Mike's band

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

A lot to read through, but I have to comment on something right away... I don't know who 'beachballtwo' is or why he seems to have a problem with me, but

The two main American moderators are both Brian fans with mostly negative views of the Beach Boys and especially Mike.

is patently false. I don't have a negative view of the Beach Boys at all, or Mike. For starters, I've always felt AND said that the best period of the Beach Boys was 1967-1972, when Brian WASN'T the main creative force. As far as Mike goes, I've *never* put down Mike's contributions to the band, and in fact I'm one of the few here who actually really likes Looking Back With Love.

I'm honestly speechless right now. And the thing about me being biased (at least I think it was directed to me) is crazy, considering I banned a good friend from the board. Still talk to him often , but not gonna reinstate him.

And OSD changed his name BEFORE the ignore function (which I do agree the ignore function was a GREAT idea...if I'd had any kind of coding ability, I would've done that a long time ago), because he had issues logging in.

I also hope the 'bizarre behavior' wasn't a swipe at me when I went through a severe depression after my stroke 4 years ago.

I'm honestly at a loss right now. I dunno. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive right now.

[guitarfool2002]

The advice to ignore and avoid interaction was given numerous times to numerous people by numerous mods, up to and including this week. It's sad that the advice was ignored for so long, even more sad that adults interacting with each other would need to create and install a device instead of following the simple advice that has been given all along.

Now we have this. Rip people apart, and do so on other forums.

Tell me about slander again?

[ontor pertawst]

On the plus side, at least we don't have eyeball-bleeding yellow backgrounds and formatting seemingly devised by Satan himself here. I can see why they'd want to shove you guys out and take over here... that freakin' yellow!

All pretty petty political sh*t and posturing, authoritarians without authority are always a bit of a headache under the best circumstances. Fanning the flames, making it worse, classic baiting... This drama is getting out of hand!

The mods here generally do a great job. And explain themselves in endless detail to people that don't respect them. Kicking them while they're down and pretending you're doing it out of some noble purpose instead of being just as vicious as the trolls you bemoan is pretty silly. Somebody properly sort out ignore filters if old-fashioned manual ignoring doesn't work. Either that or maybe we can all meet and have a knife fight or something while singing at the same time.

Unlocking this one in light of some new developments. Some feel that the advice or actions taken by the mods warranted a reaction like the one seen in the discussion you can find at this link: http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1448346206.56746&user=bellagio

And in the transcript below.

This is disgusting. Is this the kind of atmosphere the consensus wants to see on this or any board community?

Is it in any way coincidental that the loudest criticisms in this discussion elsewhere the loudest voices on this board calling for the moderators to do what they would like to see done...and if not, I guess it justifies personally ripping the moderators apart as they see fit? Slander? Or just disgusting behavior from adults who should know better, especially in personal interactions?

And it says a lot about the character involved in doing this that it couldn't be done one-on-one, but had to be plastered all over other BB related message communities. Is that what the consensus wants here? Don't agree with the moderators' decisions?

Go to other forums and try to ruin their names.

That's what people want?

I'd also like to ask the other admin and mod of the other forum why this was allowed to stand on that board as people not even connected were being ripped apart, while those doing the ripping apart are calling for so much on this board at the same time.

Here it is, the posts in question and some removed that weren't a part of this mess...read the entire sad saga at the link.





Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 24, 2015 at 06:23:26 by AGD

The rumour is, it buckled under the weight of increasingly inane posts. Abnormal service will be resumed shortly. Maybe.




Re(3): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 24, 2015 at 19:11:19 by AGD

Pretty much the same name, but he was banned permanently. Then someone decided to allow him back. As they say, epic fail.


Re(4): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 25, 2015 at 22:50:18 by beachballtwo

That board should be designated as a Brian Wilson board instead of a Beach Boys board. The two main American moderators are both Brian fans with mostly negative views of the Beach Boys and especially Mike. I think even Brian's people know that, and given the fact that board gets way more traffic than the Blueboard, no wonder they had Brian do a Q and A there. I don't know why people who like the touring Beach Boys even bother posting there. It would save time and bother.


Re(5): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 27, 2015 at 04:54:51 by LeeMarshall

Smiley Smile board currently a downer...is a more appropriate 'heading'.

Hope they 'fix it' soon...'cause right now it's dang close to being an ongoing, unwavering and unceasing waste of time.

At least that's the way it is for me.


Re(6): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:04:09 by beachballtwo

They made a very poor choice of moderator replacement last time there was an opening. Perhaps best to leave it at that. I also don't get the whole obsession with PM's on that board. Boards should not really need a PM function, and many if not most music boards don't have them. It also encourages clique-like behavior that goes unseen. Also, when appointing a moderator, it's best to find a person who has a good nature instead of an incredibly thin skin and who takes everything personally, regardless of their point of view on the topics at hand.



Re(7): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 27, 2015 at 14:58:48 by filledeplage

beachballtwo - I happen to like and respect the mods but posters should be respectful of all The Beach Boys and fellow posters.

We can all have favorites, or not, but should respect the work of all the musicians who have blessed us with their respective contributions.

They are knowledgeable but they shouldn't have to be babysitters or hall monitors.



Re(: Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 27, 2015 at 15:17:25 by beachballtwo

Moderators are supposed to moderate. A fine job would be not allowing that stuff to spiral out of control. But maybe no one with a thick skin and time to read every thread was willing to do that unpaid job. As it is, that board not only discourages good posters from posting, but from reading. I only visit for schaudenfreude, or however you spell it. It is sort of funny.



Re(9): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 28, 2015 at 16:32:59 by Steve Murphy

I don't know enough to make an informed opinion, but I do remember thinking, on a few occasions, that one of the moderators demonstrated somewhat bizarre behaviour.



Re(10): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 28, 2015 at 18:17:36 by beachballtwo

Depends on what you mean by bizarre. But it's more the unseen moderating, or lack of, that is a problem. It is letting a couple of posters or so get away with contributing nothing but a bunch of nonsensical thread trolling. Then the larger problem of people getting too personal and insulting each other and not much getting done about it. A whole other layer of drama involving private messages. But it may be down to the posters themselves. The level of discussion has been going down to a childish level even outside of the trolling and insults. Lots of repetition of subjects and threads that go on for ten pages or more with no info added. It used to be sometimes informative, even for a subject about which pretty much everything has been said.


"Everyones afraid to post on here."
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 14:15:36 by AGD

The two dozen (give or take) responses in this thread would seem to argue strongly against your premise... and if you believe there's bullying here, I strongly suggest you avoid Smiley Smile.




Re(13): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 29, 2015 at 22:30:29 by beachballtwo

I think maybe the Beach Boys as a subject are all talked out. It's all been done. A reunion (while it lasted), Smile completed, now the officially sanctioned Brian biopic. So many books written. So many posts posted on message boards in so many iterations, back to the white board, Male Ego, the Deja news groups, PSML, etc. Enough!




Re(14): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 30, 2015 at 03:20:31 by LeeMarshall

That's it really. Except for new releases and special upcoming events it has ALL been said...dozens upon dozens of times...plus one.

Problem is...we older fans who basically 'went it' alone until we all came together to discover what a mass of humanity we are collectively on-line...don't want to go back to doing 'it' all alone again.

These boards empowered us...as a team. It's why we don't suffer trolls gladly...or do-nothing 'monitors' who won't face the issues which matter.

But ya. It's all been said. All of it.





Re(16): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 3, 2015 at 03:51:38 by LeeMarshall

True. Context is SO key. Resulting contextual ramifications too. Anyway...we all have so much in common. And we fight? About what? About minutia and b.s.

And Mods allow that to occur ad infinitum...and for the incessant baiting to continue? And for the board to collapse under it's own self-inflicted weight of the pointless confrontational loathing?

Couple that with "it's all been said before" and we'll soon be floating on a few rafts over an ever expanding sea of neglect and indifference.

It's our destiny 'filled'.

And I don't like it.



Re(17): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 3, 2015 at 14:36:17 by filledeplage

Lee - historical context is everything in music and art and always has been. The BB's are no different. We've had a lot of "practice" in defense of the music. So, bring it on.

It is important that this nonsense be challenged and that we aren't run off a forum for expressing neutrality and balance with regard the music. The BB's are each, extraordinarily gifted and brought much to that banquet table.

The mods do have a really hard job, balancing "behavior and censorship" - and that must be dealt with. There are too many knowledgeable contributors on that board to have a few, whose behavior is unacceptable to run good posters off the road.

It is our destiny only if we accept it. And I am not accepting it. I've (we've) had a lot of practice.




Re(17): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 3, 2015 at 06:19:54 by beachballtwo

Well, anyone can see for themselves the dysfunctional moderating, when there is a very recent post that runs on for paragraphs, attacking several posters over there by name. And not only does a moderator not remove it or move it, he chimes in, basically agreeing with the guy. I am really not sure why the uber Brian fans don't move over to the Blue board if they hate any type of perceived criticism of Brian and his team. The Blueboard could use the traffic, because it seems to get very few page views, last I looked. They think Brian needs to feel more love from the fans, yet they don't go to his message board instead.




Re(18): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 07:29:28 by AGD

The current problems with Smiley Smile are twofold.

1 - The trolling by Smile Brian & Old Surfer Dude. They contribute nothing and disrupt any given thread with their juvenile, incessant posting on one, threadbare topic... and yet, nothing is done. Happily, in the last 24 hours, the sainted Andrew Hickey has developed a little script you can add to Firefox and Chrome browsers that reduces their twaddle to "This poster is ignored". I made it work in under five minutes, and I'm technologically illiterate. Here 'tis:

http://andrewhickey.info/the-smiley-smile-ignore-button-sort-of/

If I had a mortal soul, it would be his in perpetuity.

2 - the appointment of guitarfool2002 as a mod has proven to be a calamitous mistake. As noted above, he's too thin skinned, not even close to impartial, pursues vendettas at brain-numbing length and is not above trying to disrupt a thread by introducing irrelevant points. Billy & Klass (both fine people and excellent mods) have been otherwise occupied of late with real life problems, and that the board has got into its present state with one active mod is surely not coincidental.




Re(19): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 17:57:43 by beachballtwo

I have not posted on that board in well over a year, but when I did participate, I recall getting a PM that indicated guitarfool had a lot of so-called friends on the board. That was before he was appointed moderator. So I do think there are hidden cliques that exist due to the PM function. I'm also not as confident of Billy as most people are. I just have memories of a stunt he pulled during the white/yellow/black board days. I know he was very young then, but it colors my perception. Oh,well, it's not that big of a deal. Most people would not want that gig.





Re(20): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 18:19:04 by filledeplage

BB2 - GF brings a lot of knowledge to the board and I would hate to see any of them go. And these are not first time offenders. GF and the other mods had to go out on a limb to lift the sanctions against the perps.

So now, the behavior has reverted to pre-banning, and unfortunately posters are leaving for no reason other than the constant untenable trolling. They could be regretting that their good faith has been breached. The mods gave reprieves that may have been proven to have been a really bad decision.

All that is needed is enforcement of the existing rules.




Re(21): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 20:05:41 by beachballtwo

There is a difference between being a poster and a moderator. GF was thin skinned and argumentative as a poster. Being informative does not change that basic quality. Not a good quality to have for a mod, which made his selection surprising. No wonder fewer people post there. He has a really low threshold of what he finds to be anti-Brian. He also seems to have been the one who invented the Mike agenda garbage. I am a Brian fan, but I don't get why anyone is required to like NPP or believe that Brian did absolutely everything including pick every guest artist. If Brian had done it all without the assistance of Mr. Joe Thomas, I suspect it would have been a better album than it is.





Re(22): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 22:49:48 by AGD

The thing is, too many posters - mods included - are taking the "look, respect each other, be reasonable and we'll all get along" route. Which is fine, if everyone was respectful and reasonable. Snag is, at least two (three guesses...) aren't. Smile Brian keeps accusing me of having an agenda, which is odd considering his/her agenda is more transparent and vitriolic than any I might have. OSD is just a troll, and for someone in his late 60s, that's (to be polite) unseemly. What many of us cannot fathom is why they seem to have the tacit "protection" of the mods. Maybe the board will have to fall apart before action is taken.





Re(23): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 5, 2015 at 00:27:46 by beachballtwo

I don't think they really are even attempting to warn people to stop, though. They're just refusing to engage while tacitly approving of the two trolls in question. Who don't really write posts, but emoticons and random short babbling. At least one of the mods, who shall remain nameless, discussed going for an after show drink with surfer man, so I think you know why that mod has not banned him.

I think the board is slightly chilled, too, by having associates of Brian and Mike post there, not to mention Brian and Mike themselves going on there for brief times. It justifies people accusing others of having an agenda, as well as the admonishment that people need to be more respectful in case sensitive Brian reads it from time to time. No one will ever say that Mike Love is particularly sensitive, so maybe they figure it's okay to say bad things about him, continuously and without end and to the point of boring-ness, until even Mike dislikers get tired of it. How many woots, ,and myke luvs and brooth posts can anyone bear to read?





Re(24): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 5, 2015 at 01:30:41 by filledeplage

BB2 - People in this BB sphere are bound to cross paths socially. There were so few "like minded" that it is such a treat to meet up and discuss the music that has occupied a corner of your life. And the risk being a huge fan, is that you could talk all night, after "last call."

What gets me is the basic disrespect that some (and everyone has his or her own preferences) have such that everything is "personal" - and they can't get beyond these differences and have a civil, adult conversation. This band came from the "same place." And you are talking about someone's family. It is classless and tasteless.

When you're a mod, there is a "line"just like the classroom, and mods are on one side and posters are on the other. And, maybe it is easier to ask a buddy to please "dial it back" because the mods get the blowback, and these guys volunteer their time and talent.

But at a certain point, even a volunteer needs to "pull the plug" on an acquaintance if that person becomes so disruptive it taints the whole board and becomes contentious. And if the poster was a true friend, he/she would just leave and not compromise the friendship to the point that it hurt the cred of the mod.

Should nothing happen, I guess the words of my mother echo, if band members are reading the board, and they should just "consider the source." Just write them off.




Re(25): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 5, 2015 at 23:26:45 by beachballtwo

Old surfer dude changed his screen name recently to override the ignore hack. I don't think the mods would ban him no matter what he does.





Re(15): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:30:48 by jh1522

Sadly I Have to agree with you, it has all been said over and over again.

But my point was and still is?, if people were allowed to make some harmless comment's, or try and get a discussion going about some BBs album, concert, songs, or god forbid just make an honest opinion about the band we love, I really do think we would have a lot more people posting on here.

After all we are all on here for the same reason.
Because were all very passionate about the BBs.




Re(12): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 4, 2015 at 09:43:48 by Val

Fair comment, John, but I thin the couple of aforementioned folk on the SS Board go way beyond having a "fun discussion" and turn everything into, well...have a look for yourself.

These days, I never post on the SS Board and don't look at it very much at all, either. The reason? Basically, the two Andrews as stated above have said it all.

God Bless Billy and Klass, though. Good Guys.

[adamghost]

Huh.  Weeelll...yeah.

I can understand how the moderators must feel in reading this, particularly if there's other more important personal stuff going on, but honestly, to my mind compiling all these comments and reposting them here and then re-opening the thread doesn't do much to counter the perspectives expressed therein (and I didn't post any of them myself, for the record), or make people feel more comfortable in the free flow of thought here.  

Whenever we're on the receiving end of this kind of thing, there's an opportunity to reflect and improve, and there's an opportunity to be defensive and angry and hurt.  The latter is understandable because no criticism is ever totally fair or warranted, particularly when we're doing the best we know how.  No one likes to read sh*t about this themselves - I've been there, actually...far worse stuff than this.  I once had an entire website, plus a bulletin board, devoted solely to the proposition that I am an a**hole.  So I totally get it.  The former reaction - to reflect - is more productive, though, because most criticism, however poorly phrased or possibly unfair or hurtful, does have a kernel of truth to reflect and grow with, particularly if it comes from multiple sources.

Ironically, I can remember once expressing similar sentiments here - about music production - that garnered a response that more or less made me stop posting here, because that response seemed rather out of line to me.  So I'm concerned that it's unwise of me to even post - but again, that's not a good feeling to have on a message board, right?

I have a lot of respect for anyone who would want to take on the job of moderating a board.  As I've said before, it's not a job I would want.  That said - compiling a whole bunch of posts on another internet site (Facebook?) of people blowing off steam and who obviously didn't feel comfortable doing it in this venue, and then reposting it here - it's really not cool to me. I think it reinforces some of these criticisms rather than clearing the air and rebutting them.  To me, it isn't constructive, nor positive, nor helpful.  I understand the justification for doing it.  But really, people should have the right to blow off steam on their own pages.  If the stuff was posted here, that would be different.  But it wasn't.  Taking the high road and just letting it go is certainly hard, but in my opinion it would have been the better way to go if the goal here is to help the board thrive.

I hope this will be taken as respectful and with a desire to be constructive, because that is my wish.  I honestly would not post otherwise.  I'm not really that interested in fanning any flames.  Anybody is free to disagree with me and I won't be upset.  I just want to say that this kind of thing, personally, where it appears to me that someone in a position of power is going to extraordinary lengths to "call out" people who post here who were expressing opinions on a different website, doesn't make me particularly feel comfortable contributing on this board.  Just my own reaction, to which I am entitled; please take it as such.

[guitarfool2002]

Beach Boys Britain, Adam, I posted the direct link to the conversation so you can click on it and read it.

Some of the loudest posters calling for respectful behavior and more respectful personal interaction on this forum all this week were at the same time ripping people apart on another Beach Boys forum, and how is that acceptable?

[Mike's Beard]

The advice to ignore and avoid interaction was given numerous times to numerous people by numerous mods, up to and including this week. It's sad that the advice was ignored for so long, even more sad that adults interacting with each other would need to create and install a device instead of following the simple advice that has been given all along.

What is sad is that mods tolerate the endless drivel from two posters and allow them to disrupt thread after thread.
That Andrew Hickey came up with a solution off his own back should be commended.

[ontor pertawst]

So what's the problem, then? Use it, problem solved.

I have a lot of respect for anyone who would want to take on the job of moderating a board.  As I've said before, it's not a job I would want. 

Exactly. For free? All manner of endless hell from rules lawyers and backseat drivers, blegh. For no money. Yeah, what a great deal.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Beach Boys Britain, Adam, I posted the direct link to the conversation so you can click on it and read it.

Some of the loudest posters calling for respectful behavior and more respectful personal interaction on this forum all this week were at the same time ripping people apart on another Beach Boys forum, and how is that acceptable?

So the rules of Smiley Smile now extend to all other forums ? There's this thing called "freedom of speech".

[guitarfool2002]

Right. If anyone needs the help of a program or a device to ignore something they don't like, there it is. Solved.

[ontor pertawst]

Andrew, nobody is trying to take away your freedom of speech. But it's a bit rich to bitch, is all. C'mon, just flip it around and imagine if these guys were talking about you that way. Nobody comes out of this looking very good, and if Andrew #2 figured out a way to blot out those blemishes that torment you, use it in good health!

I get it that you don't like SB and OSD, but targeting Billy and GF over it seems a bit much.

[Mike's Beard]

So what's the problem, then? Use it, problem solved.

I am using it. No more   , #notthebeachboys, myKe luHv sucks and daft accusations of AGD being Mike's online PR manager for this guy.

[The Shift]

Well spoken Adam. While some of the things said in that thread might sting some here, mods especially, there also seems to be a lot in it that might be learned from, and used to help fix some of the ongoing problems that many have identified.

And surely the best place to respond to things isn't here, on Smiley, but on that board on which they appeared. Reposting them is actually repeating the slander and any court would see it as such.

Whenever this board is down, there's usually a thread on BBB notifying and commenting on the fact. I, for one, regard it as the place BBs fans go when this place isn't available (no disrespect at all Val!). The fact that it grew into what it did indicates that perhaps the problems here have grown and people don't feel comfortable discussing them here any more. Which needs some reflection.

Surely this thread now belongs in the Sandbox?

[ontor pertawst]

So what's the problem, then? Use it, problem solved.

I am using it. No more   , #notthebeachboys, myKe luVe sucks and daft accusations of AGD being Mike's online PR manager for this guy.

Does it work if they are quoted by other people? That might be a good incentive not to quote those guys, then.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew, nobody is trying to take away your freedom of speech. But it's a bit rich to bitch, is all. C'mon, just flip it around and imagine if these guys were talking about you that way. Nobody comes out of this looking very good, and if Andrew #2 figured out a way to blot out those blemishes that torment you, use it in good health!

I get it that you don't like SB and OSD, but targeting Billy and GF over it seems a bit much.

Firstly, opening a locked thread expressly to do this is... a very odd thing to do. It's also very poor nettiquette. Secondly, I've had much worse said about me, on assorted forums over the years (a certain bass player spring to mind), and can't recall it scarring me permanently (other here may disagree   ): if anyone is really that thinned skinned, should they be a part of a forum such as this ? Thirdly, and in my eyes most importantly, I have not targeted Billy anywhere in those posts, unless you count mentioning he had RL problems that understandably distracted him from SS targeting. He's as good a friend as anyone I've never met in the flesh can be and my heart is breaking for him in his current tribulations. No-one should have to go through all he and his family has done these last few years.

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, it was somebody else in that thread doing so -- it was painful to decipher! That formatting is like some terrible 1997 Internet flashback. Still, both of them have been getting more than their share of "criticism" the past few weeks and surely that's enough for now, more than enough to learn an important lesson or something?

I don't know if linking all this shittalking from a public forum is a huge breach of anything, it would've come up on another thread I'm sure. All the talk of cliques seemed ridiculous when the cliques are all a-clashin'. Probably best to lock this sh*t and walk away whistling. Either that or do that knife fight thing.

"Viggie sucks and i'm willing to fight about it!"

"HANDLERS!"

(slash slash)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

[ontor pertawst]

So which banned poster with a considerable grudge is that, then? Enter and sign in, please!

[Andrew G. Doe]

So what's the problem, then? Use it, problem solved.

I am using it. No more   , #notthebeachboys, myKe luVe sucks and daft accusations of AGD being Mike's online PR manager for this guy.

Does it work if they are quoted by other people? That might be a good incentive not to quote those guys, then.

Nope, but the quoted  text is small enough not to be immediately legible, at least to my dimming eyes... and I was probably the first here to use it, as Mr. Hickey sent me the link in private before going public. It's an absolute Godsend.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

Thank you Billy.

[guitarfool2002]

Beach Boys Britain, Adam, I posted the direct link to the conversation so you can click on it and read it.

Some of the loudest posters calling for respectful behavior and more respectful personal interaction on this forum all this week were at the same time ripping people apart on another Beach Boys forum, and how is that acceptable?

So the rules of Smiley Smile now extend to all other forums ? There's this thing called "freedom of speech".

How about the rules of practicing what you - specifically - preach?

Have I gone around throwing dirt on your name and reputation to multiple boards and to who knows how many people read what you've been writing? What you've done for the past weeks here on Smiley and as I found out tonight elsewhere on BB's boards has been to throw sh*t on my name and reputation, and I won't stand for it any longer. I get a chance to defend myself.

Why is this being done? Because two posters you've been told to ignore by multiple mods on multiple occasions have not been banned despite your requests to have them banned which have been coming in since 2014. Then it was blame all the ills of this forum on two posters. Then it was blame the moderating, and in particular one moderator who you put the target on his back and assign the blame, and have others saying it too. Only it won't stick. Facts can be tricky that way, as you know.

Now it's taking your charges to other forums and spreading all that personal stuff against me to other places where I'm not even involved, but which other fans read.

Are you proud of that?

I'd feel less than proud if you post here about respecting other posters and posting respectfully, while at the same time you say that here, you're posting to a public forum the kind of bile and outright garbage that is seen in that thread from the Britain board.

It is a fine idea, and one I, and the vast majority of posters here, would gladly put into practise, but the problem is, it only works if people are not merely respectful of each other, but also of the board in general.

How in the hell can you write with any conscience when you were trying to discredit and basically slander me on another BB's forum, and at this point who knows where else and to who else you've been saying this stuff.

Freedom of speech, sure thing. Your behavior suggests that only applies when you approve of what's being said. Some way to run an open forum, isn't it?

And that's it. People don't know what exactly they want, and look for scapegoats to blame and try to take down when they don't get their way. In the process, personal attacks and lies are acceptable toward that goal of getting exactly what you want. That's what a board should be?

At least be honest, Andrew, if being respectful isn't going to happen.

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

Thank you Billy.

And where were you to defend a friend who was being attacked and lied about? Silent.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So which banned poster with a considerable grudge is that, then? Enter and sign in, please!

It seemed more like a potshot than anything. Just caught me by surprise, especially hinting at something almost 20 years ago while I was in college, some of which wasn't even by me in the first place (long story...needless to say, NEVER use 'keep me signed in' on a public computer)

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'll cherry pick part of Adam's measured, sensible post (emphasis mine):

 That said - compiling a whole bunch of posts on another internet site (Facebook?) of people blowing off steam and who obviously didn't feel comfortable doing it in this venue, and then reposting it here - it's really not cool to me. I think it reinforces some of these criticisms rather than clearing the air and rebutting them.  To me, it isn't constructive, nor positive, nor helpful.  I understand the justification for doing it.  But really, people should have the right to blow off steam on their own pages.  If the stuff was posted here, that would be different.  But it wasn't.  Taking the high road and just letting it go is certainly hard, but in my opinion it would have been the better way to go if the goal here is to help the board thrive.

Exactly: to concoct a dubious simile, imagine going to dinner with your new partner's parents for the first time and it's evident from the start that their father is simply a complete fool. Do you tell everyone at the table... or get back tot he pub and tell everyone there ?

Exactly.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yeah, Andrew wasn't targeting me. Only one who seemed to be was this beachball dude.

Thank you Billy.

And where were you to defend a friend who was being attacked and lied about? Silent.

 Respectfully, this isn't your conversation.

[guitarfool2002]

So Andrew Doe gets to treat people like sh*t, be disrespectful, try to evade the rules of the board, try to destroy people and intimidate other posters, lie openly about things he wasn't even involved in and knows nothing about regarding the board's operations, and at the same time go around lecturing everyone else here about being respectful, enforcing and following the rules, and getting mods in place to do the necessary work, which must mean what Andrew would like to see done...

That's what the consensus wants?

Consider if the rules were followed as everyone is calling for them to be, Andrew would have been banned for that third and final time back in the spring. But he got a free pass. There, I said it. Maybe he's forgotten...and maybe, there really are two sets of rules for this board. Andrew has been a beneficiary of that, and still insists on trying to destroy people he doesn't want around.

Or shouldn't we go there, Andrew?