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No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
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Author
Topic: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews) (Read 119532 times)
joshferrell
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Posts: 1634
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #325 on:
April 07, 2015, 11:37:56 PM »
This Beautiful Day- Sounds like a song that may have been from the TWGMTR suite, very similar to it..very pretty, but short, the ending reminds me of the ending to "Endless Harmony".
Runaway Dancer- Wow what a catchy song! Reminds me of Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" from the 70's, with it's thick bass line and saxophone, the synths sound 80's, kind of reminds me of "Crack at your Love" in some parts. This one also has a "Love You" vibe with some of the synths..I have a feeling that "Love You" people will either love this one or hate it..
Whatever Happened- Very Pretty song, nice 60's muted bass sound, reminds me of "The Associations" or a band like that....the production sounds like it would have fitted right on Imagination...this on is also one of the most "Brian" sounding songs on here..
On the Island- Nice Bossa Nova sound similar to "Busy Doing Nothing"..also kind of reminds me of "South America" as far as the production goes..
Half Moon Bay- very beautiful "Smooth Jazz" type song, this is basically a cousin to "Let's go away for a while" and "Diamond Head"..
Our Special Love-interesting song because it's so different from any other song he has ever done, basically doesn't really sound like a song he would have written, even though there are beautiful harmony's and Chord changes. May be a great song for the younger crowd, kind of a boys 2 men sound to it. it's not bad but it's not great other..
The Right Time- a decent song that sounds like it could have been on TWGMTR, a rewrite of "Lay Down Burden" more or less..
Guess you had to be there- Cotton-fields and Cabin-Essence meets the Dixie Chicks, is the best way I would describe it,,
Don't worry- very classic sounding Brian but it borrows some of the melody from "Jan and Dean's" "Easy as 1-2-3-" and it has a 70's "Our Day will come" Frankie Vallie feel/sound to it ..
Somewhere Quiet- a rewrite of "Summer means new Love" a beautiful song in it's own write, too bad the production of this version isn't nearly as amazing as the original..but it's fun.
I'm feeling sad- a very upbeat "sad song" ,almost sarcastic, but a very pretty song, reminds me of "Kiss me Baby" in parts...also reminds me of Herman's Hermits for some reason.
Tell me why- very pretty, Dark song..
sail away- obviously influenced by Sloop John B... not a bad song though, also reminds me of "Somewhere Near Japan."
one kind of Love- another pretty song (the pretty songs seem to outshine the fast songs on this one for some reason) also reminds me Gershwin..this one has one of the better Productions to it compared to the rest of the CD.
Saturday Night- Another "Dixie Chicks" type country song... not bad but not great either...basically a middle of the road country song..for some reason this reminds me of "Ready to run".. by the Dixie Chicks...
The Last song- I don't know about this one, it's pretty in some ways no doubt about it, but it seems to have a disturbing "Let's get Brian to record a goodbye song because he's getting older and we don't know how long he's going to be here with us" type of vibe to it and maybe that's why a lot of fans seem to be uncomfortable by this one and giving it low scores ..
In the back of my mind-very pretty, different lyrics from the original version, just him and the piano..it's very obvious from his voice that he was going through a lot of stuff at that time, he still has a falsetto but he's starting to get a gruffy sounding voice,,
Love and Mercy-the version that had "walking down the path of life" added to it..but edited down...
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Larry Franz
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Posts: 160
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #326 on:
April 07, 2015, 11:39:56 PM »
Quote from: Micha on April 07, 2015, 09:38:16 PM
Quote from: Larry Franz on April 07, 2015, 12:48:28 PM
Even all those la-la-la's make sense now.
Please explain how they make sense, as I don't get it.
Well, going back to what I wrote earlier:
Quote from: Larry Franz on April 07, 2015, 12:48:28 PM
I'm listening to [NPP] in the context of the Beach Boys' recent history, so I might be attributing more coherence to the album than it deserves, but there are a lot of lyrics addressed to "you" that sound like they're directed to the Beach Boys. Listening to it that way makes it seem more like a concept album than a bunch of unrelated songs. Even all those la-la-la's make sense now.
Here's what I wrote on Brian's board about the la-la-la's: "They seemed rather unsophisticated when I listened to the song by itself, but now it sounds like a simple yet clever reference to all those vocals the Beach Boys sang over the years, using the fundamental "la-la-la" that we all know in order to represent all the rest."
That's my interpretation, of course, and I don't know if Brian is actually singing about his relationship with the Beach Boys in many of these songs. But hearing the songs that way instead of as a bunch of songs about romantic relationships makes the album more meaningful for me.
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Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into. (It became fine later on.)
Wirestone
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Posts: 6047
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #327 on:
April 07, 2015, 11:44:23 PM »
Quote from: Larry Franz on April 07, 2015, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: Micha on April 07, 2015, 09:38:16 PM
Quote from: Larry Franz on April 07, 2015, 12:48:28 PM
Even all those la-la-la's make sense now.
Please explain how they make sense, as I don't get it.
Well, going back to what I wrote earlier:
Quote from: Larry Franz on April 07, 2015, 12:48:28 PM
I'm listening to [NPP] in the context of the Beach Boys' recent history, so I might be attributing more coherence to the album than it deserves, but there are a lot of lyrics addressed to "you" that sound like they're directed to the Beach Boys. Listening to it that way makes it seem more like a concept album than a bunch of unrelated songs. Even all those la-la-la's make sense now.
Here's what I wrote on Brian's board about the la-la-la's: "They seemed rather unsophisticated when I listened to the song by itself, but now it sounds like a simple yet clever reference to all those vocals the Beach Boys sang over the years, using the fundamental "la-la-la" that we all know in order to represent all the rest."
That's my interpretation, of course, and I don't know if Brian is actually singing about his relationship with the Beach Boys in many of these songs. But hearing the songs that way instead of as a bunch of songs about romantic relationships makes the album more meaningful for me.
That's how I interpreted it. That is, that the legacy of the band isn't really the specific words they used, but the harmonies themselves.
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puni puni
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Posts: 885
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #328 on:
April 07, 2015, 11:50:36 PM »
Quote from: 18thofMay on April 07, 2015, 10:48:45 PM
...
There is definitely ottotune but its prominence varies between tracks. There's a lot of it on Whatever Happened and The Right Time. On Sail Away and Tell Me Why, not so much. The guest vocalists don't have ottotune as far as I remember.
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Mike's Beard
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Posts: 4265
Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #329 on:
April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM »
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
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I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Jaco
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Posts: 152
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #330 on:
April 08, 2015, 02:06:58 AM »
Isn't
Runaway Dancer
Brian's little tribute to the Doobie Brothers? (Remember
What A Fool Believes?
)
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Loaf
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Posts: 838
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #331 on:
April 08, 2015, 02:09:51 AM »
Our Special Love sounds like a Backstreet Boys song
The Right Time is growing on me. It should have been the lead track from TWGMTR.
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Dudd
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #332 on:
April 08, 2015, 05:03:22 AM »
Solid 3/5 from me. It doesn't quite have what I personally love about my favourite BW releases - that deep warmth and intimacy of things like
Pet Sounds
and
Friends
... it comes across as more of a commercially-minded album, and on those terms it's perfectly fine. I think "Runaway Dancer" works well for what it is, I agree that "Saturday Night" would make a smashing single, and (with the exception of the horrid synth horns) I love everything about "Don't Worry." It's a grower, I think, and certainly doesn't deserve the bashing it's been getting in the press.
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Quote from: Brian Wilson
It’s going to be the greatest tribute album ever made.
RubberSoul13
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Posts: 1297
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #333 on:
April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Logged
Fire Wind
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Posts: 299
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #334 on:
April 08, 2015, 07:33:27 AM »
We treating the deluxe version as the standard album? I wish they'd sequenced this differently. Bonus tracks are bonus tracks, no matter how good they are. Stick them on the end.
I wasn't expecting this to be an album of undisturbed greatness. Like many Beach Boys albums, it's imperfect, a mix of beauty and frustrations, and odd choices, as well as containing, along with TWGMTR, the spectre of an unrealised greater work. But I would expect it to contain at least one or two tracks that blow me away and are pure bliss to listen to and which make it all worthwhile. For me, that's Sail Away, immediately. But I like some of the others just fine. I expect a few others to grow on me a lot.
Last Song is okay. It lacks the classical restraint of Summer's Gone, or Midnight's Another Day. In those tracks, the emotion is there, resting in the structure of the songs and the harmonies. Last Song aims to kind of shove it at you.
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I still can taste the ocean breeze...
Niko
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Posts: 1617
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #335 on:
April 08, 2015, 07:46:53 AM »
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Why Kokomo? That's nonsense - there's no connection there.
The good, the bad...and the agenda.
Logged
Check out the awesome Beach Boys mixes a few of us made:
Symphony to God:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18190.0.html
Dumb Angels:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18326.0.html
Hawthorne Sunset:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22538.msg530237.html
Mike's Beard
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Offline
Posts: 4265
Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #336 on:
April 08, 2015, 08:08:55 AM »
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Sooooooo, how long before a certain baseball capped singer sues for a co-credit?
Logged
I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
coco1997
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Posts: 433
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #337 on:
April 08, 2015, 08:28:46 AM »
Quote from: Woodstock on April 08, 2015, 07:46:53 AM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Why Kokomo? That's nonsense - there's no connection there.
The good, the bad...and the agenda.
The only similarity I can hear is in those descending chords during the verse melodies.
Logged
"I've never been to Mars, but I imagine it's quite lovely."
RubberSoul13
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1297
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #338 on:
April 08, 2015, 08:37:25 AM »
Quote from: coco1997 on April 08, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 08, 2015, 07:46:53 AM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Why Kokomo? That's nonsense - there's no connection there.
The good, the bad...and the agenda.
The only similarity I can hear is in those descending chords during the verse melodies.
Melodic and harmonic similarities during the verse...that's what I was referring to.
This wasn't an attempt at some Mike v. Brian deal...it was just one of several examples on this album of Brian recycling Beach Boys material.
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Cristian Kiper
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 86
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #339 on:
April 08, 2015, 08:39:33 AM »
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
On The Island reminds me a bit of Little Saint Nick during the verses.
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guitarfool2002
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Posts: 10023
"Barba non facit aliam historici"
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #340 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:11:14 AM »
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
...it was just one of several examples on this album of Brian recycling Beach Boys material.
Really???
Here is the foundation of Western music for the past several hundred years:
In a "sharp" key:
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
In a "flat" key:
C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B
Those are the twelve individual notes or pitches that comprise all of what we'd call Western music. Whether named in sharps or flats, every chord and melody we hear comes solely from those twelve notes. All of the music we hear comes from those "ingredients".
As something of a musicologist, or historian, or whatever you'd call it, I could trace any number of songs to a previous melody or chord progression. I could pick something on a Beach Boys album and find a precedent on something written in the 1700's possibly as easily as something on a show tune from the 1920's as I could on a Bill Monroe record from the 40's. And on and on and on...
Point is, everyone who writes Western music uses the same ingredients. Just like everyone who writes or speaks the English language uses the same words available to every English speaking person, yet we can identify individuals by the way they write, the way they speak, and which words and phrases they choose to use.
To say Brian is "recycling" Beach Boys songs is, in my opinion, absurd. It becomes more absurd when it gets called out based on a descending chord progression that I could, on demand, find previous examples in any number of thousands of songs.
I just had a similar experience last night where a chord progression came up, and I used it based on what I call the "Hello Goodbye" progression. It's one of the things that simply works, that sounds good, and which writers can call on any time to deliver a hook that they know works and fits so many situations.
Did "All The Young Dudes" 'recycle' McCartney? Did McCartney recycle some Broadway tune from the 30's, or was it a Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven progression? How about Del Shannon's "Runaway"? Did Lennon/McCartney recycle it for "I'll Be Back", Arlo Guthrie with "Comin Into Los Angeles", Chicago with "25 or 6 to 4", Zeppelin with "Babe I'm Gonna leave You", etc?
Or is there a chorale that was heard in cathedrals throughout Europe in the late 1700's by an unknown writer that uses the same chord progression?
It's fun picking some stuff out like that, especially if you're into music history and lineage...but Kokomo?
Just be upfront about it, right? Recycling...no.
Or the next time a chef prepares a chicken noodle soup or something, and he/she puts their own twist on it by adding something unique, should they be accused of "recycling" a soup recipe that may have existed for how many hundred years yet everyone who makes it has an individual way of using the exact same ingredients everyone tthough history has used to create a chicken noodle soup.
Recycling? No way. There are only 12 notes to choose from when writing a song in the Western format...get a statistician to calculate how many unique combinations of those 12 notes could exist and consider what it is that makes individual songwriters immediately identifiable by their style.
And it can easily be traced well beyond the Beach Boys and a chord sequence on Kokomo if there is a genuine interest in tracing the history of Western music, versus anything subliminal or sounding like what some are seeing as a negative.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Mendota Heights
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Posts: 927
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #341 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:14:12 AM »
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
«
Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 09:15:49 AM by Hamstring Hero
»
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I have been dubbed Mr. Pet Sounds and Mr. Country Love by polite and honored board member Smile Brian. I hope I live up to those esteemed titles.
Autotune
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Posts: 1699
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #342 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:14:55 AM »
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
Quote from: coco1997 on April 08, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 08, 2015, 07:46:53 AM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 07:24:12 AM
Quote from: Mike's Beard on April 07, 2015, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Woodstock on April 07, 2015, 10:56:59 PM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 07, 2015, 03:14:24 PM
12. Tell Me Why: I love this! But don't try and tell me you can't smell the dash of "Kokomo" hidden inside this one.
Is that a joke? Because no, I can't smell Kokomo or anything Mike Love related inside this album.
The vocals on the verses have a very similar melody to the verses on Kokomo.
Thank you! Someone else on this board that isn't afraid to acknowledge the good, the bad, and the repetitive...
Why Kokomo? That's nonsense - there's no connection there.
The good, the bad...and the agenda.
The only similarity I can hear is in those descending chords during the verse melodies.
Melodic and harmonic similarities during the verse...that's what I was referring to.
This wasn't an attempt at some Mike v. Brian deal...it was just one of several examples on this album of Brian recycling Beach Boys material.
Recycling? It's just a distant similsrity. There's many of these, considering the enormous yet limited number of combinations in our tonal system. The chorus of Saturday Night reminds me of "Forever and Ever". And there's an intro to a song that sounds like a unison wordless break in Sunflower's Forever. And the intro to One Kind of Love has an octave leap on a horn that sounds like the the begining of You Still Believe in Me. The list is endless, and pointless.
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"His lyrical ability has never been touched by anyone, except for Mike Love."
-Brian Wilson on Van Dyke Parks (2015)
The Cincinnati Kid
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #343 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:18:44 AM »
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on April 08, 2015, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
...it was just one of several examples on this album of Brian recycling Beach Boys material.
Really???
Here is the foundation of Western music for the past several hundred years:
In a "sharp" key:
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
In a "flat" key:
C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B
Those are the twelve individual notes or pitches that comprise all of what we'd call Western music. Whether named in sharps or flats, every chord and melody we hear comes solely from those twelve notes. All of the music we hear comes from those "ingredients".
As something of a musicologist, or historian, or whatever you'd call it, I could trace any number of songs to a previous melody or chord progression. I could pick something on a Beach Boys album and find a precedent on something written in the 1700's possibly as easily as something on a show tune from the 1920's as I could on a Bill Monroe record from the 40's. And on and on and on...
Point is, everyone who writes Western music uses the same ingredients. Just like everyone who writes or speaks the English language uses the same words available to every English speaking person, yet we can identify individuals by the way they write, the way they speak, and which words and phrases they choose to use.
To say Brian is "recycling" Beach Boys songs is, in my opinion, absurd. It becomes more absurd when it gets called out based on a descending chord progression that I could, on demand, find previous examples in any number of thousands of songs.
I just had a similar experience last night where a chord progression came up, and I used it based on what I call the "Hello Goodbye" progression. It's one of the things that simply works, that sounds good, and which writers can call on any time to deliver a hook that they know works and fits so many situations.
Did "All The Young Dudes" 'recycle' McCartney? Did McCartney recycle some Broadway tune from the 30's, or was it a Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven progression? How about Del Shannon's "Runaway"? Did Lennon/McCartney recycle it for "I'll Be Back", Arlo Guthrie with "Comin Into Los Angeles", Chicago with "25 or 6 to 4", Zeppelin with "Babe I'm Gonna leave You", etc?
Or is there a chorale that was heard in cathedrals throughout Europe in the late 1700's by an unknown writer that uses the same chord progression?
It's fun picking some stuff out like that, especially if you're into music history and lineage...but Kokomo?
Just be upfront about it, right? Recycling...no.
Or the next time a chef prepares a chicken noodle soup or something, and he/she puts their own twist on it by adding something unique, should they be accused of "recycling" a soup recipe that may have existed for how many hundred years yet everyone who makes it has an individual way of using the exact same ingredients everyone tthough history has used to create a chicken noodle soup.
Recycling? No way. There are only 12 notes to choose from when writing a song in the Western format...get a statistician to calculate how many unique combinations of those 12 notes could exist and consider what it is that makes individual songwriters immediately identifiable by their style.
And it can easily be traced well beyond the Beach Boys and a chord sequence on Kokomo if there is a genuine interest in tracing the history of Western music, versus anything subliminal or sounding like what some are seeing as a negative.
There's 479001600 possible combinations.
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Rocker
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #344 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:23:46 AM »
I just received the CD. Brian's vocals on the opening song are fantastic. Very sweet and fragile. Wow!
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.
- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys
PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST
To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.
- Jack Rieley
guitarfool2002
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"Barba non facit aliam historici"
Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
«
Reply #345 on:
April 08, 2015, 09:43:02 AM »
Quote from: The Cincinnati Kid on April 08, 2015, 09:18:44 AM
Quote from: guitarfool2002 on April 08, 2015, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: RubberSoul13 on April 08, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
...it was just one of several examples on this album of Brian recycling Beach Boys material.
Really???
Here is the foundation of Western music for the past several hundred years:
In a "sharp" key:
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
In a "flat" key:
C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B
Those are the twelve individual notes or pitches that comprise all of what we'd call Western music. Whether named in sharps or flats, every chord and melody we hear comes solely from those twelve notes. All of the music we hear comes from those "ingredients".
As something of a musicologist, or historian, or whatever you'd call it, I could trace any number of songs to a previous melody or chord progression. I could pick something on a Beach Boys album and find a precedent on something written in the 1700's possibly as easily as something on a show tune from the 1920's as I could on a Bill Monroe record from the 40's. And on and on and on...
Point is, everyone who writes Western music uses the same ingredients. Just like everyone who writes or speaks the English language uses the same words available to every English speaking person, yet we can identify individuals by the way they write, the way they speak, and which words and phrases they choose to use.
To say Brian is "recycling" Beach Boys songs is, in my opinion, absurd. It becomes more absurd when it gets called out based on a descending chord progression that I could, on demand, find previous examples in any number of thousands of songs.
I just had a similar experience last night where a chord progression came up, and I used it based on what I call the "Hello Goodbye" progression. It's one of the things that simply works, that sounds good, and which writers can call on any time to deliver a hook that they know works and fits so many situations.
Did "All The Young Dudes" 'recycle' McCartney? Did McCartney recycle some Broadway tune from the 30's, or was it a Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven progression? How about Del Shannon's "Runaway"? Did Lennon/McCartney recycle it for "I'll Be Back", Arlo Guthrie with "Comin Into Los Angeles", Chicago with "25 or 6 to 4", Zeppelin with "Babe I'm Gonna leave You", etc?
Or is there a chorale that was heard in cathedrals throughout Europe in the late 1700's by an unknown writer that uses the same chord progression?
It's fun picking some stuff out like that, especially if you're into music history and lineage...but Kokomo?
Just be upfront about it, right? Recycling...no.
Or the next time a chef prepares a chicken noodle soup or something, and he/she puts their own twist on it by adding something unique, should they be accused of "recycling" a soup recipe that may have existed for how many hundred years yet everyone who makes it has an individual way of using the exact same ingredients everyone tthough history has used to create a chicken noodle soup.
Recycling? No way. There are only 12 notes to choose from when writing a song in the Western format...get a statistician to calculate how many unique combinations of those 12 notes could exist and consider what it is that makes individual songwriters immediately identifiable by their style.
And it can easily be traced well beyond the Beach Boys and a chord sequence on Kokomo if there is a genuine interest in tracing the history of Western music, versus anything subliminal or sounding like what some are seeing as a negative.
There's 479001600 possible combinations.
I heard it was 479001610.
Others posting here picked up on it already. Let's just say it was an interesting choice to cite "Kokomo" among the many, many examples that could have been stretched to fit and therefore cited. The one Beach Boys song that gets cited often as being successful without a writing involvement from Brian Wilson.
And the "hook" of Kokomo is primarily built around a I to IV chord vamp and the first five notes or so of a major scale, just for the record. Not exactly unique in its musical structure itself. But that's not the issue, it's pointing out how something was "recycled".
See, usually saying that kind of phrase suggests a lack of ideas, it's kind of a loaded word to use when talking about a songwriter or a song. It's one that could be applied pretty much across the board when critically discussing and analyzing popular music, yet it gets reserved from what I've noticed when a critical/negative bent is at play. Just my opinion, nothing more.
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Mikie
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
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Reply #346 on:
April 08, 2015, 10:13:35 AM »
So as a quick aside here without derailing. Led Zep has been accused many times of ripping off other artists when making their music. Is this accusation valid or does their writing fall into this "foundation of Western music" analogy?
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runnersdialzero
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
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Reply #347 on:
April 08, 2015, 10:30:26 AM »
Quote from: Mikie on April 08, 2015, 10:13:35 AM
So as a quick aside here without derailing. Led Zep has been accused many times of ripping off other artists when making their music. Is this accusation valid or does their writing fall into this "foundation of Western music" analogy?
Valid. I don't think "accused" is the right word when they sometimes outright took entire songs, changed the key, slightly changed the arrangement or lyrics, and then credited themselves with it.
I would forgive them if they were as half as good as folks make them out to be and didn't often write what I would describe as proto-hair metal.
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Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:38:19 AM by runnersdialzero
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zachrwolfe
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Reply #348 on:
April 08, 2015, 10:47:01 AM »
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Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:54:14 PM by zatch
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coco1997
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Re: No Pier Pressure (board member reviews)
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Reply #349 on:
April 08, 2015, 12:00:06 PM »
First impressions after two listens...
"This Beautiful Day" - Perfect mood setter. Love the nod to "Summer's Gone." Short, sweet and to the point.
"Runaway Dancer" - Not sure why people have been complaining that this song is out of place in the two-hole. It works fine for me. A little repetitive, however.
"Whatever Happened" - Sounds a bit like a Carpenters song during the verses. Shades of "From There To Back Again." An instant favorite.
"On the Island" - Cute little track. I love Zooey's voice. Doesn't quite meet the expectations of what I've always wanted in a BW/Zooey collaboration but perhaps they'll team up again someday.
"Half Moon Bay" - Parts of it remind me of "Diamond Head." Not the kind of music you'd expect to hear on a BW record but certainly not unwelcome.
"Our Special Love" - This is actually a standout for me. This mix is far superior to the one Hollens dropped a few months back. I'm relieved we were spared the indignity of rap on a BW record but I do wish we had gotten Frank Ocean singing.
"The Right Time" - Perfectly pleasant but perhaps the most forgettable cut outside of the bonus tracks. Al's vocals save the song from pure mediocrity.
"Guess You Had To Be There" - A nice little tune but both vocals are terribly processed-sounding. Kacey has a nice voice but you can tell she's a modern country singer which is a bit off-putting for me.
"Don't Worry" - This one's been growing on me. I totally hear the Four Tops/latter day Four Seasons comparisons. I can't get past the tinny, synthesized horns, though. Sounds unfinished.
"Somewhere Quiet" - Very emotional experience hearing this beautiful piece of music revisited 50 years after it was recorded. Transcends "bonus track" status.
"I'm Feeling Sad" - Classic, quirky BW. The only song like it on this album. I only wish it were longer.
"Tell Me Why" - Feels like it could've fit it on "Beach Boys '85." Reminds me a bit of "Fairy Tale."
"Sail Away" - Not totally sold on this track but I do enjoy it. It's always great hearing Brian and Al trading off vocals though Blondie sadly does not sound like himself anymore.
"One Kind of Love" - Top 2-3 track on the entire album. Love the French horn and verse chords. I can't wait to hear it in theaters this June.
"Saturday Night" - One of my favorites on the album. Reuss's voice works surprisingly well and you can just tell he's on cloud nine singing it. Interesting decision to save such an upbeat song for the penultimate track.
"The Last Song" - A haunting emotional punch in the gut. I can't decide how it stacks up against "Summer's Gone" but does it really need to? Imagine this one recorded in '76 with Dennis on vocals. Wow.
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Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 12:54:19 PM by coco1997
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