Awesome New Mike Love Article!!

[Angua]

I've been trying do find any information online today about Mike challenging Murry on the credits issue and can come up with nothing.  I was curious why it seemed that his only action was against Brian not Murry?  I'll go through the books later but if any of you know....

For someone who is so incensed about being omitted from the credits it seemed to take a long time for him to do anything about it - even if he didn't notice anything at first surely he would have noticed not receiving his share on the sale of the catalogue and still he did nothing. 

[Angua]

Mike misses Brian, and he knows many angry people would block him from seeing or even calling Brian on the phone. Only the wives can get in contact and arrange for them to speak.

Going on the article, Mike's wife is a lot keener for him to contact Brian than Mike is.

I think Mike's wife was very aware that she was talking to a reporter.   

[Ang Jones]

OMG, on Rolling Stone's FB page, on their Mike article post, there are like over 400 anti-Mike comments. He is being pummeled! What a disaster this article is for Mike.

Wow. You ain't kidding. 544 comments total, and the consensus ain't pretty. If his aim with the interview was to reframe his legacy, he failed miserably. That's the thing about branding; it's a real bitch to change image brand when it's cemented in the eyes of the public. He knows all about market branding...but now it's all boomeranged on him. Payback's a bitch.

I loved this comment (wish I thought of it... )
"He is the Salieri of the movie Amadeus..."

A friend of mine made a similar comment on Brian's MB ages ago: that Mike had chosen to be Brian's Salieri when he could have been his Pietro Metastasio.

[Smilin Ed H]

Sad thing is that he doesn't seem to get that interviews like this further damage the reputation that his actual legacy  - particularly now he's established that he had a hand in the lyrics of more songs than was thought (though listening to California Girls, i think it's hard not to see Mike all over it) - should ensure is safe. He's sounding like Art Garfunkel in every interview where he whines about Paul Simon not recording with him and not writing for him.

[HeyJude]

I’m really surprised Mike even granted such an interview.

The thing is, he’s living the good life and has seemingly everything going his way now. He has the license to use the BB name, he tours all year (the thing he claims himself is what he likes most). He’s the boss; he doesn’t have to answer to anyone regarding setlist or band composition (he doesn’t even have to compromise with anyone on any of those things). He’s clearly living a privileged life with friends and family members who love him and don’t villainize him.

His touring band is to some degree “critic proof.” He’s been diluting the Beach Boys trademark with his tour for nearly 20 years, rotating backing band members in and out, and apart from some snarky music journalists and hardcore fans, nobody even cares about or questions the “legitimacy” of his touring band. Local newspapers write fluffy pieces about how Mike is “keepin’ the summer alive”, and rarely mention or care that he’s the only original member with several other original members still living and active and willing. Clearly most concertgoers don’t care and enjoy his shows. He’s booking *more* shows now, and all evidence suggest sales are strong.

He *won* the songwriting lawsuit.

What exactly is he disenfranchised about? That’s the question. And the answer more and more appears to be simply that people don’t like him or respect him as much as Brian Wilson. It shockingly seems to really be that simple apparently. Make no mistake, there are all kinds of business machinations and interpersonal grudges that inform all of this stuff too. The whole Al Jardine sidebar thing has been explored very little, and probably never will be.

But all of that *good* stuff above, he’s not content with all of that. He still needs to know why people think he’s an a-hole. He *still* doesn’t get it. Is he being totally obtuse, as the Rolling Stone article suggests? Maybe.

But, as Howie Edelson has mentioned, there is a larger picture here, and I think Mike is a sharp guy and knows that he’s going down in history as the “Salieri” figure. He’s successful in the moment, largely by paying to use the “Beach Boys” name. But his touring format is indeed fading him more and more into Frankie Valli/Lou Christie territory. I think Mike is fine with that in the moment, but he also realizes his legacy is being torn to shreds. The irony is that his attitude and demeanor actually probably undercuts the credit he *should* get as a key part of the Beach Boys story/music/history.

So I think he’s aware enough to try to patch up his legacy and perception. But he and/or his advisors are doing a horrible job. They still haven’t caught on that trying to tear down Brian Wilson in any way is *always* going to make him look worse, especially when Brian takes the high road and will still say Mike’s a great lyricist and frontman when asked about it in interviews. Stuff like Mike’s attitude towards the “Love & Mercy” film (and also, from what I’ve heard, there’s far more to the story than Mike simply being told to “go buy a ticket like everyone else”), his insistence on pumping up the Stamos/Kokomo aspect of the group’s history as if it’s right up there with “Pet Sounds” and 1965-66, all that stuff is burying his legacy. An ounce of humility would help Mike so much. The 2012 reunion had the appearance of some humility and harmony (in actions more than any words), but it continues to look more and more like that was just a short-term one-shot moneymaking deal.

[HeyJude]

I've been trying do find any information online today about Mike challenging Murry on the credits issue and can come up with nothing.  I was curious why it seemed that his only action was against Brian not Murry?  I'll go through the books later but if any of you know....

For someone who is so incensed about being omitted from the credits it seemed to take a long time for him to do anything about it - even if he didn't notice anything at first surely he would have noticed not receiving his share on the sale of the catalogue and still he did nothing. 

It appears to have been Brian winning his suit against the publisher who bought the catalog from Murry that moved Mike's lawsuit into action.

If Brian had the support system back during the songwriting lawsuit that he had now, I don't think that suit would have turned out the same. I would guess his team would have agreed to adding Mike's name, settled out of court, and defended Brian in settlement discussions on a few key songs that perhaps they felt Mike didn't contribute to enough to warrant a credit (e.g. "Wouldn't It Be Nice").

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

OMG, on Rolling Stone's FB page, on their Mike article post, there are like over 400 anti-Mike comments. He is being pummeled! What a disaster this article is for Mike.

  Add to the many sites that express readers disdain for myKe luHv which far exceeds a cult following and on a somewhat daily basis. His rep is a piece of overdone toast.

[KDS]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

[HeyJude]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

If a songwriter gets a credit on a song, whatever the actual royalty split is, it doesn't delineate which lyrics they wrote. So I don't think it would matter.

To my recollection as well, the songs all read "Word and Music by Brian Wilson and Mike Love", as opposed to "Words by Mike Love, Music by Brian Wilson" or "Words by Brian Wilson and Mike Love, Music by Brian Wilson."

I believe someone pointed out quite a ways back that Mike probably doesn't even get a 50/50 split on Brian/Mike songs his name is on. Indeed, my guess is that Brian wrote more words than Mike wrote music on those songs. So while he gets "equal billing" in the credits, he may only get, say, 50% of the "lyrics" half, or 25% overall. As a random example. I don't know what the actual split is.

[SamMcK]

The thing is that Mike came SO close with the 2012 tour to redeeming himself for a lot of people, slowly but surely. Of course that's completely plummeted since. *sigh* The way to gaining back some of his credibility, humbleness aside would be to support rather than attack his old songwriting partner.

[HeyJude]

The thing is that Mike came SO close with the 2012 tour to redeeming himself for a lot of people, slowly but surely. Of course that's completely plummeted since. *sigh* The way to gaining back some of his credibility, humbleness aside would be to support rather than attack his old songwriting partner.

In a weird way, it kind of makes sense though. As I've often said, even some of the most grizzled, skeptical, cynical fans were won over by Mike in 2012.

And what happened? Mike walked, didn't like a bunch of aspects of it, etc.

So it all makes more sense. Mike doesn't show in interviews a particularly strong amount of humility and running the Beach Boys by committee. What did the 2012 tour and album entail? Brian writing most of the album, Brian getting more applause every night, and a tour operation made up of a bunch of Brian's guys and with other "corporate" Beach Boys members having a say (though Al kinda really didn't have any say when you really look at it).

It looks to me more and more like someone found a huge hunk of money to make the tour happen, and the money was too good to refuse. Eventually, even the prospect of more offers wasn't enough to make up for the all the perceived negatives.

[joshferrell]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

[KDS]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

My concern there would be The Beach Boys ending their studio career with a really mediocre album.  I'm a big fan of TWGMTR, and I put From There to Back Again / Pacific Coast Highway / Summer's Gone up there with the perfect ending The Beatles had - Golden Slumbers / Carry That Weight / The End. 

Even if the two never work together again (which gets more and more likely), I think it would be good for both of them if they just get together in a room together and have a long talk as cousins / friends. 

[Robbie Mac]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

Team Brian looks bad in all of this? How? Mike in 2012 already got more than he actually deserved.

[Cam Mott]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

Here's what's weird, the same people who claim that this is Mike's lyric also complain because he got credit for it.

[HeyJude]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

While not the exact ideal scenario, something like this could be (or could have been) possibly achieved with better management.

But is all Mike lyrics a good thing? Someone name the last album made of nothing but Brian Wilson/Mike Love tunes....

Also, there's no evidence that Mike would want an Al song on the album (at least one person, Larry Dvoskin, claims Love "c**k-blocked" Al's song from being on TWGMTR, his words, weigh them accordingly of course).

I think the reason this pitch is problematic is that it pre-supposes "Brian's people" didn't allow Mike to write songs with Brian. That's wrong on two counts. There's strong evidence nobody was standing in their way for huge hunks of time, and Brian *did* have Mike add lyrics to 1/4 of the songs on the album, in addition to having Mike fly one of his own songs in.

Mike wrote or co-wrote 1/3 of the TWGMTR album.

[KDS]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

Here's what's weird, the same people who claim that this is Mike's lyric also complain because he got credit for it.

Quite frankly, if he wrote it, or sang it at the end of the song while recording, then I'm fine with him getting credit for it. 

I could just see a scenario where, had the lawsuit gone a different way, and Mike's name left off the credits for WIBN, Brian's lawyers advising him to leave that couplet out of live versions. 

[SamMcK]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

The truth is, Mike can't write a very decent set of lyrics these days without completely rehashing the past. Or at least a tune that's worth putting on an official release. That's just my opinion, but i'd rather Brian write the songs that he wants to rather than being pushed into it. He wrote songs with Van Dyke, Tony Asher, Roger Christian and Gary Usher etc. but there's never been a stipulation for who he writes songs with. (and there shouldn't be!) The biggest problem if they decided to make another album is striking a balance to protect egos.

Honestly though, a new Beach Boys album could do wonders with Brian in the right mindset, Mike, Brian and Al having a decent share of leads each, some nice Dave guitars solos, couple of Mike songs, maybe a Blondie vocal. Honestly I would MUCH RATHER have Matt Jardine doing the falsetto than Jeff Foskett but even then i'd love an album with the Beach Boys vocals pushed out front. If they sound aged or creaky than that's honestly natural. It'd be nice to have an album that shows them as older guys, reflecting back on their long history together. Put in a few re-recorded versions of songs like Midnight's Another Day and Southern California and maybe some tunes that didn't make it to the last album ala Waves of Love and Don't Fight The Sea. (Yes I know it's on Al's solo album) They could try and find a Carl vocal or two from the vaults, perhaps the touching piano version of God Only Knows from 1995:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHXAkq10D8g


They don't even need to tour it! Just put a new album out every few years and the fans'll buy it by the truckload.

[HeyJude]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

Here's what's weird, the same people who claim that this is Mike's lyric also complain because he got credit for it.

Of course, because there are a myriad of examples of people writing one phrase or word or line for songs and not getting credit for it (and not seeking credit for it). Ringo should be on a few Lennon/McCartney songs based on this. George Harrison's mother wrote a line for "Piggies." Donovan helped write "Yellow Submarine." Ringo wrote a line for Cream's "Badge." None of these people sued for credit.

It's not to say Mike shouldn't have gotten credit. But there's no reason for incredulity when faced with someone who acknowledges Mike wrote a single line and also thinks he shouldn't have received a writer's credit for it.

[CenturyDeprived]

What Brian's people should do is call Mike and say that they want to do a new Beach Boys album and Mike can write the lyrics to all the songs, that way he will stop whining about it and get Al, Bruce, and David back on the project and we will get one more Beach Boys album, sure it may end up like MIU but at least we will get one more album...This will make Mike look better with people, it will make Brian's people look better with people (for not allowing Mike to write on TWGMTR) and it will make us all happy to have a new Beach Boys album,, Al can also place a song on the album too... so all around it would turn out good for all involved.

But what if Brian wants an album without recycled lyrical references to old songs and old song titles? Not that Brian's never ever done similar retreads, but with Mike it's really, really, really egregious. I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see them write an album the way they did in the old days, but it ain't gonna happen precisely because Mike wants it to happen too much, and once the floodgates are open for Mike getting his FULL, unquestioned way in any aspect of the band, it never leads to a good outcome, with some occasional isolated exceptions.

Mike is best utilized when Brian utilizes Mike's talents in the manner of Brian's choosing.  Or when Mike collaborates with Al (yet now Al is obviously thought of by Mike as chopped liver). When these things happened historically, it showed Mike COULD in fact shine. Brian had an uncanny knack for knowing how to use Mike's voice when it sounded super, like in the Til I Die tag, for example. But Mike's ego has gotten so warped over the last few decades, he's now got the tons of resentment because of the internet, Kokomo not giving Mike Pet Sounds level acclaim, as well as the public adoration that Brian has received in the last couple decades, that it has colored what Mike thinks he has to prove to the world. Mike didn't go complaining to interviewers in the 1960s when Brian decided to write Pet Sounds (breaking his "promise" of writing songs in the Mike-preferred way), but the Mike of today does exactly that, and has thus shown how entitled he feels. The curtain has been pulled back quite a bit. Who wants to work one-on-one for an entire album, with a guy like that who will go to the media giving guilt trips if he doesn't get his way?

How excruciating would it be for Brian to repeatedly challenge Mike of today without someone else helping Brian play defense? Does Brian need that kind of aggravation, or even the potential possibility of it?

Do you honestly not think that Brian would remotely even think or consider, that such type of aggravation could be a very real possibility if your scenario was granted? You could say "well they'll never know if they don't try", but a guy like Brian really needs to not be put through circumstances that could be emotionally draining. Like dealing with an entitled guy making demand after demand.

You know... once the band let Brian back in the driver's seat to be the main guy in charge in 1976/1977, and the band had issues with the results... well, control was wrestled back away from Brian for the next record. I'm not sure how it makes any sort of sense for the guy who, when given the level of control of the BBs' name that Brian had in 1976/1977, cranks out the albums Summer In Paradise and NASCAR, to not accept that he should cede control for the next record, which was the very album he demanded be done his way. That's Mike Love logic.

[Cam Mott]

Here's an interesting hypothetical..

If Brian had a legal team that barred Mike from receiving a credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice, would Brian and his band still sing the "Good Night, Baby..." portion of the song in concert?   Or would they skip that part?

Here's what's weird, the same people who claim that this is Mike's lyric also complain because he got credit for it.

Of course, because there are a myriad of examples of people writing one phrase or word or line for songs and not getting credit for it (and not seeking credit for it). Ringo should be on a few Lennon/McCartney songs based on this. George Harrison's mother wrote a line for "Piggies." Donovan helped write "Yellow Submarine." Ringo wrote a line for Cream's "Badge." None of these people sued for credit.

It's not to say Mike shouldn't have gotten credit. But there's no reason for incredulity when faced with someone who acknowledges Mike wrote a single line and also thinks he shouldn't have received a writer's credit for it.

He deserves credit but he shouldn't have gotten it. 

[Doo Dah]

I guess Ringo deserves credit for Tomorrow Never Knows.

When the change comes to 7 cents, Mike scoops up the change and puts it in his pocket.  

[HeyJude]

Mike did mention in an interview once that when he sings songs in concert, and I'm paraphrasing here, he hears the ringing of a cash register.

[Cam Mott]

It's not like he wrote one line of California Girls, I mean Wouldn't It Be Nice, and then took all of the lyric credit.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's not like he wrote one line of California Girls, I mean Wouldn't It Be Nice, and then took all of the lyric credit.

No, but he did take credit for the fact that the Beach Boys mean so much to so many people.