The Smiley Smile Message Board

I don’t have to tell you things have gotten bad on SmileySmile.com. Everyone knows things are bad. Everybody feels the difference in tone on the board, or they feel scared of being screamed at and piled on by the same six or eight Kokotrolls who are running wild and who come out simultaneously as they are dominating the board with their anti-BW agenda whenever there is a positive thread. We know that their rants are completely unfit in relation to reality and even more unfit to read, and yet we sit there and absorb it day in and day out, as if that’s the way it’s supposed to be. We know things are bad...they are worse than bad, they are crazy. It’s depressing. Anyone sane here wants to have decent intelligent discussions about The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson, but a small group of zealots from the state of KokoDopia have intentionally hijacked this board and continually clog up threads with a specific agenda: delegitimize anything and everything related to Brian Wilson. There is nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do about it and there's no end to it.

Now I don't know what to tell you on what to do about the Vibe Room police who patrol and troll these threads, you know who they are, I don’t have to point them out to you. Then you sit in front of your computer screens, thinking of playing with your PS4s, while some uninformed self- anointed expert rants about phantom Autotune, vocal processing and Joe Thomas as if it were all fact and the way it’s supposed to be instead of what it really is: just a cavalcade of wankers with an agenda and on a mission, who know as much about the recording process as they do about fornicating. But some of you just sit there and accept this garbage and say nothing.  It's almost as if you are asking them to just, please, let me have my iPad , my iPhone, my PS4 and my computer and I won’t say anything, just please let us have our little space to listen to and enjoy No Pier Pressure in peace and leave us alone.

Well I'm not going to leave you alone, I want you to get MAD. I don’t want you to protest about the board, I don’t want you to write to the moderators because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write. I don’t know what to do about the "neutral" board historian who will not admit publicly he is solidly in Mike Love’s camp, who will not admit publicly he is working with Mike Love on his book, who has already tried to rewrite Beach Boys history on this board, to tailor it to this fictional alternate KokoDopian reality, who tries and has succeeded in getting members who he vehemently disagrees with banned - someone who bullies anyone who doesn't bend the knee off of the board. I don’t know what to tell you about all the lies and spin like the firing of Randell Kirsch, like the Love termination of C50, the phantom Autotune and all the other fabrications of the Vibe Room police, all I know is first YOU’VE GOT TO GET MAD. You have to say "I am a knowledgeable, serious fan, Gosh Darn it, my opinion has value." This band and it’s creative force Brian Wilson have meaning. The legacy of the greatest band in American history should not be cheerleaders, Stamos, Pisces Brothers and wheeennnnnn.
One original member and a replacement of an original member do not constitute The Beach Boys.

So: I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs.  I want you to get up right now, grab your copy of Summer in Paradise, and go to the window, open it, throw it out, then stick your head out, and yell  "I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE."  I want you to get up right now, get up, go to your windows, open them, stick your head out, toss out your copy of Summer in Paradise and yell "I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE." Then we’ll figure out what to do about the Vibe Room Cops and the spin control and the former neutral board historian trying to rewrite Beach Boys history. Things have got to change but first YOU’VE GOT TO GET MAD. You have to say I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE. Keep yelling it, don’t stop.  I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE.  Go to your computers, login to your accounts, go to the message board and post: I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!

I think my SIP digipak is worth about $60 so I'll pass.....

Just toss it out the window, have a few good yells, and then bring it back inside.

A compromise.

I'll play it, yell outside....and toss my lunch!

We're having an electrical storm tonight.  Howling winds and rain in sheets.

Best not taking a chance of damaging my last Digi-pack copy.

Funny, Howard, Now: jump!  :police:

I greatly fear someone has watched the movie Network one too many times.

I've never owned SIP, listened to it once and said "no way" - so I took my home burnt CD of illegally downloaded "Mike Love Not War" opened my front door to cyclonic winds, driving rain and 25 foot plus swell and cast that wretched disc to the horizon and I screamed, I yelled, I screamed louder, I cajoled but that freakin' disc flew straight back in the door ... I feel defeated, subjugated by the Kokomaoists, I'm a cork on the ocean, floating over the raging sea, how long will this cyclone blow, how long will this cyclone blow .... I lost my way ...

Mine only cost $10 and the neighbours horrible ginger cat is crapping in my garden, so I just might do it...

I've avoided the board for a few days because I couldn't stand all that hate and insults anymore, now I come back and what do I find`? Another fundamentalist hate preacher with more insults. And I'm off again. Bye! :'(

With this level of anger and hatred coming from the OP, i'm guessing "howard beale" is American.

But 2 posts? Which other monikers does "howard beale" post under?

I don't know. His other post so far is a very timely and well-written introductory post in the "Welcome to the SS board" thread. In it, he lets the world know that he is a troll. Great stuff.

That is so funny.

That was already pretty obvious given the name and photograph, though.

I do find it amazing that such beautiful, peaceful music (no, I'm not talking about SIP) can inspire so much hate, venom, and anger. 

And I used to think that David Lee Roth v Sammy Hagar got people whipped into a frenzy.  Doesn't hold a candle to Mike Love v Brian Wilson. 

I'm going on record as saying that I'm not really on either side of the fence. 

I have tickets to see Brian Wilson in June, with Al and Blondie.  I'm a big fan of No Pier Pressure, and I can't wait to see Love and Mercy. 

I also have tickets to see The Mike and Bruce Beach Boys in August, and I'm looking forward to an afternoon (yep, it's an afternoon concert) of surf, beach, and car songs. 

I will agree with the OP that the name Beach Boys should be somehow amended.  There are countless examples in music of fractured groups ie. Joey Molland's Badfinger, Jack Russell's Great White, Herman's Hermits featuring Peter Noone.  I think that after the final show of the C50 Tour, Mike and Bruce should've made a similar amendment to the name.  With the size of venues they play, The Beach Boys featuring Mike Love & Bruce Johnston would sell just as many tickets. 

And if John Stamos follows through with that All Summer Long movie, I will avoid it like the plague just as I avoided Rock of Ages. 

At the risk of being exiled into the Vibe Room, I just don't see why music fans have to pick sides. 

I don't usually come out of the woodwork to post here, but I feel the need to say something about this ridiculously hate-filled original post. Talk about an agenda. I'm certainly not anti-Brian Wilson. In fact, he is my all time musical hero. But speaking as a professional recording engineer, those who have correctly observed the heavy use of tuning software (be it Autotune or Melodyne) on the Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas productions of recent years are not pushing a political agenda. They are accurately using their ears and observing a simple sonic fact. Whether or not you like it, heavy tuning went into the making of these records. To dispute that claim only reveals your unsophisticated listening abilities and lack of knowledge about contemporary recording technology. Okay, I'm out.

And if whether or not you like some manicured studio crap he put out at the age of 72 determines whether or not you're a true Brian Wilson fan, well that's ridiculous.

You're onto something here.  At least the songs themselves are good.   

Superb.  :h5 :thumbsup :woot :bow :happydance :love

Not mad so much as bored.

Go back in your hole.

Howard-DLTBGYD   :wave

Nah, he used the term "wanker" so he's obviously from the UK.

Post is too long and ranting.  what is so different here to warrant this?

What an all encompassing self-indignant statement oh wise one! But far be it from me to disagree - after all you're a recording engineer.

Oddly enough, your recording of Hop, Skip & Jump sounds like it was recorded at the bottom of a trash can. But I don't know anything. I've just recorded with Guided by Voices, Cobra Verde, Death of Samantha and many more.

Heaven forbid if a 72 year old man wants to make a contemporary sounding record that sounds with the times (as opposed to a lo-fi exercise for PBR swilling hipsters).

Ok, leaving out your hilariously unwarranted personal attack against a recording I did in my bedroom when I was still a teenager , and leaving out the debate over the quality of NPP which i did not address in my post - is it seriously your professional opinion that there isn't readily audible pitch correction artifacting all over these records? I am sick of posters with perfectly functional ears getting bullied for using them.

Your words, not mine. Look...there's no litmus test here, there's no secret handshake, there's no group think going on. Obviously the record sounds clean and polished (ie: compression, occasional pitch correction), but the overall result is a solid testament that ranks amongst his best solo stuff. My opinion, not yours...but calling it 'manicured studio crap' is just agenda driven. Yeah, the A-word. AGENDA.

I dig NPP. Total ear-worm, man. Total ear-worm. Like it a lot.

Thanks Howard. Not gonna take it anymore, indeed.

 :beer :beer
Please no more of the 'a' word; my doctor tells me I have the liver of a 70 year old (or Dennis Wilson).

Count me in as someone who is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore.

Some of you guys expect Brian to be absolutely perfect. You expect him to wave his hands and and see Pet Sounds part II dropped on your laps. If it's not Pet Sounds part II you end up picking apart every little thing like vultures on roadkill. And/or, you're in the camp who can't say one good thing about the man - who calls Brian's management "handlers". One of you said he is controlled by prescription medication (Oh wait, that was Mike Love). Another person said Joe should commit suicide - and this person also said Joe was worse than Landy (and I'll keep bringing this example up as long as people keep denying an agenda). One of you claimed Brian has no chance of getting on the radio anymore. Some of you say his songwriting is subpar anymore. One of you guys were decrying autotune before you even heard the song!...(whoops, that was Mike Love again). Another person claimed Brian doesn't have it in him to write great songs anymore. One of you recently took a passive aggressive swipe at Brian's current singing voice (oh, that's Mike Love yet again....whatever happened to Mr. Positivity, Mike?).

Yeah, there's no agenda going on. Just individual opinions and constructive criticism from people who truly love Brian Wilson and his music....for those who are too sensitive to hear words like "agenda", keep believing this. For me, this has nothing to do with people disliking the album, or hearing pitch correction, or disliking the production. Hell, there are things I don't like about the album and have made them known. This has to do with the bullshit that has been going on here for far too long - this constant negativity regarding nearly everything in Brian's solo career from certain posters. It's just monotonous and tiresome.

:beer :beer :beer

I'm starting to like this "agenda" :beer game ;D

:drunks

The one thing I'll say about that is that saying Brian's new music has no chance of getting on the radio is more of a knock at the radio, not at Brian Wilson. 

Modern FM radio is pretty pathetic here in 2015.  Very few legacy artists can sneak a new song onto a playlist.  Even with the help of a Top 40 voice like Nate Reuss. 

Some freeform or college radio stations might give it a spin.  But corporations control most of the airwaves. 

But, Brian made it to #14 on the album charts without the benefit of radio airplay.  That speaks to the loyalty of his fans.  And to the fact that, over 50 years later, the man is still putting out a quality product. 

Will we ever get another Today, Pet Sounds, or Sunflower?  Who cares?  If we get another That Lucky Old Sun or No Pier Pressure, I'll be happy.   

I don't post on every thread (far from it) but I definitely support Free Speech. One should be allowed to voice their opinions as long as it's within the board's boundaries. I believe a lot of posters here post within the rules and boundaries. The unfortunate part is when opinions, albeit negative, are poo-poo'd and ridiculed and squelched. Now THAT is the real problem here, don'tcha think?? So much for objectivity and subjectivity and constructive criticism.

Now. I've read this a few times about some people who consistently post negative stuff here about Brian and his music and career. I would LOVE to see these people listed (yes, names) that repeatedly post negatively about Brian. I just don't see it here. I'd really like to see this list of names that they are talking about!!

Am I the only one that thinks the OP was being completely satirical?

It's a good thing that I am on smileysmile.net, and not smileysmile.com. I certainly don't want to be bias! And considering all of the anti Mike Love boards around, it amazes me that anyone would come here and complain because it isn't purely anti Mike. And from what I can tell, the mods deal with people that are insulting to others. I don't think anyone gets banned because of their opinion about the music or ones distaste for actions, philosophies, polotics of a Beach Boy. It's when there are personal attacks that the mods react. Which helps keep this a functioning board.

Great post!

Two.

Three

Four (can I have a little more?).

(http://i.imgur.com/AS9pt6O.jpg)

Nice!

Someone has lots of spare time on their hands it seems...

When I was in high school, a friend and I would argue about which of us was a bigger fan of the Beach Boys. For example, he claimed that I wasn't a "true fan" because I didn't remember ever hearing "The Little Girl I Once Knew" on the radio.

The thing is, we knew it was a silly discussion. We were both very big fans, so arguing about who was the bigger fan was just a way to mess with each other and have some fun.

At this point, I don't even know what it means to be a "true Brian Wilson fan". Does it mean that you're a "real fanatic", to the point that you love everything he's ever done?  Or does it merely mean that you have a deep and abiding appreciation of most of his work? Whatever it means, the question whether anyone is a true fan or not isn't worth arguing about.

Nevertheless, I think there's something odd about calling NPP "a manicured piece of crap" while implying that you're a "true Brian Wilson" fan. The only way I can make sense of those two propositions is to assume that the speaker believes NPP is remarkably uncharacteristic of Brian's work. If Brian Wilson is your musical hero, you can say that NPP completely sucks so long as you don't think NPP is representative of what Brian Wilson does.

For example, maybe you think Brian's solo albums have been mostly lame, but you love what he did in the 60s or 70s. In that case, it would make more sense to say you're a big fan of Brian's early work instead of saying you're a big fan, period. Or maybe you love Brian's early work and most of his solo albums, but hate everything he's done with Joe Thomas -- thereby implying that Imagination and NPP are aberrations in Brian's otherwise excellent career.

The question I'm left with, however, is why people think NPP is such an aberration. Putting aside BWPS as a special case, does NPP really sound so different from the albums Brian has been making for the past 27 years, i.e. since Brian Wilson was released? My ears are old and unsophisticated, but I don't hear a very big difference, certainly not a difference that puts it in the "crap" category.

Unfortunately, how NPP sounds to each of us isn't something we can share. We could have observed how the album was produced, but we can't observe or perceive what other people hear. (Which in this case is lucky for me, because I love how NPP sounds, with one or two minor exceptions.)

Larry,

Personally, I think NPP stands up well with the rest of Brian's solo catalog. 

I also think it stands up very well with his material over the last ten years, particularly That Lucky Old Sun and The Beach Boys TWGMTR. 

I think comparing his solo material with the golden age of The Beach Boys is extremely unfair.  But, fans of classic artists sometimes have a tendency to do that. 

I remember when The Who released Endless Wire in 2006, their first album since 1982.  Personally, I thought it was their best album since Quadrophenia.  But I remember talking with a fellow Who fan who was disappointed because there was nothing on it like Won't Get Fooled Again. 

Same situation here.  It's impossible to compare music made by artists so many years apart. 

It's fine to compare music made by an artist in different eras (which I don't think you're denying), so long as we don't insist that the new stuff be like the old stuff. I'm sure some of the lukewarm or poor NPP reviews resulted from Brian being held to a higher standard than most other artists (the ones who aren't considered icons of 20th century popular music).

Anyway, I love the early Who, never really warmed up to Tommy or Live at Leeds, and never listen to anything after that. So I'm a true fan of the early Who.  :)

I think in the spirit of Good Vibrations, Mike should incorporate that image into UK shows as a little thank you to this fine community and it's if nothing else, comprehensively bearded Sith master. Then he should poach falsettos from three more bands and form poached falsetto Voltron, which will help make Endless Summer possible in sweet syncopated harmony.  

Other than that, hey "Network" kinda came true didn't it?

Most excellent in what this "says".

Howard, I am mad as hell! (Network is a great movie)

I like a good Network reference as much as the next person but this was pretty weak.

YOU WILL ATONE!

Well Howard, that was a wonderful experience.  When I yelled out the window I scared off some of those geese who've been crapping on my deck lately.  It was a dual-purpose catharsis, as it turns out.

Poach falsettos? I'm imaging the Lovester in an Elmer Fudd costume sitting out in the marsh.....


Let's be serious for a moment: Did Mike run onto Brian's tour bus and snatch Foskett and Eichenberg in the middle of the night? NO. I doubt anyone exactly twisted their arm either.....

I was under the impression that Eichenberg with never a full member of Brian's band, but just filling in for Matt Jardine due to some scheduling conflict. 

That was sort of the vibe I got as well, but our friends here are referring to this activity otherwise...

So why the statement on the FF website that he was leaving then to concentrate full-time on the BWB ?

Maybe he, or the FF, were under the impression that he was joining Brian's band full time. 

Communication in the music industry is a lost art. 

I think the abrupt and pointed nature of Brian announcing Matt's return ("effective immediately"), all within a few days/weeks of Ike appearing on Kimmel and then Matt (and not Ike) appearing on Conan, and then soon after the announcement that Ike has joined Mike's band, would tend to suggest the possibility that all parties involved did not simply depart their respective positions as planned, with no specific future plan, and then just coincidentally, organically landed in their respective new bands.

I don't know if "poaching" is always the best term to use, as I think there is room for scenarios with some of these band moves in the last couple years where the procurement of a new band member can be a rather overt statement in terms of BB-politics even if the person is question was not literally or directly "stolen" or "lured" away from the other band. There are a lot of grey areas all up in there.

Am I the only one who thinks that one day there's going to be a really interesting book written about the Beach Boys post Carl Wilson history? 

Loads of stories there:

David Marks in and out of the group
Brian's reemergence as a solo artist
Al's attempt at a Beach Boys Friends & Family Group
Brian touring Pet Sounds
The American Family Movie
Mike and Bruce's Beach Boys
Brian resurrecting Smile
GIOMH, What I Really Want for Xmas, TLOS, BWRG, Disney
Beach Boys reunion album & tour
The Jeff Beck Tour
The failed Jeff Beck album
Foskett leaving Brian's band for Mike's
Al being asked by Live Nation to play with The Beach Boys for a one off
No Pier Pressure
Love and Mercy
Brian Eichenberg

I'd buy a copy of that right this second! Peter Carlin, where are you?

I agree. Unfortunately, there’s an apparent mixture of a lack of interest in it and a lot of sensitivity on the subject. I started a thread awhile back about a 1998 or 99 article that mentioned Mike “refused to appear” on stage with Carl, and honestly was just trying to get to the bottom of that, and the thread started a bit s***storm of “anti-Mike” accusations and the like. I’m still glad I started that thread, because Ray Lawlor was able to clarify what had happened and that Mike had sent a letter out in 1997 regarding Carl.

As for the lack of interest, I remember asking Peter Carlin on this board about some stuff on this topic that was mentioned in his book. He can feel free to chime in if he still posts here, but I recall when asking about the book’s mention of an attempt to oust Al from the band as early as *1990*, Carlin just mentioned he had seen some sort of paperwork that mentioned this, but he didn’t seem particularly interested in this to dig deeper.

I remember reading, it might've been in Andrew's Complete Guide to the Music of....... book, that Al was asked to leave during the recording of Summer in Paradise due to an "attitude problem." 

But he was reinstated prior to the release of the album and the tour that followed. 

This is why I'd love to get an autobiography from Al too. 

So messed up. Because of course Mr. Positivity could never, ever be accused at any point of having an attitude problem himself, right?

I think being asked to play on some of the dreck on SIP would give anyone an attitude problem.

I have thought for some time that an amazing biography could (and should) be written about Brian's life. The group, too. I'm reading Lewisohn's "Tune In" about the Beatles and am overcome with envy. The granular detail is so impressive.

I worry that so many folks from the group's prime (like Jack R.) are fading away, and those involved more recently are unwilling to speak on the record. Put simply, someone should be interviewing all these folks, in detail and in depth, and promising to keep the material sealed for a certain number of years. Imagine what we could learn about the last few years!

"Nobody owns the pleasure of tones...that belongs to the guy with no ears."

--Frank Black

Music is a subjective experience and should be enjoyed as such.  An honest interested discussion about the music should in no way detract from one's personal enjoyment of it.  If people hear things you don't, well, it's been that way since the beginning of time.  That's how it is 'sposed to be.  Vive la difference.

There's nothing wrong with a spirited discussion.  Getting emotionally invested in the outcome to the point that you believe others have an agenda when you're just contributing your two or three cents -- well, that seems to kind of run counter to the spirit of a message board.  But, people with strong attachments do tend to inform that meaning into whatever they read, regardless of what the writer's intent was. 

At the end of the day, if something like posting on a message board is fun to do and strengthens connections with like-minded others, people will participate.  And if it doesn't, they won't. 

Imagine getting the dirt on the (imaginary) Al Jardine blackjack and hookers incident on the C50. ;)

Mike enlarged on said problem in an interview in Goldmine, and the resolution thereof. As I recall, Alan's general negativity was annoying everyone so he was "suspended".

It was Al's only escape from the freakshow that was the 1990s BBs under Mike Love's dictatorship. If my band went from pet sounds/smile to cheerleaders, the wipeout rap, stamos, and general ML cheese, I would be negative as hell.

My point being, it happened because political circumstances allowed that it could happen. I'm guessing that Mike was the person pushing for Al's suspension, though maybe I'm wrong about that. But I sincerely doubt that at various points throughout the band's career (ie. C50, but other times too), that Mike himself wouldn't have at any point be thought of having an attitude problem himself (by other band members) - maybe not the same "type" of attitude problem - but the politics have allowed him to not be "suspended" himself. Mike suspends others for not agreeing with his agenda, but has maneuvered to never run the risk of getting suspended himself (and yes, I know that BRI can be blamed for that situation of power to transpire). It just seems hypocritical from the outside - but hey, what do I know (and I honestly say that in all sincerity).

I have no further knowledge of the details, but given the prevailing BRI setup, it had to be a majority decision. Anyone know better/different, please chime in.

Exactly. I can only imagine how much Al wanted/needed to vent at that time. I can only imagine how much unjust crap and unfair treatment (compared to the Wilsons and Love) Al has endured over the years. Compare how Carl (because he was a Wilson) was fortunately allowed to leave the band in 1981 and put his foot down about the band going to sh*t, but when Al couldn't take the band sinking to new lows, and dared to speak his mind in some way, he got pushed out and essentially beaten down into submission. Al really must feel like a second-class citizen in BB world.

You're probably right, but I have to guess that by that point, Carl was done fighting in general, and any majority voters were probably afraid to rock to money-making boat too much. To stick up for Al would have been to get into a long, icky fight, and this was concurrent with surely one of the hardest times in Carl's life -trying to get Brian free of Landy. Regardless of which way he voted, I have sincere doubts that Carl would have been much more thrilled than Al was with the direction the BBs were taking in the early 90s. Does anyone really think the majority vote (beyond Mike's vote) had much to do with anything besides giving in due to fear of boat-rocking?

I think there was only 1 BB who was actually enthusiastic about that direction. It seems that Mike's power plays (early 90s w/ Al, late 90s again with Al after Carl's passing) came during a time of emotional turmoil within the BB universe, where all parties involved in the decision making process may not have been thinking with optimal clear-headedness.

Don't forget Bruce since he was the architect of the love-Melcher axis that drove the BBs in kokomo and beyond cheese territory. I think Mike was really excited about this new direction since he made SIP and put the creepfest known as "summer of love" on baywatch.   

As pertains to the “Summer in Paradise” era where Al was “suspended”; my guess is that he probably wasn’t suspended in any official sense. They were doing the SIP sessions all in-house on their own dime, and I would guess they just suggested or told Al not to come to the sessions. The sessions seemed to be very much a Love/Melcher production anyway, so I sense some of the other BB’s like Carl weren’t always there either.

If Al had been “suspended” from the group itself, he would have missed some vast run of shows during that time period, and there’s no evidence he missed any large run of shows.

That “Goldmine” interview Mike gave at that time is one of the only information sources on this time period that we have. I’ve always been amused at that interview though. At one point, he talks about how they did some group therapy sessions to air some of their grievances. Sounds like a fair enough idea. But I remember thinking it was weird that Mike used one of his own friends as the therapist. If I had been Al (or Carl), I might have been off-put by the potential for a lack of objectivity.

While I think it would be an excellent idea for these guys to have attended proper therapy sessions together, that's ridiculous if the therapist was a friend and not objective. There's an old episode of the TV show Dallas, where JR Ewing does a similar thing for a marriage therapist that he and his wife attend; JR is paying off the therapist to manipulate his advice. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall during the BB therapy sessions. Too bad we don't have a movie about the sessions, like Metallica's Some Kind of Monster.