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636612 Posts in 25453 Topics by 3621 Members - Latest Member: rickyroma August 21, 2018, 02:27:51 PM
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Author Topic: Heard Another One on Sirrius XM Deep Tracks...  (Read 6050 times)
13thBB
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« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2017, 11:13:05 AM »

I think the trick is to listen WITHOUT bias. We are all hardcore BB fans on this forum. Personally, I love a song like Marcella but the reality is that a song like that isn't meant for public consumption. I can find a treasure on every single BB album but to the casual listener, they want another Pet Sounds or worse ... another 'Fun, Fun, Fun'. Obviously, in a way Mike was right to bitch about the "formula" because Brian's ambitious music, which created a pop masterpiece also likely doomed them to peaking at #50 or higher on the charts with each and every single. That was either because he started making music WAY too far out there or because he had a breakdown and left the band hanging and forced other members to contribute more than they were capable of doing.



I think you hit the nail on the head.  As much as I love the albums Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland, if I were to play those to casual or non fans, they'd likely shrug their shoulders.  However, I can throw on something like Sounds of Summer (featuring mostly their 60s hits), to a crowd with diverse music tastes, and it would go over well. 

What I do is test out the music on my 6 year old daughter. She ADORES the early stuff and sings along with hits and non hits and loves Pet Sound favorites like Sloop John B and God Only Knows ... and her favorite song is Vegetables, obviously for its quirks but when something like a Marcella or Break Away plays in the car she zones out. She loves the 80s and early 90s stuff, though. Come Go With Me, Getcha Back, Kokomo, Problem Child, and Crocodile Rock she knows every word to.

The average casual fan is basically a 6 year old child.  LOL
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« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2017, 11:33:50 AM »

I think the trick is to listen WITHOUT bias. We are all hardcore BB fans on this forum. Personally, I love a song like Marcella but the reality is that a song like that isn't meant for public consumption. I can find a treasure on every single BB album but to the casual listener, they want another Pet Sounds or worse ... another 'Fun, Fun, Fun'. Obviously, in a way Mike was right to bitch about the "formula" because Brian's ambitious music, which created a pop masterpiece also likely doomed them to peaking at #50 or higher on the charts with each and every single. That was either because he started making music WAY too far out there or because he had a breakdown and left the band hanging and forced other members to contribute more than they were capable of doing.



I think you hit the nail on the head.  As much as I love the albums Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland, if I were to play those to casual or non fans, they'd likely shrug their shoulders.  However, I can throw on something like Sounds of Summer (featuring mostly their 60s hits), to a crowd with diverse music tastes, and it would go over well. 

What I do is test out the music on my 6 year old daughter. She ADORES the early stuff and sings along with hits and non hits and loves Pet Sound favorites like Sloop John B and God Only Knows ... and her favorite song is Vegetables, obviously for its quirks but when something like a Marcella or Break Away plays in the car she zones out. She loves the 80s and early 90s stuff, though. Come Go With Me, Getcha Back, Kokomo, Problem Child, and Crocodile Rock she knows every word to.

The average casual fan is basically a 6 year old child.  LOL

It's like any band / artist that strays a bit from the mainstream.  Pink Floyd is my all time favorite band, but if I played any of their pyschadelic / experimental pre Dark Side of the Moon material for casual fans, they're usually unimpressed. 
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"There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference." - Steve Desper
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« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2017, 11:52:10 AM »

I think the trick is to listen WITHOUT bias. We are all hardcore BB fans on this forum. Personally, I love a song like Marcella but the reality is that a song like that isn't meant for public consumption. I can find a treasure on every single BB album but to the casual listener, they want another Pet Sounds or worse ... another 'Fun, Fun, Fun'. Obviously, in a way Mike was right to bitch about the "formula" because Brian's ambitious music, which created a pop masterpiece also likely doomed them to peaking at #50 or higher on the charts with each and every single. That was either because he started making music WAY too far out there or because he had a breakdown and left the band hanging and forced other members to contribute more than they were capable of doing.

Friends - #47
Blue Birds over the Mountain - #61
Break Away - #63
Add Some Music - #64
Cottonfield - #103
Long Promised Road - #89
Marcella - 110

Tom Petty

I Won't Back Down - #12
Free Fallin' - #7
Mary Jane's Last Dance - #14
American Girl - #9
You Don't Know How It Feels - #13

Now, I will throw this to member HeyJude who is 1,000 times more eloquent than I am... do you think it was easier for the BB to make it big during their era (60s) than it was for someone like Petty in the 80s and 90s? It seems like in 1963 there was a lot less to do than say in 1994 when Petty released Wildflowers. In the early 90s Petty had to compete with Michael Jackson, grunge, the rise of the internet and the improvements in movies and video games. Unless I am wrong, in 1965 there were only three channels on TV making the appearance of the boys on Sullivan a HUGE deal.

Again, I say all this as a die hard BB fan looking for discussion on this awesome board.

But is your argument about quality or popularity?  Because they are not the same thing.  I could list thousands of songs that charted higher than 63 but that doesn't mean that those songs are better than Break Away.  It just means that more people liked them.  Remember that song "Barbie Girl"?  It went to number one, despite being a complete piece of crap.  Chart positions are one thing; whether a song is good or not is a completely different issue.  (I'm not comparing Tom Petty to Aqua here, just using an extreme example to make a point). 

And as far as listening without bias goes, that's what I'm doing.  Yes, I'm a hardcore BB fan (as is everyone here) but I'm a hardcore fan BECAUSE they are SO GOOD.  I'm not a hardcore fan because I think they're really cute or cool or whatever.  It's because the music won me over in a way that no other music ever has. 

So, to get back to the Tom Petty thing, sure, I can see that a collaboration of some sort might have been cool and might have produced some genuinely good songs, as well as possibly some hits.  But I still firmly believe that the BB's output in the 70s is better than that of Tom Petty.  Whether songs like Break Away, Surf's Up, Till I Die, Marcella (I could go on and on) were popular with the general public does not factor into this assessment.  I just think their songs are better, period.   

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« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2017, 12:01:34 PM »

Tom Petty was in such a different wheelhouse from the BBs, but his music was more than just "straight-ahead rock." His output from 1989 through the 90s is pretty impressive.

I'd say Petty's best albums like "Full Moon Fever" and "Wildflowers" are stronger front-to-back than most latter-day BB albums.

"Full Moon Fever" is a stronger album front-to-back than BW '88, to make the closest available comparison. And obviously, Petty's output far exceeded the spotty post-1980 work the BBs collectively or solo did.

If someone told me they thought Petty's output was stronger than the BBs 70s work, I would assume they were probably talking more about the post-1975 material like "15 Big Ones", etc.

In any event, to me anyway it sounds a bit dismissive or patronizing to downplay Petty's stuff as "catchy" and/or "straight ahead rock." It was all of that often. But he had a whole style, and lyrical output, that was so different from the BBs that it's hard to compare.

Again, maybe the BBs speak to you more than anything else. But that doesn't always make it more substantive or serious or automatically superior to most of the rest of music. I feel like I would have to have a pretty wide, diverse knowledge of pop music before assuming the BBs were superior.

To the degree I am knowledgeable of a wider scope of music, I've found that the BB's most transcendent, highest peaks are hard to beat by much of anyone. When it comes to the best of their best, they're right up there with the top tier. But in terms of career-long, front-to-back album quality, the BBs have a much patchier record. Their era, as a group, of regularly making new music only lasted about 20 years when you think about it. It's 1961-1980, and then (in terms of released music anyway), it's very scattered (and what *is* there isn't all A-grade material). Brian obviously ramped up productivity starting in the late 90s on his solo material, with widely mixed results.

As I said, I'm not putting down Tom Petty.  I don't claim to be super knowledgeable about his stuff either so it's possible there's stuff of his that I don't know that I might love if I heard it.  But to use the phrase you used, the BB's most transcendent, highest peaks blow everyone else out of the water.  And even their lesser songs still always have something incredibly interesting in them.  Honestly, to me, the "worst" BB song is still going to be musically interesting, which I can't say about many other bands at all.  (The exception would be Mona, which I find incredibly boring on a musical level, though the lyrics make up for that.)   
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« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2017, 12:09:36 PM »

I think the trick is to listen WITHOUT bias. We are all hardcore BB fans on this forum. Personally, I love a song like Marcella but the reality is that a song like that isn't meant for public consumption. I can find a treasure on every single BB album but to the casual listener, they want another Pet Sounds or worse ... another 'Fun, Fun, Fun'. Obviously, in a way Mike was right to bitch about the "formula" because Brian's ambitious music, which created a pop masterpiece also likely doomed them to peaking at #50 or higher on the charts with each and every single. That was either because he started making music WAY too far out there or because he had a breakdown and left the band hanging and forced other members to contribute more than they were capable of doing.

Friends - #47
Blue Birds over the Mountain - #61
Break Away - #63
Add Some Music - #64
Cottonfield - #103
Long Promised Road - #89
Marcella - 110

Tom Petty

I Won't Back Down - #12
Free Fallin' - #7
Mary Jane's Last Dance - #14
American Girl - #9
You Don't Know How It Feels - #13

Now, I will throw this to member HeyJude who is 1,000 times more eloquent than I am... do you think it was easier for the BB to make it big during their era (60s) than it was for someone like Petty in the 80s and 90s? It seems like in 1963 there was a lot less to do than say in 1994 when Petty released Wildflowers. In the early 90s Petty had to compete with Michael Jackson, grunge, the rise of the internet and the improvements in movies and video games. Unless I am wrong, in 1965 there were only three channels on TV making the appearance of the boys on Sullivan a HUGE deal.

Again, I say all this as a die hard BB fan looking for discussion on this awesome board.

But is your argument about quality or popularity?  Because they are not the same thing.  I could list thousands of songs that charted higher than 63 but that doesn't mean that those songs are better than Break Away.  It just means that more people liked them.  Remember that song "Barbie Girl"?  It went to number one, despite being a complete piece of crap.  Chart positions are one thing; whether a song is good or not is a completely different issue.  (I'm not comparing Tom Petty to Aqua here, just using an extreme example to make a point). 

And as far as listening without bias goes, that's what I'm doing.  Yes, I'm a hardcore BB fan (as is everyone here) but I'm a hardcore fan BECAUSE they are SO GOOD.  I'm not a hardcore fan because I think they're really cute or cool or whatever.  It's because the music won me over in a way that no other music ever has. 

So, to get back to the Tom Petty thing, sure, I can see that a collaboration of some sort might have been cool and might have produced some genuinely good songs, as well as possibly some hits.  But I still firmly believe that the BB's output in the 70s is better than that of Tom Petty.  Whether songs like Break Away, Surf's Up, Till I Die, Marcella (I could go on and on) were popular with the general public does not factor into this assessment.  I just think their songs are better, period.   



I think the difference there is that Aqua song is a novelty, but those Tom Petty songs have endured the test of time. 

Granted, I don't really take chart position into account too much when it comes to music. 

But, even as a huge fan, I think it's pretty easy to see that, post Good Vibrations, The Beach Boys' music shifted and had more of a niche appeal. 
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"There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference." - Steve Desper
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« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2018, 06:19:49 PM »

Heard "Student Demonstration Time" tonight on the drive home...part of some thematic string on Deep Tracks.
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« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2018, 06:32:44 PM »

Alas, I still don't have XM...but many relatives do...heard "That's Not Me" on Deep Tracks the other day.
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« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2018, 05:17:51 AM »

Alas, I still don't have XM...but many relatives do...heard "That's Not Me" on Deep Tracks the other day.

I had free trials, and have had it while driving rentals.   Those are short sample sizes, and I still heard a lot of repetition.   Plus, I just can bring myself to pay for radio.   Heck, I wouldn't even spring for Spotify Premium when they ran their $0.99 special. 
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Any opinions posted by me regarding the music of The Beach Boys, and their members, is in no way a show of disrespect towards any member of The Beach Boys, past or present.

"There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference." - Steve Desper
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« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2018, 07:27:45 AM »

I heard "They Still Believe In Me" on DT the other day...the stereo version with Brian's single-tracked lead vocal. Similar problem as with "Caroline, No" - although the vocals in this case sounded fine (the lead, at least), there was still this weird phasing anomaly, leading me to believe they might have played the 5.1 version by mistake. Otherwise, they must have had too much compression or limiting or something...the other stuff they play generally sounds OK, although other Sirrius channels sound way better (The Bridge, for instance, sounds fantastic in my car...as does The Beatles channel).
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« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2018, 05:54:31 AM »

Having a lot of nervous energy I went to Dogstar Radio which has the playlists for each day on the regular and internet SiriusXM channels.

Yesterday they played:
Little Deuce Coupe (2), H&V, GOK (4), Sloop John B (4), Fun Fun Fun (5), WIBN (3), 409, BB Medley (2), Trader, Shut Down (4), GV (3), Surfin USA (2), Catch a Wave, Warmth of the Sun, Kokomo, DWB (3), Help Me Rhonda (2 - once on the Outlaw Country Channel!), Surfin Safari, Let Him Run Wild, I Get Around (2), Cali Girls (2), Blue Christmas (theres a year round holidays channel), You've Got to Hide Your Love Away, Let's Go Away for a While, We Three Kings, Do You Wanna Dance, I Can Hear Music, The Man With All the Toys, Barbara Ann, Darlin.

And so far today:
Do It Again, I'll be Home for Christmas, Forever, Let the Wind Blow,
The Lonely Sea
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 05:57:26 AM by NOLA BB Fan » Logged

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"(Brian) got into this really touching music with songs like 'In My Room', and 'Good Vibrations' was amazing. The melodies are so beautiful, almost perfect. I began to realize he was one of the most gifted writers of our generation." - Paul Simon
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« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2018, 06:05:12 AM »

In addition on the sixties channel they were requesting that people call a number and say what BB songs they like and other things. I only heard this once but according to Dogstar Radio this announcement was given numerous times yesterday

This could be in conjunction with a Beach Boys channel (don't know if it's temporary or not) that Al said during one of his shows would be on around Memorial Day (last Monday in May)
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"No White Flags." - Team Gleason

"(Brian) got into this really touching music with songs like 'In My Room', and 'Good Vibrations' was amazing. The melodies are so beautiful, almost perfect. I began to realize he was one of the most gifted writers of our generation." - Paul Simon
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« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2018, 07:55:44 PM »

Once again, I didn't actually hear it...but this afternoon on Deep Tracks, Earl Bailey read off some tunes he'd just played - including "Beach Boy Dennis Wilson, from his solo album Pacific Ocean Blue - 'Rainbows'". It was part of some rainbow-themed string of songs...I think including something by Richie Blackmore's Rainbow. Damn, that would have been great to hear, unexpectedly!  
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 07:56:17 PM by c-man » Logged
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