-->
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 24, 2017, 11:33:26 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
News: Carnival Of Sound
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  The Smiley Smile Message Board
|-+  Non Smiley Smile Stuff
| |-+  The Sandbox
| | |-+  NBA 2017 Topic
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 ... 21   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: NBA 2017 Topic  (Read 26640 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #150 on: November 23, 2016, 10:24:07 AM »

Honestly, I hear you!

I'm not sure what to make of Jackson in his current role and I suspect you are right on all accounts... but he is responsible for drafting KP. Yes, I believe the opt out is after this season, I just don't think he will opt out based on recent comments. As for Rose, that's why I liked the trade! He was an upgrade for this season. After that? No strings. And I do believe we can go over the cap to sign him, if desired. Melo is incredibly frustrating, though I will admit, deadly as a spot up shooter when KP is the first option. As for the Triangle, its been disappearing, at a surprising rate. I'm honestly surprised Jackson has allowed it to happen. I'm not an expert on the Triangle or any offensive for that matter (I just understand the fundamentals as a former player), but if they are running the triangle they are doing a hell of a job disguising it!  Grin For instance, it's rare to see a PG cut to the corner when watching a Knicks game. Also, great point on Rose-Melo pick and roll. They actually made the greatest effort of the season last night to go to that. I believe 3 times in a row, in fact.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #151 on: November 23, 2016, 10:37:56 AM »

Yeah, they have begun abandoning the triangle each of the seasons Jackson has been in control there now. They always start with it, then move away. Even when Rambis got the job to reintroduce it, they went away sometimes. It's just not a really viable offense anymore unless you have really good players. That's multiple: playerS. Not just multiple stars, but good role players. Seriously, when you think of the history of the NBA, no team has done well in the triangle without two superstars and multiple good role players. The offense itself, like most every offense, is only as good as its players ... and sometimes, if it's limiting, is worse than its players. (Examples of it not working: the Mavericks under Jim Cleamons, I think it was. Atrocious. Wolves when Rambis tried to use it. Nuggets didn't emphasize it but tried to use it a little under Brian Shaw.) Literally, the only times it has worked were with Jordan-Pippen plus either Grant/Armstrong/Paxson or Kukoc/Rodman/Harper; or Kobe/Shaq with an assortment of really good role players.

If Melo's ego could stand him being made second option, man, they could be deadly with pick and roll. They'd also need another really good shooter to help space, but that's not so hard to find. Even a fringe guy like Brady Heslip or someone can be had out of the D-League to do that.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #152 on: November 23, 2016, 11:26:53 AM »

Having understood the fundamentals of basketball but not studying the game close enough to assign specific actions/plays to specific systems, there's something I've been wondering lately...A common way to get into an offense when playing up tempo seems to be the PG dribbling to the wing, swinging the ball to the trailing big just above the 3pt line, who then swings it to the other side. I remember the Spurs doing this all the time with Duncan and I'd always be worried he would travel before swinging it. It's obviously natural to get into an offense this way because guards will out-run bigs down the floor. My question is, does this have a name or does it originate from a specific system? Was it made popular in the NBA by a specific team or has it always been around since the inception of basketball? The reason I've been thinking about it is it fits KP like a glove. The Knicks wanted some easy offense, well they've found it. Now if only they could get stops consistently. If the opposing big doesn't find KP in transition, KP just rises without hesitation and hits the 3. If the defender crowds him, he blows right by him.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #153 on: November 23, 2016, 11:54:27 AM »

That's a great question and I really don't know the answer. I certainly don't off the top of my head recall the bigs in particular being that swing guy back when I was growing up and watching basketball ('80s onward). But it's possible I just don't recall. I think of it as sort of a secondary break: if the guard(s) and/or wing(s) who get down court fastest don't have an obvious scoring opportunity toward the rim, they fade and reverse through the trailing big. But I don't know whether it came from a specific guy, team, offense, etc. I might ask around on that.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Mr. Verlander
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #154 on: November 24, 2016, 03:27:51 AM »

I'm still disgusted about how well the Clippers are playing.

Kevin Love had 34 points last night-in the 1st quarter. That's not too shabby.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #155 on: November 24, 2016, 05:02:29 AM »

The Wolves lost to New Orleans. Badly. I know Jrue Holiday is back, but even so.

Andrew Wiggins is a huge part of the problem. After an amazing start to the season--nearly 26 ppg, shooting great percentages including an unsustainable 54% from 3--he has had three poor games in a row. In those three games since Philly (all losses), Wiggins has shot 9-48 FG, 0-11 3pt. He has averaged about 11 ppg. He has pulled down fewer than 3 rpg. He has doled out 0.7 apg. And he has turned it over 3x/game, which is pretty poor for a non-guard. He is still getting to the FT line and doing OK there, going 16-20.

This has to get better or we'll keep losing.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 05:20:09 AM by the captain » Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #156 on: November 24, 2016, 05:54:56 AM »

GSW had 47 assists on 53 FG made last night.
Logged
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #157 on: November 24, 2016, 07:56:12 AM »

I'm still disgusted about how well the Clippers are playing.  

I think the Clippers will come back down, but I don't see them falling below the 3rd seed. Not with KD in GS.

Kevin Love had 34 points last night-in the 1st quarter. That's not too shabby.

Wow! Impressive. I can't help but root for Kevin Love.

The Wolves lost to New Orleans. Badly. I know Jrue Holiday is back, but even so.

Andrew Wiggins is a huge part of the problem. After an amazing start to the season--nearly 26 ppg, shooting great percentages including an unsustainable 54% from 3--he has had three poor games in a row. In those three games since Philly (all losses), Wiggins has shot 9-48 FG, 0-11 3pt. He has averaged about 11 ppg. He has pulled down fewer than 3 rpg. He has doled out 0.7 apg. And he has turned it over 3x/game, which is pretty poor for a non-guard. He is still getting to the FT line and doing OK there, going 16-20.

This has to get better or we'll keep losing.

Just prior to the Wolves game last night I turned on NBATV or ESPN and they were talking about Wiggins. I've hardly ever watched him play, but I was very impressed by the 26ppg but underwhelmed to see the 4 rpg right next to it. To focus on that, what is a reasonable expectation of him? He's 6-8, but only 199 lbs. Generally speaking, I'd like 6 rpg minimum from my SF, 8 rpg if he's elite. All things being equal (minutes) players usually put up their best rebounding numbers early in their career when they are most athletic. Of course, there are many factors affecting how many rebounds a guy gets at SF, but 4 rpg or fewer than 3 rpg, that can't be acceptable, no? To comment on the other stats you posted, 0.7 assists for a guy capable of scoring over 20 ppg is not encouraging, at all. Honestly, I'd think that's hard to do. I don't want it to sound like I'm coming down too hard on him, like I said, I've hardly watched him play. Just curious what type of rebounding numbers you think he should be getting over the course of the season, and his career.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 07:56:45 AM by B.E. » Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #158 on: November 24, 2016, 06:13:55 PM »

I agree with you 100%. I think anything below 5 rpg for a SF is very, very questionable. The main exception would be if he's more or less a 3-point shooter (exclusively). Like say it's Brad Lohaus or someone, Steve Novak, these types of players. (I realize these guys were mostly PFs, but the point is the same, as I mean guys whose job on offense is literally just to stay outside the 3-pt line.). In a lot of ways, Wiggins seems like a Tracy McGrady type. Well, from mostly SG, McGrady averaged almost 6 rpg for his career (and more than 7 rpg two different seasons). Paul Pierce was shorter than Wiggins and averaged about 6 rpg for his career, and more than 7 rpg about half a dozen times. Scottie Pippen, 6.4. Clyde Drexler, 6.1. Adrian Dantley (6-5) averaged 5.7.

If you're not a shooting specialist, and you're 6-8, and you're absurdly athletic, you need to be getting 5+ rpg, and ideally more like 8. Even if you're thin.

You could say that Towns and Dieng grab up almost 20 rpg, so that makes it harder for the smaller guys, but Rubio seems to find a way to get 4 rpg from the PG spot...
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Mr. Verlander
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2016, 07:26:10 AM »

I agree with you 100%. I think anything below 5 rpg for a SF is very, very questionable. The main exception would be if he's more or less a 3-point shooter (exclusively). Like say it's Brad Lohaus or someone, Steve Novak, these types of players. (I realize these guys were mostly PFs, but the point is the same, as I mean guys whose job on offense is literally just to stay outside the 3-pt line.). In a lot of ways, Wiggins seems like a Tracy McGrady type. Well, from mostly SG, McGrady averaged almost 6 rpg for his career (and more than 7 rpg two different seasons). Paul Pierce was shorter than Wiggins and averaged about 6 rpg for his career, and more than 7 rpg about half a dozen times. Scottie Pippen, 6.4. Clyde Drexler, 6.1. Adrian Dantley (6-5) averaged 5.7.

If you're not a shooting specialist, and you're 6-8, and you're absurdly athletic, you need to be getting 5+ rpg, and ideally more like 8. Even if you're thin.

You could say that Towns and Dieng grab up almost 20 rpg, so that makes it harder for the smaller guys, but Rubio seems to find a way to get 4 rpg from the PG spot...

Holy sh*t, Brad Lohaus? That's going back!
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #160 on: November 25, 2016, 07:29:26 AM »

I'm getting old.  Undecided
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #161 on: November 25, 2016, 07:33:23 AM »

There are reports of rumors ("reports of rumors," this is what sports journalism is...) that Thibs is getting impatient and may trade one of the promising young Wolves for a veteran who can help win games now.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/11/24/rumor-tom-thibodeau-expected-to-trade-young-timberwolves-player-for-established-veteran/

While I'd never say never without knowing specifics--and again, this is all based on speculation at best--I'd be really, really hesitant to move KAT, Wiggins, or LaVine for an older player. I mean, some of the guys mentioned? Taj Gibson? Luol Deng? Fine players, both, but Deng is well into his downside, no doubt a great locker room guy and moderately productive player, but for a future all-star? And Gibson, he's a productive, solid role player. Again, this for a future all-star?

I really, really want this Wolves team to make the playoffs this year. But if it starts looking like they won't, life goes on. Take a few losses for the bigger picture. Move some peripheral guys in an attempt to help things out, maybe Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng (if he's trade-eligible...his extension might have messed that up for now), Tyus Jones, Ricky Rubio, even. But you don't start dealing away some of the most talented players we've ever had on the roster before they even reach their primes just because they aren't improving as quickly as your imagination has them improving.

I'm hoping this is just the stupid internet talking.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #162 on: November 25, 2016, 08:29:00 AM »

I saw that. Seems absurd to get impatient now.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #163 on: November 25, 2016, 10:06:17 AM »

Steve Kerr was a guest on (former Obama strategist) David Axelrod's podcast, The Axe Files, with the episode posted on Nov. 23. Axelrod is a basketball fan--he has also had Joakim Noah and Bill Walton on, for example--and Kerr has quite an interesting political history, with his father having been killed in Lebanon when he was the president of the American University there.  I've only heard about 25 minutes so far (of the hour long show), but it's really interesting stuff for basketball and politics fans alike. (Don't worry, at least so far there is nothing too partisan, and there tends to be a lot of courtesy and moderation on this show in general.)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ep.-99-steve-kerr/id1043593599?i=1000378197072&mt=2
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Mr. Verlander
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #164 on: November 25, 2016, 01:40:23 PM »

There are reports of rumors ("reports of rumors," this is what sports journalism is...) that Thibs is getting impatient and may trade one of the promising young Wolves for a veteran who can help win games now.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/11/24/rumor-tom-thibodeau-expected-to-trade-young-timberwolves-player-for-established-veteran/

While I'd never say never without knowing specifics--and again, this is all based on speculation at best--I'd be really, really hesitant to move KAT, Wiggins, or LaVine for an older player. I mean, some of the guys mentioned? Taj Gibson? Luol Deng? Fine players, both, but Deng is well into his downside, no doubt a great locker room guy and moderately productive player, but for a future all-star? And Gibson, he's a productive, solid role player. Again, this for a future all-star?

I really, really want this Wolves team to make the playoffs this year. But if it starts looking like they won't, life goes on. Take a few losses for the bigger picture. Move some peripheral guys in an attempt to help things out, maybe Shabazz Muhammad, Gorgui Dieng (if he's trade-eligible...his extension might have messed that up for now), Tyus Jones, Ricky Rubio, even. But you don't start dealing away some of the most talented players we've ever had on the roster before they even reach their primes just because they aren't improving as quickly as your imagination has them improving.

I'm hoping this is just the stupid internet talking.

I saw the article (or an article) talking about this, and I figured that it was just news for the sake of having to have news early in the season.

If this is true, than it's absolutely asinine. What did he expect, to make the Western Conference finals? I exaggerate, but you know what I mean. It's a young team that has to learn. If he's that impatient, then he picked the wrong job, and the Wolves were foolish to give him that kind of control, especially if he starts trading for guys he used to have on Chicago's roster. I understand that he doesn't like to lose, and he's used to winning. This isn't the right way to do it, though (which I'm sure you're aware of, Cap. )
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #165 on: November 25, 2016, 02:04:43 PM »

Right there with you.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #166 on: November 26, 2016, 06:40:35 AM »

Finally, a late comeback and a win. Thibs went to third-string PG (and local kid) Tyus Jones when Phoenix went small, and left him in there for 19 minutes, where Jones played alongside Ricky Rubio, alongside Kris Dunn, and then alongside Zach LaVine. Jones finished with a +22 plus-minus, with 6 pts on 3-6 shooting, 3 ast, 2 reb, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.

While he lacks the physical gifts of Dunn and the freakish vision of Rubio, Jones is a more complete kind of point guard. He may be smaller and slower than both, but Jones is a better shooter than either of the men ahead of him on the depth chart--and he's no slouch in terms of court vision, either. Very smart player, even back in high school for Apple Valley. He's quick, if not explosive or fast, and he's got an uncanny sense of how to get where he needs to go and get off the shots he needs to get off. His defense, as I've said before, is pretty bad, but he's improving based on effort and position (as his physical abilities won't ever do him favors on that end).

Jones is why I fear our top two guys as the primary rotation: can you really just cede one of five positions on the offensive end of the court every minute of every game? Even with the likes of KAT, Wig, and LaVine, that's a lot to ask. Four on five is not easy.

Tonight, at Golden State. I'll enjoy last night's win while it lasts.  Grin
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Mr. Verlander
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #167 on: November 26, 2016, 09:18:22 AM »

Pistons hand the Clippers their first road loss of the year. Gotta love that!

Now, if Detroit can learn how to, you know, actually win on the road, they'd be in good shape.
Logged
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #168 on: November 26, 2016, 09:24:53 AM »

While I've been watching their box scores, I haven't seen the Pistons this year. How are Ish Smith and Beno Udrih holding down the fort? Reggie Jackson is practicing again, I understand. Any timetable on that? As opposed to him as I was when they acquired him, I have to admit he's been good there.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #169 on: November 28, 2016, 04:10:37 PM »

Wolves host Utah tonight. I'm cautiously optimistic, but even with injuries, that Jazz team is pretty good. Like the Wolves, they have a lot of young, developing talent ... and some of theirs is beginning to enter their primes.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7634



View Profile
« Reply #170 on: November 29, 2016, 03:19:01 PM »

Wiggins dunk over McGee the other night was beautiful.
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2016, 03:32:31 PM »

It was, as was LaVine's over Alex Len, I think it was. Unfortunately we're not playing well...
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7634



View Profile
« Reply #172 on: November 29, 2016, 03:34:55 PM »

Thibs could swing a trade for vet like Jimmy Butler...
Logged

I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
the captain
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7134


View Profile
« Reply #173 on: December 01, 2016, 06:04:57 AM »

How are the pelicans 1-9?

Pelicans are 3-0 since Jrue Holiday's return. Including a beat down of the Hawks (who appear to be coming back down to earth after losing to the Knicks as well).

Speaking of the Knicks LOL I am encouraged by what I'm seeing. Knicks are 7-7 and quietly have a 5 game home winning streak. If they are to be a 40-50 win team they must take advantage of stretches like the one before them...CHA, @CHA, OKC, @MIN, MIN, SAC, @MIA. These games are just as important as games in April. Is 5-2 too much to ask? Probably.

Meanwhile, the LAL beat OKC last night. The Lakers have been up and down, but overall, they keep surprising me.
well the 1st game v MN pissed me off!

But seriously at least the wolves came to play. And KAT!! Wow. Him v Zinger was great.
Logged

Demon-Fighting Genius, Patronizing Twaddler, Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick, and Sensationalist Dullard, and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 310


View Profile
« Reply #174 on: December 01, 2016, 02:33:20 PM »

well the 1st game v MN pissed me off!

But seriously at least the wolves came to play. And KAT!! Wow. Him v Zinger was great.

I was so frustrated, that during the stoppage with 49 seconds left, I considered taking a break from the Knicks for a while!

KAT was amazing, as well as KP. It really is fun to see them together on the same court (perhaps we will see them again during the All-Star game?). KAT is just too strong for the Knicks to handle. Luckily for us, he really didn't get any help last night. Wiggins had a solid game, LaVine scored in the 4th, but that's about it. Only 5 points from the Wolves bench... I expect the Knicks to win at home. Melo is beyond due to have a good night shooting the ball (in 4 of the previous 5 games he's a combined 23 for 82). I just hope we don't focus too much on KAT, at the expense of getting other guys going. I'm of the mindset that one guy can't beat you. Lock up on everyone else... Knicks gotta stop fouling!!! Especially early in quarters.

Also, what are your thoughts on Rubio? The Knicks commentators (Breen/Clyde) were talking about how Rubio doesn't seem like himself, he doesn't seem to be playing with the same joy as in the past. Anything to that? Is it injuries/losing? I've always been a fan from afar of his and Dunn doesn't look ready if I'm gonna judge him on one game.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 ... 21   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 21 queries.