My Witness

[KDS]

I was under the impression that Eichenberg with never a full member of Brian's band, but just filling in for Matt Jardine due to some scheduling conflict. 

[RubberSoul13]

I was under the impression that Eichenberg with never a full member of Brian's band, but just filling in for Matt Jardine due to some scheduling conflict. 

That was sort of the vibe I got as well, but our friends here are referring to this activity otherwise...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I was under the impression that Eichenberg with never a full member of Brian's band, but just filling in for Matt Jardine due to some scheduling conflict. 

So why the statement on the FF website that he was leaving then to concentrate full-time on the BWB ?

[KDS]

I was under the impression that Eichenberg with never a full member of Brian's band, but just filling in for Matt Jardine due to some scheduling conflict. 

So why the statement on the FF website that he was leaving then to concentrate full-time on the BWB ?

Maybe he, or the FF, were under the impression that he was joining Brian's band full time. 

Communication in the music industry is a lost art. 

[HeyJude]

I think the abrupt and pointed nature of Brian announcing Matt's return ("effective immediately"), all within a few days/weeks of Ike appearing on Kimmel and then Matt (and not Ike) appearing on Conan, and then soon after the announcement that Ike has joined Mike's band, would tend to suggest the possibility that all parties involved did not simply depart their respective positions as planned, with no specific future plan, and then just coincidentally, organically landed in their respective new bands.

I don't know if "poaching" is always the best term to use, as I think there is room for scenarios with some of these band moves in the last couple years where the procurement of a new band member can be a rather overt statement in terms of BB-politics even if the person is question was not literally or directly "stolen" or "lured" away from the other band. There are a lot of grey areas all up in there.

[KDS]

Am I the only one who thinks that one day there's going to be a really interesting book written about the Beach Boys post Carl Wilson history? 

Loads of stories there:

David Marks in and out of the group
Brian's reemergence as a solo artist
Al's attempt at a Beach Boys Friends & Family Group
Brian touring Pet Sounds
The American Family Movie
Mike and Bruce's Beach Boys
Brian resurrecting Smile
GIOMH, What I Really Want for Xmas, TLOS, BWRG, Disney
Beach Boys reunion album & tour
The Jeff Beck Tour
The failed Jeff Beck album
Foskett leaving Brian's band for Mike's
Al being asked by Live Nation to play with The Beach Boys for a one off
No Pier Pressure
Love and Mercy
Brian Eichenberg

[shadownoze]

Am I the only one who thinks that one day there's going to be a really interesting book written about the Beach Boys post Carl Wilson history? 

Loads of stories there:

David Marks in and out of the group
Brian's reemergence as a solo artist
Al's attempt at a Beach Boys Friends & Family Group
Brian touring Pet Sounds
The American Family Movie
Mike and Bruce's Beach Boys
Brian resurrecting Smile
GIOMH, What I Really Want for Xmas, TLOS, BWRG, Disney
Beach Boys reunion album & tour
The Jeff Beck Tour
The failed Jeff Beck album
Foskett leaving Brian's band for Mike's
Al being asked by Live Nation to play with The Beach Boys for a one off
No Pier Pressure
Love and Mercy
Brian Eichenberg

I'd buy a copy of that right this second! Peter Carlin, where are you?

[HeyJude]

I agree. Unfortunately, there’s an apparent mixture of a lack of interest in it and a lot of sensitivity on the subject. I started a thread awhile back about a 1998 or 99 article that mentioned Mike “refused to appear” on stage with Carl, and honestly was just trying to get to the bottom of that, and the thread started a bit s***storm of “anti-Mike” accusations and the like. I’m still glad I started that thread, because Ray Lawlor was able to clarify what had happened and that Mike had sent a letter out in 1997 regarding Carl.

As for the lack of interest, I remember asking Peter Carlin on this board about some stuff on this topic that was mentioned in his book. He can feel free to chime in if he still posts here, but I recall when asking about the book’s mention of an attempt to oust Al from the band as early as *1990*, Carlin just mentioned he had seen some sort of paperwork that mentioned this, but he didn’t seem particularly interested in this to dig deeper.

[KDS]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem." 

But he was reinstated prior to the release of the album and the tour that followed. 

This is why I'd love to get an autobiography from Al too. 

[CenturyDeprived]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem."  

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

[KDS]

I think being asked to play on some of the dreck on SIP would give anyone an attitude problem.

[Wirestone]

I have thought for some time that an amazing biography could (and should) be written about Brian's life. The group, too. I'm reading Lewisohn's "Tune In" about the Beatles and am overcome with envy. The granular detail is so impressive.

I worry that so many folks from the group's prime (like Jack R.) are fading away, and those involved more recently are unwilling to speak on the record. Put simply, someone should be interviewing all these folks, in detail and in depth, and promising to keep the material sealed for a certain number of years. Imagine what we could learn about the last few years!

[adamghost]

"Nobody owns the pleasure of tones...that belongs to the guy with no ears."

--Frank Black

Music is a subjective experience and should be enjoyed as such.  An honest interested discussion about the music should in no way detract from one's personal enjoyment of it.  If people hear things you don't, well, it's been that way since the beginning of time.  That's how it is 'sposed to be.  Vive la difference.

There's nothing wrong with a spirited discussion.  Getting emotionally invested in the outcome to the point that you believe others have an agenda when you're just contributing your two or three cents -- well, that seems to kind of run counter to the spirit of a message board.  But, people with strong attachments do tend to inform that meaning into whatever they read, regardless of what the writer's intent was. 

At the end of the day, if something like posting on a message board is fun to do and strengthens connections with like-minded others, people will participate.  And if it doesn't, they won't. 

[SMiLE Brian]

Imagine getting the dirt on the (imaginary) Al Jardine blackjack and hookers incident on the C50.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem."  

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

Mike enlarged on said problem in an interview in Goldmine, and the resolution thereof. As I recall, Alan's general negativity was annoying everyone so he was "suspended".

[SMiLE Brian]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem."  

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

It was Al's only escape from the freakshow that was the 1990s BBs under Mike Love's dictatorship. If my band went from pet sounds/smile to cheerleaders, the wipeout rap, stamos, and general ML cheese, I would be negative as hell.

[CenturyDeprived]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem."  

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

Mike enlarged on said problem in an interview in Goldmine, and the resolution thereof. As I recall, Alan's general negativity was annoying everyone so he was "suspended".

My point being, it happened because political circumstances allowed that it could happen. I'm guessing that Mike was the person pushing for Al's suspension, though maybe I'm wrong about that. But I sincerely doubt that at various points throughout the band's career (ie. C50, but other times too), that Mike himself wouldn't have at any point be thought of having an attitude problem himself (by other band members) - maybe not the same "type" of attitude problem - but the politics have allowed him to not be "suspended" himself. Mike suspends others for not agreeing with his agenda, but has maneuvered to never run the risk of getting suspended himself (and yes, I know that BRI can be blamed for that situation of power to transpire). It just seems hypocritical from the outside - but hey, what do I know (and I honestly say that in all sincerity).

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have no further knowledge of the details, but given the prevailing BRI setup, it had to be a majority decision. Anyone know better/different, please chime in.

[CenturyDeprived]

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem."  

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

It was Al's only escape from the freakshow that was the 1990s BBs under Mike Love's dictatorship. If my band went from pet sounds/smile to cheerleaders, the wipeout rap, stamos, and general ML cheese, I would be negative as hell.

Exactly. I can only imagine how much Al wanted/needed to vent at that time. I can only imagine how much unjust crap and unfair treatment (compared to the Wilsons and Love) Al has endured over the years. Compare how Carl (because he was a Wilson) was fortunately allowed to leave the band in 1981 and put his foot down about the band going to sh*t, but when Al couldn't take the band sinking to new lows, and dared to speak his mind in some way, he got pushed out and essentially beaten down into submission. Al really must feel like a second-class citizen in BB world.

[CenturyDeprived]

I have no further knowledge of the details, but given the prevailing BRI setup, it had to be a majority decision. Anyone know better/different, please chime in.

You're probably right, but I have to guess that by that point, Carl was done fighting in general, and any majority voters were probably afraid to rock to money-making boat too much. To stick up for Al would have been to get into a long, icky fight, and this was concurrent with surely one of the hardest times in Carl's life -trying to get Brian free of Landy. Regardless of which way he voted, I have sincere doubts that Carl would have been much more thrilled than Al was with the direction the BBs were taking in the early 90s. Does anyone really think the majority vote (beyond Mike's vote) had much to do with anything besides giving in due to fear of boat-rocking?

I think there was only 1 BB who was actually enthusiastic about that direction. It seems that Mike's power plays (early 90s w/ Al, late 90s again with Al after Carl's passing) came during a time of emotional turmoil within the BB universe, where all parties involved in the decision making process may not have been thinking with optimal clear-headedness.

[SMiLE Brian]

Don't forget Bruce since he was the architect of the love-Melcher axis that drove the BBs in kokomo and beyond cheese territory. I think Mike was really excited about this new direction since he made SIP and put the creepfest known as "summer of love" on baywatch.   

[HeyJude]

As pertains to the “Summer in Paradise” era where Al was “suspended”; my guess is that he probably wasn’t suspended in any official sense. They were doing the SIP sessions all in-house on their own dime, and I would guess they just suggested or told Al not to come to the sessions. The sessions seemed to be very much a Love/Melcher production anyway, so I sense some of the other BB’s like Carl weren’t always there either.

If Al had been “suspended” from the group itself, he would have missed some vast run of shows during that time period, and there’s no evidence he missed any large run of shows.

That “Goldmine” interview Mike gave at that time is one of the only information sources on this time period that we have. I’ve always been amused at that interview though. At one point, he talks about how they did some group therapy sessions to air some of their grievances. Sounds like a fair enough idea. But I remember thinking it was weird that Mike used one of his own friends as the therapist. If I had been Al (or Carl), I might have been off-put by the potential for a lack of objectivity.

[CenturyDeprived]

As pertains to the “Summer in Paradise” era where Al was “suspended”; my guess is that he probably wasn’t suspended in any official sense. They were doing the SIP sessions all in-house on their own dime, and I would guess they just suggested or told Al not to come to the sessions. The sessions seemed to be very much a Love/Melcher production anyway, so I sense some of the other BB’s like Carl weren’t always there either.

If Al had been “suspended” from the group itself, he would have missed some vast run of shows during that time period, and there’s no evidence he missed any large run of shows.

That “Goldmine” interview Mike gave at that time is one of the only information sources on this time period that we have. I’ve always been amused at that interview though. At one point, he talks about how they did some group therapy sessions to air some of their grievances. Sounds like a fair enough idea. But I remember thinking it was weird that Mike used one of his own friends as the therapist. If I had been Al (or Carl), I might have been off-put by the potential for a lack of objectivity.

While I think it would be an excellent idea for these guys to have attended proper therapy sessions together, that's ridiculous if the therapist was a friend and not objective. There's an old episode of the TV show Dallas, where JR Ewing does a similar thing for a marriage therapist that he and his wife attend; JR is paying off the therapist to manipulate his advice. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall during the BB therapy sessions. Too bad we don't have a movie about the sessions, like Metallica's Some Kind of Monster.