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Author Topic: Does Mike Love realize he is despised by millions of fans?  (Read 54043 times)
KDS
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« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2017, 06:13:27 AM »

Yet in the quote posted he does lug together all hardcore Brian fans.

If you chose to interpret it that way.  "For those who think Brian walks on water."  There are plenty of hardcore, dyed in the wool Brian Wilson fans who don't believe that Brian "walks on water" or is above any kind of criticism. 
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« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2017, 06:15:32 AM »

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And I'm sure you don't mean to come off as belittling to Brian when you say "not allowed" but really when you say something like that, it really is pretty disrespectful, especially after the great input that awesome people like Ray Lawlor have given us around here.

Yeah, but come on. People can say what they want, but I'll form my own opinion about how much say Brian Wilson has over his own career. I see the tours, listen to the interviews, and listen to the solo CDs, and that gives me an impression that is pretty hard to shake...

Having misgivings about how much control *you* think Brian Wilson has over his career is not something that isn't worthy of potential discussion. But you'll have to do better than "but come on" if you want to tread into that territory.

We have numerous insiders on this board, with different "interests" and points of view, who have spoken to this issue. No, it isn't as simple as Brian being exactly like any other person and being a self-starter about everything. But we've also had plenty of insight that indicates the ignorant position that he's "medicated and controlled" is unfair and erroneous as well.
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« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2017, 06:21:38 AM »

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We know this isn't gonna happen, but:

Giving an interview where he sincerely publicly apologizes for many, many instances of sh*tty behavior, acknowledges acting in a super toxic way for decades, and having massive ego problems, and how he is trying to get help for these things... this would help his image in the eyes of a number of people. It wouldn't change everything overnight, but it would help.  

Gee, is this what we want from our ROCK STARS now? "I'm so sorry for my "toxic" behavior, but I'm taking sensitivity classes now, and I'll be donating the proceeds of my next tour to Brian Wilson's favorite charity". I don't want such whimpering from anyone. They're all millionaires, they're all grown men, they're all people who have lived long lives where not everything they did was incredibly nice. Brian Wilson included.

We don't know any of those guys personally, and the reason BW comes off better in interviews is because he answers in monosyllables so we don't know what he's like in real life. Mike Love, as the lead singer and main lyricist of the Beach Boys, has given me and all of us here 50 years of entertainment, and I'm going to stand in moral judgement of him?

I say: Long live Mike Love! Long live Brian Wilson! Long live the Beach Boys!

This is pretty silly. First of all, the sort of rebellious "rock star" image is not something *any* of the Beach Boys have ever put across. The only times they've ever gotten snarly or rebellious would be things like Mike's R&R HOF speech, where he wasn't really trying to "tell it like it is", but rather he was whining and in some sort of altered state of mind.

And please, nobody is asking Mike to take sensitivity classes.

If you want the "tell it like it is" "Rock Star" version, then it's simple. Mike would probably earn a lot of props for just saying in an interview "yeah, sometimes I've been a dick."

But he won't do it. He's the one who is "whimpering" about the songwriting lawsuit in interviews (the one he won; he's literally a "sore winner"). He's still stuck in "I'm sorry if *you* were offended and don't understand my wry sense of humor" mode.


We don't know any of those guys personally

True, but in your previous post you said "but come on" and insisted you could speak to some pretty personal issues regarding Brian based on watching and reading interviews, etc.
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« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2017, 06:24:45 AM »

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Yes, "toxic" behavior is a thing.


Well then Brian Wilson can pick up the phone and call Mike Love and let him have it about his "toxicity" (such a silly word, "toxic": are we talking about people or nuclear waste?).

Both men perform to adoring crowds regularly so I think that Mike Love feels that, all things considered, he's a pretty popular guy.

Wouldn't it just be more "toxic" to call someone up and "let them have it?"

It's not Brian Wilson's job to give Mike a "you're a dick" status update on the phone. And frankly it wouldn't matter if Brian did "let Mike have it" on the phone; Mike would just contend and believe that it's "not really how Brian feels" and that "people around him" are making him say that stuff.

Mike has lobbed some pretty nefarious allegations regarding Brian being controlled, going so far as to imply, in my opinion, in one interview that when Brian says something nice about Mike, it must be because he shook his "handlers" for a few minutes and was allowed to say how he *actually* feels.
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« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2017, 06:27:30 AM »

As I recall, back right after Carl passed away, and before he had any license, Mike toured under a non Beach Boys banner....I think it was something like America's Band featuring Mike Love, something like that. I remember he came to one of the casino shows in Atlantic City area, and from what I remember he was playing one of those small, Happy Hour type rooms, not the big show rooms we see nowadays. I think the turnout was pretty BLAH....many did not know who he was I assume. Clearly, paying for the license and using the name Beach Boys is more financially attractive o him than going by his own moniker. Night and day, as it's the name "Beach Boys' that draws the crowds. And frankly, he knows that, ego or not.

Mike toured with Bruce and David Marks for part of 1998 under the "California Beach Band" (or something along those lines) moniker, which I think was one of his post-"Endless Summer Band" side-bands for corporate gigs, etc. But he apparently did some non-corporate, non-private shows under that name in 1998 when he wasn't cleared to use the BB name.

And yes indeed, it was and is pretty clear the "Beach Boys" name sells way more tickets. I think both the far more lucrative nature of using the name as well as Mike clearly feeling some level of "ownership" of the name (certainly as it pertains to touring) all dictated that Mike wanted that name back ASAP.
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« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2017, 06:38:17 AM »


If you read Mike's book, he doesn't say all fans, but I do agree with his quote that in some fans' eyes, Brian walks on water, and Mike is the anti Christ. 

From strictly a musical standpoint, to some fans, Brian's music is immune to criticism, but not so much with Mike. 

I'm not telling you that you have to agree with it, but I do. 

There's a difference between "this type of fan exists somewhere, technically" and "there is a widespread belief among many fans."

Of the countless fans I've met and spoken to over the years, every level of fan from casual to hardcore, from "barely knows the band's name" to "owns 57 pressings of MIU", I've almost never met anyone who is of the extreme of either believing "Brian walks on water" or that Mike "is the anti-Christ." That's all hyperbole.

Even the most hardcore of Brian fans have poked fun at some of his sub-par works. "Smart Girls", playing an entire song in the wrong key at that private gig in the 90s with Don Was, awful dance moves promoting "Night Time", phoning it in on major parts of GIOMH, and so on.

Sure, there are sometimes overly-defensive fans. But that's on both sides. Maybe a few fans were too defensive about NPP. But the same thing happens with Mike. A few people point out maybe it's a little tacky to have side guys singing like half the leads at a "Beach Boys" concert, and a few defensive fans jump in tell us how amazing the backing guys are.

Mike, based on his book and other interviews, doesn't seem to have any interest in truly delving into why some fans do seem to dislike him so much. It's much easier to *overstate* the level of dislike (e.g. "anti-Christ") and dismiss the whole ball of wax. It's a common tactic people use to deflect. If someone doesn't like you or disagrees with you, one method to try to neutralize the situation is to *exaggerate* their position and then dismiss the whole thing as an unfair, extremist viewpoint.

If Mike had exhibited *any* serious self-reflection and *true* humility and admitted mistakes specifically pertaining to the band and Brian and how he talks about him, it would go a long way.
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« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2017, 06:44:07 AM »

One of the problems with seemingly "defending" Mike, even the sort of half-measure, walked-back defenses that veer more towards the "well, what Mike says is true to some degree, sometimes, in certain circumstances" sort, is that it's really just unavoidably a pretty limp position to take. Sure, there is a very small contingent of people who go too far in criticizing Mike, making it far too inflammatory or too personal. But the majority of criticisms are well thought-out, germane, and especially on this board are stated with a pretty impressive specificity. We look into line-by-line readings of Mike interviews here, so that sort of thing shouldn't be lumped in with some Facebook troll who makes fun of John Stamos and says Carl and Dennis should have kicked Mike out in 1967.
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« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2017, 07:48:35 AM »

http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/08/17/mike-love-beach-boys-preview/88770362/

Mike:

“Brian’s life is controlled completely," he said. "It has been since Gene Landy, and it still is. And he’s medicated. If he says something about Mike Love unsolicited, he’ll say things like, ‘He’s my favorite lyricist.’ If and when we do see each other, we revert back to childhood, which is great. So if it were just he and I, I don’t think there would be any problems. We would work through them. I know that for a fact. But that is not the way it is. So let’s just leave it at that.”


Can anyone defend this? And in terms of Mike's motivations or ulterior motives, can anyone offer some points to help shed light on how saying this during a press junket phone interview and having it published in the Detroit Free Press the week Mike was playing a show in the Detroit area with the Four Tops has anything to do with promoting Mike's live concerts?
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« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2017, 07:51:30 AM »

And those interviews are supposed to be "puff" pieces, imagine what he says in private....
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« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2017, 07:55:34 AM »


If you read Mike's book, he doesn't say all fans, but I do agree with his quote that in some fans' eyes, Brian walks on water, and Mike is the anti Christ. 

From strictly a musical standpoint, to some fans, Brian's music is immune to criticism, but not so much with Mike. 

I'm not telling you that you have to agree with it, but I do. 

There's a difference between "this type of fan exists somewhere, technically" and "there is a widespread belief among many fans."

Of the countless fans I've met and spoken to over the years, every level of fan from casual to hardcore, from "barely knows the band's name" to "owns 57 pressings of MIU", I've almost never met anyone who is of the extreme of either believing "Brian walks on water" or that Mike "is the anti-Christ." That's all hyperbole.



Granted, I've never once read or heard anyone say that Mike Love is the antichrist, I do believe for certain fans this is an exaggerated truth. 
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« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2017, 07:57:42 AM »

To hear him say it:

"For those who believe that Brian walks on water, I will always be the Antichrist." - According to Mike Love's Good Vibrations: My Life as a Beach Boy

I think he knows. And that ^^ is a pretty condescending way of putting it, too, which kinda reinforces the idea of him being viewed as the 'bad guy'. lol I personally like him but he doesn't make it easy sometimes.

What he says isn't untrue.  

But, I do think that "despised by millions" is an exaggeration.  

Isn’t untrue?

It’s a catchy quote meant to make headlines (which it did) but nothing more. Firstly, Brian walking on water? A lot of people think Brian Wilson is a genius and yet some of these people also seem to like Mike too (or at least haven’t publicly said a bad word about the guy). Here Mike lugs in everyone who thinks extremely highly of Brian Wilson...in Mike’s mind apparently you can’t think Brian is a genius/great man without also hating Mike...this is such a childish outlook - you honestly think the two have to go hand in hand?

KDS, have you read the 2005 lawsuit? The quote(s) in there about Brian sitting around doing nothing but taking drugs and collecting royalty checks is why people hate Mike - and you don’t need to think Brian is a genius (or walks on water) to see how those lies in Mike’s own lawsuit make Mike an asshole. That antichrist quote from Mike is indeed untrue, it’s absolutely silly - it’s a line from a guy who has absolutely no grasp on the affect of his own actions and statements over the years. Brian did nothing from 1967 onward but take drugs and collect royalty checks? The amount of sh*t you Mike apologists ignore to prop up your man is staggering. Mike himself co-wrote beautiful songs with Brian post ‘67 yet he lied about this in his lawsuit that was dismissed just FIVE years prior to the C50.

To recap, firstly there are people out there who think insanely highly of Brian who don’t give a sh*t about Mike either way (so Mike’s statement is untrue). Secondly, this statement is geared toward people who either haven’t read or willfully ignore things like the 2005 lawsuit where Mike blatantly lies about Brian in a childish attempt to make a quick buck. Thirdly, you can hate Mike while not knowing or caring anything at all about Brian Wilson: anyone willing to lie about their own family member to make some cash is a sleaze...and it’s utterly mindblowing the depths people go to defend this shitty behavior.


Point in bold: They were dismissed but Mike and his legal team had the courts wrapped up in appeals filed for Mike against his defeat that went into late 2010 before it finally got closed by the court system.

So that was two years before C50 and Mike was still hammering away with this lawsuit and appeals surrounding it.

And not a peep about any of it appears in Mike's tell-all "set the record straight" book.
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« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2017, 08:03:40 AM »

Didn't the court admonish Mike big time as well?
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« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2017, 08:15:08 AM »

Didn't the court admonish Mike big time as well?

Yes, both directly, financially, and contained in the various rulings made by the courts. In the court system, it's generally not considered a positive to go before a judge with a lone witness supposed to provide evidence to support the plaintiff's case who the court found was not only stretching the facts of what happened to help bolster the grounds of filing the lawsuit itself, but was also personally associated with the plaintiff's lawyers. In this case it was Mike's witness who claimed the confusion over the giveaway CD, and it turned out the facts weren't adding up.
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« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2017, 08:18:59 AM »

Oh yeah the guy who was "confused" was associated with the lawyer.... All of this legal bullshit to make BW miserable after BWPS. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2017, 08:25:38 AM »

Granted, I've never once read or heard anyone say that Mike Love is the antichrist, I do believe for certain fans this is an exaggerated truth. 

Exactly, it's *exaggerated*.

So Mike claims some fans feel that way about him, most fans I would think would say that there are few if any fans that *actually* feel that way about him, and you are acknowledging that you've never seen or heard a fan say this and that it's an "exaggerated truth." If it's exaggerated and not actually the case, what's the point of trying to back up Mike's statement? It's hyperbolic.

I can come up with an "exaggerated" version of all sort of stuff the guys have done and said over the years. Remember that time Mike said Al was a total douchebag? Of course not; he never said that. But it's an *exaggerated version* of what Mike maybe thought of Al at various points over the years.

Normally, I'd say Mike maybe meant it hyperbolically. But he seems to have a persecution complex to some degree, and a self-serving (as most, but not all, are) autobiography is certainly the place where a persecution complex can run amok without any checks.

If Mike would offer something more like "I've said some hurtful and inflammatory things and I understand why some people don't like my attitude and position. Unfortunately, sometimes the criticisms have become excessive and personal. I should own up to my mistakes, but overzealous critics attacking me personally should also own up to what they've done", then I think there would be a lot more sympathy for Mike.

As previously mentioned, the Rolling Stone piece from a year or two back (the one with Jackie and Mike role-playing a Brian-Mike conversation) was the closest we've come to Mike being self-reflective and owning up to something, but even then he couldn't really do it. Someone even finally pointed out directly to Mike that he espouses the virtues of meditation as a calming device, yet Mike seems severely angry in interview after interview and in various instances over the years. Mike's response? He'd be *worse* if he didn't meditate. I appreciate the relative honesty at least on that one. It doesn't reflect well on him, but it's one of the few instances in which he's at least passively admitting he can be angry and would be even more angry and vitriolic under alternate circumstances.
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« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2017, 08:28:55 AM »

Oh yeah the guy who was "confused" was associated with the lawyer.... All of this legal bullshit to make BW miserable after BWPS. Roll Eyes

That's what happened. The court needed something more substantial from Mike's side to show the confusion, they produced this one witness who claimed confusion over the CD, and credit to some good ol' legal research and investigation, it was found the witness was associated with the plaintiff's lawyers and that this witness never got the actual CD as a giveaway with the Sunday Mail - the crux of Mike's case - but instead had ordered it on Ebay or something...after the fact. This confusion over the CD packaging and contents hinged on this witness in the US stating that he was confused by this whole thing, only the CD itself never was distributed publicly in the US.

More holes in that case than swiss cheese. So yeah, there were admonishments from the bench after it all unraveled.

But back to the filing itself, it felt like Mike was unloading a lot of bile and resentment on Brian and even more unbelievably, on Al Jardine, who had nothing to do with the CD giveaway - Yet Mike's lawsuit spends more time than usual hammering away at Al.

And at any point up to the final appeals court rulings in 2010...Mike could have pulled the plug, especially after the admonishments over the questionable witness. But he didn't.
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« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2017, 08:33:14 AM »

Regarding the 2005 lawsuit and it's lack of mention in Mike's book, the reason it's a big deal is not just the obvious (ignoring something where Mike undoubtedly comes out looking bad), but also that Mike has at various points over the years taken various degrees of umbrage at the idea that he's litigious.

That particular lawsuit had the court using terms like "borderline frivolous", and a hallmark of someone who is known to be litigious is that they sometimes have their suits figuratively laughed out of court.

That 2005 lawsuit and it's lack of mention are also problematic because it seemed to be pursued with an unsettling amount of zeal. Trying multiple places of residences to justify the suit. Not to mention the court admonishing things like the legal team wonky witness/evidence (the "confused" guy that bought a CD on eBay), and so on.

I'd also argue that most damning thing against Mike (and his legal team) regarding that 2005 lawsuit is how it handled and characterized Al Jardine, who was not even a party to the suit. I found the language regarding Al in that lawsuit to be so inappropriate and out of line that I started to research whether someone can sue for libel based on information contained in a lawsuit. I was never able to determine a firm answer (it appeared to lean towards "no"), but if Al never spoke to Mike again based on what was put in that lawsuit, I'd understand Al's position. That Mike and his legal team wrote *that* about Al and then Al got on stage for C50 with Mike is frankly stunning.
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« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2017, 08:41:44 AM »

Granted, I've never once read or heard anyone say that Mike Love is the antichrist, I do believe for certain fans this is an exaggerated truth. 

Exactly, it's *exaggerated*.

So Mike claims some fans feel that way about him, most fans I would think would say that there are few if any fans that *actually* feel that way about him, and you are acknowledging that you've never seen or heard a fan say this and that it's an "exaggerated truth." If it's exaggerated and not actually the case, what's the point of trying to back up Mike's statement? It's hyperbolic.

I can come up with an "exaggerated" version of all sort of stuff the guys have done and said over the years. Remember that time Mike said Al was a total douchebag? Of course not; he never said that. But it's an *exaggerated version* of what Mike maybe thought of Al at various points over the years.

Normally, I'd say Mike maybe meant it hyperbolically. But he seems to have a persecution complex to some degree, and a self-serving (as most, but not all, are) autobiography is certainly the place where a persecution complex can run amok without any checks.

If Mike would offer something more like "I've said some hurtful and inflammatory things and I understand why some people don't like my attitude and position. Unfortunately, sometimes the criticisms have become excessive and personal. I should own up to my mistakes, but overzealous critics attacking me personally should also own up to what they've done", then I think there would be a lot more sympathy for Mike.

As previously mentioned, the Rolling Stone piece from a year or two back (the one with Jackie and Mike role-playing a Brian-Mike conversation) was the closest we've come to Mike being self-reflective and owning up to something, but even then he couldn't really do it. Someone even finally pointed out directly to Mike that he espouses the virtues of meditation as a calming device, yet Mike seems severely angry in interview after interview and in various instances over the years. Mike's response? He'd be *worse* if he didn't meditate. I appreciate the relative honesty at least on that one. It doesn't reflect well on him, but it's one of the few instances in which he's at least passively admitting he can be angry and would be even more angry and vitriolic under alternate circumstances.

Because truth can still be exaggerated.  
 
I'm not denying that Mike has had a hand in his poor reputation.  But, I don't think one can deny, especially on this board, the bias against Mike.  

That's what Mike's quote is referring to.  
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« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2017, 08:57:34 AM »

Ahh, here we go again, KDS. The bias against Mike especially on this board? So as this exists as an open forum where fans can sound off on whatever they want to discuss, would you rather have posts that are negative against Mike or his actions censored in some way? Some people were campaigning for exactly that, behind the scenes. This sh*t was already old a year ago, now it's just ridiculous.

KDS - Why did Mike's people lock down the comments section on Mike's YouTube videos? Is it all the toxicity from this board infecting the rest of the internet?

If I haven't said it enough already, consider there were efforts to try scrubbing this perceived negativity and bias off this board by individuals who will remain nameless, and when that failed time and time again, some even started sending and posting veiled threats of legal action, and then there was the still ongoing efforts to paint this forum as full of "Mike Bashing" and label it toxic.

News flash: If fans are allowed to talk and comment openly, and certain parties don't like what they're saying, maybe they should work on fixing and correcting what led to those fans feeling that way rather than trying to scuttle the outlets which fans have to voice their opinions without being censored...or in the case of Mike's YouTube channel and other social media, blocked entirely.
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« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2017, 08:59:13 AM »

Because truth can still be exaggerated.  
 
I'm not denying that Mike has had a hand in his poor reputation.  But, I don't think one can deny, especially on this board, the bias against Mike.  

That's what Mike's quote is referring to.  

Yes, truth can be exaggerated. But that fact is evidence *against* Mike's statement, not evidence supporting it.

And the idea that there's a bias against Mike gets back to the core of where many of the debates arise. "Bias" seems to imply some sort of prejudice, as if people are pre-judging Mike without ample information.

I would argue that's not the case, that almost all criticisms of Mike are either a direct result of something he's actually done or said, or an indirect result (e.g. the question of whether Mike deserves any benefit of the doubt anymore). And then, there is a scant amount of truly vile, personal attack sort of stuff, which doesn't even pertain to much of anything on this board. And, internet trolls spewing hatred is something *all* of the band members and most every public figure unfortunately has to deal with.

But no, I don't think fans are blindly going into every situation assuming the worst of Mike. I'm sure many if not most fans worry about or are suspicious when each instance of Mike speaking or writing comes up. But I think most every time some Mike interview, for instance, has come up and people criticize him for coming across like a tool, they're doing so *in response* to what Mike has said or done.

As I've often said, the criticism of Mike is sometimes redundant, no question. It's inherently so given how the man behaves. But redundant isn't the same as incorrect or invalid or biased.

I'm pretty well able to step back and be objective and look at how defensible or indefensible a person or thing can be regardless of how I feel about it, and I have to say that, objectively, Mike Love is a pretty indefensible character when it comes to most of the common criticisms of him.

Yes, if someone says Mike had zero talent and never contributed anything of worth to the band, then that's easily defensible. Mike made major, game-changing contributions in numerous ways to the band. But few, especially among hardcore fans on BB message boards, are making outlandish claims like that.

Perhaps most interesting to me is the assumption from those who defend Mike regarding C50 that those who complain about Mike ending the reunion must hate Mike and/or not like anything about him. I find that funny because the "C50 should have continued" argument is predicated *very strongly* on *wanting* Mike there. If someone didn't want Mike there, then Brian solo (especially with other BBs on stage with him) would be preferable. Those who criticize Mike for ending C50 are, by and large, saying they want Mike there and that he *adds* to the whole.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2017, 09:04:10 AM »

And at some point, I guess back to some notion of the original topic, hasn't it become painfully obvious that the actions of some of Mike's most vocal supporters and fans have ended up harming whatever cause they were trying to support in terms of defending Mike's actions against all the toxic bashers?

When it devolved into direct quotes from Mike being defended and parsed by trying to say Mike was misquoted or the publication of the quote was full of typos...most people with even a shred of common sense would call bullshit. If the defense of a direct quote includes suggesting the writer misquoted the person or it was sloppy reporting full of typos, it does no favors to the person being defended by that kind of convoluted logic.

To answer a previous KDS question, maybe Mike needs a new street team.
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« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2017, 09:13:54 AM »

Ahh, here we go again, KDS. The bias against Mike especially on this board? So as this exists as an open forum where fans can sound off on whatever they want to discuss, would you rather have posts that are negative against Mike or his actions censored in some way? Some people were campaigning for exactly that, behind the scenes. This sh*t was already old a year ago, now it's just ridiculous.

KDS - Why did Mike's people lock down the comments section on Mike's YouTube videos? Is it all the toxicity from this board infecting the rest of the internet?

If I haven't said it enough already, consider there were efforts to try scrubbing this perceived negativity and bias off this board by individuals who will remain nameless, and when that failed time and time again, some even started sending and posting veiled threats of legal action, and then there was the still ongoing efforts to paint this forum as full of "Mike Bashing" and label it toxic.

News flash: If fans are allowed to talk and comment openly, and certain parties don't like what they're saying, maybe they should work on fixing and correcting what led to those fans feeling that way rather than trying to scuttle the outlets which fans have to voice their opinions without being censored...or in the case of Mike's YouTube channel and other social media, blocked entirely.

If people want to bash Mike, that's one thing. 

But, what tiring is that, even when somebody tries to post something positive about Mike's contributions to The Beach Boys (ie. the thread Nate Ruvin started as a change of pace from the reaction, some of which was valid, to DIA '17), took less than a page to devolve into negativity. 

And, you know it goes both ways GF, you talk about an open forum all the time where people can discuss all things Beach Boys related, yet you make a point to shoot down or downplay any opinions where people, including myself, might actually try to defend Mike. 
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« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2017, 09:16:53 AM »

I would also argue, believe it or not, that Mike perhaps has realized or been told that his negativity towards Brian in interviews over the last several years (and to some extent the other Wilsons) has been excessive and unbecoming, and I've noticed less of "that type of interview" this year. Perhaps there are just less interviews this year in general or less puff pieces for local shows, or I'm just noticing things less. But we don't seem to have had a ton of "Brian's controlled" type of interviews this year.

Of course, instead we got the Stamos/McGrath single. Which raises a weird existential sort of question: As a fan and a human being, which is worse? Mike attacking Brian in interviews, or making singles like "Do It Again?" I guess as a human being I'd rather not see Brian continually and unfairly attacked, so I'd have to reluctantly go with the DIA single if I had to take one over the other.  LOL
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« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2017, 09:25:32 AM »

Ahh, here we go again, KDS. The bias against Mike especially on this board? So as this exists as an open forum where fans can sound off on whatever they want to discuss, would you rather have posts that are negative against Mike or his actions censored in some way? Some people were campaigning for exactly that, behind the scenes. This sh*t was already old a year ago, now it's just ridiculous.

KDS - Why did Mike's people lock down the comments section on Mike's YouTube videos? Is it all the toxicity from this board infecting the rest of the internet?

If I haven't said it enough already, consider there were efforts to try scrubbing this perceived negativity and bias off this board by individuals who will remain nameless, and when that failed time and time again, some even started sending and posting veiled threats of legal action, and then there was the still ongoing efforts to paint this forum as full of "Mike Bashing" and label it toxic.

News flash: If fans are allowed to talk and comment openly, and certain parties don't like what they're saying, maybe they should work on fixing and correcting what led to those fans feeling that way rather than trying to scuttle the outlets which fans have to voice their opinions without being censored...or in the case of Mike's YouTube channel and other social media, blocked entirely.

If people want to bash Mike, that's one thing. 

But, what tiring is that, even when somebody tries to post something positive about Mike's contributions to The Beach Boys (ie. the thread Nate Ruvin started as a change of pace from the reaction, some of which was valid, to DIA '17), took less than a page to devolve into negativity. 

And, you know it goes both ways GF, you talk about an open forum all the time where people can discuss all things Beach Boys related, yet you make a point to shoot down or downplay any opinions where people, including myself, might actually try to defend Mike. 

KDS - It's called a discussion. Open forums encourage fans to react and respond, and to disagree with each other. You seem to not be in favor of other fans, not just me but since you mentioned me specifically, offering a reply or debate to what you say.

Should those who don't agree with your points be censored if they post reasons why they disagree with your comments or take issue with something Mike says or does? That's what some people wanted in the name of positivity.

If you want that, you know where to go. This open forum isn't Mike's YouTube page or social media where comments are blocked in advance.
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« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2017, 09:25:43 AM »

I would also argue, believe it or not, that Mike perhaps has realized or been told that his negativity towards Brian in interviews over the last several years (and to some extent the other Wilsons) has been excessive and unbecoming, and I've noticed less of "that type of interview" this year. Perhaps there are just less interviews this year in general or less puff pieces for local shows, or I'm just noticing things less. But we don't seem to have had a ton of "Brian's controlled" type of interviews this year.

Of course, instead we got the Stamos/McGrath single. Which raises a weird existential sort of question: As a fan and a human being, which is worse? Mike attacking Brian in interviews, or making singles like "Do It Again?" I guess as a human being I'd rather not see Brian continually and unfairly attacked, so I'd have to reluctantly go with the DIA single if I had to take one over the other.  LOL

I think the DIA does far less harm.  Other than the fact that Mike's band is apparently using that arrangement at BB shows, per a review on the BW Board, the single has already been largely forgotten.  

I think a pointless remake does far less harm to the relationship between Mike and Brian.  Maybe, Mike released that the bottom of the hourglass is much more full than the top, and wants to repair his relationship with Brian on a personal level, and saying things like he did in interviews wouldn't help.  
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