What did Mike + the other Boys think of Jack Rieley's lyrics?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

[clack]

The thing about Mike is that he's always commercially minded. The counterculture was in full swing (and probably reaching its zenith) by 1971. It was, paradoxically, a rather "safe" route to go by this time, hence the acquiescence to Rieley's new direction and making Surf's Up the centerpiece of the new album, etc. This new image made business sense (for now).

1966 was very different, only two years post "I Get Around". Brian (or VDP to be more specific) was ahead of the curve and in Mike's mind, taking enormous risks with the "brand" (although that wasn't the terminology back then). A completely different situation.

The "counterculture" was the mainstream in music by 1971. Also, by then Mike wasn't as reliant on Brian -- he could now generate songs on his own, or write with Al. (I think that a large part of Mike's objection to VDP 's lyrics was the feeling that Mike should be co-writing these songs, and not some fancy-pants outsider).

And people should give a listen to MIU, the next major occasion when Mike is writing extensively with Brian. Regardless of their quality or lack thereof, Mike's lyrics for that lp are quite ambitious, and in fact not unlike Rieley's.

  I'm not getting how myKe's lyrics on MIU can possibly be akin to Jack's. Ambitious should be replaced by banal if anything. As far as calling VDP a "fancy pants outsider", I think we all know who wore them in the family. And honestly, luHv was paranoid of Asher, VDP, Rieley, and Thomas primarily because they all far exceeded his stuff.

Belles of Paris  and the extended metaphor of Match Point of Your Love were lyrically ambitious.

Overly ambitious as it turned out,  but in the same pretentious, overly explicit manner of such a Rieley lyric as A Day in the Life of a Tree.

[c-man]

I know that Mike absolutely LOVES "Feel Flows" and "The Trader" - it was at his insistence that the former made it onto MIC. And Bruce, despite his problems with Jack, told Brad Elliott in 1981 "...I always thought stuff he did was really great, I never took issue with that."

[Mike's Beard]

Belles of Paris  and the extended metaphor of Match Point of Your Love were lyrically ambitious.

Overly ambitious as it turned out,  but in the same pretentious, overly explicit manner of such a Rieley lyric as A Day in the Life of a Tree.

I like Mike's lyrics in both of your examples but in my mind they are about as far removed as Rieley's style as can be.

[Alan Smith]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Are any of the other Beach Boys on Feel Flows or is it just Carl?

[Moon Dawg]

Are any of the other Beach Boys on Feel Flows or is it just Carl?

  Carl: lead & backing vocals, piano, organ, moog, bass, bells, guitar
  Brian: backing vocals
  Charles Lloyd: flute, sax
  Woodrow Theus: percussion
 

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

Would be interesting to know just who "the group" represented at the time. I can only imagine. While the Holland project substantially drained the coffers, under his direction the boys had their best shot at regaining their relevancy. And they did, indeed recapture the magic. But with all the factions and infighting going on they let Jack slip through their fingers. They lost not only their manager, but one of their most creative, interesting and refreshing lyricists. My favorite period in the band's history-unfortunately, it somehow wasn't meant to survive or thrive for a more extended period of time.  

[Alan Smith]

Are any of the other Beach Boys on Feel Flows or is it just Carl?

  Carl: lead & backing vocals, piano, organ, moog, bass, bells, guitar
  Brian: backing vocals
  Charles Lloyd: flute, sax
  Woodrow Theus: percussion
 

Don't forget Marilyn on backing vox

[Ian]

I'm not sure exactly when Jack was fired but he was still managing them in the spring of 1973.  He accompanied them on their March-May 1973 tour in the States (he was interviewed at a few college shows and I have them).

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

I'm not sure exactly when Jack was fired but he was still managing them in the spring of 1973.  He accompanied them on their March-May 1973 tour in the States (he was interviewed at a few college shows and I have them).

That would be incredible to hear.

[CenturyDeprived]

Are any of the other Beach Boys on Feel Flows or is it just Carl?

  Carl: lead & backing vocals, piano, organ, moog, bass, bells, guitar
  Brian: backing vocals
  Charles Lloyd: flute, sax
  Woodrow Theus: percussion
 

Thanks for the info. Does anyone else sing backing vocals on Feel Flows?

[Moon Dawg]

Are any of the other Beach Boys on Feel Flows or is it just Carl?

  Carl: lead & backing vocals, piano, organ, moog, bass, bells, guitar
  Brian: backing vocals
  Charles Lloyd: flute, sax
  Woodrow Theus: percussion
 

Thanks for the info. Does anyone else sing backing vocals on Feel Flows?

 Not sure. Thanks to Alan Smith for noting Marilyn.

[Cam Mott]

I know that Mike absolutely LOVES "Feel Flows" and "The Trader" - it was at his insistence that the former made it onto MIC. And Bruce, despite his problems with Jack, told Brad Elliott in 1981 "...I always thought stuff he did was really great, I never took issue with that."

"For both Dennis and Carl having Brian as their elder brother was like being Ira Gershwin to George Gershwin. But Carl wrote some great things, like “Feel Flows” and “The Trader and “Long Promised Road”."  Mike Love 2008

[Andrew G. Doe]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

Would be interesting to know just who "the group" represented at the time. I can only imagine. While the Holland project substantially drained the coffers, under his direction the boys had their best shot at regaining their relevancy. And they did, indeed recapture the magic. But with all the factions and infighting going on they let Jack slip through their fingers. They lost not only their manager, but one of their most creative, interesting and refreshing lyricists. My favorite period in the band's history-unfortunately, it somehow wasn't meant to survive or thrive for a more extended period of time.  

Jack was also a manipulative liar (not merely my opinion but documented fact - ask Renee Pappas) who played off each faction/clique against the other. People conveniently forget he was also on watch when CATP was released, so not exactly batting 1.000.

[Alan Smith]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

Would be interesting to know just who "the group" represented at the time. I can only imagine. While the Holland project substantially drained the coffers, under his direction the boys had their best shot at regaining their relevancy. And they did, indeed recapture the magic. But with all the factions and infighting going on they let Jack slip through their fingers. They lost not only their manager, but one of their most creative, interesting and refreshing lyricists. My favorite period in the band's history-unfortunately, it somehow wasn't meant to survive or thrive for a more extended period of time.  

Jack was also a manipulative liar (not merely my opinion but documented fact - ask Renee Pappas) who played off each faction/clique against the other. People conveniently forget he was also on watch when CATP was released, so not exactly batting 1.000.

Great comment re the manipulation, AGD, and reminder about CATP - his role around that time seems noticeably absent in the stuff I have at hand (that's a lazy general comment on my behalf).

Just to milk-a-bit-more that Goldmine interview (thanks, DonnyL) I've been hang-ing off of late, Al is on record saying:

Jack Rieley: A real fraud from the Netherlands.

Eugene Landy: Same thing. Landy might have had an edge in the fraud department.

[Mike's Beard]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

Would be interesting to know just who "the group" represented at the time. I can only imagine. While the Holland project substantially drained the coffers, under his direction the boys had their best shot at regaining their relevancy. And they did, indeed recapture the magic. But with all the factions and infighting going on they let Jack slip through their fingers. They lost not only their manager, but one of their most creative, interesting and refreshing lyricists. My favorite period in the band's history-unfortunately, it somehow wasn't meant to survive or thrive for a more extended period of time.  

Jack was also a manipulative liar (not merely my opinion but documented fact - ask Renee Pappas) who played off each faction/clique against the other. People conveniently forget he was also on watch when CATP was released, so not exactly batting 1.000.

Great comment re the manipulation, AGD, and reminder about CATP - his role around that time seems noticeably absent in the stuff I have at hand (that's a lazy general comment on my behalf).

Just to milk-a-bit-more that Goldmine interview (thanks, DonnyL) I've been hang-ing off of late, Al is on record saying:

Jack Rieley: A real fraud from the Netherlands.

Eugene Landy: Same thing. Landy might have had an edge in the fraud department.

Do you have a link for the Goldmine interview Alan? Would very much like to read the entire thing.

[Bicyclerider]

It came out Jack had lied about his previous accomplishments in getting the job of manager.  And Brian didn't always get along with Jack - there's the incident in the Rolling Stone article where Jack is going on to Brian about writing a song about the Pentagon Papers scandal and Brian completely ignores him.

Also didn't Gaines or someone report Jack's sexuality became an issue for some of the Beach Boys?

[Alan Smith]

Could a Beach Boys' manager be fired - or a new one hired - without a vote by the Beach Boys themselves? Was it a majority or unanimous vote? Does anybody know how the vote went?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was indeed unanimous.

Several tomes say stuff like "the group" was dissatisfied or infuriated with Rieley's decision to run the shop from Amsterdam, but there's no indication of any support for Jack.

Carl got executioner duty, which he performed in Holland in the spring of '73.

Would be interesting to know just who "the group" represented at the time. I can only imagine. While the Holland project substantially drained the coffers, under his direction the boys had their best shot at regaining their relevancy. And they did, indeed recapture the magic. But with all the factions and infighting going on they let Jack slip through their fingers. They lost not only their manager, but one of their most creative, interesting and refreshing lyricists. My favorite period in the band's history-unfortunately, it somehow wasn't meant to survive or thrive for a more extended period of time.  

Jack was also a manipulative liar (not merely my opinion but documented fact - ask Renee Pappas) who played off each faction/clique against the other. People conveniently forget he was also on watch when CATP was released, so not exactly batting 1.000.

Great comment re the manipulation, AGD, and reminder about CATP - his role around that time seems noticeably absent in the stuff I have at hand (that's a lazy general comment on my behalf).

Just to milk-a-bit-more that Goldmine interview (thanks, DonnyL) I've been hang-ing off of late, Al is on record saying:

Jack Rieley: A real fraud from the Netherlands.

Eugene Landy: Same thing. Landy might have had an edge in the fraud department.

Do you have a link for the Goldmine interview Alan? Would very much like to read the entire thing.

Hey MB - here is "the" link - http://troun.tripod.com/articles.html - again, courtesy of DonnyL, I am just a humble reader.

On this link are many insightful articles with great comment from Mike, Al and some good but brief stuff from Durrie Parks, who Donny worked with at some stage - my pleasure - A

[Mike's Beard]

Thanks to both yourself and DonnyL.

[JK]

Woodrow Theus: percussion

I'd often wondered who Theus was and just this minute got round to looking him up. Seems he died in 2011:

http://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2011/08/woody-sonship-theus/#_

 

[Robbie Mac]

It came out Jack had lied about his previous accomplishments in getting the job of manager. 

And some of the Beach Boys lied about being surfers.  What's a few lies among friends?

[Gerry]

Have to agree with you there Andy. The Beach Boys have been fudging the facts from the very beginning. In further defense of Rieley, the BB's would be a very difficult group to manage,especially at this time. And the Boys have been known to toss people by the wayside once they got what they wanted from them. That's show biz.

[the captain]

I disagree here. Bad behavior isn't made better by being common.