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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nsb9x (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nsb9x)

1:18:00

Wow love it!

This might be my favorite off of NPP yet.

Great track! Busy Doin Nothin vibes all around!

Loving this!  Lots.   

Great song... sounds like a 60's track...

That tune is a feeling many of us share when we are alone and wish the people we love were around.  Very easy to relate to that song.....

I've been very impressed with most of the songs I've heard so far, but this one really stands out to me; it's probably my favorite so far. Most of it has to do with the fact that, as Peter pointed out, it's very relatable and emotional. I love it so much!

I'm really looking forward to "Whatever Happened." I think that one's going to be absolutely stellar as well.

What's up with the BBC getting first shot at these songs?  Where's Rodney Bingenheimer when you need him?

It is a little peculiar that they keep premiering all this stuff in Europe, maybe they just have better radio programs over there?  Surely there's somebody running something somewhere in the U.S. (besides Ryan Seacrest) who could play this stuff live.  With that said though, not in my city, there's no live DJ's that are worth a crap.

Well, we know Brian (and the Boys) have always been received better in the UK, right? [Hint of sarcasm in my voice].

Who's idea is this really. Brian's people/label? Does the UK get the jump with the pre-release promo goods before the U.S. on purpose?  Does Brian like them best or do the radio stations over here have their heads up their butts?

I don't think there's a lot of radio interest here in the United States for legacy artists. When's the last time you heard new McCartney / Dyan / etc. on a non-NPR radio show? Just the direction of the business.

Frankly, I doubt the record is going to sell that well here -- it's languishing in the Amazon sales charts, and I'm not seeing a promo blitz. The reviews are polite, but not glowing. Too bad, given how great the record itself seems to be.

I like it.  Bouncy rhythm and catchy tune with on target sad/day in the life lyrics (I can remember times I avoided my house because of loneliness).  The wordless vocal part reminds me of The Association (in a good way) and the subject matter reminds me of "Where Is She?"  

This will be one heck of an album.

I think you're right on all counts, Wirestone.  It's unfortunate the way the music business has been going.  I'm sure Ringo's new album isn't faring any better.....

BW and BB albums also tend to fare considerably better on the charts in Europe, I think.

I'm really surprised NPR hasn't started eating up these tracks!

File under "BW (slice-of-life)".  ;D

This one's a cracker, definitely gonna go on my ultimate playlist.

This is great and I love it, much more so than The Last Song which tips over into over-reverbed Celine Dion schmaltz to me: but what is with the Beach Boys callbacks? Yeah, I know, he's Brian [insert expletive of choice here] Wilson, and he wrote Pet Sounds, so he gets to quote whatever he [repeat expletive of choice here] likes musically; but I found it distracting as all hell that Sail Away is as good as it is (I got good-old-fashioned Brian Wilson chills down my spine listening to the final vocal coda the other day)... but then the Sloop John B flute riff keeps bashing me over the head, especially at the end. And now here; this track is a beautifully performed little gem, but the Kiss Me Baby backing vocals keep floating in, as one poster has already noted in one of the other threads.

These tracks are good enough. They're really, really good, freshly written and beautifully performed, and Brian sounds like he's having a blast and singing to match. They don't NEED the musical equivalent of the irritating Nudge-Nudge man from Monty Python waving a giant luminous plastic hand on a stick and going "THERE you go!!! It's Brian Wilson, by the way, folks!! *HEE* was in the Beach Boys, you know. Sayyyy nooooo MOH-WAH!!!!!"

I mean, people bash Mike for always quoting Fun Fun Fun or Good Vibrations in his latter-day lyrics, but this is almost as bad, except done musically, which makes it slightly more subtle (and I guess you'd have to be a fan to notice).

It's an improvement over the call-backs in Smart Girls, I'll give you that. I just wish they weren't there at all. The songs and the performances are strong enough without them IMHO...

Happy music about being sad… slice of life… wall of Brians…

What is there not to like? ;D

Well, as noted above John - extremely unsubtle musical callbacks to past back-catalogue triumphs!

All that said, this is quite clearly Brian's strongest solo album since... well, probably ever, I reckon. And I think that's probably quite a safe judgement to call now, with nearly half the tracks in the Public Domain. With the film this year and a new release this strong, I'm sure he will pick up some new fans in 2015. It was a film about Brian that did it for me back in 1995...

Me, I was always going to buy this record anyway, but there's more than enough strong stuff here to justify the price of admission, even if the over-sheeny production cheeses me off on a few tracks. It's great to hear Brian still smashing it at his age. We're unbelievably lucky in that respect.

A nice track.

An interesting little song, reminds me of Sweet Insanity or Adult/Child in a way.

Best song off the album so far. Fuckin' killer! AC AOR WHATEVER GENRE THESE TWATS NEED THEIR MUSIC TO FIT PERFECTLY INTO THEIR PIGEONHOLE LITTLE BOXES AND OTTO TUNA FISH OR NOT. The best, the best, the best.


Brian Wilson, you da man. And you keep stickin' it to the man. 

My God he sounds good .

I love this stuff.  It's crazy that this is only a bonus track.

Ok, now we're talking. Away from schmatlz; matter of fact lyric; cool vocals. This and Sail Away do it for me.

So a vague melodic similarity to one line in Kiss Me Baby is nearly just as bad as

"Good vibrations, assassinations, losing leaders never knowing why"
""Good Vibrations" caused such a sensation"
"Spring Vacation, Good vibrations"
"Was havin' fun fun fun as America's band"
"There are people everywhere havin' fun, fun, fun"
"We're on the run, follow the sun, we're having fun fun fun"??

Since the dawn of his songwriting career Brian has used recorded, released ideas on subsequently recorded songs....they are either recorded better (Land Ahoy/Cherry Cherry Coupe) or he takes small ideas from them (I Ran/Look/Good Vibrations). Thing is, they're never the exact same and he doesn't use them to ridiculously and annoyingly boast about his previous success. Also, it could very well have been accidental.

There's no way the Sail Away callback can be an accident. You've got two songs about sailing out to sea, recorded decades apart, and both feature the same riff played on the same instrument several times in the later song. The odds of that happening by random coincidence, as Zaphod Beeblebrox once memorably said, are 'ten to the power of my overdraft'...!

The Kiss Me Baby/I'm Feeling Sad connection is certainly looser, but we're not just talking melody there - it's all the harmony lines in the BVs as well. And both are about a couple who have either split or had a disagreement which has temporarily driven them apart.

That seems subtly different to me from taking a riff in a tune that either wasn't released at the time (as with the I Ran/Look riff) or taking something from a song that was written for another artist and re-using it in a totally new song and context. Sloop John B and Kiss Me Baby *were* released and are very well known.

Certainly, a case can be made for saying that these are deliberately chosen artistic callbacks that the casual listener will overlook and the fan will spot; maybe we are supposed to compare and contrast the thematic similariities between the earlier and later songs. Or maybe (probably more likely...!) Brian just thought it was fun to throw the references in there. My opinion is: the songs are good enough not to need support from his older triumphs. They stand on their own merits, and so I don't know why we keep needing to hear old riffs and harmonic feels when the new stuff is so good on its own. That Sail Away coda *smokes* — the harmonies are the most exciting thing I've heard Brian put out in years. But hey, it's not my album... (obviously!)

The repeated references back grate on *me* somewhat — but I guess not everyone feels the same...

Sail Away is indeed an obvious nod to Sloop (even The Right Time has some homages to Sloop in it)....I was talking about I'm Feeling Sad when I mentioned it being possibly accidental. But in no way is it even remotely similar to Mike mentioning Fun Fun Fun and Good Vibes in an uncomfortably large amount of songs he's written in the last 30 years.

Good song!

An interesting sentiment - my feeling was "these melodies sound like nothing Brian ever did" - not implying he didn't write them, more like "this is fresh".

I'm not enjoying this one as much as some of the others. (Neither do I dislike it, by any means.) I think the thing I like least is Brian's own ascending "bop baba doo wah" part in the middle section. I don't like how he scoops up into the wah. I wish someone else had done that line. Kind of a ridiculous thing to stick in my craw, but what the hell. I checked my craw and that's what I found stuck there. (This was an amazing accomplishment on my part, since I don't know what a craw is.)

Okay, so it's been made quite clear to me that I'm an annoying "cheerleader" here.  If you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them - feel free to skip.  I guess I find "cheerleading" preferable to feeling obligated to make snarky comments - or at least finding some piddling bit to bitch about in anything and everything.  All done so I won't be "uncool" here. I post under my real name so that I don't make comments that I wouldn't say to someone's face, in public.  I don't say I like or love things that I don't.  Post however you wish (and lot's of your comments are truly hilarious, so thanks).  

And, everyone's opinions are all fine - like NPP, don't like it - buy it, don't buy it.  Just don't steal it. (Oh good, I annoyed someone there, I'm sure).  Like Rab, CD, and many others not posting, I'm celebrating that Brian is still giving us these gifts while doing what he wants.  That's been made quite clear about this album by everyone involved.  I have always loved hearing Brian when he's doing what he wants.  This song makes me really, really un-sad.  It's great, and relaxing in a wound-tight world.  What a great next few months with NPP as the soundtrack.  Rah, RAH, sis-boom-bah...

There are some really annoying people here whose posts I skip whenever possible, but so far you're not one of them to me, Debbie. No annoying spiteful remarks in your posts. Your joy seems to come from your heart.

Is this a response to me? If not, ignore anything else you'd like of this. If so, I'm a little surprised. It's not like I shat on the song or criticized BW. I made fun of myself for being bothered by such a small little thing. I said I don't enjoy this particular track as some people seem to--in that some people seem to be rating this one best of all. (I'd put it maybe 5th or 6th of those released.) "Neither do I dislike it, by any means," I said. I've been pretty consistent in my positivity about this album, in fact, from what I've heard of it. (See my thoughts in the "rank the tracks" thread, if you want.) I don't think anything here was snarky at all, and neither do I think my previous comments on this album's material were snarky--except toward myself as an unimportant, single listener.
 
I have nothing against your posts whatsoever. I enjoy them.

My name is Luther. Many people here know this. It's irrelevant. I could say it's John Martin. Or Bob Papanikolau. Or Dejan Bodiroga (which would be great, since he's my favorite basketball player ever). Since I don't matter, it doesn't matter. I say here what I'd say in person; I don't change names constantly or try to hide behind anonymity. I'm consistent. I'm honest. I prefer not to use my full name as an avatar to preserve a certain miniscule amount of privacy in this online world. (I am posting on a Beach Boys message board during work hours right now, after all...)



 

I think there are two things going on when people talk about Brian quoting earlier work.

One is the composer's conscious or unconscious recycling. There have been lengthy threads devoted to this. Prime conscious example: "My Solution" becomes the verses to the first part of "Happy Days."

The other is what happens during the arranging / production phase, when someone decides to do a conscious callback to a BB record. Good example: The "Farmer's Daughter" callback at the end of "I Got Rhythm" on BWRG.

The first example is what happens when anyone creates a huge body of work over some 50-plus years. That second example is more troublesome to me (and others) because it means you have a song like "Summer's Gone," for example, which is gorgeous on its own, and yet is arranged as a callback to "Caroline, No." It can deprive a wonderful song of originality.

"Sail Away," in this case, is an amazing tune that seems to have had space for some sort of arrangement "fill" as Brian and Joe were writing / constructing it. And my suspicion (shortly to be contradicted by someone in the know, I'm sure) is that Joe or Paul Mertens said, "Hey Brian, that Sloop riff would fit in here perfectly!"

But there's no real reason why it has to be there, except to refer to an earlier song. And it's annoying, because "Sail Away" is a hook machine, a crazily constructed tune, a real achievement, and yet someone like the Rolling Stone reviewer hears it and instantly dismisses it as a SJB rewrite because of one single, damned riff.

I'd add a third thing to those, Wirestone: simple similarities based on the common forms of pop music. A chord progression, a groove, a rhythm. Neither true recycling of existing (but often unreleased) material nor a conscious quotation, but just fans used to paying really close attention to such things, looking for examples of the two things you mentioned when they aren't necessarily there, other than by the fact that even when it's as innovative as BW's has been, pop music has constraints. (Predominance of I-IV-V or I-ii-V, or I-vi-IV-V, or particular bass lines, etc.)

Because we can, say, sing one song over another, I believe people are quick to jump to the false conclusion that it's recycling or quoting.

I think there should be a place for everybody who wants to voice their point of view on this board. That does nothing but make it better. Cheerleaders are fine and dandy, just as are people who have a more balanced opinion that they want to share. Negative Nellies can be entertaining as well, and add a bit of spice to the proceedings. A board full of nothing but cheerleaders- now THAT would be annoying. So, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz as long as it's all kept civil (which I find it to be most of the time around here).

As for the 'Kiss Me Baby' similarity to 'I'm Feeling Sad', I don't find it annoying or egregious and it does not  obviously scream out that it was intentional (who knows?). I actually like that it reminds me 'Kiss Me Baby' which is not a very well known song, unlike 'Sloop John B'.  The 'Sail Away' thing just feels kind of lame and desperate, but maybe I'm just taking it too seriously.

Good point, Cap, although I was confining my examples to instances where melodies / riffs / arrangement touches are clearly and inarguably like other melodies / riffs / arrangement touches.

I remember when TLOS came out and there was a lot of what you mention -- folks claiming recycling when really it was just songwriting.

About the 'callbacks'.  I like that word.  Brian's always done that, right?  People have remarked that "Our Sweet Love" sounds 1 whole hell of a lot like "God Only Knows". 

It's one of my... pet peeves about how some people view the whole thing.  All of the things they blame on Brian's entourage, actually is part of who Brian himself is.  For instance, the callbacks everybody's always given Mike sh*t about, Brian himself does to an extent.  Mike certainly does much worse but it's something they both do and are both into.  Brian may even appreciate that Mike does it, and so does more of it himself.  Mike is a hell of a frontman and as corny as some of it is (in interviews, etc.) he's successful with it.

Another similar thing is all the vocal processing on the stuff (Autotune, reverb, whatever you want to think it is), and the general production quality of these last songs... some people aren't into them and call it Joe Thomas' production.  No, it's Brian Wilson's production.  He likes the sound of every note on those songs or they wouldn't be coming out like that, and Joe Thomas wasn't around for 10 years while Brian did similar stuff. 

So the callbacks are overdone sometimes, but he's always done that to an extent.  Brian's never been one to abandon a great song idea.... whether it was nipping Chuck Berry, or releasing "Help Me Rhonda" twice... or writing Sherry, She Needs Me for 30 years or whatever, or using the GV theme in "Look" (or reusing it on GV, whichever).... or using songs he wrote 20 years ago....

Personally I have no problem with it.  I understand it could be seen as lazy, but I've always seen it as Brian having a great love for about everything he's written, enough to reuse it and keep thinking of it in different ways. 

That is classic Brian Wilson.

Love it.

This album certainly is something special. As Micha pointed out, it sounds fresh.

"Sail Away" also has parts of the bassline from "Sloop," although it sounds like the bassist kept trying to get away from that riff, so it's much more subtle.

My post had nothing to do with you Luther.

Thanks, Micha

OK, good to know. Then I hope you took the option of ignoring the rest! (The proximity and a few points within made me wonder. Or maybe I'm just that self-centered.)

Wow..really liking this one. And like hearing what sounds like BW's falsetto in the ba da bop part!

"I'm Feeling Sad" sounds fresh. "The Right Time"... doesn't. (http://smileysmile.net/board/Smileys/default/cool.gif)

We will see the whole picture at the end of this week.

Good post, Krab! Please understand, there are those who have difficulty with opinions on the negative side, and those who even have a hard time with constructive criticism. And there are those who love to play the martyr (victim) and try to solicit sympathy or try to recruit others to take sides on an issue. And just like they were at Beach Boys concerts in the 80’s, cheerleaders are a novelty at first, then wear thin after awhile.

Hey Mikie, why not just come out and say what you really mean?

Hello Debbie. Like Luther, I am wondering if what I posted somehow gave offence, as your post quoted above came shortly after one of mine. I hope not; nothing I wrote was so intended. I suppose it might have been when I said 'The repeated references back grate on *me* somewhat — but I guess not everyone feels the same...' But I meant that as a simple statement of fact, not as a denigration of 'cheerleading' — and clearly, from subsequent posts, it would seem that what I wrote *is* true. Some people, like myself and now I see also Wirestone, are bothered by the clearly deliberate quoting of Brian's past successful musical work in his new stuff, while others are less concerned or let it wash over them. All of these different reactions are fine by me: if we all felt the same way, it would be pretty dull in here and indeed in the world in general.

I would imagine that we've *all* of us here been cheerleaders of Brian Douglas Wilson's work at some point: giving cassette compilations, self-burnt CDs or iTunes playlists to friends or loved ones to spread the word or shine light on obscure parts of his back catalogue that we rate. Hell, I can cheerleader about some tracks until the cows come home, like I did about 'Don't Talk' the other day at the end of this thread  (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,20159.0.html) (which subsquently tanked and sank without trace after I posted in it, but there you go..., this will happen from time to time...!).

So anyway, no hard feelings intended in your direction — or indeed in anyone's. I'd always far rather keep BW-related discussion here a) going and b) civil than see it descend into personal insults, and my posting history here backs that up.

With that in mind, let's continue. As is so often the case, following my post expressing unease at Brian's 'audible quoting of back catalogue' Wirestone has nailed my reasons for not liking it far more concisely and effectively than I did:


That's *exactly* what bugs me. Brian's recycling of riff ideas to build new songs throughout his creative life, no: 'deliberate and audible throwbacks to past glories', yes. But like the use of pitch-correction or over-sheeny 80s production, it bothers some more than others.

I'm kind of in the middle on the latter points. The production of what I've heard of NPP so far, as I've been open about here, bugs me a bit, and I'm certain I hear warbly pitch artefacts on some spots in the new stuff that riles my ears from time to time (like Robo-Brian on this track on 'take a look at the paper and throw it AWÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ' and to a lesser extent on 'no place to go, but I'm on my WÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ'): but when the songs are as strong as much of what we're hearing of NPP seems to be, I can still get caught up in the music and forget those kind of objections. I mean, a lot of us did and do that with Robo-Al on 'From Here To Back Again', right? Great (then-)new tune from Brian, Al still sounds 25, incredible stuff. BUT — aaargh, the Orto-Choon, my ears are bleeding... Overall, though, the positives outweigh the negatives, and you can find a way to listen to it such that you're not unhappy and just hear the good aspects.

(Not everyone here is the same. A lot of people are rubbed up the wrong way by runnersdialzero, but I totally get where he's coming from on this pitch-tweaking and 80s production stuff on the bits of NPP we've heard, and on TWGMTR. It makes him unhappy and he can't 'unhear' the squeezy, cheesy mustard and the audible equivalent of Joe Thomas's ice-hockey hair all over the tracks (ewww...). I can sort of see and hear past it, as I can with the bits of Imagination I like — but he can't. I respect that opinion too, because there are some bits of Imagination, like Lay Down Burden, which I *can't* do that with — it's an AC, sheeny, 80s nylon-guitarfest too far for me — so I relate to what he means)

But on I'm Feeling Sad, for me the positives definitely outweigh the negatives (slightly ironically given the title). It sounds bloody great; the chord progressions, BVs and even the lyrics are classic Brian (for all that the processing on it bothers me, the line 'no place to go but I'm on my way' is a terrific lyric, as is the couplet 'take a walk to the grocery store; can't remember what I came for'). It's also catchy as all hell. For the sake of that, I can definitely live with a bit of Kiss Me Baby floating in now and again...!

An upbeat song about being sad.  Interesting. 

It's great. The first brand new Brian Wilson production in years that doesn't have butchered vocals. Any other production or arranging issues are inconsequential.

Beyond, peachy ...

A happy song about sadness. And Brian is known for often having done the opposite.

I like it. Despite the fact - or hey! maybe because of it! -  that Brian has sung with other people on the new album, those songs I have heard are quintessential Brian Wilson and anything that is so drenched in Brianessence has my vote!

I'm waiting to hear what it all sounds like in context because the cumulative effect makes a difference too as I learned at the very beginning of my interest in the  Beach Boys' music. I started with the Best of... series - lots of hits and a good sample but so much better when I heard the complete original albums. At worst, some of the tracks were filler but even then possible to see how Brian was developing his musical ideas. At best the album rather than the individual songs was the complete work. The songs from Pet Sounds all stand up in their own right but as an album, so much more powerful.