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Author Topic: Thread for arguments with or about moderation  (Read 160346 times)
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Debbie KL
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« Reply #550 on: June 09, 2016, 12:00:54 PM »

I guess you have to have A LOT of free time on your hands and lot of disdain and not really feel "it's all about the Beach Boys and sharing knowledge and two boards are better than one" if you go into your old posts one-by-one and manually delete content.

BEST POST EVER, at least until the next best post.

I guess what I find so fascinating in all of this is that, given my personal experience in meeting various people around Brian/the BBs, there seems to be a cottage industry where people build a business (at least, part-time) off the talents of Brian Wilson/Beach Boys (writers, photographers, traders, etc.).  Others build a strange sort of fan following from the same artist(s) and seem to need that.  

So here, as best I can tell, we seem to have a board with owner/mods who want to maintain some sort of integrity and respect for the artists - with a lot of commentary and debate over what that looks like allowed - but there are certain boundaries of civility and honesty.  That's what I see being attacked right now because the rules don't suit some.  Am I mistaken?
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Emily
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« Reply #551 on: June 09, 2016, 12:06:59 PM »

No. Not mistaken.
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« Reply #552 on: June 09, 2016, 12:07:38 PM »

This "purging old posts" thing just makes me think of this:


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« Reply #553 on: June 09, 2016, 12:08:45 PM »

No idea what it is, but it looks about right.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #554 on: June 09, 2016, 12:09:41 PM »

The grinch! Grin
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« Reply #555 on: June 09, 2016, 12:12:54 PM »

Ah. Only ever saw the cartoon. Grinch cartoon purist.
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« Reply #556 on: June 09, 2016, 12:17:43 PM »

Ah. Only ever saw the cartoon. Grinch cartoon purist.

The cartoon film is far superior. But the live action Jim Carrey version has some funny bits.  3D
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« Reply #557 on: June 09, 2016, 12:23:56 PM »

This "purging old posts" thing just makes me think of this:




LOL
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« Reply #558 on: June 10, 2016, 06:45:20 AM »

The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby skulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #559 on: June 10, 2016, 07:23:15 AM »

The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby skulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.

Y'know, I don't recall anyone over there trashing your good name.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 10:51:16 AM by Smilin Ed H » Logged
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #560 on: June 10, 2016, 08:18:15 AM »

Who is part of this conspiracy to remove guitarfool as mod, besides AGD?

?

My issue with GF isn't about this recent belief that he bans people on his own, but rather he tries to suppress opinions he doesn't like.  Just like with my ban he accused me of not knowing what I was talking about when I was talking about something completely different... changing the goal posts to suit his argument.  I even offered to take it to pm because there was no reason to have that silly debate waste space.  Turns out we were talking about two different threads.  Once I made that clear, he kept going asking if I've had my say, because it's foolish, not even acknowledging that I was talking about something else.  I know he was just dying to ban me at that point.  He got his way when Billy misunderstood something I said.  Thankfully, we talked about it since then everything's cool now.  That's why almost everyone loves Billy, he's willing to admit a mistake and listen to suggestions.  That's what makes him a great mod.

Only Billy apologized?

I didn't try to reach out to GF, but I didn't think it would be worth the effort after all the things he said to me. 

Still.

Weren't there 4 (or 3) mods that participated in that group decision?

It seemed like it was just Billy and Craig.  Once Billy took issue with my post I was banned. 


With so much going on here, it's only possible to take these things one point at a time. My intent isn't to do anything except get the facts out there, and add my say on this since these issues still seem to be lingering almost a year later.

So after these quotes above, this is what I thought was the resolution:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22638.msg535478.html#msg535478


Klaas was not involved because as he explained to us later, he was not able to be as involved in the board at various times because of issues he informed us of that had nothing to do with the board. As happened in some of these cases, it was Billy and I who were on the board as issues like this were still actively playing out.

The timeout "ban" was something other members recommended be put in place in general if things started to escalate, until things were either cooling off or until they could be figured out. In this case, as has been explained, the timeout given here was agreed, and in both of our cases we could not figure out what points were trying to be made, other than it began to escalate and some statements were made which made no sense.

In follow-ups that happened, whatever it was that Cinc Kid and Billy had issues with regarding posts, the last I heard of this at the time was that Billy had worked things out with Cinc Kid. And as shown in that link, the final word on the matter (also agreed on) was the timeout would stand. So it did, Cinc Kid is still here and able to post, and that was that.

So in light of what I thought and Billy thought was a closed issue because it was last August, recently it came back on the board in this thread about moderation issues, in the quote above.

After being told by Cinc Kid to "move on", "let it go", drop it, etc...on a number of issues where statements he made were in question, here was an issue that was resolved back in August 2015 being posted yet again, and with me and my actions again being challenged by Cinc Kid.

Like the part about not contacting me over all the things "he said to me", and "not being worth the effort"...that is a load of crap (speaking as Craig, myself, on that point). Go back to the link where it unfolded, and go post by post where Cinc Kid kept hammering away and started taking personal shots.

So I was the one "dying to ban" Cinc Kid, yet when both Billy and I were discussing it as it was playing out, we *both* had the same reactions and the timeout ban was agreed on as 7-days. It was the exact use of that ban which other members suggested to the mods and which the mods agreed on.

Once whatever it was that Cinc Kid and Billy worked out between them was on the record, and the explanation given beyond what was the last word in the actual thread, that was what I thought was it, and it should have been it.

Why this was yet again brought up here a week or so ago, used to add to the chorus of those who were unloading on me on all the issues they had or that I was blamed for?

The idea of letting things go isn't exclusive to those you disagree with or simply don't like. If things were worked out, that's it. It was a 7-day timeout, that's it. It was worked out off the board, so that's it. Why make these inflammatory statements if it was indeed "worked out", and why keep hammering away at this same issue while at the same time telling others to "let it go", "move on", "give it a rest", "get over it", etc.?

If more details are necessary to put this thing in the past and lock the damn vault on this issue, those can be offered. But it should be done.

Next up, the more recent discussions involving Cinc Kid and who or what is being twisted around and blamed.
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« Reply #561 on: June 10, 2016, 08:28:20 AM »

And if there are any posters who don't want to follow the link, with 10 months removed from this original episode, this is exactly what played out and what was said. No recollections, no commentary about what I did or said or didn't do or say, but the actual exchange that was escalating to the point Billy and I were talking in messages off the board to try to figure out what was going on. If these comments are weighed as me trying to insult or intimidate Cinc Kid, all i can say is I disagree and the evolution of this conversation seems to bear that out. It's sometimes not good to play the 'who started it first' game, but I won;t have it said or reported by Cinc Kid or Cam or anyone else telling the board that I was coming down hard on Cinc Kid in this specific exchange:


I second that - life's too short for this sh*t. Toodle loo!

15 pages too late.

You guys knew very well where this thread was going to go.  It should have been locked up after the first post.  

Armchair quarterbacking? It's an open forum and will be kept that way. Should the "Negative Reviews Of NPP" thread have been deleted too when it first appeared? Funny that there are and were some legitimate discussions and some historical info put out in this topic that it seems wasn't widely known, on the years 88-97. Some wanted to throw dirt instead. If the issue was with the author's original post, call him out on it.

No armchair quarterbacking, I made the third post in this thread.  Threads made to call out specific members of the band are useless and idiotic.  Yeah there was some good info in this thread, maybe a couple pages worth?  Someone could have made a separate thread like you did with that lawsuit Mike had.  

As mentioned, some would say devoting a thread to reposting negative reviews the weeks after a new album got released and including such journalistic powerhouses as a student newspaper from Australia among them was useless and idiotic as well, should that have been stopped before it got started as well? Maybe so.

No, because that is about the material, not the person.  If Ian wanted to come back and create a thread titled "Why do you hate SIP" I'd be have no problem with it.

Oh, so there is a difference? Do you really think the purpose of dredging up negative reviews and reposting them here was about the material more than it was about the person who made the album?

As far as Ian's original intent, let's take it further and see if he gets the benefit of the doubt. What if there was a music writer who was researching an article about The Beatles and wanted to know why fans hate Yoko Ono? Or why KISS fans hate Gene Simmons? How would that writer go about addressing it to a community of fans who would most likely be the best sources of information, if the purpose was to actually find out why from the fans themselves?

There was a story about a fan of Slash who went to one of Axl Rose's GnR shows wearing a Slash t-shirt, Axl spotted him and went berzerk on the guy. Again, benefit of the doubt, what if a writer doing an article wanted to find out where that hostility came from, or why some fans either hate Slash or Axl, who better to ask than the fans if you want to hear opinions?

That thread was created three days after the album came out, but nice try.  Billy even agreed with the OP.  There were a lot of no name sites that gave it good reviews, too.  

There's plenty of stuff out there that he can use for research to see why people might hate Mike.  There's plenty of objectionable things he's done that have received bad press.  You don't ask a forum, especially one where people claim there's an agenda almost anytime something negative is said about Brian.  

  

So you think the negative reviews thread had nothing to do with the man whose album was released and everything to do with...what exactly? Sharing information? Sure. Ask the guy who started that one.

Why does it have to be about Brian?  Why couldn't he just be concerned that it was getting bad reviews?  Again, your fellow moderator even agreed with him.  That OP's posting history shows there is no agenda at all.  

That's hilarious.

Is it?  Or do you mean for me because you keep digging yourself a bigger hole. Show me his posts that show he has a history of an agenda against Brian.  Feel free to pm it to me instead.  But nice job of deflecting from my original point to make it about someone you think has an agenda against Brian.  

Your original point was addressed, I'll say again this is an open forum, if you don't like something just challenge it or ignore it and it will fade away eventually. If you have an issue with the topic, ask the original writer what he's trying to get at with the post.

The other topic: Ask him why he quit if you're a pal. Simple as that. Then ask what happened afterward.

Are you saying there were two threads with the same title?  This is the one I'm referring to. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=20337.0

And again, your fellow moderator agreed with him, so I guess Billy has an agenda against Brian as well?

Whoa...did you seriously say *I* have an agenda against Brian?! That may be the stupidest thing ever posted in the history of this forum, and that is saying a lot.

Quote
I personally don't get it. Brian's been more hands on involved than in many many years.  Best singing in over 40 years,  easily.

That was my post. So me saying that he sang better on the disc than he has in 40 years, and how involved we was was AGAINST Brian? Really? Do you even know who in the hell I am?!

For sh*t's sake, man, please tell me I read that wrong.

Yeah, you read it wrong...  Wink    

In that thread you were essentially agreeing that there were more bad/mixed reviews than expected.  Craig is claiming that Nicko's thread was started with some sort of agenda (even though I wasn't talking about that thread, but whatever).  So I was asking him since he thought Nicko had an agenda, surely you must have an agenda, too.  In short, I don't think you have an agenda against Brian.

EDIT/ADDITION:
So I'm not accused of selective editing, these were the follow up posts to the ones above.



Am I done?  You're the one that went on a rant about a completely different topic to make me seem hypocritical.  You say I'm wrong, but you were wrong about me armchair quarterbacking this thread, wrong about why I think this thread should be locked, wrong about when that first thread was created and unclear about which NPP thread you were talking about.  Maybe you should sit back and relax a little before you try to intimidate people with your long essays on why you are "right". 

Yes, I'm talking about Billy as that's who I said I was talking about.  Just look at his first post in that second thread.   

A bigger scraper, indeed.

Not tolerating that.

Quote
So I was asking him since he thought Nicko had an agenda, surely you must have an agenda, too

I still don't see what was wrong with my post. That part makes absolutely no sense to me.

Same here.

The Cincinnati Kid is getting a 7-day timeout from posting here. No need for this at all.

Quote
So I was asking him since he thought Nicko had an agenda, surely you must have an agenda, too

I still don't see what was wrong with my post. That part makes absolutely no sense to me.

Where did he say anything was wrong with it, I must have missed it? His next sentence was "In short, I don't think you have an agenda against Brian", so he wasn't saying he thought you had an agenda.

I believe his point was to illustrate that Nicko's thread was a straw man argument that had been brought to his point about ForHerCryingSoul's thread.

Anyway, the kid was calm and polite and stuck to the point. Why was he put in time out? 


Read his previous post, the one I responded to. He backtracked like hell once I called him out on it; I was okay with it until I went back and read the previous stuff. In any case, it's 7 days, and is the final discussion on that matter.


And that was what was thought to be the end of it, minus whatever conversations happened off the board.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 08:39:11 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #562 on: June 10, 2016, 12:00:02 PM »

The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby sulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.

Y'know, I don't recall anyone over there trashing your good name.

C'mon. By deleting that content, they are deliberately sabotaging this board.
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« Reply #563 on: June 10, 2016, 12:27:49 PM »

In retrospect, looking at it almost a year later, it looks like I *still* misread the post even after it was explained to me. And heck, even now, it's hard as hell to understand who is saying what with the gigantic quote tree.
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« Reply #564 on: June 10, 2016, 12:33:32 PM »

The "other forum" apparently has already put a time limit of 1440 minutes on modifying posts . Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby sulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned. That's probably a good plan.

Y'know, I don't recall anyone over there trashing your good name.

C'mon. By deleting that content, they are deliberately sabotaging this board.

So the only people who are the little baby sulkers and the malignant and the maligned are the people removing stuff they posted. So that's how many? Steve Mayo? I mean, it is his stuff, isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:34:48 PM by Smilin Ed H » Logged
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« Reply #565 on: June 10, 2016, 12:35:39 PM »

Quote

C'mon. By deleting that content, they are deliberately sabotaging this board.

I agree, but

Quote
Apparently they are getting ready for the day when the little baby sulkers once again decide they're going to create a new haven for the malignant and maligned

that wasn't needed.


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« Reply #566 on: June 10, 2016, 01:06:31 PM »

You're right, Billy. My bad.
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« Reply #567 on: June 12, 2016, 05:06:06 AM »

And if there are any posters who don't want to follow the link, with 10 months removed from this original episode, this is exactly what played out and what was said. No recollections, no commentary about what I did or said or didn't do or say, but the actual exchange that was escalating to the point Billy and I were talking in messages off the board to try to figure out what was going on. If these comments are weighed as me trying to insult or intimidate Cinc Kid, all i can say is I disagree and the evolution of this conversation seems to bear that out. It's sometimes not good to play the 'who started it first' game, but I won;t have it said or reported by Cinc Kid or Cam or anyone else telling the board that I was coming down hard on Cinc Kid in this specific exchange:

EDIT/ADDITION:
So I'm not accused of selective editing, these were the follow up posts to the ones above.

And that was what was thought to be the end of it, minus whatever conversations happened off the board.

I believe there is some selective editing and significant omission but we can go here and read it all starting at http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22638.msg535097.html#msg535097 and over the next few pages.

I believe the complaints were about word twisting and confusion and wondering what exactly was the infraction the Kid committed to deserve the suspension.  You brought oranges to the Kid's apple argument and he pointed it out. You pointed him to a thread using title case with quotations ("Negative Reviews Of NPP") which he proceeded to refer to but it turns out you meant a different thread with a title nothing like you quoted ("Several New Reviews") and you were holding him accountable to your misdirection. You lead the argument and kept it going even after the Kid suggested taking it to PM. Then after he summarized all of your confusions and mistakes (and Billie's) and misdirection, he was suspended.  What was the rule he broke?

Since you bring it up, I do disagree very strongly with you in that in a real time read it seems to me you were very much "trying to insult or intimidate Cinc Kid" while you were diverting and confusing him and twice taunting him about what had happened with a poster who you had also disagreed with (regarding your "oranges" argument) who was no longer on the board.  Billie on the other hand, even with all of his challenges, has graciously gone to the Kid to cut through the confusion and has apologized for his part in it which is very much to his credit imo.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:25:35 AM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #568 on: June 12, 2016, 07:40:17 AM »

And if there are any posters who don't want to follow the link, with 10 months removed from this original episode, this is exactly what played out and what was said. No recollections, no commentary about what I did or said or didn't do or say, but the actual exchange that was escalating to the point Billy and I were talking in messages off the board to try to figure out what was going on. If these comments are weighed as me trying to insult or intimidate Cinc Kid, all i can say is I disagree and the evolution of this conversation seems to bear that out. It's sometimes not good to play the 'who started it first' game, but I won;t have it said or reported by Cinc Kid or Cam or anyone else telling the board that I was coming down hard on Cinc Kid in this specific exchange:

EDIT/ADDITION:
So I'm not accused of selective editing, these were the follow up posts to the ones above.

And that was what was thought to be the end of it, minus whatever conversations happened off the board.

I believe there is some selective editing and significant omission but we can go here and read it all starting at http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22638.msg535097.html#msg535097 and over the next few pages.

I believe the complaints were about word twisting and confusion and wondering what exactly was the infraction the Kid committed to deserve the suspension.  You brought oranges to the Kid's apple argument and he pointed it out. You pointed him to a thread using title case with quotations ("Negative Reviews Of NPP") which he proceeded to refer to but it turns out you meant a different thread with a title nothing like you quoted ("Several New Reviews") and you were holding him accountable to your misdirection. You lead the argument and kept it going even after the Kid suggested taking it to PM. Then after he summarized all of your confusions and mistakes (and Billie's) and misdirection, he was suspended.  What was the rule he broke?

Since you bring it up, I do disagree very strongly with you in that in a real time read it seems to me you were very much "trying to insult or intimidate Cinc Kid" while you were diverting and confusing him and twice taunting him about what had happened with a poster who you had also disagreed with (regarding your "oranges" argument) who was no longer on the board.  Billie on the other hand, even with all of his challenges, has graciously gone to the Kid to cut through the confusion and has apologized for his part in it which is very much to his credit imo.

Despite what you believe, I posted the link to the FULL thread for anyone who wanted to go back and read it. I posted the long thread tree that led to Billy and I discussing it off the board, which we did, and that led to the "timeout".

What isn't there because it wasn't in the tree of quotes, and which was not 'selective editing' on my part but rather something that just wasn't included in the quotes, was the post where I put direct links to both "NPP reviews" threads, the original one from Nicko and the follow up that came after. Whatever confusion there was, both threads/topics were referenced by direct links.


Cam: Why are you pushing this issue? You want to make me apologize for what and to whom, exactly?

Let's take your original comments as well.

Who was the first in any of that to take a personal shot at another person in the conversation?

You tried to argue how "calm and polite" the Kid was and how he "stuck to the point"...by making a crack about my "long essays", and this was after he also upset Billy by not being more careful wording his comments...or thinking them out before posting. Which is why Billy responded as he did, and which is why we took it off the board to discuss what the hell The Kid was trying to say.

Whatever Billy and The Kid followed up with and discussed, that's between them. If Billy apologized, that's between him and The Kid and I have no idea what they discussed.

But I will not be harangued into apologizing for things that I did not do, or for someone who decided to escalate into personal things and take shots, beyond just me and including dragging Billy into it which was the clincher for that timeout.

For the record, "Nicko" was part of one of the most bizarre series of twists and turns regarding multiple accounts, aliases, and the like, and he had a record of being banned then trying to evade the ban on other forums...for attacking other posters. And despite knowing all of this, and the whole twisted web, a noted fact-checker came on to "vouch" for him. That wasn't surprising considering what was discovered later. I'll leave it at that.


So Cam, if you want to keep dredging up this stuff, it's foolish. It's over. Whether you think I need to apologize or not, I could care less at this point. Anyone who wants to see exactly what happened and what was said publicly, I provided the link(s) and relevant quotes. I won't have this stuff continually used to challenge me or any mod decisions when this was a done deal.

Now what still remains open is the more recent episode where the Cinc Kid said some things that caused yet another dust-up.

Cam, perhaps if you're defending him as strongly and as unwavering as your defense has been, you should consider the possibility that numerous people are reacting to what he's been saying as they have because he is making comments that sound a certain way then defending them, and following it up with personal name calling and shots taken against those questioning him.

At some point, if this has happened on multiple discussions where one poster's comments have triggered such reactions from moderators to board members who have reacted then have had it turn into personal passive-aggressive or even direct shots taken at them, maybe the person who is common to all of these dust-ups should think before posting, and make sure the words are clear.

And the only person who regularly steps up to try to B.S. everyone by saying it's not his fault, as in you Cam, should consider people are not as dumb as you must think and are quite capable of reading what was written. they don't need someone to continually gild the lily by saying how calm and polite The Kid is in all of this when it's not at all coming off that way, especially after calling members trolls and taking another Bgas/Doe/Nicko bullshit crack at my posting style. That's kid's stuff.

Pun not intended.


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« Reply #569 on: June 12, 2016, 08:53:25 AM »

There are these:

Addressing this to The Cincinnati Kid and Mike's Beard:

As I just wrote earlier, it's best to know what the facts are before trying to argue them with someone who actually does know. Argue it til you're blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that you simply don't seem to know what did or didn't actually happen, yet are speaking as if you do. The way both of you were talking, it seemed like you either knew personally or had been speaking to that person who is no longer on the board, yet the facts were not lining up with what happened.

Cincinnati Kid:

Why does it have to be about Brian?  Why couldn't he just be concerned that it was getting bad reviews?  Again, your fellow moderator even agreed with him.  That OP's posting history shows there is no agenda at all. 

The original "reviews" thread is still open and available to view. Read through it and the follow-up that got lumped in with it. That's available too. In that thread, you'll see exactly what played out, who said what etc. And there was what looked to be a pretty wide majority saying the exact opposite of your "no agenda at all line" citing the same posting history. Two versions of the same story? Or more people seeing that issue completely opposite of your own opinions? It's funny that months later you cite a posting history that was the same point the majority of those posting there used to suggest the purpose of that thread was less than positive.

It's all there, read it. And we had a case where a majority of those posting there were questioning the motives of the person starting the thread just as was done here in this one, whether it's about a person or the album or whatever else.

Get the facts straight before getting into the "nice try" territory. Some of us here perfected those tactics years ago and can spot them a mile away in a dense fog.

Mike's Beard:

We can't, he quit not long after the NPP Police gave him endless sh*t for the thread.
That's what he told you, I assume?
I'm guessing he quit.

Or maybe he woke up one morning after being a poster on here for many years and just randomly decided he didn't like The Beach Boys no more?

Facts: The account was closed May 29th or in the days surrounding it. The so-called "NPP Police" thread stalled out in mid-April. Unless "long after" means six weeks or so in message board standards, I'd say 6 weeks is a decent amount of time to keep posting and logging on before closing up shop.

Fact: You spoke as if you were in contact, or were pals, I don't know what's up. That's why I asked if he told you that. The actual "reasons" I saw and read and heard were actually posted quite openly and publicly. And beyond that, there were issues that went beyond and into some wild places, if I may say so. Not good.

I will say this non-issue of the "NPP Police" meant nothing. Neither did the supposed thread where these NPP Police came in swinging imaginary truncheons and drove anyone off the board after posting negative reviews.

It's fine to support a mate whose opinions and ideas you agree with, but at least get the facts in order, especially before trying to tell the rest of the community something that isn't true.




Are you saying there were two threads with the same title?  This is the one I'm referring to. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=20337.0

And again, your fellow moderator agreed with him, so I guess Billy has an agenda against Brian as well?

Let us know when you've had your say. This is foolish.

Here is the thread with dozens of reviews: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.0.html

Here is the one that got posted soon afterward where the original poster of this one was wondering why there were so many bad reviews: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20337.0.html

The one with the dozens of reviews: How did that work out? Time well-spent, or a ridiculous waste of time? A genuine attempt to share with board members, or something less positive by design? What were the reactions? If majority ruled, that thread would have gotten shitcanned before there was a page 2. And the original poster who is no longer on the board...no agenda? Then what were those posting reactions to it saying, were they all just totally wrong? It's in the post history, apparently the same set of facts can be read two different ways. My thoughts are all over that thread, both of them actually.

I LOVE the last post in the second one. A great quote. Notice no one commented since June...not a bit surprised.

So there it is. How much more needs to be done, said, or argued?

Bottom line: You were wrong. You wanted to argue about something which you didn't know enough about to argue. Take away whatever you want from that, but at this point is it enough? Had your say? I hope so.

And this you keep posting about my "fellow mod", I guess you mean Billy, agreeing with something, what exactly are you referring to? In either of those threads? What, exactly? Must be important enough to keep mentioning it. have a point there or is it just to argue even more?

This is the kind of fun the board has, right? Great stuff.

I'll need a bigger scraper after wading through this.

I don't see where I said anything about the length of your posts.  Where was that.

I'll get back to you on the rest.
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« Reply #570 on: June 12, 2016, 10:01:33 AM »

There are these:

Addressing this to The Cincinnati Kid and Mike's Beard:

As I just wrote earlier, it's best to know what the facts are before trying to argue them with someone who actually does know. Argue it til you're blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that you simply don't seem to know what did or didn't actually happen, yet are speaking as if you do. The way both of you were talking, it seemed like you either knew personally or had been speaking to that person who is no longer on the board, yet the facts were not lining up with what happened.

Cincinnati Kid:

Why does it have to be about Brian?  Why couldn't he just be concerned that it was getting bad reviews?  Again, your fellow moderator even agreed with him.  That OP's posting history shows there is no agenda at all.  

The original "reviews" thread is still open and available to view. Read through it and the follow-up that got lumped in with it. That's available too. In that thread, you'll see exactly what played out, who said what etc. And there was what looked to be a pretty wide majority saying the exact opposite of your "no agenda at all line" citing the same posting history. Two versions of the same story? Or more people seeing that issue completely opposite of your own opinions? It's funny that months later you cite a posting history that was the same point the majority of those posting there used to suggest the purpose of that thread was less than positive.

It's all there, read it. And we had a case where a majority of those posting there were questioning the motives of the person starting the thread just as was done here in this one, whether it's about a person or the album or whatever else.

Get the facts straight before getting into the "nice try" territory. Some of us here perfected those tactics years ago and can spot them a mile away in a dense fog.

Mike's Beard:

We can't, he quit not long after the NPP Police gave him endless sh*t for the thread.
That's what he told you, I assume?
I'm guessing he quit.

Or maybe he woke up one morning after being a poster on here for many years and just randomly decided he didn't like The Beach Boys no more?

Facts: The account was closed May 29th or in the days surrounding it. The so-called "NPP Police" thread stalled out in mid-April. Unless "long after" means six weeks or so in message board standards, I'd say 6 weeks is a decent amount of time to keep posting and logging on before closing up shop.

Fact: You spoke as if you were in contact, or were pals, I don't know what's up. That's why I asked if he told you that. The actual "reasons" I saw and read and heard were actually posted quite openly and publicly. And beyond that, there were issues that went beyond and into some wild places, if I may say so. Not good.

I will say this non-issue of the "NPP Police" meant nothing. Neither did the supposed thread where these NPP Police came in swinging imaginary truncheons and drove anyone off the board after posting negative reviews.

It's fine to support a mate whose opinions and ideas you agree with, but at least get the facts in order, especially before trying to tell the rest of the community something that isn't true.




Are you saying there were two threads with the same title?  This is the one I'm referring to. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=20337.0

And again, your fellow moderator agreed with him, so I guess Billy has an agenda against Brian as well?

Let us know when you've had your say. This is foolish.

Here is the thread with dozens of reviews: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20283.0.html

Here is the one that got posted soon afterward where the original poster of this one was wondering why there were so many bad reviews: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20337.0.html

The one with the dozens of reviews: How did that work out? Time well-spent, or a ridiculous waste of time? A genuine attempt to share with board members, or something less positive by design? What were the reactions? If majority ruled, that thread would have gotten shitcanned before there was a page 2. And the original poster who is no longer on the board...no agenda? Then what were those posting reactions to it saying, were they all just totally wrong? It's in the post history, apparently the same set of facts can be read two different ways. My thoughts are all over that thread, both of them actually.

I LOVE the last post in the second one. A great quote. Notice no one commented since June...not a bit surprised.

So there it is. How much more needs to be done, said, or argued?

Bottom line: You were wrong. You wanted to argue about something which you didn't know enough about to argue. Take away whatever you want from that, but at this point is it enough? Had your say? I hope so.

And this you keep posting about my "fellow mod", I guess you mean Billy, agreeing with something, what exactly are you referring to? In either of those threads? What, exactly? Must be important enough to keep mentioning it. have a point there or is it just to argue even more?

This is the kind of fun the board has, right? Great stuff.

I'll need a bigger scraper after wading through this.

I don't see where I said anything about the length of your posts.  Where was that.

I'll get back to you on the rest.

Yeah, you do that Cam. If you think I'm going to apologize based on your spinning and twisting everything around to fit your argument here, you're Don Quixote chasing those windmills yet again.

I said ***Cincinnatti Kid*** brought up the length of my posts as a little dig which he seems to do quite regularly to posters other than me in the middle of debates where he gets frustrated and resorts to personal jabs instead of the discussion.

I'd also suggest if you want to dig up people's posts from the past, Mike's Beard isn't the best choice since not only was he banned, but he was exposed as a liar who couldn't even be honest about who he was, and decided to leave the board with a parting shot against the people he had issues with.

And, my own two cents as myself here...he was so fucking smart in doing this bullshit that he not only bragged about opening up a phantom account here on the board when he tried to stir the sh*t on Hoffman's board before the mods there pulled the plug on that nonsense, but he also got exposed by not being a good speller, or by not using spell-check so his alias accounts and his primary account didn't misspell the same word between posts.

If you can't keep up with the MIGS, don't fly into MIG Alley. One of the more dumb-assed things I saw happen here.

And consider that because Mike's Beard f***ed up like he did and fumbled the ball, the efforts to have open elections for mods was scuttled after he gave proof that multiple accounts like his would make a fair vote impossible, and it showed yet again how his "campaign" with Andrew Doe to try to f*** me over was not paranoia or tinfoil hat stuff, but was actually real.

So, Cam, if you're pulling old quotes, consider grabbing those quotes from people who were not exposed as liars and frauds through their own actions and dumbass mistakes that exposed them.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 10:03:12 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #571 on: June 12, 2016, 10:20:55 AM »

And Cam...if you're rehashing these issues, let's do it right and do it truthfully.

No one knew why Nicko "quit" the board publicly, but some did privately. So for Cincinnatti Kid or Mike's Beard  or anyone to make statements suggesting reasons why Nicko quit, they would had to have heard it themselves, because he never posted publicly reasons why.

*I* know why he left. Unless Mike's Beard or Cinc Kid had spoken to him, they would not know.

I also know what he tried to pull both here and on the BW board, involving alias accounts, fake names, and a whole load of bizarre subterfuge that no one except a few have any idea about. And well before I was a mod at BW, he tried to sneak on that board under an alias, but like Mike's Beard would do here, f***ed up in the execution enough that a simple question "Is that you Nicko?" after his posting style became transparent enough to spot that he first denied it, then launched into a diatribe about how bad I was, how bad the whole thing was, how i "ruined" SS...and the admin of BW board unfortunately not only banned him, but deleted the posts too. Inside of all that, our favorite fact-checker stood up and vouched for him on BW, in light of what just happened.

Further, again only a few people until now know this, he tried to come back on this board using a different name and different account, and began contacting board members here via PM telling tales and pleading his case with them. When the truth was unraveled, it was like a story told by Baron Von Munchausen or something. Just completely bizarre.

I am not the only one to know this, and what I said there can be backed up. But very few actually know anything about this.

And we also know who was involved, and how there was a similar effort years ago that led to lifetime bans on other boards when these same people started to gang up on certain posters - because they were very vocal fans of Brian Wilson - and began giving them sh*t that crossed many lines and had little to do with "it's all about the music". If they want, they can chime in and add more detail, because it was disgusting and the lifetime bans were more than warranted.

And it also spoke volumes to see the reactions after the curtain was yet again pulled back to reveal someone trying to mask their true identity to evade a ban on one forum, and get back in as an alter ego on a board where they had quit because they thought I "ruined" the board by voicing strong opinions and not agreeing with Andr...oh, never mind.

Consider the sources of so much of this have a history of disrespecting these boards and the people who are members on things as basic as who they are.

And again, if people want to hang with these people and share laughs and whatever else, you know the address.

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« Reply #572 on: June 12, 2016, 11:09:48 AM »

And Cam...if you're rehashing these issues, let's do it right and do it truthfully.

No one knew why Nicko "quit" the board publicly, but some did privately. So for Cincinnatti Kid or Mike's Beard  or anyone to make statements suggesting reasons why Nicko quit, they would had to have heard it themselves, because he never posted publicly reasons why.

*I* know why he left. Unless Mike's Beard or Cinc Kid had spoken to him, they would not know.

I also know what he tried to pull both here and on the BW board, involving alias accounts, fake names, and a whole load of bizarre subterfuge that no one except a few have any idea about. And well before I was a mod at BW, he tried to sneak on that board under an alias, but like Mike's Beard would do here, f***ed up in the execution enough that a simple question "Is that you Nicko?" after his posting style became transparent enough to spot that he first denied it, then launched into a diatribe about how bad I was, how bad the whole thing was, how i "ruined" SS...and the admin of BW board unfortunately not only banned him, but deleted the posts too. Inside of all that, our favorite fact-checker stood up and vouched for him on BW, in light of what just happened.

Further, again only a few people until now know this, he tried to come back on this board using a different name and different account, and began contacting board members here via PM telling tales and pleading his case with them. When the truth was unraveled, it was like a story told by Baron Von Munchausen or something. Just completely bizarre.

I am not the only one to know this, and what I said there can be backed up. But very few actually know anything about this.

And we also know who was involved, and how there was a similar effort years ago that led to lifetime bans on other boards when these same people started to gang up on certain posters - because they were very vocal fans of Brian Wilson - and began giving them sh*t that crossed many lines and had little to do with "it's all about the music". If they want, they can chime in and add more detail, because it was disgusting and the lifetime bans were more than warranted.

And it also spoke volumes to see the reactions after the curtain was yet again pulled back to reveal someone trying to mask their true identity to evade a ban on one forum, and get back in as an alter ego on a board where they had quit because they thought I "ruined" the board by voicing strong opinions and not agreeing with Andr...oh, never mind.

Consider the sources of so much of this have a history of disrespecting these boards and the people who are members on things as basic as who they are.

And again, if people want to hang with these people and share laughs and whatever else, you know the address.



Ah yes, the delightful Nicko, who shares all the charm of Mike's Beard - attacking any fan of Brian Wilson, with multiple id's.  It's gotten quite old.  These fools post freely elsewhere and they are pretty obvious.  I have no real idea what their personal issues are, although there have been some rather obvious clues (they get nuts when a woman posts, for instance).  I'm just glad that they're not here, for now as far as I know.  Until they use some masking device to show up again.  I really didn't interact with Nicko all that much, but I saw what he did to other BW fans - or tried to do.  They seemed fairly undaunted by that sad little creature.  Sad little creatures...
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« Reply #573 on: June 12, 2016, 05:33:09 PM »

Despite what you believe, I posted the link to the FULL thread for anyone who wanted to go back and read it. I posted the long thread tree that led to Billy and I discussing it off the board, which we did, and that led to the "timeout".

What isn't there because it wasn't in the tree of quotes, and which was not 'selective editing' on my part but rather something that just wasn't included in the quotes, was the post where I put direct links to both "NPP reviews" threads, the original one from Nicko and the follow up that came after. Whatever confusion there was, both threads/topics were referenced by direct links.


Cam: Why are you pushing this issue? You want to make me apologize for what and to whom, exactly?

Let's take your original comments as well.

Who was the first in any of that to take a personal shot at another person in the conversation?

You tried to argue how "calm and polite" the Kid was and how he "stuck to the point"...by making a crack about my "long essays", and this was after he also upset Billy by not being more careful wording his comments...or thinking them out before posting. Which is why Billy responded as he did, and which is why we took it off the board to discuss what the hell The Kid was trying to say.

Whatever Billy and The Kid followed up with and discussed, that's between them. If Billy apologized, that's between him and The Kid and I have no idea what they discussed.

But I will not be harangued into apologizing for things that I did not do, or for someone who decided to escalate into personal things and take shots, beyond just me and including dragging Billy into it which was the clincher for that timeout.

For the record, "Nicko" was part of one of the most bizarre series of twists and turns regarding multiple accounts, aliases, and the like, and he had a record of being banned then trying to evade the ban on other forums...for attacking other posters. And despite knowing all of this, and the whole twisted web, a noted fact-checker came on to "vouch" for him. That wasn't surprising considering what was discovered later. I'll leave it at that.


So Cam, if you want to keep dredging up this stuff, it's foolish. It's over. Whether you think I need to apologize or not, I could care less at this point. Anyone who wants to see exactly what happened and what was said publicly, I provided the link(s) and relevant quotes. I won't have this stuff continually used to challenge me or any mod decisions when this was a done deal.

Now what still remains open is the more recent episode where the Cinc Kid said some things that caused yet another dust-up.

Cam, perhaps if you're defending him as strongly and as unwavering as your defense has been, you should consider the possibility that numerous people are reacting to what he's been saying as they have because he is making comments that sound a certain way then defending them, and following it up with personal name calling and shots taken against those questioning him.

At some point, if this has happened on multiple discussions where one poster's comments have triggered such reactions from moderators to board members who have reacted then have had it turn into personal passive-aggressive or even direct shots taken at them, maybe the person who is common to all of these dust-ups should think before posting, and make sure the words are clear.

And the only person who regularly steps up to try to B.S. everyone by saying it's not his fault, as in you Cam, should consider people are not as dumb as you must think and are quite capable of reading what was written. they don't need someone to continually gild the lily by saying how calm and polite The Kid is in all of this when it's not at all coming off that way, especially after calling members trolls and taking another Bgas/Doe/Nicko bullshit crack at my posting style. That's kid's stuff.

Pun not intended.

As  I said and you admit there was significant editing and omission and I helped out by supplying the omitted.

Nicko doesn't matter to the Kid's assertion about criticizing a person, it was introduced by you as part of your off topic criticizing-an-album theme. When you were taunting with what turned out to be Nicko, it wasn't even known to be Nicko but was thought to be ForHerCryingSoul, the OP of the thread you misdirected us all to by quoting the wrong thread title.

A thread was created for this type of thing and it was not right at the time and bothered me then.  Klaas was never involved we know now, Billie has recanted his support and properly made amends (if I understand it correctly) and that just by happenstance leaves only you.

This issue played out in public, I can't have an opinion on something kept secret and is just a whisper campaign so far as most of us are aware.  Is the BS you are accusing me of when I said I understand the words the Kid is saying in his own defense, because the only other thing I've heard so far is snarky vague unsubstantiated accusations and a campaign of word twisting and confusion?

I'll work through these as best I can, the sheer volume is daunting.

Pun not intended.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 09:00:23 AM by Cam Mott » Logged

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« Reply #574 on: June 12, 2016, 05:57:14 PM »

Yeah, you do that Cam. If you think I'm going to apologize based on your spinning and twisting everything around to fit your argument here, you're Don Quixote chasing those windmills yet again.

I said ***Cincinnatti Kid*** brought up the length of my posts as a little dig which he seems to do quite regularly to posters other than me in the middle of debates where he gets frustrated and resorts to personal jabs instead of the discussion.

I'd also suggest if you want to dig up people's posts from the past, Mike's Beard isn't the best choice since not only was he banned, but he was exposed as a liar who couldn't even be honest about who he was, and decided to leave the board with a parting shot against the people he had issues with.

And, my own two cents as myself here...he was so fucking smart in doing this bullshit that he not only bragged about opening up a phantom account here on the board when he tried to stir the sh*t on Hoffman's board before the mods there pulled the plug on that nonsense, but he also got exposed by not being a good speller, or by not using spell-check so his alias accounts and his primary account didn't misspell the same word between posts.

If you can't keep up with the MIGS, don't fly into MIG Alley. One of the more dumb-assed things I saw happen here.

And consider that because Mike's Beard f***ed up like he did and fumbled the ball, the efforts to have open elections for mods was scuttled after he gave proof that multiple accounts like his would make a fair vote impossible, and it showed yet again how his "campaign" with Andrew Doe to try to f*** me over was not paranoia or tinfoil hat stuff, but was actually real.

So, Cam, if you're pulling old quotes, consider grabbing those quotes from people who were not exposed as liars and frauds through their own actions and dumbass mistakes that exposed them.

That second sentence is rich, coming from you.

"You tried to argue how "calm and polite" the Kid was and how he "stuck to the point"...by making a crack about my "long essays" ". You should more carefully word your posts (pretty rich coming from me, right) because that still reads as you accusing me of the crack.

Mike's Beard has nothing to do with this, so why would I do any of that?

« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 06:03:03 PM by Cam Mott » Logged

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