't attack Mike. I think he was expressing how he (and Al) felt, which was disappointment and frustration over Mike walking away.

C50 is a different (though at times intertwined) issue compared to the more broad issue of what Mike and Brian say about each other in interviews. And the sad fact is that Mike has regularly gone negative, and even his kind comments about Brian are often backhanded or involve complimenting himself via complimenting Brian.

However much they did or didn't reveal about things like C50 in their respective autobiographies, the style and tone of each book provides a pretty good insight into their attitude. Mike is ready to go through a litany of reasons he was wronged. He's on the defensive and trying to pounce. Whereas, Brian is more like "meh, that's how Mike is, whatever..."


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 20, 2017, 03:41:42 PM
All I'll add is this: I offered a challenge on this board when the bullshit was getting *really* deep a few years ago for anyone to find and post a recent or even modern example of a negative comment Brian has made about Mike Love. Just one. To this present day, I don't believe anyone has stepped forward with one.

THAT says all you need to know. Then look at what has been said by Mike over the past several years. Case closed.

I also offered a challenge with the prize of a bottle of chilled white wine to someone who could pinpoint and post one of the "obnoxious" or overt uses of Autotune on NPP. I thought one guy was going to come though, but he found a millisecond of some digital or sonic residue on a track, then disappeared ostensibly to continue his search. He was apparently "too busy" to offer any examples and disappeared.

I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it.

And a lot of the bullshit also came after I had been standing feet away from Brian at his keyboard when he introduced "I Get Around" by saying his cousin Mike sang it well, and hopefully he could do as good a job on the vocal as Mike did. So that's yet another unpublished example of praise I heard firsthand among everything else.

Being pretty new to the forum, I'm still trying to figure out what happened at the end of C50.  I've heard bits and pieces and am therefore responding to the little I know.  I therefore said I could understand why Brian would attack Mike, even though he hasn't, and think that his compliments are very kind and surprising saying all that (I think/assume) happened during 2012-2013. 

And I really loved this comment, guitarfool2002: "I ended up drinking the wine myself after the time lapsed into months where no one seemed able to find and post such an example. It was good wine, and I enjoyed it. "

 :lol

It entails something that is sometimes a slog, but I would recommend reading through old threads/posts on this board regarding C50. In particular, check out posts on the subject from Howie Edelson, who did a great job of putting things in perspective.

You'll also see that Brian has, probably both because of his inherent nature and also because he has better PR people, not gone negative on Mike at all in recent years. Even in his one arguably acrimonious piece, which was his letter to the LA Times in Sep/Oct 2012, he didn't attack Mike. I think he was expressing how he (and Al) felt, which was disappointment and frustration over Mike walking away.

C50 is a different (though at times intertwined) issue compared to the more broad issue of what Mike and Brian say about each other in interviews. And the sad fact is that Mike has regularly gone negative, and even his kind comments about Brian are often backhanded or involve complimenting himself via complimenting Brian.

However much they did or didn't reveal about things like C50 in their respective autobiographies, the style and tone of each book provides a pretty good insight into their attitude. Mike is ready to go through a litany of reasons he was wronged. He's on the defensive and trying to pounce. Whereas, Brian is more like "meh, that's how Mike is, whatever..."

The only perspective really necessary in my opinion is the unfiltered truth of how C50 ended. Mike pulled the plug when the demand from fans and the industry in general was as high as it's been for anything - and I repeat *anything* new from "The Beach Boys" in decades. Mike booked a show at a venue called "Nutty Jerry's" that led to Nutty Jerry's canceling the booking because they and their local ticket buyers were confused as to which Beach Boys lineup they were going to be presenting. When the confusion became clear that it was Mike's band and not the Beach Boys who were still on the road for C50, they backed out. And in subsequent press releases and statements, there was still confusion as to what happened. And for the talk of Mike booking other shows for his band, I've raised the point before that all which was on the books when C50 was ongoing was a random show in South America, as well as a charity show at a California country club or winery which was done almost immediately after Mike and Bruce flew back from the final UK C50 shows, Stamos joined them, and there were comments from audience members that they thought they would be seeing the full C50 lineup and got instead Mike's lineup.

And the perspective too comes from the press releases in the wake of Mike's announcement around the Grammy event, where Mike or his PR staff gave at least one or several reasons to the press that soon were replaced by other reasons, and when Mike's book came around even more reasons beyond that. Mike's initial release mentioned The Eagles and not wanting to overstay their welcome to where tickets would be selling for 5 bucks like Eagles tickets, which led to a pretty bitter reply from The Eagles' camp.

It was a mess.

From fans' perspectives, the band was back together with all surviving original members from the 60's including Bruce, and Mike instead chose to return to his Mike-and-Bruce lineup after Brian, Al, and David said they wanted to extend the touring because they were enjoying it...and also wanted to make more new music. But Mike chose not to. Despite the concert booking industry calling for more shows after the tour exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations and was a big draw with high demand. The album went top 5 too.

Mike claimed the tour was losing money in his book. And he gave an interview where he slagged off on the album despite it cracking not just the top 100 but the top 5 on the charts.

The Wilsons gave a dinner party to celebrate the last UK shows at a restaurant for all the band members and crew. Mike's band was there, Brian's band, Al, David, wives, friends, people from the behind the scenes staff and crew...

...and Mike and Bruce didn't show up. The picture of that dinner with everyone breaking bread and celebrating minus Mike and Bruce is a true example of "a picture is worth a thousand words".

So there it was. And maybe that picture of that specific moment is enough perspective to last a lifetime.

And in terms of this particular forum's perspective as well as all of those related including those which have since died on the vine, the fans were behind C50 almost 100% and were happy to see the guys back together playing live AND with a new album. After Mike's decision, the forums turned into what felt like an attempt in some circles to reverse all the negative publicity and opinion directed at Mike, and there were blatant if not laughable attempts to whitewash or rewrite history and fact by offering talking points like "set end date" and trying to shut down any discussion if it turned the spotlight on Mike's decision.

Then it got fun. The defense of Mike and attempts to deflect the negativity turned into attempts to trash the Wilsons, and Brian regarding any new offering or tour he was putting out. When that failed, the attempts turned toward controlling the forums by bullying posters who dared say something about Mike that was less than a toe'ing of the line (whoever determined that line), up to sending messages off the board which led to several leaving.

Maybe the nadir was when an interview with Mike came out, he was quoted in his own words, and I guess short of being able to defend what the man actually said the defense (and defenders) suggested Mike had been misquoted. Or that we didn't take his words as he meant them. Or that some other totally ridiculous reason was in play versus what the guy actually said.

So...that was that. If anything C50 brought people together, and whatever attempts were undertaken by Mike's more loyal and vocal defenders and fans to whitewash and help do damage control in the wake of C50 ended up causing a lot of outright hate to come to these places and infect them. C50 wasn't the starting point, as other grudges and agendas were already in place, but it brought it into the fan discussion realm and basically blew it to bits.

If I never see nor hear the phrase "set end date" for the rest of my life on this planet, it wouldn't be long enough.

C50 was positive for everyone except, it would seem, Mike Love. And it was his call which led to him getting exactly what he wanted. He's currently leading his band still touring incessantly and releasing autotuned BB's remakes with Mark McGrath. And his most insufferable fans and mouthpieces and defenders are still doing their same routines. Fun stuff!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 21, 2017, 06:07:31 AM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 21, 2017, 10:31:59 PM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 
If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Kid Presentable on October 22, 2017, 01:33:24 AM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 

This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 22, 2017, 09:07:08 AM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 

This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on October 22, 2017, 09:14:51 AM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler.  

 

This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time
If this "place" is so friggin' toxic (which it certainly is NOT), then why the hell are you here??


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on October 22, 2017, 02:36:11 PM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 

This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...

GF - everything you said on this thread is clear and accurate.  Re:  the recurring troll/trolls, as a writer, I keep finding the same one-note, hateful little voice with a lot of IP addresses.  Happily, it no longer annoys me.  It's just boring.  Little loser/s begging for attention.  Ignoring them is the best approach, I think.  No one actually cares what they think here, as far as I can tell.  I certainly don't.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 22, 2017, 03:08:06 PM
Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
«Kid Presentable  Reply #52 on: Today at 01:33:24 AM »
   
"This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time."

1:33:24 AM?  What happened?  You get kicked out of bed?  Not my problem.  Sad to see that YOU'RE 'Love-less' too.  Small world.  Wheel and come again with your next 'presentation'.  Quote 'Mike'.  I did.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 22, 2017, 03:35:36 PM
If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.

Not so sure about that.  Dirty Mickey keeps signing contracts which all have to be honoured.  I'll bet he's got em signed into 2019 already.  AND...it's income.  They don't have to like him to benefit from him financially.  Maybe there's some 'nourishment and revenge' being re-directed right back at him.  Yo...Hat Boy.  You keep touring 'til you're at least 80.  Just keep sending the cheques.   In fact do 200 shows next year.  Oh and those shirts you wear?  Nifty. :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Wirestone on October 22, 2017, 06:49:21 PM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 
If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.

Unless you have a copy of the license at hand, I’d wager you don’t have a fucking clue on this subject.

Earlier threads have established that Mike’s license is essentially non-revocable, unless he gives the other BRI members some explicit cause to take it away.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 22, 2017, 07:41:34 PM
Incredible to think that around 98 the parties signed a contract with a time period of 20 years and counting. At the time I seriously doubt anyone thought this train would still be rolling.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Kid Presentable on October 23, 2017, 12:20:47 AM
That's a nice creepy reply, add some, good for you.  What makes you think I live anywhere near Pacific Standard Time?
To the others, I had a long reply typed up but decided that I don't want to put the energy into what will just be hijacking this thread.  If you actually care to read why I think this place is super toxic you can tell me where to take the discussion instead. 
I expect to see more replies from what I assume are otherwise reliable democrats, giving me some form of the 'Murica Love It Or Leave It argument.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 23, 2017, 10:56:11 AM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 
If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.

Unless you have a copy of the license at hand, I’d wager you don’t have a fucking clue on this subject.

Earlier threads have established that Mike’s license is essentially non-revocable, unless he gives the other BRI members some explicit cause to take it away.

Pretty much.

I think the best way to put it is that it would be hugely impractical to try to revoke the license. The move *could* be made, but it would be tied up in litigation for the rest of their lives, certainly the rest of their feasible touring life (even assuming they all can tour into their 80s). And that "move" would be hard to muster the support for.

Setting aside the "they don't want to kick the hornet's nest" factor (which is maybe above all else why nothing has or would ever happen in terms of trying to revoke the license), what other factors are at play?

On the front end of things, are the votes there? Carl's estate (which I've been led to believe means mainly Jonah and Justyn in terms of who makes the calls/votes, etc.) has almost *never* sided against Mike on any issue as far as I know. And it makes sense; they have no personal stake in things. They're not potentially in or out of the band. With the touring license, it's a choice between being cut a nice free check, or no check. There are other internal BRI issues that would involve more long-term artistic/longevity/branding decisions (e.g. firing up a huge archival program). But when it comes to the touring license, it's easy free money for them.

I don't think Brian (or even Al) want to use the BB name themselves, so that takes away motivation right there on their part.

What's left? Taking away the license just to "make a point" would be about it, and Mike could make the argument (both practically and maybe even legally using legal theories including "laches") that he's been left to own devices using the name for almost 20 years and they don't have any justification to change things.

It may not be so much that they gave Mike a literally "irrevocable" license (they'd have to have *horrible* lawyers to not have put in riders covering extreme things like Mike being convicted of a crime, etc.). But it may be that even if they gathered the 3 votes to take it away, Mike could sue BRI and argue that they're all voting against the *corporation's* best interests. And financially that would sadly be true, as there would be no "replacement" if Mike's band were pulled off the market.

The only exception to all of that would be to pull the license to essentially force a reunion, and I don't think anybody feels that's a good idea.

But yes, we need to dispel the hugely inaccurate assertion that Brian or Al (or both collectively, or even both along with Carl's estate) could "easily" revoke Mike's license.

As things stand now, I think Brian and Al both tolerate it and prefer it only to the alternative of paying a ton of money to litigate it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Dove Nested Towers on October 23, 2017, 12:19:28 PM
Unfortunately, almost everything is at least somewhat toxic these days. I hope and pray it will all pass.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on October 23, 2017, 12:26:14 PM
That's a nice creepy reply, add some, good for you.  What makes you think I live anywhere near Pacific Standard Time?
To the others, I had a long reply typed up but decided that I don't want to put the energy into what will just be hijacking this thread.  If you actually care to read why I think this place is super toxic you can tell me where to take the discussion instead. 
I expect to see more replies from what I assume are otherwise reliable democrats, giving me some form of the 'Murica Love It Or Leave It argument.

Ya...It was kind of weak.  That's all I had.  Sorry.  But then you didn't offer up much to begin with...now did you?  If you bothered to do any reading or research you would know that 'he' only reaps what he's sewn.  Grim ain't it?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on October 24, 2017, 03:36:54 PM
Not fun at all G.F.  Many...not all...but many [myself included] decided to put a LOT of the old bullshit/the old MIKE bullshit in line with the rear-view mirror when TWGMTR and the reunion tour came together.  And then?  WTF!??!??!??!  And the chatter on line became increasingly more and More and MORE ridiculous.  And as 'chrome dome'/'hat boy' kept piling on in every G.D.'d interview...it reached the point where it was plainly obvious that virtually EVERY complaint about Love-less was indeed valid and verified.

There are No pictures of him in the Beach Boys section at BW dot calm.  [No pics of him save for the monkey in the hat in the Pet Sounds souvenir tour program either.]  As a Beach Boy...with those who COUNT he is a non entity.  He is, in actual fact, the leader of a tribute band who should merely be called the Beached Boys...'cause that's ALL they are.  Revenge and nourishment?  How's that workin' out for ya mickey...you ungrateful 1/2 miler. 
If the other BB's really feel that way about Mike, they could easily revoke his touring license.

Unless you have a copy of the license at hand, I’d wager you don’t have a fucking clue on this subject.

Earlier threads have established that Mike’s license is essentially non-revocable, unless he gives the other BRI members some explicit cause to take it away.

At least these comments keep threads going.  I think it's safe to say that anyone who knows what happens when the BB's vote, or the last time they actually voted on anything or why, is only known by a few people, and they're not about to talk.  "Easily revoked licence?"  That's pretty funny - that much is obvious from past comments and events - whether any of them still care? We don't know at this point.  Brian, Al and Blondie, when they wish to tour, obviously do very well, and they don't need the BB's license, just Brian's name.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SamMcK on October 24, 2017, 05:11:19 PM
BRI License stuff aside I doubt anyone considered Brian (or any of the Beach Boys for that matter) would still be touring in 2017/2018, considering its almost been 2 whole decades since the loss of Carl and a whopping 34 years since Dennis died. :o

Let's be honest though, as long as we get new Brian Wilson music that's all that matters at this point. Sure, I miss Mike and Bruce in the harmony stack, (but much prefer Matt's falsetto to Jeff) but Mike has been creatively spent for years regardless.

I've seen Brian five times since 2010, and new music is all I desire at this point (with or without Mike or Bruce) As long as Brian's in a good and creative place, all is good.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Mr. Wilson on October 24, 2017, 08:55:16 PM
Ya know there is a famous interview with DW back in 70"s that he said the BB will be touring when we get old and in wheel chairs..!!  the previous post reminded me of that interview.. LOL


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 24, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
BRI License stuff aside I doubt anyone considered Brian (or any of the Beach Boys for that matter) would still be touring in 2017/2018, considering its almost been 2 whole decades since the loss of Carl and a whopping 34 years since Dennis died. :o

Let's be honest though, as long as we get new Brian Wilson music that's all that matters at this point. Sure, I miss Mike and Bruce in the harmony stack, (but much prefer Matt's falsetto to Jeff) but Mike has been creatively spent for years regardless.

I've seen Brian five times since 2010, and new music is all I desire at this point (with or without Mike or Bruce) As long as Brian's in a good and creative place, all is good.
New music? Really? Most fans just want the same old songs from decades ago at this point.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 25, 2017, 06:23:10 AM
BRI License stuff aside I doubt anyone considered Brian (or any of the Beach Boys for that matter) would still be touring in 2017/2018, considering its almost been 2 whole decades since the loss of Carl and a whopping 34 years since Dennis died. :o

Let's be honest though, as long as we get new Brian Wilson music that's all that matters at this point. Sure, I miss Mike and Bruce in the harmony stack, (but much prefer Matt's falsetto to Jeff) but Mike has been creatively spent for years regardless.

I've seen Brian five times since 2010, and new music is all I desire at this point (with or without Mike or Bruce) As long as Brian's in a good and creative place, all is good.
New music? Really? Most fans just want the same old songs from decades ago at this point.

Casual fans and non-fans with a passing interest may only be interested in the same old songs.

But the hardcore fan base and indie crowd, which comprises a good hunk of Brian's audience (not so much Mike's), *are* interested in new music from Brian as well as old deep cuts and the release of interesting archival material.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 25, 2017, 06:34:48 AM
Regarding how long the BBs at various points in their history anticipated continuing to tour, I like to occasionally remind folks of what Elliott Lott claimed regarding Mike back in 1999:

“Mike has maybe five years of touring left"

Here's the full article: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25340.0.html

Now, I think it's pretty clear Lott was saying this primarily to bolster his argument that Al touring in 1999 was somehow taking away a very finite amount of touring revenue that Mike was generating. I personally don't buy that Lott really thought Mike was going to be retired by 2004. But it's interesting to note that they probably didn't see the longevity of all of these guys touring into 2017.

Also, here's Mike from a 1993 interview:

Within the next five years I think I'll be doing something else. As a matter of fact a TM guru told me recently that I was destined to start a big world TM center in Northern California and that my true vocation in life was that. He said the band was just a prelude to my spiritual destiny, my life as a teacher of TM.

So in 1993 Mike envisioned possibly being done with touring by 1998.

Not to digress too much, but let us also not forget Mike's comments in 1992 regarding the idea of writing an autobiography:

So I guess there's no chance for a book?

Who would want to take the fucking time to go through garbage like that just to rectify garbage.




Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 25, 2017, 06:45:43 AM
Goldmine is the greatest Mike interview :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: tpesky on October 25, 2017, 05:12:46 PM
The Mike quote about doing something different is interesting. I think when Mike started to get more control around the time of Carl's illness and eventually full control, that may have changed his mind about touring since it was on his terms now.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on October 25, 2017, 11:49:27 PM
The Mike quote about doing something different is interesting. I think when Mike started to get more control around the time of Carl's illness and eventually full control, that may have changed his mind about touring since it was on his terms now.
Yeah, things may have worked out differently if Carl was still alive and Al couldn't be kicked out of the band.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on October 26, 2017, 01:55:52 AM

Unfortunately, almost everything is at least somewhat toxic these days. I hope and pray it will all pass.


Dove Nested Towers, thanks for the best post in this thread thus far.

Had a couple of beers earlier this evening, (including the outstanding Four Peaks Kilt Lifter), at  the SD Gulls vs the Sacramento ice hockey game, and decided to check this thread, for the first time, when I got home. After reading for awhile I realized I needed some libations to get me through the rest of the thread, with the result that I'm now on my third Manhattan. (For those into the finer aspects of those libations, all included a mix of either Jack Daniels Old No. 7, Jack Daniels Rye, or a combo of the two, along with Carpano Antiqua Formula Vermouth and Martini & Rossi Rosso Vermouth, with both Angustora Bitters and Angustora Orange Bitters, and with with either Amarena Toschi Black Cherries or Luxardo Maraschino Cherries.)

But back to this thread - I've been a fan of the BBs (although to a somewhat minor extent initially) since I first head Surin' on the radio in late 1961. So Dove Nested Towers post of, "Unfortunately, almost everything is at least somewhat toxic these days. I hope and pray it will all pass." most accurately expresses my sentiments.

As BW said, we could all use some Love and Mercy today. (And/or tonight, as the case may be.)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Curt Lambert on October 27, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on October 27, 2017, 10:17:01 AM
Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.

That would be great! I'd love to attend! Hopefully, they'd include a few songs from Brian's Christmas album, as well.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 27, 2017, 10:20:25 AM
Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.

If true, I would hope they get it going and tickets on sale soon. There have been a few instances in past years when tickets went on sale for a show on very short notice, soon after a previous tour had ended, where tickets didn't move very fast.

I'd also wonder if they'd really be doing the entire BB Christmas album front-to-back as opposed to selections. That would certainly be intriguing.

I'm excited to see Brian tackle a full non-PS show with the same zeal he has seemed to have lately on the opening set of shows. The BB XMas album also has a good amount of leads that would be in Brian's range. It would be fun to see him energetically sing "Santa's Beard" and stuff like that.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 27, 2017, 10:22:47 AM
Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.

That would be great! I'd love to attend! Hopefully, they'd include a few songs from Brian's Christmas album, as well.

I quite like Brian's arrangement of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen." But if they actually did the full BB Xmas album (a lot of ifs going on here of course), that would probably suffice for XMas content in the show.

Now, the big question is, would Al replicate his weird voice as heard on the original '77 version of "Bells of Christmas."  :3d


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 10:40:01 AM
For this upcoming Christmas season??   That would be really cool, but I was hoping for a Nov-Dec 2018 Xmas Tour. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 27, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
For this upcoming Christmas season??   That would be really cool, but I was hoping for a Nov-Dec 2018 Xmas Tour. 

Meh, who knows where Brian, or Al, or any of us will be a year from now. If Brian has the enthusiasm to tour behind it right now, I say go for it. If it's successful, they can always do it again next year.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 27, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on October 27, 2017, 10:50:41 AM
I quite like Brian's arrangement of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen." But if they actually did the full BB Xmas album (a lot of ifs going on here of course), that would probably suffice for XMas content in the show.

Yeah, that's why I settled for "a few", at most. But if it's billed as a "Holiday Show" they could get away with mixing a song or two into the non-Christmas album set (or the Christmas album set, for that matter). I'd be glad to hear just about any of those songs, including the bonus track, On Christmas Day. I'd miss Taylor's vocals in the blend on that material, though. One song I wouldn't be as excited about is Deck The Halls...I wonder if they'd feel somewhat obligated to perform that one since it was released as a single and was a top 10 AC hit. I suppose not. Who knows?

Now, the big question is, would Al replicate his weird voice as heard on the original '77 version of "Bells of Christmas."  :3d

Or maybe a Child-of-Winter-Brian sighting? He could incorporate it into a song of his choosing  ;D

For this upcoming Christmas season??   That would be really cool, but I was hoping for a Nov-Dec 2018 Xmas Tour.  

Why wait? But, yeah, I'd be glad whenever it happened. If it happens.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 27, 2017, 11:07:06 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

I recall maybe at least a small portion of why Brian's XMas album was lowkey in terms of performance was that it, if I'm recalling correctly, got caught up in Sony's huge case of biffing it with that "rootkit" issue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

I'm not even 100% sure if anyone determined for sure that Brian's CD was impacted as some others were. But that whole ordeal certainly didn't help the album, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
For this upcoming Christmas season??   That would be really cool, but I was hoping for a Nov-Dec 2018 Xmas Tour. 

Meh, who knows where Brian, or Al, or any of us will be a year from now. If Brian has the enthusiasm to tour behind it right now, I say go for it. If it's successful, they can always do it again next year.

I'd love to see it either way, this coming Christmas season is bad for me schedule wise.   :(


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 11:14:17 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

I've heard a couple tracks from it on one of my Christmas Pandora channels, but never on the FM Christmas station here.   I agree 100% it's an overlooked Christmas classic. 

I'd at least like to see it put back on the shelves each year to sit at Walmart and Target alongside the classic Xmas albums by Bing, Elvis, Sinatra, TSO, and various comps for $5-$7 a pop.   Considering the renewed interest in BW since the release, I'm sure it would make an easy impulse buy "Brian Wilson put out a Christmas album?   And he does Oh Holy Night and God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman? "


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 27, 2017, 11:14:47 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

I recall maybe at least a small portion of why Brian's XMas album was lowkey in terms of performance was that it, if I'm recalling correctly, got caught up in Sony's huge case of biffing it with that "rootkit" issue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

I'm not even 100% sure if anyone determined for sure that Brian's CD was impacted as some others were. But that whole ordeal certainly didn't help the album, that's for sure.

I don't remember that rootkit controversy being much of a factor or an issue with the album's sales at least if fan discussions were any gauge, but I do remember there were a lot of pretty blatant attempts among trolls and the like to slag off on the album, to the point where if my memory serves, Brian posted an exclusive Christmas audio track, some started making idiotic comments, and Brian got truly pissed off to the point where he posted a reply to them in no uncertain terms. And when it got into people slamming the cover as "clip art" and saying it wasn't rock-and-roll enough for Brian, it turned out to be among the usual rabble-rousers of the sort who have been saying Brian should throw in the towel and retire from playing shows and making music since 1999 or so. But, of course, make sure to go see Mike's band... ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on October 27, 2017, 11:17:08 AM
I recall hearing a few of the "new" Xmas songs (e.g. the title track) from Brian's XMas album in past years at drug stores and places like that. It has often played right alongside Carnie and Wendy's "Hey Santa."


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 27, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

I've heard a couple tracks from it on one of my Christmas Pandora channels, but never on the FM Christmas station here.   I agree 100% it's an overlooked Christmas classic. 

I'd at least like to see it put back on the shelves each year to sit at Walmart and Target alongside the classic Xmas albums by Bing, Elvis, Sinatra, TSO, and various comps for $5-$7 a pop.   Considering the renewed interest in BW since the release, I'm sure it would make an easy impulse buy "Brian Wilson put out a Christmas album?   And he does Oh Holy Night and God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman? "

Exactly! All it would take would be a little push and some old-fashioned record plugging to get this back onto the shelves and into some playlists. I agree, those bins of Christmas albums at the retail stores are a great way to get some classic Christmas music, in fact that's where I got my treasured "Ventures Christmas Album" CD for something like 4.99 many years ago...among others.

I like that idea, whatever it takes to get people to listen to this music is fair game, it just has to be put into motion from the top.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 11:23:06 AM
Brian's Christmas album is one I've been pushing for to get a re-release and a revisit ASAP, because it truly is a great holiday album if you're into that kind of thing like me. I think it got overlooked when it was first released, apart from the usual idiots making the usual idiotic comments, but man...when I listen to it, the album holds up really well and it seems to have gotten better with time.

It's not only worthy of but due for a revisit/reevaluation if not a full campaign to start getting some airplay for these tracks on the various Christmas channels and stations which will be cranking up soon.

That can happen if it's pushed and plugged hard enough. A tour would be even better if they had the product to tour in support of readily available.

I've heard a couple tracks from it on one of my Christmas Pandora channels, but never on the FM Christmas station here.   I agree 100% it's an overlooked Christmas classic. 

I'd at least like to see it put back on the shelves each year to sit at Walmart and Target alongside the classic Xmas albums by Bing, Elvis, Sinatra, TSO, and various comps for $5-$7 a pop.   Considering the renewed interest in BW since the release, I'm sure it would make an easy impulse buy "Brian Wilson put out a Christmas album?   And he does Oh Holy Night and God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman? "

Exactly! All it would take would be a little push and some old-fashioned record plugging to get this back onto the shelves and into some playlists. I agree, those bins of Christmas albums at the retail stores are a great way to get some classic Christmas music, in fact that's where I got my treasured "Ventures Christmas Album" CD for something like 4.99 many years ago...among others.

I like that idea, whatever it takes to get people to listen to this music is fair game, it just has to be put into motion from the top.

Oddly enough, in recent years, I haven't even seen the Beach Boys Christmas album in the Christmas CD bins (although, one of those knockoffs with like 8-9 tracks from it are often there). 

But, heck, if Twisted Sister can have a Christmas album that shifts a bunch of copies, there's no reason Brian Wilson can't.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 27, 2017, 11:23:23 AM
I want a BW Christmas show in my area! :afro


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 27, 2017, 11:29:11 AM
I'd make it a point to try to go to a BW Christmas show! I've never had a chance to see him play any of the Christmas tunes live, if they did a full set that would be amazing.

Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 11:32:52 AM
I'd make it a point to try to go to a BW Christmas show! I've never had a chance to see him play any of the Christmas tunes live, if they did a full set that would be amazing.

Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.

I'll have to listen for it this year, but I think the FM Christmas music channel in Baltimore still pays the single version of Little St Nick, but unfortunately, they seem to play far fewer tracks from the BB Xmas than they used to.   In the past it wasn't uncommon to hear just about any of the original songs or Frosty the Snowman.  Now, I only hear Little St Nick and Frosty. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 27, 2017, 11:38:42 AM
I'd make it a point to try to go to a BW Christmas show! I've never had a chance to see him play any of the Christmas tunes live, if they did a full set that would be amazing.

Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.

I'll have to listen for it this year, but I think the FM Christmas music channel in Baltimore still pays the single version of Little St Nick, but unfortunately, they seem to play far fewer tracks from the BB Xmas than they used to.   In the past it wasn't uncommon to hear just about any of the original songs or Frosty the Snowman.  Now, I only hear Little St Nick and Frosty.  

The programming of these playlists can be a mystery. In Philly last year both the Oldies station and the all-Christmas FM station seemed to be spinning the lesser album mix, yet we were still getting at least 4 other tracks from the Christmas album (one was even using Man With All The Toys as a bumper/promo spot), and also playing The Wilsons (which is another Christmas album that grows better with age).

Frustrating too is how they jump on trends, like "All I Want For Christmas Is You". The original Mariah Carey cut was a stone-cold classic, as good as a tribute to the Spector holiday album's sound as anything I've heard never mind that it was a commercial hit. Yet they replaced that great track with one where Justin Beiber added new vocals with Mariah that were the same effect as putting ketchup and French's yellow mustard on top of a perfect cut of filet mignon, done medium rare. It adds nothing to the original and is ultimately fatuous. Yet, there's Beiber wailing "oohhhh, oh, ohhh, ohhhhh" instead of the fantastic original.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on October 27, 2017, 11:55:48 AM
I'd make it a point to try to go to a BW Christmas show! I've never had a chance to see him play any of the Christmas tunes live, if they did a full set that would be amazing.

Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.

I'll have to listen for it this year, but I think the FM Christmas music channel in Baltimore still pays the single version of Little St Nick, but unfortunately, they seem to play far fewer tracks from the BB Xmas than they used to.   In the past it wasn't uncommon to hear just about any of the original songs or Frosty the Snowman.  Now, I only hear Little St Nick and Frosty.  

The programming of these playlists can be a mystery. In Philly last year both the Oldies station and the all-Christmas FM station seemed to be spinning the lesser album mix, yet we were still getting at least 4 other tracks from the Christmas album (one was even using Man With All The Toys as a bumper/promo spot), and also playing The Wilsons (which is another Christmas album that grows better with age).

Frustrating too is how they jump on trends, like "All I Want For Christmas Is You". The original Mariah Carey cut was a stone-cold classic, as good as a tribute to the Spector holiday album's sound as anything I've heard never mind that it was a commercial hit. Yet they replaced that great track with one where Justin Beiber added new vocals with Mariah that were the same effect as putting ketchup and French's yellow mustard on top of a perfect cut of filet mignon, done medium rare. It adds nothing to the original and is ultimately fatuous. Yet, there's Beiber wailing "oohhhh, oh, ohhh, ohhhhh" instead of the fantastic original.

Right, kinda Carrie Underwood's Do You Hear What I Hear, which I think is a poor man's version of the Whitney Houston cover, which replaced the definitive (IMO) Bing Crosby version.   

One of the reasons that, in recent years, I've been sticking to my Xmas CD collection which includes a lot of spins of BW, TSO, The Beach Boys, and Blackmore's Night. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jonathan Blum on October 27, 2017, 10:47:41 PM
I don’t think any tracks from the Gershwin record were performed aside from the full album shows, and none of the Disney songs were performed.

FWIW, there were a few shows in Australia where they did a Gershwin mini-set -- four songs IIRC, but I can only specifically remember "Rhapsody" (*breathtaking* with the full band acapella) and "They Can't Take That Away From Me".  I think they did a few other shows with those up over!

Far as I'm aware, he's never done the Disney album.

Cheers,
Jon Blum


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on October 28, 2017, 12:36:04 AM
I would absolutely love to see a BW Christmas concert. I see Brian and band, as well as the touring BBs, whenever I get the chance. As much as I love Pet Sounds, and was ecstatic when I first saw Brian play the album in it's entirety years ago, I actually got tired of hearing the entire PS album the last couple times I saw BW in concert, and I had the impression that Brian was rather tired of performing the entire album as well.


Related note, I don't know why but the Christmas radio stations seem to have shifted to the "album" version of Little Saint Nick instead of the better and more exciting "single" mix, and I don't know why or how that decision was made. The single version/mix *kills* the album version especially as the percussion and chimes/mallets parts cut through the speakers no matter where you hear it.


Absolutely! The single version of Little Saint Nick with the chimes, mallets, and sleigh bells is far better than the album version.

I've got six different Beach Boys Christmas CDs. Of those six CDs, Little St. Nick is found in its mono single version on four, the stereo album version on two, and a stereo version of the original single on two. But my favorite mix of the Little St. Nick single version is not found on any Beach Boys CD releases, appearing only on the 1992 EMI CD Legends of Christmas Past, which was the first time the single version appeared in stereo. The 1992 stereo version of the single was remastered by Kevin Reeves and features the vocals in stereo, whereas the 1998 stereo version of the single (on Ultimate Christmas and Christmas with the Beach Boys) features the vocals in mono.

(And for the sake of completeness I'll add that two of these six CDs, Ultimate Christmas and Christmas with the BBs are virtually identical, with one less track on the latter CD. Then there's The Beach Boys Christmas Album with and without bonus tracks, and a budget release of same missing two tracks. And I've got two versions of Christmas Harmonies, with the original white cover and the later light green cover. A couple of years ago I also purchased The Beach Boys' Christmas Album - Cardboard Sleeve - High-Definition Deluxe Replica, Collector's Edition, Limited Edition, Import, Remastered. It looked very cool, containing a red CD with a small Capitol rainbow label, but there was no way it was a "High Definition Deluxe Replica" -  instead it was an overmodulated distorted mess, which I returned to Amazon.)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jonathan Blum on October 28, 2017, 12:42:36 AM
This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...

...Well, all I'm going to say is, postings like this -- and the next half dozen or so variations on "How dare you say this place is toxic!  F*** off!" -- don't give me much of a sense that the place has really chilled out, and that's why I check in so rarely these days.

Sorry,
Jon Blum


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on October 28, 2017, 05:20:25 AM
Accentuate the positive like me :3d, then ANY place will stop being toxic. :police:


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SCaroline Z on October 28, 2017, 07:01:18 AM
I want a BW Christmas show in my area! :afro

Me too! I doubt it would happen in that short space of time, but I would consider traveling stateside for this depending on the date and location.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on October 28, 2017, 08:28:47 PM
This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...

...Well, all I'm going to say is, postings like this -- and the next half dozen or so variations on "How dare you say this place is toxic!  F*** off!" -- don't give me much of a sense that the place has really chilled out, and that's why I check in so rarely these days.

Sorry,
Jon Blum

Sorry to hear you feel that way Jon, I just hope you've considered and heard all sides and understand exactly what happened prior to forming those opinions and posting them. All of it is archived.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on October 29, 2017, 11:41:05 AM
This place is crazy toxic, from top to bottom, over a long period of time

And let me guess...it would be less toxic if negativity and criticism directed at Mike Love would be censored and scrubbed off the board?

This notion that this forum is "toxic" has been tried and failed - especially since the efforts to f*** this place over flopped miserably, mostly due to the massive egos and ineptness of the people who tried. But knowing in which circles and what specific people use the word "toxic" in similar ways, not just about this place but the people here too...they should look in the mirror before labeling something or someone toxic.

Want examples of the real toxicity that infected this place? The cup runneth over with 'em...

...Well, all I'm going to say is, postings like this -- and the next half dozen or so variations on "How dare you say this place is toxic!  F*** off!" -- don't give me much of a sense that the place has really chilled out, and that's why I check in so rarely these days.

Sorry,
Jon Blum

Sorry to hear you feel that way Jon, I just hope you've considered and heard all sides and understand exactly what happened prior to forming those opinions and posting them. All of it is archived.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on October 29, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
Adding my thoughts on the matter. After being accused of being somebody I wasn't from AGD, GF and Billy were most fair in keeping me from being scrubbed from the board.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on October 29, 2017, 04:26:04 PM
Adding my thoughts on the matter. After being accused of being somebody I wasn't from AGD, GF and Billy were most fair in keeping me from being scrubbed from the board.

The agdster, the former SS resident expert at Unleashing the Lies.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on October 29, 2017, 05:17:30 PM
Brian's agent is shopping a short "Holiday Tour" right now. It would be Brian and Al (and The Band) performing The Beach Boys Christmas album and other BB/Brian tunes. They are looking for venues that did not book Pet Sounds. Tour would only be about 4 weeks long around Thanksgiving thru Christmas.

That would be great! I'd love to attend! Hopefully, they'd include a few songs from Brian's Christmas album, as well.

Me, too - along with a video maybe, if it's a limited event, or happens at all.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Needleinthehay on October 29, 2017, 11:23:47 PM
Cant imagine the Xmas tour happening unless its announced within the next week or so...wonder how old the info is about him shopping an xmas tour is?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 01, 2017, 10:03:44 PM
This would have to be announced sometime early next week if they want to have time to sell tickets on these. I don't see it happening, but crazier things certainly have come through.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CM Punky Brewster on November 02, 2017, 01:09:29 AM
I read it as a tour for next year.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Shady on November 02, 2017, 05:46:42 AM
Let the man rest.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 02, 2017, 08:55:02 AM
Let the man rest.

I hope he does. I don't know what markets they would have left to do this in unless it was truly just one concert in LA or NYC that could be filmed. I'd be down with that. But he doesn't need anymore stress on the road this year.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 02, 2017, 09:01:18 AM
Let the man rest.

I hope he does. I don't know what markets they would have left to do this in unless it was truly just one concert in LA or NYC that could be filmed. I'd be down with that. But he doesn't need anymore stress on the road this year.

Considering Christmas Tours are usually announced during the summer months, I'd be pretty surprised if a 2017 Christmas Tour materializes.  But, if it's on the table for 2018, I'm there. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Curt Lambert on November 02, 2017, 01:14:59 PM
Cant imagine the Xmas tour happening unless its announced within the next week or so...wonder how old the info is about him shopping an xmas tour is?

I saw the agent's email  to a buddy of mine who books/manages a venue in a major mid-west city and it was dated the second week of October.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Curt Lambert on November 02, 2017, 01:17:59 PM
Let the man rest.

I hope he does. I don't know what markets they would have left to do this in unless it was truly just one concert in LA or NYC that could be filmed. I'd be down with that. But he doesn't need anymore stress on the road this year.

Considering Christmas Tours are usually announced during the summer months, I'd be pretty surprised if a 2017 Christmas Tour materializes.  But, if it's on the table for 2018, I'm there. 



On re-reading the email from the agent, it is for November-December of 2018, not 2017. Sorry for my over exuberance.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 03, 2017, 03:17:26 PM
Let the man rest.

I hope he does. I don't know what markets they would have left to do this in unless it was truly just one concert in LA or NYC that could be filmed. I'd be down with that. But he doesn't need anymore stress on the road this year.

Considering Christmas Tours are usually announced during the summer months, I'd be pretty surprised if a 2017 Christmas Tour materializes.  But, if it's on the table for 2018, I'm there. 



On re-reading the email from the agent, it is for November-December of 2018, not 2017. Sorry for my over exuberance.

Thank for clarifying. That's still great news!!! I hope it materializes. However, that leads me to believe there would not be many other performances in 2018, if they are still concerned about which markets Pet Sounds hit. That seems like a silly thing to be concerned with anyway, considering that at least 50% of this show will be new material since Pet Sounds will be dropped and the Christmas album will be added in.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 04, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
Maybe he will be touring the R&R album next year?  ;)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Curt Lambert on November 05, 2017, 11:14:39 AM
Maybe he will be touring the R&R album next year?  ;)


Yes, wouldn't that be great? I am actually glad the holiday tour is next year. Brian needs the time now to rest, write and record (if he wants to).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on November 11, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
Brian's twitter announced the shows in Nashville yesterday and there was a link to the website, which states that "2018 tour dates are being announced" and "Stay tuned as more dates are added".

Woohoo!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on November 11, 2017, 12:09:04 PM
This might be slightly off-topic, but is Brian losing what's left of his range?...or does he always sound like that at the end of a tour?  I saw the New Bedford show and his voice seemed weaker than I expected?  Before that, the latest videos/recordings I had heard were from the C50 live album. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RiC on November 11, 2017, 02:11:58 PM
This might be slightly off-topic, but is Brian losing what's left of his range?...or does he always sound like that at the end of a tour?  I saw the New Bedford show and his voice seemed weaker than I expected?  Before that, the latest videos/recordings I had heard were from the C50 live album. 
Nah, Brian just is a mood-kind of singer. During last year and this year I've heard him sing super strong and beautiful with a great voice and in the same shows very weak-dylan-talk-like. It just depends on the songs and days. I think he has a lot better voice than most people in his age. He just uses it in weird ways sometimes.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on November 11, 2017, 06:55:33 PM
This might be slightly off-topic, but is Brian losing what's left of his range?...or does he always sound like that at the end of a tour?  I saw the New Bedford show and his voice seemed weaker than I expected?  Before that, the latest videos/recordings I had heard were from the C50 live album. 
Nah, Brian just is a mood-kind of singer. During last year and this year I've heard him sing super strong and beautiful with a great voice and in the same shows very weak-dylan-talk-like. It just depends on the songs and days. I think he has a lot better voice than most people in his age. He just uses it in weird ways sometimes.

Thanks RiC. I was worried this might be the beginning of the end. Good to know that's not the case.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Margarita on November 13, 2017, 09:03:09 AM
So I just saw on FB that the May 2018 shows in Nashville will be Pet Sounds shows.  And on the tour page on bw.com, the headline is "2018 Pet Sounds Tour".  
Really?
Isn't it a little cray to do the same show for going on three years now?  And it's not like the Nashville market hasn't had a PS show - I saw him perform PS at the Ryman Auditorium in September 2016.  And while I have never seen a bad Brian show, in Rosemont last month, he was definitely more into the Wild Honey set than PS.  
I mean, I'm still going to see Brian if he comes my way.  And it's an embarrassment of riches to be all like, "Pet Sounds, AGAIN??" when 20 years ago I never thought I would ever see Brian in concert.  But still...it would be nice to have a Smile tour again, or more Wild Honey, or the 1988 album (Rio Grande, anyone? :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 13, 2017, 09:09:49 AM
So I just saw on FB that the May 2018 shows in Nashville will be Pet Sounds shows.  And on the tour page on bw.com, the headline is "2018 Pet Sounds Tour".  
Really?
Isn't it a little cray to do the same show for going on three years now?  And it's not like the Nashville market hasn't had a PS show - I saw him perform PS at the Ryman Auditorium in September 2016.  And while I have never seen a bad Brian show, in Rosemont last month, he was definitely more into the Wild Honey set than PS.  
I mean, I'm still going to see Brian if he comes my way.  And it's an embarrassment of riches to be all like, "Pet Sounds, AGAIN??" when 20 years ago I never thought I would ever see Brian in concert.  But still...it would be nice to have a Smile tour again, or more Wild Honey, or the 1988 album (Rio Grande, anyone? :)

Especially since such a big deal was made about the final performance of Pet Sounds in September. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 13, 2017, 10:03:50 AM
It's quite obvious that "Pet Sounds" shows get better (and more) bookings, and even another year of PS shows would probably sell more tickets to the masses than a "regular" tour. So the problem (outside of our own personal preferences) with doing more PS show isn't that people aren't interested in it.

The potential problem is that Brian is clearly tired of singing the PS stuff. Maybe with six or seven months off, Brian might have some renewed enthusiasm for the songs. But the contrast between the first and second sets at his shows has become more and more pronounced over the last two years.

I don't think they need to do another "themed" tour as far as performing a full album. It would be nice to tie a tour to *something.* If not a new studio album, then perhaps a set of his demo and outtakes or something.

But I am a bit stunned they're booking more PS shows. Now, the three Nashville shows were booked MANY months ago, and it makes sense to do PS when there's a full orchestra.

So it's not impossible that he's doing those shows (and maybe a few others) as PS shows, but other non-PS shows may follow. But if he's just going to churn out another 50+ PS shows in 2018, then I don't see him not continuing to show a clear lack of enthusiasm for singing them. And yes, they will lose some hardcore fans who either don't want to see the lack of energy during PS, or don't want to pony up the money to see the same show he's been doing for 2-3 years, with Al and Blondie's songs barely changing either. But PS sells tickets, which is the only reason promoters are clearly still knocking asking to book more shows. Normally I wouldn't even find that to be a problem. If Brian and Al and everybody were younger and had 10-15 or more years of touring left, then even five years solid of PS wouldn't be problematic. But we're all getting older here, so I'd like to see something different sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 13, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
So does this mean he won't be touring behind a new album in 2018? Or is the new album going to be "Pet Sounds Live - Again"?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on November 13, 2017, 02:26:20 PM
Most legacy artists aren't changing up their sets radically, anyway. A lot of 60s artists have been doing essentially the same shows for 20 years. My issue is the branding of this tour as the "final performances" starting two years ago. I've seen the "final performance of Pet Sounds" in an hour and a half radius of my home five times now! I'd actually love to see it again (more Pet Sounds songs generally mean less surf and car songs, which are not what I enjoy hearing at BW shows) (and also, Pet Sounds is my favorite album of all time, even if Brian croons it like Tony Bennett), but the branding should never have been that, especially this year, if they hand an inkling they'd book even more dates.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 13, 2017, 05:38:53 PM
Whoever was behind the ‘final’ wording in the marketing must be regretting it now.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 13, 2017, 05:54:42 PM
Ugh.  ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Margarita on November 14, 2017, 04:08:16 AM
Whoever was behind the ‘final’ wording in the marketing must be regretting it now.

I doubt it.  "Final" pushes people to buy tickets - it's a marketing thing.  There was probably never any intention to retire PS forever.  Remember that "final" was also used for PS performances in 2006. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 14, 2017, 06:52:01 AM
I'm far less concerned with how previous PS shows/tours have been billed as far as being "final" shows, etc., than I am with Brian's clear apathy towards doing the PS songs.

We established long ago that there's always the chance of more PS shows. People complained in *2013* when Brian randomly did the full PS at a couple of gigs that they were going back on the advertising from the 2006/2007 shows in terms of being "final" shows.

Given how upbeat Brian was during even the longest tour stretches this year for the non-PS stuff, and how clearly bored he is of PS, I figured they had to move on to something else this year.

Which they may still do; I'm not convinced they're going to build another 75-date PS tour around those Nashville shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: STE on November 14, 2017, 08:47:02 AM


2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 14, 2017, 09:29:56 AM


2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances


Proving that by 2013 anybody previously aware of this phenomenon had nobody but themselves to blame if they thought that subsequent tours would definitively be the final performances.

This was actually established in *2007*; some folks may have forgotten that they did some November 2006 PS dates, and then booked three west coast shows in January 2007. I vaguely recall people complaining back in late 2006 when the three additional January 2007 dates were announced.

I never make any assumptions about what might be the final shows of this or that. I'm sure some of us remember buying tickets for Brian's first tour in 1999. Many of us bought the tickets in part because we figured there was a good chance this would be the *one and only* chance to ever see him.

I would be fine with more PS shows, regardless of how previous tours were billed, if Brian was into singing the songs.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Curt Lambert on November 14, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
I wager these could be the only Pet Sounds shows in 2018. These three Nashville Symphony dates have been scheduled for about a year. They probably requested the Pet Sounds material as this was booked in the middle of the Pet Sounds tour. I would prefer Brian be touring something else, but I don't have a major issue with it. I have tickets to two of the shows. LOL


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Senator Blutarsky on November 15, 2017, 02:31:13 PM
I am sure the album performed with an orchestra behind it will be amazing. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on November 15, 2017, 11:22:40 PM


2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances


In a better world, Brian could do a Wild Honey show, or Sunflower, or even Beach Boys Today....but the general public doesn't even know those albums.
I'm surprised, though, that Mike and Bruce aren't doing an Endless Summer show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 16, 2017, 05:16:08 AM


2006: these are the last Pet Sounds performances ever
2013: just a few Pet Sounds performances, but it's an exception
2016: ok more Pet Sounds performances
2017: alright but these are really the very last Pet Sounds performances ever
2018: ok more Pet Sounds performances


In a better world, Brian could do a Wild Honey show, or Sunflower, or even Beach Boys Today....but the general public doesn't even know those albums.
I'm surprised, though, that Mike and Bruce aren't doing an Endless Summer show.

I wrote in length on the PSF that there are several BB albums that come very close being classic albums, not just classic BB albums, if not for a song selection or two.   (ie. Putting the talk track on Today). 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 16, 2017, 07:26:47 AM
I've said it before; Brian is unlikely to tour a full album outside of PS or "Smile", and even less likely to venture outside of the 60s where other members wrote and sang their own stuff.

I just don't see Brian (even with a backing guy singing it) doing "Tears in the Morning."

"Wild Honey" seems more likely than others, as it's at least mostly Brian-penned material.

As I've already mentioned as well, I really don't need to see any more albums performed in full. A wide-ranging, interesting setlist is just fine.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 16, 2017, 07:43:13 AM
I've said it before; Brian is unlikely to tour a full album outside of PS or "Smile", and even less likely to venture outside of the 60s where other members wrote and sang their own stuff.

I just don't see Brian (even with a backing guy singing it) doing "Tears in the Morning."

"Wild Honey" seems more likely than others, as it's at least mostly Brian-penned material.

As I've already mentioned as well, I really don't need to see any more albums performed in full. A wide-ranging, interesting setlist is just fine.

I remember a year or two ago, he mentioned that he really liked Summer Days Summer Nights.   I think it would be more likely to see Brian do something like Today or SDSN than anything post 1967.   And even with those, it wouldn't likely be the entire albums.  Today would obviously cut Bull Session, and I'd think they'd still do the single arrangement of Rhonda.  For SDSN, I'd be shocked if Brian did Bugged at My Old Man. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 16, 2017, 09:21:06 AM
One more SMiLE tour would be the kicker. Outside of that, I don't see any "album" oriented tours surviving. They just don't have the flow or the hit-power.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 29, 2017, 07:14:17 AM
Perhaps more insight into why they might be apt to book more "Pet Sounds" shows:

https://www.pollstar.com/article/stones-top-concert-pulse-brian-wilson-pj-masks-2-chainz-debut-133825

Brian is on the "Global Concert Pulse Chart" at #54:

Pollstar's Global Concert Pulse chart ranks tours by average gross over the last three months.

The legendary Brian Wilson spoke to Pollstar in January about the Pet Sounds 50th Anniversary World Tour, which ran from April to October and also played Europe. 

That was an extension of the tour that originally started in March of 2016 and played into December, taking in markets including Australia, Israel, Japan and Dubai to go along with a North American run.

Recent box office reported to Pollstar for the Wilson tour include Oct. 14 at the Pacific Amphitheatre at Costa Mesa, Calif., which sold 4,623 tickets and grossed $354,351, Sept. 23 at Radio City Music Hall (3,674, $324,197), and Aug. 3 at the Kelvingrove Bandstand and Amphitheatre in Glasgow, Scotland, which sold 2,250 and $117,522.

Wilson’s average gross on the Concert Pulse chart was $172,319, with ticket sales at 2,047 and an average ticket price of $84.17.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on November 29, 2017, 11:50:53 AM

https://www.pollstar.com/concert-pulse

Wow! The Stones are number 1 with $10m. I’ll be Chicken Sh!t all day long for some of that.  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Mr. Wilson on November 30, 2017, 02:45:46 AM
Go to BW website.. 2018 is a PET SOUNDS tour.. I cant believe this..!!!!! I saw this 2017 show  3 times.. Indio ..Hollywood.. Costa Mesa.. Indio and Costa Mesa.. were shorter shows with no breaks.. Songs were cut from the 1st set..  I cant see goin again in 2018 unless there is a revamp of songs.. saw PS twice in 2000.. twice in 2006-7..and once in 2016.. Thats  8 times total.. And 3 times Smile 2004 5..  One time TLOS.. Grand total since 1999 23 times i believe or more..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         y                                                                        Its funny i was listening to BW 2002 england a couple of shows recently pet sounds tour and the 1st set had LOTS of deep cuts and must have had 20 songs in it.. Stuff from surfs up.. friends.. smile.. ballads from today lp side 2.. I yearn for those days again.. Solo songs and deep cuts.. im sorry i sound like a broken record.. i keep bring this up.. i mean in 2002 BW sang Forever and Good Timin in tribute to DW CW.. i guess you cant go back they say


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Mr. Wilson on November 30, 2017, 02:52:17 AM
At Costa Mesa they sold over 4600 tickets.. Well where i was sitting it was almost full so they must have gave away ALOT of tickets.. Nothin wrong with that.. But it hold 9600.. It used to seat 17000 before they got rid of lawn section .. Every year from 1983 thru 1992 BB played there every summer.. Lots of BB memories in that venue for me.. Saw BB every year there..


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Tony S on November 30, 2017, 03:01:18 AM
I'm surprised that 2018 will be a Pet Sounds tour again. I guess maybe that's the positive rub on ticket sales. But after having seen 2 Pet Sounds shows last year, that particular segment of the show was fairly dissappointing. Brian's almost lounge lizard type of spoken performance was not really good. I wouldn't go to see Pet Sounds performed like that again, and frankly I don't think I would do another Pet Sounds show, because I've also seen it a few times, and the shows were better a few years ago when Brian seemed more interested in performing Pet Sounds. Just my opinion.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 30, 2017, 05:59:49 AM
Hopefully, the Pet Sounds 2018 "Tour" is no more than the three scheduled dates with an orchestra. 

What will the first look like?

Brian Wilson - Pet Sounds - 2018 - For Really Reals The Final Final Performances


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 30, 2017, 06:24:04 AM
Go to BW website.. 2018 is a PET SOUNDS tour.. I cant believe this..!!!!! I saw this 2017 show  3 times.. Indio ..Hollywood.. Costa Mesa.. Indio and Costa Mesa.. were shorter shows with no breaks.. Songs were cut from the 1st set..  I cant see goin again in 2018 unless there is a revamp of songs.. saw PS twice in 2000.. twice in 2006-7..and once in 2016.. Thats  8 times total.. And 3 times Smile 2004 5..  One time TLOS.. Grand total since 1999 23 times i believe or more..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         y                                                                        Its funny i was listening to BW 2002 england a couple of shows recently pet sounds tour and the 1st set had LOTS of deep cuts and must have had 20 songs in it.. Stuff from surfs up.. friends.. smile.. ballads from today lp side 2.. I yearn for those days again.. Solo songs and deep cuts.. im sorry i sound like a broken record.. i keep bring this up.. i mean in 2002 BW sang Forever and Good Timin in tribute to DW CW.. i guess you cant go back they say

The article I cited above indicates, if we couldn't already guess, why they would continue to book PS shows/tours. It's hugely lucrative. It is true that, at this stage, the PS tours are targeted at a wider audience, and that's probably part of why the first set of the the last few tours has had a lot of "meat and potatoes" numbers. But they have done a good amount of what I would still call "deep cuts"; they just haven't changed much from show to show or tour to tour. But they've done in the last couple years:

Honkin' Down the Highway
The Night Was So Young
Funky Pretty
Feel Flows
Aren't You Glad
I'd Love Just Once To See You
Let The Wind Blow
Hushabye
Susie Cincinnati
She Knows Me Too Well
Wake the World

Other at least "moderately deep" cuts:

Girl Don't Tell Me
Salt Lake City
Little Honda
Please Let Me Wonder
Monster Mash
Drive In
Add Some Music To Your Day
Marcella (admittedly only once or twice)
Al's songs (Then I Kissed Her, Cotton Fields, California Saga:California; all songs common in the last few years but somewhat "deep" in a larger context)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CM Punky Brewster on November 30, 2017, 08:19:28 AM
Not to sound like a BriMel apologist, but I can understand why his shows have become geared towards the oldies. That is the era that Brian was not only the most involved, but it was the most prolific and it defines his legacy. Plus Brian doing oldies IS different from Mike doing oldies in terms of how they are presented. Mike and the touring band (even when Carl was still alive) presents the oldies like it is the soundtrack of a bitchen beach party. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, sometimes you need to just occasionally turn off your brain. But Brian presenting the oldies with that band, you are reminded of how innovative and special that music was as you pay respect to the guy that wrote and created that music
Which is why I always rolled my eyes anytime someone says "Brian's shows are just like Mike's!"

No, they aren't. Really


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on November 30, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
If they were truly selling the show to new markets, I would buy this line of thinking but frankly...they aren't. On the financial side of things, this is no different than how Mike and Bruce operate. Albeit, these Pet Sounds shows are vastly more expressive, artistic, and frankly...more musical. It's less of a party, and more of a celebration.

Regardless, let's celebrate some of the OTHER musical successes in Brian's career.....

I'm really not interested in seeing this show a third time in 2018, I know I'm in the minority. But Brian was perfection at The Strathmore in 2016 and I'd rather remember that, because he certainly was NOT in Baltimore just a month prior. In the same breath, I'm not interested in seeing Mike and Bruce. I had a fantastic front row seat this summer...had a great interaction with Mike singing his autobiography and chatting with many band members, but Bruce Johnston treated me like sh*t. I'm not putting more money in his pocket (from tickets at least).

On the otherhand, I am VERY excited for Al Jardine's storyteller outing...I REALLY hope this becomes a larger scale run than the current two venues.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on November 30, 2017, 08:35:11 AM
Not to sound like a BriMel apologist, but I can understand why his shows have become geared towards the oldies. That is the era that Brian was not only the most involved, but it was the most prolific and it defines his legacy. Plus Brian doing oldies IS different from Mike doing oldies in terms of how they are presented. Mike and the touring band (even when Carl was still alive) presents the oldies like it is the soundtrack of a bitchen beach party. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, sometimes you need to just occasionally turn off your brain. But Brian presenting the oldies with that band, you are reminded of how innovative and special that music was as you pay respect to the guy that wrote and created that music
Which is why I always rolled my eyes anytime someone says "Brian's shows are just like Mike's!"

No, they aren't. Really

I think both Brian and Mike's shows are right to revolve around oldies.   The Beach Boys top material was released from 1962-73, so I have no problem paying for a ticket to hear mostly those songs. 

But, with Brian's, I'd like to see him get away from the Pet Sounds sets since reviews of many 2017 shows showed that Brian didn't seem to put his all into the PS set like he said during the first set, and the encore. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 30, 2017, 09:15:01 AM
If they were truly selling the show to new markets, I would buy this line of thinking but frankly...they aren't. On the financial side of things, this is no different than how Mike and Bruce operate.

In terms of trying to generate revenue, why would Brian's tour ever be any different from Mike's tour or anyone else's?

Brian's tour is clearly going where venues/promoters/ticket buyers want them, and they're selling the show that promoters want.

That being said, Brian's tour does *not* operate financially in the same fashion as Mike's tour. Brian's tour has *way* more overhead costs. Brian travels in more cushy accommodations, I believe they travel with much if not most of their tour rig/gear, and of course as we all know it employs *way more* musicians in the band.

Mike runs a lean operation, renting most of the gear in most cities, and has a smaller band. He does have to pay the licensing fee to BRI, which considering its power and pull, he's getting away with at a very cheap price. Plus, Mike collects 25% of that licensing fee back as a member of BRI.

So Brian, even in his hugely active touring schedule of the last two years, still does *less* shows than Mike does in a given year. So he has an even stronger incentive to maximize profit per show and overall, knowing that he won't be touring *all* year.

He has been able to book far more shows, and larger/more prestigious venues, with his PS tour.

That all being said, we don't yet know if all of Brian's 2018 shows will be PS shows. We also don't even know if it will be a heavy touring year in general. The website blurb implies we're going to get more than just the three Nashville shows. But he may do far fewer than the 70-100 shows he has done each of the last two years.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on November 30, 2017, 09:19:44 AM
Not to sound like a BriMel apologist, but I can understand why his shows have become geared towards the oldies. That is the era that Brian was not only the most involved, but it was the most prolific and it defines his legacy. Plus Brian doing oldies IS different from Mike doing oldies in terms of how they are presented. Mike and the touring band (even when Carl was still alive) presents the oldies like it is the soundtrack of a bitchen beach party. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, sometimes you need to just occasionally turn off your brain. But Brian presenting the oldies with that band, you are reminded of how innovative and special that music was as you pay respect to the guy that wrote and created that music
Which is why I always rolled my eyes anytime someone says "Brian's shows are just like Mike's!"

No, they aren't. Really

I think both Brian and Mike's shows are right to revolve around oldies.   The Beach Boys top material was released from 1962-73, so I have no problem paying for a ticket to hear mostly those songs. 

But, with Brian's, I'd like to see him get away from the Pet Sounds sets since reviews of many 2017 shows showed that Brian didn't seem to put his all into the PS set like he said during the first set, and the encore. 

There's no question that Brian's audience is going to be far more open to deep cuts (he has toured multiple full solo albums in concert). His audience skews younger, more of an indie crowd, etc. Mike's shows skew much older, a lot more senior citizens, etc.

The "PS" tours are about as mainstream as Brian has gotten, and yet he's still doing a TON of deep cuts at those shows. Let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of things, all but 3 or 4 of the PS songs are "deep" cuts. There's a reason even during the deepest of the deep cut theater shows Mike does, Mike has never gone past 6 or 7 PS songs. He's never tread into doing the instrumentals or "I Know There's An Answer", etc.

Brian's lack of enthusiasm for the PS set is, apart from fan setlist wish lists, the only truly legit reason to give pause to doing a ton more PS shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: theradiantradicchio on December 06, 2017, 07:38:20 PM
About the PS tour, I think it depends.

Brian seems to be very tired to play it over and over again, but, it's definitely more lucrative and gets more attention than anything else.
People outside the U.S are not very used to the show, and there are countries Brian never played or haven't played in years. I spoke with Darian last month, asked him if there's a possibility of gig in Brazil, and he said they're trying, but they don't have financial conditions at the moment. If they ever have the opportunity to play in Brazil again (Brian only played here in 2004, one city and only 4 Pet Sounds songs on the setlist), they would probably have to do the PS tour. I believe it would be the smartest decision, financially speaking.

But when it comes to the U.S, he should definitely change and decrease the number of shows, at least for now.
I think his next album will contain new songs, and maybe 2/3 oldies as a bonus.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 18, 2017, 07:15:09 AM
Looks like we have a new date: May 15 in SC at the North Charleston Performing Arts Center. It's also a "Pet Sounds" show. I've updated the top post with the new date.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on December 18, 2017, 08:28:07 AM
Several new dates including Kennedy Center in DC, looks like all of these will be Pet Sounds Orchestra dates, so at least a little different look.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on December 18, 2017, 08:31:12 AM
And Blondie Chaplin just posted that he will be on the tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 18, 2017, 09:08:44 AM
Several new dates including Kennedy Center in DC, looks like all of these will be Pet Sounds Orchestra dates, so at least a little different look.

Thanks for the heads up on additional dates. Weirdly, Brian's website posted those new dates but only his Facebook page is showing the SC show on May 15 thus far.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on December 18, 2017, 09:10:53 AM
I honestly don’t mind seeing pet sounds again if it’s with an orchestra, but this should be a short 10-16 date tour with Symphonies and then he should take off until an early December Christmas tour. That’s my two cents.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 18, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on December 18, 2017, 01:25:09 PM
Found another one -- this tour is getting closer to me.

May 16 -- Augusta, GA (Bell Auditorium)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RONDEMON on December 18, 2017, 01:59:27 PM
Not to sound like a stick in the mud, but is anyone else slightly annoyed that these Pet Sounds dates are still happening? They've been saying it's the "final" performances for the last two years, when it's obvious that these aren't the final performances of PS.

It's fantastic Brian and his band are still touring, but saying that it's a "final" performance of Pet Sounds for the past two years creates a false sense of urgency to concertgoers — esp. since he's coming back to the same cities.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Eric Aniversario on December 18, 2017, 02:46:42 PM
Not to sound like a stick in the mud, but is anyone else slightly annoyed that these Pet Sounds dates are still happening? They've been saying it's the "final" performances for the last two years, when it's obvious that these aren't the final performances of PS.

It's fantastic Brian and his band are still touring, but saying that it's a "final" performance of Pet Sounds for the past two years creates a false sense of urgency to concertgoers — esp. since he's coming back to the same cities.


I feel the same way. The late 2016 shows were billed as "final", then the tour was extended a full year, appearing in many of the same cities. I really believed that 2017 would be the end of the tour. But then the VERY next tour is ANOTHER Pet Sounds tour??? I love Pet Sounds, and I love Brian's shows, but he really seemed bored at the 2017 show I attended. I'm grateful for any tour, but I think that both Brian and his fans would enjoy something new. Maybe even another Smile tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on December 18, 2017, 04:27:47 PM
Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 18, 2017, 05:08:33 PM
Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.

We were considering it, but I think we're passing.  Its a weeknight and we'd need a babysitter. 

Plus, that show in Bethesda last September was soooo good that I want that to be my last memory of PS live.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 18, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.

We were considering it, but I think we're passing.  Its a weeknight and we'd need a babysitter. 

Plus, that show in Bethesda last September was soooo good that I want that to be my last memory of PS live.

That's the other piece...it's such a risk with Brian. It looks like this will be the first night of these symphonic shows and I don't think he's ever had a good opening night.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 18, 2017, 08:13:22 PM
Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.

We were considering it, but I think we're passing.  Its a weeknight and we'd need a babysitter. 

Plus, that show in Bethesda last September was soooo good that I want that to be my last memory of PS live.

That's the other piece...it's such a risk with Brian. It looks like this will be the first night of these symphonic shows and I don't think he's ever had a good opening night.

Thats true, especially with the uneven performances of the PS album.  For a BB show in 2018, I think I'll keep my fingers crossed for an Al show, or a Brian Xmas show. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 19, 2017, 06:32:19 AM
Here I am eating my words again. I'll consider The Kennedy Center. Adding the National Symphony Orchestra does wonders. They made Mike and Bruce sound immaculate in 2016.

That being said, I see the cheapest tickets are $50...and of course VIPs get up to $500...a few words of advice to anyone considering...the concert hall is not created equal. Mid-way back on the floor (orchestra) is about the only place you want to be. The sound is atrocious up in the mezzanines BUT, the absolute worst is in front. These poor shmucks buying VIP packages are really going to have the worst of it. The first five rows or so of the concert hall is just awful. I don't know what it is. It's like the sound goes over top of you. It's very muffled and fuzzy.

I'll consider this one, but if regular orchestra seats are much over $100, I don't know if I can justify it.

We were considering it, but I think we're passing.  Its a weeknight and we'd need a babysitter. 

Plus, that show in Bethesda last September was soooo good that I want that to be my last memory of PS live.

That's the other piece...it's such a risk with Brian. It looks like this will be the first night of these symphonic shows and I don't think he's ever had a good opening night.

I caught opening night on the 2015 NPP tour, and Brian and the band were hot. Not rusty in the slightest. If anything, I'd say Brian comes across better when he's had a break (whether months or days), and it's usually when he's on the second or third night in a row that his energy sometimes starts to drop.

I'm by no means an apologist for Brian tours. I've seen him over a dozen times and some shows are better than others. The weird thing about the last couple years of PS shows is that the *first set* continually shows Brian more upbeat and happy and energetic than he has been in years, while the second set shows him more detached and bored than I've seen him in years.

But ultimately, I don't think the 2018 dates are primarily targeted at superfans that have already seen multiple shows. Not that he's playing all far-off, brand-new markets or anything, but I think the general idea is to do some additional venues that haven't had him lately or at all and/or are asking for additional shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 19, 2017, 11:00:57 AM
Added another date to the top post: 5/19 in Viera, FL.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on December 19, 2017, 12:48:17 PM
Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.

I'm sticking with this assessment.  I'll let you know if I'm wrong about there being new material for hard-cores.

If Brian's inspired and has the sound he wants, he does very well.  I think the orchestra will work for him.  Yes, sometimes he gets tired and he's even more prone to getting bored - maybe even more than some of us who are asking for more deep cuts.

I've been reading that ABBA will be doing a world tour in 2019 as holograms appearing before a live band (good for them for having all that great film footage to work with).  I think it's them in their 20's/30's when they had all that energy.  Pick your options, do you want living BBs or holograms?  No criticism intended toward ABBA - I think its a really creative (and probably lucrative) idea.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 19, 2017, 08:14:55 PM
Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.

I'm sticking with this assessment.  I'll let you know if I'm wrong about there being new material for hard-cores.

If Brian's inspired and has the sound he wants, he does very well.  I think the orchestra will work for him.  Yes, sometimes he gets tired and he's even more prone to getting bored - maybe even more than some of us who are asking for more deep cuts.

I've been reading that ABBA will be doing a world tour in 2019 as holograms appearing before a live band (good for them for having all that great film footage to work with).  I think it's them in their 20's/30's when they had all that energy.  Pick your options, do you want living BBs or holograms?  No criticism intended toward ABBA - I think its a really creative (and probably lucrative) idea.  

Ronnie James Dio is also touring as a hologram.  I fear this is where live (?) music is heading.  Im fine with playing to a video like The Beach Boys do to Carl and Dennis for one song each, but I wouldnt want to see a hologram on stage for a whole show. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 19, 2017, 08:57:44 PM
No sir. I am not paying standard concert prices for that for anyone. I'd pay about ten bucks for that, like I do for a ticket at a movie theatre, because that's all it really is.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 19, 2017, 09:00:12 PM
Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.

I'm sticking with this assessment.  I'll let you know if I'm wrong about there being new material for hard-cores.

If Brian's inspired and has the sound he wants, he does very well.  I think the orchestra will work for him.  Yes, sometimes he gets tired and he's even more prone to getting bored - maybe even more than some of us who are asking for more deep cuts.

I've been reading that ABBA will be doing a world tour in 2019 as holograms appearing before a live band (good for them for having all that great film footage to work with).  I think it's them in their 20's/30's when they had all that energy.  Pick your options, do you want living BBs or holograms?  No criticism intended toward ABBA - I think its a really creative (and probably lucrative) idea. 

Ronnie James Dio is also touring as a hologram.  I fear this is where live (?) music is heading.  Im fine with playing to a video like The Beach Boys do to Carl and Dennis for one song each, but I wouldnt want to see a hologram on stage for a whole show. 

Oh hell no.  I don't like that idea one bit


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jay on December 19, 2017, 10:59:52 PM
The only way I would be remotely interested in a hologram show/tour of an artist is if it were Jimi Hendrix, and only if somebody discovered a totally unknown to exist concert film of him, making it totally "new" to fans.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 19, 2017, 11:16:25 PM
f*** that,  I'd pop a blu ray in.

Of course,  I say this as an EDM artist , in a field where live performances usually consist of laptops, microphones,  and a light show, I dunno :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: 13thBB on December 20, 2017, 06:07:37 AM
Wow!!!  I am a Brian Wilson fan...at the very least.  Personally I don't truly believe that he can handle another long and demanding schedule of tour dates.  YES...the new album will have to be supported in some meaningful way and one would have to think that it'll be recorded and ready for release sometime within these next 6 months or so.  Maybe a package of 2 or 3 shows every other night in just ONE hand-picked city and taking place in special and entirely proper acoustically wonderful locations/venues.   These stops should be spread out between mid May and mid December.  That would work.   There needs to be real time off between tour stops...like maybe 9 or 10 days...thus limiting the showcasing of the new l.p. to as few as just 15 or 16 specific locations.

Brian's music is geared toward vocal performance.  If he is to participate in a qualitative and meaningful way he has to be allowed the time to keep his instrument in working order. Otherwise ... It's a disservice to the reason for taking the new album out for a ride let alone to the fans and to Brian D. Wilson himself.  He deserves at this point to only be showcased at his BEST.  Either that or just give him but a baton...and then...strike up the band.  Think that'd fly?  I don't.

The Pet Sounds 50th [and 51st] Anniversary Tour was a chance for all of us to come out and enjoy...and boisterously yell "THANK YOU Brian!!!"  But that's done now.  

Going forward I demand that Brian be presented with artistic dignity.  Don't 'Old Blue Eyes' him out the door.  He deserves FAR better than that.  So does his band.  So do we.

I lived in Pompano Beach. There is no dignity there, trust me. I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2017, 06:57:48 AM
There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he died at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 20, 2017, 07:03:16 AM
I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.

He is allowed to. Brian has stated numerous times that he has no desire to retire. He is interested in both recording and touring. In fact, he has even recently said he is more interested in touring than recording! He has his bad days...he will hear auditory hallucinations on stage from time to time, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: 13thBB on December 20, 2017, 07:08:25 AM
I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.

He is allowed to. Brian has stated numerous times that he has no desire to retire. He is interested in both recording and touring. In fact, he has even recently said he is more interested in touring than recording! He has his bad days...he will hear auditory hallucinations on stage from time to time, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to tour.

My comment comes from watching his performances on YouTube where he looks so sad and miserable. I always felt, personally, that he is being pushed out there to perform to keep his lifestyle the way it is. When you got to a Mike and Bruce show, there is fun but with Brian it just looks so somber, like a funeral. Thank God for Al and the band.

But if you say he has stated repeatedly that it is what he wants, so be it. He is coming to my area in May 2018, I will surely be there.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 20, 2017, 07:44:51 AM
I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.

He is allowed to. Brian has stated numerous times that he has no desire to retire. He is interested in both recording and touring. In fact, he has even recently said he is more interested in touring than recording! He has his bad days...he will hear auditory hallucinations on stage from time to time, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to tour.

My comment comes from watching his performances on YouTube where he looks so sad and miserable. I always felt, personally, that he is being pushed out there to perform to keep his lifestyle the way it is. When you got to a Mike and Bruce show, there is fun but with Brian it just looks so somber, like a funeral. Thank God for Al and the band.

But if you say he has stated repeatedly that it is what he wants, so be it. He is coming to my area in May 2018, I will surely be there.

I don't think Brian tours because he needs the money. I think it's fair to assume that Brian and his extended family are set for life and they have been for a long time. It's also been discussed that Brian tours in more luxury than Mike & Bruce. In other words, he's not counting pennies. I think it's fair to say that touring is more of a struggle for Brian than it is for Mike & Bruce and at times that can be observed simply by watching a youtube video. With that said, what is Brian to do? Hide away in his bedroom? His ailments won't disappear if he retires. Although, maybe his back problems might improve a little. Still, I get the sense that he's making up for lost time. I think it took him a long, long time to truly understand how much his fans appreciate him. I think his goal is to make them happy, which makes him happy. That doesn't mean it's not a struggle for him, though. If he wants to retire, I support him 100%. No one here would argue that he doesn't deserve to!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 20, 2017, 08:13:32 AM
There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he did at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.

I don't think we'll ever encounter holograms of the Beach Boys. Nobody in the general public cares who they're seeing. The Beach Boys will become the Glenn Miller Orchestra of Rock and Roll. I'm 23, and I have no doubt that when I'm 53 that the Beach Boys will be touring...perhaps with Scott Totten as the "long time member" like Bruce is now...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2017, 09:30:40 AM
There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he did at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.

I don't think we'll ever encounter holograms of the Beach Boys. Nobody in the general public cares who they're seeing. The Beach Boys will become the Glenn Miller Orchestra of Rock and Roll. I'm 23, and I have no doubt that when I'm 53 that the Beach Boys will be touring...perhaps with Scott Totten as the "long time member" like Bruce is now...

The brand will indeed almost surely be licensed in some form or another. I don't know if we'd see Totten still doing it 30 years from now. I don't know his exact age, but I'd have to imagine he's nearing 50 right now.

Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2017, 09:33:07 AM
I wish Brian were allowed to just retire and take a step back from touring so much.

He is allowed to. Brian has stated numerous times that he has no desire to retire. He is interested in both recording and touring. In fact, he has even recently said he is more interested in touring than recording! He has his bad days...he will hear auditory hallucinations on stage from time to time, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to tour.

My comment comes from watching his performances on YouTube where he looks so sad and miserable. I always felt, personally, that he is being pushed out there to perform to keep his lifestyle the way it is. When you got to a Mike and Bruce show, there is fun but with Brian it just looks so somber, like a funeral. Thank God for Al and the band.

But if you say he has stated repeatedly that it is what he wants, so be it. He is coming to my area in May 2018, I will surely be there.

The "does Brian want to be touring?" question is really no different now than it was back in 1999 when he started doing it. It's pretty clear that the reason it's such a controversial topic is that the answer is indeed somewhere in between. I think Brian wouldn't do it left to his own devices. But I think he also appreciates the benefits of being motivated to stay active (both physically and mentally, and musically). He clearly has never liked many if not most of the aspects of touring. But he also knows he gets something out of it (money is one thing; though not the only).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: 13thBB on December 20, 2017, 09:34:58 AM
There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he did at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.

I don't think we'll ever encounter holograms of the Beach Boys. Nobody in the general public cares who they're seeing. The Beach Boys will become the Glenn Miller Orchestra of Rock and Roll. I'm 23, and I have no doubt that when I'm 53 that the Beach Boys will be touring...perhaps with Scott Totten as the "long time member" like Bruce is now...

The brand will indeed almost surely be licensed in some form or another. I don't know if we'd see Totten still doing it 30 years from now. I don't know his exact age, but I'd have to imagine he's nearing 50 right now.

Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.

Listen, I'm 37. I can't imagine seeing any member of the Beach Boys live by the time I turn 40 aside from maybe Al. If there is SOMEONE alive and healthy enough to put together a good BB show experience .... I am 100% in support of it.

I'd love to see Matt Jardine over Foskett, though.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 20, 2017, 09:45:28 AM
Let me first state that I have no inside info, but PS with a symphony is amazing stuff, and I think many people want new material in other parts of the show that haven't been heard before.  I have a strong feeling that this will work out and be worth the ticket price alone.

I'm sticking with this assessment.  I'll let you know if I'm wrong about there being new material for hard-cores.

If Brian's inspired and has the sound he wants, he does very well.  I think the orchestra will work for him.  Yes, sometimes he gets tired and he's even more prone to getting bored - maybe even more than some of us who are asking for more deep cuts.

I've been reading that ABBA will be doing a world tour in 2019 as holograms appearing before a live band (good for them for having all that great film footage to work with).  I think it's them in their 20's/30's when they had all that energy.  Pick your options, do you want living BBs or holograms?  No criticism intended toward ABBA - I think its a really creative (and probably lucrative) idea. 

Ronnie James Dio is also touring as a hologram.  I fear this is where live (?) music is heading.  Im fine with playing to a video like The Beach Boys do to Carl and Dennis for one song each, but I wouldnt want to see a hologram on stage for a whole show. 

Oh hell no.  I don't like that idea one bit

Me neither.  But as the legends slowly pass on or retire, I could see this becoming more common. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2017, 10:27:17 AM
There's an Orbison hologram tour hitting the UK soon (might be the same company/technology that is doing the Dio show). It's pretty gross overall I'd say. I mean, I guess there's something of an extra "missed opportunity" with Orbison as he did at age 52 and had barely started his career resurgence when he died. I guess on the scale of "justifiable", he's a bit more so simply due to not having been touring constantly as recently as a few years ago. But it's still icky and tacky.

I dig some of what Orbison's sons are doing (expanded "Black and White Night" Blu-ray, deluxe "Mystery Girl" reissue, reissuing the MGM era stuff including a full unreleased album), I'm a bit iffy on others (the symphonic overdubs album), and have been disappointed by yet others (the hologram, the continuous hits compilations).

But the BBs, in various incarnations, are still touring as they head towards 80 years old and the band's 60th anniversary. Hopefully we won't have to deal with prospects of holograms for them any time terribly soon.

But yeah, kind of along the lines of what Billy said, instead of doing Dio or Orbison or BB holograms, just put out some more DVDs or Blu-rays or something. Most of these artists have an archive full of stuff (especially live stuff) that hasn't been released. Just put *that* stuff out.

Also, I've seen the Dio hologram on YouTube and it never doesn't come across as a gimmick. Is it better than just doing like those Elvis shows where they just play live with Elvis on a video screen behind them? I'm not really sure.

I don't think we'll ever encounter holograms of the Beach Boys. Nobody in the general public cares who they're seeing. The Beach Boys will become the Glenn Miller Orchestra of Rock and Roll. I'm 23, and I have no doubt that when I'm 53 that the Beach Boys will be touring...perhaps with Scott Totten as the "long time member" like Bruce is now...

The brand will indeed almost surely be licensed in some form or another. I don't know if we'd see Totten still doing it 30 years from now. I don't know his exact age, but I'd have to imagine he's nearing 50 right now.

Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.

Listen, I'm 37. I can't imagine seeing any member of the Beach Boys live by the time I turn 40 aside from maybe Al. If there is SOMEONE alive and healthy enough to put together a good BB show experience .... I am 100% in support of it.

I'd love to see Matt Jardine over Foskett, though.

Mike, if he maintains his health, I could easily see continuing past 80 years old. He hands over a huge hunk of his show to other lead vocalists. Bruce doesn't have to do any heavy lifting at the shows, so as long as he maintains his health he could do the same.

Obviously, with each year the stats dictate a demise for all of the common reasons becomes more and more likely. But I doubt Mike will "retire" as long as he's able to do it. He'll either do it until he dies, or until he has a relatively significant infirmity.

I would definitely much prefer Matt Jardine to Foskett for both musical and non-musical reasons, if a license is eventually issued outside of any founding members.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 20, 2017, 11:17:07 AM
Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.

I'll let the cat give my answer to that possibility:

(http://www.yesmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/grumpy-cat-no-memes_5.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 20, 2017, 11:19:34 AM
Give grumpy cat the license.... :hat


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 20, 2017, 12:11:51 PM
Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.

I'll let the cat give my answer to that possibility:

(http://www.yesmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/grumpy-cat-no-memes_5.jpg)

I wouldn't want to see it (now or at any other time), again for both musical and non-musical reasons, and I'm skeptical as to whether BRI would ever sign on for something so long as any founding members are still alive.

But based on the available info I have, I think it's definitely possible that Foskett wants it and/or is angling for it if only in subtle ways.

Foskett may not be as much of a lynchpin to Mike's organization as he was to Brian's at times, but I don't believe Foskett is just another guy in Mike's band now. He joins Mike for public events (often if not usually without Bruce). Other than Stamos (when Stamos is on tour with them), Foskett seems to be the most prominent public face of the band outside of Mike.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
Quote
But based on the available info I have, I think it's definitely possible that Foskett wants it and/or is angling for it if only in subtle ways.

Foskett may not be as much of a lynchpin to Mike's organization as he was to Brian's at times, but I don't believe Foskett is just another guy in Mike's band now. He joins Mike for public events (often if not usually without Bruce). Other than Stamos (when Stamos is on tour with them), Foskett seems to be the most prominent public face of the band outside of Mike.

Once there are no more original BB touring, the name should be RETIRED. Period.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 20, 2017, 12:55:49 PM
Mike will tour through Skype at age 90....


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Needleinthehay on December 20, 2017, 05:09:15 PM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 20, 2017, 07:09:43 PM
Getting back on topic...two questions in regards to Kennedy Center Concert...

Can anybody find what time tickets go on sale tomorrow? I see that information NOWHERE.

Also, I am beginning to doubt the presence of the NSO. I have read on Brian's website press release that he will be joined by the National Symphony Orchestra. I have read on other accounts that he will be joined by HIS ten piece orchestra (his band), and on the Kennedy Center website and description it makes NO mention of the NSO performing.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 20, 2017, 08:05:58 PM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: kreen on December 20, 2017, 09:10:55 PM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.

Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

He tours for the same reason as everybody else: to make as much money as possible while they still can. It's the same reason you and I go to work every morning. Sure you may happen to like your work, but would you do it for free?

Don't believe them when they say those tours don't bring them much revenue. That's basic PR to prevent accusations of charging too much for tickets: "we barely make any money as it is, how could we charge less for tickets?" Truth is, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. All of those old rock stars have ex-wives and child support payments and a bunch of people on staff and a bunch of kids they need to leave the biggest estate to.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 20, 2017, 09:26:24 PM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.

Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

He tours for the same reason as everybody else: to make as much money as possible while they still can. It's the same reason you and I go to work every morning. Sure you may happen to like your work, but would you do it for free?

Don't believe them when they say those tours don't bring them much revenue. That's basic PR to prevent accusations of charging too much for tickets: "we barely make any money as it is, how could we charge less for tickets?" Truth is, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. All of those old rock stars have ex-wives and child support payments and a bunch of people on staff and a bunch of kids they need to leave the biggest estate to.

Dude, you need to stop believing the same crowd that has been trying to tell fans Brian should quit playing live shows since 1999. Not coincidentally, a good majority of them on the various forums we all know were posters from the UK.

Not my problem if you haven't interacted with anyone beyond reading bullshit like Doe and company have spread for years. Just don't try to call me out when the facts are readily available, or in some cases, perhaps not as publicly reported.

If BW hated touring, he'd stop touring. Simple as that. Rolling Stone just voted Brian's most recent PS tour one of the best shows of 2017...is that "PR" too? I don't see Mike and Bruce on any such lists for the record.

Since you don't take my word as anything more than buying into PR bullshit, you need to try tracking down others with far deeper personal connections who will report the same thing about Brian's attitude toward touring and accuse them of buying the "PR", ask them what the deal is with Brian's touring, then get the responses and realize it's not PR. But I doubt you'll get the time of day let alone a reply from anyone who actually knows something beyond the rumors and sh*t posted on the PS forum or the now-defunct BBB. Have fun with your delusions, sport.

Just consider every seat sold for a Brian show could be considered cash out of ol' Mike's licensing-fee-paying pocket. Who would it benefit most to try denigrating or challenging anything about Brian's touring that would affect ticket sales? FYI. Think about that one.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2017, 09:47:44 PM
Quote
Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

Didn't know you were Brian and could speak for him.

Quote
Since you don't take my word as anything more than buying into PR bullshit, you need to try tracking down others with far deeper personal connections who will report the same thing about Brian's attitude toward touring and accuse them of buying the "PR", ask them what the deal is with Brian's touring, then get the responses and realize it's not PR

Exactly.

Whether or not Brian is bored of playing Pet Sounds or not does not diminish how he actually feels about performing and how he feels about the crowd.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2017, 09:53:11 PM
And before anyone says anything


Quote
Dude, you need to stop believing the same crowd that has been trying to tell fans Brian should quit playing live shows since 1999. Not coincidentally, a good majority of them on the various forums we all know were posters from the UK.


That is specifically referring to the charlatan Andrew Doe and his acolytes. Oh, and HE stated that Brian's tours LOSE money. Don't believe me, Kreen? I kept every single PM he has ever sent me and can show proof. So if Brian's tours lose money, but he tours only for the money, well...does that make any sense to you?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2017, 11:01:02 PM
Quote
But based on the available info I have, I think it's definitely possible that Foskett wants it and/or is angling for it if only in subtle ways.

Foskett may not be as much of a lynchpin to Mike's organization as he was to Brian's at times, but I don't believe Foskett is just another guy in Mike's band now. He joins Mike for public events (often if not usually without Bruce). Other than Stamos (when Stamos is on tour with them), Foskett seems to be the most prominent public face of the band outside of Mike.

Once there are no more original BB touring, the name should be RETIRED. Period.
That should have happened the day that the 2012 tour ended.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 20, 2017, 11:02:33 PM
Agreed


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on December 20, 2017, 11:54:28 PM
If I had my choice, I would rather see Brian focusing on recording, new material, than touring endlessly, doing Pet Sounds and the greatest hits year after year. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect a 70-something man to continue to create beautiful music, but I remember all the hope, optimism in the air when Brian re-emerged in 1995 after several years off the radar. We got the IJWMFTT soundtrack, OCA, and there was all the talk about the Paley sessions. It was all about moving forward, all the great music he still had in him. Now it all seems to be about the music he made 50 years ago. And I guess that's fine if he has reached the end of the line as a creative artist.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 21, 2017, 12:28:23 AM
If I had my choice, I would rather see Brian focusing on recording, new material, than touring endlessly, doing Pet Sounds and the greatest hits year after year. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect a 70-something man to continue to create beautiful music, but I remember all the hope, optimism in the air when Brian re-emerged in 1995 after several years off the radar. We got the IJWMFTT soundtrack, OCA, and there was all the talk about the Paley sessions. It was all about moving forward, all the great music he still had in him. Now it all seems to be about the music he made 50 years ago. And I guess that's fine if he has reached the end of the line as a creative artist.

I'm with you, actually.  I want to hear new music from Brian more than anything.  Hell, I'd "settle" for him finishing songs from the vault that he wrote. I want to hear studio stuff for Brian.

Failing that, a tour based on the Playback compilation would've been ideal IMHO. Mixture of his best solo work along with his usual setlist? I'd be there in a heartbeat.  That said, I'm just glad he's out there, and if he comes back to Houston, I'm there regardless.  Just being in the same room as him hearing him work his magic? Oh yeah,  can't beat that


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on December 21, 2017, 04:23:46 AM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.

Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

He tours for the same reason as everybody else: to make as much money as possible while they still can. It's the same reason you and I go to work every morning. Sure you may happen to like your work, but would you do it for free?

Don't believe them when they say those tours don't bring them much revenue. That's basic PR to prevent accusations of charging too much for tickets: "we barely make any money as it is, how could we charge less for tickets?" Truth is, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. All of those old rock stars have ex-wives and child support payments and a bunch of people on staff and a bunch of kids they need to leave the biggest estate to.

I don't claim to know Brian's motivation for sure but quoting from a recent interview (from memory so forgive me if it's not exactly correct) he said 'I love my band, I love my bus, I love the tour. I miss the deli though'... and ever since I've had it stuck in my head to the tune of Elton John's Rocket Man ('I miss the earth so much, I miss my wife...').


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 21, 2017, 06:15:33 AM
It's possible for someone to not *need* the money, yet still tour at least in part because it makes them money.

Make no mistake, Brian and his organization have booked a ton of shows in the last few years, and continue to book PS shows, in part because it's lucrative. I think Brian being out on the road is about more than purely making money (which is why he's had some down years like 2014, etc.), but I think they can't *not* dig finally making some good bank on these PS shows.

I wouldn't be surprised if the very early Brian tours didn't turn a huge profit. But make no mistake, these PS shows definitely are making them some good money. There's no way they'd be paying for Al and Blondie full-time unless promoters were putting up some nice advances.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 21, 2017, 06:36:18 AM
Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on December 21, 2017, 07:00:10 AM
Getting back on topic...two questions in regards to Kennedy Center Concert...

Can anybody find what time tickets go on sale tomorrow? I see that information NOWHERE.

Also, I am beginning to doubt the presence of the NSO. I have read on Brian's website press release that he will be joined by the National Symphony Orchestra. I have read on other accounts that he will be joined by HIS ten piece orchestra (his band), and on the Kennedy Center website and description it makes NO mention of the NSO performing.


In about one minute.  The BW website states "Tickets go on sale Thursday, December 21 at 10 a.m. at all Ticketmaster locations"

I wish I knew the answer to the question about the symphony.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 21, 2017, 07:43:13 AM
Well, we're in! I'll be scouring the internet to find out all I can about the NSO's presence in the performance. Got box seats about ten rows back, no one in front of us...$100 each. My grandmother's 74th birthday is May 9th, so I'm taking her down for the evening for her birthday. She hasn't seen any Beach Boys since C50 (And refuses to see Mike and Bruce) so even if it's the same shtick, it'll be nice to see it with someone who hasn't seen it before as this will be my third Pet Sounds show. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to it! Even if it's same old same old, how many days do we get to say we're seeing BRIAN WILSON?!?!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on December 21, 2017, 07:54:57 AM
Even if it's same old same old, how many days do we get to say we're seeing BRIAN WILSON?!?!

My thoughts exactly.  I've seen the Pet Sounds tour a ridiculous amount of times, but given the choice between seeing Brian perform Pet Sounds and NOT seeing Brian perform Pet Sounds, I'll take seeing him, thank you very much. 

I bought tickets too.  I'm kind of scared to tell my husband we're going to see Pet Sounds AGAIN, especially as this means a trip for us. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on December 21, 2017, 07:55:14 AM
Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)

The Kennedy Center website says “featuring The Symphony Orchestra and Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin“


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 21, 2017, 08:03:38 AM
Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)

The Kennedy Center website says “featuring The Symphony Orchestra and Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin“

I'm not trying to be an ass, can you show me where it says that? I cannot find it anywhere on their website. On the event description it cites "and his band" at the top and "joined by former bandmates Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin" at the bottom.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on December 21, 2017, 08:27:18 AM
Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)

The Kennedy Center website says “featuring The Symphony Orchestra and Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin“

I'm not trying to be an ass, can you show me where it says that? I cannot find it anywhere on their website. On the event description it cites "and his band" at the top and "joined by former bandmates Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin" at the bottom.
Not a problem, I’d want to know too, I’m fact i do since it’s probably the only way I’ll buy tickets.

http://www.kennedy-center.org

Go to the bottom it’s under News and Noteworthy on their main site


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 21, 2017, 09:33:14 AM
Thanks for all the responses to my legitimate questions concerning the tour guys, it was so helpful to hear the same old sh*t re-stated over and over again!...  ::)

The Kennedy Center website says “featuring The Symphony Orchestra and Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin“

I'm not trying to be an ass, can you show me where it says that? I cannot find it anywhere on their website. On the event description it cites "and his band" at the top and "joined by former bandmates Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin" at the bottom.
Not a problem, I’d want to know too, I’m fact i do since it’s probably the only way I’ll buy tickets.

http://www.kennedy-center.org

Go to the bottom it’s under News and Noteworthy on their main site

I see now, that's the same press release from Brian's website. I take that to mean that the NSO will be there however, I'm still a little concerned that it makes no mention on the specific event page itself. Typically these things are labeled as "NSO Pops" or something like that. I will print this press release from their website and be back at the ticket counter in a hot second if I walk in the concert hall on May 7th and there is no NSO.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 21, 2017, 10:38:10 AM
I read the advertisements and didn't see "NSO" mentioned anywhere, unless I missed it. I'd contact the ticket office before buying, if the presence or non-presence of the NSO is the issue, and confirm whether or not they will be there.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 21, 2017, 10:46:34 AM
I will print this press release from their website and be back at the ticket counter in a hot second if I walk in the concert hall on May 7th and there is no NSO.

Kind of semi-related hypothetical question here...

I wonder how many ticket buyers did a variation of what you described above when they bought tickets to one of Mike's shows in the past 4 years that ran photos advertising and promoting the show that featured Brian, Al, or the C50 lineup in the press package...only to find out Brian, Al, and C50 were not on stage at the actual Mike show they bought tickets for. A lot of fans simply didn't know the in's and out's of all this as much as the more connected fans, and I always wondered if some did ask for refunds after buying tickets thinking they'd see Brian and Al or C50's lineup as shown in the marketing materials but did not.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 21, 2017, 11:12:04 AM
If one is inclined to spend the money on lawyers and paralegals and other foot soldiers, "disgruntled ticket buyers" can be sought out.

Allegedly/supposedly, when Al did his first "proper" gigs with his "Family & Friends" band at the Strawberry Festival in Florida in February 1999, "confused" ticket buyers were sought out to "prove" that people thought that Daryl Dragon and Owen Elliott looked like "The Beach Boys" to them.

Such scrutiny of course has apparently never been undertaken by BRI when it comes to who might be confused by Mike's shows over the years.

To be clear, I doubt droves of disgruntled/confused ticket buyers has ever been a problem at any BB or BB spinoff show. Tons of BB shows in the 80s used group pics that included Brian when Brian wasn't going to be there.

I do think the C50 thing was a unique situation, and the rather blunt and emotionless press release from Mike "explaining" how his post-C50 shows wouldn't include the other three guys can probably be explained by the fact that they knew that a ton of C50 press material would be floating around in the ether since he was literally ending C50 and then doing a gig *the next day* with his own licensed BB band.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 21, 2017, 11:15:14 AM
I read the advertisements and didn't see "NSO" mentioned anywhere, unless I missed it. I'd contact the ticket office before buying, if the presence or non-presence of the NSO is the issue, and confirm whether or not they will be there.

It's not an enormous issue. I know it's still an over the top high quality engagement. But, it does clearly say "Symphony Orchestra" in Brian's press release. I think I'll call the box office as you suggested.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on December 21, 2017, 12:30:05 PM
I read the advertisements and didn't see "NSO" mentioned anywhere, unless I missed it. I'd contact the ticket office before buying, if the presence or non-presence of the NSO is the issue, and confirm whether or not they will be there.

It's not an enormous issue. I know it's still an over the top high quality engagement. But, it does clearly say "Symphony Orchestra" in Brian's press release. I think I'll call the box office as you suggested.
Please let us know if you find out, I’m wondering if the orchestra will just be a set group playing with Brian on these dates and that’s what they mean, not sure. Several of the Florida gigs site an orchestra that’s with Brian.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mikeddonn on December 24, 2017, 07:15:31 AM
RE: why does brian still tour...i heard an interview with him and was asked why he still tours and he said “it makes me money and it makes people happy”
Sure we will never know but id be curious how much money he has.
In the wilson project he said he was down to 150k or so.
Plus the lawsuit he lost, plus his band has like 12 people in it so he obviously doesnt make as much per show he could. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt have as much as people think and his expenses are high and he wants to make sure he is set for retirement when he cant tour anymore.

Brian Wilson has enough money that he could literally say "f*** it" and do whatever he wants wherever he wants for the rest of his days. The touring and the reactions from the audiences inspires him and he enjoys doing it - Some of the more exotic stops on recent tours like Israel and New Zealand were highlights where he loved playing there. He has said numerous times that once the show got on the road, several decades ago at this point, he discovered he actually enjoyed performing live after pretty much shunning it for years, and with audiences willing to see him and musicians who are perhaps one of the finest groups of musicians playing on the road in the past two decades, he's still doing it.

I'm not trying to blast the comments or the commentator in a personal way by saying this, but if there is a notion out there or if people are trying to say Brian is touring because he needs the money, they are seriously misguided and it's complete bullshit. And I'm not just basing that on assumptions or opinion.

Dude, you need to stop believing all the PR from Brian Wilson's camp. "He enjoys it"? "He's inspired by the audience's reaction"? Have you seen any video from his latest tour? He looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world that on that stage.

He tours for the same reason as everybody else: to make as much money as possible while they still can. It's the same reason you and I go to work every morning. Sure you may happen to like your work, but would you do it for free?

Don't believe them when they say those tours don't bring them much revenue. That's basic PR to prevent accusations of charging too much for tickets: "we barely make any money as it is, how could we charge less for tickets?" Truth is, they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. All of those old rock stars have ex-wives and child support payments and a bunch of people on staff and a bunch of kids they need to leave the biggest estate to.

Dude, you need to stop believing the same crowd that has been trying to tell fans Brian should quit playing live shows since 1999. Not coincidentally, a good majority of them on the various forums we all know were posters from the UK.

Not my problem if you haven't interacted with anyone beyond reading bullshit like Doe and company have spread for years. Just don't try to call me out when the facts are readily available, or in some cases, perhaps not as publicly reported.

But I doubt you'll get the time of day let alone a reply from anyone who actually knows something beyond the rumors and sh*t posted on the PS forum or the now-defunct BBB.

Is that the same UK where fans were/are considered by the Beach Boys as being more 'sophisticated' than the US audiences when it came to sticking with the band when they moved away from fun in the sun music and stayed loyal during the difficult times.  Where Brian decided to premier the SMiLE Tour?  Maybe, like me, a lot of people were annoyed at the excuse for cancelling the NPP Tour.  A tour where the wrong venues were booked in the first place.  I think you are wrong to be critical of UK fans.  You, a moderator on brianwilson.com, call people out for being on Mike's payroll.  Where's your objectivity?  If you have a bias fine, but don't call others out for the same thing.  Just accept it and move on.  If you have a problem with AGD fine, but no need to trash everyone else.  Remember, mods on here were happy to give him chance after chance. Maybe because they liked the fact they thought he was in the know and they were getting info others weren't.  

Personally I love the Beach Boys, especially Brian, and will never pretend to know what these guys think about each other.  No-one, even your insiders, know the true story.  They only know what someone is willing to let them know at a particular moment in time.  It doesn't mean they are getting the full story.  For that reason, I take it all with a pinch of salt and respect the guys as artists.  I haven't bought Unleash the Love yet, unusual for me considering I buy every Beach Boys release as soon as I can.  I love NPP!  I go to see Brian every time and do the same with Mike and Bruce.  I enjoy all the shows.

Also, Beach Boys Britain doesn't seem to be defunct as far as I can see.

Merry Christmas everyone!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2017, 11:05:20 AM
Quote
Is that the same UK were fans were/are considered by the Beach Boys as being more 'sophisticated' than the US audiences when it came to sticking with the band when they moved away from fun in the sun music and stayed loyal during the difficult times.   

Can't speak for him, but I took it as being a certain segment of said fans who are , for lack of a better way to put it, "Doe's Cronies". I myself certainly don't lump all UK fans together, just like I don't lump all US fans together.  If my understanding of it is wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected (as well I should be). But, yeah, to me it came across as a reference to Doe's clique, not a condemnation of all UK fans.

Quote
Remember, mods on here were happy to give him chance after chance. Maybe because they liked the fact they thought he was in the know and they were getting info others weren't. 

This is something I regret terribly. I let my supposed friendship with him (not realizing he was using me/playing me like a damn fiddle)  blind me ...the whole thing where he was threatening Phil Cohen, for instance (just to name one example), I didn't think was true. Had I known that he was threatening people via PM, I wouldn't have let it slide like that. But I didn't think it was true. I regret that.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mikeddonn on December 24, 2017, 12:04:20 PM
Quote
Is that the same UK were fans were/are considered by the Beach Boys as being more 'sophisticated' than the US audiences when it came to sticking with the band when they moved away from fun in the sun music and stayed loyal during the difficult times.   

Can't speak for him, but I took it as being a certain segment of said fans who are , for lack of a better way to put it, "Doe's Cronies". I myself certainly don't lump all UK fans together, just like I don't lump all US fans together.  If my understanding of it is wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected (as well I should be). But, yeah, to me it came across as a reference to Doe's clique, not a condemnation of all UK fans.

Quote
Remember, mods on here were happy to give him chance after chance. Maybe because they liked the fact they thought he was in the know and they were getting info others weren't. 

This is something I regret terribly. I let my supposed friendship with him (not realizing he was using me/playing me like a damn fiddle)  blind me ...the whole thing where he was threatening Phil Cohen, for instance (just to name one example), I didn't think was true. Had I known that he was threatening people via PM, I wouldn't have let it slide like that. But I didn't think it was true. I regret that.

I appreciate your honesty Billy.  I also agree that not all fans are the same.  Plenty of US fans are sophiscated and plenty UK fans want Brian to tour if he wants to.  By the same token, it is wrong to accuse people of having agendas when they express an opinion. It's what these forums are for.  I know people who are fans (not obsessives like me) and they didn't enjoy Brian's interpretation of Pet Sounds during the last UK tour.  They're not on any payroll and keep going back, as I will to both groups' shows.  I will also criticise where I see fit.  Such as fake Brian signatures on merch I've purchased from or Mike for his use of autotune.  Most fans just want to enjoy the music and have a discussion on it without people getting personal and feuds developing.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2017, 01:35:33 PM
As far as the thing goes with the "agenda"...hypothetically speaking....let's say if there was proof that someone who claims to be neutral at one point drew a paycheck or was employed by a certain person (and was an actual employee , not a buddy) who slandered another certain person for the first guy...maybe there was a paycheck stub, or maybe something as small as a LinkedIn profile or Facebook page where this person stated they were an employee of the person in question.  In this pretend scenario, such a person getting paid to do these things suddenly takes on a new meaning and would put things in perspective.

In such a make believe situation,  though,  one must make sure all of their "i"s are dotted and all the "t"s crossed before making such an accusation publicly , of course. But if such  fantasy situation was indeed a reality,  it would definitely speak to an agenda and all the pieces fit.

Hypothetically.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 24, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
To "mikedonn" :

The explanation about getting "chance after chance" has been addressed multiple times including today, which I agree with and experienced too. It's unfortunately a fact of life that people can get taken in by con-artists and people with deeper agendas than expected as happened here until the lid was blown off and it was exposed. So that is and has been a done deal.

If you take issue with me including all UK fans in my calling out of a few rotten apples in the bunch, I'd urge you to read exactly what I wrote and see where I said nothing of the sort. I never would say all fans of any particular region or area were anything other than fans. It just so happened a particular group who happened to be from the UK could be counted on for the most consistently negative comments and complaints whenever the BW crew announced something related to a tour, across multiple forums and boards. I've been following these forums for a very long time, and in the past 5 years that kind of knee-jerk criticism became more consistent and obvious than the previous calls for Brian to hang it up, quit the road, "we're worried our dear Brian is on the road too much!", all that garbage.  Funny how Brian doing just that and quitting the road over a decade ago may have benefited one specific entity licensed through BRI, but I'll leave it at that.

Also, if you have some proof of me saying anyone was "on the payroll", please point me to where I said that too because I don't believe I've ever made that claim here or elsewhere, whether or not it's true in some cases. Meanwhile I've been challenged on who I did or didn't share a drink with in 2015, speak with at concerts, etc. and have had blatant lies told about me or things I did or didn't do. I guess that's OK, Mike, since you don't seem to take issue with that level of scrutiny?

Again, the fair shot is there and the door is open if it can be found in my words that I was referring to *ALL* UK fans. Because I was not as my post here shows, it is simply wrong to try to paint it like I did and respond as if I did, but it's part and parcel of how a group of posters who seem to be aligned with guys like Doe have acted for years. If there is no case to be made to challenge or impugn someone they disagree with or want to see trashed in general, just make sh*t up and run with it. Then spread the word and find gullible fans to believe it. Just like fans were contacted and expected to believe lies that reached into personal lives and even the adoptions of band members' children and their marriages. Mike, I'll let you decide if that's appropriate for historians and self-proclaimed "experts" to engage in via fan forums. We did not think it was and took action. It's gone elsewhere.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mikeddonn on December 24, 2017, 03:39:30 PM
To "mikedonn" :

The explanation about getting "chance after chance" has been addressed multiple times including today, which I agree with and experienced too. It's unfortunately a fact of life that people can get taken in by con-artists and people with deeper agendas than expected as happened here until the lid was blown off and it was exposed. So that is and has been a done deal.

If you take issue with me including all UK fans in my calling out of a few rotten apples in the bunch, I'd urge you to read exactly what I wrote and see where I said nothing of the sort. I never would say all fans of any particular region or area were anything other than fans. It just so happened a particular group who happened to be from the UK could be counted on for the most consistently negative comments and complaints whenever the BW crew announced something related to a tour, across multiple forums and boards. I've been following these forums for a very long time, and in the past 5 years that kind of knee-jerk criticism became more consistent and obvious than the previous calls for Brian to hang it up, quit the road, "we're worried our dear Brian is on the road too much!", all that garbage.  Funny how Brian doing just that and quitting the road over a decade ago may have benefited one specific entity licensed through BRI, but I'll leave it at that.

Also, if you have some proof of me saying anyone was "on the payroll", please point me to where I said that too because I don't believe I've ever made that claim here or elsewhere, whether or not it's true in some cases. Meanwhile I've been challenged on who I did or didn't share a drink with in 2015, speak with at concerts, etc. and have had blatant lies told about me or things I did or didn't do. I guess that's OK, Mike, since you don't seem to take issue with that level of scrutiny?

Again, the fair shot is there and the door is open if it can be found in my words that I was referring to *ALL* UK fans. Because I was not as my post here shows, it is simply wrong to try to paint it like I did and respond as if I did, but it's part and parcel of how a group of posters who seem to be aligned with guys like Doe have acted for years. If there is no case to be made to challenge or impugn someone they disagree with or want to see trashed in general, just make sh*t up and run with it. Then spread the word and find gullible fans to believe it. Just like fans were contacted and expected to believe lies that reached into personal lives and even the adoptions of band members' children and their marriages. Mike, I'll let you decide if that's appropriate for historians and self-proclaimed "experts" to engage in via fan forums. We did not think it was and took action. It's gone elsewhere.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!



Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I know you were referring to only a handful of UK fans.  Regarding the payroll claim.  I'm not going to spend time on Christmas Eve trying to find it but you have certainly alluded to Doe and maybe Cam Mott being on the payroll. Maybe someone else might know where to find the quotes?

I don't think threats, etc are acceptable anywhere.  We'll have to take your word this stuff happened because we don't have the PMs.  I also don't find personal insults to be acceptable, you seem to and do it often against people.  Maybe you have your reasons but you need to let it go at some point.  When those posters left here you should have ignored them and stopped referring to them here.  That makes you no better than anyone else if you don't rise above it. 

You like evidence?  Show me evidence that posters were saying Brian should quit the road in 1999?  He hadn't even toured the UK by then.  I also don't think those group of UK fans you refer to would have preferred to have Mike tour and make money before Brian since they were getting backstage passes to Brian's shows and access to band members etc.  Brian gigs were also cooler to be at than Mike gigs.  Why would anyone want to jeopardise that? It doesn't make sense.

As for who you hang out with at concerts it's your business.  Except when people may feel you are taking sides.  Personally I don't care as it is all petty stuff.  You seem to hate Mike Love more than Brian Wilson does.  Brian might not hate Mike at all, unless you've heard he does from an insider?  Have you met Mike personally?  I don't think Mike is worth getting worked up about.  He can try all he wants to rewrite history but it ain't gonna happen.  You should take solace in that and move on.  Brian doesn't need anyone to fight his battles.  The audience on here is so small as to not make much difference to perceptions the public at large already have.  Raise a glass to that over the festive season!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2017, 04:33:04 PM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2017, 04:39:25 PM
On a different note...how about that upcoming tour? If he comes to Houston I probably will go.  I've never seen Pet Sounds live before so there's reason enough there, but with it being the 50th anniversary of Friends coming up, I wish there would be something to commemorate that. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: mikeddonn on December 24, 2017, 05:19:41 PM
On a different note...how about that upcoming tour? If he comes to Houston I probably will go.  I've never seen Pet Sounds live before so there's reason enough there, but with it being the 50th anniversary of Friends coming up, I wish there would be something to commemorate that. 

I'll second that.  I would love to see Friends performed and Love You!  The Wild Honey section last year was fabulous.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 24, 2017, 07:08:14 PM
That's what I'm hoping for. I want to hear stuff I haven't heard before live. And yeah that includes most of pet sounds but the idea of hearing Friends live brings a smile to my face


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on December 25, 2017, 12:43:35 AM
That's what I'm hoping for. I want to hear stuff I haven't heard before live. And yeah that includes most of pet sounds but the idea of hearing Friends live brings a smile to my face
Friends was an album that sold even less than Wild Honey, and we didn't get Wild Honey live, so I seriously doubt we'll get a Friends tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 25, 2017, 12:49:20 AM
Yeah I know.  Just would hope for something like Brian doing little bird. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on December 25, 2017, 06:43:47 AM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?





Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on December 25, 2017, 09:12:01 AM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 25, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)

And we're happy that you are :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 25, 2017, 11:13:06 AM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)

And we're happy that you are :)

I second that!  :)  Still standing indeed!

And I'll add that as long as this board and the BW board will exist, those idiots who went after good people, regular posters, and fans like Ang on these boards will always be banned for life. No matter what aliases they try to reappear as, they'll be banned again. No matter who their friends are or how much "knowledge" they claim to possess or what aliases they use to try to sneak back, they're not welcome.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on December 25, 2017, 11:31:10 AM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)

And we're happy that you are :)

I second that!  :)  Still standing indeed!

And I'll add that as long as this board and the BW board will exist, those idiots who went after good people, regular posters, and fans like Ang on these boards will always be banned for life. No matter what aliases they try to reappear as, they'll be banned again. No matter who their friends are or how much "knowledge" they claim to possess or what aliases they use to try to sneak back, they're not welcome.

Thanks Billy and Guitarfool! Your support of myself and anyone else who was/is bullied on this board and Brian's own MB is exemplary.  I believe I know why AGD made this particular comment about me. He had been posting about a birthday message that had been flashed up at one of M&B's shows for a lady with whom I have no problems whatsoever.  He was posting about it because he had arranged it - the usual self-aggrandisement which is why I responded with a post about the time Brian and his band had actually sung Happy Birthday to a fan in Gateshead. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so catty - no offence whatsoever to the recipient of M&B's message. Had this been a solitary incident perhaps I'd have risen above it. I'm not scared of Andrew. But I know of several people who have been put off posting because of fear of being - not disappeared perhaps but certainly demeaned.

But it's Christmas. Time to be grateful for all the good people who post here out of love of the music and a wish to learn more about it and the people responsible for creating and performing it. This place can and hopefully will continue to survive the loss of those who try to turn it into something less pleasant. Merry Christmas Smiley Smilers - or whatever celebration it is for you. For all of us it's a celebration of some beautiful music.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 25, 2017, 11:32:33 AM
To "mikedonn" :

The explanation about getting "chance after chance" has been addressed multiple times including today, which I agree with and experienced too. It's unfortunately a fact of life that people can get taken in by con-artists and people with deeper agendas than expected as happened here until the lid was blown off and it was exposed. So that is and has been a done deal.

If you take issue with me including all UK fans in my calling out of a few rotten apples in the bunch, I'd urge you to read exactly what I wrote and see where I said nothing of the sort. I never would say all fans of any particular region or area were anything other than fans. It just so happened a particular group who happened to be from the UK could be counted on for the most consistently negative comments and complaints whenever the BW crew announced something related to a tour, across multiple forums and boards. I've been following these forums for a very long time, and in the past 5 years that kind of knee-jerk criticism became more consistent and obvious than the previous calls for Brian to hang it up, quit the road, "we're worried our dear Brian is on the road too much!", all that garbage.  Funny how Brian doing just that and quitting the road over a decade ago may have benefited one specific entity licensed through BRI, but I'll leave it at that.

Also, if you have some proof of me saying anyone was "on the payroll", please point me to where I said that too because I don't believe I've ever made that claim here or elsewhere, whether or not it's true in some cases. Meanwhile I've been challenged on who I did or didn't share a drink with in 2015, speak with at concerts, etc. and have had blatant lies told about me or things I did or didn't do. I guess that's OK, Mike, since you don't seem to take issue with that level of scrutiny?

Again, the fair shot is there and the door is open if it can be found in my words that I was referring to *ALL* UK fans. Because I was not as my post here shows, it is simply wrong to try to paint it like I did and respond as if I did, but it's part and parcel of how a group of posters who seem to be aligned with guys like Doe have acted for years. If there is no case to be made to challenge or impugn someone they disagree with or want to see trashed in general, just make sh*t up and run with it. Then spread the word and find gullible fans to believe it. Just like fans were contacted and expected to believe lies that reached into personal lives and even the adoptions of band members' children and their marriages. Mike, I'll let you decide if that's appropriate for historians and self-proclaimed "experts" to engage in via fan forums. We did not think it was and took action. It's gone elsewhere.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!



Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I know you were referring to only a handful of UK fans.  Regarding the payroll claim.  I'm not going to spend time on Christmas Eve trying to find it but you have certainly alluded to Doe and maybe Cam Mott being on the payroll. Maybe someone else might know where to find the quotes?

I don't think threats, etc are acceptable anywhere.  We'll have to take your word this stuff happened because we don't have the PMs.  I also don't find personal insults to be acceptable, you seem to and do it often against people.  Maybe you have your reasons but you need to let it go at some point.  When those posters left here you should have ignored them and stopped referring to them here.  That makes you no better than anyone else if you don't rise above it. 

You like evidence?  Show me evidence that posters were saying Brian should quit the road in 1999?  He hadn't even toured the UK by then.  I also don't think those group of UK fans you refer to would have preferred to have Mike tour and make money before Brian since they were getting backstage passes to Brian's shows and access to band members etc.  Brian gigs were also cooler to be at than Mike gigs.  Why would anyone want to jeopardise that? It doesn't make sense.

As for who you hang out with at concerts it's your business.  Except when people may feel you are taking sides.  Personally I don't care as it is all petty stuff.  You seem to hate Mike Love more than Brian Wilson does.  Brian might not hate Mike at all, unless you've heard he does from an insider?  Have you met Mike personally?  I don't think Mike is worth getting worked up about.  He can try all he wants to rewrite history but it ain't gonna happen.  You should take solace in that and move on.  Brian doesn't need anyone to fight his battles.  The audience on here is so small as to not make much difference to perceptions the public at large already have.  Raise a glass to that over the festive season!

As Billy said, we do have the info you're questioning, the relevant info was posted already, and some that were too personal were deliberately left off the public view but the involved parties were informed where appropriate. Anyone who doubts any of this, it's already been in the open for over a year now. Unfortunately I think the original file host went belly-up in the meantime or has changed platforms, so a lot of uploaded photos besides those in question are not readable in posts as they had been. But they can be re-upped.

Maybe some other long-term posters and members can reach into their better memory banks for the examples of Brian's touring coming into question, because I know I've been reading such comments for a very long time but cannot recall each instance or post going back 15 years or so.  ;D

I would suggest if you want to see one prime example that wasn't even on the boards but in a court of law, read through the 2005 lawsuit Mike filed (and eventually lost including all appeals) against Brian, Melinda, David Leaf, et al and you'll see comments about the quality of Brian's live shows being sub-par, how Brian's mental issues hampered the shows and harmed the "brand" for which Mike was the torch-bearer (according to the suit), how Al "bastardized" the brand name, and all kinds of nice (sarcasm, there...) comments from Mike. And at the time of that filing, the Smile tour was the tour of note, the one which garnered rave reviews from all corners and which Rolling Stone just named one of the best tours in rock history...but apparently Mike thought otherwise and put his negative opinions and criticisms of that and other BW tours into the public record through the court system. And it's funny how the fan-forum criticisms I've cited seemed to follow that lawsuit apart from whatever existed before, about BW and the tours. So there's that, too.

I have also never charged Doe or Mott with being on the payroll in any posts I can recall. Just like I never accused Jim Hirsch of plagiarism, even though several posters took to other forums accusing me of that. But like I said, it's been a case for years where if the facts don't fit the goal, just make sh*t up and run with it. The best part about having and knowing the actual truth is there is no substitute.

So Mike, if anything like the things you cited are in doubt, just ask. You'll get the real story and the facts from me, and from Billy, instead of reading and believing whatever crap and lies have been posted on the PS forum, the Hoffman board, Facebook groups, etc.

And above all, my best wishes for a Merry Christmas!



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 25, 2017, 11:33:48 AM
Regarding the thing about the threats. ..they're in the sandbox thread where his ban was announced. Told Cohen he was going to track him down and burn his house down. Told me (in a pm I never read at the time) that he found where Ang Jones lives and not to be surprised if she "disappeared ". Just two examples.

I'm the one who made the comment about Doe being on the payroll as a way of needling him for getting his freebies, comped tickets,  and such,  although I do not know if he got paid in cash for his "assistance"....he was not the one I was referring to above as I have no idea of he himself is on a retainer.

I'm still standing as someone once sang! :-)

And we're happy that you are :)

I second that!  :)  Still standing indeed!

And I'll add that as long as this board and the BW board will exist, those idiots who went after good people, regular posters, and fans like Ang on these boards will always be banned for life. No matter what aliases they try to reappear as, they'll be banned again. No matter who their friends are or how much "knowledge" they claim to possess or what aliases they use to try to sneak back, they're not welcome.

Thanks Billy and Guitarfool! Your support of myself and anyone else who was/is bullied on this board and Brian's own MB is exemplary.  I believe I know why AGD made this particular comment about me. He had been posting about a birthday message that had been flashed up at one of M&B's shows for a lady with whom I have no problems whatsoever.  He was posting about it because he had arranged it - the usual self-aggrandisement which is why I responded with a post about the time Brian and his band had actually sung Happy Birthday to a fan in Gateshead. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so catty - no offence whatsoever to the recipient of M&B's message. Had this been a solitary incident perhaps I'd have risen above it. I'm not scared of Andrew. But I know of several people who have been put off posting because of fear of being - not disappeared perhaps but certainly demeaned.

But it's Christmas. Time to be grateful for all the good people who post here out of love of the music and a wish to learn more about it and the people responsible for creating and performing it. This place can and hopefully will continue to survive the loss of those who try to turn it into something less pleasant. Merry Christmas Smiley Smilers - or whatever celebration it is for you. For all of us it's a celebration of some beautiful music.


Cheers, Ang! And Merry Christmas!  :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 25, 2017, 02:15:00 PM
To "mikedonn" :

The explanation about getting "chance after chance" has been addressed multiple times including today, which I agree with and experienced too. It's unfortunately a fact of life that people can get taken in by con-artists and people with deeper agendas than expected as happened here until the lid was blown off and it was exposed. So that is and has been a done deal.

If you take issue with me including all UK fans in my calling out of a few rotten apples in the bunch, I'd urge you to read exactly what I wrote and see where I said nothing of the sort. I never would say all fans of any particular region or area were anything other than fans. It just so happened a particular group who happened to be from the UK could be counted on for the most consistently negative comments and complaints whenever the BW crew announced something related to a tour, across multiple forums and boards. I've been following these forums for a very long time, and in the past 5 years that kind of knee-jerk criticism became more consistent and obvious than the previous calls for Brian to hang it up, quit the road, "we're worried our dear Brian is on the road too much!", all that garbage.  Funny how Brian doing just that and quitting the road over a decade ago may have benefited one specific entity licensed through BRI, but I'll leave it at that.

Also, if you have some proof of me saying anyone was "on the payroll", please point me to where I said that too because I don't believe I've ever made that claim here or elsewhere, whether or not it's true in some cases. Meanwhile I've been challenged on who I did or didn't share a drink with in 2015, speak with at concerts, etc. and have had blatant lies told about me or things I did or didn't do. I guess that's OK, Mike, since you don't seem to take issue with that level of scrutiny?

Again, the fair shot is there and the door is open if it can be found in my words that I was referring to *ALL* UK fans. Because I was not as my post here shows, it is simply wrong to try to paint it like I did and respond as if I did, but it's part and parcel of how a group of posters who seem to be aligned with guys like Doe have acted for years. If there is no case to be made to challenge or impugn someone they disagree with or want to see trashed in general, just make sh*t up and run with it. Then spread the word and find gullible fans to believe it. Just like fans were contacted and expected to believe lies that reached into personal lives and even the adoptions of band members' children and their marriages. Mike, I'll let you decide if that's appropriate for historians and self-proclaimed "experts" to engage in via fan forums. We did not think it was and took action. It's gone elsewhere.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!



Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I know you were referring to only a handful of UK fans.  Regarding the payroll claim.  I'm not going to spend time on Christmas Eve trying to find it but you have certainly alluded to Doe and maybe Cam Mott being on the payroll. Maybe someone else might know where to find the quotes?

I don't think threats, etc are acceptable anywhere.  We'll have to take your word this stuff happened because we don't have the PMs.  I also don't find personal insults to be acceptable, you seem to and do it often against people.  Maybe you have your reasons but you need to let it go at some point.  When those posters left here you should have ignored them and stopped referring to them here.  That makes you no better than anyone else if you don't rise above it. 

You like evidence?  Show me evidence that posters were saying Brian should quit the road in 1999?  He hadn't even toured the UK by then.  I also don't think those group of UK fans you refer to would have preferred to have Mike tour and make money before Brian since they were getting backstage passes to Brian's shows and access to band members etc.  Brian gigs were also cooler to be at than Mike gigs.  Why would anyone want to jeopardise that? It doesn't make sense.

As for who you hang out with at concerts it's your business.  Except when people may feel you are taking sides.  Personally I don't care as it is all petty stuff.  You seem to hate Mike Love more than Brian Wilson does.  Brian might not hate Mike at all, unless you've heard he does from an insider?  Have you met Mike personally?  I don't think Mike is worth getting worked up about.  He can try all he wants to rewrite history but it ain't gonna happen.  You should take solace in that and move on.  Brian doesn't need anyone to fight his battles.  The audience on here is so small as to not make much difference to perceptions the public at large already have.  Raise a glass to that over the festive season!

As Billy said, we do have the info you're questioning, the relevant info was posted already, and some that were too personal were deliberately left off the public view but the involved parties were informed where appropriate. Anyone who doubts any of this, it's already been in the open for over a year now. Unfortunately I think the original file host went belly-up in the meantime or has changed platforms, so a lot of uploaded photos besides those in question are not readable in posts as they had been. But they can be re-upped.

Maybe some other long-term posters and members can reach into their better memory banks for the examples of Brian's touring coming into question, because I know I've been reading such comments for a very long time but cannot recall each instance or post going back 15 years or so.  ;D

I would suggest if you want to see one prime example that wasn't even on the boards but in a court of law, read through the 2005 lawsuit Mike filed (and eventually lost including all appeals) against Brian, Melinda, David Leaf, et al and you'll see comments about the quality of Brian's live shows being sub-par, how Brian's mental issues hampered the shows and harmed the "brand" for which Mike was the torch-bearer (according to the suit), how Al "bastardized" the brand name, and all kinds of nice (sarcasm, there...) comments from Mike. And at the time of that filing, the Smile tour was the tour of note, the one which garnered rave reviews from all corners and which Rolling Stone just named one of the best tours in rock history...but apparently Mike thought otherwise and put his negative opinions and criticisms of that and other BW tours into the public record through the court system. And it's funny how the fan-forum criticisms I've cited seemed to follow that lawsuit apart from whatever existed before, about BW and the tours. So there's that, too.

I have also never charged Doe or Mott with being on the payroll in any posts I can recall. Just like I never accused Jim Hirsch of plagiarism, even though several posters took to other forums accusing me of that. But like I said, it's been a case for years where if the facts don't fit the goal, just make sh*t up and run with it. The best part about having and knowing the actual truth is there is no substitute.

So Mike, if anything like the things you cited are in doubt, just ask. You'll get the real story and the facts from me, and from Billy, instead of reading and believing whatever crap and lies have been posted on the PS forum, the Hoffman board, Facebook groups, etc.

And above all, my best wishes for a Merry Christmas!



I still have everything saved to my hard drive with back ups.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on December 25, 2017, 06:56:09 PM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?




The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: sensiblechuckle on December 25, 2017, 07:50:40 PM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?




The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.


I like immediately after that, where they talk about the LA Light Album disco version and Al tenses up.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 25, 2017, 11:36:43 PM
I got a huge crack over that...the look on Al's face is epic.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 26, 2017, 09:10:08 AM
Brian sounded great on that little bit of HCTN; I was hoping he might work that one up for the live show. He still could, of course.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on December 26, 2017, 12:59:05 PM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?




The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.
I did see this not too long ago but thanks for that. By the sound of Brian doing that bit, I think they ought to include it. It's also my favorite from WH.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on December 26, 2017, 01:02:55 PM
Not to sound like a stick in the mud, but is anyone else slightly annoyed that these Pet Sounds dates are still happening? They've been saying it's the "final" performances for the last two years, when it's obvious that these aren't the final performances of PS.

It's fantastic Brian and his band are still touring, but saying that it's a "final" performance of Pet Sounds for the past two years creates a false sense of urgency to concertgoers — esp. since he's coming back to the same cities.

I feel the same way. The late 2016 shows were billed as "final", then the tour was extended a full year, appearing in many of the same cities. I really believed that 2017 would be the end of the tour. But then the VERY next tour is ANOTHER Pet Sounds tour??? I love Pet Sounds, and I love Brian's shows, but he really seemed bored at the 2017 show I attended. I'm grateful for any tour, but I think that both Brian and his fans would enjoy something new. Maybe even another Smile tour.


My feelings exactly.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on December 26, 2017, 01:04:53 PM

The brand will indeed almost surely be licensed in some form or another. I don't know if we'd see Totten still doing it 30 years from now. I don't know his exact age, but I'd have to imagine he's nearing 50 right now.

Based on a variety of factors and pieces of information, I think Foskett could well be angling for the license once Mike is done.


just don't let it be Mark McGrath.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: tpesky on December 26, 2017, 06:32:17 PM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?




The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.

That is one of my favorite Brian/Al moments ever. The look of horror on both of their faces discussing the disco version and the NOOOOOO


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 26, 2017, 06:39:47 PM
:lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on December 27, 2017, 05:24:16 PM
Wow - look at all I missed over the Holiday!

I think most of us with a certain perspective never asked for freebies in exchange for commentary on any MB, nor anywhere else - because we understood the idea of quid-pro-quo and didn't want to be involved in that. We enjoyed buying the tickets in support of people we love, and wanted to honestly answer that we were there for the joy and could state under oath that there was no "pay-back".  There were others of Brian's friends who were invited backstage, etc. because Brian loved them and it was a great thing for them to be there for support before and after shows - he considers many friends as part of his family.

One might wonder if there were exchanges from one-time BW band member(s) and certain fans.  I'm making no claims.  There was just an odd pattern of supporting Brian by certain fans, then trashing him when the source of the goodies seems to have dried up.  It could mean nothing, but other fans seem to continue to support the BW band without those certain advantages and continue to love the shows.

I haven't a clue what any BB (licensed) band loyalists might have been offered or given - or not. Again, happily, I have no idea, and never will.  Maybe they purely visit Klub Kokomo out of love.  I have no association whatsoever.

As far as the attacks on Ang and Craig over the years, I know the people who give so, so much and ask nothing.  That's why I pay attention to what they say, while not so much, others.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2017, 05:34:13 PM
Happy Holidays to all. Has Brian ever sung HCTN live? Any sessions or takes?




The closest you'll get is this soundcheck:

https://youtu.be/1d-k31-sn-s?t=2m9s

Brian sits down at the piano at about 2:09, bangs out some lines of Don't Worry Baby and a little bit of Here Comes the Night, which he discusses with Al. He looks so damn relaxed here, he was definitely having a good day.

That is one of my favorite Brian/Al moments ever. The look of horror on both of their faces discussing the disco version and the NOOOOOO

It is a HILARIOUS moment indeed. I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 27, 2017, 07:16:21 PM
... I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!

Side note, but...the way people talk about disco HCTN, you'd think not only that it didn't chart but that it sold at 'Summer In Paradise' levels. I'm not defending it, but just expressing how surprised I was to find out that it was relatively successful. Apparently, it only reached #48 on the disco Top 80, but it did reach #44 on the Hot 100 and #37 in the UK.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2017, 08:23:33 PM
... I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!

Side note, but...the way people talk about disco HCTN, you'd think not only that it didn't chart but that it sold at 'Summer In Paradise' levels. I'm not defending it, but just expressing how surprised I was to find out that it was relatively successful. Apparently, it only reached #48 on the disco Top 80, but it did reach #44 on the Hot 100 and #37 in the UK.

But didn't the band receive tons of jeers and loud booing when they played it, causing them to retire it almost immediately?  That probably stung more than anything else, because I don't imagine that's ever happened to them before or since…

I have recently re-evaluated my own feelings on the song, and I definitely like it more now than I did previously. It grew on me over the years.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 27, 2017, 08:27:22 PM
I was fine with it apart from the strings and those blasted monkey sounds


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 27, 2017, 09:38:22 PM
... I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!

Side note, but...the way people talk about disco HCTN, you'd think not only that it didn't chart but that it sold at 'Summer In Paradise' levels. I'm not defending it, but just expressing how surprised I was to find out that it was relatively successful. Apparently, it only reached #48 on the disco Top 80, but it did reach #44 on the Hot 100 and #37 in the UK.

But didn't the band receive tons of jeers and loud booing when they played it, causing them to retire it almost immediately?  That probably stung more than anything else, because I don't imagine that's ever happened to them before or since…

I have recently re-evaluated my own feelings on the song, and I definitely like it more now than I did previously. It grew on me over the years.

Yes, they were booed and they dropped it from the setlist as a result. Still, if they were stung, I'd think it was more the venue (Radio City Music Hall) than the booing itself. As Carlin wrote in Catch A Wave, "they had long since learned how to adjust their own interests to suit the audience's expectations." All I was saying, though, was that I was surprised that it sold as well as it did considering its reputation. Consider how many BBs singles performed worse in the 70s and 80s.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 27, 2017, 10:56:17 PM
... I wonder how much of Al's horror has to do with the reception it got, which he perhaps is still reeling from on some level. If that version had been a hit, no way he'd have acted like this!

Side note, but...the way people talk about disco HCTN, you'd think not only that it didn't chart but that it sold at 'Summer In Paradise' levels. I'm not defending it, but just expressing how surprised I was to find out that it was relatively successful. Apparently, it only reached #48 on the disco Top 80, but it did reach #44 on the Hot 100 and #37 in the UK.

But didn't the band receive tons of jeers and loud booing when they played it, causing them to retire it almost immediately?  That probably stung more than anything else, because I don't imagine that's ever happened to them before or since…

I have recently re-evaluated my own feelings on the song, and I definitely like it more now than I did previously. It grew on me over the years.

Yes, they were booed and they dropped it from the setlist as a result. Still, if they were stung, I'd think it was more the venue (Radio City Music Hall) than the booing itself. As Carlin wrote in Catch A Wave, "they had long since learned how to adjust their own interests to suit the audience's expectations." All I was saying, though, was that I was surprised that it sold as well as it did considering its reputation. Consider how many BBs singles performed worse in the 70s and 80s.

That is indeed a good point.  Considering it's reputation,  I would have guessed lower too.

I wonder how much the disco backlash, which I think is largely rooted in toxic masculinity, played into the poor reception of this song by this particular band. I realize that many people didn't expect disco from this band, and many simply didn't want disco from this band, but I think the extreme reaction might of been due to some perceived threat that it came to some across as... a band that was viewed as a very American and male type of stereotype was suddenly going along with a genre that was often associated with gays and women.  I say this because the band explored many other genres without quite the same backlash before.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 27, 2017, 11:20:02 PM
I'll never get why disco was such a bad idea. I mean, the Bee Gees pulled it off, and there are a fair amount of similarities between the two groups. If anything,  the issue is 1)timing, and 2) it was a very poor attempt at disco


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on December 27, 2017, 11:34:36 PM
I'll never get why disco was such a bad idea. I mean, the Bee Gees pulled it off, and there are a fair amount of similarities between the two groups. If anything,  the issue is 1)timing, and 2) it was a very poor attempt at disco
I think the problem was, it sounded like a generic disco track with the Beach Boys voices overdubbed on top of it. There was a way to make a disco-flavored track that still retained the unique sound of a band: the Rolling Stones had "Miss You"; the Kinks had "(Wish I Could Fly Like) Superman"; and Wings did "Goodnight Tonight", which had Latin touches to it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 27, 2017, 11:50:39 PM
Yup...that'd fall under the second point. Finally heard the single version and it sounded hacked to death. sh*t, I'd have booed too! But yeah I keep repeating this, but those blasted monkeys summed up just how lousy the production was


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 28, 2017, 01:19:19 AM
I wonder if the sales were more related to people buying anything related to disco rather than fans of the group itself? As mentioned, 60s artists such as the Bee Gees, Stones and others had success. Another was The Four Seasons. Why couldn’t the Beach Boys? Aside from the production, I have always said they missed the disco wave by 2 years.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 28, 2017, 06:22:15 AM
I wonder if the sales were more related to people buying anything related to disco rather than fans of the group itself? As mentioned, 60s artists such as the Bee Gees, Stones and others had success. Another was The Four Seasons. Why couldn’t the Beach Boys? Aside from the production, I have always said they missed the disco wave by 2 years.

I think other rock bands did the disco thing much much better.  Kiss, the Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, etc had disco hits, but it still sounded like them.  Plus, they were new songs, not a discofied retread. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 28, 2017, 06:46:41 AM
Regarding playing the disco version of HCTN at Radio City Music Hall in 1979, while it may not have gone over well and some may have even booed one or more of the performances (they did a four-night run at the venue as I recall), it's worth noting that at least one audience recording of one of the Radio City gigs floats around, and there are no audible boos from the audience at the end of (or during) "Here Comes the Night." I remember listening to the recording, knowing the "booing" stories, and waiting for it at the end of the song, and being surprised to hear pretty normal audience applause/cheering.

Maybe the boos were in a different part of the theater, or maybe the boos were worse at one of the other gigs (I'm not even sure if HCTN survived all four nights). But I find it interesting that the recording I've heard sounds pretty normal.

The band hadn't completely soured on the track that quickly though, apparently. They did the song a couple months later on "Midnight Special."


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 28, 2017, 07:13:41 AM
Regarding playing the disco version of HCTN at Radio City Music Hall in 1979, while it may not have gone over well and some may have even booed one or more of the performances (they did a four-night run at the venue as I recall), it's worth noting that at least one audience recording of one of the Radio City gigs floats around, and there are no audible boos from the audience at the end of (or during) "Here Comes the Night." I remember listening to the recording, knowing the "booing" stories, and waiting for it at the end of the song, and being surprised to hear pretty normal audience applause/cheering.

Maybe the boos were in a different part of the theater, or maybe the boos were worse at one of the other gigs (I'm not even sure if HCTN survived all four nights). But I find it interesting that the recording I've heard sounds pretty normal.

The band hadn't completely soured on the track that quickly though, apparently. They did the song a couple months later on "Midnight Special."

Thanks for the insight. The "booing" story varies a little from book to book, so I've wondered how severe the booing actually was. Also worth considering is that disco HCTN had only just been released at the time of the Radio City Music Hall shows (entered the charts at #83 on 3/3), meanwhile the song had peaked at #44 just a week or two prior to the Midnight Special TV show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Tony S on December 28, 2017, 08:06:25 AM
I was lucky enough to have attended 2 of the Radio City shows back in 79...I think they did 3, but might have been only the 2. I don't recall serious booing during or after HCTN Disco song, but I do remember more of a collective groan from the crowd....more like an "ugh" Regardless, they were greats shows, and I vividly remember a crocked Dennis knocking over a tray of beer very close to, and perhaps onto, Mike Love! I remember Dennis laughing...seemed to be the only member of the band who was! Typical Dennis.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 28, 2017, 08:39:49 AM
I was lucky enough to have attended 2 of the Radio City shows back in 79...I think they did 3, but might have been only the 2. I don't recall serious booing during or after HCTN Disco song, but I do remember more of a collective groan from the crowd....more like an "ugh" Regardless, they were greats shows, and I vividly remember a crocked Dennis knocking over a tray of beer very close to, and perhaps onto, Mike Love! I remember Dennis laughing...seemed to be the only member of the band who was! Typical Dennis.

Very cool, Tony S! Thanks for sharing. I never tire of hearing fan recollections, particularly of '70s concerts! I notice Dennis sang You Are So Beautiful at two of (or all ?) the shows. Since we don't have a studio recording of YASB, I'm always interested in finding that definitive live version.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 28, 2017, 09:28:48 AM
Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 28, 2017, 09:44:55 AM
Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.

I misread some previous info the same way. Glad to have the record straight on this. It's a tad more puzzling that Al would be that put off by Brian mentioning the disco version (even jokingly so), but I guess he's probably just got not the most positive recollections and associations with that song. I wonder if Al would recall the 1992 Surfin' in the same way, if he's ever even heard it all the way through.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: B.E. on December 28, 2017, 10:12:49 AM
Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.

In some cases, more than implied. Yeah, there are a few setlists that suggest the song was still being performed, at least sporadically. It certainly wasn't history after one show. Not a big deal, just interesting.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 28, 2017, 10:35:12 AM
Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 28, 2017, 10:37:55 AM
Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.


A lesson the Beach Boys, and their members, learned a few times. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on December 28, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
I wonder if some of the booing was from Dennis?  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 28, 2017, 11:59:15 AM
Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.


A lesson the Beach Boys, and their members, learned a few times. 

I wonder if Al just outright hated disco in general, or if this particular track done by this particular band (his own) was simply not to his liking. Mike might have been a disco fan (of ABBA), but that also might just be due to the fact that it tipped the hat to Mike (and Brian's) own song, Do It Again, and less about actually really liking ABBA or disco.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on December 28, 2017, 12:02:07 PM
Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.


A lesson the Beach Boys, and their members, learned a few times. 

I wonder if Al just outright hated disco in general, or if this particular track done by this particular band (his own) was simply not to his liking. Mike might have been a disco fan (of ABBA), but that also might just be due to the fact that it tipped the hat to Mike (and Brian's) own song, Do It Again, and less about actually really liking ABBA or disco.

Considering Al was opting to sing covers of old rock and roll songs around this time, I'm thinking he wasn't a fan of disco (and I can't really say I blame him).  I could see any guitarist in a rock band taking issues with his band taking their music into the disco / club.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on December 28, 2017, 01:53:35 PM
Oddly - bear with me - I'm trying to remember when I THINK Brian first heard the disco version HCTN. I remember when they invited him into the studio first to hear the final mix of "Good Timin'."  I enjoyed it but he showed no interest in it.  Whenever he was around the BBs as a band then, he didn't seem to want to be around.  If his brothers visited socially, he seemed fine, but....he loved them.

As I remember things after that, he was shortly out of the hospital and staying at a hotel/condo (nice but weird) place in Westwood before they found him a house in Santa Monica Canyon. I remember a copy of the record appearing - I'm pretty certain it was pre-release.  They (meaning Korthof or some of the other employees) played it for Brian. I was horrified when it came to the disco version to HCTN, so I'm afraid to project my sense of it onto him.  Let's just say he showed no interest in any of it.  That I feel certain of.  He was pretty much stuck in the room, but he had tuned out.  I do feel comfortable saying he never wanted to hear it again, so...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 28, 2017, 03:17:35 PM
Thank you for that recollection. ... considering how the original song was one of his best songs, productions,  and vocals after Pet Sounds (actually it's my top 10 of any period) I'd feel insulted if I was him. I LOVE HCTN, personally.

With this perspective,  seeing him in this clip becomes even more endearing


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 28, 2017, 03:22:19 PM
Oddly - bear with me - I'm trying to remember when I THINK Brian first heard the disco version HCTN. I remember when they invited him into the studio first to hear the final mix of "Good Timin'."  I enjoyed it but he showed no interest in it.  Whenever he was around the BBs as a band then, he didn't seem to want to be around.  If his brothers visited socially, he seemed fine, but....he loved them.

As I remember things after that, he was shortly out of the hospital and staying at a hotel/condo (nice but weird) place in Westwood before they found him a house in Santa Monica Canyon. I remember a copy of the record appearing - I'm pretty certain it was pre-release.  They (meaning Korthof or some of the other employees) played it for Brian. I was horrified when it came to the disco version to HCTN, so I'm afraid to project my sense of it onto him.  Let's just say he showed no interest in any of it.  That I feel certain of.  He was pretty much stuck in the room, but he had tuned out.  I do feel comfortable saying he never wanted to hear it again, so...

That's an amazing recollection to hear, thanks Debbie. I can understand how it must have been a total shock and outside of his comfort zone in terms of genre.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Matt H on December 29, 2017, 01:35:08 PM
Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.

I misread some previous info the same way. Glad to have the record straight on this. It's a tad more puzzling that Al would be that put off by Brian mentioning the disco version (even jokingly so), but I guess he's probably just got not the most positive recollections and associations with that song. I wonder if Al would recall the 1992 Surfin' in the same way, if he's ever even heard it all the way through.

I am sure he has heard '92 Surfin', I saw them play it live with him.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Matt H on December 29, 2017, 01:37:38 PM
Al's comments (the error regarding only performing it once notwithstanding) on the disco HCTN from his 2000 Goldmine interview are interesting:

Tell me about the band's 10-minute disco rendition of "Here Comes The Night" that appeared on the record.

We performed it once and we were booed. We actually received such criticism that we never played it again. I hated that track. It was one of the worst experiences of my life recording anywhere, but Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all.

If I put it on right now would you leave the room?

First I would probably burst out laughing because it was so unlike anything we'd ever done. It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your heart and not the fad.


A lesson the Beach Boys, and their members, learned a few times. 

I wonder if Al just outright hated disco in general, or if this particular track done by this particular band (his own) was simply not to his liking. Mike might have been a disco fan (of ABBA), but that also might just be due to the fact that it tipped the hat to Mike (and Brian's) own song, Do It Again, and less about actually really liking ABBA or disco.

Don't forget that Disco Celebration was recorded.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 29, 2017, 01:58:28 PM
I'm not sure a ton of music lovers even back then loved disco because of its inherent "disco" style. Rather, people liked a lot of disco stuff because it was a hunk of "pop" music at the time.

I think older bands from the 60s tended to appreciate music that maintained some hallmarks of the band and/or were melodic while utilizing some disco elements. So stuff like "Miss You", or McCartney's "Goodnight Tonight", or ELO's "Discovery" album. Those were all cases of the songwriters writing a song, and the resulting arrangement and production having some arguably "disco" element.

None of those cases were like what the BBs did, where it was an uber-calculated decision, made almost outside of the band (remember Bruce had just come back into the fold), and entirely devised and mostly even recorded without much group input. The resulting recording sounded zero like anything the band had been doing recently, and stuck out like as sore thumb even on its own album.

As for why Al (and others) would dislike the track, I think in part it has to do with the song being both more or less outside of his hands, and also the track tanking. I think most of the BBs, even Mike or Brian, tended to put up with one or the other. If a single tanked but they got to do what they wanted to do, they weren't too upset about it. Or, if some outside influence was the main starter behind a song and they had little input, they were still okay to go along with something if it was successful. (Though Mike contradicted this to some degree with TWGMTR).

I would guess someone like Al was already skeptical of HCTN, and then when it not only didn't do well on the charts, but resulted in adverse reactions from audiences (even if grumbling/groaning more than outright booing), it was much easier to be wholly dismissive of the entire thing.

It's also probably part of why Al stayed away from much of "Summer in Paradise", and even later on when doing SIP stuff in concert, Al didn't exactly seem extra enthused performing it.

Note that Al seemed to even try to stay away from doing "Kokomo" with his "Family & Friends" band after he was out of the touring BBs, seeming to only do the song when the venue/audience/event seemed to necessitate it. When he's talked about the song in interviews, he seems happy to point out it was a great shot in the arm for the band, but doesn't exactly jump to saying the song itself is an all-time classic.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on December 29, 2017, 02:12:02 PM
Note that during the BBs 1979 "Midnight Special" appearance, where all six BBs were present, Brian is nowhere to be seen when they do "Here Comes the Night", and Dennis also jumps off the drums and tries to hide next to Carli Munoz doing a little percussion (I recall reading Dennis often completely left the stage when the did the song at actual concerts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANVUu5NiTo


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 29, 2017, 04:40:15 PM
Weirdly, while it has been kind of implied by some over the years (or maybe it's just how *I* interpreted it) that "Here Comes the Night" was dropped from live setlists after the Radio City Music Hall run, it appears the song lasted into April and possibly May.

I misread some previous info the same way. Glad to have the record straight on this. It's a tad more puzzling that Al would be that put off by Brian mentioning the disco version (even jokingly so), but I guess he's probably just got not the most positive recollections and associations with that song. I wonder if Al would recall the 1992 Surfin' in the same way, if he's ever even heard it all the way through.

I am sure he has heard '92 Surfin', I saw them play it live with him.

Right on. I forgot from reading some setlists online long ago that they did play it live a few times. I wonder if it was augmented with some modern early 90s backing track?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: clinikillz on December 30, 2017, 02:18:19 PM
I'm definitely going to see the Pet Sounds show in D.C. in May. I will not miss it this time!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 21, 2018, 09:43:48 AM
I was listening to Sunday With Sinatra with Sid Mark this morning (Philly radio), and a radio ad for the Parx casino and entertainment complex was aired...which mentioned a May 8th show with Brian and the PS tour! Parx is in Bensalem, PA just outside Philly for those in the area who could attend.

It caught my ear because unless I missed it, this May 8th show in Bensalem is not yet on the Parx website, nor is it listed on BW's site. It would make sense since he's already booked for the Kennedy Center May 7th, yet has three shows in Nashville with the symphony May 10-12.

I'm waiting to see more on this, like a confirmation, denial, correction, or official listing.  :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 21, 2018, 09:48:50 AM
Thanks GF! I may have to make my way up there for this one.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on January 22, 2018, 09:35:42 AM
Hooray!

Every time I think it's gonna be the last time....

http://philly.carpediem.cd/events/5713948-brian-wilson-presents-pet-sounds-at-xcite-center/



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on January 22, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Interesting -- Brian's also doing some non-PS shows:

http://gazette.com/beach-boy-brian-wilson-set-to-bring-surf-sounds-to-colorado-springs/article/1619508

BEACH BOY BRIAN WILSON SET TO BRING SURF SOUNDS TO COLORADO SPRINGS
By: Jen Mulson
January 22, 2018

Beach Boys co-founder and Grammy Award-winner Brian Wilson will bring his "Greatest Hits Live Tour" to Pikes Peak Center this spring.

The concert will feature the iconic surf music the group has brought to life since 1961. Special guest and Beach Boys co-founder Al Jardine also will perform. The show is April 18.

Tickets are $55 and go on sale at 10 a.m. Friday. Call 520-7469 or go online to pikespeakcenter.com or broadmoorworldarena.com.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 22, 2018, 02:05:39 PM
Interesting -- Brian's also doing some non-PS shows:

http://gazette.com/beach-boy-brian-wilson-set-to-bring-surf-sounds-to-colorado-springs/article/1619508

BEACH BOY BRIAN WILSON SET TO BRING SURF SOUNDS TO COLORADO SPRINGS
By: Jen Mulson
January 22, 2018

Beach Boys co-founder and Grammy Award-winner Brian Wilson will bring his "Greatest Hits Live Tour" to Pikes Peak Center this spring.

The concert will feature the iconic surf music the group has brought to life since 1961. Special guest and Beach Boys co-founder Al Jardine also will perform. The show is April 18.

Tickets are $55 and go on sale at 10 a.m. Friday. Call 520-7469 or go online to pikespeakcenter.com or broadmoorworldarena.com.

Interesting! I'm still wondering if 2018 may be a year of more scattered dates and small clusters of shows. More active than 2014 clearly, but less so than the subsequent few years.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: EgoHanger1966 on January 26, 2018, 08:18:46 AM
Hooray!

Every time I think it's gonna be the last time....

http://philly.carpediem.cd/events/5713948-brian-wilson-presents-pet-sounds-at-xcite-center/



Only for you, Brian. A third row seat costs $134 with fees....but I did it anyway. Looking forward to seeing the man, and hopefully some of you! Come say hi. I'm forever wearing a Pet Sounds shirt.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Shady on January 26, 2018, 04:50:35 PM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 07:16:30 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested:

https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf

Guess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012?

$15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on January 29, 2018, 07:26:23 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested:

https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf

Guess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012?

$15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates.


:lol Ha, ha! myKe had to do 31 more shows than Brian to make less! Liking that aspect of it for sure.  :p


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 08:48:07 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

So, Brian's charging more then.   


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 09:33:02 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

So, Brian's charging more then.  

Or, another way to look at it is that Brian is *able* to charge more. Or, potentially, people *aren't* willing to pay as much to see Mike.

It's right there in the chart; Brian's average ticket price is about $80 and Mike's is about $60. Which sounds right to me. While they play some of the same venues, Brian doesn't do as many small market gigs, fairs, festivals, etc. Brian's tour also hasn't been coming around to pretty much every market, every year, for decades and decades.

Brian's tour also has a much larger overhead than Mike's does, so it's not like all of that ticket price premium is going to straight to Brian's pockets. That extra $20 per ticket gets you a larger band (including another original Beach Boy, and three Beach Boys total), sometimes nicer venues, typically a less "casual" audience, etc.

Mike's a bottom line business guy; I'm sure he charges precisely what he can. If added a 33% premium on average to his ticket prices, he's surely sell less tickets. He has also dug himself a hole (to the degree grossing $7 million plus probably another $5-7 or more from corporate gigs and international dates is a "hole") by over-touring. Mike could easily charge "Brian prices" or "C50 prices" if he actually built up demand by taking a year or two off, or doing something other than 150-175 shows *per year, every year.*


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 09:43:46 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

So, Brian's charging more then.  

Or, another way to look at it is that Brian is *able* to charge more. Or, potentially, people *aren't* willing to pay as much to see Mike.

It's right there in the chart; Brian's average ticket price is about $80 and Mike's is about $60. Which sounds right to me. While they play some of the same venues, Brian doesn't do as many small market gigs, fairs, festivals, etc. Brian's tour also hasn't been coming around to pretty much every market, every year, for decades and decades.

Brian's tour also has a much larger overhead than Mike's does, so it's not like all of that ticket price premium is going to straight to Brian's pockets. That extra $20 per ticket gets you a larger band (including another original Beach Boy, and three Beach Boys total), sometimes nicer venues, typically a less "casual" audience, etc.

Mike's a bottom line business guy; I'm sure he charges precisely what he can. If added a 33% premium on average to his ticket prices, he's surely sell less tickets. He has also dug himself a hole (to the degree grossing $7 million plus probably another $5-7 or more from corporate gigs and international dates is a "hole") by over-touring. Mike could easily charge "Brian prices" or "C50 prices" if he actually built up demand by taking a year or two off, or doing something other than 150-175 shows *per year, every year.*

It seems Brian has been able to charge more by adding two words to the ticket - "Pet Sounds."

I attended two shows on the NPP Tour in 2015.  I had 5th show seats for one, and 2nd show seats for another.   The face value of each ticket was around $60.  Which is pretty much the same price I paid to see Mike's Beach Boys in 2015 and 2016.

However, the 2016 Pet Sounds show I attended was a $99 face value for a 25th row ticket.  (I was fortunate enough to receive a free fair of tickets to the other PS show I attended). 

I know it's just the nature of the beast.   Roger Waters also charged more money when I saw him tour on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, as opposed to his In the Flesh Tour.   But, I think it's worth noting if we're comparing how much each tour is grossing. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:01:57 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

So, Brian's charging more then.  

Or, another way to look at it is that Brian is *able* to charge more. Or, potentially, people *aren't* willing to pay as much to see Mike.

It's right there in the chart; Brian's average ticket price is about $80 and Mike's is about $60. Which sounds right to me. While they play some of the same venues, Brian doesn't do as many small market gigs, fairs, festivals, etc. Brian's tour also hasn't been coming around to pretty much every market, every year, for decades and decades.

Brian's tour also has a much larger overhead than Mike's does, so it's not like all of that ticket price premium is going to straight to Brian's pockets. That extra $20 per ticket gets you a larger band (including another original Beach Boy, and three Beach Boys total), sometimes nicer venues, typically a less "casual" audience, etc.

Mike's a bottom line business guy; I'm sure he charges precisely what he can. If added a 33% premium on average to his ticket prices, he's surely sell less tickets. He has also dug himself a hole (to the degree grossing $7 million plus probably another $5-7 or more from corporate gigs and international dates is a "hole") by over-touring. Mike could easily charge "Brian prices" or "C50 prices" if he actually built up demand by taking a year or two off, or doing something other than 150-175 shows *per year, every year.*

It seems Brian has been able to charge more by adding two words to the ticket - "Pet Sounds."

I attended two shows on the NPP Tour in 2015.  I had 5th show seats for one, and 2nd show seats for another.   The face value of each ticket was around $60.  Which is pretty much the same price I paid to see Mike's Beach Boys in 2015 and 2016.

However, the 2016 Pet Sounds show I attended was a $99 face value for a 25th row ticket.  (I was fortunate enough to receive a free fair of tickets to the other PS show I attended).  

I know it's just the nature of the beast.   Roger Waters also charged more money when I saw him tour on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, as opposed to his In the Flesh Tour.   But, I think it's worth noting if we're comparing how much each tour is grossing.  

To the main point, Brian can charge more for tickets, so he does. And??

I'm not sure why doing "Pet Sounds" shows is framed as if it's some sort of cheat or loophole. Mike was and is free to do a "Pet Sounds" tour too if he wanted. Let's see if he can add a premium on his ticket price then.

The main reason Brian is even on the list is because he's done far more total shows in the last two years than in most previous years.

To the specific point of ticket prices, I'm not sure your singular experience speaks to an overall trend of a higher ticket price for PS shows. I think Brian has always been on the higher end of ticket prices for his type of show, and his higher grosses over the last couple of years is more about doing more total shows in more markets. Here's a rough run down of some of the BW shows and ticket prices I've experienced:

1999 - Warfield Theater, San Francisco - $39.50 (balcony, because the floor only had basically nightclub-style tables)
2000 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $80 (Pet Sounds tour, no orchestra, second row seats)
2001 - Shoreline Amphitheater, Mountain View - $68.50 (Paul Simon tour, lower reserved section, but was only a 70 min. show)
2004 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $65.50 (about 15 or so rows from the front)
2005 - Greek Theatre, Berkeley - $80 (reserved set in the second section back)
2007 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $65 (Pet Sounds tour, bottom section, but a ways back)
2007 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $85 (near the back of the small floor seating section)
2013 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $105 (Jeff Beck tour, lower reserved section but a ways back)
2015 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $129 (NPP tour, lower reserved about 10 rows-ish back)
2015 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $135 (lower reserved, but not super close)
2016 - The Masonic, San Francisco - $98 (Pet Sounds tour, lower reserved, but a ways back)

Each of the two 2015 BW shows I attended were the most expensive, and neither were PS shows. Obviously, each show doesn't have precisely equivalent seating sections, so in some cases I was in the first, second, or third tier. But in most cases, I was usually going for first or second tier and simply "best available." And I usually only went for second tier seats for venues where I was familiar with the minimal benefit of the top tier based on their seating map.

I even saw both a PS show and a non-PS show in 2007, and the non-PS show was more expensive. And Al was at both shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 10:10:36 AM
Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9

So, Brian's charging more then.  

Or, another way to look at it is that Brian is *able* to charge more. Or, potentially, people *aren't* willing to pay as much to see Mike.

It's right there in the chart; Brian's average ticket price is about $80 and Mike's is about $60. Which sounds right to me. While they play some of the same venues, Brian doesn't do as many small market gigs, fairs, festivals, etc. Brian's tour also hasn't been coming around to pretty much every market, every year, for decades and decades.

Brian's tour also has a much larger overhead than Mike's does, so it's not like all of that ticket price premium is going to straight to Brian's pockets. That extra $20 per ticket gets you a larger band (including another original Beach Boy, and three Beach Boys total), sometimes nicer venues, typically a less "casual" audience, etc.

Mike's a bottom line business guy; I'm sure he charges precisely what he can. If added a 33% premium on average to his ticket prices, he's surely sell less tickets. He has also dug himself a hole (to the degree grossing $7 million plus probably another $5-7 or more from corporate gigs and international dates is a "hole") by over-touring. Mike could easily charge "Brian prices" or "C50 prices" if he actually built up demand by taking a year or two off, or doing something other than 150-175 shows *per year, every year.*

It seems Brian has been able to charge more by adding two words to the ticket - "Pet Sounds."

I attended two shows on the NPP Tour in 2015.  I had 5th show seats for one, and 2nd show seats for another.   The face value of each ticket was around $60.  Which is pretty much the same price I paid to see Mike's Beach Boys in 2015 and 2016.

However, the 2016 Pet Sounds show I attended was a $99 face value for a 25th row ticket.  (I was fortunate enough to receive a free fair of tickets to the other PS show I attended).  

I know it's just the nature of the beast.   Roger Waters also charged more money when I saw him tour on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, as opposed to his In the Flesh Tour.   But, I think it's worth noting if we're comparing how much each tour is grossing.  

To the main point, Brian can charge more for tickets, so he does. And??

I'm not sure why doing "Pet Sounds" shows is framed as if it's some sort of cheat or loophole. Mike was and is free to do a "Pet Sounds" tour too if he wanted. Let's see if he can add a premium on his ticket price then.

The main reason Brian is even on the list is because he's done far more total shows in the last two years than in most previous years.

To the specific point of ticket prices, I'm not sure your singular experience speaks to an overall trend of a higher ticket price for PS shows. I think Brian has always been on the higher end of ticket prices for his type of show, and his higher grosses over the last couple of years is more about doing more total shows in more markets. Here's a rough run down of some of the BW shows and ticket prices I've experienced:

1999 - Warfield Theater, San Francisco - $39.50 (balcony, because the floor only had basically nightclub-style tables)
2000 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $80 (Pet Sounds tour, no orchestra, second row seats)
2001 - Shoreline Amphitheater, Mountain View - $68.50 (Paul Simon tour, lower reserved section, but was only a 70 min. show)
2004 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $65.50 (about 15 or so rows from the front)
2005 - Greek Theatre, Berkeley - $80 (reserved set in the second section back)
2007 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $65 (Pet Sounds tour, bottom section, but a ways back)
2007 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $85 (near the back of the small floor seating section)
2013 - Paramount Theatre, Oakland - $105 (Jeff Beck tour, lower reserved section but a ways back)
2015 - Mountain Winery, Saratoga - $129 (NPP tour, lower reserved about 10 rows-ish back)
2015 - Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco - $135 (lower reserved, but not super close)
2016 - The Masonic, San Francisco - $98 (Pet Sounds tour, lower reserved, but a ways back)

Each of the two 2015 BW shows I attended were the most expensive, and neither were PS shows. Obviously, each show doesn't have precisely equivalent seating sections, so in some cases I was in the first, second, or third tier. But in most cases, I was usually going for first or second tier and simply "best available." And I usually only went for second tier seats for venues where I was familiar with the minimal benefit of the top tier based on their seating map.

I even saw both a PS show and a non-PS show in 2007, and the non-PS show was more expensive. And Al was at both shows.

You can frame it however you want. 

But, the point of my post was that Brian's tour grossed over $2M more than Mike's because he charged more.  Plain and simple.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  But, I think it's skewed logic to sit back and chuckle, saying "Hey Brian made X amount more than Mike." 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:29:38 AM
You can frame it however you want.  

But, the point of my post was that Brian's tour grossed over $2M more than Mike's because he charged more.  Plain and simple.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  But, I think it's skewed logic to sit back and chuckle, saying "Hey Brian made X amount more than Mike."  

I don't think sitting back and chuckling accomplishes anything.

But you seem to want to frame Brian charging more as if it's an exception/option only available to Brian.

Mike could attempt to charge the same amount as Brian does for tickets, and could do a "Pet Sounds" tour if he wanted. The reason he doesn't do either of those things is undoubtedly because he can't and won't and would see a drop in ticket sales.

The fact that 2016 and 2017 have been the first years in ages (if ever) that Brian has done anything *approaching* the number of shows Mike does has resulted in a *very* instructive and for once valid comparison/contrast between the two touring bands.

Brian can charge more than Mike can. So he does. Again, if Mike could charge 33% more per ticket, he would without a doubt do just that. The reason Mike can't charge as much as Brian for tickets is obviously up for debate, but there are some pretty strong, obvious potential reasons:

1. Mike over-tours and thus dilutes his market
2. Brian is more of a prestige artist PR/image-wise, and thus brings in an audience that can and will pay more
3. Brian is willing to shell out for a larger, bigger production in terms of number of musicians
4. Brian is, often times, willing and able to do full albums front-to-back, which certainly is an angle to market a tour with
5. Brian's tour has more original Beach Boys in it than Mike's band, and has more total Beach Boys in it than Mike's has, and the second (and third) Beach Boy in Brian's band is a much more prominently placed member with more lead vocals and showcase numbers

The original statistic cited in the first post to bring this topic up was Total Gross dollars, not total number of tickets sold. So, saying Brian grossed more money because he charged more for his tickets doesn't take any epic sleuthing.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:34:22 AM
The Pollstar stats also show that Brian not only grossed more total dollars, but had an average ticket sale figure (presumably a per-show average) of 1,755 versus Mike's 1,248.

So choice of venue and total number of tickets sold per show/venue also play a role in addition to pricing.

Brian, seemingly, can not only justify a higher ticket price than Mike, but can on average justify larger venues and can thus sell more tickets per show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 10:35:04 AM
You can frame it however you want.  

But, the point of my post was that Brian's tour grossed over $2M more than Mike's because he charged more.  Plain and simple.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong.  But, I think it's skewed logic to sit back and chuckle, saying "Hey Brian made X amount more than Mike."  

I don't think sitting back and chuckling accomplishes anything.

But you seem to want to frame Brian charging more as if it's an exception/option only available to Brian.

Mike could attempt to charge the same amount as Brian does for tickets, and could do a "Pet Sounds" tour if he wanted. The reason he doesn't do either of those things is undoubtedly because he can't and won't and would see a drop in ticket sales.

The fact that 2016 and 2017 have been the first years in ages (if ever) that Brian has done anything *approaching* the number of shows Mike does has resulted in a *very* instructive and for once valid comparison/contrast between the two touring bands.

Brian can charge more than Mike can. So he does. Again, if Mike could charge 33% more per ticket, he would without a doubt do just that. The reason Mike can't charge as much as Brian for tickets is obviously up for debate, but there are some pretty strong, obvious potential reasons:

1. Mike over-tours and thus dilutes his market
2. Brian is more of a prestige artist PR/image-wise, and thus brings in an audience that can and will pay more
3. Brian is willing to shell out for a larger, bigger production in terms of number of musicians
4. Brian is, often times, willing and able to do full albums front-to-back, which certainly is an angle to market a tour with
5. Brian's tour has more Beach Boys original Beach Boys in it than Mike's band, and has more total Beach Boys in it than Mike's has, and the second (and third) Beach Boy in Brian's band is a much more prominently placed member with more lead vocals and showcase numbers

The original statistic cited in the first post to bring this topic up was Total Gross dollars, not total number of tickets sold. So, saying Brian grossed more money because he charged more for his tickets doesn't take any epic sleuthing.

I agree sitting back and chuckling does nothing.  But, I saw that many of Mike's naysayers were really quick to jump on that gross revenue number.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 10:40:46 AM
And Mike's defenders were quick to say "Brian charges more".

KDS, could you accept that maybe in 2017 it was as simple as Brian's tour did better than Mike's, or Mike's ticket sales declined? It feels like the same non-logic (#MottLogic ? ) that was used when the 2012 C50 numbers were parsed and spun to try to justify Mike's claims that C50 was losing money when the numbers don't back up that claim.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:41:37 AM
Well, I would say from an objective industry/music history observation point, that statistic is a bit surprising and potentially embarrassing for Mike.

Brian (and Al), who have at times been harangued by "friendly reminders" from legal to not too prominently notate their "Original Beach Boy" status in advertisements have, in the aftermath of Mike *leaving* their fully formed, reunited group (which did and would gross more than EITHER band), managed to out-gross Mike's tour.

I personally think Mike's numbers speak more to his over-touring and diluting the market than it does some huge anti-Mike sentiment among potential ticket-buyers. The average Joe *not* always buying a ticket to Mike's shows isn't passing on it because they think Mike's a jerk. They're sometimes passing on it because Mikes comes by every year, year after year.

But yeah, when you *leave* the other guys in your band, take the band name with you, and the other guys gross more money, it's not crazy to say that some would find that embarrassing.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 10:42:58 AM
And Mike's defenders were quick to say "Brian charges more".

KDS, could you accept that maybe in 2017 it was as simple as Brian's tour did better than Mike's, or Mike's ticket sales declined? It feels like the same non-logic (#MottLogic ? ) that was used when the 2012 C50 numbers were parsed and spun to try to justify Mike's claims that C50 was losing money when the numbers don't back up that claim.

I accept the fact that Brian's tour grossed more.   


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:46:57 AM
And Mike's defenders were quick to say "Brian charges more".

KDS, could you accept that maybe in 2017 it was as simple as Brian's tour did better than Mike's, or Mike's ticket sales declined? It feels like the same non-logic (#MottLogic ? ) that was used when the 2012 C50 numbers were parsed and spun to try to justify Mike's claims that C50 was losing money when the numbers don't back up that claim.

I accept the fact that Brian's tour grossed more.  

I think the idea here is to see if there any takeaways from it beyond the statistic itself. "Ha ha! Brian sold more than Mike!" isn't a worthwhile takeaway.

But "geez, maybe Mike's overtouring and the higher end concert goer having more respect for Brian's show than Mike's" is something more along the lines of worthwhile takeaways.

Another takeaway is that Brian (and Al) should be commended (to the degree going out and touring warrants such) for breaking out post-C50 *without* the band name behind them and outgrossing the licensed tour. It ain't easy, even for *Brian Wilson*, to break away from a huge trademark like "The Beach Boys" and perform so well.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 10:51:08 AM
And Mike's defenders were quick to say "Brian charges more".

KDS, could you accept that maybe in 2017 it was as simple as Brian's tour did better than Mike's, or Mike's ticket sales declined? It feels like the same non-logic (#MottLogic ? ) that was used when the 2012 C50 numbers were parsed and spun to try to justify Mike's claims that C50 was losing money when the numbers don't back up that claim.

I accept the fact that Brian's tour grossed more.  

I think the idea here is to see if there any takeaways from it beyond the statistic itself. "Ha ha! Brian sold more than Mike!" isn't a worthwhile takeaway.

But "geez, maybe Mike's overtouring and the higher end concert goer having more respect for Brian's show than Mike's" is something more along the lines of worthwhile takeaways.

Another takeaway is that Brian (and Al) should be commended (to the degree going out and touring warrants such) for breaking out post-C50 *without* the band name behind them and outgrossing the licensed tour. It ain't easy, even for *Brian Wilson*, to break away from a huge trademark like "The Beach Boys" and perform so well.

Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018. 

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:53:49 AM
Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018. 

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner. 

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 10:56:24 AM
Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018. 

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner. 

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:57:09 AM
There's unquestionably a series of drawbacks (on the fan side of things) when touring acts get super-huge. Look at many of the top grossers. It's a lot of bloated, binoculars-required stadium shows and arena shows.

Two of the highest per-ticket price averages? Vegas residencies from Britney Spears and Celine Dion, where the shows are shorter.

Ironically, I agree with Howie Edelson that a 2013 (or 2014) Vegas residency would have been perfect for keeping the reunion together. It would have streamlined the whole process, kept TONS of money rolling in, and would have largely eliminated any warring managerial factions.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 10:59:26 AM
Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018.  

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner.  

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back.  

While I don't see any issue with the possibility that the average PS tour ticket is more expensive than a non-PS Brian show, unless you can provide some overall stats rather than your one personal ticket buying experience, I'm not prepared to say Brian is, on an average per-ticket basis, charging significantly more for the PS shows than for others. Indeed, I provided you a list of a bunch of shows I attended, including many in back-to-back years or even within the same year, which showed his non-PS shows are the same price and in some cases were MORE expensive than his PS shows. And the SF Bay Area market is (unfortunately for me) among the most expensive markets in the country, if not the world.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 11:00:29 AM
There's unquestionably a series of drawbacks (on the fan side of things) when touring acts get super-huge. Look at many of the top grossers. It's a lot of bloated, binoculars-required stadium shows and arena shows.

Two of the highest per-ticket price averages? Vegas residencies from Britney Spears and Celine Dion, where the shows are shorter.

Ironically, I agree with Howie Edelson that a 2013 (or 2014) Vegas residency would have been perfect for keeping the reunion together. It would have streamlined the whole process, kept TONS of money rolling in, and would have largely eliminated any warring managerial factions.

I do agree a Vegas deal would've been perfect for C50.  

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 29, 2018, 11:02:12 AM
I'm not certain there would be nearly as much interest in a Brian Wilson residency as compared to a full Beach Boys reunion. Meaning, full year if not multi-year deals as opposed to week-long-ish residencies. But you never know.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on January 29, 2018, 11:32:27 AM
I think the idea here is to see if there any takeaways from it beyond the statistic itself. "Ha ha! Brian sold more than Mike!" isn't a worthwhile takeaway.

But "geez, maybe Mike's overtouring and the higher end concert goer having more respect for Brian's show than Mike's" is something more along the lines of worthwhile takeaways.

Another takeaway is that Brian (and Al) should be commended (to the degree going out and touring warrants such) for breaking out post-C50 *without* the band name behind them and outgrossing the licensed tour. It ain't easy, even for *Brian Wilson*, to break away from a huge trademark like "The Beach Boys" and perform so well.
Nice thoughts! I agree. :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on January 29, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018.  

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner.  

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back.  

While I don't see any issue with the possibility that the average PS tour ticket is more expensive than a non-PS Brian show, unless you can provide some overall stats rather than your one personal ticket buying experience, I'm not prepared to say Brian is, on an average per-ticket basis, charging significantly more for the PS shows than for others. Indeed, I provided you a list of a bunch of shows I attended, including many in back-to-back years or even within the same year, which showed his non-PS shows are the same price and in some cases were MORE expensive than his PS shows. And the SF Bay Area market is (unfortunately for me) among the most expensive markets in the country, if not the world.

The only price variations I've noticed are with regard to certain more expensive venues being more, particularly if there's an orchestra involved.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 29, 2018, 12:33:59 PM
wrong thread


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 01:40:20 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on January 29, 2018, 01:50:35 PM
Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brian’s thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?

Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on January 29, 2018, 01:54:59 PM

Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9


I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested:

https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf

Guess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012?

$15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates.


Gosh, all that money coming in and Brain Wilson's North American tours as well as the 2012 C50 North American tour were supposedly money losers?

Interesting to see that only three other performers on the Top 200 list had a lower average 2017 gross than The Beach Boys. For sure, overexposure is a big factor there.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Custom Machine on January 29, 2018, 02:11:46 PM

Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brian’s thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?

Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.
 

Good question about a fair where admission to see The Beach Boys is included, although Brian has played such shows as well, but far fewer. Having seen both the BBs and BW at the San Diego County Fair, while admission was potentially free, I paid for better seats. Regardless of how an average ticket price might be calculated under a county or state fair scenario, the performers involved would still receive gross revenue from their appearance which they and the promoters would factor into the decision to perform.

Yes, BW's touring expenses are significantly higher than Mike's, and the net figures would tell the definitive story, but looking at the numbers I find it hard to believe, as has been stated in the past, that Brian's tours lose money overall, and even harder to believe that the North American C50 tour, with an average gross of $300,000 per show, was a money loser, especially considering that promoters were asking for more shows.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on January 29, 2018, 02:33:36 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The Cincinnati Kid on January 29, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
The other day I threw together a couple of graphs that look at how each touring group fared since C50.  Unless I missed it, neither group was listed for 2013.  It's also worth noting that The Beach Boys grossed $17,000,000 worldwide in 2015, enough to crack the top 100.  

(https://i.imgur.com/Msr2mpB.png)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 29, 2018, 02:56:34 PM
M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on January 29, 2018, 03:21:16 PM
M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 04:27:00 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

Has he canceled any shows due to health issues? No.

People have been knocking Brian's stage presence that same way as you have since he first started playing shows almost 20 years ago, I guess if it were that much of a drawback he wouldn't have outsold Mike last year and people would stop going if that were an issue.

Go see Mike and Bruce acting spry and in good shape on stage so you don't have to worry about Brian's health, and he'll tour as he chooses.

As far as vocals, have you heard Mike singing live in the past several years? He couldn't get enough breath to sustain notes without straining on his own studio album (if you've heard it), and any number of performance clips from his shows on YouTube show this too rather consistently on songs he's done for decades, but that's topic for another discussion I guess.

Like I said, if Brian's health on the road is such a concern, go see Mike and Bruce when they come around and you won't have to worry about it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 29, 2018, 04:27:18 PM
M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.
Hence why he uses this sh*t on stage....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 04:36:50 PM
M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.
Hence why he uses this sh*t on stage....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY

And schtick like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTDwX3pH8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTDwX3pH8M)

As of late August 2017 he still hadn't abandoned the idea of bringing cheerleaders on stage.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 04:38:25 PM
Spry.  ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 29, 2018, 04:44:27 PM
Its all about the music.... ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 04:50:21 PM
Its all about the music.... ::)

Ahh, that old chestnut.

Whatever Brian has been doing, it's been working. And selling more than Mike's show apparently, if you look at those numbers.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 29, 2018, 04:57:12 PM
Even with Mike's C50 ripoff video board and tributes....


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on January 29, 2018, 05:03:42 PM
You're completely misrepresenting my point. Yeah, Brian's not a ball of fire onstage, but he certainly didn't look like he was ready to fall asleep in 2015. But in 2017, after the amount of shows he performed? That schedule would be tiring for a guy 30 years younger. And dude, don't get me wrong here, I'm not here to defend Mike Love. I'm as much a shameless Brianista as anyone. I happily went to his Radio City concert last September and it was a great experience. That being said, Brian seemed exhausted. My argument is made out of genuine concern. I'm just a guy on the Internet who loves the Beach Boys. I'm not here to tear down Brian Wilson and I certainly don't have an agenda.

As for Bruce, health scares are not unexpected with performers of their age. Elton John, Billy Joel, and Paul McCartney all have cancelled shows with major illnesses over the past few years. I don't think it's fair to use that against them.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 29, 2018, 05:14:40 PM
I do know Brian has had back issues. Other than that as far as I know everything is fine.

That said back issues *suck*. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 06:45:37 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on January 29, 2018, 07:06:23 PM
I don't think it's any of our business how any of their health is. That being said, Brian's physical appearance really hasn't decreased since 2012. That's not exactly a compliment either though.

Mike on the other hand, seems a little slower, a little gruffer, and a little more tired looking every year. AS for Bruce, I don't know what he went through in the fall but it aged him big time. He looks MUCH older since taking that time off.

Alan and David haven't visually aged in a decade at least, and in fact, David is one of those rare cool old dudes that looks better and better with age.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 07:07:05 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 07:10:20 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 07:14:38 PM
You're completely misrepresenting my point. Yeah, Brian's not a ball of fire onstage, but he certainly didn't look like he was ready to fall asleep in 2015. But in 2017, after the amount of shows he performed? That schedule would be tiring for a guy 30 years younger. And dude, don't get me wrong here, I'm not here to defend Mike Love. I'm as much a shameless Brianista as anyone. I happily went to his Radio City concert last September and it was a great experience. That being said, Brian seemed exhausted. My argument is made out of genuine concern. I'm just a guy on the Internet who loves the Beach Boys. I'm not here to tear down Brian Wilson and I certainly don't have an agenda.

As for Bruce, health scares are not unexpected with performers of their age. Elton John, Billy Joel, and Paul McCartney all have cancelled shows with major illnesses over the past few years. I don't think it's fair to use that against them.

I can dig that. But understand there are segments of fans who have been using Brian's health, stage presence, appearance, etc against him for nearly 20 years of playing live with his band. Not the least of which was Mike Love himself who outlined it as a reason why Brian was harming Mike's "brand" in the 2005 lawsuit (and Al too who was 'bastardizing' it), and used shows which Rolling Stone just listed as among the best live shows of all time as his evidence. Mike's "reasons" and evidence were yet again a farce to everyone but him and a small pocket of his fans who have been harping on these same issues you raised for way too long.

It's not an issue of Brian's health as much as it feels like some interests would like to see him quit the road entirely. Especially, perhaps, since those 2017 N.A. tour numbers came in and Mike's tour didn't do as well as Brian's...despite all the health concerns that the same fans don't seem to have with Mike even after a key member fell ill.

It's of course an issue, and shouldn't be used against these artists in their 70's and older.

So don't use it against Brian - If he's happy touring, he'll tour, whether Mike and his fans think he should or not.

The fans speak with their wallets, and they did quite loudly in 2017. Good for Brian and Al.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 07:21:02 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jim V. on January 29, 2018, 07:21:32 PM
David is one of those rare cool old dudes that looks better and better with age.

My wife knows pretty much every Beach Boys name, but usually can't remember Dave. She calls him "guy with the glasses" or Graham Parker, since she saw him in This Is 40 with a somewhat Marks-ian look.

(http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2012/12/Graham-Parker.jpg)

I kinda see it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 07:26:14 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it. 

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 07:38:57 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it. 

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece. 

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 07:45:31 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it. 

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece. 

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts. 

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 07:54:56 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it.  

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece.  

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts.  

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing.  

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 29, 2018, 08:00:16 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it.  

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece.  

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts.  

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing.  

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?



Its so funny all this talk of endgames, agendas, payrolls, etc.

There is no endgame, its only discussion. 

Seriously, do you even get any joy from being a Beach Boys fan?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 29, 2018, 08:13:28 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it.  

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece.  

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts.  

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing.  

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?



Its so funny all this talk of endgames, agendas, payrolls, etc.

There is no endgame, its only discussion. 

Seriously, do you even get any joy from being a Beach Boys fan?

Plenty of joy. For nearly 40 years up to the present moment.

It would be funny if some of that crap didn't infect the fanbase and these forums as it did. That's when my joy turns to disgust, especially when the cop-out is something like "it's all about the music". And when people try to lie, twist, and distort the most basic facts in the name of rewriting history to suit someone's narrative. But that's old ground.

I have to ask you in return, do you feel any joy, or even a sense of being thankful, that Brian Wilson is still touring as a solo act and that you have an opportunity to see him play when he comes to your area if you choose?

KDS, maybe your fandom or age missed this period of time, but up until the 90's I was one of many who thought we'd *never* get to see Brian actively performing in person, let alone be able to make music into his 70's and hopefully into the foreseeable future. There was a time when we thought all that goodness would have to exist on old bootlegs and back-catalog releases. Then I realize I've been going to Brian's shows to see and hear him in person for nearly 20 years, and it amazes me still. I was also fortunate enough to see him perform both Smile (as a completed work) AND Pet Sounds, two of my main influences on me being a musician, live and in person. Because, it was very palpable for quite some time that he was done. He proved us wrong, and we benefit from it.

If regularly bringing up how awful it must be for him to be touring and how frail and unsteady he looks is getting anywhere near the joy I have experienced as a fan of the man and his music, both live and just listening to his records, then I just don't understand where you're coming from. or where the people who do that regularly are coming from. If there isn't an end game, then why does it continue after 20 years of this?



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on January 29, 2018, 09:31:57 PM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it.  

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece.  

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts.  

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing.  

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?



Its so funny all this talk of endgames, agendas, payrolls, etc.

There is no endgame, its only discussion. 

Seriously, do you even get any joy from being a Beach Boys fan?

Plenty of joy. For nearly 40 years up to the present moment.

It would be funny if some of that crap didn't infect the fanbase and these forums as it did. That's when my joy turns to disgust, especially when the cop-out is something like "it's all about the music". And when people try to lie, twist, and distort the most basic facts in the name of rewriting history to suit someone's narrative. But that's old ground.

I have to ask you in return, do you feel any joy, or even a sense of being thankful, that Brian Wilson is still touring as a solo act and that you have an opportunity to see him play when he comes to your area if you choose?

KDS, maybe your fandom or age missed this period of time, but up until the 90's I was one of many who thought we'd *never* get to see Brian actively performing in person, let alone be able to make music into his 70's and hopefully into the foreseeable future. There was a time when we thought all that goodness would have to exist on old bootlegs and back-catalog releases. Then I realize I've been going to Brian's shows to see and hear him in person for nearly 20 years, and it amazes me still. I was also fortunate enough to see him perform both Smile (as a completed work) AND Pet Sounds, two of my main influences on me being a musician, live and in person. Because, it was very palpable for quite some time that he was done. He proved us wrong, and we benefit from it.

If regularly bringing up how awful it must be for him to be touring and how frail and unsteady he looks is getting anywhere near the joy I have experienced as a fan of the man and his music, both live and just listening to his records, then I just don't understand where you're coming from. or where the people who do that regularly are coming from. If there isn't an end game, then why does it continue after 20 years of this?



You just nailed it GF!! Great writing indeed!!  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Kid Presentable on January 30, 2018, 01:19:39 AM
One of the most problematic parts of this board is that one of the moderators is such a deep and argumentative partisan.  Look at this bullying. 

p.s. I don't agree with KDS either.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 04:49:27 AM

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Should he quit touring then?

This is from a recent interview with Al Jardine where he spoke with Brian about touring, and this was the reply:

“I just spoke to him on Christmas. He says, ‘I miss touring.’ I said, ‘Me, too.’ ”

Keep beating the dead horse, KDS. Brian will quit the road when he decides to quit. If he misses it, as he told Al, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future.

If Bruce was the one who had to miss shows due to health issues, maybe you should start posting that Mike needs to cut back on his touring, rest his voice, and give Bruce a rest too. I don't see those kinds of calls to cut back headed Mike's way anytime soon, if ever. So there's that.

This B.S. line from so many champions of Mike about "oh, poor Brian..." with his health and touring...Brian's answer as direct and as bullshit-free as it could be, is simply "I miss touring." Can it get any more clear than that?


I never suggested he should quit touring.  I merely suggested with his back issues, a residency could be beneficial.

Relax, guitarfool2002, eat a Snickers.  

EDIT - And I have suggested that Mike and Bruce could stand to do less shows.  All of these guys are in the 3rd act of life after all.

I don't eat candy bars.

Like I said, keep suggesting that notion toward Mike and Bruce as often as it comes up with Brian's touring, and also feel free to step in to correct those who try to suggest Brian is being forced to tour or is unhappy touring, and use Al's quote as a backup.

It seems like most of this "concern" about touring gets thrown Brian's way, which no coincidence has been happening for almost 20 years and was used by Mike in a failed lawsuit. To quote the legendary filmmaker Noven Jaisi, Brian is "Still Tourin'" and I'll bet with those 2017 numbers coming in, that might not sit too well with Mike.



Maybe you should try a candy bar once in awhile.  Take some pleasure in life.  You might like it.  

I have never suggested Brian should stop touring.  However, I do think its past time to retire Pet Sounds as a live centerpiece.  

Try some logic this time: All of the posts about Brian's health, how he looks frail on tour, how his stage presence is less enthusiastic than some think it should be (I guess...I have no idea), how it's a grueling schedule, how it must be hard on him, how bad it must be for his back, how it's hard being in your 70's and touring...

Seriously man, what's the end game to the point where all of that stuff keeps getting brought up in discussions? Why do you continue to bring it up, along with others, when Brian himself addressed the issue of his touring?

Is it not enough that the man himself as of a month ago says he misses touring?

If fans were to start saying the same things about Mike's touring, constantly harping on his appearance, his voice, mentioning his declining vocals, how he's not as agile as he was before on stage, his whole routine to where certain segments of the show are exactly the same as they were 5 years ago...you - KDS - would probably be among the first to say it was another case of "bashing" Mike.

So what is the end game with constantly posting about Brian's health issues and appearance when the topic of his tours comes up? Seriously.

What end game?  He's 75 with back issues.  These are just facts.  

And I know the difference between valid criticism and bashing.  

So valid criticism is listing reasons why it seems Brian would be better off not touring, including his appearance? As Walter said above, he's in his 70's as are Mike and Bruce and McCartney and many other notable musicians still playing international tours, if they can still do it and want to do it and in Brian's case he's said he enjoys it, why continue to post the same stuff about his health and appearance?

What is the end game, or what is the point, to regularly taking to fan forums and listing reasons that seem to add up to a list of why some people think he'd be better off not touring as he does?



Its so funny all this talk of endgames, agendas, payrolls, etc.

There is no endgame, its only discussion. 

Seriously, do you even get any joy from being a Beach Boys fan?

Plenty of joy. For nearly 40 years up to the present moment.

It would be funny if some of that crap didn't infect the fanbase and these forums as it did. That's when my joy turns to disgust, especially when the cop-out is something like "it's all about the music". And when people try to lie, twist, and distort the most basic facts in the name of rewriting history to suit someone's narrative. But that's old ground.

I have to ask you in return, do you feel any joy, or even a sense of being thankful, that Brian Wilson is still touring as a solo act and that you have an opportunity to see him play when he comes to your area if you choose?

KDS, maybe your fandom or age missed this period of time, but up until the 90's I was one of many who thought we'd *never* get to see Brian actively performing in person, let alone be able to make music into his 70's and hopefully into the foreseeable future. There was a time when we thought all that goodness would have to exist on old bootlegs and back-catalog releases. Then I realize I've been going to Brian's shows to see and hear him in person for nearly 20 years, and it amazes me still. I was also fortunate enough to see him perform both Smile (as a completed work) AND Pet Sounds, two of my main influences on me being a musician, live and in person. Because, it was very palpable for quite some time that he was done. He proved us wrong, and we benefit from it.

If regularly bringing up how awful it must be for him to be touring and how frail and unsteady he looks is getting anywhere near the joy I have experienced as a fan of the man and his music, both live and just listening to his records, then I just don't understand where you're coming from. or where the people who do that regularly are coming from. If there isn't an end game, then why does it continue after 20 years of this?



You're just putting words in my mouth at this point as I never said anything about Brian being frail or how he shouldn't be touring.   I merely pointed out some facts that may or may not affect his decisions to tour further, and also pointed out, what has already been stated before that the performances of the Pet Sounds album declined a lot during the 2017 tour, and the piece should've been retired at the previously advertised date of Sept 21, 2017.   

In fact, I'm putting a little money aside in case Brian's rumored Christmas Tour happens, and comes within 100 miles of my house. 

You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has. 

So, feel free to continue to swim in your little stew of paranoia with talk of end games and such. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 04:56:47 AM
I mean, there are two posters who are saying that Brian is “very overweight”....really?

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/26757856_10156324160627241_607632697398349860_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=3ae8cf7ff443721ca6378ebb5183d3de&oe=5AE7D66C)

Does that look very overweight to anybody? There used to be a poster here (now banned thank god) who for years admittedly mocked anything that had to do with Brian’s health, music, and management. So when people start making bullshit statements now I can imagine it gets very tiring for those who had to put up with it for years. I mean really, Brian is “very overweight”? Give me a break.

There are two posters who also say Brian looks lethargic onstage, yet I’ve seen him many times in the past few years and he is interactive with the audience, and gets very into singing many songs. Albeit, there are times when he is just sitting there at his piano, but I wouldn’t make a blanket statement that he looks “lethargic onstage” making it sound like he is like this for the entire damn concert. And yeah, he does have back problems, yet he’s still out there putting on a show for an audience who wants to be there to hear Brian.

People here are so concerned with Brian’s health, yet he’s got doctors upon doctors who check for his mental and physical health. He doesn’t need some armchair physicians from the Smiley Smile forum to recommend he take up residency in Vegas when clearly Brian is still wanting to tour and wanting to go onstage every night to play to his fans.

I mean, we’re comparing the ability to belt out a nauseating “wheeeeeeeeeen” and adjusting a mic stand with Brian’s stage presence...its utterly foolish if you ask me. So yeah, I completely get where Guitarfool is coming from.

“Very overweight” and yet interjecting that such statements and others are bullshit is considered bullying?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 05:14:30 AM
You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has.   

WHOA.

Smile Brian is Melinda Wilson.
Melinda Wilson was never confronted by Landy in a car dealership.
Brian has no chance of ever getting on the radio again.
Brian is controlled.
Brian is like a wheelchair bound grandpa who is wheeled out on thanksgiving dinner.
Melinda only adopted her kids for the tax break.

That is the exact bullshit that was spread here, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the inane garbage that the moderators had to deal with.

That’s 100% on the fools you now interact with on the Pet Sounds forum, KDS. That’s not a knock at that forum. It is a knock at the idiots who had an actual agenda to smear Brian and Melinda behind the scenes and directly on the board here. Hell, again one person admitted to saying the shittiest things about Brian and Melinda Wilson just to prove some kind of point.

KDS, do you really think those PMs that were spread being the scenes that originated with Andrew G Doe weren’t part of some agenda?

So yeah, when someone makes a BS comment that Brian is “very overweight” and you agree with it, how else is Guitarfool supposed to respond?...especially after having to deal with years of complete bullshit information.

This forum has the reputation it has because some on the PS forum have put on this guise that that entire forum is “all about the music” and that the “other forum” is full of lies and conspiracy. Meanwhile we’re not the ones who have a “researcher” who couldn’t give two fucks about research when it came to spreading the most unrealistic gossip about Melinda. I mean, keep on keepin on there, but don’t pretend like this place is some nuthouse with a paranoid moderator when you know exactly the history that took place here, you saw the PMs that are complete bullshit that the moderators here had to deal with.

So yeah, when someone makes some claim that Brian is lethargic and “very overweight” I hope anyone (moderator included) would call that sh*t out.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 05:19:11 AM
You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has.   

WHOA.

Smile Brian is Melinda Wilson.
Melinda Wilson was never confronted by Landy in a car dealership.
Brian has no chance of ever getting on the radio again.
Brian is controlled.
Brian is like a wheelchair bound grandpa who is wheeled out on thanksgiving dinner.
Melinda only adopted her kids for the tax break.

That is the exact bullshit that was spread here, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the inane garbage that the moderators had to deal with.

That’s 100% on the fools you now interact with on the Pet Sounds forum, KDS. That’s not a knock at that forum. It is a knock at the idiots who had an actual agenda to smear Brian and Melinda behind the scenes and directly on the board here. Hell, again one person admitted to saying the shittiest things about Brian and Melinda Wilson just to prove some kind of point.

KDS, do you really think those PMs that were spread being the scenes that originated with Andrew G Doe weren’t part of some agenda?

So yeah, when someone makes a BS comment that Brian is “very overweight” and you agree with it, how else is Guitarfool supposed to respond?...especially after having to deal with years of complete bullshit information.

This forum has the reputation it has because some on the PS forum have put on this guise that that entire forum is “all about the music” and that the “other forum” is full of lies and conspiracy. Meanwhile we’re not the ones who have a “researcher” who couldn’t give two fucks about research when it came to spreading the most unrealistic gossip about Melinda. I mean, keep on keepin on there, but don’t pretend like this place is some nuthouse with a paranoid moderator when you know exactly the history that took place here, you saw the PMs that are complete bullshit that the moderators here had to deal with.

So yeah, when someone makes some claim that Brian is lethargic and “very overweight” I hope anyone (moderator included) would call that sh*t out.


I can't speak for Andrew Doe, but his PMs have nothing to do with what I posted.   I can't speak for the motivations of others, only my own.   So, understand when I get called out for having some sort of "end game" for merely suggesting a Vegas residency would be more beneficial to a 75 year old with back issues in lieu of a full tour, I get a little peaved. 

What happened in 2015-2016 has absolutely 100% NOTHING to do with what I've pointed out in this thread. 



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 05:25:32 AM
You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has.    

WHOA.

Smile Brian is Melinda Wilson.
Melinda Wilson was never confronted by Landy in a car dealership.
Brian has no chance of ever getting on the radio again.
Brian is controlled.
Brian is like a wheelchair bound grandpa who is wheeled out on thanksgiving dinner.
Melinda only adopted her kids for the tax break.

That is the exact bullshit that was spread here, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the inane garbage that the moderators had to deal with.

That’s 100% on the fools you now interact with on the Pet Sounds forum, KDS. That’s not a knock at that forum. It is a knock at the idiots who had an actual agenda to smear Brian and Melinda behind the scenes and directly on the board here. Hell, again one person admitted to saying the shittiest things about Brian and Melinda Wilson just to prove some kind of point.

KDS, do you really think those PMs that were spread being the scenes that originated with Andrew G Doe weren’t part of some agenda?

So yeah, when someone makes a BS comment that Brian is “very overweight” and you agree with it, how else is Guitarfool supposed to respond?...especially after having to deal with years of complete bullshit information.

This forum has the reputation it has because some on the PS forum have put on this guise that that entire forum is “all about the music” and that the “other forum” is full of lies and conspiracy. Meanwhile we’re not the ones who have a “researcher” who couldn’t give two fucks about research when it came to spreading the most unrealistic gossip about Melinda. I mean, keep on keepin on there, but don’t pretend like this place is some nuthouse with a paranoid moderator when you know exactly the history that took place here, you saw the PMs that are complete bullshit that the moderators here had to deal with.

So yeah, when someone makes some claim that Brian is lethargic and “very overweight” I hope anyone (moderator included) would call that sh*t out.


I can't speak for Andrew Doe, but his PMs have nothing to do with what I posted.   I can't speak for the motivations of others, only my own.   So, understand when I get called out for having some sort of "end game" for merely suggesting a Vegas residency would be more beneficial to a 75 year old with back issues in lieu of a full tour, I get a little peaved.  

What happened in 2015-2016 has absolutely 100% NOTHING to do with what I've pointed out in this thread.  



His PMs are part of the reason why bullshit information is a touchy subject on this forum. So when you agree with someone that Brian is “very overweight” and that his back is bad enough for him to take up residency in Vegas and you are called out, understand that its partly a reaction to everything that happened here in 2015-2016 (and the years leading up to it) where there was an obvious agenda...whether or not you have one.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 30, 2018, 05:31:06 AM
AGD got off lightly only being banned from here, the behavior was that bad...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 05:42:45 AM
You take any, ANY, criticism of Brian Wilson, or merely pointing out facts, as some sort of malicious agenda towards the man.   That's 100% on you, GF, not on me.   And, while you'll never admit, this sort of discussion is why this forum has the reputation that it has.    

WHOA.

Smile Brian is Melinda Wilson.
Melinda Wilson was never confronted by Landy in a car dealership.
Brian has no chance of ever getting on the radio again.
Brian is controlled.
Brian is like a wheelchair bound grandpa who is wheeled out on thanksgiving dinner.
Melinda only adopted her kids for the tax break.

That is the exact bullshit that was spread here, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of the inane garbage that the moderators had to deal with.

That’s 100% on the fools you now interact with on the Pet Sounds forum, KDS. That’s not a knock at that forum. It is a knock at the idiots who had an actual agenda to smear Brian and Melinda behind the scenes and directly on the board here. Hell, again one person admitted to saying the shittiest things about Brian and Melinda Wilson just to prove some kind of point.

KDS, do you really think those PMs that were spread being the scenes that originated with Andrew G Doe weren’t part of some agenda?

So yeah, when someone makes a BS comment that Brian is “very overweight” and you agree with it, how else is Guitarfool supposed to respond?...especially after having to deal with years of complete bullshit information.

This forum has the reputation it has because some on the PS forum have put on this guise that that entire forum is “all about the music” and that the “other forum” is full of lies and conspiracy. Meanwhile we’re not the ones who have a “researcher” who couldn’t give two fucks about research when it came to spreading the most unrealistic gossip about Melinda. I mean, keep on keepin on there, but don’t pretend like this place is some nuthouse with a paranoid moderator when you know exactly the history that took place here, you saw the PMs that are complete bullshit that the moderators here had to deal with.

So yeah, when someone makes some claim that Brian is lethargic and “very overweight” I hope anyone (moderator included) would call that sh*t out.


I can't speak for Andrew Doe, but his PMs have nothing to do with what I posted.   I can't speak for the motivations of others, only my own.   So, understand when I get called out for having some sort of "end game" for merely suggesting a Vegas residency would be more beneficial to a 75 year old with back issues in lieu of a full tour, I get a little peaved.  

What happened in 2015-2016 has absolutely 100% NOTHING to do with what I've pointed out in this thread.  



His PMs are part of the reason why bullshit information is a touchy subject on this forum. So when you agree with someone that Brian is “very overweight” and that his back is bad enough for him to quit take up residency in Vegas and you are called out, understand that its partly a reaction to everything that happened here in 2015-2016 (and the years leading up to it) where there was an obvious agenda...whether or not you have one.

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 05:53:02 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 05:58:19 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 06:07:26 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 06:11:58 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 06:18:05 AM
Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 06:19:42 AM
Of course these guys are all old and their age dictates some level of at least an acknowledgement (maybe not always full-on "concern") that their age dictates things are more likely to take a bad turn.

But I'll be honest, I think at this stage Brian's *age* has surprisingly little to do with his level of enthusiasm or lethargy on stage. Last year, his first sets saw some of the most energetic, enthusiastic performances in years. His PS performances were very oddly the exact opposite. But that wasn't because he's old or having health problems. I think he just got bored with PS. Not even bored enough to not want to do the tour. Just bored, plain old bored. It appears they have tried to mitigate this to some degree by doing things like giving Al the lead on "Here Today."

But really, how many shows has Brian canceled due to health issues since going out in 1999? I'm pretty sure Bruce Johnston, who barely does *anything* at Mike's shows (even on an off night and with Al and Blondie and Matt and Darian singing leads, Brian *still* carries his show *far* more than Bruce *ever* has), has missed more shows in the last 15 years due to health issues than Brian.

If you want to just call Brian overweight, then I guess just do it. But there are older, more immobile people than Brian still out there touring. His back issues seemed more prevalent in 2012, and as others have pointed out, I have also known several people (younger than Brian!) with *severe* back issues, and it's something that usually *never* goes away once you've reached the point of surgery. Back surgeries usually don't make one's back a lot better. It often basically curtails further damage and hopefully more severe pain, and ideally helps with pain and some level of mobility. But when you're in your 70s and have back surgery and chronic back problems, it's always going to be an issue. Further, I would also say from experience that *every* person I've known with severe back problems with *absolutely* let it be known when they can't do something. Back issues aren't just a "pushing through the pain" issue. If Brian's back was still severe enough to warrant not touring, he wouldn't be doing it. He wouldn't have a choice. He wouldn't be able to move enough to get out of bed let alone shuffle on stage (with or without help). He wouldn't even be able to *sit* for two hours like he does.

This all reminds me of the infamous 2007 gig where Brian decided to lie down on stage. I was at the show. Not only did it quickly morph into "Brian passed out", etc., it started a huge conversation about whether Brian should be touring. I don't think that conversation was or is invalid. But I also think that, even in 2018, the question of whether he should be touring has not changed from what it was in 1999.

Bottom line, trying to draw some arbitrary point at which *you* think Brian maybe shouldn't be touring doesn't really work when you look at the objective facts. I'm just not a fan of spending a decade going to Brian shows, then all of a sudden seeing a show *you* think is sub-par, and then insinuating things about whether he should be on the road. The question of whether he should be on the road is a valid one from the fan perspective. But it was back in 1999. Hell, it was a valid question back in 1976, and 1982, and 1988, and so on.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 06:26:23 AM

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 06:36:06 AM

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 06:40:28 AM

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 

Okay, well if you're not looking at passage of time or otherwise comparing Brian's appearance to any other period of time, how are you gauging whether *you* feel he's overweight? And not just overweight, but overweight enough to warrant concern?

And, have you continued to attend shows even after you've felt Brian's condition appears to warrant concern?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 06:44:37 AM

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 

Okay, well if you're not looking at passage of time or otherwise comparing Brian's appearance to any other period of time, how are you gauging whether *you* feel he's overweight? And not just overweight, but overweight enough to warrant concern?

And, have you continued to attend shows even after you've felt Brian's condition appears to warrant concern?

At one of the PS shows I attended, Brian did struggle to get to and from the piano. 

By the way, that's not me saying that Brian Wilson should quit touring and sit in a wheelchair for the remainder of his days. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 07:06:10 AM
Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?

Reposting in case this was accidentally missed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 08:53:01 AM
Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?

Reposting in case this was accidentally missed.

Maybe not very overweight, but he could stand to lose some pounds (as could I), as for lethargic, during the PS portion of the show, I have to agree.  Which is why I hope he gets away from doing that album in concert.   I think he's fine during the first half of each show and the encore. 



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 09:05:09 AM
I have to repeat, I don't think Brian's evident boredom performing PS on recent dates has anything to do with his health. He's just bored. One could argue there's a management/PR issue at play (e.g. Tell Brian he sounds and looks bored and either work on fixing that, or move on to some other songs). But his back or his weight has nothing to do with Brian eventually finding PS something of a chore to plow through.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 09:05:14 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 09:17:01 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 09:29:05 AM

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   


How does one act grossing more total money than another not tell the full story? There's *always* a ton of context. Maybe some bands did one show so didn't make the list. U2 plays stadiums *and* charges a ton for tickets. Some bands charge less and play more shows. Some play fewer shows and charge more for tickets. It's absolutely implicit in any list of top grossing artists that such a list isn't ranking anything other than that one figure. 

If anything, the (obvious) main factor that led to Brian making such a list (playing more total shows and for the first time something even in the ballpark compared to how many shows Mike does) is the most interesting takeaway from the list.

Now, that graph that was posted a ways back is interesting because it potentially shows for the first time the *possibility* (and I stress it's only a possibility without further years of data, which we probably won't get as Brian doesn't appear to be planning nearly as many dates this year) that Brian's touring is actually *eating into* Mike's touring numbers.

All of this is interesting not in a "my team beat your team!" context, but rather in the context of the continued standoffish political stuff between the "camps", especially post-C50. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these year-end numbers might annoy Mike to no end, and it's interesting to note that it could have been the reunited Beach Boys doing a "Pet Sounds 50th" tour in 2016 and 2017, where everybody would have helped to pull in even more money.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 09:36:57 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 09:43:51 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
Let us not forget that Brian's $8.5 million gross may have still netted him less money than Mike's $6.9 million gross considering Brian's larger overhead. Not to mention, I believe Mike does far more corporate/private gigs than Brian.

So it's not like anyone should be cheering that Brian personally pocketed more money than Mike last year off of touring. Rather, it's simply interesting that Brian has for apparently the first time grossed more than a band licensing the "Beach Boys" name. What it probably means is a continued uptick in prestige and demand for Brian, and simultaneously a downturn and dilution of Mike's touring brand. Mike is still a long way off from actually struggling in any way while touring. He has already diluted the name and brand and reverted to, in some cases, *very small* venues. I don't think he'd be willing or able to book venues even smaller than what he does now. We'd probably see him finally retire before booking *exclusively* cook-offs and festivals and secondary casino markets.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 09:49:58 AM
Quote
And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 09:53:26 AM
Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 09:55:11 AM
Quote
And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?

Tell me how suggesting a Vegas residency, which many legacy artists have done to reduce the cost and physical strain of touring, for Brian Wilson is a bad thing.   How is this me saying Brian's too frail to tour??

Once again, you and Guitarfool are taking it all the wrong way, and you and he are the ones harping on this.   Not me.  

But once again, anyone who dares say anything that can be interpreted as a negative comment about Brian Wilson is taken to the wood shed.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 09:57:15 AM
Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.

Oh, yes, Hey Jude, show us dullards the way. 

The polls Watamushi creates is much more stimulating to me than this typical BS. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 10:07:42 AM
Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.

Oh, yes, Hey Jude, show us dullards the way. 

The polls Watamushi creates is much more stimulating to me than this typical BS. 

I don't think "dullard" is the right descriptor at all.

I think a pretty small subset of BB fan has a *ridiculous* close-minded preference for the Beach Boys over anything else. This occurs sometimes in conjunction with an equally ridiculous hang-up specifically about the Beatles.

This group of people, even if somewhat small in number, reflect poorly on this board to the point that I think it's embarrassing.

I get it, if you don't think Mike Love doing schtick with John Stamos damages the BBs reputation in any substantial way, you probably also don't think that a group of BB fans spewing ridiculously over-the-top criticisms about the Beatles makes the fan community as a whole (and/or this particular board) look like a bunch of neurotic fans with tunnel vision.

I obviously think otherwise.

My point was that you were quick to question someone's motives about improving this board in another thread, yet you're trying to lecture the moderator of this board about its "reputation." And that's not even treading into the question, which was also lobbed at me in another thread, a question I loathe, which is the "If you hate it so much, why are you posting here?" question.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 10:09:40 AM
Quote
And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?

Tell me how suggesting a Vegas residency, which many legacy artists have done to reduce the cost and physical strain of touring, for Brian Wilson is a bad thing.   How is this me saying Brian's too frail to tour??

Once again, you and Guitarfool are taking it all the wrong way, and you and he are the ones harping on this.   Not me.  

But once again, anyone who dares say anything that can be interpreted as a negative comment about Brian Wilson is taken to the wood shed.  

Never did I say that a Vegas residency would be a bad thing. Never did I say you said Brian is too frail to tour.

You agreed with over-exaggerated facts regarding Brian Wilson, I called it out, you denied it, then you finally admitted to it. Not sure what you’re still going on about.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 10:15:17 AM
Here's an additional, pretty simple reason why someone bringing up Brian's "health", especially someone who tends to be more apologetic regarding some (but not all) of Mike Love's faults, is going to be met with extra skepticism:

There is a pattern, especially over the last 4-5 years, of Mike Love giving interviews and, without prompting, going to town on Brian's past drug/substance abuse problems (certainly "health" issues), the substance abuse problems of Brian's brothers, and Brian's present health in terms of being "medicated." Mike has gone so far as to liken Brian's current status to that of his time with Landy in the 80s/early 90. In addition (and coming across as in conjunction with Mike), one noted publisher of a BB fanzine wrote an article online that was outright *offensive* concerning Brian's current health (this was the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article).

Obviously, back stuff and weight stuff isn't as inflammatory. But it can contribute to a perception of some level of questioning Brian's ability to tour, his control over his life, etc.

Mike Love has also specifically referenced Brian being out of shape, overweight, etc. in recent years. One might normally ascribe a bit more credibility to Mike's insights. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to know Brian very well anymore. Probably hasn't seen him in person in five going on six years, and still incorrectly states the type of mental condition that Brian has been diagnosed with.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 10:27:45 AM
Here's an additional, pretty simple reason why someone bringing up Brian's "health", especially someone who tends to be more apologetic regarding some (but not all) of Mike Love's faults, is going to be met with extra skepticism:

There is a pattern, especially over the last 4-5 years, of Mike Love giving interviews and, without prompting, going to town on Brian's past drug/substance abuse problems (certainly "health" issues), the substance abuse problems of Brian's brothers, and Brian's present health in terms of being "medicated." Mike has gone so far as to liken Brian's current status to that of his time with Landy in the 80s/early 90. In addition (and coming across as in conjunction with Mike), one noted publisher of a BB fanzine wrote an article online that was outright *offensive* concerning Brian's current health (this was the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article).

Obviously, back stuff and weight stuff isn't as inflammatory. But it can contribute to a perception of some level of questioning Brian's ability to tour, his control over his life, etc.

Mike Love has also specifically referenced Brian being out of shape, overweight, etc. in recent years. One might normally ascribe a bit more credibility to Mike's insights. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to know Brian very well anymore. Probably hasn't seen him in person in five going on six years, and still incorrectly states the type of mental condition that Brian has been diagnosed with.

There’s also a pattern of certain posters agreeing with these statements and continuing this false dialogue.

And especially on the PS forum with very impressionable new members, its ridiculous that such posts are made in the face of overwhelming evidence against such banter. I mean, Mike is the guy who just 12 years ago said that Brian did nothing from 1967 onwards but collect royalty checks...eh Sheriff John Stone, Mike sure is a truth tellin guy, right!?

So in light of all that, this is a fandom where facts completely matter. I was swayed by people who claimed Mike was the reason for the collapse of Smile. I believed it, I was wrong in believing it, and some good fans helped me reach a logical conclusion about it. It was bullshit information to begin with, and the same goes for Brian’s health these days. When Mike is making false statements, when fans are agreeing with these false statements, when fans are making false statements of their own (even with this thread exlcluded) it does no good for the fandom.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 10:29:04 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 10:38:44 AM
KDS, when I make over-exaggerations about Mike there are those who rightfully call me out on it. When I make generalizations about whatever there are those who rightfully call me out on it - I mean, HeyJude (my partner in crime here who is simultaneously throwing shade at me about my opinion on the Beatles thread) just recently did this to me, and I welcome it. If I’m wrong about something, then I’m wrong.

Hell, you have swayed my opinion on occasion. But frankly, from my standpoint, I do not see how correcting an over-exaggeration is “ganging up” on you, especially an over-exaggeration that you refused to admit was an over-exaggeration until a page later. In a fandom rife with falsehoods, I think its imperative to keep things factual, no matter how small or inconsiquential the facts are.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 10:42:38 AM
Here's an additional, pretty simple reason why someone bringing up Brian's "health", especially someone who tends to be more apologetic regarding some (but not all) of Mike Love's faults, is going to be met with extra skepticism:

There is a pattern, especially over the last 4-5 years, of Mike Love giving interviews and, without prompting, going to town on Brian's past drug/substance abuse problems (certainly "health" issues), the substance abuse problems of Brian's brothers, and Brian's present health in terms of being "medicated." Mike has gone so far as to liken Brian's current status to that of his time with Landy in the 80s/early 90. In addition (and coming across as in conjunction with Mike), one noted publisher of a BB fanzine wrote an article online that was outright *offensive* concerning Brian's current health (this was the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article).

Obviously, back stuff and weight stuff isn't as inflammatory. But it can contribute to a perception of some level of questioning Brian's ability to tour, his control over his life, etc.

Mike Love has also specifically referenced Brian being out of shape, overweight, etc. in recent years. One might normally ascribe a bit more credibility to Mike's insights. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to know Brian very well anymore. Probably hasn't seen him in person in five going on six years, and still incorrectly states the type of mental condition that Brian has been diagnosed with.

There’s also a pattern of certain posters agreeing with these statements and continuing this false dialogue.

And especially on the PS forum with very impressionable new members, its ridiculous that such posts are made in the face of overwhelming evidence against such banter. I mean, Mike is the guy who just 12 years ago said that Brian did nothing from 1967 onwards but collect royalty checks...eh Sheriff John Stone, Mike sure is a truth tellin guy, right!?

So in light of all that, this is a fandom where facts completely matter. I was swayed by people who claimed Mike was the reason for the collapse of Smile. I believed it, I was wrong in believing it, and some good fans helped me reach a logical conclusion about it. It was bullshit information to begin with, and the same goes for Brian’s health these days. When Mike is making false statements, when fans are agreeing with these false statements, when fans are making false statements of their own (even with this thread exlcluded) it does no good for the fandom.

Part of what has happened is that new fans, while absolutely welcomed and an awesome thing to see, often believe that because they can go on the internet, buy a few books, they can become a hardcore expert on the band very quickly.

I'm not saying everyone has to be a first-generation, "seen it all" sort of fan. But living with this band and its history for many years does give one a richer perspective.

I've had back-and-forths with fans who seem kind of incredulous about all of the ire pointed at Mike Love, and then they tell me "oh, I've been fan since 2012." And I think, yeah, okay, *that's* probably why. If you digest everything very quickly, if you buy all of the albums and listen to them all of the first time in the span of weeks or months, if you digest in mere months all of the contemptible things Mike has said over 50 years, then the impact is blunted quite a bit.

There's no perfect way to become a fan or digest everything. But I do think "new fans" are needed but also the most vulnerable to a fractured fan base with some folks who do have an agenda. And sometimes the agenda is fence-walking for the sake of fence-walking.

This also extends to the other stuff I've been talking about, the weird sort of circle-jerk of BB fans who think "Diamond Head" is better than anything the Beatles ever did. Among the most sad, injurious things to new BB fans I can think of, BB fans that aren't into other bands (the Beatles or any other), is a thread just comically trashing music that *most BB fans* would actually love if they actually took it in and got over the "my team was robbed of the pennant" mentality.

And of course, when BB scholars try to tell a new fan that a cryptic e-mail from Brian's wife is the reason C50 ended, that's laughably false and usually purposely misleadingly so.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
KDS, when I make over-exaggerations about Mike there are those who rightfully call me out on it. When I make generalizations about whatever there are those who rightfully call me out on it - I mean, HeyJude (my partner in crime here who is simultaneously throwing shade at me about my opinion on the Beatles thread) just recently did this to me, and I welcome it. If I’m wrong about something, then I’m wrong.

Hell, you have swayed my opinion on occasion. But frankly, from my standpoint, I do not see how correcting an over-exaggeration is “ganging up” on you, especially an over-exaggeration that you refused to admit was an over-exaggeration until a page later. In a fandom rife with falsehoods, I think its imperative to keep things factual, no matter how small or inconsiquential the facts are.

In all fairness rab, and I'm sorry for calling you out there, but you're not the main culprit here. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 10:49:32 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  


Have you ever suggested the notion of Mike and Bruce taking up a Vegas residency and quitting the road?

If not, do you think that is a valid suggestion for them as much as you think it would be better for Brian Wilson? And reasons why or why not would be helpful in understanding some of your comments.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 10:51:58 AM
And of course, when BB scholars try to tell a new fan that a cryptic e-mail from Brian's wife is the reason C50 ended, that's laughably false and usually purposely misleadingly so.

Mike Love himself tried to tell that to fans in the past few weeks! Those ersatz "scholars" turned out to be not much more than mouthpieces or parrots.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 10:57:49 AM
HeyJude, excluding the Beatles discussions, I completely agree with your above post.

I was a very impressionable fan (hell I still am in some ways) and was definitely a Brianista when I first became a fan. Brian could never do any wrong, Mike sucked for tanking Smile, Mike sucked for every reason under the sun, I mean I can’t imagine how embarrassing my first posts here are. But since then I’ve seen a lot, heard a lot, read a lot - whether on the board, off the board, etc. And I still have a long way to go as a fan.

Us fans have our own unique perceptions of the band - they’re like fingerprints: no two perceptions are alike. So its easy to get into arguments when someone dares burst the bubble of our perception...we’ll even argue with people we mostly agree with. I am still learning about this band, and my opinion has evolved immensely in the last couple years, and it will continue to evolve as more interviews come out, more documentaries are made, more sets released, more books are written, more people speak up about this or that.

I think I somewhat understand why people on both ends of the spectrum think like they do. I think varying perceptions from both sides of the aisle can help create a realistic picture of the band and the history. But again, facts are absolutely necessary for our perceptions to be credible. If we don’t use facts, whether it’s Mike or some new fan on a forum, we’re doing the fandom and the history of the band a huge disservice.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 10:57:58 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  


Have you ever suggested the notion of Mike and Bruce taking up a Vegas residency and quitting the road?

If not, do you think that is a valid suggestion for them as much as you think it would be better for Brian Wilson? And reasons why or why not would be helpful in understanding some of your comments.

I think a Vegas residency could be good for Mike and Bruce as well.  

At their age, do they really need to be all over the place, doing 168 shows a year, sometimes two in a day??  I really don't think so.  

Like I said about Brian, these guys are not spring chickens, and they do more shows than most legacy artists around their age.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:01:27 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: the captain on January 30, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
Is it over yet? Did I win?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:06:08 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  


Have you ever suggested the notion of Mike and Bruce taking up a Vegas residency and quitting the road?

If not, do you think that is a valid suggestion for them as much as you think it would be better for Brian Wilson? And reasons why or why not would be helpful in understanding some of your comments.

I think a Vegas residency could be good for Mike and Bruce as well.  

At their age, do they really need to be all over the place, doing 168 shows a year, sometimes two in a day??  I really don't think so.  

Like I said about Brian, these guys are not spring chickens, and they do more shows than most legacy artists around their age.  


I don't think so either. But if I suggested they hang up the chinos and Hawaiian shirts for a bit and stop the heavy touring, I'd probably be accused of bashing Mike.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 11:07:05 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Threa
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 11:09:32 AM
Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  


Have you ever suggested the notion of Mike and Bruce taking up a Vegas residency and quitting the road?

If not, do you think that is a valid suggestion for them as much as you think it would be better for Brian Wilson? And reasons why or why not would be helpful in understanding some of your comments.

I think a Vegas residency could be good for Mike and Bruce as well.  

At their age, do they really need to be all over the place, doing 168 shows a year, sometimes two in a day??  I really don't think so.  

Like I said about Brian, these guys are not spring chickens, and they do more shows than most legacy artists around their age.  


I don't think so either. But if I suggested they hang up the chinos and Hawaiian shirts for a bit and stop the heavy touring, I'd probably be accused of bashing Mike.

I only accuse you of Mike bashing when you actually do it.  Suggesting a chance of wardrobe and less shows isn't bashing.  Much like my suggestion of a Vegas residency and the long overdue retirement of Pet Sound Live is not Brian bashing. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 11:10:03 AM
HeyJude, excluding the Beatles discussions, I completely agree with your above post.

I was a very impressionable fan (hell I still am in some ways) and was definitely a Brianista when I first became a fan. Brian could never do any wrong, Mike sucked for tanking Smile, Mike sucked for every reason under the sun, I mean I can’t imagine how embarrassing my first posts here are. But since then I’ve seen a lot, heard a lot, read a lot - whether on the board, off the board, etc. And I still have a long way to go as a fan.

Us fans have our own unique perceptions of the band - they’re like fingerprints: no two perceptions are alike. So its easy to get into arguments when someone dares burst the bubble of our perception...we’ll even argue with people we mostly agree with. I am still learning about this band, and my opinion has evolved immensely in the last couple years, and it will continue to evolve as more interviews come out, more documentaries are made, more sets released, more books are written, more people speak up about this or that.

I think I somewhat understand why people on both ends of the spectrum think like they do. I think varying perceptions from both sides of the aisle can help create a realistic picture of the band and the history. But again, facts are absolutely necessary for our perceptions to be credible. If we don’t use facts, whether it’s Mike or some new fan on a forum, we’re doing the fandom and the history of the band a huge disservice.

I think sometimes some of the stuff I read can be quite damaging. For instance, on another board, I actually saw someone post the following (I'm paraphrasing a bit):

Why would Brian and Melinda schedule an after-tour dinner for a time when Mike and Bruce were unable to attend due to a charity event?

Unless this was posted with the most subtle, dry sense of irony ever, I think this person truly has this twisted logic. That Mike and Bruce not showing up at the tour-ending dinner was somehow Brian's fault for not scheduling it around Mike's schedule. This obviously ignores the obvious, that numerous members of Mike's band were at the dinner, pretty much disproving the idea that Mike's band needed to leave early to do a gig. And even if someone had some other personal issue to attend to, what are the chances that Mike *and* Bruce both had a pressing scheduling issue that *nobody* else including members of Mike's band had?

These are the same people that still post that Al's 1998 exit was just a case of Al being a dick, that John Stamos and "Full House" did not one ounce of harm to the BB's image, the same fans that in some cases seemed to *celebrate* Mike quitting the reunion in 2012.

Someone needs to at least try to make sure new fans don't gobble that garbage up.

And yeah, I think my previous posts in the "Beatles vs. Beach Boys" threads were more a case of just trying to put something in there saying "Hey everyone in the future who might read this! Not all Beach Boys fans blindly think seemingly nearly everything they did is better than any other band!"

I have by no means the widest musical tastes imaginable. I still feel like I don't try enough stuff outside of my preference/wheelhouse. But geez man, some of the tunnel vision from BB fans (and other fanbases) is unsettling. I recall someone liking Brian's cover of "Wanderlust" a few years ago, and I mentioned that it would be worth checking out McCartney's original. No dice. They didn't care. They didn't care about the song. They just cared that Brian was singing it. *That's* the type of fandom I try to snap people out of if I can, the fandom that, in the extreme, owns and listens to "Problem Child" and "Summer of Love" but hasn't even listened to "Sgt. Pepper" all the way through.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:12:23 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  



I'm wondering why there is the need to continue bringing up these "well documented facts" among certain groups of fans whenever Brian's touring is discussed. Can you answer that, KDS?

If you're giving the "it's all about the music" line in a reply, maybe it would help if you explained how reminding people of Brian Wilson's health issues in discussions about a tour has anything to do with the music, or even the enjoyment ticket-buyers might get from seeing Brian perform live.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Kid Presentable on January 30, 2018, 11:19:44 AM
It's still really problematic that one of the mods of this board is an aggressive partisan.  Mod or get off the pot, I say.

Back closer to the original topic.  It is a weird debate because they are two different models, and both are relatively successful at their different model.  Why is one a loser and one a winner?

Brian is able to charge more for his tickets because of reasons such as playing fewer dates, bringing a somewhat higher quality (artistically/venue-wise) product, and, the thing that nobody has mentioned yet, one important reason why Brian is able to charge more money is THE BIOPIC.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 11:24:05 AM
but you're not the main culprit here.  

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  

I think much of the assessment you agreed with is problematic, incomplete, and in some cases untrue.

Lethargic and uninvolved on stage? During PS, sometimes yes (I'd say "bored" is a bit different than "lethargic", but close enough). During the first set? Total opposite at many shows. Again, this is a CLEAR indication to me that Brian doesn't have a health-related reason for any apparent lethargy or boredom. He's just tired of singing the PS songs. A problem, yes, but not in the way it's being framed. It's the same problem the BBs had going through the motions in the 90s, perhaps more magnified because Brian's older I suppose.

His voice being more degraded over the last three years? Not really, in my opinion. Brian's singing has always been hit and miss, and I don't think his voice sounds any different across the board in 2017 versus 2012 or earlier. It depends on the day he's having, the material he's singing, and so on. Brian sounded pretty ragged during C50 on "This Whole World" or "Good Timin'." He did some great lead vocals in 2017 during the first set of many shows.

Again, I think misgivings about Brian touring have been there since 1999, and they are largely the same now. I think some fans just pick an arbitrary point where the show is no longer doing "it" for *them*, and then all of a sudden questions start surfacing about "Brian's not looking too good", and in extremes, calls for him to retire.

Again, if you've been a fan and have read these boards and fan groups since the 90s, especially since Brian started touring in 1999, there have ALWAYS been calls for Brian to quit. *EVERY* tour.

In 1999, he wasn't playing his keyboard. Therefore, he shouldn't be touring.

In 2001, he was doing shorter shows because it was the Paul Simon tour. Therefore, Brian can't pull off a full show anymore and he shouldn't be out there.

All the way back in 2002/2003, there were already calls that he was "beating a dead horse" by doing more PS tours.

In 2005, he didn't a second year of Smile touring. No, he's doing too much. Or, "he's running out of ideas." Fans occasionally can so quickly become jaded. Brian Wilson finishes literally the most legendary unreleased album of all time, and 12 months later it's "Meh, not *that* again!"

In 2006, he only did a smattering of shows, and they were "Greatest Hits" shows. Guess what? "Now Brian's doing more surf and car songs! Time to retire!"

Brian tours PS with Al in 2006/2007. People complained. Not again! Even though it was something like 10 shows.

Brian does "hits" tour in Europe in 2007. Al drops out due to politics (not Al's fault really, though a story for another time), Darian and Bennett miss the tour and Billy Hinsche and Gary Griffin are fill-ins. People say the shows are boring, Brian doesn't care, and Hinsche and Griffin according to one noted "expert/historian", aren't cutting it.

You get the idea. Remember C50? I remember numerous defenders of Mike claiming there was NO WAY Brian could hold up to doing 73 shows for another year, let alone MORE. Yet, he did around 100 shows in 2016 as I recall, and a somewhat similar amount in 2017.

There are weird elements to Brian's shows. You do have to "get it." He has bad days, and this sometimes is reflected on stage. Out of the 12 or 15 or however many times I've seen it, I've seen every type of show. The "Hrmmm, should Brian be touring?" question is not wholly invalid. But the question is the same now as it was in 1999 more or less.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 11:31:38 AM
It's still really problematic that one of the mods of this board is an aggressive partisan.  Mod or get off the pot, I say.

Back closer to the original topic.  It is a weird debate because they are two different models, and both are relatively successful at their different model.  Why is one a loser and one a winner?

Brian is able to charge more for his tickets because of reasons such as playing fewer dates, bringing a somewhat higher quality (artistically/venue-wise) product, and, the thing that nobody has mentioned yet, one important reason why Brian is able to charge more money is THE BIOPIC.  

Looking at Brian's tour revenue versus Mike isn't a case of needing to debate it or say one guy "beat" the other. But it's ignoring the band's history (and denying simple fan/scholar curiosity) to not see it as an interesting statistic.

The tours run off of different "operations" models, but they both are in the most general ways more similar than different, in the last couple years anyway. It's a band criss-crossing the globe performing concerts in order to make money, pulled from the same core catalog of music (with some areas where they diverge of course).

This is all even more interesting in light of C50. It's more interesting in light of Al being full-time on the tour now. Brian for the first time has, in the last several years, and likely in reaction to Mike quitting the band in 2012, presented something truly closer to his "version" of a "Beach Boys" show. No, they are not exactly the same. They have slightly different setlist prompts (Mike does anything released by the BBs, Brian sticks mainly to stuff he's has written or co-written), but they're similar operations generally speaking.

That there have been intimations in interviews as well as passing references in lawsuit filings to Brian and Al (together and separately) being some sort of competition to Mike's BB tour only makes these statistics more interesting.

By most objective measures, "on paper" Mike should be easily pulling in more money touring than Brian, even when they're performing the same number of shows. I think Brian's name just trumps the BB in some circles in a way Mike would probably not admit, and also probably more prominently this all points to Mike *over-extending* the brand, stretching it WAY too thin. But it probably doesn't matter anymore. The time to take longer breaks between tours and build up demand was five, ten, 20, 30 years ago. Mike skipping 2018 and coming back in 2019 probably wouldn't make a HUGE difference at this point, this late in the game.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 11:36:27 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  



I'm wondering why there is the need to continue bringing up these "well documented facts" among certain groups of fans whenever Brian's touring is discussed. Can you answer that, KDS?

If you're giving the "it's all about the music" line in a reply, maybe it would help if you explained how reminding people of Brian Wilson's health issues in discussions about a tour has anything to do with the music, or even the enjoyment ticket-buyers might get from seeing Brian perform live.

I've answered your questions enough today, GF, but I know no answer from me will satisfy you, so I'm going to be the bigger fan and walk away from this nonsense rather than hijack this thread any longer than it has to be. 



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: rab2591 on January 30, 2018, 11:37:26 AM
HeyJude, excluding the Beatles discussions, I completely agree with your above post.

I was a very impressionable fan (hell I still am in some ways) and was definitely a Brianista when I first became a fan. Brian could never do any wrong, Mike sucked for tanking Smile, Mike sucked for every reason under the sun, I mean I can’t imagine how embarrassing my first posts here are. But since then I’ve seen a lot, heard a lot, read a lot - whether on the board, off the board, etc. And I still have a long way to go as a fan.

Us fans have our own unique perceptions of the band - they’re like fingerprints: no two perceptions are alike. So its easy to get into arguments when someone dares burst the bubble of our perception...we’ll even argue with people we mostly agree with. I am still learning about this band, and my opinion has evolved immensely in the last couple years, and it will continue to evolve as more interviews come out, more documentaries are made, more sets released, more books are written, more people speak up about this or that.

I think I somewhat understand why people on both ends of the spectrum think like they do. I think varying perceptions from both sides of the aisle can help create a realistic picture of the band and the history. But again, facts are absolutely necessary for our perceptions to be credible. If we don’t use facts, whether it’s Mike or some new fan on a forum, we’re doing the fandom and the history of the band a huge disservice.

I think sometimes some of the stuff I read can be quite damaging. For instance, on another board, I actually saw someone post the following (I'm paraphrasing a bit):

Why would Brian and Melinda schedule an after-tour dinner for a time when Mike and Bruce were unable to attend due to a charity event?

Unless this was posted with the most subtle, dry sense of irony ever, I think this person truly has this twisted logic. That Mike and Bruce not showing up at the tour-ending dinner was somehow Brian's fault for not scheduling it around Mike's schedule. This obviously ignores the obvious, that numerous members of Mike's band were at the dinner, pretty much disproving the idea that Mike's band needed to leave early to do a gig. And even if someone had some other personal issue to attend to, what are the chances that Mike *and* Bruce both had a pressing scheduling issue that *nobody* else including members of Mike's band had?

These are the same people that still post that Al's 1998 exit was just a case of Al being a dick, that John Stamos and "Full House" did not on ounce of harm to the BB's image, the same fans that in some cases seemed to *celebrate* Mike quitting the reunion in 2012.

Someone needs to at least try to make sure new fans don't gobble that garbage up.

And yeah, I think my previous posts in the "Beatles vs. Beach Boys" threads were more a case of just trying to put something in there saying "Hey everyone in the future who might read this! Not all Beach Boys fans blindly think seemingly nearly everything they did is better than any other band!"

I have by no means the widest musical tastes imaginable. I still feel like I don't try enough stuff outside of my preference/wheelhouse. But geez man, some of the tunnel vision from BB fans (and other fanbases) is unsettling. I recall someone liking Brian's cover of "Wanderlust" a few years ago, and I mentioned that it would be worth checking out McCartney's original. No dice. They didn't care. They didn't care about the song. They just cared that Brian was singing it. *That's* the type of fandom I try to snap people out of if I can, the fandom that, in the extreme, owns and listens to "Problem Child" and "Summer of Love" but hasn't even listened to "Sgt. Pepper" all the way through.

Yeah, I think where my irritation about the “facts” stems from is that I was once an impressionable fan swayed by false information. And I’ve seen it done since, and probably will continue to see it. The PS Forum is a growing forum and to see false information being thrown around is insulting to the fandom. But it’s from the same group of usuals who also think its cool to openly mock Brian and Melinda Wilson for years to prove a point...yeah, thats who I want to get my information from. I’m totally down to see a new forum spring up, but I hope the new fans there take some of those posts made there with a grain of salt. Best thing I learned from this fandom: do your own research - dig and ask questions on or off the board. You’ll learn a lot, open some doors, and you’ll understand things a whole lot better. No matter what side of the aisle you sit on, always seek the truth.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:37:44 AM
Again, if you've been a fan and have read these boards and fan groups since the 90s, especially since Brian started touring in 1999, there have ALWAYS been calls for Brian to quit. *EVERY* tour.

Apologies for pulling out this one sentence, because the whole of your post was 100% correct in detailing the reactions to every tour the man has done. That's fact, and I saw it play out too. Nearly 20 years of it, as I said in an earlier post.

But I pulled this quote out to ask specifically *why* you think this is the case, beyond possibly fans getting bored with it and reacting like this. I'm also curious if you've noticed especially in recent years fans of a certain mindset making these calls versus other groups of fans, and I'll leave that to be interpreted however someone chooses to take it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:42:02 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  



I'm wondering why there is the need to continue bringing up these "well documented facts" among certain groups of fans whenever Brian's touring is discussed. Can you answer that, KDS?

If you're giving the "it's all about the music" line in a reply, maybe it would help if you explained how reminding people of Brian Wilson's health issues in discussions about a tour has anything to do with the music, or even the enjoyment ticket-buyers might get from seeing Brian perform live.

I've answered your questions enough today, GF, but I know no answer from me will satisfy you, so I'm going to be the bigger fan and walk away from this nonsense rather than hijack this thread any longer than it has to be. 



You won't answer a basic question, KDS, which your posts brought up in the first place? Why is there a need to bring up Brian's health issues whenever his touring is discussed, and what does it have to do with being "all about the music"?



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 11:53:41 AM
but you're not the main culprit here. 

You're right, it was this:


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it.  

Your concerns about Brian's health seem to be more of an issue with you than it does Brian, his fans and the ticket-buying public, and most who have seen him play live and plan to see him live sometime this year.

Your willingness to agree with these things and raise the issues as others do regularly across multiple forums, then try to avoid or deflect when questioned or asked for a clarification, fall into line with the actions and responses of quite a few former members and discussions. Coincidence?

But hey, keep reminding people of how Brian has a bad back, the lethargy, the boredom, the overweight issue, how the Pet Sounds set ran its course, and all the rest of those points.

Because all of that is talking "all about the music", right?

And, other that the exaggeration about Brian's weight, please tell me what part of that assessment is untrue?  

And I don't have to remind people of those issues.   They're all well documented facts.  

But, yet, somehow I'm out to get poor victim Brian.  



I'm wondering why there is the need to continue bringing up these "well documented facts" among certain groups of fans whenever Brian's touring is discussed. Can you answer that, KDS?

If you're giving the "it's all about the music" line in a reply, maybe it would help if you explained how reminding people of Brian Wilson's health issues in discussions about a tour has anything to do with the music, or even the enjoyment ticket-buyers might get from seeing Brian perform live.

I've answered your questions enough today, GF, but I know no answer from me will satisfy you, so I'm going to be the bigger fan and walk away from this nonsense rather than hijack this thread any longer than it has to be. 



You won't answer a basic question, KDS, which your posts brought up in the first place? Why is there a need to bring up Brian's health issues whenever his touring is discussed, and what does it have to do with being "all about the music"?



Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 11:55:52 AM
HeyJude, excluding the Beatles discussions, I completely agree with your above post.

I was a very impressionable fan (hell I still am in some ways) and was definitely a Brianista when I first became a fan. Brian could never do any wrong, Mike sucked for tanking Smile, Mike sucked for every reason under the sun, I mean I can’t imagine how embarrassing my first posts here are. But since then I’ve seen a lot, heard a lot, read a lot - whether on the board, off the board, etc. And I still have a long way to go as a fan.

Us fans have our own unique perceptions of the band - they’re like fingerprints: no two perceptions are alike. So its easy to get into arguments when someone dares burst the bubble of our perception...we’ll even argue with people we mostly agree with. I am still learning about this band, and my opinion has evolved immensely in the last couple years, and it will continue to evolve as more interviews come out, more documentaries are made, more sets released, more books are written, more people speak up about this or that.

I think I somewhat understand why people on both ends of the spectrum think like they do. I think varying perceptions from both sides of the aisle can help create a realistic picture of the band and the history. But again, facts are absolutely necessary for our perceptions to be credible. If we don’t use facts, whether it’s Mike or some new fan on a forum, we’re doing the fandom and the history of the band a huge disservice.

I think sometimes some of the stuff I read can be quite damaging. For instance, on another board, I actually saw someone post the following (I'm paraphrasing a bit):

Why would Brian and Melinda schedule an after-tour dinner for a time when Mike and Bruce were unable to attend due to a charity event?

Unless this was posted with the most subtle, dry sense of irony ever, I think this person truly has this twisted logic. That Mike and Bruce not showing up at the tour-ending dinner was somehow Brian's fault for not scheduling it around Mike's schedule. This obviously ignores the obvious, that numerous members of Mike's band were at the dinner, pretty much disproving the idea that Mike's band needed to leave early to do a gig. And even if someone had some other personal issue to attend to, what are the chances that Mike *and* Bruce both had a pressing scheduling issue that *nobody* else including members of Mike's band had?

These are the same people that still post that Al's 1998 exit was just a case of Al being a dick, that John Stamos and "Full House" did not on ounce of harm to the BB's image, the same fans that in some cases seemed to *celebrate* Mike quitting the reunion in 2012.

Someone needs to at least try to make sure new fans don't gobble that garbage up.

And yeah, I think my previous posts in the "Beatles vs. Beach Boys" threads were more a case of just trying to put something in there saying "Hey everyone in the future who might read this! Not all Beach Boys fans blindly think seemingly nearly everything they did is better than any other band!"

I have by no means the widest musical tastes imaginable. I still feel like I don't try enough stuff outside of my preference/wheelhouse. But geez man, some of the tunnel vision from BB fans (and other fanbases) is unsettling. I recall someone liking Brian's cover of "Wanderlust" a few years ago, and I mentioned that it would be worth checking out McCartney's original. No dice. They didn't care. They didn't care about the song. They just cared that Brian was singing it. *That's* the type of fandom I try to snap people out of if I can, the fandom that, in the extreme, owns and listens to "Problem Child" and "Summer of Love" but hasn't even listened to "Sgt. Pepper" all the way through.

Yeah, I think where my irritation about the “facts” stems from is that I was once an impressionable fan swayed by false information. And I’ve seen it done since, and probably will continue to see it. The PS Forum is a growing forum and to see false information being thrown around is insulting to the fandom. But it’s from the same group of usuals who also think its cool to openly mock Brian and Melinda Wilson for years to prove a point...yeah, thats who I want to get my information from. I’m totally down to see a new forum spring up, but I hope the new fans there take some of those posts made there with a grain of salt. Best thing I learned from this fandom: do your own research - dig and ask questions on or off the board. You’ll learn a lot, open some doors, and you’ll understand things a whole lot better. No matter what side of the aisle you sit on, always seek the truth.

The whole ridiculous scene that happened here for years was due to the passing of bad if not slanderous information to often young, impressionable fans who didn't know any better, and those who did it now have free reign to continue doing it. I got messages of that kind too, which turned out to be either completely false or even personally slanderous, but now all of that has a new home for better or worse. If fans choose to believe people who have lied and spread false information to try to 'sway' impressionable fans into shaping facts into opinions a certain way, all that can be said is be careful of those selling that snake-oil and keep in mind the complete falsehoods that were told and spread by these keepers of the information in the past.

Reminds me of the old Westerns when a wagon would pull up in town, a fast-talking huckster masquerading as a doctor would stand on a crate in the town center and sell a miracle "cure all" tonic to unsuspecting townsfolk, and the night before anyone found out it was sugar water and not a miracle cure, those hucksters would quietly pack the wagon and ship out...heading for the next town full of unsuspecting suckers who would buy the tonic. Repeat ad infinitum.

I'd also say it's harder to seek the truth when there is an atmosphere as existed here,  now existing elsewhere with the same hucksters trying to sell the same sugar water to unsuspecting townsfolk.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 12:00:34 PM
Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Right. It's all about the music, too.




He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 30, 2018, 12:02:05 PM
Again, if you've been a fan and have read these boards and fan groups since the 90s, especially since Brian started touring in 1999, there have ALWAYS been calls for Brian to quit. *EVERY* tour.

Apologies for pulling out this one sentence, because the whole of your post was 100% correct in detailing the reactions to every tour the man has done. That's fact, and I saw it play out too. Nearly 20 years of it, as I said in an earlier post.

But I pulled this quote out to ask specifically *why* you think this is the case, beyond possibly fans getting bored with it and reacting like this. I'm also curious if you've noticed especially in recent years fans of a certain mindset making these calls versus other groups of fans, and I'll leave that to be interpreted however someone chooses to take it.

I think Brian is a unique situation, a unique show. For "outsiders" who don't know anything about his life or his history, his live performances can be really weird. It's easy for that type of observer to say Brian's in no shape to perform live. I do understand that.

I think, all else being equal, it's not so much "Brian's nuts and shouldn't be touring", but it's more the same reason some people don't dig on a Bob Dylan concert, or Tom Waits, or Nick Cave, or whatever. Brian's voice, for a variety of common and less common reasons, is challenged, especially in concert settings.

I knew all this as a long-time fan going into the 1999 tour. I had seen the "Imagination" TV appearances. I had seen Brian at past BB shows. The weird, hyped up (maybe coked out?) performances on the 1977 tour. The quiet, off to the side performances from 1979 and 1980. The weird Landy-devised appearances of the late 80s (tight leather pants?). I know what I was getting into.

It was transcendent in ways I don't think even huge fans could have imagined. It was also still weird. Brian sang the wrong words during one song because he probably *shouldn't* have been using the teleprompter so much; he actually *didn't* need it. Brian in early 1999 shows did "fake" play the piano. But not because he *can't* play piano. It's because, for some reason, he had the idea that he couldn't just sit and sing (which is what he did on the 2000 tour I saw, resulting in some of his best vocals, as if he was cutting them in a studio).

But Brian fans "get" it. We can at times be overly forgiving. But it's not because simply he's "our guy", it's because we know the wringer he's been through, *numerous* times. And he *can* put on a good show. He can get in a good mood, and sing with gusto and energy. To this day.

My issue is that the misgivings were justified to some degree back in 1999, but we haven't really been given any further definitive info one way or the other since then. The same is true today as it was in 1999, and as a fan we either accept it and go to the show, or we don't. I respect both decisions. Have I ever wondered whether Brian should still be touring? Sure. I was at the 2007 show with Al where Brian decided to lay down on stage. There's no way that *wasn't* weird. But I also don't think he had  hit some new wall that wasn't there in 1999. He had bad days in 1999. He had a *really bad day* in 2007. And sometimes he also has "regular" bad days; he has a cold or just feels crummy or whatever.

But Brian touring is a unique thing unto itself in some ways, and that's why what some may feel is a simple call to question his weight or whatever is not simply a normal observation. It comes loaded with 50 years of band politics.

I don't think, pre-2012, there was much of any huge mechanism trying to actively tear Brian down. That *did* change post-C50. Those Mike interviews, those Beard pieces, those read to me (and it's just my opinion) to be a clear, active campaign to tear Brian down. I think some other fans that maybe tended to be a bit more friendly to Mike's "side" of things may have unknowingly been made a part of that sort of campaign.

I think there is a litmus test, in my mind, for how realistic a fan is willing to be about the deep, hardcore (unfortunate) politics surrounding this band. There are several litmus tests, but one is this: Do you think Jeff Foskett jumping from Brian's band to Mike's is a political move, and comes across (and maybe even was devised as) a big F-You to Melinda Wilson? If your answer is no, then I often fear that means you're either actively part of some weird campaign to paint Mike in a positive light, or you're unknowingly falling into that trap.

I don't think KDS came on this thread to rip Brian a new one. I think, as a *somewhat* newer/new-ish fan (meaing not decades and decades), he maybe doesn't see how defending Mike on average more than a typical fan, and then also saying some things that might reflect negatively on Brian, will often be met with a questioning of motives.

If we can be frank, I think KDS is (and I mean this as an absolutely neutral label, TRULY, because I can't think of a better descriptor) a fan of the fence-walking variety. There's no lack of a willingness to criticize both sides, but sometimes I sense of sake of false equivalency for the sake of it. There is indeed a fine line between being truly even-handed and fence-walking for the sake of it. I'm for criticizing only when it's warranted, but that doesn't mean "say one nice thing about this, and then one nice thing about that." So yeah, when it comes to hugely divisive stuff like C50, I have less patience, having studied that project as closely as one possibly could (and perhaps being privy to some things not published out there), for a "well, it was everybody's fault" attitude.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop for the moment.  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 12:05:30 PM
Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Right. It's all about the music, too.




He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 

Uncle Walter was responding to your taking an issue with my post.   Other than the fact that I've acknowledged that "very overweight" is an exaggeration, what does that statement say that's not factual?   And how is pointing it out a bad thing, GF? 

Or do you want to continue to hijack this thread for four more pages? 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 30, 2018, 12:13:43 PM
Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Right. It's all about the music, too.




He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 

Uncle Walter was responding to your taking an issue with my post.   Other than the fact that I've acknowledged that "very overweight" is an exaggeration, what does that statement say that's not factual?   And how is pointing it out a bad thing, GF? 

Or do you want to continue to hijack this thread for four more pages? 

You can try to paint my questions as hijacking or whatever else you want to do to deflect from answering them. Including answering a direct question by trying to flip it back on me.

I'll ask again, direct question: Why is there a need to bring up Brian's health issues whenever his touring is being discussed? And that extends to those who do it regularly.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 12:23:49 PM
Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Right. It's all about the music, too.




He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 

Uncle Walter was responding to your taking an issue with my post.   Other than the fact that I've acknowledged that "very overweight" is an exaggeration, what does that statement say that's not factual?   And how is pointing it out a bad thing, GF? 

Or do you want to continue to hijack this thread for four more pages? 

You can try to paint my questions as hijacking or whatever else you want to do to deflect from answering them. Including answering a direct question by trying to flip it back on me.

I'll ask again, direct question: Why is there a need to bring up Brian's health issues whenever his touring is being discussed? And that extends to those who do it regularly.

Well, guitarfool, I don't bring up Brian's health every single time a tour is mentioned, so I can't possibly answer your question.   

So, you'd have to go and question every single person who raises the issue. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jim V. on January 30, 2018, 12:39:33 PM
Again, if you've been a fan and have read these boards and fan groups since the 90s, especially since Brian started touring in 1999, there have ALWAYS been calls for Brian to quit. *EVERY* tour.

Apologies for pulling out this one sentence, because the whole of your post was 100% correct in detailing the reactions to every tour the man has done. That's fact, and I saw it play out too. Nearly 20 years of it, as I said in an earlier post.

But I pulled this quote out to ask specifically *why* you think this is the case, beyond possibly fans getting bored with it and reacting like this. I'm also curious if you've noticed especially in recent years fans of a certain mindset making these calls versus other groups of fans, and I'll leave that to be interpreted however someone chooses to take it.

I think Brian is a unique situation, a unique show. For "outsiders" who don't know anything about his life or his history, his live performances can be really weird. It's easy for that type of observer to say Brian's in no shape to perform live. I do understand that.

I think, all else being equal, it's not so much "Brian's nuts and shouldn't be touring", but it's more the same reason some people don't dig on a Bob Dylan concert, or Tom Waits, or Nick Cave, or whatever. Brian's voice, for a variety of common and less common reasons, is challenged, especially in concert settings.

I knew all this as a long-time fan going into the 1999 tour. I had seen the "Imagination" TV appearances. I had seen Brian at past BB shows. The weird, hyped up (maybe coked out?) performances on the 1977 tour. The quiet, off to the side performances from 1979 and 1980. The weird Landy-devised appearances of the late 80s (tight leather pants?). I know what I was getting into.

It was transcendent in ways I don't think even huge fans could have imagined. It was also still weird. Brian sang the wrong words during one song because he probably *shouldn't* have been using the teleprompter so much; he actually *didn't* need it. Brian in early 1999 shows did "fake" play the piano. But not because he *can't* play piano. It's because, for some reason, he had the idea that he couldn't just sit and sing (which is what he did on the 2000 tour I saw, resulting in some of his best vocals, as if he was cutting them in a studio).

But Brian fans "get" it. We can at times be overly forgiving. But it's not because simply he's "our guy", it's because we know the wringer he's been through, *numerous* times. And he *can* put on a good show. He can get in a good mood, and sing with gusto and energy. To this day.

My issue is that the misgivings were justified to some degree back in 1999, but we haven't really been given any further definitive info one way or the other since then. The same is true today as it was in 1999, and as a fan we either accept it and go to the show, or we don't. I respect both decisions. Have I ever wondered whether Brian should still be touring? Sure. I was at the 2007 show with Al where Brian decided to lay down on stage. There's no way that *wasn't* weird. But I also don't think he had  hit some new wall that wasn't there in 1999. He had bad days in 1999. He had a *really bad day* in 2007. And sometimes he also has "regular" bad days; he has a cold or just feels crummy or whatever.

But Brian touring is a unique thing unto itself in some ways, and that's why what some may feel is a simple call to question his weight or whatever is not simply a normal observation. It comes loaded with 50 years of band politics.

I don't think, pre-2012, there was much of any huge mechanism trying to actively tear Brian down. That *did* change post-C50. Those Mike interviews, those Beard pieces, those read to me (and it's just my opinion) to be a clear, active campaign to tear Brian down. I think some other fans that maybe tended to be a bit more friendly to Mike's "side" of things may have unknowingly been made a part of that sort of campaign.

I think there is a litmus test, in my mind, for how realistic a fan is willing to be about the deep, hardcore (unfortunate) politics surrounding this band. There are several litmus tests, but one is this: Do you think Jeff Foskett jumping from Brian's band to Mike's is a political move, and comes across (and maybe even was devised as) a big F-You to Melinda Wilson? If your answer is no, then I often fear that means you're either actively part of some weird campaign to paint Mike in a positive light, or you're unknowingly falling into that trap.

I don't think KDS came on this thread to rip Brian a new one. I think, as a *somewhat* newer/new-ish fan (meaing not decades and decades), he maybe doesn't see how defending Mike on average more than a typical fan, and then also saying some things that might reflect negatively on Brian, will often be met with a questioning of motives.

If we can be frank, I think KDS is (and I mean this as an absolutely neutral label, TRULY, because I can't think of a better descriptor) a fan of the fence-walking variety. There's no lack of a willingness to criticize both sides, but sometimes I sense of sake of false equivalency for the sake of it. There is indeed a fine line between being truly even-handed and fence-walking for the sake of it. I'm for criticizing only when it's warranted, but that doesn't mean "say one nice thing about this, and then one nice thing about that." So yeah, when it comes to hugely divisive stuff like C50, I have less patience, having studied that project as closely as one possibly could (and perhaps being privy to some things not published out there), for a "well, it was everybody's fault" attitude.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop for the moment.  :lol

Great post.

Which means it'll probably be ignored.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on January 30, 2018, 12:51:27 PM
Again, if you've been a fan and have read these boards and fan groups since the 90s, especially since Brian started touring in 1999, there have ALWAYS been calls for Brian to quit. *EVERY* tour.

Apologies for pulling out this one sentence, because the whole of your post was 100% correct in detailing the reactions to every tour the man has done. That's fact, and I saw it play out too. Nearly 20 years of it, as I said in an earlier post.

But I pulled this quote out to ask specifically *why* you think this is the case, beyond possibly fans getting bored with it and reacting like this. I'm also curious if you've noticed especially in recent years fans of a certain mindset making these calls versus other groups of fans, and I'll leave that to be interpreted however someone chooses to take it.


I don't think KDS came on this thread to rip Brian a new one. I think, as a *somewhat* newer/new-ish fan (meaing not decades and decades), he maybe doesn't see how defending Mike on average more than a typical fan, and then also saying some things that might reflect negatively on Brian, will often be met with a questioning of motives.

If we can be frank, I think KDS is (and I mean this as an absolutely neutral label, TRULY, because I can't think of a better descriptor) a fan of the fence-walking variety. There's no lack of a willingness to criticize both sides, but sometimes I sense of sake of false equivalency for the sake of it. There is indeed a fine line between being truly even-handed and fence-walking for the sake of it. I'm for criticizing only when it's warranted, but that doesn't mean "say one nice thing about this, and then one nice thing about that." So yeah, when it comes to hugely divisive stuff like C50, I have less patience, having studied that project as closely as one possibly could (and perhaps being privy to some things not published out there), for a "well, it was everybody's fault" attitude.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop for the moment.  :lol

Thanks to Tommy for pointing out this post, it sort of got lost in the shuffle. 

And you're 100% right, I didn't post here to rip Brian a new one.   I'm a fan after all. 

But, I don't practice any kind of false equivalency, and I definitely don't have any motivations.   True, I haven't been a fan for decades on end, so maybe I'll never fully comprehend the questioning of motivations that comes if one dares praise Mike or say anything that can be considering negative about Brian. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Kid Presentable on January 30, 2018, 01:55:11 PM
It's still really problematic that one of the mods of this board is an aggressive partisan.  Mod or get off the pot, I say.

Back closer to the original topic.  It is a weird debate because they are two different models, and both are relatively successful at their different model.  Why is one a loser and one a winner?

Brian is able to charge more for his tickets because of reasons such as playing fewer dates, bringing a somewhat higher quality (artistically/venue-wise) product, and, the thing that nobody has mentioned yet, one important reason why Brian is able to charge more money is THE BIOPIC.  

Looking at Brian's tour revenue versus Mike isn't a case of needing to debate it or say one guy "beat" the other. But it's ignoring the band's history (and denying simple fan/scholar curiosity) to not see it as an interesting statistic.

The tours run off of different "operations" models, but they both are in the most general ways more similar than different, in the last couple years anyway. It's a band criss-crossing the globe performing concerts in order to make money, pulled from the same core catalog of music (with some areas where they diverge of course).

This is all even more interesting in light of C50. It's more interesting in light of Al being full-time on the tour now. Brian for the first time has, in the last several years, and likely in reaction to Mike quitting the band in 2012, presented something truly closer to his "version" of a "Beach Boys" show. No, they are not exactly the same. They have slightly different setlist prompts (Mike does anything released by the BBs, Brian sticks mainly to stuff he's has written or co-written), but they're similar operations generally speaking.

That there have been intimations in interviews as well as passing references in lawsuit filings to Brian and Al (together and separately) being some sort of competition to Mike's BB tour only makes these statistics more interesting.

By most objective measures, "on paper" Mike should be easily pulling in more money touring than Brian, even when they're performing the same number of shows. I think Brian's name just trumps the BB in some circles in a way Mike would probably not admit, and also probably more prominently this all points to Mike *over-extending* the brand, stretching it WAY too thin. But it probably doesn't matter anymore. The time to take longer breaks between tours and build up demand was five, ten, 20, 30 years ago. Mike skipping 2018 and coming back in 2019 probably wouldn't make a HUGE difference at this point, this late in the game.

Mike "loses" plenty but I don't see this as a loss.... mostly because I don't think Mike's overall goals are the traditional ideas that most people (likely including you, me, BriMel) would have of "make as much money as possible via playing as few shows as possible".  And, this can probably be either a positive or a negative.... but I would venture to guess that he prefers other metrics (that aren't necessarily productive) to trumpet his success, like overall attendance per year, keeping the show on the road in sheer quantity of dates, etc.  To put it more succinctly, there can't really be a loser because they're running 2 different races.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on January 30, 2018, 08:24:50 PM
New "Greatest Hits Live" show announced for Brian and Al:
April 21 -- Ivins, UT -- Tuacahn Amphitheatre


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 30, 2018, 09:26:38 PM
Pretty sure Brian is going to announce a date in Windsor, Ontario soon.  I hope the show happens before I move 8 hours north of where I'm living right now.  I too have thoughts of Brian [and even his 'cousin'] hitting separate walls where they just can't 'do it' anymore...and maintaining a clear and true singing voice as you close in on 80 isn't a gimme for anybody let alone Brian Wilson who's put his vocal chords to a bit of a test along the smokey trail.  [that 'other' Brian Wilson isn't pitching in 'the Bigs' anymore...the body does have a say after all]

Brian will use assistance as he enters and leaves the stage because even at your peak those electrical cords and wires tend to be somewhat spaghetti-like and, on a darkened stage, can take a guy half his age down.  It's something I am always watchful for.  If Brian's eyesight is beginning to 'go'...and lord knows mine is...then the issue magnifies and with a bad back his balance is going to suffer at least a bit.  I gather though that Brian now enjoys the concept of 'doin' it live.  Once he gets out there and the music hits...he settles in and usually benefits from 'the ride'.

Ya maybe a Vegas stint would work.  Then again maybe it'd get old in a hurry.  The clock, as always, is ticking.  Whether Brian wants to spend even another "5 minutes" in the company of that preening peacock relative of his ... the one who, thanks to Scott T, manages to actually pay tribute to the songs...while misrepresenting their very core simultaneously...remains to be seen.  BUT...I doubt he will.  There's no coming back for Michael...not from THAT kind of sour.  I assumed that Foskett made the transition over to the B team because he was no longer deemed good enough to continue on with the BIG boys yet he IS still good enough to add to the Beached Boys version...after all...live auto-tone can extend one's shelf life... ... ...

Every time Brian heads out on tour I wonder if this will be the last one.  Sometimes he is SO GOOD I figure he's a shoe-in to accomplish every goal he wishes to list.  Sometimes I wonder if he'll make it to the current end date.  But he does make it.  He has a terrific support system with him...on stage and off.  Why he'd want to change that is beyond me...and him too I'd be willing to bet.  He does better these days with that which ails him than he used to by a ton.  But Brian isn't all better now.  He still faces real issues.  He does it better than most of us likely would be able to achieve.  That we've been able to bear witness to it, see him in varying degrees of action with generally excellent results is still a blessing...EVERY time.
-------------------------------------- 

I know this...when I go to see and hear Brian...I'm going to hear something he either had a real hand in...or something which moves his soul positively.  Can't ask for better than that.  [nor will you find it elsewhere.]  If you get another chance to catch Brian along the way...take it.  I can't read the expiry date but it's there.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 31, 2018, 12:13:35 AM
New "Greatest Hits Live" show announced for Brian and Al:
April 21 -- Ivins, UT -- Tuacahn Amphitheatre


Awesome


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on January 31, 2018, 12:16:48 AM
Pretty sure Brian is going to announce a date in Windsor, Ontario soon.  I hope the show happens before I move 8 hours north of where I'm living right now.  I too have thoughts of Brian [and even his 'cousin'] hitting separate walls where they just can't 'do it' anymore...and maintaining a clear and true singing voice as you close in on 80 isn't a gimme for anybody let alone Brian Wilson who's put his vocal chords to a bit of a test along the smokey trail.  [that 'other' Brian Wilson isn't pitching in 'the Bigs' anymore...the body does have a say after all]

Brian will use assistance as he enters and leaves the stage because even at your peak those electrical cords and wires tend to be somewhat spaghetti-like and, on a darkened stage, can take a guy half his age down.  It's something I am always watchful for.  If Brian's eyesight is beginning to 'go'...and lord knows mine is...then the issue magnifies and with a bad back his balance is going to suffer at least a bit.  I gather though that Brian now enjoys the concept of 'doin' it live.  Once he gets out there and the music hits...he settles in and usually benefits from 'the ride'.

Ya maybe a Vegas stint would work.  Then again maybe it'd get old in a hurry.  The clock, as always, is ticking.  Whether Brian wants to spend even another "5 minutes" in the company of that preening peacock relative of his ... the one who, thanks to Scott T, manages to actually pay tribute to the songs...while misrepresenting their very core simultaneously...remains to be seen.  BUT...I doubt he will.  There's no coming back for Michael...not from THAT kind of sour.  I assumed that Foskett made the transition over to the B team because he was no longer deemed good enough to continue on with the BIG boys yet he IS still good enough to add to the Beached Boys version...after all...live auto-tone can extend one's shelf life... ... ...

Every time Brian heads out on tour I wonder if this will be the last one.  Sometimes he is SO GOOD I figure he's a shoe-in to accomplish every goal he wishes to list.  Sometimes I wonder if he'll make it to the current end date.  But he does make it.  He has a terrific support system with him...on stage and off.  Why he'd want to change that is beyond me...and him too I'd be willing to bet.  He does better these days with that which ails him than he used to by a ton.  But Brian isn't all better now.  He still faces real issues.  He does it better than most of us likely would be able to achieve.  That we've been able to bear witness to it, see him in varying degrees of action with generally excellent results is still a blessing...EVERY time.
--------------------------------------

I know this...when I go to see and hear Brian...I'm going to hear something he either had a real hand in...or something which moves his soul positively.  Can't ask for better than that.  [nor will you find it elsewhere.]  If you get another chance to catch Brian along the way...take it.  I can't read the expiry date but it's there.

That was beautiful...well said.

Re:Vegas... nice idea in theory but I think he’d get bored very quickly


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pacific Ocean Blue on January 31, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
Since you won't let it die, and feel the need to keep pushing, which is amazing as I know you're busying acting as an impartial moderator......

Three or four pages ago, HJ mentioned the possibility of a reunited Beach Boys lineup doing a Vegas residency. 

I simply said it would be a good idea for Brian Wilson to take some of the strain off touring because he had back issues. 

And, you decided to take offense to that statement, and in the process waste 3-4 pages of Brian's 2018 Tour Thread. 

I'm still not sure how suggesting a Vegas residency might be beneficial to Brian is somehow a bad statement or has some sort of "endgame" as you put it.

THAT'S ALL!!!


Right. It's all about the music, too.




He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 

Uncle Walter was responding to your taking an issue with my post.   Other than the fact that I've acknowledged that "very overweight" is an exaggeration, what does that statement say that's not factual?   And how is pointing it out a bad thing, GF? 

Or do you want to continue to hijack this thread for four more pages? 

You can try to paint my questions as hijacking or whatever else you want to do to deflect from answering them. Including answering a direct question by trying to flip it back on me.

I'll ask again, direct question: Why is there a need to bring up Brian's health issues whenever his touring is being discussed? And that extends to those who do it regularly.


Bri is getting to a fair age and has also had health issues in the past so I can see why some people would bring up his health when a tour(especially the large ones he has done the last two years) is announced


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 31, 2018, 06:11:39 AM
New "Greatest Hits Live" show announced for Brian and Al:
April 21 -- Ivins, UT -- Tuacahn Amphitheatre


Thanks for the addition. Adding it to the top post...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 31, 2018, 06:23:45 AM
To be clear, for whatever it’s worth, when I brought up the topic of a “Vegas residency”, I wasn’t speaking in regards to anybody’s health or stamina, nor was I really even talking about the respective post-C50 individual touring configurations. I was speaking very specifically about an easy way to continue the *reunion* lineup going into the future.

Doing a truly substantive long-term Vegas residency is something that C50 (or call the reunion whatever you want after the actual 50th year) would have had sufficient demand for. Whether it would be on the exact same level as recent runs by Celine Dion and Britney Spears and whatnot, I can’t say, but it would have and could have been something more in that ballpark (as opposed to past years where Al or Mike or the original BBs have done a week of shows at Caesar’s, etc.). Why it would have worked for the full reunion lineup is that there would have been sufficient demand for it, and it would have eliminated many of the logistical/political/interpersonal issues at play during the reunion. It would have minimized the role of management and all of that, as the whole thing would be strictly laid out and would then work like clockwork; it would run itself. They just show up and do 80-90 minutes. It would have also allowed for plenty of gaps/breaks for Mike to go do corporate/private shows, would minimize travel (both in terms of wear and tear on the guys, and travel *costs* and all of the associated costs). It would have been very easily and quickly a license to print money and keep some prestige. Doing Vegas isn’t the cheesy thing it was decades and decades ago. Yes, it would have meant all of us would have to *go* to Vegas to see it, and it would have meant no more 43 to 61-song setlists. But it could have kept the reunion going, and then would have allowed for other ancillary things like recording another album (they could then truly record an album *while* touring; just book a Vegas studio), and also could have allowed for off-Vegas tour legs during or after.

I’m not living in the clouds; I realize why this would have not been easy to accomplish in terms of getting them all to sign up for it. But with good management back in 2012, it could have worked and could have been a bridge to temper things to allow the reunion lineup to be *the* band going forward.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 31, 2018, 06:33:30 AM
It's still really problematic that one of the mods of this board is an aggressive partisan.  Mod or get off the pot, I say.

Back closer to the original topic.  It is a weird debate because they are two different models, and both are relatively successful at their different model.  Why is one a loser and one a winner?

Brian is able to charge more for his tickets because of reasons such as playing fewer dates, bringing a somewhat higher quality (artistically/venue-wise) product, and, the thing that nobody has mentioned yet, one important reason why Brian is able to charge more money is THE BIOPIC.  

Looking at Brian's tour revenue versus Mike isn't a case of needing to debate it or say one guy "beat" the other. But it's ignoring the band's history (and denying simple fan/scholar curiosity) to not see it as an interesting statistic.

The tours run off of different "operations" models, but they both are in the most general ways more similar than different, in the last couple years anyway. It's a band criss-crossing the globe performing concerts in order to make money, pulled from the same core catalog of music (with some areas where they diverge of course).

This is all even more interesting in light of C50. It's more interesting in light of Al being full-time on the tour now. Brian for the first time has, in the last several years, and likely in reaction to Mike quitting the band in 2012, presented something truly closer to his "version" of a "Beach Boys" show. No, they are not exactly the same. They have slightly different setlist prompts (Mike does anything released by the BBs, Brian sticks mainly to stuff he's has written or co-written), but they're similar operations generally speaking.

That there have been intimations in interviews as well as passing references in lawsuit filings to Brian and Al (together and separately) being some sort of competition to Mike's BB tour only makes these statistics more interesting.

By most objective measures, "on paper" Mike should be easily pulling in more money touring than Brian, even when they're performing the same number of shows. I think Brian's name just trumps the BB in some circles in a way Mike would probably not admit, and also probably more prominently this all points to Mike *over-extending* the brand, stretching it WAY too thin. But it probably doesn't matter anymore. The time to take longer breaks between tours and build up demand was five, ten, 20, 30 years ago. Mike skipping 2018 and coming back in 2019 probably wouldn't make a HUGE difference at this point, this late in the game.

Mike "loses" plenty but I don't see this as a loss.... mostly because I don't think Mike's overall goals are the traditional ideas that most people (likely including you, me, BriMel) would have of "make as much money as possible via playing as few shows as possible".  And, this can probably be either a positive or a negative.... but I would venture to guess that he prefers other metrics (that aren't necessarily productive) to trumpet his success, like overall attendance per year, keeping the show on the road in sheer quantity of dates, etc.  To put it more succinctly, there can't really be a loser because they're running 2 different races.

Mike indeed isn't coming at it from precisely the same angle as Brian might, or other artists. But Mike is also a business guy, a numbers guy. His company runs his tour, and he famously runs a lean, cheap operation by doing things like renting gear in each city, etc.

I think Mike *would* charge more for tickets, in the Brian price range, if he *could.* While I do think he likes certain things about a larger volume of shows in smaller markets/venues (the adulation, maybe the groupies, whatever), I think the reason he plays the size and type of venues/markets that he does is because that's what his market value gets him. By touring so incessantly every year, all year, he has gone from stadiums (70s) to arenas (80s) to sheds (90s) to mostly theaters, casinos, fairs, festivals, free shows, etc. (present day). These are of course generalizations; the BBs played casinos back in the 80s, did fairs as well (although it was usually larger fairs as opposed to things like "Rib Cook-Offs", etc.). But Mike is playing smaller venues in 2017/18 than he did in the 90s. Mike stripping it down to only *two* actual BBs in the band has also contributed to the devaluation of the trademark and brand as well.

Yes, it's clear Mike *love* to tell people he does 175 shows per year. You can see all the way back in his epic 1988 Rock Hall speech that he places an odd emphasis on how many gigs a band does.

But as much as Mike said even *during* 2012, even during the period of time where things seemed pretty amicable, that he didn't like only doing mostly larger venues and larger markets, I think most of that had more to do with having to be with Brian and to deal with Melinda.

In other words, if a promoter came to Mike right now and offered him double his typically yearly take to exclusively only do 30 stadium shows, would he take the offer? We're talking for the Mike/Bruce show. I'd say, while he would have misgivings, I think he *would* take that offer. He'd take the offer, and then spend the rest of his time doing "California Beach Band" dates.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 31, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
Going by many comments he has made on the issue, Mike seems to place a lot of emphasis on the workingman's, roll-up-your-sleeves hard work ethic regarding the number of shows he plays each year. Agree or not with that ethic, it seems to be a point of pride and something to boast about that Mike considers himself doing the heavy lifting in the form of playing all of these shows, or as some of us call it, touring incessantly. He also mentions how much money he brings in to BRI by doing so, again hinting at that blue-collar heavy lifting ethos to provide for BRI or something. It's a little ironic considering this was the same Mike who in 2012 cited not wanting to risk overexposure by continuing more C50 shows, yet he regularly mentions how many shows he continues to play, a number which a lot would consider above the norm if not too much to where it does risk overexposure going year in and year out to the same markets.

Someone earlier mentioned "competition" between bands.

Consider back in 2005 some of the language in the lawsuit Mike filed specifically mentions Brian's band and their touring as a competitor or as his competition, to the point of that activity harming Mike's brand license.

So the competition aspect isn't something the fans dreamed up, it was how Mike himself characterized the situation in a legal document in 2005 that is on the record. I doubt he's changed his feelings on that as of 2018.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 31, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
"Competition" is also why Al Jardine was run off the touring circuit in 1999.

How much Mike has ever seen Al's or Brian's bands (or Al and Brian together) as a true financial threat, and/or a true critical/artistic threat, is obviously open for debate. Obviously, various legal documents and maneuvers have cited potential financial threat, and the 1999-ish BRI filings concerning Al cited "image" issues concerning setlist selection.

Certainly a lot of that 1999 BRI/Al lawsuit stuff was more just trying to find stuff to use against Al as opposed to Al being an actual existential threat to Mike's licensed band (as if Al and Owen Elliott and Daryl Dragon were ruining the "Beach Boys" name by playing "Lookin' at Tomorrow", or confusing people because they thought *that* was the Beach Boys, or that they were playing enough gigs to even make a dent in Mike's operation).

But as I mentioned, 2017 *may* be the first year with some level of evidence/statistics that Brian's uptick in touring revenue coincided with a downtick for Mike. Has Brian really been taking business away from Mike either directly or indirectly? I don't know, but if Mike Love was ever inclined to believe that was possible, then those 2017 status would then potentially be alarming/upsetting to some degree.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 31, 2018, 11:56:35 AM
"Competition" is also why Al Jardine was run off the touring circuit in 1999.

How much Mike has ever seen Al's or Brian's bands (or Al and Brian together) as a true financial threat, and/or a true critical/artistic threat, is obviously open for debate. Obviously, various legal documents and maneuvers have cited potential financial threat, and the 1999-ish BRI filings concerning Al cited "image" issues concerning setlist selection.

Certainly a lot of that 1999 BRI/Al lawsuit stuff was more just trying to find stuff to use against Al as opposed to Al being an actual existential threat to Mike's licensed band (as if Al and Owen Elliott and Daryl Dragon were ruining the "Beach Boys" name by playing "Lookin' at Tomorrow", or confusing people because they thought *that* was the Beach Boys, or that they were playing enough gigs to even make a dent in Mike's operation).

But as I mentioned, 2017 *may* be the first year with some level of evidence/statistics that Brian's uptick in touring revenue coincided with a downtick for Mike. Has Brian really been taking business away from Mike either directly or indirectly? I don't know, but if Mike Love was ever inclined to believe that was possible, then those 2017 status would then potentially be alarming/upsetting to some degree.

The lawsuit Mike filed back in 2005 - when the Smile tour was the tour of note coming after the Pet Sounds Live tour, both of which did very well - pretty clearly names Brian's touring and promotions around that touring as competition and as a threat to Mike's "brand" and success thereof, so I don't see anything open for debate.

Mike's lawsuit clearly spelled it out. It was a threat, and it was put into a court document listing it as a threat to the finances of Mike's "Beach Boys" tours, enough to hinge a lawsuit on that notion. Again I don't see what there is to debate on that point, just read the language of that suit. And again, I doubt the opinion has changed much since that filing in 2005.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on January 31, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
"Competition" is also why Al Jardine was run off the touring circuit in 1999.

How much Mike has ever seen Al's or Brian's bands (or Al and Brian together) as a true financial threat, and/or a true critical/artistic threat, is obviously open for debate. Obviously, various legal documents and maneuvers have cited potential financial threat, and the 1999-ish BRI filings concerning Al cited "image" issues concerning setlist selection.

Certainly a lot of that 1999 BRI/Al lawsuit stuff was more just trying to find stuff to use against Al as opposed to Al being an actual existential threat to Mike's licensed band (as if Al and Owen Elliott and Daryl Dragon were ruining the "Beach Boys" name by playing "Lookin' at Tomorrow", or confusing people because they thought *that* was the Beach Boys, or that they were playing enough gigs to even make a dent in Mike's operation).

But as I mentioned, 2017 *may* be the first year with some level of evidence/statistics that Brian's uptick in touring revenue coincided with a downtick for Mike. Has Brian really been taking business away from Mike either directly or indirectly? I don't know, but if Mike Love was ever inclined to believe that was possible, then those 2017 status would then potentially be alarming/upsetting to some degree.

The lawsuit Mike filed back in 2005 - when the Smile tour was the tour of note coming after the Pet Sounds Live tour, both of which did very well - pretty clearly names Brian's touring and promotions around that touring as competition and as a threat to Mike's "brand" and success thereof, so I don't see anything open for debate.

Mike's lawsuit clearly spelled it out. It was a threat, and it was put into a court document listing it as a threat to the finances of Mike's "Beach Boys" tours, enough to hinge a lawsuit on that notion. Again I don't see what there is to debate on that point, just read the language of that suit. And again, I doubt the opinion has changed much since that filing in 2005.

Of course yes, that's it's in the documents and stated as a threat is not open for debate, obviously. The only question is whether Mike actually feels Brian (or Al, or related issues) is truly a financial threat, or instead if various lawsuits were just an ego/vindictive thing and the financial-related threat being the stated reasoning for a lawsuit was just a means to an end.

For instance, I don't believe for a second that *anybody* actually believed, in relation to that 2005 lawsuit, that the freebie giveaway CD from England was *actually* confusing anyone in any substantial way. Instead, and this is only *my opinion*, I think Mike was in a score-settling, "set the lawyers loose" mood, and then the legal team had to find *potentially actionable* things. This obviously went overboard to the extreme in that lawsuit to the point that the courts had to admonish legal counsel for more or less fabricated "evidence" that someone was confused by the CD by using a friend to buy the CD off eBay and then claim he was "confused."

Kind of like how, again in my opinion, "playing vital smaller markets" had precisely *zero* to do with why Mike ended the reunion, yet that was offered as one of the reasons.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on January 31, 2018, 12:42:45 PM
Lee, just announced:

https://yqgrocks.com/beach-boys-legend-brian-wilson-coming-to-windsor/

BEACH BOYS LEGEND BRIAN WILSON COMING TO WINDSOR
By YQGrocks
January 31, 2018

One of popular music’s most deeply revered figures, the legendary singer-songwriter Brian Wilson of Beach Boys fame, performs at The Colosseum on Friday, May 4 as part of his 2018 Pet Sounds – The Final Performances tour with guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin in tow.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
Speaking of a Vegas residency, there was this printed in 2016:

http://lasvegassun.com/vegasdeluxe/2016/mar/23/the-righteous-brothers-reborn-bill-medley-emotiona/ (http://lasvegassun.com/vegasdeluxe/2016/mar/23/the-righteous-brothers-reborn-bill-medley-emotiona/)

From a March interview Robin Leach did with Bill Medley:

RL: Youngsters have revitalized the entertainment scene in Las Vegas. First Britney Spears, then Mariah Carey, and now Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull. They’ve turned it back into the entertainment mecca.

BM: I’m thrilled about it. I was talking with Mike Love of The Beach Boys, and they’re considering doing a residency. I know Lionel Richie is starting his soon at Planet Hollywood. It’s exciting. The Cirque du Soleil shows are unbelievable, but I think people go to Las Vegas and also want to get something that’s entertainment — singers.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23641.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23641.0.html)

I forgot how hilarious some of the reactions were.  ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 02, 2018, 07:37:24 AM
I remember Mike all of a sudden pondering a Las Vegas residency (and I'm assuming he meant more than a week or two, which the BBs have done many times over the years going back to 1980 at least) seemed to fly pretty directly in the face of his 2012 LA Times letter stressing how he simply *must* continue to tour all of those "vital, smaller markets."

I also think, obviously, that his show would not garner the type of residency offers than the reunion lineup would have.

I also think it's at least *slightly possible* that BRI would reassess its licensing arrangement for the name if Mike went to a predominantly if not fully "Vegas Residency" mode for touring.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 07:40:29 AM
"Competition" is also why Al Jardine was run off the touring circuit in 1999.

How much Mike has ever seen Al's or Brian's bands (or Al and Brian together) as a true financial threat, and/or a true critical/artistic threat, is obviously open for debate. Obviously, various legal documents and maneuvers have cited potential financial threat, and the 1999-ish BRI filings concerning Al cited "image" issues concerning setlist selection.

Certainly a lot of that 1999 BRI/Al lawsuit stuff was more just trying to find stuff to use against Al as opposed to Al being an actual existential threat to Mike's licensed band (as if Al and Owen Elliott and Daryl Dragon were ruining the "Beach Boys" name by playing "Lookin' at Tomorrow", or confusing people because they thought *that* was the Beach Boys, or that they were playing enough gigs to even make a dent in Mike's operation).

But as I mentioned, 2017 *may* be the first year with some level of evidence/statistics that Brian's uptick in touring revenue coincided with a downtick for Mike. Has Brian really been taking business away from Mike either directly or indirectly? I don't know, but if Mike Love was ever inclined to believe that was possible, then those 2017 status would then potentially be alarming/upsetting to some degree.

The lawsuit Mike filed back in 2005 - when the Smile tour was the tour of note coming after the Pet Sounds Live tour, both of which did very well - pretty clearly names Brian's touring and promotions around that touring as competition and as a threat to Mike's "brand" and success thereof, so I don't see anything open for debate.

Mike's lawsuit clearly spelled it out. It was a threat, and it was put into a court document listing it as a threat to the finances of Mike's "Beach Boys" tours, enough to hinge a lawsuit on that notion. Again I don't see what there is to debate on that point, just read the language of that suit. And again, I doubt the opinion has changed much since that filing in 2005.

Of course yes, that's it's in the documents and stated as a threat is not open for debate, obviously. The only question is whether Mike actually feels Brian (or Al, or related issues) is truly a financial threat, or instead if various lawsuits were just an ego/vindictive thing and the financial-related threat being the stated reasoning for a lawsuit was just a means to an end.

For instance, I don't believe for a second that *anybody* actually believed, in relation to that 2005 lawsuit, that the freebie giveaway CD from England was *actually* confusing anyone in any substantial way. Instead, and this is only *my opinion*, I think Mike was in a score-settling, "set the lawyers loose" mood, and then the legal team had to find *potentially actionable* things. This obviously went overboard to the extreme in that lawsuit to the point that the courts had to admonish legal counsel for more or less fabricated "evidence" that someone was confused by the CD by using a friend to buy the CD off eBay and then claim he was "confused."

Kind of like how, again in my opinion, "playing vital smaller markets" had precisely *zero* to do with why Mike ended the reunion, yet that was offered as one of the reasons.

I think - especially in the years from 1999 up to the lawsuit - that Brian's touring and band were considered as a threat financially by Mike.

This is purely subjective, and maybe some who attended both Brian's and Mike's shows from this specific era prior to the 2005 lawsuit can back this up too, but Brian's band and live shows as early as that first tour I was fortunate enough to see in 1999 was simply blowing Mike's stage act and tour out of the water. It was not only a bigger event for fans, but the music sounded better when you saw Brian and that amazing band perform quite a few of the same songs Mike was plowing through on stage.

The original PS Live tour was also an event Mike couldn't match.

The Smile live tour upped the bar almost impossibly high. When you have some of the most legendary musicians praising the tour and the band as they did the Smile shows, that would naturally put that bar up as high as it could go.

So Mike sues Brian in 2005 and suggests Brian's tours and promotions are direct competition, uses a bogus UK giveaway CD as "Exhibit A", and in the lawsuit proceeds to disparage not only Brian and the tours/shows themselves, but also Al Jardine. Coincidence?

Like I said, I doubt those opinions on "competition" have changed much if at all in 13 years.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 07:45:49 AM
I remember Mike all of a sudden pondering a Las Vegas residency (and I'm assuming he meant more than a week or two, which the BBs have done many times over the years going back to 1980 at least) seemed to fly pretty directly in the face of his 2012 LA Times letter stressing how he simply *must* continue to tour all of those "vital, smaller markets."

I also think, obviously, that his show would not garner the type of residency offers than the reunion lineup would have.

I also think it's at least *slightly possible* that BRI would reassess its licensing arrangement for the name if Mike went to a predominantly if not fully "Vegas Residency" mode for touring.

Or it could have been run through the "what if?" wringer and determined it might not be as much of a consistent draw for a Vegas audience to regularly fill the room to see Mike. There would be the notion that some comments in that original thread suggested, that after the initial interest in the show, Mike may have been relegated to the side lounge rooms or the pool cabana area if the audiences began to dwindle.


And I think you're right about such a residency affecting the licensing, since the license was to tour, not to set up camp in Vegas.

I also wonder what ever happened with all the Vegas style tie-ins they had which included Beach Boys slot machines and things like that?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 08:58:00 AM
I looked for a Mike and Bruce 2018 tour thread to post this in, but it seems there isn't one. So...here it is:

"The Beach Boys Are Headlining Chandler's Ostrich Festival"

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/beach-boys-chandler-ostrich-festival-10077019 (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/beach-boys-chandler-ostrich-festival-10077019)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 09:06:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bcEhHDE.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on February 02, 2018, 09:09:15 AM
 :lol

Suddenly that bowling alley car park is high-brow!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on February 02, 2018, 09:10:22 AM
“Vital” smaller markets... ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 02, 2018, 09:11:27 AM
In 1999, most of Mike's ire seemed to be channeled (though technically from/through BRI) to Al Jardine and his band.

Even as Brian started touring in 1999, I doubt he anticipated Brian then taking up touring as a full time or semi-full time thing.

In 1999, it was Al and the reviews of his shows that, in my opinion, were freaking Mike out the most. To be clear, I don't think Mike actually thought anybody was confusing "Beach Boys Family & Friends" with Daryl Dragon and three lead female singers as "THE Beach Boys." But Al was ramping up a fair amount of tour dates in 1999 (or at least trying to), and the show was getting excellent reviews. I don't think many could argue that Al's show blew away Mike's in 1999.

Once Al was off the touring market by the end of 1999 (note that his only particularly active year of touring was 1999), then I think Brian remained the main and only "competition", and I think it was more a critical competition than a financial one.

It's interesting too in weeding through that 2005 lawsuit, Mike probably did have a *very brief* "sh**ing his pants" moment around the end of 2006 into 2007. Note that one of the accusations in Mike's lawsuit is that Brian threatened to move to pull Mike's license and go out on tour *with Al* as "The Beach Boys." I doubt this was a serious threat, but I do think that's probably part of why Al at end of 2006 and into early 2007 popped up for some shows with Brian. A bit of a political warning/salvo. It amounted to little in the end, because I think Al wasn't doing it for money (with rampant reports/rumors that he literally did it for no pay) and was trying to reconnect and get back into the game, and I think the politics of BRI were still thawing between Al and Brian. That was a case of a bit "too soon." I think 2012 really truly got Brian and Al back together in the right way, which is why he's been on board since.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 02, 2018, 09:20:06 AM
Maybe Mike will promote his Ostrich Festival gig on this show: 

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14333065_1123683261043847_4977294118532266466_n.jpg?oh=62e59a4adb84cf1ec1b8f12bf684c7a5&oe=5AD96C5F)

Oh wait, that's right, that show was canceled and the host fired in disgrace.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 02, 2018, 09:21:33 AM
But back to Brian's current tour schedule, I'm still thinking this will be a lighter year. Assuming he plans on keeping Al on board, Al's own club tour schedule seems to indicate Brian isn't going to be touring during that same time.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Zesterz on February 02, 2018, 10:22:16 AM
With any luck, Brian might be using this time to be recording a new album. That way, he can add a new song or two to the act to promote it and it could be a win - win


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on February 02, 2018, 11:56:07 AM
Maybe Mike will promote his Ostrich Festival gig on this show: 

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14333065_1123683261043847_4977294118532266466_n.jpg?oh=62e59a4adb84cf1ec1b8f12bf684c7a5&oe=5AD96C5F)

Oh wait, that's right, that show was canceled and the host fired in disgrace.
we’ll have fun,fun, fun until they take O’Rielly’s show away....


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 02, 2018, 12:50:14 PM
That may be the funniest thing I've seen here in a very long time


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 02, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
On a day when it's reported Mike has a show booked at an ostrich festival, that's really saying something.  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 02, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
I actually meant the ostrich photo... I forgot to hit post lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Hickory Violet Part IV on February 04, 2018, 11:30:29 PM
This Ostrich Festival sounds fascinating.

A group of wrinkly,  dead eyed dinosaurs performing for another group of wrinkly dead eyed dinosaurs.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Rocker on February 09, 2018, 02:53:53 PM
Brian's facebook account posted this link:


Fun, Fun, Fun on Pet Sounds’ 50th Anniversary Tour

Brian Wilson, the visionary behind The Beach Boys, is rolling his "Pet Sounds" 50th Anniversary Tour forward into 2018 with its final performances, and along for every stop of the journey is longtime production manager/FOH engineer Clint Boire.

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/live/fun-fun-fun-on-pet-sounds-50th-anniversary-tour


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on February 11, 2018, 08:00:06 PM
“Vital” smaller markets... ::)

I know for a fact that folks in Turkey City, Pa. and Barkyville, Pa. are anxiously waiting for a M&B booking. C'mon guys. :p


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on February 12, 2018, 12:28:23 PM
Back to on-topic discussion -- a new Brian, Al and Blondie date has been announced:

May 5 -- Orillia, Ontario at the Casino Rama Resort


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 12, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
Back to on-topic discussion -- a new Brian, Al and Blondie date has been announced:

May 5 -- Orillia, Ontario at the Casino Rama Resort

Good deal!

No Texas dates as of yet...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 16, 2018, 08:58:21 AM
The May 15 SC show has been rescheduled to July 25, apparently due to the venue having a scheduling issue.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 16, 2018, 12:04:08 PM
A July 25 "Greatest Hits" show has been added to the schedule. Top post updated.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: southbay on February 19, 2018, 07:38:54 PM
During Al’s show Saturday in San Luis he said that he and Brian would be touring Europe this summer and then be back doing shows in the states in the Fall and holidays


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on February 21, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
Show added for 7/20 in RI. Top post updated.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on March 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Added new PS dates for 5/15 and 7/24 to the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on March 06, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Thanks Jude!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on March 06, 2018, 01:19:17 PM
Awesome


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: thatjacob on March 06, 2018, 01:38:45 PM
During Al’s show Saturday in San Luis he said that he and Brian would be touring Europe this summer and then be back doing shows in the states in the Fall and holidays
Fingers crossed for a holiday show in Georgia. I'm kind of exhausted from BBs related concerts at the moment, but I imagine I'd be ready to catch one again by December.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on March 16, 2018, 12:37:57 PM
Added a new UK date to the top post. August 9th at "Fairport's Cropredy Convention." It'll be a "Pet Sounds" gig.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Zesterz on March 16, 2018, 12:49:36 PM
Hoping for other UK shows in late July or early August ; looks possible


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on March 23, 2018, 03:58:35 AM
Another festival gig has been added to the UK schedule. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/victorious-festival-lineup-2018-brian-wilson-sleaford-mods-the-cribs-latest-tickets-a8267841.html


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on March 23, 2018, 06:16:23 AM
Another festival gig has been added to the UK schedule. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/victorious-festival-lineup-2018-brian-wilson-sleaford-mods-the-cribs-latest-tickets-a8267841.html

I've added this to the top post. I went to the festival's website, and it sounds like this will be a "Greatest Hits Live" show.

It kind of seems like Brian is just offering promoters either show and they're picking one (is the PS show more expensive?), so he's mixing up the two show types throughout the year apparently.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Wrightfan on March 26, 2018, 07:18:10 AM
Brian is coming to Upac on July 22nd. They just posted it on Facebook. Pre-sale starts tomorrow. I think I will make this one  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on March 26, 2018, 07:23:34 AM
Brian is coming to Upac on July 22nd. They just posted it on Facebook. Pre-sale starts tomorrow. I think I will make this one  :lol

Thanks for the heads up. I've added it to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on April 02, 2018, 07:00:45 AM
Al just posted a Christmas Album date at the Bergen PAC in December so we may be getting that Christmas tour after all

Update: Full Tour Info

http://www.brianwilson.com/holiday-tour/


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 02, 2018, 07:37:54 AM
Very interesting. Three different tour formats in one year. Can't say this band isn't versatile. Will be very interesting to hear the deeper XMas cuts. Will also be interesting to hear Matt and Al Jardine on the "What I Really Want for Christmas" material.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 02, 2018, 07:40:58 AM
Very interesting. Three different tour formats in one year. Can't say this band isn't versatile. Will be very interesting to hear the deeper XMas cuts. Will also be interesting to hear Matt and Al Jardine on the "What I Really Want for Christmas" material.

There are some gaps, so I'm hoping more shows get added.   The Beach Boys Christmas album was the first album I ever got from them, so I'd love to hear it live. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 02, 2018, 07:43:30 AM
My guess is it will be the BB Christmas album, and probably only a few songs from Brian's "What I Really Want for Christmas." Would love to hear Matt do the falsettos on that 2005 stuff, though. Hopefully they'll do "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen", which is arguably the most impressive arrangement on the album.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 02, 2018, 07:49:59 AM
My guess is it will be the BB Christmas album, and probably only a few songs from Brian's "What I Really Want for Christmas." Would love to hear Matt do the falsettos on that 2005 stuff, though. Hopefully they'll do "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen", which is arguably the most impressive arrangement on the album.

The website says the BB Christmas album in it's entirely. 

For WIRWFC, God Rest is easily my favorite cover.   I'm hoping for that, and the originals.   I wonder what arrangement of Man With All the Toys will be used. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 02, 2018, 07:54:25 AM
Yes, the press release mentions the full BB Christmas album. That's why I'm guessing that, given the typical length and format of a Brian setlist, they probably won't do a ton of solo XMas songs. We'll probably get a first set much like the first set found in PS shows, with the Brian solo Xmas tracks (and/or other Xmas-themed tracks) either teased in the opening set, or tacked on to the second set.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 02, 2018, 07:55:46 AM
I've updated the top post with the new tour dates.

I would imagine they'll pack that November-December timeframe as full as they can; there are a few viable gaps still in there. When they go to the trouble of rehearsing a full album, they'll probably want to get as much bang for their buck as possible.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 02, 2018, 08:13:20 AM
Yes, the press release mentions the full BB Christmas album. That's why I'm guessing that, given the typical length and format of a Brian setlist, they probably won't do a ton of solo XMas songs. We'll probably get a first set much like the first set found in PS shows, with the Brian solo Xmas tracks (and/or other Xmas-themed tracks) either teased in the opening set, or tacked on to the second set.

I'm not expecting a lot from the 2005 album.   Christmasey is a very wordy song that might be difficult for Brian to do on a nightly basis.   

But, either way, he'll finally get to play piano on Santa Claus is Coming to Town. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: the captain on April 02, 2018, 08:38:18 AM
Another Minneapolis kickoff? Al did the same in January and I believe the BWPS tour’s US leg also started here.

I’m conflicted about this. I’m not a fan of Christmas music in general or that album in particular. But it’s not without its moments—We Three Kings could be cool!—and of course you never know when it’ll be the last opportunity to see Brian.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on April 02, 2018, 08:46:18 AM
So what is Blondie going to do for the Christmas album shows? Sing a rewrite of Feel Flows about Santa Claus or something ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on April 02, 2018, 09:19:04 AM
I hope they bring that show to Atlanta and add "Winter Symphony" and "Morning Christmas" to the setlist!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Til...I...@died on April 02, 2018, 10:11:21 AM
So what is Blondie going to do for the Christmas album shows? Sing a rewrite of Feel Flows about Santa Claus or something ;D
SAIL ON SAIL ON SANTA


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 02, 2018, 11:43:20 AM
VERY cool! Hoping for more dates to be added indeed!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: thatjacob on April 02, 2018, 04:08:47 PM
I hope they bring that show to Atlanta and add "Winter Symphony" and "Morning Christmas" to the setlist!
I hope so too.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: wilsonart1 on April 02, 2018, 04:53:09 PM
MPLS. Winter starts right after the Thanksgiving Turkey is almost cold.  Safe place to start. People light up their Christmas lights prior to this show.  A Child Of Winter would be my highlight to hear.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on April 02, 2018, 06:06:42 PM
Anyone know who is eligible for the presales?  The ticketmaster website says that presales for the NY and New Jersey shows start tomorrow but doesn’t indicate who is eligible for presales. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 02, 2018, 06:57:27 PM
Presale codes are on Brian Wilson's website.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Matt Etherton on April 02, 2018, 07:45:03 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 02, 2018, 08:09:37 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

If you are a fan of The Beach Boys beyond the basic most level, it is worth your money to at least see Brian Wilson once...period. Regardless of what he is doing.

I also think (if you aren't trolling) that your terminology is a bit misconfigured. I have posted a great many criticism of Brian's voice on this forum and have caught plenty of unnecessary sh*t for it. However, he is never off key or out of tune. His voice is strained and tired, but still very musically accurate.

I also think most fans of the Beach Boys are used to seeing multiple people tackle "generic" leads. For example, I'm pretty sure every official Beach Boy (sans Bruce & David) have sang the lead on "Help Me Rhonda". So I'm not sure why that is a logical point of reason in your eyes on a Beach Boys forum. Now, if we were in an alternate universe where Led Zeppelin reunited and John Paul Jones took all of Robert Plant's leads...I could see your point.  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 02, 2018, 11:25:00 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.
I have been disappointed since the start of Brian's solo touring days that his shows mostly ignore his solo material, in favor of Beach Boys hits and album tracks (mostly) from the 60's. IMO, his voice is better suited these days to the songs on his solo albums. But of course, there's not a large audience for that material, so he's gotta play the old hits night after night. It's true that Brian and his band play a fair amount of deep tracks - they just don't happen to be from Brian's solo albums.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 03, 2018, 06:25:13 AM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

I think you're missing the point of what a Brian Wilson concert is. I don't mean in some vague "spiritual/emotional" way. I mean, you need to literally look at his setlists and you'll see what his prompt/ethos is for molding his shows.

That is, Brian's concerts have *always* been a showcase of his writing, his music. With a few exceptions, Brian's setlists feature songs he wrote or co-wrote. That's a very different prompt than Mike's shows, which feature simply songs the Beach Boys released at some point or another. So Mike does a bunch of songs he didn't have a hand in writing (e.g. "Little Deuce Coupe", "Surfer Girl", "Shut Down", "Don't Worry Baby", etc.), whereas Brian skips most of the well-known BB songs he wasn't involved with (e.g. "Kokomo", "Still Cruisin'", "Getcha Back", etc.).

But seriously, Brian's been touring solo for almost 20 years and you're still wondering why he sings "California Girls" and "Fun Fun Fun" at his concerts?

I'd also say, if you prefer hearing the original lead vocalist on songs, you'd surely have a problem with Mike's sidemen singing the lead for half of his shows, right? It makes immensely more sense to me to hear Al sing "Little Deuce Coupe" or Brian sing "Do It Again" than it does to pay to hear Scott Totten sing "Ballad of Ole Betsy", etc.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Gettin Hungry on April 03, 2018, 08:43:33 AM
I was really hopeful for the Pet Sounds tour coming back to my area, since I missed it last time. Instead we're getting the Holiday Show. On the one hand, I've never considered going to a Christmas music concert, but on the other hand, the Beach Boys Christmas Album is maybe my favorite for the season. And I've never seen Brian Wilson live. Think he'll play non-Christmas tunes as part of the show?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 03, 2018, 08:49:03 AM
I was really hopeful for the Pet Sounds tour coming back to my area, since I missed it last time. Instead we're getting the Holiday Show. On the one hand, I've never considered going to a Christmas music concert, but on the other hand, the Beach Boys Christmas Album is maybe my favorite for the season. And I've never seen Brian Wilson live. Think he'll play non-Christmas tunes as part of the show?

I'm sure he'll do some non Christmas songs.   He typically plays 33-37 songs.   So, that's likely the 12 from the BB Christmas album, plus, say 3-4 from his solo Christmas album, which would leave plenty of room on the setlist for non holiday hits. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 03, 2018, 11:45:43 AM
I suspect they'll open with about 4-5 solo Christmas songs, then burn through a medley of about 4-5 early Beach Boy tunes, then the standard set from Blondie...intermission, Christmas Album replaces Pet Sounds, typical encores follow.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on April 03, 2018, 02:26:11 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

Because it’s Brian Wilson. 

Because it’s Al Jardine. 

Because it’s Brian’s EXCELLENT band. 

Because it’s interesting arrangements of not just the hits but of deeper cuts. 

Because it’s Blondie Chaplin. 

Because it’s the man who wrote most of the songs, a man with more musical talent than oh, just about anybody, interpreting those songs with a preposterously talented group of musicians. 

Should I go on? :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: the captain on April 03, 2018, 02:40:00 PM

I also think (if you aren't trolling) that your terminology is a bit misconfigured. I have posted a great many criticism of Brian's voice on this forum and have caught plenty of unnecessary sh*t for it. However, he is never off key or out of tune. His voice is strained and tired, but still very musically accurate.


I would--and hence I will--quibble slightly with you on Brian's voice. I've heard him hit bum notes, especially in songs that have a range or even melody leaps that challenge his modern voice. (I'm thinking about how awful "Time to Get Alone" was in Glasgow 2004, at the Smile show, for one example. I've heard several others.) So I don't think it's fair to say he's never off key or out of tune. He also increasingly, WISELY, lets others handle those vocals he can't so easily handle.

That said, he is generally pretty good in those things. And I agree with your main point entirely.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Zesterz on April 03, 2018, 02:50:21 PM
Run, don't walk, to see Brian and his band while you can. And certainly, the current BB  line up are worth seeing/ hearing........... ; it will change, too , in time.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on April 03, 2018, 07:10:23 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

I suppose it is a matter of personal preference. If Peter Tork wrote, arranged, produced, and sang prominently on most of The Monkees hits with one of the greatest pop voices of all time, I'd probably rather see him than Micky Dolenz. Just as I'd rather go see a Pete Townshend concert or a Paul Simon concert than a Roger Daltry or Art Garfunkel concert. Personally I couldn't imagine why anyone would rather the opposite but, again, that's just my taste.

And while I'm not going to pursue it anymore than to say this, I think Mike Love fans leave themselves really open to critique when they draw analogies like this in order to make their point. Yes, being a Mike Love fan is perfectly fine but when it gets to the point when you are comparing Brian Wilson's role in The Beach Boys to Peter Tork's role in The Monkees, then I think it's time to rethink things a bit.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on April 03, 2018, 07:48:52 PM
I’d love to see Mike Love sing the hits.....but only as Mike Love.

My loss? Maybe. Just my personal choice.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 03, 2018, 08:24:37 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

Hey Matt, before you go much further with Brian being off key and out of tune, check out most of the you tube vids(live) of the luHvster trying to stay on key and in tune on his last disaster of an album Unleash The Love. And he does an excellent job of butchering the hits(live) as well unless you prefer the finger nails on a chalkboard nasal bleating that most anyone could do while holding your nose. There are reasons why he's labeled as the one in the band who had the worst voice. No problem with you being a Mike Love fan, but I'll take Brian's voice to the bank any day.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 03, 2018, 11:37:04 PM
I’d love to see Mike Love sing the hits.....but only as Mike Love.

My loss? Maybe. Just my personal choice.
I've never known him to be anyone but Mike Love. It's not like he goes out as Clem Love, or Cookie Love  :lol. His band, of course, is the Beach Boys - and if anyone has a problem with that, they should complain to the people who allow them to use that name year after year.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on April 04, 2018, 03:02:59 AM
Oh I don’t have a problem with it. But I do have a choice.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on April 04, 2018, 06:21:32 AM
I’d love to see Mike Love sing the hits.....but only as Mike Love.

My loss? Maybe. Just my personal choice.
I've never known him to be anyone but Mike Love. It's not like he goes out as Clem Love, or Cookie Love  :lol. His band, of course, is the Beach Boys - and if anyone has a problem with that, they should complain to the people who allow them to use that name year after year.

His band and himself are not the Beach Boys. Mike is a Beach Boy who happens to be in a band of musicians. The Beach Boys do not exist any more except on paper. Unfortunately Mike Love IS Mike Love however he'd have to change his underwear constantly if he had to go out under his own name.  ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 04, 2018, 06:55:55 AM
OSD is back! 8)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 04, 2018, 09:25:59 AM
And while I'm not going to pursue it anymore than to say this, I think Mike Love fans leave themselves really open to critique when they draw analogies like this in order to make their point. Yes, being a Mike Love fan is perfectly fine but when it gets to the point when you are comparing Brian Wilson's role in The Beach Boys to Peter Tork's role in The Monkees, then I think it's time to rethink things a bit.

This. Exactly, 100% on the money.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 04, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

Why? Similar to why fans for decades have paid to see a Burt Bacharach live concert, the majority of which did not have Dionne Warwick, BJ Thomas, Jackie DeShannon, or any of the other vocalists on stage with Burt singing all those hit songs he wrote, arranged, and produced.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on April 04, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
I personally don't understand why someone would pay to see Greatest Hits Live, when the lead singer of most hits  (Mike Love) is touring as The Beach Boys. Why would seeing Brian sing the same songs (off key/out of tune) be better? It's kinda like a tribute to Mike Love oddly enough, in my opinion. Same for the upcoming Christmas Tour: Mike sang lead on the hits. He's the original voice. It would be like me going to see Peter Tork perform Monkees hits, when Micky Dolenz is touring as The Monkees. I prefer the original vocalist!  Now, before you get mad that I'm a Mike Love fan, Brian on tour doing his Beach Boys lead vocal songs, album cuts, solo stuff, that would be cool. I like them both.

Why? Similar to why fans for decades have paid to see a Burt Bacharach live concert, the majority of which did not have Dionne Warwick, BJ Thomas, Jackie DeShannon, or any of the other vocalists on stage with Burt singing all those hit songs he wrote, arranged, and produced.

Perfectly said, Craig.  Hearing a great artist interpret his/her work is an honor and a joy.  Re: original poster:"A tribute to Mike Love?"  I'm not mad, just bewildered. Brian isn't singing "Pisces Brothers," he's performing his creations.  Your logic escapes me, Matt.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: the captain on April 04, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
Your logic escapes me, Matt.

The logic is pretty simple: speak nonsense likely to be seen as controversial and enjoy the attention of the inevitable responses.

I believe there’s a relevant saying. Something about trolls and the filling (or not) of their bellies.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 05, 2018, 05:14:10 AM
There is some truth that the name Brian Wilson isn't as big a draw as some other solo touring acts out there - Paul McCartney and Roger Waters come to mind. 

But, I have to add that I tend to wear a lot of band tee shirts, especially in the summer time.   And the one shirt that I wear that almost always draws a comment from somebody is my Brian Wilson Pet Sounds 2016 Tour tee. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 05, 2018, 06:15:45 AM
McCartney is on a pretty unique level compared to most 60s artists who are still going today. Beatles/McCartney is kind of its own unique thing.

But in terms of Brian, he had and has a whole bunch of background factors that the likes of Waters and McCartney don't. Namely, Brian is touring (largely) music that has NEVER been off the touring market. To cut to the point, Roger Waters tours probably wouldn't see *quite* as much interest if Pink Floyd had been doing 150-175 gigs per year, every year, since the 1960s. Same for McCartney. "Wings Over America" in 1976 or McCartney in 2018 would probably not be selling out stadiums if a band had been doing 175 gigs per year every year as "The Beatles."

None of this, though, really gets back to the recent point of contention which, I guess, was trying to imply that each Beach Boy should just divide up their respective lead vocals and only do their own vintage leads in concert. That makes no sense for about a dozen different reasons, and also ignores the legal and logistical setup of Mike actually using the BB name, not to mention having his background singers sing roughly half the show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: wilsonart1 on April 05, 2018, 08:15:22 AM
pre -sale codes..what are they?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 05, 2018, 12:00:34 PM
pre -sale codes..what are they?

They vary by venue and are listed at brianwilson.com/holiday-tour


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: wilsonart1 on April 05, 2018, 12:18:22 PM
sorry rubber, no code's are given . you get to pick venue than code is asked for.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 05, 2018, 01:40:41 PM
sorry rubber, no code's are given . you get to pick venue than code is asked for.

Pre-sale passwords are listed on that page ( http://www.brianwilson.com/holiday-tour/ ), but I presume only for shows where a presale password exists. I would imagine they will update the list if more passwords are made available.

Keep in mind as well that pre-sales don't always guarantee the best seats. The usually only set aside a certain block of seats (and not all of the best seats) for pre-sales so that shows don't sell out before the actual "onsale" date (and so that all the good seats aren't taken before the "onsale" date).

So, sometimes, you're better off jumping into the main sale, as that presumably opens up all of the available seats.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on April 05, 2018, 03:49:02 PM
Your logic escapes me, Matt.

The logic is pretty simple: speak nonsense likely to be seen as controversial and enjoy the attention of the inevitable responses.

I believe there’s a relevant saying. Something about trolls and the filling (or not) of their bellies.

Yes, trolls are tiresome.  I guess I should be used to dealing with nonsense at this point.  No need to go down the rabbit hole with them. Swimming in the sewage of lies, delusion and silly provocation is a waste for everyone.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Juice Brohnston on April 05, 2018, 04:50:37 PM
I’d love to see Mike Love sing the hits.....but only as Mike Love.

My loss? Maybe. Just my personal choice.
I've never known him to be anyone but Mike Love. It's not like he goes out as Clem Love, or Cookie Love  :lol. His band, of course, is the Beach Boys - and if anyone has a problem with that, they should complain to the people who allow them to use that name year after year.

His band and himself are not the Beach Boys. Mike is a Beach Boy who happens to be in a band of musicians. The Beach Boys do not exist any more except on paper. Unfortunately Mike Love IS Mike Love however he'd have to change his underwear constantly if he had to go out under his own name.  ::)

I'm shocked OSD spelled 'Mike Love'! I figured he had customized keyboards on all his devices prohibiting this!  ;)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 05, 2018, 05:07:15 PM
Its a Myke luhv thang! :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 06, 2018, 10:45:44 AM
Caveat emptor: Brian's MB shows an Italian show on November 11th. it's actually AUGUST 11th.

Now been corrected to show August 11th.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: BRI1035 on April 07, 2018, 05:06:34 PM
I got great seats for the 12/12 Hollywood, FL Christmas show.

The listing for that show has now been removed from Brian's website (though it is still on sale through Ticketmaster).

Should I be worried?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
That is unusual, but perhaps it is just a problem with Brian's site. You shouldn't be able to buy tickets still for a show that doesn't exist.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 09, 2018, 06:11:45 AM
I wouldn't worry too much; Brian's site has often been wonky as far as what dates are listed. As I've often told, going all the way back to 2004 at least they've omitted shows. They *never* listed the 2004 San Francisco "Smile" show as a tour date on the site, yet I most assuredly *did* go to the show (and I believe it sold out despite not even being listed on Brian's site!).

However, I'm sure behind the scenes Brian's camp has the booking of tour dates dialed in, and it's unlikely they would allow tickets to be sold to a show they had canceled. Selling tickets and then canceling a show is a big hassle and costs money for everybody involved.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 09, 2018, 09:19:01 AM
Added a new 12/5 Westbury, NY show to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 10, 2018, 11:32:52 AM
Added two more dates; an August 24 UK "Pet Sounds" date, and also a July 15 Canadian date for the "Rock the Shores" Festival. It's unclear on that one whether it's a "Greatest Hits" or "Pet Sounds" show. The festival's website doesn't list any specific show type/theme, which makes me think it might be a "regular" show. This is the only show listed on Brian's site that doesn't show whether it's a "Hits" or "PS" show (it may well be that they don't know yet).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lee Marshall on April 10, 2018, 11:57:40 AM
 :ahh  Just an alert that the strike at Caesar's Windsor has affected some shows already...those through to at least April 30, 2018.   :angry   Brian's is scheduled for Friday May 4.  Will the situation be resolved by then?    ???


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 11, 2018, 06:13:08 AM
Added an 8/16 Berlin "Pet Sounds" show to the top post schedule. I'm guessing they may well fill in more of August with additional European dates.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 13, 2018, 07:13:49 AM
Sorry to see Doncaster Racecourse on Saturday August 18th is also one of the UK tour venues.

I'm afraid I'm less than enthusiastic about all these outdoor events. Not the best setting for Pet Sounds.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 13, 2018, 07:16:11 AM
I noticed Brian updated Facebook with the Doncaster show, so that has been added to the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 13, 2018, 07:24:47 AM
Sorry to see Doncaster Racecourse on Saturday August 18th is also one of the UK tour venues.

I'm afraid I'm less than enthusiastic about all these outdoor events. Not the best setting for Pet Sounds.

I at first assumed this was just a case of using a sporting venue for a concert. But it does appear as though this will literally be a "Post-Horse Race" concert:

https://www.doncaster-racecourse.co.uk/whats-on/don-2018-sat-18th-august-music-live

I guess this is a 2018 British version of the BBs playing gigs after baseball games in the 80s.

I honestly have no idea what type of "typical" clientele a horse race in Doncaster, UK attracts, so it's hard to say how rowdy an audience might be or how many non-fans might be in attendance.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 13, 2018, 07:40:59 AM
I'm not really a race-goer but I would guess they'll get some fans (perhaps more that could be described as 'casual' rather than 'diehard') and quite a few who've heard some of the songs and are just rounding off a day's entertainment.

I'm sorry to write that I feel it devalues the music. Pet Sounds is suited to prestigious venues, like real theatres and concert halls.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on April 13, 2018, 07:53:14 AM
Sorry to see Doncaster Racecourse on Saturday August 18th is also one of the UK tour venues.

I'm afraid I'm less than enthusiastic about all these outdoor events. Not the best setting for Pet Sounds.

I at first assumed this was just a case of using a sporting venue for a concert. But it does appear as though this will literally be a "Post-Horse Race" concert:

https://www.doncaster-racecourse.co.uk/whats-on/don-2018-sat-18th-august-music-live

I guess this is a 2018 British version of the BBs playing gigs after baseball games in the 80s.

I honestly have no idea what type of "typical" clientele a horse race in Doncaster, UK attracts, so it's hard to say how rowdy an audience might be or how many non-fans might be in attendance.


Hopefully better than the clientele that races across Spot a Pots in the infield at Baltimore's Preakness.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on April 13, 2018, 08:23:30 AM
I presume that Doncaster show won't be a Pet Sounds performance? more greatest hits?

Listed as Greatest Hits on ticket page - https://www.eventim.co.uk/event/10737230/?affiliate=VM1


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 13, 2018, 08:48:26 AM
I presume that Doncaster show won't be a Pet Sounds performance? more greatest hits?

Listed as Greatest Hits on ticket page - https://www.eventim.co.uk/event/10737230/?affiliate=VM1

I think you're right. The ad/poster for the show on Brian's Facebook was in the green/yellow color/font of PS, so my brain assumed. The "Greatest Hits" format makes much more sense. I've updated the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: MaxL on April 13, 2018, 11:28:47 AM
I've seen M&B at racecourses a few times (York and Epsom) and I'd say it's definitely more their thing than Brian's (a higher chance of Hawaiian shirts and beach balls).

Regardless this is the closest to home I've seen a BBs-related concert (due to the cancelled arena tour of 2015) so I'll be there. I'm hoping it won't be a PS show, as mentioned it's not the best environment for it and after seeing the band do PS in 2016 and 2017 I'm pretty content and hope to hear something different.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 13, 2018, 02:07:08 PM
I've seen M&B at racecourses a few times (York and Epsom) and I'd say it's definitely more their thing than Brian's (a higher chance of Hawaiian shirts and beach balls).

Regardless this is the closest to home I've seen a BBs-related concert (due to the cancelled arena tour of 2015) so I'll be there. I'm hoping it won't be a PS show, as mentioned it's not the best environment for it and after seeing the band do PS in 2016 and 2017 I'm pretty content and hope to hear something different.

It's worth noting, though, that the "Greatest Hits" shows might bend up being shorter than the full PS shows. I'm not so sure if they're going to backfill the setlist with 13 songs to fully replace the PS songs. They'll probably do the classic three tracks from PS, but maybe not add another ten to replace the rest.

I think, Brian's lack of enthusiasm on recent PS tours notwithstanding, they're striking a decent balance in booking shows this year. Clearly, PS-themed shows still get bookings and demand, but they're also mixing it in with some other themed setlists.

I'm curious if they just offer both shows to promoters at two different costs.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 13, 2018, 07:15:48 PM
I doubt the price varies. The cost of show is identical. Honestly, I think anything labeled "Greatest Hits" is a greater draw with the general public.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on April 14, 2018, 12:15:19 PM
New Greatest Hits show date, with Al and Blondie:
Aug. 7 -- Tel Aviv, Israel -- Menora Mivtachim Arena

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/Summer-is-here-Brian-is-back-549813


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on April 15, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
I doubt the price varies. The cost of show is identical. Honestly, I think anything labeled "Greatest Hits" is a greater draw with the general public.
This is a good point. I would be pretty surprised if Brian was touring an M&B style hits show. I would have to guess that a Greatest Hits show is more like the setlists we've seen from Brian outside of the album-centric tours.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 16, 2018, 08:29:23 AM
I doubt the price varies. The cost of show is identical. Honestly, I think anything labeled "Greatest Hits" is a greater draw with the general public.
This is a good point. I would be pretty surprised if Brian was touring an M&B style hits show. I would have to guess that a Greatest Hits show is more like the setlists we've seen from Brian outside of the album-centric tours.

"Greatest Hits Live" I'm sure is a moniker that's meant solely to mean "not a Pet Sounds show" and is being used only because PS has been the norm for two years now.

But I think precise guarantees from promoters from show to show can vary, and it's possible PS shows cost more because it's more of a prestige event and tickets to the type of venues that typically book a PS show skew more expensive. All generalities to be sure.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on April 17, 2018, 06:00:31 AM
Westbury!! That's right in my backyard. Wish I knew before getting tickets for Staten Island. Might have to double dip here... or triple dip if I decide to go to Jersey also... we'll see.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 17, 2018, 06:21:32 AM
Another reason the "Greatest Hits Live" dates might be a bit cheaper for promoters is that it appears only Al *may* be appearing with Brian. Blondie isn't listed on the little poster/advertisement for the "Hits" shows. I'm guessing it's quite possible Blondie might still appear at some if not most or all of those shows, especially where "Hits" shows are mixed in during a string of PS shows. But if there are some non-Blondie shows, those might be a bit cheaper.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 17, 2018, 12:43:48 PM
I really doubt Blondie is putting a dent in the tour budget. The man plays 3-5 songs depending on how often he staggers out half-stoned with a tambourine in his hand.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 17, 2018, 01:37:02 PM
I really doubt Blondie is putting a dent in the tour budget. The man plays 3-5 songs depending on how often he staggers out half-stoned with a tambourine in his hand.

They pay Blondie something to go out on tour (probably more than anyone but Al), and a second "Special Guest" adds something to the selling value of the show. So again, not a big deal at all and hardly even worth a discussion given the paucity of inside info we have, but I'm guessing a "Pet Sounds Anniversary" show with two ex-Beach Boys as "Special Guests" costs a little more (both on the artist side in terms of overheard as well as what price the show commands) than a "Greatest Hits Live" show (read: "Regular" show) with, in some cases, only one ex-Beach Boy as "Special Guest."

And especially in terms of overhead costs, it costs them the same whether Blondie sings 3 songs or 30. It costs X amount in travel and lodging costs for each person. Which is the reason I've been surprised they haven't utilized Blondie at least a little bit more considering they're going to the trouble of paying him and bringing him out there.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 18, 2018, 06:31:18 AM
Anybody going to the Colorado Springs tour opener tonight?

It looks like they're doing the two April shows and then they're off again until early May. So my guess would be these first two shows aren't going to have like a mind-blowingly different setlist.

But definitely curious to see where things are after six months off.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: baseball95 on April 18, 2018, 03:15:12 PM
Anybody going to the Colorado Springs tour opener tonight?

It looks like they're doing the two April shows and then they're off again until early May. So my guess would be these first two shows aren't going to have like a mind-blowingly different setlist.

But definitely curious to see where things are after six months off.
I’d say Blondie might get a new song on these tours but he’s not even confirmed for these GH shows. Hopefully Al keeps Susie Cincinnati in the set and Wild Honey mini set.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 18, 2018, 07:54:55 PM
I doubt Susie or Wild Honey tunes will stick around, as much as I want them to. I'd expect meat and potatoes (by Brian's standards) tonight.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 18, 2018, 11:09:13 PM
I'm not sure the setlist is 100% accurate, but one has been posted at setlist.fm and indicates Blondie was there.

It also lists "Cool Cool Water", though in the past people have listed that song when it's actually "California Saga: California."

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on April 19, 2018, 04:14:01 AM
Interesting. Either way, they dropped in Feel Flows, Let Him Run Wild, and Susie Cincinnati...which are all great deep cuts for the show in my book. Sure, they've been done recently but they don't have a storied legacy with the live show by any stretch and I've never heard them live before! I'd be more than happy if they stuck around for the Kennedy Center concert!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Matt H on April 19, 2018, 05:15:20 AM
I'm not sure the setlist is 100% accurate, but one has been posted at setlist.fm and indicates Blondie was there.

It also lists "Cool Cool Water", though in the past people have listed that song when it's actually "California Saga: California."

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html

It has been changed to "California Saga: California."


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on April 19, 2018, 06:24:07 AM
Add Some Music!   8)



Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 19, 2018, 06:36:21 AM
Interesting. Either way, they dropped in Feel Flows, Let Him Run Wild, and Susie Cincinnati...which are all great deep cuts for the show in my book. Sure, they've been done recently but they don't have a storied legacy with the live show by any stretch and I've never heard them live before! I'd be more than happy if they stuck around for the Kennedy Center concert!

If I had to guess, once the PS set is dropped in, you'd be more likely to see "Feel Flows" and "Susie Cincinnati" survive, as those were performed during last year's PS shows. I think "Let Him Run Wild" is one of those "alternates" that isn't regularly in the setlist. I figure at least a few of the songs in last night's setlist would have to be dropped to accommodate nine more PS songs.

As far as the setlist last night in general, it looks fine and it's about what I would expect. This and the next show are essentially one-offs prior to the tour ramping up in a few weeks, and one-off type shows usually don't have epically weird setlists.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 19, 2018, 06:40:24 AM
I'm not sure the setlist is 100% accurate, but one has been posted at setlist.fm and indicates Blondie was there.

It also lists "Cool Cool Water", though in the past people have listed that song when it's actually "California Saga: California."

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html

It has been changed to "California Saga: California."

That's what I suspected. Not sure why that mistake gets made so often at setlist.fm. One would think that anybody that is nerdy and detail-oriented enough to post something on setlist.fm would also be detail-oriented enough to either be familiar with the artist's catalog or look up any song they're not familiar with. This is a good reminder of the occasional downside of setlist.fm.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 19, 2018, 08:16:53 AM
Brian's people posted on Facebook that Vicar St, Dublin has been added for August 21 and 22. Tickets on sale April 26th at 10.am. http://thethinair.net/2018/04/brian-wilson-set-for-dublin-return/

BTW Brian is also playing on August 18th at Doncaster - not shown yet on page 1 of this thread.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on April 19, 2018, 09:27:42 AM
I'm not sure the setlist is 100% accurate, but one has been posted at setlist.fm and indicates Blondie was there.

It also lists "Cool Cool Water", though in the past people have listed that song when it's actually "California Saga: California."

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/pikes-peak-center-colorado-springs-co-63ecdedb.html

It has been changed to "California Saga: California."

That's what I suspected. Not sure why that mistake gets made so often at setlist.fm. One would think that anybody that is nerdy and detail-oriented enough to post something on setlist.fm would also be detail-oriented enough to either be familiar with the artist's catalog or look up any song they're not familiar with. This is a good reminder of the occasional downside of setlist.fm.

When I was getting deeper and deeper into it, the first time I heard California Saga I assumed it was Cool, Cool Water (I'd heard of the latter but never heard it, and still haven't heard it but that's not the point ;D).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 19, 2018, 09:51:34 AM
Brian's people posted on Facebook that Vicar St, Dublin has been added for August 21 and 22. Tickets on sale April 26th at 10.am. http://thethinair.net/2018/04/brian-wilson-set-for-dublin-return/

BTW Brian is also playing on August 18th at Doncaster - not shown yet on page 1 of this thread.

I think I listed the Doncaster show a few days back. It's under the "Greatest Hits" section of gigs. I also added the Dublin gigs earlier this morning. They apparently will also be GH shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 19, 2018, 10:45:54 AM
Sorry - must have looked in the wrong place!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: 37!ws (hint: turn it upside-down) on April 19, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
So....looks like Nelson Bragg is out, Jim Laspesa is in.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 20, 2018, 06:30:35 AM
Are we to assume the percussionist change is permanent?

I'm kind of surprised they felt the need to replace Nelson Bragg. Not that he's not a great drummer/percussionist, and not that having that extra percussion isn't cool. But I would think they might have just had Matt Jardine resume his old percussionist role as he did in the old days with the BBs. But maybe they need Matt more up front (and he does play some key guitar parts in the band now), and certainly Matt hasn't usually don't elaborate percussion the way D'Amico or Bragg have done in the past.

It's funny that personnel changes in Brian's band seem kind of more jarring because he's had less (proportionate) turnover in his band compared to a lot of touring bands including in some cases the actual BBs.

The big question: Did John Stamos audition to be Bragg's replacement?  :lol

I'm gonna just go ahead and assume this is step one of merging Brian and Mike's band back together for another reunion tour, as I would doubt Mike would want to play with Bragg again after he besmirched the name of Stamos.....  :lol


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 20, 2018, 06:39:23 AM
I'll really miss Nelson not just for his undoubted skills but also for his enthusiasm and for his public relations talents. Nelson was always ready to meet with the fans.

I sincerely hope it ISN'T about another reunion. I would find that awful rather than funny! After the last time, funny peculiar rather than amusing.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 20, 2018, 06:45:35 AM
I'll really miss Nelson not just for his undoubted skills but also for his enthusiasm and for his public relations talents. Nelson was always ready to meet with the fans.

I sincerely hope it ISN'T about another reunion. I would find that awful rather than funny! After the last time, funny peculiar rather than amusing.

Yeah, to be even more explicitly clear, my reunion reference was most definitely a joke.

Don't get me wrong, while I appreciate Nelson's work, I would absolutely sacrifice his participation if it meant a true, harmonious, and fruitful BB reunion along the lines of 2012. But I don't think any of that is something that's even on the table at this point.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 21, 2018, 10:40:23 PM
Brian evidently did a private fundraiser show on April 19 in Denver. I've added it to the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on April 22, 2018, 06:56:19 AM
Are we to assume the percussionist change is permanent?

I'm kind of surprised they felt the need to replace Nelson Bragg. Not that he's not a great drummer/percussionist, and not that having that extra percussion isn't cool. But I would think they might have just had Matt Jardine resume his old percussionist role as he did in the old days with the BBs. But maybe they need Matt more up front (and he does play some key guitar parts in the band now), and certainly Matt hasn't usually don't elaborate percussion the way D'Amico or Bragg have done in the past.

It's possible that Nelson quit, as opposed to being let go, right? He's a drummer and songwriter himself, so maybe he wanted to pursue other projects.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on April 22, 2018, 05:27:06 PM
Brian evidently did a private fundraiser show on April 19 in Denver. I've added it to the top post.

Interestingly, setlist.fm indicates that the show ended with Fun Fun Fun rather than Love and Mercy. In My Room and California Saga were also dropped from the set for this private show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 23, 2018, 06:48:40 AM
Brian evidently did a private fundraiser show on April 19 in Denver. I've added it to the top post.

Interestingly, setlist.fm indicates that the show ended with Fun Fun Fun rather than Love and Mercy. In My Room and California Saga were also dropped from the set for this private show.

It's interesting that they didn't shorten it too much. Private/corporate/fundraiser gigs are often if not usually shorter.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 23, 2018, 08:49:34 AM
Added a 12/8 show in Wallingford, CT to the top post schedule. This is of course an XMas show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ang Jones on April 24, 2018, 03:59:12 AM
Brian is to play Edinburgh on August 19th. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/brian-wilson-confirms-headline-slot-at-edinburgh-summer-sessions-1-4729316


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 24, 2018, 06:10:35 AM
I've added the Edinburgh gig to the top post schedule. The website for the concert series shows this one as a PS show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Zesterz on April 24, 2018, 07:22:22 AM
Looks like £62 to stand for 3 hours.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on April 24, 2018, 12:42:34 PM
Another new date, PS show:
Aug. 24 -- Birmingham, England, UK -- Digbeth Arena

Also, Lee's prediction was correct -- the Windsor, ON show has been postponed, new date TBA, due to the labor strike.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on April 24, 2018, 01:57:41 PM
The 8/24 date has been on the top post schedule for awhile. I'll add a notation to the Windsor show reflecting a postponement.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pacific Ocean Blue on April 25, 2018, 08:39:00 AM
confirmed for the Edinburgh Summer Sessions on the 19th August, excellent!!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Wrightfan on April 29, 2018, 03:42:32 PM
Just my two cents but I've never heard it called "The Broadway Theater at UPAC." It's either UPAC or Ulster Performing Arts Center.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Uncle Walter on May 01, 2018, 11:36:00 AM
Quote
MESSAGE FROM BRIAN:

Dear friends,

As some of you might know I have been having some issues with my back that has very recently gotten worse. It runs in my family, Carl had back problems as well. My doctors have told me that I need to have back surgery immediately.They are optimistic that this will finally relieve the pain.

Sadly, this means we must postpone the upcoming May shows. I’m very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause to everyone who was coming out to see us.

I know that my agents are already in the process of rescheduling and we will have some of the make up dates to announce very soon. We will get you all the info ASAP.

Please know that the music is in my heart and in my soul and me and the boys are looking forward to performing for you very soon.

Love & Mercy,

Brian

https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/photos/a.452661542240.241240.34250497240/10156881611997241/?type=3


Title: Brian to have back surgery Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 01, 2018, 11:39:40 AM
Hopefully this will alleviate some of the pain.  Sucks that the tour will be postponed but his health comes first.


Title: Re: Brian to have back surgery Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 01, 2018, 11:46:19 AM
Hopefully this will alleviate some of the pain.  Sucks that the tour will be postponed but his health comes first.


And as many of know either first hand or because we've known people with back issues, serious back issues at any age, and certainly at Brian's age, can be extremely taxing and severely limit mobility.

This hopefully also helps alleviate the concerns some people have had that Brian's being trotted out on tour against his wishes, etc. Brian and those around him made the call (at no small expense; even with rescheduling this endeavor is costing them some money among other things) to make Brian's health the top priority.

Let us also be grateful that the medical news is something like the back as opposed to something more life-threatening. Back problems can be lessened or at least curtailed with proper surgery.

I'll update the top post tour schedule accordingly.

In the meantime, it might be cool (although perhaps too late in the game) for Al to book some extra club gigs.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on May 01, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
I had tickets to two of the Nashville shows next week and I wouldn't have been able to go, due to family problems - and a bad back (it's been bothering me for several weeks).
I can't imagine the pain Brian would have to endure, traveling, getting into and out of busses, or plane travel, sleeping in uncomfortable beds etc
We've been blessed to have Brian make all his shows over the past few years, none cancelled due to illness or injury. 
Wishing him all the best for a full recovery. Back injuries are a %$@+&!!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 01, 2018, 12:48:01 PM
I mistakenly posted about this in the BB tour thread. No wonder no one appeared to have posted about it yet.  :-D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 01, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
I can't imagine the pain Brian would have to endure, traveling, getting into and out of busses, or plane travel, sleeping in uncomfortable beds etc
We've been blessed to have Brian make all his shows over the past few years, none cancelled due to illness or injury. 
Wishing him all the best for a full recovery. Back injuries are a %$@+&!!

Yes to all of this. Brian has been a trooper, but we all know there have been visible signs of his back issues. I know he's old, but he's had enough pain (physical and otherwise) for several lifetimes. I hope this surgery makes life more comfortable and enjoyable for him.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on May 01, 2018, 02:43:36 PM
Truly a bummer...Prayers to Brian for alleviation from pain. I was so ready for this show...but his health is always the priority. Love and Mercy.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: The Lovester on May 01, 2018, 03:52:19 PM
Quote
Cousin,
I know what it's like to have the (Wilson) back gene. I am sympathetic and empathetic, as I myself have had back problems as early as junior high. I hope one day we'll be able to do something like this again; great memories. Looking forward to perhaps one day throwing some hoops. Feel better soon Brian.
Love, your cousin,
Mike 

Nice message from Mike on his Facebook, he posted this along with the picture of he and Brian playing basketball.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 01, 2018, 04:47:29 PM
Quote
Cousin,
I know what it's like to have the (Wilson) back gene. I am sympathetic and empathetic, as I myself have had back problems as early as junior high. I hope one day we'll be able to do something like this again; great memories. Looking forward to perhaps one day throwing some hoops. Feel better soon Brian.
Love, your cousin,
Mike 

Nice message from Mike on his Facebook, he posted this along with the picture of he and Brian playing basketball.

That's very sweet.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: thatjacob on May 01, 2018, 04:55:47 PM
The Nashville Symphony Orchestra shows are still going on, just without Brian's band. They apparently asked Sail On (the explorers club) to step in.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Shady on May 01, 2018, 05:35:23 PM
Fingers crossed this fixes his back.

Long overdue


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on May 01, 2018, 07:47:09 PM
No disrespect to Brian and company on this, but this is some real nonsense. The Kennedy Center concert has been rescheduled for Monday, November 5th and all tickets are now invalid. Those of us that already had tickets will have the opportunity to purchase tickets AGAIN as a presale. I have never had to go through this with a cancellation before. Not that I have had a ton, but they have always simply transferred our seats to the new date whenever a change was made. Not sure what this is about but it is quite aggravating and as of now, there is no onsale date and time. Oh...and I had to look this up on their website. I have received nothing from them via email yet.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Til...I...@died on May 01, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Jeez. To me it seems like an appropriate way to handle the issue since there is so much time between the canceled date and the rescheduled date. Damned if you do damned if you don’t in todays world of entitlement. I’ll be happy if I ever get to see the man on stage ever again. And if it gets canceled five times and I have to rebuy ten times, lose time and money, and move from first row to nosebleeds I’ll feel privileged to be in attendance.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on May 01, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Jeez. To me it seems like an appropriate way to handle the issue since there is so much time between the canceled date and the rescheduled date. Damned if you do damned if you don’t in todays world of entitlement. I’ll be happy if I ever get to see the man on stage ever again. And if it gets canceled five times and I have to rebuy ten times, lose time and money, and move from first row to nosebleeds I’ll feel privileged to be in attendance.

Seriously? I took my time and my money to line this up once already. In case it was unclear before, I am not upset with those on Brian Wilson's end of the deal.

I looked up the other dates posted and this is the only venue handling things this way. I average about a dozen shows of various artists a year and I'd say on average there's about one cancellation or rescheduling a year. In the case of the rescheduled shows, I have always had the option to keep my seat for the new date or take the time to cancel. It is disrespectful to the fan and a patron of the venue to put us through the above and beyond agitating process of ticket purchasing two times over, for a show we already have tickets for.

Time is not a factor. I bought tickets to see The Who in December of 2014 for a concert in November of 2015 that was rescheduled for March of 2016 and not over the near two year endeavor did I have to do anything beyond my initial purchase to ensure I would enter the venue and have two seats.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on May 01, 2018, 08:27:33 PM
The Nashville Symphony Orchestra shows are still going on, just without Brian's band. They apparently asked Sail On (the explorers club) to step in.

I got an email from the Nashville Symphony this afternoon. Those who bought tickets have several options, including getting refunds, or leaving the money in a symphony account that can be used for future concerts.
They hope to be able to reschedule Brian's concert.

Those who decide to go to the concert with Sail On will receive a complimentary ticket to another symphony tribute show (selection from Pink Floyd, Rascals, Beatles).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pacific Ocean Blue on May 02, 2018, 12:39:01 AM
Quote
Cousin,
I know what it's like to have the (Wilson) back gene. I am sympathetic and empathetic, as I myself have had back problems as early as junior high. I hope one day we'll be able to do something like this again; great memories. Looking forward to perhaps one day throwing some hoops. Feel better soon Brian.
Love, your cousin,
Mike 

Nice message from Mike on his Facebook, he posted this along with the picture of he and Brian playing basketball.

He tweeted it as well, pretty cool from him


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 02, 2018, 06:37:30 AM
Concerning the Kennedy Center show, while canceling the tickets and doing another sale isn't the most common outcome of a rescheduling situation, it's not that crazy of a scenario. I would imagine the venue has reasons for doing it this way. Perhaps in their experience, a show rescheduled for *six* months later has enough refund requests that it's easier to just start over from scratch.

The venue's website does mention that current ticketholders will be given a chance to purchase tickets in advance of the general on-sale date.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: KDS on May 02, 2018, 06:47:47 AM
No disrespect to Brian and company on this, but this is some real nonsense. The Kennedy Center concert has been rescheduled for Monday, November 5th and all tickets are now invalid. Those of us that already had tickets will have the opportunity to purchase tickets AGAIN as a presale. I have never had to go through this with a cancellation before. Not that I have had a ton, but they have always simply transferred our seats to the new date whenever a change was made. Not sure what this is about but it is quite aggravating and as of now, there is no onsale date and time. Oh...and I had to look this up on their website. I have received nothing from them via email yet.

I'm glad I decided not to get tickets for that show.   Unless something really special comes there, I now know to NEVER buy tickets for anything at this venue if that's how they handle things. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 02, 2018, 09:32:26 AM
Concerning the Kennedy Center show, while canceling the tickets and doing another sale isn't the most common outcome of a rescheduling situation, it's not that crazy of a scenario. I would imagine the venue has reasons for doing it this way. Perhaps in their experience, a show rescheduled for *six* months later has enough refund requests that it's easier to just start over from scratch.

The venue's website does mention that current ticketholders will be given a chance to purchase tickets in advance of the general on-sale date.

Almost guarantee that the ‘cancel and rebook’ scenario is in the fine print you ‘agree’ to when you bought the tickets from the venue. That and no compensation for hotels, travel etc.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Zesterz on May 02, 2018, 09:50:31 AM
Perhaps the plan  all along was for surgery after May gigs .....and recovery through June , as no gigs were showing then ?  Possibly BW's back caused more urgent surgery and intervention. IMO


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 02, 2018, 10:16:47 AM
Concerning the Kennedy Center show, while canceling the tickets and doing another sale isn't the most common outcome of a rescheduling situation, it's not that crazy of a scenario. I would imagine the venue has reasons for doing it this way. Perhaps in their experience, a show rescheduled for *six* months later has enough refund requests that it's easier to just start over from scratch.

The venue's website does mention that current ticketholders will be given a chance to purchase tickets in advance of the general on-sale date.

Almost guarantee that the ‘cancel and rebook’ scenario is in the fine print you ‘agree’ to when you bought the tickets from the venue. That and no compensation for hotels, travel etc.

And more generally, I think any ticketing agreement includes the possibility of a canceled show at any time, and the one and only thing they need to do is make sure everybody is refunded (or able to get a refund).

Seriously, I know all sort of things to do with concert tickets can be a pain, but in the internet age it's *a lot* better than it used to be. There was one Ringo tour I bought tickets for where I drove *hours* to the venue only to find out the show had been canceled. It was something I would have learned about days ahead of time in the internet era.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: marcella27 on May 02, 2018, 10:38:52 AM
I haven't received anything from Kennedy Center either. I really think the venue has a responsibility to inform ticket buyers that a show's been cancelled. They shouldn't be counting on the fact that I get info from smileysmile or Mike's twitter.

I'm super bummed. I had planned a whole weekend in DC (don't live there) which I'm now going to cancel. I was really, really, really looking forward to this show.

I hope Brian gets better soon.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 02, 2018, 11:18:02 AM
I haven't received anything from Kennedy Center either. I really think the venue has a responsibility to inform ticket buyers that a show's been cancelled. They shouldn't be counting on the fact that I get info from smileysmile or Mike's twitter.

I'm super bummed. I had planned a whole weekend in DC (don't live there) which I'm now going to cancel. I was really, really, really looking forward to this show.

I hope Brian gets better soon.

I would assume they will fan out an e-mail via whatever entity sold the tickets. This announcement came from Brian only 24 hours ago.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on May 02, 2018, 03:54:03 PM
Update from Brian via Twitter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcOedV5X0AAMveQ?format=jpg&name=900x900)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 02, 2018, 04:51:36 PM
Update from Brian via Twitter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcOedV5X0AAMveQ?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Not going to lie-- I just breathed a sigh of relief. Best wishes for your recovery, Brian.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Shady on May 02, 2018, 07:37:45 PM
Update from Brian via Twitter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcOedV5X0AAMveQ?format=jpg&name=900x900)

He looks great here

 ;D


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jim V. on May 02, 2018, 08:37:53 PM
Update from Brian via Twitter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcOedV5X0AAMveQ?format=jpg&name=900x900)

He looks great here

 ;D

He surely does. I hope this helps Brian enjoy life even more. And I hope he's here with us for a while still.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 02, 2018, 09:03:37 PM
Picture is from 2016, but I love it :)

Glad to know the surgery went well! Back pain is excruciating...I know all too well!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Jay on May 02, 2018, 09:58:09 PM
I've had scoliosis for about 23 or so years now, and it's at just about the worst it will get(90% curvature). Yeah, chronic back pain is horrendous to deal with. I'm glad Brian had surgery and can get better.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RubberSoul13 on May 03, 2018, 04:03:03 AM
Glad to hear all went well...I thought I had seen that picture before.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Cabinessenceking on May 03, 2018, 04:45:18 AM
Brian's just such a nice guy. Beyond admiring his music he is very admirable for his incredibly positive attitude, exceeding humbleness and gratitude to those wishing him well and appreciating him. A gracious gentleman by any measure.

The Wilson brothers, for all the failures and disasters they endured, always struck me as really good people and very kindhearted.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on May 03, 2018, 04:56:30 AM
Cool news!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 03, 2018, 06:06:19 AM
Brian's just such a nice guy. Beyond admiring his music he is very admirable for his incredibly positive attitude, exceeding humbleness and gratitude to those wishing him well and appreciating him. A gracious gentleman by any measure.

The Wilson brothers, for all the failures and disasters they endured, always struck me as really good people and very kindhearted.

I doubt he wrote that message, but I agree with the sentiment. He has such a good heart and deserves the very best for all he has gone through and given to the world. I hope future concertgoers report that he's dancing on stage, or at the very least, he can get on and off stage without assistance.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 04, 2018, 09:33:35 PM
Glad the back problems are finally being taken care of. And glad those around him recognized this as being more serious than trotting him out for more shows.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on May 05, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
Brian's just such a nice guy. Beyond admiring his music he is very admirable for his incredibly positive attitude, exceeding humbleness and gratitude to those wishing him well and appreciating him. A gracious gentleman by any measure.

The Wilson brothers, for all the failures and disasters they endured, always struck me as really good people and very kindhearted.

I doubt he wrote that message, but I agree with the sentiment. He has such a good heart and deserves the very best for all he has gone through and given to the world. I hope future concertgoers report that he's dancing on stage, or at the very least, he can get on and off stage without assistance.

He actually doesn't always see all the cabling on the floor, so helping him on and offstage is actually a good idea.  Dancing sounds good. I also know that Melinda always went to Brian for his public quotes.  They may tidy them up (like any casual speech we have and then put into writing), but it's his sentiment.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 05, 2018, 01:49:22 PM
Speaking of going on and off, I'll never forget the first BW show I went to back in 2004. He was about to leave the stage before Love and Mercy, still had the bass strapped on, ran like hell to the side...then ran back, put the bass on the ground, then proceeded to finish running back off the stage :lol  Still one of my all time favorite BW moments


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Debbie KL on May 05, 2018, 01:57:52 PM
Speaking of going on and off, I'll never forget the first BW show I went to back in 2004. He was about to leave the stage before Love and Mercy, still had the bass strapped on, ran like hell to the side...then ran back, put the bass on the ground, then proceeded to finish running back off the stage :lol  Still one of my all time favorite BW moments

It's a beautiful thing.  Brian making us laugh is almost as great as his music.  I remember when he was trying to rush off-stage when he got caught in the spotlight that was on the band member he was behind.  He froze in place. It was hilarious.  There will never be another Brian.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 05, 2018, 02:10:24 PM
Brian's just such a nice guy. Beyond admiring his music he is very admirable for his incredibly positive attitude, exceeding humbleness and gratitude to those wishing him well and appreciating him. A gracious gentleman by any measure.

The Wilson brothers, for all the failures and disasters they endured, always struck me as really good people and very kindhearted.

I doubt he wrote that message, but I agree with the sentiment. He has such a good heart and deserves the very best for all he has gone through and given to the world. I hope future concertgoers report that he's dancing on stage, or at the very least, he can get on and off stage without assistance.

He actually doesn't always see all the cabling on the floor, so helping him on and offstage is actually a good idea.  Dancing sounds good. I also know that Melinda always went to Brian for his public quotes.  They may tidy them up (like any casual speech we have and then put into writing), but it's his sentiment.

Well, I stand corrected. I have no firsthand experience with the celebrity world. I always assumed a celeb would tell an assistant or manager, "Just tell them thank you" and the manager would write something up.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 05, 2018, 02:28:39 PM
Speaking of going on and off, I'll never forget the first BW show I went to back in 2004. He was about to leave the stage before Love and Mercy, still had the bass strapped on, ran like hell to the side...then ran back, put the bass on the ground, then proceeded to finish running back off the stage :lol  Still one of my all time favorite BW moments

It's a beautiful thing.  Brian making us laugh is almost as great as his music.  I remember when he was trying to rush off-stage when he got caught in the spotlight that was on the band member he was behind.  He froze in place. It was hilarious.  There will never be another Brian.

Have said this for years, but there seriously needs to be a book entitled "The Wit and Wisdom of Brian Wilson" featuring great Brian-isms. I'd love to write it, personally.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 07, 2018, 12:58:51 PM
A new XMas show has been announced for 12/3 in Pittsburgh. I've added it to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on May 10, 2018, 12:48:45 PM
A new rescheduled date:
Nov. 10 -- Clearwater, FL -- Ruth Eckerd Hall


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on May 15, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
New Christmas show just announced:
Dec. 14 -- Dallas, TX -- Majestic Theatre


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 15, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Added the 12/14 show to the top post. Thanks!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on May 15, 2018, 01:34:08 PM
Another rescheduled PS date:
Nov. 9 -- Augusta, GA -- Bell Auditorium


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Amy B. on May 16, 2018, 09:40:52 AM
I haven't seen anyone post this yet. From Brian's twitter/Instagram. Says he's feeling a lot better.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdK-Te2V0AAVw93.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on May 16, 2018, 10:10:12 PM
I haven't seen anyone post this yet. From Brian's twitter/Instagram. Says he's feeling a lot better.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdK-Te2V0AAVw93.jpg)


Thanks for sharing, Amy. When I first saw this on Instagram the other day I thought to myself you can see relief in his eyes, like the back pain is relieved kinda thing... Hoping for a great summer and fall tour!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 25, 2018, 06:05:52 AM
Brian's Facebook has mentioned an 8/26 show at the Royal Windsor Racecourse in the UK. It doesn't specify what type of show, but I'm guessing it's a "Greatest Hits" show, as the other "Racecourse" show is also a GH show and this would seem to be the modern-day UK equivalent of the 80s gigs the BBs played in baseball stadiums. I've added the show to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on May 29, 2018, 08:53:00 PM
Added the 5/4 date reschedule to 11/25.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 01, 2018, 07:45:21 AM
Added an 11/1 NJ "Greatest Hits" show and a rescheduled show (the 5/15 show moved to 11/2) to the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 01, 2018, 07:46:21 AM
I'm curious how they're going to work out rehearsing for the XMas shows starting at the end of November. The last rescheduled PS show is only three days prior to the beginning of he XMas tour.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 04, 2018, 08:33:24 AM
Added a newly-announced GH show in Atlanta for 11/8 to the top post.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on June 04, 2018, 11:47:37 AM
Atlanta -- yay!! (Although I was hoping for a Christmas show....)


 :happydance


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: thatjacob on June 04, 2018, 05:31:21 PM
Atlanta -- yay!! (Although I was hoping for a Christmas show....)


 :happydance

Me too. I'm not sure if I'll be catching this one, but I would've gone to a Christmas show for sure.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on June 08, 2018, 07:22:28 AM
I'm a happy camper -- just scored some very good seats for Brian's Atlanta show.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Ram4 on June 08, 2018, 08:13:07 AM
I was going to be in Detroit and thought about going to the May 4th show in Windsor, only to see it postponed.  We'll see if the timing is right in November.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: dcowboys107 on June 09, 2018, 07:48:44 PM
I was going to be in Detroit and thought about going to the May 4th show in Windsor, only to see it postponed.  We'll see if the timing is right in November.

Same here! Which seats did you get?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 12, 2018, 09:42:57 AM
Added the August 6 Italy show (a PS show) to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on June 12, 2018, 05:05:54 PM
August 6, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Teatro Antico
August 11, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Anfiteatro Romano

Is this two shows at the same venue?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 13, 2018, 07:47:06 AM
August 6, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Teatro Antico
August 11, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Anfiteatro Romano

Is this two shows at the same venue?

Not sure. The venue names aren't identical, though I'm of course not familiar with Italian venues. Both shows are listed on Brian's website.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Emdeeh on June 13, 2018, 12:40:21 PM
Google Maps shows the exact same location when you punch in the respective names. If I'm translating correctly "Anfiteatro Romano" means "Roman Amphitheater," and "Teatro Antico" means antique or old theater or theater from Antiquity. Sounds like the same place to me. So, two shows, same venue?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 18, 2018, 01:13:36 PM
Added "Greatest Hits" dates for 11/15, 11/17, 11/20, and 11/21, and a PS show for 11/16 all to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on June 19, 2018, 12:19:33 PM
Added an 11/13 Kansas City, MO show (Greatest Hits) to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on July 03, 2018, 06:22:53 AM
Not sure how it slipped by, and I'm *thinking* this was added pretty recently on Al and Brian's websites, but there is a July 19 "Pet Sounds" show in Morristown, NJ that I just noticed and have added to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on July 03, 2018, 06:25:52 AM
August 6, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Teatro Antico
August 11, 2018 - Taormina, Italy - Anfiteatro Romano

Is this two shows at the same venue?

The August 6 show is now gone from both Brian and Al's website, so I've removed it from the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on July 09, 2018, 07:23:13 AM
Added a 12/21 Christmas Album show to the top post schedule.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: Matt H on July 16, 2018, 06:17:02 AM
Did anyone go yesterday, wondering how he was now that his back is fixed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: HeyJude on July 16, 2018, 09:10:29 AM
A setlist for last night's show has been posted at setlist.fm (I've added this to the top post as well). No surprises or new additions so far if this setlist is accurate (though it should be noted that festival gigs are usually the last shows to contain new surprises, and they are usually at least a bit shorter than a typical show, as this setlist appears to be):

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2018/westshore-parks-colwood-bc-canada-7beb9ecc.html


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2018, 10:41:57 AM
Did anyone go yesterday, wondering how he was now that his back is fixed.

Was going to ask the same thing... I’m happy that he’s back at it and he’s looking great . Back issues are certainly no joke at any age.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: All Summer Long on July 16, 2018, 11:15:30 AM
Did anyone go yesterday, wondering how he was now that his back is fixed.

Was going to ask the same thing... apparently not going to see the shows is a bad thing and we should all know instead of sitting “agape querieing one another re: "what happened last night?"” and post the setlist from setlist fm. Better quit my job and attend every show!  ::)

In all seriousness, I’m happy that he’s back at it and he’s looking great . Back issues are certainly no joke at any age.

Does anyone know how long his back had been hurting him? Wondering if it affected the show I saw if him in September.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2018, 12:11:58 PM
I don’t think his back ever stopped bothering him. I know it was bad back in 2012, and back pain isn’t something that really goes away. I pray that this surgery provided relief and reduced his discomfort.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on July 16, 2018, 03:02:54 PM
All I can really find is a fan's comment to this photo:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10161267642295725&set=a.10150615933485725.688028.535940724&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10161267642295725&set=a.10150615933485725.688028.535940724&type=3&theater)

She posted:
Quote
Just saw Brian Wilson live 😭 What an incredible experience! He had back surgery 2 weeks ago. As he was carried to his piano he said "Its good to be back on the road" 💖 What an amazing love for music and sharing that music. I am so honored to see him live. One for the books!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on July 16, 2018, 03:18:23 PM
Carried to his piano...?