Forthcoming-ish Archival Releases ?

[NateRuvin]

AND OH MY GOD. The Knebworth CD makes Mike sound like a robot! Listen to Little Deuce Coupe or Do It Again the autotune makes it sound atrocious compared to the original recording!

Pretty sure what you're hearing are studio overdubs (not an uncommon practice with live albums), not necessarily pitch correction.  At least for the Knebworth disc.

As a record producer myself, I am defiantly hearing pitch correction, or autotune, on Mike's vocals. On California Girls, you can hear the notes jump from one to the next, instead of gradually sliding like the human voice normally sounds. Listen to when he says "those styles they wear". I feel like slabbing on autotune to vocals is such a standard now, producers and engineers even slather it onto recordings that sound good just because "it's what your supposed to do".  I often use manual pitch correction to fix maybe one  or two bad notes. But this sounds like automatic pitch correction, where you enter the key of the song, perhaps the key of Am, for example, and it makes all of the notes fit into that scale. But the problem is the notes jump, instead of moving gradually, which gives it that robotic tone.

[HeyJude]

Thank Him
Glow Cresent Glow
I've Got a Friend (backing track)
10,000 Years Ago
Little Children
Out in the Country
River Song
Come To The Sunshine
Don't Let Me Go
Our Life, Our Love, Our Land

“Thank Him” was released on the copyright extension “Big Beat 1963” album.

True but the sound quality....... hopefully an offical BB sanctioned release would be cleaned up somewhat.

I got the impression that while they may have been pressed on time and were just "getting it out there" to save the copyright, that they used the best available source for "Thank Him." I'm not sure a pristine version of it is extant.

[bgas]

Thank Him
Glow Cresent Glow
I've Got a Friend (backing track)
10,000 Years Ago
Little Children
Out in the Country
River Song
Come To The Sunshine
Don't Let Me Go
Our Life, Our Love, Our Land

“Thank Him” was released on the copyright extension “Big Beat 1963” album.

True but the sound quality....... hopefully an offical BB sanctioned release would be cleaned up somewhat.

I got the impression that while they may have been pressed on time and were just "getting it out there" to save the copyright, that they used the best available source for "Thank Him." I'm not sure a pristine version of it is extant.

Yes, pretty certain it probably came from the acetate that was picked off ebay (by Linett? )  for the BBs. Don't think there are/were any other saved copies; unless someone has the old wollensak tapes

[KDS]

How about a nice video anthology from the early TV appearances to the promo stuff for TWGMTR? 

I'd love to see that.  There's a few clips as bonus features on Endless Harmony and a few throughout America's Band, but I'd love to see a full DVD set. 

[HeyJude]

Video stuff is expensive and/or a rights nightmare. Best case scenario is that BRI puts out a concert video where they at least own the rights to the actual video. But even then, they have to pay for sync rights to every song (probably one of the reasons the C50 live video only has 21 songs, and probably one of the reasons Eagle Vision only ordered a 70-minute long video presentation from BRI for the Knebworth DVD). Stuff where the BB’s own the publishing either through Brother or one of their own publishing entities, that stuff could theoretically be cheaper to clear, as they could essentially cut themselves a deal.

A DVD full of TV clips and promo films/videos would be very difficult, because there would be all of the same costs to clear the actual songs, and then on top of that they’d have to license the TV clips from whatever entity owns the TV footage in question. Way too expensive for something that wouldn’t sell super well. I’d love it, but it’s very unlikely.

On the other hand, audio releases of material owned by BRI (live or studio) are extensively easier to do. They own the rights to the recordings, and only have to pay the same flat rate for the actual compositions. If BRI ever does some serious archive releases, it’ll be audio. Our best chance for video material would be a release of concert footage BRI owns.

[bgas]

So, anyway,  bought this cassette on ebay and it arrived today. Hoping that track 2 on side 2 is mis-titled and is really " Go and Get That Girl".
My cassette player is old and I'm not certain it works anymore, so I'm thinking I'll have to find someone locally that can help me transfer this to CD.( not mailing the tape again, that's for sure)  
  I'm guessing that other than the three songs that start side 2, the others should be the same versions everyone has heard?
This is the insert:  
    

[HeyJude]

Curious if Capitol actually was considering releasing the ’77 X-Mas album. “Promotional use only” sounds more like a promo copy of a ready-to-be-released product as opposed to an in-house compilation made for simple consideration. Certainly looks legit I suppose.

I can’t imagine the BB’s particularly wanting this out in 1993; they were sticklers for even stuff like “Loop de Loop” and “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” and those didn’t get released on the ’93 GV set.

Interesting that when the 1998 “Ultimate Christmas” CD came out, they noted that the original “Bells of Christmas” master mix was missing, so they had to remix it. Unless one of the weird, lazy titles on the cassette compilation is “Bells of Christmas”, it looks like they may have left that one off because they did no actual new mixes for the cassette and just pulled existing mixes. If “Bells of Christmas” is missing, it actually ironically makes it more likely it’s a legit thing and not a faked item pulled from boots.

[bgas]

  here's the Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beach-Boys-93-UNISSUED-DJ-VERS-OF-BEACH-BOYS-1977-CHRISTMAS-ALBUM-cassette-/400964791600   

 Sold by Perry Cox, noted Beatles author/historian and presumably author of the soon to be released Beach Boys price Guide( still waiting for  this! )

I don't understand, still, why the BBs would include Michael Row The Boat and Seasons In the Sun on a Christmas Album, if they were trying to sell  Reprise  on the idea of it as an actual worthy of being released product. 

Me? I have no doubts as to the legitimacy of the tape I bought, else I wouldn't have bid/bought. 

Were it a sealed item, I wouldn't even think about opening it, but as it's not, I'll find a way to dub it off. 
 And I'll let ya know what I think. 

[HeyJude]

Definitely appears legit. What I’m unsure of is whether the idea was pitched to the BB’s (or any of the BB’s pitched it to Capitol), or if Capitol did this on the sly with hopes of presenting it to the group. I still find it highly questionable as to whether BRI would have signed off on such a project (even in 1998 for “Ultimate Christmas”, members vetoed at least a few tracks).

What kind of access did Capitol have to these tapes in 1993? As I mentioned before, the fact that “Bells of Christmas” may be missing suggests Capitol didn’t have access to multi-tracks, and/or didn’t have time or money to bother doing new mixes until they had a go-ahead on the project. But at the same time, a full promo copy suggests the project was finished and mastered (or I’m just placing too much weight on “Promo” versus some sort of in-house working draft).

The obviously incorrect song title makes me also wonder about who made this and under what circumstances. It’s almost like some Capitol staffer was handed some tapes and told to slap something together. The only other possibility is that they wanted to retitle “Go and Get that Girl” as “Her Love Can Make You Feel Like Christmas Day” to make the holiday connection more obvious, but that’s an awfully loooong song title.

Does anyone recall mention of an attempt to release the ’77 X-Mas album in 1993. I’m curious if Mark Linett worked on this.

If the tracklisting for the album on AGD’s Bellagio website is in the actual order that the finished, submitted album was, then that might explain this 1993 tape, as it matches that tracklisting (other than the title variations). This then of course raises a very tiny tidbit I either never knew or had forgotten: “Bells of Christmas” was dropped from contention before they even submitted the ’77 X-Mas album? I guess *that* would explain why there was no vintage finished mix to source for the 1998 CD.

[KDS]

Video stuff is expensive and/or a rights nightmare. Best case scenario is that BRI puts out a concert video where they at least own the rights to the actual video. But even then, they have to pay for sync rights to every song (probably one of the reasons the C50 live video only has 21 songs, and probably one of the reasons Eagle Vision only ordered a 70-minute long video presentation from BRI for the Knebworth DVD). Stuff where the BB’s own the publishing either through Brother or one of their own publishing entities, that stuff could theoretically be cheaper to clear, as they could essentially cut themselves a deal.

A DVD full of TV clips and promo films/videos would be very difficult, because there would be all of the same costs to clear the actual songs, and then on top of that they’d have to license the TV clips from whatever entity owns the TV footage in question. Way too expensive for something that wouldn’t sell super well. I’d love it, but it’s very unlikely.

On the other hand, audio releases of material owned by BRI (live or studio) are extensively easier to do. They own the rights to the recordings, and only have to pay the same flat rate for the actual compositions. If BRI ever does some serious archive releases, it’ll be audio. Our best chance for video material would be a release of concert footage BRI owns.

While I know everything you say is true, other bands have released video anthologies, and other bands have released full concerts on DVD over the years (some release a full concert DVD after every tour as well as releasing vintage concerts). 

Granted the TV footage thing could be an issue, but The Doors have released good compilations of promo films and TV appearances. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

The track ordering is legit (from a source other than Elliott) and it was submitted in 1978, not 1977.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Something like the Frank Sinatra Concert Collection would be amazing, but like HeyJude said, it would probably be very difficult to put together.

[HeyJude]

I think a lot of his has to do with the publishing and who owns it and what they charge for sync rights. Ironically, an indie band who owns their own publishing can do a live DVD much cheaper than the BB’s can, in terms of those sorts of overhead costs. The publishers charge a TON for the “classic” songs; doesn’t matter whether the BB’s or an unknown band are paying for it (though for all I know the publishers do cut a bulk deal for a high-profile BB video release, knowing it will sell well). They obviously are willing and able to cut deals that are affordable enough to do the releases they’ve done (keep in mind they’re often also negotiating for at least one or two Chuck Berry songs as well, and sometimes some other covers).

I’m guessing “California Girls” costs more to clear than “All This Is That”, especially since the producers of a DVD are negotiating with the BB’s themselves on the latter. That might be why we got a few surprising picks on the C50 Blu-ray/DVD considering it was only 21 songs, stuff like “Marcella” and “All This Is That” (and the new album songs are probably cheaper too).

As far as licensing TV show clips, that also ends up all over the map. I’ve heard licensing stuff from Dick Clark Productions for instance (American Bandstand, I think they also own the “One Man’s Challenge” footage) is super expensive. I’m guessing that may have cost more than the “Cool Cool Water” TV show clip (which brings up the issue of whether footage in releasable quality is even available; it was apparently a fluke that particular show survived).

[HeyJude]

The track ordering is legit (from a source other than Elliott) and it was submitted in 1978, not 1977.

True; I just refer to it that way based on recording dates.

I’m still curious if anyone can remember any mention back in 1993 of Capitol trying to simply dust off that 1978 album master and issue it, seemingly as-is. Considering the paucity of outtakes from that era on the 1993 GV boxed set, who thought BRI would want a full CD of what, without too much exaggeration, amounts to an album of outtakes from one of their lowest critical and commercial periods? I’m sure an X-Mas themed package will always snag some extra business during the holiday shopping season, but the album either in 1978 or 1993 is rather hodge-podge in nature.

[bryand]

  here's the Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beach-Boys-93-UNISSUED-DJ-VERS-OF-BEACH-BOYS-1977-CHRISTMAS-ALBUM-cassette-/400964791600   

 Sold by Perry Cox, noted Beatles author/historian and presumably author of the soon to be released Beach Boys price Guide( still waiting for  this! )

I don't understand, still, why the BBs would include Michael Row The Boat and Seasons In the Sun on a Christmas Album, if they were trying to sell  Reprise  on the idea of it as an actual worthy of being released product. 

Me? I have no doubts as to the legitimacy of the tape I bought, else I wouldn't have bid/bought. 

Were it a sealed item, I wouldn't even think about opening it, but as it's not, I'll find a way to dub it off. 
 And I'll let ya know what I think. 

So you outbid me on this! Luckily he had 4 so I got it on a 2nd chance offer. I'm scared to play it as I know how cassette players can mangle tapes. I'm curious to know if these are better quality mixes than boots. Maybe I'll get up the courage to rip to MP3

[bgas]

ahh, play it!!  odds are with you, not any old cassette player. then YOU can tell the world about OUR tape

[Custom Machine]

So, anyway,  bought this cassette on ebay and it arrived today. Hoping that track 2 on side 2 is mis-titled and is really " Go and Get That Girl".
My cassette player is old and I'm not certain it works anymore, so I'm thinking I'll have to find someone locally that can help me transfer this to CD.( not mailing the tape again, that's for sure) 
  I'm guessing that other than the three songs that start side 2, the others should be the same versions everyone has heard?
This is the insert: 
   

If this is a legitimate Capitol issued cassette it would have been for internal use and not to sent out to DJ's as Perry Cox states.

And if this were intended for release circa 1993 it is extremely doubtful Capitol would have titled it "1977 Christmas Album" when released to the public.  Why are the artists listed as "THE BEACHBOYS" with BEACHBOYS being one word?

Perry Cox statement that the 1977 Warner/Reprise/Brother issuance was shelved "LIKELY DUE TO SOME CONFLICT WITH CAPITOL RECORDS WHO RETAINED THE RIGHTS FOR THEIR ORIGINAL 1964 VERSION CHRISTMAS ALBUM AND HAS ALWAYS REMAINED IN PRINT" is absolute nonsense. A collector like Mr. Cox should know that it has been common practice for years for artists who have issued a Christmas album on their former label to issue a newer one on their current label.

Just curious, since Perry Cox apparently has/had a number of these cassettes, if he has stated where and when he obtained them, and how many he obtained?

bgas and bryand, when you do get around to playing these cassettes, please report back on the sound quality.  For example, does Seasons in the Sun sound like a pristine copy from the master tapes, as one would expect if this is a legitimate release, or does it suffer from the multi-generational hiss and over modulation distortion found in varying degrees on most circulating copies?

And finally, does anyone have any info on when Perry Cox intends to finally release his long awaited Beach Boys Price Guide?

[HeyJude]

All interesting questions. If this was an internal/in-house item, then the weird spellings and notations and titles are at least plausible. That's why the "promotional use only" wording still puzzles me. Are there other examples of internal-use only items that are labeled as "promotional?" That wording makes me think it's something on the verge of potential commercial release, which clearly was not the case as far as I know with this in 1993.

It's very true; a simple listen to the contents would likely quickly reveal whether it's sourced from master tapes as opposed to boots. That material circulates in pretty decent quality, but definitely several generations down.

And again, this wasn't even originally Capitol-era material, so I'm trying to figure out how Capitol would have had access to 1977/78 tapes that are owned wholly by BRI.

[bgas]

If this is a legitimate Capitol issued cassette it would have been for internal use and not to sent out to DJ's as Perry Cox states.

And if this were intended for release circa 1993 it is extremely doubtful Capitol would have titled it "1977 Christmas Album" when released to the public.  Why are the artists listed as "THE BEACHBOYS" with BEACHBOYS being one word?

Perry Cox statement that the 1977 Warner/Reprise/Brother issuance was shelved "LIKELY DUE TO SOME CONFLICT WITH CAPITOL RECORDS WHO RETAINED THE RIGHTS FOR THEIR ORIGINAL 1964 VERSION CHRISTMAS ALBUM AND HAS ALWAYS REMAINED IN PRINT" is absolute nonsense. A collector like Mr. Cox should know that it has been common practice for years for artists who have issued a Christmas album on their former label to issue a newer one on their current label.

Just curious, since Perry Cox apparently has/had a number of these cassettes, if he has stated where and when he obtained them, and how many he obtained?

bgas and bryand, when you do get around to playing these cassettes, please report back on the sound quality.  For example, does Seasons in the Sun sound like a pristine copy from the master tapes, as one would expect if this is a legitimate release, or does it suffer from the multi-generational hiss and over modulation distortion found in varying degrees on most circulating copies?

And finally, does anyone have any info on when Perry Cox intends to finally release his long awaited Beach Boys Price Guide?

All interesting questions. If this was an internal/in-house item, then the weird spellings and notations and titles are at least plausible. That's why the "promotional use only" wording still puzzles me. Are there other examples of internal-use only items that are labeled as "promotional?" That wording makes me think it's something on the verge of potential commercial release, which clearly was not the case as far as I know with this in 1993.

It's very true; a simple listen to the contents would likely quickly reveal whether it's sourced from master tapes as opposed to boots. That material circulates in pretty decent quality, but definitely several generations down.

And again, this wasn't even originally Capitol-era material, so I'm trying to figure out how Capitol would have had access to 1977/78 tapes that are owned wholly by BRI.

  NOT necessarily to defend Mr. Cox, but are we looking at the same insert? ( Oh, never mind,I see you're referring only to the tape itself)  Possibly just a misprint( tho I'll admit that none of the other promos have such a glaring one)
As to that, who Knows? I suppose these COULD have been made by someone that wanted to make a little $$ and had some extra tapes around; (someone that worked at Capitol)
But that seems a lot of trouble to me.  
  as for other examples, here's another Promo I have had for a bunch of years that is similar. Perhaps it also was counterfeited by someone with access to Capitol's tape files/logos/manufacturing facilities, that wouldn't be worried about listing them on EBay and being found to be selling fake capitol products ?


Of course, it's only one sided, and made as a promo/sampler tool for the GV 30 years set. I believe Perry is auctioning some of these now/soon that he also bought/consigned from the same person that supplied the Xmas tape.  
 Now these two above are on a heavy paper insert, with perforated edges all around.  The Pet Sounds below, one of set of 4, is on really light paper/ no perforated edges, while the Still Cruisin is, again, heavier and it also has some texture, but no perforated edges.  

    

Other than the Xmas tape which I just received, all of these tapes sound pristine.  
Taking them all in, I guess it's possible the Xmas and the 30 years tapes are fakes; but I think it's just as likely they're genuine.
If anyone anywhere has some first hand insider's knowledge, I hope they'll step forward now.  

Oh, hey, forgot your most important question!  
I suggest if you want to know about the price guide, you ask Perry D Cox. (I'm tired of asking)
Use Ebay messages or email him on AOL. same as his name

[bryand]

So, anyway,  bought this cassette on ebay and it arrived today. Hoping that track 2 on side 2 is mis-titled and is really " Go and Get That Girl".
My cassette player is old and I'm not certain it works anymore, so I'm thinking I'll have to find someone locally that can help me transfer this to CD.( not mailing the tape again, that's for sure) 
  I'm guessing that other than the three songs that start side 2, the others should be the same versions everyone has heard?
This is the insert: 
   

If this is a legitimate Capitol issued cassette it would have been for internal use and not to sent out to DJ's as Perry Cox states.

And if this were intended for release circa 1993 it is extremely doubtful Capitol would have titled it "1977 Christmas Album" when released to the public.  Why are the artists listed as "THE BEACHBOYS" with BEACHBOYS being one word?

Perry Cox statement that the 1977 Warner/Reprise/Brother issuance was shelved "LIKELY DUE TO SOME CONFLICT WITH CAPITOL RECORDS WHO RETAINED THE RIGHTS FOR THEIR ORIGINAL 1964 VERSION CHRISTMAS ALBUM AND HAS ALWAYS REMAINED IN PRINT" is absolute nonsense. A collector like Mr. Cox should know that it has been common practice for years for artists who have issued a Christmas album on their former label to issue a newer one on their current label.

Just curious, since Perry Cox apparently has/had a number of these cassettes, if he has stated where and when he obtained them, and how many he obtained?

bgas and bryand, when you do get around to playing these cassettes, please report back on the sound quality.  For example, does Seasons in the Sun sound like a pristine copy from the master tapes, as one would expect if this is a legitimate release, or does it suffer from the multi-generational hiss and over modulation distortion found in varying degrees on most circulating copies?

And finally, does anyone have any info on when Perry Cox intends to finally release his long awaited Beach Boys Price Guide?

Yes I will report back. I'm ordering a cassette to MP3 player so once I get that, I'll give it a listen. I'm hoping that the quality is improved from all those boots that have this release on it (that really won't take much).

[HeyJude]

I guess the main difference would be that the "promos" for the GV set and "Still Cruisin'" were just that, promotional copies of albums that were soon to be released and were already planned/approved.

But it's certainly possible that someone did an in-house thing for the X-Mas album and just used stock "promo" cards/labels.

This thing certainly seems rather obscure for someone to "fake"; and as we've been saying, the aural evidence will (probably) quickly reveal whether it's master-quality or taken from boots.

Most of the 77/78 X-Mas album is around in good quality. Obviously, the majority of tracks are on the "Ultimate Christmas" CD. "Go and Get that Girl" and "Alone on Christmas Day" float around out there in good quality, probably a good 7 to 8/10 score on sound quality. Same with "Seasons in the Sun." The stuff has a few dropouts/anomalies here and there certainly. "I Saw Mommy..." was included on the Carnie/Wendy "Hey Santa" album (not sure if it was remixed for that). I think the other stuff circulates in relatively good quality.

Outside of collectability, the main deal with this would be the sonic upgrade of 5 or so songs.

I'm *still* curious to hear if anyone even recalls one utterance of a plan back in 1993 to put this out. I ask this more because, if someone was wandering around Capitol in the 90's just slapping together BB archival releases without any prompting, going so far as to master a reference/in-house copy of the stuff, I'm curious what *else* might surface from that era.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Being a fan of Christmas music, and the years 1976-77 being a favorite Beach Boys' period, I would like to see an official release of the attempted 1977 Christmas album. The material isn't the strongest and some of the vocals are ragged - actually some of them are embarrassing. Still, there are a few gems on there, some of the moments are touching, and if nothing else, it is a fascinating picture of the group at that time in their career. I assumed that some of those songs didn't make the cut on Ultimate Christmas because they were weak; obviously they didn't get any stronger over the years. There probably isn't a snowball's chance in hell (pun intended) of any such official release. But, each winter I hope that somebody will assemble those songs, remix them, remaster them, write some informative liner notes, include some cool photos and album cover, and release it with a budget price.

The Beach Boys - Christmas Time Is Here Again (1977)

01  Christmas Time Is Here Again
02  Winter Symphony
03  Melekalikimaka
04  Go And Get That Girl
05  Santa's On His Way
06  Santa's Got An Airplane
07  Child Of Winter

08  (I Saw Santa) Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree
09  I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus
10  Michael Row The Boat Ashore
11  Morning Christmas
12  Alone On Christmas Day
13  Bells Of Christmas
14  Christmas Carol Medley 

- "Go And Get That Girl" isn't very Christmasey (another pun intended), I think only one line even refers to Christmas, but we need Carl Wilson on the album.

- "Michael Row The Boat Ashore" isn't a Christmas song either, but I love it and I want it released! It does, however, have words like "Hallelujah" in it, and the line "the river Jordan is CHILLY and COLD" (did Mike re-phrase that?). It also references children ("sister help to trim the sail") which leads into the next couple of children-related  songs.

- "Seasons In The Sun" just never seemed to fit as a Christmas song, so I didn't include it. I hate to sacrifice the Carl lead vocal, but the lyrics aren't holiday-themed in any way other than the word "seasons", and the song sounds a little dated, much like "Good Time" on Love You and almost "Games Two Can Play" on Adult Child.

- "Child Of Winter" IS a couple of years older than the other songs, but it doesn't sound like it. It is essential.

[metal flake paint]

I’m guessing that may have cost more than the “Cool Cool Water” TV show clip (which brings up the issue of whether footage in releasable quality is even available; it was apparently a fluke that particular show survived).

Interesting that you should mention this as the reason why it survives is because a tape operator friend of Alan Boyd's made himself a copy of the performance while working at the company that syndicated the David Frost show. Sadly, the master tape was subsequently destroyed.

[Andrew G. Doe]

1 - I don't recall word one about any such release in 1993.

2 - the band leased all the post-Capitol material to, uh, Capitol in, I think, 1992... hence the 2000 Brother-Reprise 2fers.

[HeyJude]

I know BRI obviously licensed out specific Brother-era stuff for the GV boxed set, but did they have a specific contract with Capitol all the way back in 1992 for all of the Brother-era albums and first rights of refusal on released and unreleased material?

I know they licensed the material out to them for the 2000 two-fers, but I’m not sure that was based on a contract dating all the way back to 1992. And even if that was the case, how would Capitol have been accessing unreleased material like the ’77 recordings?

I guess the idea I’m getting around to is, I’m not sure this tape would exist unless BRI allowed Capitol access to the tapes (either based on BRI instigating work on it, or Capitol having the idea), and this doesn’t strike me as something that BRI would have signed off on, let alone something they would have instigated work on. Clearly, if the project was planned, it was obviously shelved for some reason subsequently. I’m just thinking, unlike the “Rarities” album in 1983 where Capitol essentially just pulled whatever tapes they already had on-site in their possession, it seems unlikely they would have had Brother-era outtakes at their fingertips in 1993, unless BRI recalled any tapes held by CBS/Epic/Sony and had them all sent to Capitol instead of back to BRI.

I’m probably examining this way too closely!