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Author Topic: I'm Feeling Sad  (Read 9282 times)
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 03:08:37 AM »

I love this stuff.  It's crazy that this is only a bonus track.
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2015, 05:53:49 AM »

Ok, now we're talking. Away from schmatlz; matter of fact lyric; cool vocals. This and Sail Away do it for me.
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2015, 06:33:44 AM »

This is great and I love it, much more so than The Last Song which tips over into over-reverbed Celine Dion schmaltz to me: but what is with the Beach Boys callbacks? Yeah, I know, he's Brian [insert expletive of choice here] Wilson, and he wrote Pet Sounds, so he gets to quote whatever he [repeat expletive of choice here] likes musically; but I found it distracting as all hell that Sail Away is as good as it is (I got good-old-fashioned Brian Wilson chills down my spine listening to the final vocal coda the other day)... but then the Sloop John B flute riff keeps bashing me over the head, especially at the end. And now here; this track is a beautifully performed little gem, but the Kiss Me Baby backing vocals keep floating in, as one poster has already noted in one of the other threads.

These tracks are good enough. They're really, really good, freshly written and beautifully performed, and Brian sounds like he's having a blast and singing to match. They don't NEED the musical equivalent of the irritating Nudge-Nudge man from Monty Python waving a giant luminous plastic hand on a stick and going "THERE you go!!! It's Brian Wilson, by the way, folks!! *HEE* was in the Beach Boys, you know. Sayyyy nooooo MOH-WAH!!!!!"

I mean, people bash Mike for always quoting Fun Fun Fun or Good Vibrations in his latter-day lyrics, but this is almost as bad, except done musically, which makes it slightly more subtle (and I guess you'd have to be a fan to notice).

It's an improvement over the call-backs in Smart Girls, I'll give you that. I just wish they weren't there at all. The songs and the performances are strong enough without them IMHO...

So a vague melodic similarity to one line in Kiss Me Baby is nearly just as bad as

"Good vibrations, assassinations, losing leaders never knowing why"
""Good Vibrations" caused such a sensation"
"Spring Vacation, Good vibrations"
"Was havin' fun fun fun as America's band"
"There are people everywhere havin' fun, fun, fun"
"We're on the run, follow the sun, we're having fun fun fun"??

Since the dawn of his songwriting career Brian has used recorded, released ideas on subsequently recorded songs....they are either recorded better (Land Ahoy/Cherry Cherry Coupe) or he takes small ideas from them (I Ran/Look/Good Vibrations). Thing is, they're never the exact same and he doesn't use them to ridiculously and annoyingly boast about his previous success. Also, it could very well have been accidental.
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2015, 06:58:46 AM »

There's no way the Sail Away callback can be an accident. You've got two songs about sailing out to sea, recorded decades apart, and both feature the same riff played on the same instrument several times in the later song. The odds of that happening by random coincidence, as Zaphod Beeblebrox once memorably said, are 'ten to the power of my overdraft'...!

The Kiss Me Baby/I'm Feeling Sad connection is certainly looser, but we're not just talking melody there - it's all the harmony lines in the BVs as well. And both are about a couple who have either split or had a disagreement which has temporarily driven them apart.

That seems subtly different to me from taking a riff in a tune that either wasn't released at the time (as with the I Ran/Look riff) or taking something from a song that was written for another artist and re-using it in a totally new song and context. Sloop John B and Kiss Me Baby *were* released and are very well known.

Certainly, a case can be made for saying that these are deliberately chosen artistic callbacks that the casual listener will overlook and the fan will spot; maybe we are supposed to compare and contrast the thematic similariities between the earlier and later songs. Or maybe (probably more likely...!) Brian just thought it was fun to throw the references in there. My opinion is: the songs are good enough not to need support from his older triumphs. They stand on their own merits, and so I don't know why we keep needing to hear old riffs and harmonic feels when the new stuff is so good on its own. That Sail Away coda *smokes* — the harmonies are the most exciting thing I've heard Brian put out in years. But hey, it's not my album... (obviously!)

The repeated references back grate on *me* somewhat — but I guess not everyone feels the same...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 07:12:32 AM by Matt Bielewicz » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2015, 07:09:28 AM »

Sail Away is indeed an obvious nod to Sloop (even The Right Time has some homages to Sloop in it)....I was talking about I'm Feeling Sad when I mentioned it being possibly accidental. But in no way is it even remotely similar to Mike mentioning Fun Fun Fun and Good Vibes in an uncomfortably large amount of songs he's written in the last 30 years.
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2015, 07:17:00 AM »

Good song!
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2015, 07:36:12 AM »

An interesting little song, reminds me of Sweet Insanity or Adult/Child in a way.

An interesting sentiment - my feeling was "these melodies sound like nothing Brian ever did" - not implying he didn't write them, more like "this is fresh".
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2015, 07:44:38 AM »

I'm not enjoying this one as much as some of the others. (Neither do I dislike it, by any means.) I think the thing I like least is Brian's own ascending "bop baba doo wah" part in the middle section. I don't like how he scoops up into the wah. I wish someone else had done that line. Kind of a ridiculous thing to stick in my craw, but what the hell. I checked my craw and that's what I found stuck there. (This was an amazing accomplishment on my part, since I don't know what a craw is.)

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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2015, 07:46:35 AM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2015, 08:12:01 AM »

There are some really annoying people here whose posts I skip whenever possible, but so far you're not one of them to me, Debbie. No annoying spiteful remarks in your posts. Your joy seems to come from your heart.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:13:48 AM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2015, 08:13:03 AM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

Is this a response to me? If not, ignore anything else you'd like of this. If so, I'm a little surprised. It's not like I shat on the song or criticized BW. I made fun of myself for being bothered by such a small little thing. I said I don't enjoy this particular track as some people seem to--in that some people seem to be rating this one best of all. (I'd put it maybe 5th or 6th of those released.) "Neither do I dislike it, by any means," I said. I've been pretty consistent in my positivity about this album, in fact, from what I've heard of it. (See my thoughts in the "rank the tracks" thread, if you want.) I don't think anything here was snarky at all, and neither do I think my previous comments on this album's material were snarky--except toward myself as an unimportant, single listener.
 
I have nothing against your posts whatsoever. I enjoy them.

My name is Luther. Many people here know this. It's irrelevant. I could say it's John Martin. Or Bob Papanikolau. Or Dejan Bodiroga (which would be great, since he's my favorite basketball player ever). Since I don't matter, it doesn't matter. I say here what I'd say in person; I don't change names constantly or try to hide behind anonymity. I'm consistent. I'm honest. I prefer not to use my full name as an avatar to preserve a certain miniscule amount of privacy in this online world. (I am posting on a Beach Boys message board during work hours right now, after all...)



 
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2015, 09:05:01 AM »

I think there are two things going on when people talk about Brian quoting earlier work.

One is the composer's conscious or unconscious recycling. There have been lengthy threads devoted to this. Prime conscious example: "My Solution" becomes the verses to the first part of "Happy Days."

The other is what happens during the arranging / production phase, when someone decides to do a conscious callback to a BB record. Good example: The "Farmer's Daughter" callback at the end of "I Got Rhythm" on BWRG.

The first example is what happens when anyone creates a huge body of work over some 50-plus years. That second example is more troublesome to me (and others) because it means you have a song like "Summer's Gone," for example, which is gorgeous on its own, and yet is arranged as a callback to "Caroline, No." It can deprive a wonderful song of originality.

"Sail Away," in this case, is an amazing tune that seems to have had space for some sort of arrangement "fill" as Brian and Joe were writing / constructing it. And my suspicion (shortly to be contradicted by someone in the know, I'm sure) is that Joe or Paul Mertens said, "Hey Brian, that Sloop riff would fit in here perfectly!"

But there's no real reason why it has to be there, except to refer to an earlier song. And it's annoying, because "Sail Away" is a hook machine, a crazily constructed tune, a real achievement, and yet someone like the Rolling Stone reviewer hears it and instantly dismisses it as a SJB rewrite because of one single, damned riff.
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2015, 09:10:55 AM »

I'd add a third thing to those, Wirestone: simple similarities based on the common forms of pop music. A chord progression, a groove, a rhythm. Neither true recycling of existing (but often unreleased) material nor a conscious quotation, but just fans used to paying really close attention to such things, looking for examples of the two things you mentioned when they aren't necessarily there, other than by the fact that even when it's as innovative as BW's has been, pop music has constraints. (Predominance of I-IV-V or I-ii-V, or I-vi-IV-V, or particular bass lines, etc.)

Because we can, say, sing one song over another, I believe people are quick to jump to the false conclusion that it's recycling or quoting.
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2015, 09:18:11 AM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

I think there should be a place for everybody who wants to voice their point of view on this board. That does nothing but make it better. Cheerleaders are fine and dandy, just as are people who have a more balanced opinion that they want to share. Negative Nellies can be entertaining as well, and add a bit of spice to the proceedings. A board full of nothing but cheerleaders- now THAT would be annoying. So, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz as long as it's all kept civil (which I find it to be most of the time around here).

As for the 'Kiss Me Baby' similarity to 'I'm Feeling Sad', I don't find it annoying or egregious and it does not  obviously scream out that it was intentional (who knows?). I actually like that it reminds me 'Kiss Me Baby' which is not a very well known song, unlike 'Sloop John B'.  The 'Sail Away' thing just feels kind of lame and desperate, but maybe I'm just taking it too seriously.
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2015, 09:30:31 AM »

Good point, Cap, although I was confining my examples to instances where melodies / riffs / arrangement touches are clearly and inarguably like other melodies / riffs / arrangement touches.

I remember when TLOS came out and there was a lot of what you mention -- folks claiming recycling when really it was just songwriting.
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« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2015, 09:48:44 AM »

About the 'callbacks'.  I like that word.  Brian's always done that, right?  People have remarked that "Our Sweet Love" sounds 1 whole hell of a lot like "God Only Knows". 

It's one of my... pet peeves about how some people view the whole thing.  All of the things they blame on Brian's entourage, actually is part of who Brian himself is.  For instance, the callbacks everybody's always given Mike sh*t about, Brian himself does to an extent.  Mike certainly does much worse but it's something they both do and are both into.  Brian may even appreciate that Mike does it, and so does more of it himself.  Mike is a hell of a frontman and as corny as some of it is (in interviews, etc.) he's successful with it.

Another similar thing is all the vocal processing on the stuff (Autotune, reverb, whatever you want to think it is), and the general production quality of these last songs... some people aren't into them and call it Joe Thomas' production.  No, it's Brian Wilson's production.  He likes the sound of every note on those songs or they wouldn't be coming out like that, and Joe Thomas wasn't around for 10 years while Brian did similar stuff. 

So the callbacks are overdone sometimes, but he's always done that to an extent.  Brian's never been one to abandon a great song idea.... whether it was nipping Chuck Berry, or releasing "Help Me Rhonda" twice... or writing Sherry, She Needs Me for 30 years or whatever, or using the GV theme in "Look" (or reusing it on GV, whichever).... or using songs he wrote 20 years ago....

Personally I have no problem with it.  I understand it could be seen as lazy, but I've always seen it as Brian having a great love for about everything he's written, enough to reuse it and keep thinking of it in different ways. 
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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2015, 10:04:04 AM »

That is classic Brian Wilson.

Love it.
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2015, 10:08:53 AM »

This album certainly is something special. As Micha pointed out, it sounds fresh.
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2015, 10:14:31 AM »

Sail Away is indeed an obvious nod to Sloop (even The Right Time has some homages to Sloop in it)....I was talking about I'm Feeling Sad when I mentioned it being possibly accidental. But in no way is it even remotely similar to Mike mentioning Fun Fun Fun and Good Vibes in an uncomfortably large amount of songs he's written in the last 30 years.
"Sail Away" also has parts of the bassline from "Sloop," although it sounds like the bassist kept trying to get away from that riff, so it's much more subtle.
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« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2015, 10:45:03 AM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

Is this a response to me? If not, ignore anything else you'd like of this. If so, I'm a little surprised. It's not like I shat on the song or criticized BW. I made fun of myself for being bothered by such a small little thing. I said I don't enjoy this particular track as some people seem to--in that some people seem to be rating this one best of all. (I'd put it maybe 5th or 6th of those released.) "Neither do I dislike it, by any means," I said. I've been pretty consistent in my positivity about this album, in fact, from what I've heard of it. (See my thoughts in the "rank the tracks" thread, if you want.) I don't think anything here was snarky at all, and neither do I think my previous comments on this album's material were snarky--except toward myself as an unimportant, single listener.
 
I have nothing against your posts whatsoever. I enjoy them.

My name is Luther. Many people here know this. It's irrelevant. I could say it's John Martin. Or Bob Papanikolau. Or Dejan Bodiroga (which would be great, since he's my favorite basketball player ever). Since I don't matter, it doesn't matter. I say here what I'd say in person; I don't change names constantly or try to hide behind anonymity. I'm consistent. I'm honest. I prefer not to use my full name as an avatar to preserve a certain miniscule amount of privacy in this online world. (I am posting on a Beach Boys message board during work hours right now, after all...)



 

My post had nothing to do with you Luther.
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« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2015, 10:46:46 AM »

There are some really annoying people here whose posts I skip whenever possible, but so far you're not one of them to me, Debbie. No annoying spiteful remarks in your posts. Your joy seems to come from your heart.

Thanks, Micha
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« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2015, 10:52:49 AM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

Is this a response to me? If not, ignore anything else you'd like of this. If so, I'm a little surprised. It's not like I shat on the song or criticized BW. I made fun of myself for being bothered by such a small little thing. I said I don't enjoy this particular track as some people seem to--in that some people seem to be rating this one best of all. (I'd put it maybe 5th or 6th of those released.) "Neither do I dislike it, by any means," I said. I've been pretty consistent in my positivity about this album, in fact, from what I've heard of it. (See my thoughts in the "rank the tracks" thread, if you want.) I don't think anything here was snarky at all, and neither do I think my previous comments on this album's material were snarky--except toward myself as an unimportant, single listener.
 
I have nothing against your posts whatsoever. I enjoy them.

My name is Luther. Many people here know this. It's irrelevant. I could say it's John Martin. Or Bob Papanikolau. Or Dejan Bodiroga (which would be great, since he's my favorite basketball player ever). Since I don't matter, it doesn't matter. I say here what I'd say in person; I don't change names constantly or try to hide behind anonymity. I'm consistent. I'm honest. I prefer not to use my full name as an avatar to preserve a certain miniscule amount of privacy in this online world. (I am posting on a Beach Boys message board during work hours right now, after all...)
 

My post had nothing to do with you Luther.

OK, good to know. Then I hope you took the option of ignoring the rest! (The proximity and a few points within made me wonder. Or maybe I'm just that self-centered.)
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« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2015, 01:02:30 PM »

Wow..really liking this one. And like hearing what sounds like BW's falsetto in the ba da bop part!
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« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2015, 02:10:34 PM »

This album certainly is something special. As Micha pointed out, it sounds fresh.

"I'm Feeling Sad" sounds fresh. "The Right Time"... doesn't.

We will see the whole picture at the end of this week.
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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2015, 07:18:42 PM »

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

I think there should be a place for everybody who wants to voice their point of view on this board. That does nothing but make it better. Cheerleaders are fine and dandy, just as are people who have a more balanced opinion that they want to share. Negative Nellies can be entertaining as well, and add a bit of spice to the proceedings. A board full of nothing but cheerleaders- now THAT would be annoying. So, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz as long as it's all kept civil (which I find it to be most of the time around here).


Good post, Krab! Please understand, there are those who have difficulty with opinions on the negative side, and those who even have a hard time with constructive criticism. And there are those who love to play the martyr (victim) and try to solicit sympathy or try to recruit others to take sides on an issue. And just like they were at Beach Boys concerts in the 80’s, cheerleaders are a novelty at first, then wear thin after awhile.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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