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Author Topic: "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again": opinions nearly four years after release  (Read 4995 times)
Howie Edelson
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2017, 11:17:55 AM »

I never understood doing the whole, "This isn't as good as it was supposed to be." Y'know? Dig what you wanna dig. I think EVERY posthumous DW song that's seen the light of day is a gift. I also don't think that the "hype" was any bigger for that song than, say, "Carry Me Home." The fact of the matter is that it IS that good and it IS that important. I remember marveling with Stebbins about how MODERN (read: timeless) that B-section was. We were amazed at how something so beautiful and unique (that INSANELY brave vocal, that top melody line) hadn't happened until then -- and hasn't since. It remains cutting edge today. Nobody sings like that. And it it retains its power because he was at the first of several tops of his game -- and it was all f ucking power. The voice, the composition -- it happened at the moment when he was loved more than he ever was for the rest of his life -- and his life was as good as it would ever be RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT.

True Health.

WIBNTLA is the fingerprint and soundtrack to as sane and good as it ever got for this guy. It's major, on like, 19 levels. If feel dumb even trying to defend it.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 11:49:18 AM by Howie Edelson » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2017, 11:53:42 AM »

I didn't become a Beach Boys until late 2014, so I never had to deal with the hype surrounding the "mysteriousness" of the track prior to its release. I guess its for the best, as I have a tendency to hype these kind of "unreleased/unheard" tracks way out of proportion (Brian's "Just an Imitation" and the Beatles' "Carnival of Light" come to mind). With that said, WIBNTLA is my all-time favorite Dennis track, and my fourth-favorite Beach Boys song ever (behind IJWMFTT, Til I Die, and Surf's Up). The shelving of WIBNTLA and SMiLE have forever cemented the Beach Boys as THE group with the biggest lost potential. Jack was right, they blew it...
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2017, 12:08:29 PM »

I never understood doing the whole, "This isn't as good as it was supposed to be." Y'know? Dig what you wanna dig. I think EVERY posthumous DW song that's seen the light of day is a gift. I also don't think that the "hype" was any bigger for that song than, say, "Carry Me Home." The fact of the matter is that it IS that good and it IS that important. I remember marveling with Stebbins about how MODERN (read: timeless) that B-section was. We were amazed at how something so beautiful and unique (that INSANELY brave vocal, that top melody line) hadn't happened until then -- and hasn't since. It remains cutting edge today. Nobody sings like that. And it it retains its power because he was at the first of several tops of his game -- and it was all f ucking power. The voice, the composition -- it happened at the moment when he was loved more than he ever was for the rest of his life -- and his life was as good as it would ever be RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT.

True Health.

WIBNTLA is the fingerprint and soundtrack to as sane and good as it ever got for this guy. It's major, on like, 19 levels. If feel dumb even trying to defend it.


+1
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urbanite
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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2017, 12:28:06 PM »

 I like the song, the lead vocal and background vocals are very good.  I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2017, 04:22:38 PM »

it's one of Dennis Wilson's best songs, absolutely amazing and stunning, it's a crime that it took this long to get a release, it should have been released in 1993 on the Good Vibrations set. Dennis also has another very pretty song still in the vaults called Behold The Night which absolutely needs to come out and also Carry Me Home

OK OK  as no one else has followed up on this... how about "Behold The Night" Huh care to talk about this one... never heard it, know it was supposed to be on Dennis' 1971 solo LP that never happened.. never heard anyone talk about before...

Details man, Details!!
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Marcella Wilson Love
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2017, 04:44:17 PM »

I have Behold The Night but I understand it's very rare and only a few people have it so I won't be leaking it onto YouTube because I dont wanna get in trouble or giving it to anybody, all i'll say is it's beautiful and typical Dennis
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2017, 05:19:36 PM »

I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."

You have a fear of heights? Huh
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2017, 06:51:31 PM »

My opinion hasn't changed from when I first heard it:

The production is great and the lead is a career best vocal contender for Dennis.  That said, I'm not particularly impressed with the song.  It's nowhere near as good as most of his work was IMO.
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« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2017, 02:44:49 AM »

I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."

You have a fear of heights? Huh

Haha, I love the song and could care less if the lyrics were "in a ditch behind a dumpster, making love again".
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« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2017, 03:04:31 AM »

I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."

You have a fear of heights? Huh

Haha, I love the song and could care less if the lyrics were "in a ditch behind a dumpster, making love again".

LOL
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2017, 06:13:29 AM »

I like the song, the lead vocal and background vocals are very good.  I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."

The Beach Boys, collectively and solo, have a pretty strong catalog of iffy nad/or wonky lyrics. I can't imagine how that line is particularly problematic. I guess one could argue it's a bit hippy-dippy or something. But as Howie said, it's actually uplifting to know Dennis was at a peak in life and well-being, and a line like that reinforces that. What else should he have said? "High on a hill, f****ing again?"

I've always found it more undercutting when we have to continually refer to excellent potential Dennis solo material under *asinine* titles like "Poops" and "Hubba Hubba." Want someone to take Dennis's solo stuff seriously? Maybe not even mentioning the possibility of releasing it as "Dennis Wilson Poops" is a good place to start.

That all being said, we all have weird pet peeve lyrics that bug us. Sometimes it's more of a phonetic sort of thing, or how the lyric sounds, that's more problematic than the actual content. I'd say Brian's lyrics on "Sherry She Needs Me", the infamous "Sherry don't hate her guts" line, is a good example. It contextually actually makes total sense, and is probably how the "speaker" of the song might say it, but it just sort of *sounds* odd when sung in a song like that.

Who was it here who was super annoyed by the opening line to Al's "Don't Fight the Sea", the "I was out in a boat, that was gently afloat" line? I didn't find that line particularly extra egregious, but it was kind of funny and understandable enough that someone else was so annoyed by it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:17:15 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2017, 06:23:07 AM »

I didn't become a Beach Boys until late 2014, so I never had to deal with the hype surrounding the "mysteriousness" of the track prior to its release. I guess its for the best, as I have a tendency to hype these kind of "unreleased/unheard" tracks way out of proportion (Brian's "Just an Imitation" and the Beatles' "Carnival of Light" come to mind). With that said, WIBNTLA is my all-time favorite Dennis track, and my fourth-favorite Beach Boys song ever (behind IJWMFTT, Til I Die, and Surf's Up). The shelving of WIBNTLA and SMiLE have forever cemented the Beach Boys as THE group with the biggest lost potential. Jack was right, they blew it...

It's worth noting though, that "Just an Imitation" and "Carnival of Light" are two pretty different cases. In the case of the former, we have very little info on the song at all, right? Vaguely apocryphal stories about whether a recording could even still exist.

Whereas, "Carnival of Light" is a known quantity that people have heard, and has been described in some fair detail by folks like Mark Lewisohn. I've never understood the clamor for "Carnival of Light" going all the way back to the "Anthology" era where some fans lobbied to jettison like 10 or 15 other tracks to make room for it, even when we have some pretty strong indications that if or when the song is ever released, it will ultimately end up being skipped about as often as fans skip "Revolution 9" when listening to the White Album. The only truly annoying thing about the upcoming "Sgt. Pepper" deluxe boxed set is reading fans moan and groan about "Carnival of Light" not being included, as if the band running through outtakes of the other 13-15 *songs* on the set isn't about *ten kajillion* times more interesting.
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Matt H
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« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2017, 06:30:07 AM »

I have Behold The Night but I understand it's very rare and only a few people have it so I won't be leaking it onto YouTube because I dont wanna get in trouble or giving it to anybody, all i'll say is it's beautiful and typical Dennis

Is it a ballad or a rocker?
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B.E.
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« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2017, 06:49:06 AM »

I have Behold The Night but I understand it's very rare and only a few people have it so I won't be leaking it onto YouTube because I dont wanna get in trouble or giving it to anybody, all i'll say is it's beautiful and typical Dennis

Is it a ballad or a rocker?

And how complete is it? Does it sound fully produced and ready for release? Or is it a piano demo?

Edit: Found this description from Alan Boyd, "BEHOLD THE NIGHT was recorded at the same session, 7/7/71.  It's short, sweet, and very, very pretty. "Moon's out tonight, tonight I know you will behold the night, mmmmm, it's still...." http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,277.msg27739.html#msg27739
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 09:53:32 AM by B.E. » Logged
kermit27
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« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2017, 07:16:58 AM »

I like the song, the lead vocal and background vocals are very good.  I can't stand the line in the song, "high up on a hill, making love again."


Who was it here who was super annoyed by the opening line to Al's "Don't Fight the Sea", the "I was out in a boat, that was gently afloat" line? I didn't find that line particularly extra egregious, but it was kind of funny and understandable enough that someone else was so annoyed by it.

Ah... But that's a cover.  I agree that it is still a bad line, though.
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« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2017, 09:29:11 AM »

...the infamous "Sherry don't hate her guts" line...

Might be my favorite line in the song! The lyrics are so naive. But they are honest. To me, it's makes them memorable.

As for WIBNTLA, I'm also not a big fan of the line "high up on a hill, making love again", but that's okay. I don't hate it. It fits the song. I love everything else, especially the line "whoever said the (very) first lie" and the lines about knowing it's okay to cry (men and women).

I truly don't understand how this wasn't released until MiC. It doesn't make sense. I can almost understand waiting to release Carry Me Home, but that too should have been released by now. I think WIBNTLA is a GREAT song (that should have been released in the early 70s) and I feel exactly the same about it now as I did in 2013 when I first heard it.

Edit: Is it my favorite Dennis song? No, but I think it's better than most of the BBs material of that period. Therefore, I was not let down upon its release.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 10:27:32 AM by B.E. » Logged
Bicyclerider
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« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2017, 10:36:14 AM »

I still would count it as Dennis' best vocal, as I did however many years ago when I first heard it (1999 Eddie? Alan?). His voice is very pure and powerful, and absolutely in it's peak form. Hearing it now just frustrates me that there aren't more from him while that vocal range was at his disposal.

Definitely not his best composition or production, those came later...but it is clearly a shame it didn't see a 1971 release.

I find it curious and a little disappointing that at this time that Dennis's vocals were at their peak, he was giving away vocals on his songs - like Fourth of July, and then later with Steamboat and Only With You and It's a New Day (perhaps past his best shape voice but nevertheless so much better than later)
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« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2017, 10:52:58 AM »

I still would count it as Dennis' best vocal, as I did however many years ago when I first heard it (1999 Eddie? Alan?). His voice is very pure and powerful, and absolutely in it's peak form. Hearing it now just frustrates me that there aren't more from him while that vocal range was at his disposal.

Definitely not his best composition or production, those came later...but it is clearly a shame it didn't see a 1971 release.

I find it curious and a little disappointing that at this time that Dennis's vocals were at their peak, he was giving away vocals on his songs - like Fourth of July, and then later with Steamboat and Only With You and It's a New Day (perhaps past his best shape voice but nevertheless so much better than later)

I understand it from the point of view that the main songwriter of a group such as the BBs needs to divvy up leads for the benefit of the group. Also, apparently, Dennis simply liked Carl's voice singing his songs. That said, it is very disappointing to me that Dennis doesn't have a single lead vocal on Surfs Up, Holland, In Concert, and KTSA. Furthermore, songs like Fourth of July and I've Got A Friend were never finished. In the end, Dennis couldn't have known that his voice would change in 1974 and that he'd really lose it by the early 80s. It's just a shame that the group didn't appreciate and support his work more, particularly in the early-mid 70s when he was quite prolific (and Brian wasn't).
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« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2017, 11:06:11 AM »



I truly don't understand how this wasn't released until MiC. It doesn't make sense. I can almost understand waiting to release Carry Me Home, but that too should have been released by now. I think WIBNTLA is a GREAT song (that should have been released in the early 70s) and I feel exactly the same about it now as I did in 2013 when I first heard it.

Edit: Is it my favorite Dennis song? No, but I think it's better than most of the BBs material of that period. Therefore, I was not let down upon its release.

Sometimes I almost wonder if this stuff wasn't (and in the case of Carry Me Home currently still isn't) released for all this time because perhaps for some time, some band members might actually have been embarrassed to reconcile the undeniable fact of how much the band royally f*cked up by not releasing this stuff MUCH sooner. Releasing these songs - and having them get heaps of praise - might only have magnified that embarrassment, not to mention increasing Denny's legend, in the eyes of fans, and perhaps make the bandmates feel even worse.

I mean, it's practically beyond belief that these songs spent decades in the can, considering the quality of the material; another case of "this could only happen with The Beach Boys". I would tend to think the decision could be considered highly regrettable in hindsight (and thus an embarrassing mistake that perhaps they didn't want to be reminded of) by some of the band members. Just a theory.

I give Al, for example, props for talking about regretting that Denny wasn't appreciated enough/taken more seriously on a spoken word track on the Hawthorne, CA CD. Maybe it took a certain distance from Denny's lifetime for some band members to want to go anywhere near the emotions that it might bring by releasing these songs, with the realization that the public would realize what a mindblowing gaffe it was to not release them, compounded by the even more mindblowing gaffe of instead choosing to release all sorts of substandard dreck in place of these tracks in the intervening years (while these tracks languished in the can).

As a fan, I've certainly thought about how, if Denny had gotten more recognition and respect as an artist in his lifetime - perhaps in part due to these tracks, had they seen release and success on BB studio albums  -  how maybe, just maybe, history could have turned out differently for him. If that thought even remotely crossed the minds of any band members - and I'd be surprised if it didn't at some point - I could see how the band might have avoided these tracks for years. It's just easier that way. Avoidance is a powerful drug.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:18:20 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2017, 11:29:57 AM »


Sometimes I almost wonder if this stuff wasn't (and in the case of Carry Me Home currently still isn't) released for all this time because perhaps for some time, some band members might actually have been embarrassed to reconcile the undeniable fact of how much the band royally f*cked up by not releasing this stuff MUCH sooner. Releasing these songs - and having them get heaps of praise - might only have magnified that embarrassment, not to mention increasing Denny's legend, in the eyes of fans, and perhaps make the bandmates feel even worse.


The band have always been notoriously difficult about "Brother era" unreleased tracks, although over the course of 20 years they obviously okayed a fair amount of the tracks spread across numerous releases.

It's probably one of the reasons something like "Hawthorne, CA" was easier to push through in 2001 compared to a 2-CD "Brother Rarities" sort of compilation.

In the specific case of WIBNTLA, as I'm sure most folks here remember, it was slated to be included on the 2007 "Warmth of the Sun" compilation, making it all the way to test pressings. I believe it was implied that a member of the band vetoed the track on that particular compilation.

Then of course only a year or two before MIC came out, a test pressing with the track was sold on eBay and a big thread on this board resulted from the buyer trying to strategize about what to do with it. I suppose that might have contributed to the "reputation" on this board of the track being so epic.
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« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2017, 11:31:56 AM »

That said, it is very disappointing to me that Dennis doesn't have a single lead vocal on Surfs Up, Holland, In Concert, and KTSA.

Well, as we all know, he doesn't have a lead on KTSA largely because he wasn't involved in the album much at all.

Though, every time in the 70s and 80s when they considered raiding the vaults for "old" stuff to put on "new" albums, one can always go back to the *DOZENS* of amazing tracks in the archives that they passed up.
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« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2017, 11:34:39 AM »

I still would count it as Dennis' best vocal, as I did however many years ago when I first heard it (1999 Eddie? Alan?). His voice is very pure and powerful, and absolutely in it's peak form. Hearing it now just frustrates me that there aren't more from him while that vocal range was at his disposal.

Definitely not his best composition or production, those came later...but it is clearly a shame it didn't see a 1971 release.

I find it curious and a little disappointing that at this time that Dennis's vocals were at their peak, he was giving away vocals on his songs - like Fourth of July, and then later with Steamboat and Only With You and It's a New Day (perhaps past his best shape voice but nevertheless so much better than later)

While I would certainly love to hear Dennis vocals on those songs (and indeed we got his later solo version of "Only With You"), and in particular I could imagine his "I'm Going Your Way" voice singing "It's a New Day", as both are somewhat similar.

But I can't imagine Dennis could have bettered Carl's vocals on "4th of July" and "Only With You." And it's to Dennis's credit that he (rightly in my opinion) would have picked the best vocalist to sing the song instead of trying to use some other criteria (who wrote it, who didn't have "enough" leads already, etc.) to pick the lead vocalist out.
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« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2017, 05:39:27 PM »

Relatively speaking, Im fairly new to BB fandom, so I didnt experience the build up and legend of WIBNTLA, but I think its a terrific song, and maybe Dennis's finest recorded lead vocal.
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« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2017, 09:06:51 PM »

I read an interview (forgot who said it) that said the reason dennis didnt have more songs come out sooner was all band politics. He didnt have anyone to fight for his songs to be put on albums  and the other guys didnt have anything to gain by putting his songs on instead of theirs.
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« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2017, 09:11:48 PM »

I read an interview (forgot who said it) that said the reason dennis didnt have more songs come out sooner was all band politics. He didnt have anyone to fight for his songs to be put on albums  and the other guys didnt have anything to gain by putting his songs on instead of theirs.

Another example of a band that couldnt stop shooting itself in the foot.  WIBNTLA sits on a shelf for 40 years while Take a Load Off Your Feet gets a proper release.
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