The Smiley Smile Message Board

While Beatle fans hotly anticipate a 50th anniversary Rubber Soul ball point pen and tea-cup, are we all looking forward to the end of year archival release from the team ? They'd be working on this kind of thing as I speak wouldn't they ?
Dylan fans are already being teased with a possible 18/19 cd set (not enough in my opinion). Will team Beach Boy (Mark and Alan) deliver the goods this year and next ? Will we hear that Great Shape acetate and other Durry Parks goodies ? Brian's Child edit ? More from Jasper Dailley (my kids say YES they love Teeter Totter Love nearly as much as Vega-Tables though i've told them to wait till 2017). Anyone wanna indulge in rampant speculation - AGD ?
I do hope the guys continue with some (FLAC/Lossless) goodies at the end of the year. While it's never enough, i feel that Dylan's team and The Beach Boys crew are leading the way for hard-core fans. Both "teams" have delivered some outstanding stuff the last 2 years unlike Moptop Corp. 1966 produced arguably the finest music of any year pop wise. Are we in for a treat with our "prelude to 1966" sets ? There's still plenty of fabulous unreleased 65 Beach Boys stuff is there not ?

I'm not expecting anything but I've always wondered what happened with the Carnegie Hall shows. Here's a small bit posted by Howie Edelson back in 2009:

"The Beatles aren't the only '60s icons preserving their legendary catalogue and vault; the Beach Boys' team is hard at work cataloging the thousands of tapes which make up their archive. The team -- chief archivist Alan Boyd and producer/engineer Mark Linett -- has recently collected all of the known elements of the band's unfinished 1967 album Smile, and have now uncovered the multi-tracks for the Beach Boys' two historic concerts at New York's Carnegie Hall on November 23rd, 1972.

For years, only half of one of the shows has been available in pristine stereo on the underground market. Boyd says that the band's company Brother Records is in possession of all of the multi-track masters of the shows, and is now collecting appropriate film and video footage which could be included on a potential project."

I'm kind of hoping (counting) on an archival release similar to "Keep An Eye On Summer" in December maybe that covers 1965.  Where that release covered 1964 nicely with sessions, background and isolated vocals and odds & ends of "Shut Down Vol 2" & "All Summer Long" I'm hoping this one would cover "Today" and "Summer Days".  Would love to hear some more lengthy sessions for "California Girls", "Kiss Me Baby" and "Sloop John B", particularly.

Also, I was happy that KAEOS was released as a Hi-Res offering early this year, after the initial iTunes release.  I wish they had done it at the same time so I didn't end up buying it twice (holding head in shame).  Having the lossless tracks is great, though.  For these kinds of archival releases I'm fine with no physical release, personally.

Off the top of my head there are about eight archival releases that with minimal tweaking (and a human wage paid to those doing the heavy lifting/thinking) could be on the market in a matter of months.
And apart from all of us here, there is an amazing demand for product EXACTLY like what The Stones are now doing with Eagle Rock.

I had a chat the other day with someone from a rival label and they were not only astounded that there isn't already tons of highly publicized archival product out there but spouted out some impressive numbers as to what the band could expect with every edition of -- for want of a better term -- "BOYD's PICKS."

Things are changing.
The liberation of the archive is in our sights.

I'd like to throw down a request: Release any live archival material from 40+ years ago warts-and-all, in other words no editing and fixing and tinkering. Anything that got played on stage gets put on the release, audio verite style. That to me is the only way to handle such material. The post-production fixes on too many live releases tend to destroy the appeal of certain products in the name of polishing up things for the wrong reasons or the wrong people. The people buying the greatest hits CD's and downloads are not the target demographic for this kind of material. Off soapbox.

Yes, complete agree.

I agree as well. The "buried in the mix" theremin in Wild Honey (from Made In California) was rather lame.

I understand what you guys are saying, but I think it's safe to say that a full-on "faders up" of the multi's from a mid-'70s concert would be a mess.
I thought the MIC "I Can Hear Music" was beautiful.

I'm speaking more of edits, fades, comping different parts together from different shows to create the best presentation, adding or "fixing" any bum notes after the fact, all that jazz. Faders up I agree would be too much audio verite, but I'm thinking of how sometimes too much is done with comping and fixing that it sterilizes out all of the raw energy and feels too fake. If the second set of a show ran for 83 minutes, then the 2nd set disc should be 83 continuous minutes just as the audience heard and the band played. No fades, no editing out stage noise or chatter between songs either, that's part of the fun and the realism that sets the bar very high on the better archive show releases from any artist. Official and unofficial. Steely Dan '74 comes to mind unofficially...a few of those shows are jaw-dropping amazing.

I hope they finally release what must be hours and hours and hours of candid recordings of the Boys resisting and complaining and defying and bullying Brian during the Pet Sounds and SMiLE sessions.  ::)

(https://fonolo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Take-a-Number.jpg)

Its the B-side to the hours and hours and hours of candid recordings of the Boys embracing and praising and loving and encouraging Brian during the Pet Sounds and SMiLE sessions.

Kind of along the lines of what you're saying, what I would love to hear more than any other unreleased stuff is more alternate mixes/roughs/early versions ... i.e., actual vintage mixes.

That would be cool, reminds me of something like The Beatles' "Acetates" boot from the early 90's, which I thought was one of the better boots out there even with the bad quality of the sourced acetates. But my interest in such a collection from the Beach Boys would stop dead in its tracks after a certain point in the 70's.  :)

Fingers are crossed for this one too:   :lol

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/sipnakedfull_zps48813d8d.jpg)

 :lol

I want to see the first Flame album remastered and reissued and the second one finally see the light of day. Didn't Stephen Desper try in vain to get them out a few years back?

That B Side is already out.

Having heard absolutely everything SMiLE-related that still exists in the vaults of both BRI and Capitol, I can safely tell you that the latter does not exist. And I seriously doubt the former does, either.

Exactly. Thanks Craig.

I'd love to see this.  A full live anthology from the early 60s up til the C50 Tour (a good recording from C50 this time please).  A huge live box set with some complete concerts and some odds and ends (ie. rare covers done live). 

I would love this also.

All of the live releases feel like they fall short of a complete historic document because of what guitarfool2002 lays out above. I love Live at Knebworth, but why not put out the full show, warts and all?

They still do this even in 2015.  Brian's Soundstage DVD isn't even the complete show.   

This made my day.  :lol

Howie’s right; there’s so much stuff available that could be put together in no time. Maybe there are even more gems they haven’t uncovered yet, but they have already uncovered a ton of stuff that they could pull together and have ready for release at any time. Studio or live stuff. I could think of a dozen different themes/packages/variations for them to do, studio and live, individual discs and multi-disc sets, the list goes on. And that’s just going off of the stuff we *know* about; they no doubt have other material few if any of us know about.

As far as the “futzing” thing, I think some of the work on the studio stuff can get a bit excessive (the take of “California Feeling” on MIC is probably more listenable, but *a lot* of futzing going on with that one, flown-in Brian vocal, re-arranged order of segments, drums dropped out intermittently, etc.)

I don’t think they’ve done anything too heinous with the limited live material they’ve released on archival releases so far, other than obviously only giving us scattered tracks. I think the only thing they should do with that stuff is simply mix down or mix out any little bits that sound off. Not like single bass guitar notes that are off, but if there’s a song where Brian was noodling on the piano in another world, or if a harmony part is flat for a whole song, I don’t mind mixing that out if the performance otherwise still warrants release.

I’d love full, uncut live recordings. But unless they do some sort of online club/membership format, we’ll never get something like that. If they do some sort of fancy boxed set of live recordings, it would have to be highlights and stuff pulled from a ton of different shows. I’d of course snap up dozens and dozens of full, uncut live shows. But in a boxed set format, I don’t need eight versions of “California Girls.”

In a boxset, I'd like to see a couple of full shows, preferably from eras that haven't seen official live recordings (ie.  The GV boxset tour in 1993 and a good unaltered full concert from 2012).  Other than that, a nice collection of different tracks that have been done over the years. 

But there is precedent going back years for making full, uncut soundboard concerts available to an artist's fan base that were essentially "official" bootlegs but not full-on, major-label releases. I remember back in 2002 or so, a friend and former co-worker contacted me wanting to take some guitar lessons, and he was a major Pearl Jam fan. At his place, he shows me this collection of Pearl Jam concerts, full uncut shows that if I remember had been made available for sale or download to their fans by the band. Of course others have done and are still doing this, naturally The Dead and Phish and related bands come to mind, but when I saw the way Pearl Jam had organized this distribution setup, I was really impressed and thought I wish more bands would do this for their fans, it's a really cool idea and it also gives the fans basically a guarantee of good sound and a quality product without having to deal with bootleggers and half-assed dealers selling bad dubs and low-generation copies. These shows were coming direct from the band, so there is a level of quality for your money that the boots couldn't guarantee.

And then there was Rhino Handmade and The Monkees catalog. I bought a single disc called "Live 1967" when it came out on Rhino, it was a compilation of several shows that had been recorded on a '67 tour that they edited into one imaginary setlist pulling out the best of the live tapes they had in the vaults. So you got an "official" release that was giving casual fans what amounted to a greatest live hits compilation, a fantasy setlist based on the real thing, but it was a mix of different shows.

Then Handmade did a neat thing. They took the full live tapes from several venues and boxed them up in a multi-disc set, limited run and kind of pricey, but here for the hardcore fans was a set of full shows from the '67 tour, no comping or anything else, apart from the usual mixing and sound balancing to present a good product.

That was the difference between knowing your demographic and fan base and offering different products for those only willing to get their feet wet versus those who want to jump off the high dive board and get the collector-type material. I don't think there were many complaints.

And those examples from over a decade ago are what I think I have in mind whenever live archival material is discussed. There are templates that have been in place a long time that have worked. Sure, there are the various legalities like fees and licenses and permissions and all of that stuff to work out that may be different from artist to artist, but there can be releases of full live shows getting to the fan base who wants to buy them without having to go the "Knebworth" route via labels and all of that. Or so it would seem.

I was hoping Brian would do this for his 2015 Tour. 

I remember The Who did it in 2002 because I was able to purchase a CD of the show I attended in Hershey. 

Ugggh. If the BB's had put together even 10% of the sort of thing like that Elvis program, it would be amazing.

Seriously, it's free money for them! Nobody has to go back into the studio and overdub anything. It apparently has even mostly been cataloged now. Now they just have to let Alan Boyd loose. If they went with a digital-only release (again, I'd prefer physical CDs, but if the "copyright extension" stuff has been digital-only, that's the most likely scenario for future releases), they wouldn't even have to pay for the relatively small overheard manufacturing costs.

They all have active Facebook pages and whatnot too, easy cross promotion would be easy. All of those fans who thank Mike on Facebook for performing "Barbara Ann" and "All I Wanna Do" and all the fans who "Like" a random photo of Brian from 1967 could instead be given links to where they will GLADLY fork over serious coin to buy the full Carnegie Hall show, or "Sunflower" sessions, or the full 1993 Paramount Theater show, or an uncut 2012 show, or vocals-only mixes, and so on.

They could then even cross promote all of their solo stuff too. Maybe somebody needs to pitch Mike on piggybacking a new solo album on top of a world-class Beach Boys archival release program.

Why on earth would anything from the archives like we're talking about need to be piggybacked on a Mike Love solo album or anything of the sort, I mean...

speechless...

I think you have it backwards.

Nope, I meant exactly what I wrote replying to this:


So would this be like piggybacking Mike's NASCAR album to getting a fill-up at the local 76 gas station like they did in 1998? Buy Carnegie Hall, get a free solo album? That's just cheap gimmickery.

Ok, then you wrote your response backwards.  :lol

At this point we don't even know what exactly would be on his album (or if it will really happen, for that matter).  I don't really see what the big deal is.  Right now we're talking about a theoretical scenario of a theoretical release...

I do things backwards sometimes, I'll admit to that.  :)

It's not about whatever is or isn't on the hypothetical album(s), but more about assuming the release of some stellar vintage live material would be tied to anything else at all, even as a theoretical or hypothetical it sounds like an absurd notion. A concert like Carnegie or any other notable show from the past stands on its own, if you attach something to it or vice versa or whatever the case, it becomes a marketing gimmick that cheapens the whole thing. Just my opinion. Although a free NASCAR album with a tank of gas seemed appropriate.  :lol

That Beach Boys/Grateful Dead live set would've been something relevant to piggyback on a month or so ago.   :hat

Why do I feel like we're just going to get something Pet Sounds-related next year? Another repackage of the box set, etc. .....or the group reunites, performs the album in full in 10 cities, there's a TV special, a live album, a DVD...

We do have the "Pet Sounds " Blu-Ray audio DVD on August 28th. Buying it 5 times already is not enough.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/august-2015-new-music-releases/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00P11J888/ref=tmm_bry_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=&sr=

ghostly mentioned the Dead.   Wouldn't It B Nice if the Beachboys would have encouraged taping like the Dead?   We could have had a treasure trove to explore like the dead heads do........maybe even a Beachboys satellite radio program..

If the Beach Boys reunite and do Pet Sounds, and film it, I can see the full DVD listing now:

Do It Again
Catch a Wave
Surfin Sufari
409
Shut Down
Little Deuce Coupe
I Get Around
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Sloop John B
God Only Knows
California Girls
Good Vibrations
Help Me Rhonda
Surfin USA
Kokomo
Barbara Ann
Fun Fun Fun

Running time 51 minute. 

Sorry BB fans, you'll have to look at the bootleg market for a complete show.

As someone else mentioned, it would be the opposite: Piggybacking a solo release on the back of a high-profile archival release program. And the reason for this idea was *very* simple: To get Mike Love (or any member who might be indifferent otherwise to archival releases) to warm to the idea.

I've heard that some of these guys have been pitched various sorts of archival releases, and they really just don't care. I don't know how opposed they are to it, but they clearly aren't motivated enough to push such a project forward. So the idea would be to sweeten the pot and pitch it to any or all of them by pointing out they can cross-promote whatever solo project that they actually may have *more* enthusiasm for. Clearly Mike is more interested in putting out "Pisces Brothers" than he is actively pushing for a release of, say, "Carry Me Home" (and no, I'm not implying he blocked that one from MIC; the point is that he's not, unprompted, calling up Elliott Lott and pushing hard for BB archival releases; nor are probably any of the guys).

Just as the Beatles, rather stunningly (in light of how it was, say, 20 or 30 years ago), are cross-promoting group and solo stuff up the wazoo, the BB's could do the same. I'm sure Ringo, for instance, might warm more to whatever Beatles release when he can also get promotion for his otherwise largely-ignored new solo album via the e-mail list and Facebook page for the "BEATLES", which has a buttload of followers and readers.

Just like QVC in 1993 - bit the box set, get SIP free.

Yes!

And, Amen!  ;)

The "holy grail" for me is the release of all the individual multi-tracks, thus allowing the listener to create his own mix and, more importantly, really delve into the details of how each song was created.

The technology certainly exists today to do this. Does anyone think there is even a remote chance of this ever happening?   

I’d love to have multitracks to dissect; I’ve had great fun pulling apart the stems from the Beatles “RockBand” game. But I’d much rather have outtakes and songs and recordings we haven’t heard as far as the Beach Boys goes. The holy grail for me would be 1-2 discs per album of unreleased material (the amount of available material varies of course from album to album). The priority for me is and has always been in this order: Fully unheard, unreleased songs (compositions), then alternate takes/versions/recordings of songs we know (including demos and studio takes), then a capella mixes, then backing tracks, and then miscellaneous remixes, etc. Live stuff is totally separate thing for me, although I wouldn’t mind live stuff on expanded album reissues if they didn’ t have alternate plans for all-live releases.

The multi-tracks idea is great and I’d buy it in a heartbeat, but it would hold a bit less interest and easy playability. At the end of the day, I’m going to pull out discs of immediately listenable stuff like “Carry Me Home” much more often than I’ll whip out a multi-track session of “I’m Waiting for the Day” to do my own mix. In fact, I have less interest in making my own mixes than I would just extracting all the tracks and isolating them to listen to. What I’d probably end up doing most often is dropping the instruments out and doing a vocals-only mix, which I think is something expanded album reissues need anyway.

That would have been nice but it was a completely different scenario with The Dead. Their setlists changed every single night and they would improv making the same song sound different from one night to the next. That is why they gained such a loyal following that would record and attend as many shows as possible. It would be great to have more live recordings from the late 60s - early 70s but recording every show during the late 70s to present would have been rather pointless. I personally don't need 50 different live recordings of Barbara Ann and Be True To Your School from the 1985 tour. With those later shows, it's best to just hand pick some of the standout shows (like a '93 box set show, an '88 show with This Whole World and Forever, etc.) Having said that, I do think if they had recorded every show of the C50 that it would have been worthwhile. I think if they would have released them for download or on cd (like Pearl Jam) during 2012 or shortly after, a good amount of people would have bought those as souvenirs of the show/shows they attended.

I'm pretty sure that I am not the only one here who would rather hear an audience recording of a 1972 show versus a pristine FM radio recording of a 1985 show. There was a time when our favorite band took chances and was far more adventurous in a live setting before eventually going on auto-pilot. Even if we're talking about studio outtakes here, would you rather hear the complete version of WIBNTLA or an alt take of "Da Doo Ron Ron"? There must be a cut-off point somewhere.

EDIT: Count me in as one who would love to play around with the multitracks!

I would love to see some of the concerts recorded for the "In Concert" album released.  Or at the very least, a version of each song played on those tours.

I wish they'd release the lot. Pure and simple…

Yawn.

Ok here's an issue I have with a lot of the BBs live releases...
AUTOTUNE!!!!

C50 CD is layered with autotune on Brian, Mike, and Dave's vocals, but none of them need it. They all sounded great live!

AND OH MY GOD. The Knebworth CD makes Mike sound like a robot! Listen to Little Deuce Coupe or Do It Again the autotune makes it sound atrocious compared to the original recording!

So if they release more live recordings--- I don't mind sweetening one note or two, BW even did that with the Concert album (aside from Fun Fun Fun and I Get Around- which were another level of sweetening  :lol) but please KEEP THE PITCH CORRECTION TASTEFUL- No T Pain please!

What's funny is that on the bootlegs of Knebworth Michael sounds...FINE. Yeah, not the same as the late 60s and early 70s heyday but it's not like he was singing like crap (and certainly not as bad as he would sound less than a year later once Carl went on hiatus).

Are we sure they used autotune on the Knebworth 1980 CD and DVD? I remember discussion of that back when it was released in 2002. Mike’s voice definitely has some processing on some songs. But I don’t recall hearing anything too heinous. I do know they were sometimes putting some effects on Mike’s voice in concert at that time in 1980. You can hear a bit of a sort of phase-ish, flange-ish (some would say very slightly robotic) sound on his lead vocal for some songs on at the July 4th, 1980 show.

There’s definitely nothing on the Knbworth releases even a tenth as obvious as some of Mike’s vocals on the C50 live album.

Either way, I don’t believe Boyd and company would put gobs of autotune on some archival boxed set of live material. I don’t sense any autotune on the live tracks on the MIC set; and that is probably a good taste of how a career-spanning boxed set or series of live releases would be.

Yeah, the 7/4/80 show has some weird anomalies in the sound in general. Might just be the quality of the recording I have (from radio).

How likely is it that the complete, unedited sessions for all of the Pet Sounds material (backing track sessions, vocal sessions, piano demos) would be released for the 50th anniversary next year?  I would think that the critical acclaim given to Love and Mercy would give such a release a better chance commercially than it would have had before.

Either way, I don’t believe Boyd and company would put gobs of autotune on some archival boxed set of live material. I don’t sense any autotune on the live tracks on the MIC set; and that is probably a good taste of how a career-spanning boxed set or series of live releases would be.

[/quote]

Wild Honey from Made In California was drenched in reverb making it sound not good to my ears.

Not sure anyone could squeeze another drop out of Pet Sounds, from a commercial point of view. The Sessions box has just been reissued, we've had the 40th anniversary releases, there're the Analogue Productions LPs and high-res SACD due out… Sea of Tines and Yellow Dog have the stray odds and sods covered. Most households in the developed world probably have a copy of the album in one format or another.

At what point would saturation be reached?



Okay, multi-tracks would make a few folk happy but is there sufficient demand to repay the investment the preparation of such a release would require? What's the most you'd pay for such a set? Realistically?

With all of the stuff in the vaults that still hasn’t been heard (just look at the tracklisting for those “Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks” CDs someone found; that compilation probably dates from *before* Alan Boyd and company did the extensive cataloging of the archives), I’d much rather see that sort of stuff than *more* PS sessions.

They will indeed continue to milk PS; I have little doubt we’ll see another reissue next year. But let them go ahead and keep repackaging it. In the meantime, what the BB’s need is an extensive, thoughtful series of releases from the archives, featuring stuff we haven’t heard. Ideally, they would pick a few sort of “flagship” archive releases they could push to retail (meaning mainly Amazon and the like), with a more extensive online release program. A single or double-disc set of a live career retrospective backed by an extensive online archive would perform well.

Now is also the time to start pushing “Carry Me Home” and more rare Dennis stuff. Even if they don’t really exist in one group of concentrated tapes, just put out a bunch of unreleased Brian-centric stuff and call it “The Bedroom Tapes” for marketing purposes. There’s still *hours* of quality studio material that MIC didn’t touch on. The ideas and possibilities are endless.

Pretty sure what you're hearing are studio overdubs (not an uncommon practice with live albums), not necessarily pitch correction.  At least for the Knebworth disc.

Seems like overkill.  The original box set for this album covered enough ground. 

Is there really hours of unreleased stuff?  I would like to see the following released officially:

Carry Me Home
Hard Times
I'm Going Your Way
Big Sur

There could be more.  Remember the group should have the right to refuse to release stuff like Running Bear and Battle Hymn of the Republic. I know I would!

I think the Paramount Rehearsals and live show should be a must, but Mike wasn't on the rehearsal and you could understand objections on that basis alone.

Definitely hours. Just those “Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks” alone would probably amount to at least an hour or two of solid stuff. Yes, there are going to be those who scoff at whatever 70’s or 80’s era stuff they feel is sub-par. It isn’t all A-list material. But there are definitely hours of material that are as good or better than stuff that made it onto the albums. That’s not even getting into vocals-only and instrumental mixes, remixes, etc. Just off the top of my head:

I’m Going Your Way
This Whole World (Alternate Version)
Add Some Music (Alternate)
‘Til I Die (Alternate Lyrics)
‘Til I Die (Demo)
Lazy Lizzie
Marilyn Rovell
Stevie
We Gotta Groove (w/ vocals)
Sea Cruise (Mike lead)
Numerous 15 Big Ones-era oldie outtakes if that floats your boat
The Rest of the ’77 X-Mas album tracks
Santa Ana Winds (Alternate)
Looking Down the Coast
California Dreamin’ (Early Version)
Lady/Fallin’ In Love (Un-futzed with stereo mix)
Carry Me Home
Big Sur (Original Version)
My Solution (Either or both versions)
4th of July (Alternate Version)
Trader (Early Version)
Most of the “Adult Child” stuff
The 1976 “Love You/Adult Child” Brian demo tape
The Spirit of Rock and Roll (’86 studio version with Mike and Bruce prepped for TV special)
California Calling (Alternate Version)
Numerous other alternate ’85 album cuts
Dancing the Night Away
Caroline, No (1996 backing vocals)

That’s just a random stream-of-consciousness list. No, it isn’t all A-grade material. I’m not even super into some fan favorites. But there’s enough bonus material easily for a second disc to accompany pretty much every album from 1970-1985, and/or a multi-disc set of rarities. They’d probably make the stuff more marketable (and less like a hodge podge of rejects) if they did deluxe reissues of the albums and tacked on a second (and maybe third in some cases) disc of bonus stuff.

 A lot of the things you mentioned seemed to me were listed on those "Proposed Brother Bonus tracks" CDs, but I tend to forget what is /isn't available from the 77 Xmas.
Can you line them out? 

I think there are only a handful of ’77 tracks that were left off of “Ultimate Christmas.” Off the top of my head, there is “Go and Get that Girl”, “Alone on Christmas Day”, and whatever the X-Mas version of “HELP is on the Way” was called.

that sounds mildly positive for me!

Checking Bellagio, I see these listed: 

Go And Get That Girl (Tuleja - Altbach) - 11/17 & 11/21/77 - Carl lead 

Christmas Day (B. Wilson - Love) - 11/17 & 11/22/77 - Mike lead    ( Presuming this is the same as Alone on Christmas Day)

Santa's On His Way - (B. Wilson - Jardine - Love) - late 1970 & 10-11/77 - Mike lead

   I guess the late 1970 for Santa would be the HELP track recording?

I would add
BB85
At the Hop

KTSA
I'll Always Love You
Surfer Susie
Can't Wait Too Long (1980 mix)

LA
Calendar Girl (Fall 1978 remake produced by Bruce)

MIU
Beach Burlesque
Mike Come Back to LA

15 BIG ONES
Michael Row the Boat Ashore

Plus
Seasons in the Sun

Thank Him
Glow Cresent Glow
I've Got a Friend (backing track)
10,000 Years Ago
Little Children
Out in the Country
River Song
Come To The Sunshine
Don't Let Me Go
Our Life, Our Love, Our Land

Who's the genius that convinced Mike (and everyone else, I'm guessing) to approve the slathering of atrocious Autotune on the Knebworth CD? It's so, so bad! I need to get a hold of the un-f*cked-with recording.

Seasons in the Sun is killer, and it's shocking that it has not been released thus far.

“Thank Him” was released on the copyright extension “Big Beat 1963” album.

More filler than killer. If that.

I never get that opinion! I know I appear to be in the minority of people who really dig it, but I never understand why people don't like it.

True but the sound quality....... hopefully an offical BB sanctioned release would be cleaned up somewhat.

If the BBs had just released it,  they'd have had another Million and two seller.  
Instead of Terry Jacks   ( But I just LUV Susan Jacks)  

I really like it. Sometimes I forget songs like that and Lookin' Down the Coast haven't been released as they are out there in good quality on some CDs.

When I said hours I was talking about unreleased songs as in not different mixes or alternate takes.  If we start to go down that road the number of hours of unreleased stuff would seem infinite.

I also don't think they are going to release At the Hop et al.  The Spirit of Rock n Roll (Hawaii) version is a good shout.  It's another one of those they missed the boat with.  Also some of the titles people want release may not be up to much or not exist.

As a record producer myself, I am defiantly hearing pitch correction, or autotune, on Mike's vocals. On California Girls, you can hear the notes jump from one to the next, instead of gradually sliding like the human voice normally sounds. Listen to when he says "those styles they wear". I feel like slabbing on autotune to vocals is such a standard now, producers and engineers even slather it onto recordings that sound good just because "it's what your supposed to do".  I often use manual pitch correction to fix maybe one  or two bad notes. But this sounds like automatic pitch correction, where you enter the key of the song, perhaps the key of Am, for example, and it makes all of the notes fit into that scale. But the problem is the notes jump, instead of moving gradually, which gives it that robotic tone.

I got the impression that while they may have been pressed on time and were just "getting it out there" to save the copyright, that they used the best available source for "Thank Him." I'm not sure a pristine version of it is extant.

Yes, pretty certain it probably came from the acetate that was picked off ebay (by Linett? )  for the BBs. Don't think there are/were any other saved copies; unless someone has the old wollensak tapes

How about a nice video anthology from the early TV appearances to the promo stuff for TWGMTR? 

I'd love to see that.  There's a few clips as bonus features on Endless Harmony and a few throughout America's Band, but I'd love to see a full DVD set. 

Video stuff is expensive and/or a rights nightmare. Best case scenario is that BRI puts out a concert video where they at least own the rights to the actual video. But even then, they have to pay for sync rights to every song (probably one of the reasons the C50 live video only has 21 songs, and probably one of the reasons Eagle Vision only ordered a 70-minute long video presentation from BRI for the Knebworth DVD). Stuff where the BB’s own the publishing either through Brother or one of their own publishing entities, that stuff could theoretically be cheaper to clear, as they could essentially cut themselves a deal.

A DVD full of TV clips and promo films/videos would be very difficult, because there would be all of the same costs to clear the actual songs, and then on top of that they’d have to license the TV clips from whatever entity owns the TV footage in question. Way too expensive for something that wouldn’t sell super well. I’d love it, but it’s very unlikely.

On the other hand, audio releases of material owned by BRI (live or studio) are extensively easier to do. They own the rights to the recordings, and only have to pay the same flat rate for the actual compositions. If BRI ever does some serious archive releases, it’ll be audio. Our best chance for video material would be a release of concert footage BRI owns.

So, anyway,  bought this cassette on ebay and it arrived today. Hoping that track 2 on side 2 is mis-titled and is really " Go and Get That Girl".
My cassette player is old and I'm not certain it works anymore, so I'm thinking I'll have to find someone locally that can help me transfer this to CD.( not mailing the tape again, that's for sure)  
  I'm guessing that other than the three songs that start side 2, the others should be the same versions everyone has heard?
This is the insert:  
    

Curious if Capitol actually was considering releasing the ’77 X-Mas album. “Promotional use only” sounds more like a promo copy of a ready-to-be-released product as opposed to an in-house compilation made for simple consideration. Certainly looks legit I suppose.

I can’t imagine the BB’s particularly wanting this out in 1993; they were sticklers for even stuff like “Loop de Loop” and “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” and those didn’t get released on the ’93 GV set.

Interesting that when the 1998 “Ultimate Christmas” CD came out, they noted that the original “Bells of Christmas” master mix was missing, so they had to remix it. Unless one of the weird, lazy titles on the cassette compilation is “Bells of Christmas”, it looks like they may have left that one off because they did no actual new mixes for the cassette and just pulled existing mixes. If “Bells of Christmas” is missing, it actually ironically makes it more likely it’s a legit thing and not a faked item pulled from boots.

  here's the Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beach-Boys-93-UNISSUED-DJ-VERS-OF-BEACH-BOYS-1977-CHRISTMAS-ALBUM-cassette-/400964791600   

 Sold by Perry Cox, noted Beatles author/historian and presumably author of the soon to be released Beach Boys price Guide( still waiting for  this! )

I don't understand, still, why the BBs would include Michael Row The Boat and Seasons In the Sun on a Christmas Album, if they were trying to sell  Reprise  on the idea of it as an actual worthy of being released product. 

Me? I have no doubts as to the legitimacy of the tape I bought, else I wouldn't have bid/bought. 

Were it a sealed item, I wouldn't even think about opening it, but as it's not, I'll find a way to dub it off. 
 And I'll let ya know what I think. 

Definitely appears legit. What I’m unsure of is whether the idea was pitched to the BB’s (or any of the BB’s pitched it to Capitol), or if Capitol did this on the sly with hopes of presenting it to the group. I still find it highly questionable as to whether BRI would have signed off on such a project (even in 1998 for “Ultimate Christmas”, members vetoed at least a few tracks).

What kind of access did Capitol have to these tapes in 1993? As I mentioned before, the fact that “Bells of Christmas” may be missing suggests Capitol didn’t have access to multi-tracks, and/or didn’t have time or money to bother doing new mixes until they had a go-ahead on the project. But at the same time, a full promo copy suggests the project was finished and mastered (or I’m just placing too much weight on “Promo” versus some sort of in-house working draft).

The obviously incorrect song title makes me also wonder about who made this and under what circumstances. It’s almost like some Capitol staffer was handed some tapes and told to slap something together. The only other possibility is that they wanted to retitle “Go and Get that Girl” as “Her Love Can Make You Feel Like Christmas Day” to make the holiday connection more obvious, but that’s an awfully loooong song title.

Does anyone recall mention of an attempt to release the ’77 X-Mas album in 1993. I’m curious if Mark Linett worked on this.

If the tracklisting for the album on AGD’s Bellagio website is in the actual order that the finished, submitted album was, then that might explain this 1993 tape, as it matches that tracklisting (other than the title variations). This then of course raises a very tiny tidbit I either never knew or had forgotten: “Bells of Christmas” was dropped from contention before they even submitted the ’77 X-Mas album? I guess *that* would explain why there was no vintage finished mix to source for the 1998 CD.

While I know everything you say is true, other bands have released video anthologies, and other bands have released full concerts on DVD over the years (some release a full concert DVD after every tour as well as releasing vintage concerts). 

Granted the TV footage thing could be an issue, but The Doors have released good compilations of promo films and TV appearances. 

The track ordering is legit (from a source other than Elliott) and it was submitted in 1978, not 1977.

Something like the Frank Sinatra Concert Collection would be amazing, but like HeyJude said, it would probably be very difficult to put together.

I think a lot of his has to do with the publishing and who owns it and what they charge for sync rights. Ironically, an indie band who owns their own publishing can do a live DVD much cheaper than the BB’s can, in terms of those sorts of overhead costs. The publishers charge a TON for the “classic” songs; doesn’t matter whether the BB’s or an unknown band are paying for it (though for all I know the publishers do cut a bulk deal for a high-profile BB video release, knowing it will sell well). They obviously are willing and able to cut deals that are affordable enough to do the releases they’ve done (keep in mind they’re often also negotiating for at least one or two Chuck Berry songs as well, and sometimes some other covers).

I’m guessing “California Girls” costs more to clear than “All This Is That”, especially since the producers of a DVD are negotiating with the BB’s themselves on the latter. That might be why we got a few surprising picks on the C50 Blu-ray/DVD considering it was only 21 songs, stuff like “Marcella” and “All This Is That” (and the new album songs are probably cheaper too).

As far as licensing TV show clips, that also ends up all over the map. I’ve heard licensing stuff from Dick Clark Productions for instance (American Bandstand, I think they also own the “One Man’s Challenge” footage) is super expensive. I’m guessing that may have cost more than the “Cool Cool Water” TV show clip (which brings up the issue of whether footage in releasable quality is even available; it was apparently a fluke that particular show survived).

True; I just refer to it that way based on recording dates.

I’m still curious if anyone can remember any mention back in 1993 of Capitol trying to simply dust off that 1978 album master and issue it, seemingly as-is. Considering the paucity of outtakes from that era on the 1993 GV boxed set, who thought BRI would want a full CD of what, without too much exaggeration, amounts to an album of outtakes from one of their lowest critical and commercial periods? I’m sure an X-Mas themed package will always snag some extra business during the holiday shopping season, but the album either in 1978 or 1993 is rather hodge-podge in nature.

So you outbid me on this! Luckily he had 4 so I got it on a 2nd chance offer. I'm scared to play it as I know how cassette players can mangle tapes. I'm curious to know if these are better quality mixes than boots. Maybe I'll get up the courage to rip to MP3

ahh, play it!!  odds are with you, not any old cassette player. then YOU can tell the world about OUR tape

If this is a legitimate Capitol issued cassette it would have been for internal use and not to sent out to DJ's as Perry Cox states.

And if this were intended for release circa 1993 it is extremely doubtful Capitol would have titled it "1977 Christmas Album" when released to the public.  Why are the artists listed as "THE BEACHBOYS" with BEACHBOYS being one word?

Perry Cox statement that the 1977 Warner/Reprise/Brother issuance was shelved "LIKELY DUE TO SOME CONFLICT WITH CAPITOL RECORDS WHO RETAINED THE RIGHTS FOR THEIR ORIGINAL 1964 VERSION CHRISTMAS ALBUM AND HAS ALWAYS REMAINED IN PRINT" is absolute nonsense. A collector like Mr. Cox should know that it has been common practice for years for artists who have issued a Christmas album on their former label to issue a newer one on their current label.

Just curious, since Perry Cox apparently has/had a number of these cassettes, if he has stated where and when he obtained them, and how many he obtained?

bgas and bryand, when you do get around to playing these cassettes, please report back on the sound quality.  For example, does Seasons in the Sun sound like a pristine copy from the master tapes, as one would expect if this is a legitimate release, or does it suffer from the multi-generational hiss and over modulation distortion found in varying degrees on most circulating copies?

And finally, does anyone have any info on when Perry Cox intends to finally release his long awaited Beach Boys Price Guide?

All interesting questions. If this was an internal/in-house item, then the weird spellings and notations and titles are at least plausible. That's why the "promotional use only" wording still puzzles me. Are there other examples of internal-use only items that are labeled as "promotional?" That wording makes me think it's something on the verge of potential commercial release, which clearly was not the case as far as I know with this in 1993.

It's very true; a simple listen to the contents would likely quickly reveal whether it's sourced from master tapes as opposed to boots. That material circulates in pretty decent quality, but definitely several generations down.

And again, this wasn't even originally Capitol-era material, so I'm trying to figure out how Capitol would have had access to 1977/78 tapes that are owned wholly by BRI.

  NOT necessarily to defend Mr. Cox, but are we looking at the same insert? ( Oh, never mind,I see you're referring only to the tape itself)  Possibly just a misprint( tho I'll admit that none of the other promos have such a glaring one)
As to that, who Knows? I suppose these COULD have been made by someone that wanted to make a little $$ and had some extra tapes around; (someone that worked at Capitol)
But that seems a lot of trouble to me.  
  as for other examples, here's another Promo I have had for a bunch of years that is similar. Perhaps it also was counterfeited by someone with access to Capitol's tape files/logos/manufacturing facilities, that wouldn't be worried about listing them on EBay and being found to be selling fake capitol products ?


Of course, it's only one sided, and made as a promo/sampler tool for the GV 30 years set. I believe Perry is auctioning some of these now/soon that he also bought/consigned from the same person that supplied the Xmas tape.  
 Now these two above are on a heavy paper insert, with perforated edges all around.  The Pet Sounds below, one of set of 4, is on really light paper/ no perforated edges, while the Still Cruisin is, again, heavier and it also has some texture, but no perforated edges.  

    

Other than the Xmas tape which I just received, all of these tapes sound pristine.  
Taking them all in, I guess it's possible the Xmas and the 30 years tapes are fakes; but I think it's just as likely they're genuine.
If anyone anywhere has some first hand insider's knowledge, I hope they'll step forward now.  

Oh, hey, forgot your most important question!  
I suggest if you want to know about the price guide, you ask Perry D Cox. (I'm tired of asking)
Use Ebay messages or email him on AOL. same as his name

Yes I will report back. I'm ordering a cassette to MP3 player so once I get that, I'll give it a listen. I'm hoping that the quality is improved from all those boots that have this release on it (that really won't take much).

I guess the main difference would be that the "promos" for the GV set and "Still Cruisin'" were just that, promotional copies of albums that were soon to be released and were already planned/approved.

But it's certainly possible that someone did an in-house thing for the X-Mas album and just used stock "promo" cards/labels.

This thing certainly seems rather obscure for someone to "fake"; and as we've been saying, the aural evidence will (probably) quickly reveal whether it's master-quality or taken from boots.

Most of the 77/78 X-Mas album is around in good quality. Obviously, the majority of tracks are on the "Ultimate Christmas" CD. "Go and Get that Girl" and "Alone on Christmas Day" float around out there in good quality, probably a good 7 to 8/10 score on sound quality. Same with "Seasons in the Sun." The stuff has a few dropouts/anomalies here and there certainly. "I Saw Mommy..." was included on the Carnie/Wendy "Hey Santa" album (not sure if it was remixed for that). I think the other stuff circulates in relatively good quality.

Outside of collectability, the main deal with this would be the sonic upgrade of 5 or so songs.

I'm *still* curious to hear if anyone even recalls one utterance of a plan back in 1993 to put this out. I ask this more because, if someone was wandering around Capitol in the 90's just slapping together BB archival releases without any prompting, going so far as to master a reference/in-house copy of the stuff, I'm curious what *else* might surface from that era.

Being a fan of Christmas music, and the years 1976-77 being a favorite Beach Boys' period, I would like to see an official release of the attempted 1977 Christmas album. The material isn't the strongest and some of the vocals are ragged - actually some of them are embarrassing. Still, there are a few gems on there, some of the moments are touching, and if nothing else, it is a fascinating picture of the group at that time in their career. I assumed that some of those songs didn't make the cut on Ultimate Christmas because they were weak; obviously they didn't get any stronger over the years. :p There probably isn't a snowball's chance in hell (pun intended) of any such official release. But, each winter I hope that somebody will assemble those songs, remix them, remaster them, write some informative liner notes, include some cool photos and album cover, and release it with a budget price.

The Beach Boys - Christmas Time Is Here Again (1977)

01  Christmas Time Is Here Again
02  Winter Symphony
03  Melekalikimaka
04  Go And Get That Girl
05  Santa's On His Way
06  Santa's Got An Airplane
07  Child Of Winter

08  (I Saw Santa) Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree
09  I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus
10  Michael Row The Boat Ashore
11  Morning Christmas
12  Alone On Christmas Day
13  Bells Of Christmas
14  Christmas Carol Medley 

- "Go And Get That Girl" isn't very Christmasey (another pun intended), I think only one line even refers to Christmas, but we need Carl Wilson on the album.

- "Michael Row The Boat Ashore" isn't a Christmas song either, but I love it and I want it released! It does, however, have words like "Hallelujah" in it, and the line "the river Jordan is CHILLY and COLD" (did Mike re-phrase that?). It also references children ("sister help to trim the sail") which leads into the next couple of children-related  songs.

- "Seasons In The Sun" just never seemed to fit as a Christmas song, so I didn't include it. I hate to sacrifice the Carl lead vocal, but the lyrics aren't holiday-themed in any way other than the word "seasons", and the song sounds a little dated, much like "Good Time" on Love You and almost "Games Two Can Play" on Adult Child.

- "Child Of Winter" IS a couple of years older than the other songs, but it doesn't sound like it. It is essential.

Interesting that you should mention this as the reason why it survives is because a tape operator friend of Alan Boyd's made himself a copy of the performance while working at the company that syndicated the David Frost show. Sadly, the master tape was subsequently destroyed.

1 - I don't recall word one about any such release in 1993.

2 - the band leased all the post-Capitol material to, uh, Capitol in, I think, 1992... hence the 2000 Brother-Reprise 2fers.

I know BRI obviously licensed out specific Brother-era stuff for the GV boxed set, but did they have a specific contract with Capitol all the way back in 1992 for all of the Brother-era albums and first rights of refusal on released and unreleased material?

I know they licensed the material out to them for the 2000 two-fers, but I’m not sure that was based on a contract dating all the way back to 1992. And even if that was the case, how would Capitol have been accessing unreleased material like the ’77 recordings?

I guess the idea I’m getting around to is, I’m not sure this tape would exist unless BRI allowed Capitol access to the tapes (either based on BRI instigating work on it, or Capitol having the idea), and this doesn’t strike me as something that BRI would have signed off on, let alone something they would have instigated work on. Clearly, if the project was planned, it was obviously shelved for some reason subsequently. I’m just thinking, unlike the “Rarities” album in 1983 where Capitol essentially just pulled whatever tapes they already had on-site in their possession, it seems unlikely they would have had Brother-era outtakes at their fingertips in 1993, unless BRI recalled any tapes held by CBS/Epic/Sony and had them all sent to Capitol instead of back to BRI.

I’m probably examining this way too closely!  :lol

I'm thinking the most logical explanation is that this tape circulated in-house at Capitol in 1993 to showcase some unreleased BB tracks from 1977, primarily Christmas tunes, with the thought being "Hey, what are the possibilities for this stuff?" And five years later many of these tracks made it onto Capitol's Ultimate Christmas CD.

As Andrew points out, the track listing matches that reported to have been submitted to Warner/Reprise by the BBs in 1978.  And as HeyJude points out, "Bells of Christmas" is missing, as would be expected.

So the really cool possibility here is getting some tracks in far better sonic condition than currently circulate.

Thanks, bgas, for posting the scans of the cassette J card inserts. it's really cool to see rare stuff like this. If you're up for it, it would be great to also see photos/scans of the cassettes themselves, although Perry Cox's eBay listing does include a photo of the cassette for the 77 Christmas Album.

bgas and bryand, looking forward to reports of audio quality on the tracks that have never been officially released.

Soitanly

The “In My Car” single is hilarious. Painfully obvious it had very little to do with the Beach Boys, and perhaps Landy wanted to emphasize Brian even though it's ostensibly a BB release. Kevin Leslie gets a credit, the other musicians gets a credit, but nowhere does it mention that Al and Carl sing the lead on the song with Brian!

While on that topic, does anybody know what the  “Special Single Remix” of the song sounds like? There’s an alternate mix of the song on one of those 90’s Brian boots (one of the versions of Sweet Insanity I think?), and I always wondered where that came from. I’m guessing it came from that promo single remix. That remix isn’t super different; the most obvious difference is that the big deep synth note is mixed out during the first drum break that leads into the second verse.