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FatherOfTheMan Sr101
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« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2015, 08:28:34 PM »

Okay, I never questioned their work ethic, like it or not they are criminals for illegally being in this nation. It's not about the people themselves, it's about the principal. This is a massive national security risk. Tell me, how can we make sure that these people unknowingly entering are one of the heroes or villains? How do we stop the children (sometimes 6+) from growing into thugs due to extreme poverty?
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« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2015, 09:14:02 PM »

Tell me, how can we make sure that these people unknowingly entering are one of the heroes or villains?
How can we know that about the people that are legally entering the United States?

How do we stop the children (sometimes 6+) from growing into thugs due to extreme poverty?
What about all the children of legitimate US citizens that grow up into criminals?


These are philosophical questions that I assure you Donald Trump does not have the answers to.
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« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2015, 10:21:55 PM »

We background check and test the adults, and schools exist to teach children and prevent them as well as they can from being on the street.

We're not trying to eliminate crime because that is obviously impossible, we're trying to lower the numbers.
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« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2015, 10:30:03 PM »

Once you've lost a good friend to a background check, your perspective on these things changes. Preaching that adults should be tested is different from reality that you are shipping people away of their lives, their homes, families and friends.
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« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2015, 10:31:45 PM »

These people work harder at more difficult jobs than you ever will. If you think otherwise, you're a fool. The only people that give a them bad name are people like you.

Agree so much with this.
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« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2015, 05:12:53 AM »

These people work harder at more difficult jobs than you ever will. If you think otherwise, you're a fool. The only people that give a them bad name are people like you.

Agree so much with this.
This is not the point. When a person comes from a foreign border, they are "admitted" (or not) and "inspected." That means, in the matter of the US, you know if someone has a communicable disease.  It is the reason we had places like Ellis Island (where Fiorello Laguardia worked) so people could be quarantined for, say two weeks, to verify their health status.  Think Ebola or other illness that can come into a country with air flights.  

Members of my family came into the US that way.  The legit way. On a ship, with a listing on a manifest, and an accounting process. They worked harder than ever I had to, but that it why they came; to get their foot in the door, of the US, and then make life better for their children and grandchildren.  They learned the English language and educated their kids. They "paid the price" of admission, and were barely out of their teens.

The visa program for "visitors" with about 25 countries skips that step. Then we have "overstays" where people who had a grant of admission for say 90 days stay here, to "visit." That is a lot of people.  And now we have those crossing the border, illegally who have not had their health verified to protect the real citizens or long term residents.  The difference is that they are "inspected" in their countries, who have immunizations and other health safeguards. We now have diseases such as a form of the polio virus, that likely came into this country with someone whose health status was not verified.  

It isn't about what work people will or won't do. My ancestors did what they had to do for jobs, just like those illegal entrants, after they were "admitted and inspected."  It is a widely held position.  Get in legitimately, and you are welcomed.  There are plenty of ways to get in, for religious reasons or for political retaliation fears, or other physically abusive situations.  

Can US citizens get into any country, by crossing a border, without a process? No we can't. There is no "reciprocity" for us.  It isn't about a lack of compassion.  We do more than most countries.  It is also about protecting the citizens.  
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« Reply #131 on: July 17, 2015, 07:07:19 AM »

As long as there is a welfare state in the U.S., immigration should be restricted. I know it goes against my libertarian-leaning beliefs, but you can't have open borders and a welfare state. Americans want a welfare state but they also want open borders. No. It doesn't work that way. I wouldn't be against open borders if the welfare state didn't exist.

And let's not kid ourselves, people. You can sing Kumbaya in the grass with your bongos and think about all of the great things you hallucinate it may bring, but third-world immigration has not been a net boon for Western civilization. Look what it's doing to Europe, Russia, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Those areas have all pursued policies of multiculturalism (as does the U.S.) and the people who actually produce in those societies are being decried as "racist" for speaking out against the garbage infesting their countries - people who don't work and contribute nothing to society except for radical, religious hatred. All cultures are not equal. This is not to say that all third-world immigration to Western society has been bad; some can find it in themselves to assimilate like other waves of immigrants in the past (Italians, Irish, and Polish for example).

But this is a conversation that needs to be had. Trump is a complete buffoon; there's at least some grain of truth in what he says.
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« Reply #132 on: July 17, 2015, 07:08:14 AM »

These people work harder at more difficult jobs than you ever will. If you think otherwise, you're a fool. The only people that give a them bad name are people like you.

Agree so much with this.
This is not the point. When a person comes from a foreign border, they are "admitted" (or not) and "inspected." That means, in the matter of the US, you know if someone has a communicable disease.  It is the reason we had places like Ellis Island (where Fiorello Laguardia worked) so people could be quarantined for, say two weeks, to verify their health status.  Think Ebola or other illness that can come into a country with air flights.  

Members of my family came into the US that way.  The legit way. On a ship, with a listing on a manifest, and an accounting process. They worked harder than ever I had to, but that it why they came; to get their foot in the door, of the US, and then make life better for their children and grandchildren.  They learned the English language and educated their kids. They "paid the price" of admission, and were barely out of their teens.

The visa program for "visitors" with about 25 countries skips that step. Then we have "overstays" where people who had a grant of admission for say 90 days stay here, to "visit." That is a lot of people.  And now we have those crossing the border, illegally who have not had their health verified to protect the real citizens or long term residents.  The difference is that they are "inspected" in their countries, who have immunizations and other health safeguards. We now have diseases such as a form of the polio virus, that likely came into this country with someone whose health status was not verified.  

It isn't about what work people will or won't do. My ancestors did what they had to do for jobs, just like those illegal entrants, after they were "admitted and inspected."  It is a widely held position.  Get in legitimately, and you are welcomed.  There are plenty of ways to get in, for religious reasons or for political retaliation fears, or other physically abusive situations.  

Can US citizens get into any country, by crossing a border, without a process? No we can't. There is no "reciprocity" for us.  It isn't about a lack of compassion.  We do more than most countries.  It is also about protecting the citizens.  

+1

I'm curious.  For the morons that seem to think open borders are a good thing, I'm wondering if said morons also leave the doors to their homes and automobiles unlocked.
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« Reply #133 on: July 17, 2015, 07:37:54 AM »

This "debate" (laugh) on pro-illegal immigration is so stupid that it literally hurts my head.  It's like punching myself in the face.  I have to punch myself in the face to get my intelligence level numbed down to the point where it needs to be to understand the ridiculous, factually flagrant, odoriferous mouth farts being passed off as informed opinion.

Just to summarize, we got...

We're all illegal aliens.
They work harder than us.
We give them a bad name.
We're fools.
We have criminals too.


Well that's some convincing stuff, I gotta admit.  But try this... being pro-illegal immigration is actually being pro-anti-immigration.  Or just anti-immigration.  By definition.  It's not immigration that you're for.  You can't be pro-illegal something and then be PRO-that same something.

There's no way to intelligently defend this infatuation with illegal-immigration.  Just like Planned Murderhood can't defend murdering babies and harvesting their body parts for profit, while claiming they're saving lives.  There really isn't a way to intelligently persuade and defend this stuff.

But by all means, proceed.  But, remember, intellect is checked at the door, in order for you to proceed with the brain clubbing sob stories and attacking people who call ya'll out.  Like a chimpanzee flinging feces at another threatening male -- you've got your hands full.

And if you've read this far, fling faster.
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« Reply #134 on: July 17, 2015, 09:15:05 AM »

it literally hurts my head

Well, at least something positive came out of all of this.
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« Reply #135 on: July 17, 2015, 09:38:30 AM »

Donald Trump is for Donald Trump. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #136 on: July 17, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »

Thank you everyone, I appreciate being called a moron and being lectured to like I'm a child. Are you guys always like this, or is it just when someone has a different opinion than you do? Jeez.

For the record, I don't endorse illegal immigration. However, the situation is different than what Donald Trump would have you believe. That is all.
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« Reply #137 on: July 17, 2015, 09:54:27 AM »

Waves, I agree with you! Smiley
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« Reply #138 on: July 17, 2015, 09:54:42 AM »

Donald Trump is for Donald Trump. Roll Eyes
With this I agree, but, he is articulating stuff that is not politically correct and inconvenient for a lot of mainstream party people ( in both major parties) don't want to hear.  His candor is refreshing, even if his personality is brash and abrasive.  Campaigning in the public eye, will knock that right out of him.  

He is getting a lot of stuff out into the open that has been dysfunctional for the last ten years at least going back to GWB.  This did not happen overnight.  He does have global ties and insights that career politicians might not have.  Donald sure is making this interesting.  

And, I think he likes the Beach Boys...I guess he has good music taste

So, I'm going to hear him out...for now.  LOL
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« Reply #139 on: July 17, 2015, 10:00:07 AM »

Thank you everyone, I appreciate being called a moron and being lectured to like I'm a child. Are you guys always like this, or is it just when someone has a different opinion than you do? Jeez.

Oh quitcher poutin'.  

For the record, I don't endorse illegal immigration. However, the situation is different than what Donald Trump would have you believe. That is all.

Then congrats, you're not a moron.   3D  The problem with this whole Trump thing is that people would rather get their panties in a wad over Trump's arrogant crassness (like this is anything new for Trump) on the illegal immigration subject.  Are all immigrants sneaking into the U.S. illegally considered murderers and rapists?  No, of course not.  But enough of them are.  But honestly, this is neither here nor there.  If you enter another country illegally, you are already breaking said country's laws.  Doesn't matter how hard you work once you've snuck in; you've already failed the golden rule.  You want to move to a better country to improve your living condition?  Fine, you can start by respecting that country's laws and entering legally.  
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« Reply #140 on: July 17, 2015, 10:08:09 AM »

Waves, I agree with you! Smiley

Smile Brian - while this and other fora, are not driven by age requirements, you might keep in mind that your are at a table with "your elders" - and I don't mean that disrespectully but just as a word of context.   You are amidst many who have known this music from the ground up, some 55 years, in a context that a gen-x-er might find hard to grasp, if they just listen to the music in isolation, looking at structure, and more clinically in analysis.  

So think about people who are in their 70's, 60's and 50's in the room, when you post.  Few things make me more relieved in terms of this music that is so phenomenal than seeing young people embrace it.  That future of the music could have been in jeopardy for many reasons in the 60's and 70's.  

You aren't a kid, but try to imagine yourself with aunts, uncles, even grandparents, in the discussion...especially the "experts," whom you might like or not.  We're lucky.  And I feel lucky to have a forum that wasn't available back in the day!  Wink

And see M&B!  Don't worry about OSD...I don't think he bites!  LOL
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #141 on: July 17, 2015, 10:32:51 AM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.
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« Reply #142 on: July 17, 2015, 10:58:51 AM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.

13% of those who were given federal sentences in America in the year 2014 were illegal immigrants (that number goes up to 58% if you count immigration violations). Of that 13% were charges of drug trafficking, kidnapping, money laundering, murder. I don't agree that they are all bad people, nor do I agree with Trump's words on the issue. But statistically they are not all a group of hardworking people - most of them probably are, but some of them are indeed not. They are people and shouldn't be treated like trash, but those people should try to adhere to the law.

That being said, I've read filledeplage's latest post twice now and I still have no idea what she is talking about. This probably isn't the best thread to post a lecture on the demographics of Smiley Smile...just sayin.
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« Reply #143 on: July 17, 2015, 01:51:38 PM »

These people work harder at more difficult jobs than you ever will. If you think otherwise, you're a fool. The only people that give a them bad name are people like you.

Agree so much with this.
This is not the point. When a person comes from a foreign border, they are "admitted" (or not) and "inspected." That means, in the matter of the US, you know if someone has a communicable disease.  It is the reason we had places like Ellis Island (where Fiorello Laguardia worked) so people could be quarantined for, say two weeks, to verify their health status.  Think Ebola or other illness that can come into a country with air flights.  

Members of my family came into the US that way.  The legit way. On a ship, with a listing on a manifest, and an accounting process. They worked harder than ever I had to, but that it why they came; to get their foot in the door, of the US, and then make life better for their children and grandchildren.  They learned the English language and educated their kids. They "paid the price" of admission, and were barely out of their teens.

The visa program for "visitors" with about 25 countries skips that step. Then we have "overstays" where people who had a grant of admission for say 90 days stay here, to "visit." That is a lot of people.  And now we have those crossing the border, illegally who have not had their health verified to protect the real citizens or long term residents.  The difference is that they are "inspected" in their countries, who have immunizations and other health safeguards. We now have diseases such as a form of the polio virus, that likely came into this country with someone whose health status was not verified.  

It isn't about what work people will or won't do. My ancestors did what they had to do for jobs, just like those illegal entrants, after they were "admitted and inspected."  It is a widely held position.  Get in legitimately, and you are welcomed.  There are plenty of ways to get in, for religious reasons or for political retaliation fears, or other physically abusive situations.  

Can US citizens get into any country, by crossing a border, without a process? No we can't. There is no "reciprocity" for us.  It isn't about a lack of compassion.  We do more than most countries.  It is also about protecting the citizens.  

Couldn't have said it better myself. No one WANTS to hold these people back; as in those who cannot for any reason enter legally... But it's completely possible to set restrictions to better the situations of everyone already living/working in the U.S.
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« Reply #144 on: July 17, 2015, 02:51:18 PM »

It is also beneficiary to all to set restrictions on immigration from the third-world. Fifth columns are not tolerated in those third-world shitholes; why are they tolerated in Western civilization?
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« Reply #145 on: July 17, 2015, 03:01:53 PM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.

13% of those who were given federal sentences in America in the year 2014 were illegal immigrants (that number goes up to 58% if you count immigration violations). Of that 13% were charges of drug trafficking, kidnapping, money laundering, murder. I don't agree that they are all bad people, nor do I agree with Trump's words on the issue. But statistically they are not all a group of hardworking people - most of them probably are, but some of them are indeed not. They are people and shouldn't be treated like trash, but those people should try to adhere to the law.

That being said, I've read filledeplage's latest post twice now and I still have no idea what she is talking about. This probably isn't the best thread to post a lecture on the demographics of Smiley Smile...just sayin.
rab - the demographics are stark. Just for example, if one became a BB fan during Glen Campbell's short tenure...you already "missed the Brian Wilson" touring window.  A couple of weeks ago before the Brian show, I ran into an old friend, whose kids went to high school with mine.  We talked about the L & M movie.  

As teens, we wondered, after having Pet Sounds and a Smiley or Party LP in the background at parties (on a record player) whether we would EVER see Brian Wilson.  All though high school, college, grad school and professional lives and families.  Most of our adult lives, until Brian had begun a solo career, after nearly everything, such as his both brothers (and parents) were gone did we see Brian Wilson.

 So now, when we see each other, (either at a BB or BW show) one of the first things we say, almost simultaneously is, "Can you believe we are seeing BRIAN WILSON?" We waited so long.  Those who are in their 20's or 30's and came to fandom, have a very different experience. They have seen Brian Wilson, and didn't have to wait decades.  (And maybe those fans are spoiled.    LOL )

Little disclaimer...I did see a "Landy cameo" in the late 80's, when he came out for a couple of songs during a BB show.  Now we know the background.  But this was nothing compared to seeing him during C50 or Pet Sounds, TLOS, Smile live, NPP, etc.  It is a very different context. Often that is not taken into any consideration.  Our experience is very different.  I think demographics are very important and there should be better understanding of that dynamic. JMHO  Wink
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 03:19:40 PM by filledeplage » Logged
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« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2015, 03:17:08 PM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.
This killer of the woman in CA, had five deportation (removal) hearings and deportations.  Most US citizens never see the inside of a police station or courthouse for a felony or even a misdemeanor in their whole life.

A felony by definition is a crime classification that is punishable by a prison term of one year or more, and matched to the crime committed. This was not a string of five misdemeanors, or petty crimes, but very serious crimes.

Since they instituted these "safe harbor cities" criminal illegal aliens could hang in one of those cities and escape deportation, with active arrest warrants for other crimes.  And I agree with Trump on this one.  Kicked out five time and comes back and kills a beautiful young woman.

Enough is enough.
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« Reply #147 on: July 17, 2015, 03:19:19 PM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.

13% of those who were given federal sentences in America in the year 2014 were illegal immigrants (that number goes up to 58% if you count immigration violations). Of that 13% were charges of drug trafficking, kidnapping, money laundering, murder. I don't agree that they are all bad people, nor do I agree with Trump's words on the issue. But statistically they are not all a group of hardworking people - most of them probably are, but some of them are indeed not. They are people and shouldn't be treated like trash, but those people should try to adhere to the law.

That being said, I've read filledeplage's latest post twice now and I still have no idea what she is talking about. This probably isn't the best thread to post a lecture on the demographics of Smiley Smile...just sayin.
rab - the demographics are stark. Just for example, if one became a BB fan during Glen Campbell's short tenure...you already "missed the Brian Wilson" touring window.  A couple of weeks ago before the Brian show, I ran into an old friend, whose kids went to high school with mine.  We talked about the L & M movie.  

As teens, we wondered, after having Pet Sounds and a Smiley or Party LP in the background at a parties (on a record player) whether we would EVER see Brian Wilson.  All though high school, college, grad school and professional lives and families.  Most of our adult lives, until Brian had begun a solo career, after nearly everything, such as his both brothers (and parents) were gone did we see Brian Wilson.

 So now, when we see each other, (either at a BB or BW show) one of the first things we say, almost simultaneously is, "Can you believe we are seeing BRIAN WILSON?" We waited so long.  Those who are in their 20's or 30's and came to fandom, have a very different experience. They have seen Brian Wilson, and didn't have to wait decades.  (And maybe those fans are spoiled.    LOL )

Little disclaimer...I did see a "Landy cameo" in the late 80's, when he came out for a couple of songs during a BB show.  Now we know the background.  But this was nothing compared to seeing him during C50 or Pet Sounds, TLOS, Smile live, NPP, etc.  It is a very different context. Often that is not taken into any consideration.  Our experience is very different.  I think demographics are very important and there should be better understanding of that dynamic. JMHO  Wink

oh good point i'm glad you posted that
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« Reply #148 on: July 17, 2015, 03:27:07 PM »

All I meant was I agree with Waves and see them as a hardworking group of people. Not some boogey men of rapists and murders like Donald Trump thinks.
This killer of the woman in CA, had five deportation (removal) hearings and deportations.  Most US citizens never see the inside of a police station or courthouse for a felony or even a misdemeanor in their whole life.

A felony by definition is a crime classification that punishable by a prison term of one year or more, and matched to the crime committed. This was not a string of five misdemeanors, or petty crimes, but very serious crimes.

Since they instituted these "safe harbor cities" criminal illegal aliens could hang in one of those cities and escape deportation, with active arrest warrants for other crimes.  And I agree with Trump on this one.  Kicked out five time and comes back and kills a beautiful young woman.

Enough is enough.


A very interesting "perspective" that often some would disclaim to be on "topic" with the rest of the board howveer without showing specifics on the "alignment" so to speak of these aliens in regards to deportation, active warrants and other crimes, Trump's point in regards to your point, so to speak is almost enough by definition to make a point that only is available to some and not others  LOL
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« Reply #149 on: July 17, 2015, 03:38:47 PM »

But I am a white person and there are scum-bag killers the same skin color as me. Point is every group of people has its bad apples that break laws and harm people.
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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