DYLW was part of Heroes

[The Old Master Painter]

Worms has always been associated with Heroes since the day it surfaced. Why?

I actually heard a vintage 1966 BW acetate which only lasted for 40-50 seconds to about a minute, but it incorporated some parts of DYLW within Heroes. Is this why Brian made Bicycle Rider the chorus to the "single" version of Heroes in 1967 in the first place? I find this hard to believe, but it's quite an interesting theory. Would anyone like to weigh in on this?

[The Old Master Painter]

Worms has always been associated with Heroes since the day it surfaced. Why?

I actually heard a vintage 1966 BW acetate which only lasted for 40-50 seconds to about a minute, but it incorporated some parts of DYLW within Heroes. Is this why Brian made Bicycle Rider the chorus to the "single" version of Heroes in 1967 in the first place? I find this hard to believe, but it's quite an interesting theory. Would anyone like to weigh in on this?

The acetate starts with Bicycle Rider, then goes off into the "I've been in this town" verse.

[c-man]

The "why" "and "is this why" questions are un-answerable. But Brian also used musical themes in other parts of SMiLE that were from yet other, seemingly unrelated parts of SMiLE. I THINK he was making some connection between the Plymouth Rock to Hawaii theme of "Worms" with the Old West theme of "H&V" - but SMiLE was conceived as one big, interlocking "teenage symphony to God", and symphonies contain motifs that cycle throughout - so not unexpected at all that there are connections from one song to another.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Personally I see a lot more in common between Worms and Cabin, and in the last few years I have persuaded myself to believe that had the album come out in 66/67, these two tracks would have been side by side. But certainly Heroes would have been close to these tracks as well.

[Bicyclerider]

Bicycle Rider from Worms was at one point considered as a "Part 2" to Heroes, replacing Great Shape.  But preceding the first verse? That's news to me.  Is this one of the Durrie Parks' acetates?  Were there vocals on the "I've been in this town" section, or could that have been a third verse section?  Has this acetate been booted?

[zosobird]

Personally I see a lot more in common between Worms and Cabin, and in the last few years I have persuaded myself to believe that had the album come out in 66/67, these two tracks would have been side by side. But certainly Heroes would have been close to these tracks as well.

well, at one time they were considered to be conjoined, however this concept did not stick.
http://migratingtaste.oldeenglish.org/junk/cabinessence.jpg

back to back songs, could've been

[zosobird]

Bicycle Rider from Worms was at one point considered as a "Part 2" to Heroes, replacing Great Shape.  But preceding the first verse? That's news to me.  Is this one of the Durrie Parks' acetates?  Were there vocals on the "I've been in this town" section, or could that have been a third verse section?  Has this acetate been booted?

first i've heard of BR preceding HV. There are test edits of HV > BR, but not the other way around. OMP, what is this acetate that you heard that has BR > HV?

[Andrew G. Doe]

That "Worms" and "Heroes" shared musical themes became (reasonably) common knowledge over thirty years ago, when the tapes entered wider circulation.

[yonderhillside]

Now, when you say "Bicycle Rider" do you mean it has the piano with the BR lyrics over it or just the piano theme. Sometimes I don't know which you folks are referring to. With the lyric, now that'd be an interesting, alternate, introduction to the song.

[mike moseley]

do you mean BR as heard in 'Worms'..?  the same parts..?

I've never heard of this version - where did you hear it..?

cheers

Worms has always been associated with Heroes since the day it surfaced. Why?

I actually heard a vintage 1966 BW acetate which only lasted for 40-50 seconds to about a minute, but it incorporated some parts of DYLW within Heroes. Is this why Brian made Bicycle Rider the chorus to the "single" version of Heroes in 1967 in the first place? I find this hard to believe, but it's quite an interesting theory. Would anyone like to weigh in on this?

[The Old Master Painter]

I've just messaged my source about the acetate, and whether I could post a link to it or not. Very interesting stuff.

[The_Holy_Bee]

I actually heard a vintage 1966 BW acetate which only lasted for 40-50 seconds to about a minute, but it incorporated some parts of DYLW within Heroes.

Fascinating if this is a pre-Jan '67 edit. How do you know this acetate was produced 1966? Is there a date on the disc?

[chaki]

I've just messaged my source about the acetate, and whether I could post a link to it or not. Very interesting stuff.

*gets popcorn*

[The Old Master Painter]

Alrightey people, grab your popcorn, and worms? Here it is, the infamous acetate I was talking about... I do mention this might not be the "complete" acetate but an excerpt of most of it. I've gotta go back to my source for some more questions... In the meantime, make what you want of this! Enjoy.

Heroes and Villains (1966-1967?) acetate: vimeo.com/155754389

(Copy and paste the link onto a web browser)...

[The Old Master Painter]

I actually heard a vintage 1966 BW acetate which only lasted for 40-50 seconds to about a minute, but it incorporated some parts of DYLW within Heroes.

Fascinating if this is a pre-Jan '67 edit. How do you know this acetate was produced 1966? Is there a date on the disc?

Sorry! I don't know why I wrote '66! 

[Jeff]

 

So of the five that you have up there, are all of them actual acetates, or are some of them reconstructions of what might have been?  Certainly interesting, to say the least.

[Wrightfan]

So of the five that you have up there, are all of them actual acetates, or are some of them reconstructions of what might have been?  Certainly interesting, to say the least.

I was just about to ask the same thing myself.

Edit 1: Is...is Brian's vocal doubled on the Worms bridge? I've never heard that before.

[seltaeb1012002]

So of the five that you have up there, are all of them actual acetates, or are some of them reconstructions of what might have been?  Certainly interesting, to say the least.

I was just about to ask the same thing myself.

Edit 1: Is...is Brian's vocal doubled on the Worms bridge? I've never heard that before.

Yeah, wow. Sounds like Carl. Definitely never heard that one before.

[yonderhillside]

Hoax! Just kidding. How beautiful. If these are real you're a golden god - and the guy that supplied them.

[Wrightfan]

So of the five that you have up there, are all of them actual acetates, or are some of them reconstructions of what might have been?  Certainly interesting, to say the least.

I was just about to ask the same thing myself.

Edit 1: Is...is Brian's vocal doubled on the Worms bridge? I've never heard that before.

Yeah, wow. Sounds like Carl. Definitely never heard that one before.

You're right, that's definitely not Brian. Sounds like Dennis to my ears though.

There's definitely some acetate material here but I think it's mixed with fan edits.

[Jay]

It's Brian and Mike trading the verses.

[Nile]

So of the five that you have up there, are all of them actual acetates, or are some of them reconstructions of what might have been?  Certainly interesting, to say the least.

I was just about to ask the same thing myself.

Edit 1: Is...is Brian's vocal doubled on the Worms bridge? I've never heard that before.

Yeah, wow. Sounds like Carl. Definitely never heard that one before.

You're right, that's definitely not Brian. Sounds like Dennis to my ears though.

There's definitely some acetate material here but I think it's mixed with fan edits.

I can't hear anything that hasn't been heard before...
Anyway, I agree with qoute, that there's  some acetate material but mixed together (BR-HV verse)..

[Andrew G. Doe]

Agreed, nothing new here except the order of the sections, and that in and of itself proves nothing other than someone has access to editing software. Also, I think the speed is slightly off.

Edit: for clarity, I'm talking about the 1.14 clip that the posted link takes me to.

[seltaeb1012002]

To be fair, it looks like the guy deleted the DYLW acetate we were talking about with the alternate bridge lead.

Though it's entirely possible that clip was already out there, and I just forgot about it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So, why delete it after about 14 hours after all the fuss about it ? I'm beginning to smell rodents...