Are Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks currently estranged?

[nakostopoulos]

On an old thread related to VDP, I saw references to Parks being upset with regards to TLOS. What exactly is the story there? Also, I wondered why there no contribution from him in TSS booklet. And, in recent interviews, his willingness to talk about Brian and Smile ranges from quiet reticence to barely-veiled frustration, though he never really goes into specifics.

It saddens me to think that two people who have, more often than not, been on the same creative wavelength are at odds; the story of their reunion on BWPS represents what I think is a nice contrast to all the miscommunication and bitterness that's evidence in all other things BBs.

So, what gives?

[Wirestone]

No one knows for sure. Or rather, those who do know for sure haven't said or aren't willing to say.

From what I've read of Van's recent comments, he seems disappointed to have not been more richly rewarded after such a long run in the business. One of his pre-requisites to rejoining the BWPS project was having his publishing rights restored to some songs his name had been taken off of through the years.

In other words, credits and fair compensation mean a lot to him (as they would to most of us, I imagine). One might assume that something broke down along those lines.

[nakostopoulos]

No one knows for sure. Or rather, those who do know for sure haven't said or aren't willing to say.

One of his pre-requisites to rejoining the BWPS project was having his publishing rights restored to some songs his name had been taken off of through the years.

In other words, credits and fair compensation mean a lot to him (as they would to most of us, I imagine). One might assume that something broke down along those lines.

I just finished reading Priore's book, and I understood the implication of the passage to mean that his credits to "Wind Chimes" and "Wonderful" were going to be restored to him after he discussed it with Melinda and Brian. He did continue with the project, and attended the shows, after all.

Damn shame, if he was stiffed further

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

On an old thread related to VDP, I saw references to Parks being upset with regards to TLOS. What exactly is the story there? Also, I wondered why there no contribution from him in TSS booklet. And, in recent interviews, his willingness to talk about Brian and Smile ranges from quiet reticence to barely-veiled frustration, though he never really goes into specifics.

It saddens me to think that two people who have, more often than not, been on the same creative wavelength are at odds; the story of their reunion on BWPS represents what I think is a nice contrast to all the miscommunication and bitterness that's evidence in all other things BBs.

So, what gives?

VDP had a very commendable reason for not writing an essay for the TSS box. I cant say what it is, because I was asked not to by the person who told me. Just know that there was no personal pettiness involved with that particular aspect of this whole mess. I have no idea why theyre on the outs now, but I think it's a terrible shame.

[Autotune]

Regarding TLOS I read a quote (on a Spanish newspaper) that he was expecting it to be a collaboration between friends but it ended up being something entirely different (i.e. not having access to Brian).

[Mr. Verlander]

No one knows for sure. Or rather, those who do know for sure haven't said or aren't willing to say.

One of his pre-requisites to rejoining the BWPS project was having his publishing rights restored to some songs his name had been taken off of through the years.

In other words, credits and fair compensation mean a lot to him (as they would to most of us, I imagine). One might assume that something broke down along those lines.

I just finished reading Priore's book, and I understood the implication of the passage to mean that his credits to "Wind Chimes" and "Wonderful" were going to be restored to him after he discussed it with Melinda and Brian. He did continue with the project, and attended the shows, after all.

Damn shame, if he was stiffed further

Not saying that that part isn't true; however, I'd take a few of the things that you read in that book with a shaker of salt.

[nakostopoulos]

VDP had a very commendable reason for not writing an essay for the TSS box. I cant say what it is, because I was asked not to by the person who told me. Just know that there was no personal pettiness involved with that particular aspect of this whole mess. I have no idea why theyre on the outs now, but I think it's a terrible shame.

Does it have anything to do with objections raised by Mr. Positivity? Blink once for yes, twice for no.  

But, in all seriousness, it is a terrible shame.

[nakostopoulos]

Regarding TLOS I read a quote (on a Spanish newspaper) that he was expecting it to be a collaboration between friends but it ended up being something entirely different (i.e. not having access to Brian).

This whole "not having access to Brian thing"; does it weird anybody else out that the first thing it brings to mind is the schemes of Landy? It leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth...

[Komera]

I follow Van Dyke's Twitter.  He mentions Beach Boys every now and then, especially SMiLE (which is understandable), and mentions of Brian are usually coupled with praise.  I don't get any ill feelings from him about Brian.

Well... the only real negativity I can recall seeing from his Twitter is about the environment.  But then again, 90% of his tweets are either replies to someone else, or somehow filled with seventeen simultaneous different topics despite the character limit.  He's definitely a word-smith.  His tweets can be blazingly hard to decipher.

[37!ws]

Oh, you know how some people are.

VDP said that he hasn't spoken to Brian in a while apparently means they're enemies.

Brian says "The ocean scares me," which means obviously that Brian is afraid of water.

[Amy B.]

There's a little bit of...snarkiness sometimes.

@thevandykeparks  15m15 minutes ago
"Lover"--Les Paul.
He pioneered multi-tracking. He didn't have a publicist to call him a genius. It's self-evident. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U3mJfbYKvBE&autoplay=1 …

But that doesn't mean they're estranged.

[Shady]

Didn't VDP publicly call Brian a "buffoon" not so long ago.

Yeah, I'd say they are estranged.

[CenturyDeprived]

Didn't VDP publicly call Brian a "buffoon" not so long ago.

Yeah, I'd say they are estranged.

I think he used the term "buffoonary" in regards to some specific behavior/incident, which is different from calling someone a buffoon.

[clack]

VDP was referring to Brian's antics during the recording of SMiLE -- you know, stuff like having the musicians wear fire helmets. Can be seen, in one mood, as charming eccentricity, in another mood as buffoonery. Or maybe just another word for "clowning around".

Whether VDP meant it negatively is in the eye of the beholder, I guess...

[Fire Wind]

Specifically, he said he was 'victimized by Brian Wilson's buffoonery', which suggests he was feeling miffed at the time he said it, but then he didn't elaborate for the interviewer.

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

He also tweeted at the time Loren Daro was posting here, supporting his viewpoint.

But he also said he was floored by Brian's choice of him as a favourite collaborator during one of the recent Q&As, and praised his Brian's own lyrics on Til I Die.

[dcowboys107]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

It kind of reminds me of Mick Jagger's experience with John and Yoko. When he was estranged from her, they were best friends and doing things. However, when she got back in the picture, she cut all access off to him.

It sounds like anyone who wants or needs to work with Brian ends up getting a half-assed experience which really pisses me off. I bet Mike felt the same damn way as VDP for the last BB album.

[Fire Wind]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

I don't feel it, myself.  I was just thinking of Mike and the last BB album.  For all I know, Brian could just be keeping these collaborators at bay using others as intermediaries.

[HeyJude]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

It kind of reminds me of Mick Jagger's experience with John and Yoko. When he was estranged from her, they were best friends and doing things. However, when she got back in the picture, she cut all access off to him.

It sounds like anyone who wants or needs to work with Brian ends up getting a half-assed experience which really pisses me off. I bet Mike felt the same damn way as VDP for the last BB album.

Equating Melinda to Landy has been going on since I started reading BB stuff on the internet in the late 90’s. Considering all of the info and context Ray Lawlor has offered on that and related topics in the last year or two right here on this board, it’s really unfair to equate her with Landy.

That isn’t to say politics are never at play when it comes to the BB’s in all of their iterations (when are politics *not* at play?). But I’m guessing, at least *sometimes*, Brian doesn’t work with a given person at a given point because he doesn’t want to.

But when people seem to feel they can’t “get to” Brian, I think that sort of stuff is not any sort of Landy-esque control. Rather, that’s the same politics and insulation involved in most interactions among famous musicians/celebrities. Many if not most such people have layers of people around them. Not controlling them, but doing stuff for them. Yes, those people are sometimes a buffer.

But if VDP was invited to be a part of TLOS, and Mike was part of the C50 reunion, then I’m not sure what sort of room they have to complain about not having “access” to Brian. Those scenarios sound to me more like Brian is enlisting help for specific things. Inviting someone else to work on a project doesn’t always mean Brian wants to sit down with you and write songs on a 50/50 split from scratch. Look at Jardine’s involvement on “No Pier Pressure.” Brian has used terms like “we used Al for some songs.” To me, it’s a case of Brian knowing what he wants and delegating certain things to certain people. He thinks Al will sound good on a track. He has Al come in and sing it. It’s not an invitation to write stuff together. Maybe it’s not always touchy-feely and warm and fuzzy, but frankly that shows a more active and focused Brian working on a project.

Also, as it pertains to Mike and writing with Brian in 2012, as Howie Edelson and others have pointed out, by seemingly everybody’s account, Brian and Mike were together on the road for MONTHS and without Melinda there for most of that time, and the evidence doesn’t indicate that Mike ever put any effort into writing with Brian. On tours, there is plenty of downtime, and a keyboard always nearby. As was mentioned, 2012 was the most time Brian and Mike had spent together on a daily basis since probably 1981.

[Marty Castillo]

Equating Melinda to Landy has been going on since I started reading BB stuff on the internet in the late 90’s. Considering all of the info and context Ray Lawlor has offered on that and related topics in the last year or two right here on this board, it’s really unfair to equate her with Landy.

That isn’t to say politics are never at play when it comes to the BB’s in all of their iterations (when are politics *not* at play?). But I’m guessing, at least *sometimes*, Brian doesn’t work with a given person at a given point because he doesn’t want to.

But when people seem to feel they can’t “get to” Brian, I think that sort of stuff is not any sort of Landy-esque control. Rather, that’s the same politics and insulation involved in most interactions among famous musicians/celebrities. Many if not most such people have layers of people around them. Not controlling them, but doing stuff for them. Yes, those people are sometimes a buffer.

But if VDP was invited to be a part of TLOS, and Mike was part of the C50 reunion, then I’m not sure what sort of room they have to complain about not having “access” to Brian. Those scenarios sound to me more like Brian is enlisting help for specific things. Inviting someone else to work on a project doesn’t always mean Brian wants to sit down with you and write songs on a 50/50 split from scratch. Look at Jardine’s involvement on “No Pier Pressure.” Brian has used terms like “we used Al for some songs.” To me, it’s a case of Brian knowing what he wants and delegating certain things to certain people. He thinks Al will sound good on a track. He has Al come in and sing it. It’s not an invitation to write stuff together. Maybe it’s not always touchy-feely and warm and fuzzy, but frankly that shows a more active and focused Brian working on a project.

Also, as it pertains to Mike and writing with Brian in 2012, as Howie Edelson and others have pointed out, by seemingly everybody’s account, Brian and Mike were together on the road for MONTHS and without Melinda there for most of that time, and the evidence doesn’t indicate that Mike ever put any effort into writing with Brian. On tours, there is plenty of downtime, and a keyboard always nearby. As was mentioned, 2012 was the most time Brian and Mike had spent together on a daily basis since probably 1981.

I agree. I think the Landy-Melinda comparisons are way off base.

I do think comparing NPP and TLOS collaborators on Brian Wilson solo projects to the perceived lack of collaboration on TWGMTR by Mike and other Beach Boys is a little bit of a stretch. I understand that historically Beach Boys records have had varying degrees of input from all the members. Much like the touring band has had varying degrees of participation from the surviving members. That is not a judgement, as much as, reality. I get the sense that Mike perceives that Brian has dominion over Beach Boys studio work, while Mike has control over Beach Boys touring band. Unfortunately, Brian doesn't want greater input from Mike in the studio and Mike doesn't want to compromise the way he tours. I, like others, believe the sum is better than the individual parts.

[rab2591]

For TLOS, he wasn't allowed access to Brian while collaborating?  Sounds familiar.

Not trying to be polemic here, but am I the only one here who gets the Landy vibe from Melinda/his handlers?

I'm curious, who do you think these "handlers" specifically are?

Also, fantastic post, HeyJude.

[Mike's Beard]

Comparing Melinda to Landy is wrong because Melinda is not using Brian for her own gains like he did and she has his best interests at heart. Still the woman is both his wife AND his manager, if anyone is in a position to determine Brian's interactions, it is her.

[ontor pertawst]

It gets worse than that. Much worse, Mike's Beard. She has an app on her phone that controls him and streamlines the process. There's a button for smile, a button for "do some hand gestures," and one for "never ever get in a room alone with Mike."



Fig. 5554. The Mastermind at work. PULL THE STRING!

[Autotune]

I think VDP is ambivalent when it comes to Brian and his work with him. And Brian is probably the same way regarding VDP (cue in Ringo's birthday bash speech). All of it is understandable considering their differences in personality, creative type, lifestyle and success. There is a mutual respect, if not friendship, that underlies their relationship I think. Both of them were haunted by the Smile aftermath in different ways. I'm not sure how much of a fan of Van's music Brian is (he was very vocal against certain songs on OCA). Van probably feels his role in Smile is downplayed; and sometimes he seems a little bitter at being known for his association with a savant, himself being the learned type.

Regarding having access to Brian, it's reasonable for a lyricist to feel frustrated if he can't work alongside his composer. But still, seeing how he works with Thomas, Scott and others, perhaps Brian himself avoided such meetings, and likely used buffers for it. Showbiz workings, as a previous poster said. I wonder what their collaboration for The Waltz was like.

[Mike's Beard]

It gets worse than that. Much worse, Mike's Beard. She has an app on her phone that controls him and streamlines the process. There's a button for smile, a button for "do some hand gestures," and one for "never ever get in a room alone with Mike."



Fig. 5554. The Mastermind at work. PULL THE STRING!

Is there anything those folks at Apple can't do when they put their mind to it?

[dcowboys107]

For the record I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison between Landy and Melinda but I apologize for mentioning the two together and making an unfair connection.

My main point is how it seems that people go into a project with BW and end up getting something different. I agree that whoever manages him has the right to control the experience but that'd sure be a let down if I were in that situation and would piss me off.