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Author Topic: Quentin Tarantino Prepping New Movie Tackling Manson Murders  (Read 10679 times)
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2019, 08:21:21 PM »

I think the thing that makes it "not a Manson movie" is that the Mansonistic elements of the plot are not there per se, or to act as a telling of a Manson story, but so to be emblematic of what was happening in Hollywood.  Joan Didion's disquieting piece in "The White Album" about how the Manson murders were a sort of inevitable manifestation of the growing paranoia and discomfort in LA in the very late sixties is instructive to the conceit of the plot of the film; the movie isn't a Manson movie because its adjacency to Manson is not necessary to illustrate the tableau that Tarantino set up.  "The 60s" had to end--it was in fact untenable, and even without the Manson murders, it was still a violent end, no less full of dread without the Manson murders than with them, I think.

And I think that Tarantino brought some of that into the film as a convenient, satisfying, and highly symbolic way to say, you know, screw those people that ruined the 60s?  Not just the Manson family, but all of the many people and forces that could be accused of desecrating the experience of the ideal 60s Los Angeles that we all know wasn't real, but at one time was more real than it is now?
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« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2019, 09:03:45 PM »

Saw the movie the other night. Such brilliant filmmaking that truly works on multiple levels.   At its most basic, it's a sendup of spaghetti Westerns (with a specific nod to 1968's "Once Upon a Time in the West") with the classic down-on-his-luck hero (DiCaprio) and his faithful sidekick (Pitt) in a western boomtown (Hollywood) taking on the gang of outlaws (Manson family) terrorizing the locals.  Truly inspired idea for a film.  The premise itself is ingenious, really.  And then throw in Tarantino's obvious love for the period and obsessive nostalgia for a better, more magical Hollywood... wow.  If anything ever truly deserved the Oscar for Best Picture, this is it.
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« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2019, 09:27:16 PM »

Still haven't seen it yet, but will very soon...

And I was literally thrilled beyond words to randomly hear the soundtrack...They have original KHJ airchecks specifically of Real Don Steele as part of the song. The one I heard was Steele doing his usual *brilliant* intro to "Mrs. Robinson", and I literally had no idea the soundtrack was going to feature original KHJ recordings, no less the great Don Steele! His intro featured a classic Steele-ism, the phrase "Simon and Garfunkeling" used as a verb. Love it.

Anyone who knows me knows that for the past 15+ years going back to the old Smile board I've been a KHJ fanatic, in fact a few present and past posters have even gotten some CDR's from my neck of the woods. Check out Real Don Steele, beyond the movie, along with the other classic KHJ hosts like Robert W. Morgan, Humble Harve, Charlie Tuna, Bobby Tripp...it's the best damn radio you'll ever hear, KHJ in the 1960's.

Hearing that soundtrack took the movie up a thousand notches of anticipation for me after the lukewarm media reviews.

Reminded me too of buying the Pulp Fiction soundtrack prior to the movie's release, and loving the music but also trying to decipher what all the dialogue meant.  Grin

EDIT: The soundtrack itself deserves a Grammy, or Oscar, or whatever else...it's pretty amazing in that the majority of it is made from original KHJ radio broadcasts and airchecks, so you get to hear what the music sounded like live on AM radio, with jingles and all. Absolutely brilliant.

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« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2019, 01:07:06 AM »

Hearing that soundtrack took the movie up a thousand notches of anticipation for me after the lukewarm media reviews.

Its rating on Metacritic is 85%.
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« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2019, 07:45:06 AM »

I saw this a few nights ago and I can't believe how people get sucked in by this hack Tarantino. This film is all over the place and there's really no story. It's like people are afraid to critique him because he's so hip. He takes the worst elements of past moviemaking and thinks he's elevating them to art. His depiction of Bruce Lee is pathetic and dead wrong, from the hairstyle to the attitude. There are these long scenes on the set of Lancer, a sh*t show from the late '60's that are downright confounding. I know this period of Hollywood very well and there is a great movie you could make about it , but this isn't it.
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« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2019, 10:00:09 AM »

I saw this a few nights ago and I can't believe how people get sucked in by this hack Tarantino. This film is all over the place and there's really no story. It's like people are afraid to critique him because he's so hip. He takes the worst elements of past moviemaking and thinks he's elevating them to art. His depiction of Bruce Lee is pathetic and dead wrong, from the hairstyle to the attitude. There are these long scenes on the set of Lancer, a sh*t show from the late '60's that are downright confounding. I know this period of Hollywood very well and there is a great movie you could make about it , but this isn't it.

Tarantino is not a documentary filmmaker. He's substantially re-written and revised historical events in three of his last four movies.

"All over the place" and "no story" are critiques that I've heard leveled at some of the greatest movies ever made, so I have a very difficult time with those kinds of remarks. I remember sitting with a group of people watching There Will Be Blood in the theatre and heard one friend turn to another after an hour and say, "Is there any plot here?" I thought, you are watching one of the greatest movies of the last ten years, and this is your reaction?
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« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2019, 10:27:47 AM »

Still haven't seen it yet, but will very soon...

And I was literally thrilled beyond words to randomly hear the soundtrack...They have original KHJ airchecks specifically of Real Don Steele as part of the song. The one I heard was Steele doing his usual *brilliant* intro to "Mrs. Robinson", and I literally had no idea the soundtrack was going to feature original KHJ recordings, no less the great Don Steele! His intro featured a classic Steele-ism, the phrase "Simon and Garfunkeling" used as a verb. Love it.

Anyone who knows me knows that for the past 15+ years going back to the old Smile board I've been a KHJ fanatic, in fact a few present and past posters have even gotten some CDR's from my neck of the woods. Check out Real Don Steele, beyond the movie, along with the other classic KHJ hosts like Robert W. Morgan, Humble Harve, Charlie Tuna, Bobby Tripp...it's the best damn radio you'll ever hear, KHJ in the 1960's.

Hearing that soundtrack took the movie up a thousand notches of anticipation for me after the lukewarm media reviews.

Reminded me too of buying the Pulp Fiction soundtrack prior to the movie's release, and loving the music but also trying to decipher what all the dialogue meant.  Grin

EDIT: The soundtrack itself deserves a Grammy, or Oscar, or whatever else...it's pretty amazing in that the majority of it is made from original KHJ radio broadcasts and airchecks, so you get to hear what the music sounded like live on AM radio, with jingles and all. Absolutely brilliant.




Agree! The KHJ bits  are a genius add.
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« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2019, 12:17:30 PM »

I saw this a few nights ago and I can't believe how people get sucked in by this hack Tarantino. This film is all over the place and there's really no story. It's like people are afraid to critique him because he's so hip. He takes the worst elements of past moviemaking and thinks he's elevating them to art. His depiction of Bruce Lee is pathetic and dead wrong, from the hairstyle to the attitude. There are these long scenes on the set of Lancer, a sh*t show from the late '60's that are downright confounding. I know this period of Hollywood very well and there is a great movie you could make about it , but this isn't it.

Not everyone is going to love every movie.  And that's fine.  Movies are like music, different strokes for different folks.  I actually don't care for most of Tarantino's films and frankly thought he had peaked with Reservoir Dogs.

With that said, the Lancer scenes are essential to this film as they not only help establish the Hollywood Western motif but also the Western cliché of the down-on-his-luck hero regaining his confidence in anticipation of the final showdown. 

I just can't get over what a staggeringly original, brilliant film this is.  Tarantino obviously latched on to the idea of the Manson family living on the Spahn ranch, the setting of many Hollywood Westerns.  Tarantino's genius here is in asking, "What if the Manson crowd actually collided with the world of Hollywood Westerns?"
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« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2019, 01:16:13 AM »

This video was posted by the L.A. Times:


L.A. in the Time of Charles Manson (Full version)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnkGrK7dtb0


Gregg Jakobson also gets interviewed and of course Dennis gets talked about.
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« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2019, 08:04:10 PM »

I know this has hardly anything to do with The Beach Boys but I must say that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was another freaking masterwork by Tarantino! I went with my wife and two friends (a husband and wife) to see it and while they were not impressed, I walked out of the theater awestruck. And the awe has only grown in the time since. Really would like go see it again soon.

But my question has more to do with the soundtrack. Does anybody know what version of the Stones' "Out of Time" was used in that great scene near the end? It could possibly be the original version from Aftermath but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I have a crap memory but I feel like it was the version with strings from Metamorphosis. Anybody know?

Also, when Denny was mentioned during the movie, of course I had to lean over to my wife and say something like, "yes, it's that Dennis Wilson." Which I'm sure she had already put together in her mind, but I love showing off The Beach Boys connection to anything and everything.
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« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2019, 08:26:11 PM »

Strings version, and it was absolutely perfect for that scene
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« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2019, 07:42:59 AM »

Brilliant, funny, sweet film.  Have seen it twice; excited about seeing it again.  The first time I just took it all in.  The second, I was able to take the ride with the characters and notice things I missed.  One was Cliff and Rick's drunken conversation about legendary action movie director William Witney.  Witney's son is a friend of mine and I got a huge kick out of texting him - "You have to see this now - they're talking about your Dad!"

Two emotional musical moments stand out for me among many:

1. California Dreamin' - a montage as the day - and the second act finish - as Tim Olyphant as actor James Stacy gets on his motorcycle and drives away from the studio... foreshadowing a later event in his life

2. Out of Time - another montage in the third act.  Musically and lyrically, a major emotional wallop for me.

LANCER was a hip and edgy western series for its time - so different from contemporary traditional western shows like GUNSMOKE, BIG VALLEY, THE VIRGINIAN, BONANZA, etc.

A perfect masterpiece.  A treasure.
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« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2019, 08:15:57 AM »

Stones OUT OF TIME from their 1967 'Flowers' catch-all L.P.  That was a song they gave to Chris Farlowe

critics say the movie doesn't have a plot, they'll never get it.  It worked just terrifically for me as a fairy-tale, justifying its title

John Dykstra (yes THE John Dykstra) did the special effects, like when Bruce Lee left an indelible impression on a car door
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« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2019, 09:00:47 AM »

An added plus for me is that the movie kind of kickstarted me into poking around into all the crazy stuff happening at the time, especially in terms of Manson, and how immersed he was in the scene, which of course, really makes a lot of Bugliosi's tight little story farcical.

Read an interesting story about Mark Lindsay and Terry coming up with Good Thing, sitting on the couch in Cielo, under the beam where Sharon would be tied up. And Mark walking into the kitchen one time while Terry and Dennis were conferring with some 'Suits' and seeing Charlie sitting on the floor against the fridge.

It also has me really looking into Mama Cass connections. An aside, I read that she swapped her gold record of Monday, Monday with Bruce for his Good Vibrations award, anybody know if that's true?
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« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2019, 06:50:32 AM »

Brilliant, funny, sweet film.  Have seen it twice; excited about seeing it again.  The first time I just took it all in.  The second, I was able to take the ride with the characters and notice things I missed.  One was Cliff and Rick's drunken conversation about legendary action movie director William Witney.  Witney's son is a friend of mine and I got a huge kick out of texting him - "You have to see this now - they're talking about your Dad!"

Two emotional musical moments stand out for me among many:

1. California Dreamin' - a montage as the day - and the second act finish - as Tim Olyphant as actor James Stacy gets on his motorcycle and drives away from the studio... foreshadowing a later event in his life

2. Out of Time - another montage in the third act.  Musically and lyrically, a major emotional wallop for me.

LANCER was a hip and edgy western series for its time - so different from contemporary traditional western shows like GUNSMOKE, BIG VALLEY, THE VIRGINIAN, BONANZA, etc.

A perfect masterpiece.  A treasure.

Completely agree! Just saw it yesterday and I can't stop thinking about it. I'm beginning to realize that it may be a favorite movie of mine now.

That 'Out Of Time' sequence was just phenomenal. And that "mechanical asshole" line had the entire theatre in tears laughing LOL

It's a phenomenal and engaging work of art, in my opinion. Funny, sad, outrageous, colorful. I love it and am kinda thinking about going to see it again before it leaves theaters.
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« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2019, 07:00:00 AM »

Loved the film.  That ending was cathartic, though sad too as it wasn't (obviously) what really happened. 
Repeated viewings are in order.  Good on yer, Quentin.
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« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2019, 07:33:38 AM »


"All over the place" and "no story" are critiques that I've heard leveled at some of the greatest movies ever made, so I have a very difficult time with those kinds of remarks. I remember sitting with a group of people watching There Will Be Blood in the theatre and heard one friend turn to another after an hour and say, "Is there any plot here?" I thought, you are watching one of the greatest movies of the last ten years, and this is your reaction?
... yeah. You've just described my experience walking out of just about any of my favorite films.
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« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2019, 06:18:40 AM »

I went to movies in San Francisco, which I got back recently, to see this film. I give it 8/10. To begin with preface, I'm the type who doesn't care the slightest about these events, Sharon Tate means zero to this film viewer. It's sad she got what she got, little baby she bore but, I'm not attached/ angry about these 1969 events as many (say, youtubers with saying "possessed" things like "Hope he rots in hell". Funnily, nobody ever mentions the girls, so-called "Family" who ACTUALLY did these brutal murders. Instead, people discuss who's "the prettiest Manson girl").

Now the review. I didn't read anybody's, you'll excuse me if there's points being repeated written by other posters. 1st, I paid attn to music in car when they drive & thru the film. It matches, I think, lyrically to scenes depicted. But I don't give fig about lyrics, it's great song picks. Quentin, again, doesn't disappoint in music choice.

Actors - Brad Pitt is brilliant in each scene. Pitch-perfect casting choice. Everybody in supportings fits too. The guy playing Polanski did well in mannerisms dept: gimmicky & jittery. The little girl. Al Pacino. Luke Perry speaking with Leonardo in film-within-film excelled, natural. Kurt Russell. Dakota Fanning.

Big exception will be Leonardo Di Caprio who is, without doubt, miscast. He dressed like cowboy? Looked like idiot. Didn't make sense to see it. Boo! Besides, he tends to play his characters as if he plays them, doesn't live. He should better relegate to legitimate stage. Broadway etc.

Margot Robbie, when she went to cinema to see her latest film - they showed real Sharon doing comedy fight with the other girl (Asian of course) - looked much like Sharon, thanks to make-up people. & when she danced at party etc., it's easy to imagine Sharon being like that. Little caveat: Sharon is prettier than Margot.
Otherwise, the actress fit in well. Btw, didn't see her in previous films, "Once Upon..." is debut film I'd seen featuring her.

Quentin's film again shines at dialogs, there's many funny scenes, each Manson Fam scene got funny lines.  I frankly began to suspect that Quentin humiliates these people when Brad super-easily started beating their precious fam member, some guy who flatted his tire. The girls all gather, stand like true losers, total tools shouting at Brad, some girl even asked to call Tex, the guy riding horse smwr in backyard. But nobody even does anything to defeat Brad,they just shout in their togetherness, super-loyally. That's...it. Brad is like "Heh, shout all you like. I don't give flying fig, you stupid witches". Brad looked reaaally cool in each fight scene.

Such as with Bruce Lee. Again, you could easily picture real Bruce Lee to be about ego, smug, self-absorbed. In films he may look noble & into classy fights with classy-looking tricks, very serious to teach fight as art. But, posters where he stands with classic stand, black trousers & shirtless, you can see that he got quite star diseased. Thus, the actor who played him in fact paid nice credible tribute to him. Bruce's fam should be proud that he gets the nod in this day & age & who knows this film may get people to revisit or seek his films 1st time.
Brad again shows who's the boss in this fight, that he may be forgotten, old but still can kick like pro.

Final scenes = sheer coolness paired with hilarity. Generally like action in QT's films. Quentin spits at past & changes scenario by poking fun at Manson's gang, he lets loose.

Here, Sharon Tate doesn't die, folks. Instead, the would-be murderers end up victims. & during it, Leonardo just sat in pool rehearsing with headphones his lines to the next TV flick. & what does Sharon do? She meets these her neighbors that nearly got killed. Ha! Clever script with humor & cool bits.

L.A. is captured beautifully. Ritzy yet dishevelled city. Colorful film. Re: BBs connection - Charlie gets to the Tate house seeking desperately Dennis & Terry Melcher (I think, seen it 2 weeks back). Then gives rather interested look at Sharon when she stood at the door listening to the guys talking. Her friend said Terry (&/ or Dennis) don't live here, it's Tate house. Didn't rmbr if Charlie looked seriously mean when he got such answer. Not bad if too short acting but isn't convincing & frankly, that guy playing Manson doesn't look like leader who'd generate interest amongst youth, bring people around him. Maybe again, Quentin tried to paint these criminals in laughable way, that they look like buncha losers. I didn't see his interviews to back it - it's this viewer's theory.
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« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2019, 06:33:47 AM »

Sold! Okay, I'll go and see it while it's still in the theaters
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« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2019, 10:49:03 AM »

I've seen this wonderful film three times so far... to answer an earlier question, I can confirm the version of OUT OF TIME by the Rolling Stones used in the film is the stereo version with strings and had additional vocal overdubs, including a female vocalist buried in the mix.  I believe it was issued as a nine years later single in 1975:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp3FnulQ8R4
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« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2019, 08:47:52 PM »


Manson had ordered a group of his followers to attack the inhabitants of a house in the Benedict Canyon part of Los Angeles, believing it was owned by a record producer who earlier had rejected him.

COMMENT to rab2591:  Perhaps Quentin Tarantino should do his homework. This old theory has been debunked by several eyewitnesses statements telling that when Manson appeared at the Benedict Canyon house, weeks before the murders took place, he was informed that Terry had moved out. Manson's motives for ordering the murders was motivated out of fear of the Black Panthers involvement in a drug deal gone bad.
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« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2019, 10:31:32 PM »

Perhaps Quentin Tarantino should do his homework. This old theory has been debunked by several eyewitnesses statements telling that when Manson appeared at the Benedict Canyon house, weeks before the murders took place, he was informed that Terry had moved out.

Which is exactly what happens in the film. Indeed, that's precisely what's happening the one and only time Manson appears. The bit where Tarantino appears not to have done his homework comes later.
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« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2019, 10:37:08 PM »

Perhaps Quentin Tarantino should do his homework. This old theory has been debunked by several eyewitnesses statements telling that when Manson appeared at the Benedict Canyon house, weeks before the murders took place, he was informed that Terry had moved out.

Which is exactly what happens in the film. Indeed, that's precisely what's happening the one and only time Manson appears. The bit where Tarantino appears not to have done his homework comes later.
Yes, when he deliberately made Sharon Tate live (obviously he knows by now it ain't truth). Thus film ends happily in such way.
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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2019, 05:54:57 PM »

One word: FLAMETHROWER!!!  Pirate Pirate Pirate Pirate
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« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2019, 07:17:11 PM »

One word: FLAMETHROWER!!!  Pirate Pirate Pirate Pirate
Ha, yes, forgot. Di Caprio's character did it to end the crazy girl's screaming, she wouldn't die after dog biting her everywhere literally & being punched by Brad's character. So when Rick sat in pool rehearsing his lines via tape recorder & headphones, she ran away from house into pool & STILL kept screaming. Her jumping into water shook Di Caprio & he got scared like chicken & went into house with super powerful stick generating fire that he used during some scene in his previous TV work as Rick Dalton, in the beginning of "Once Upon...". He opened fire at that super-tough-to-kill girl & she burned like paper but, I think at 1st she still screamed or did it at last shut her up? Anyway, such OTT scene. Can't imagine everybody in it playing with straight face, bet the cast laughed 1st few takes.
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