gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 10:22:33 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong?  (Read 52702 times)
Please delete my account
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 872

Please delete my account


View Profile
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2015, 02:32:36 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I think it was legitimate to get him active again, doing what he did best and thus giving him artistic fulfilment and emotional expression.

Not so legitimate to expect and exert pressure on him for commercial hit records.
Logged

Please delete my account
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1565


SMiLE is America: Infinite Potential Never Reached


View Profile WWW
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2015, 02:34:51 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

Agreed. I think the whole "Brian's back!" campaign was shameful exploitation of someone who was obviously unwell and unfit to be producing music.

To answer the original question, no I don't think so. As someone else stated, Landy strikes me as a complete sociopath. Just completely manipulative, ego-driven and ruthless, but also strangely disassociated from himself, lacking self-awareness or shame. It's hard to explain but after you've lived with or been in constant contact with an honest to god sociopath you know exactly what I mean. My ex-roommate struck me in the same way and opened my eyes to the fact that there are some really scary people out there. Landy was just one of those people who picked a profession that allowed him to exert complete control over others, and was lucky enough to be given a patient with vast amounts of money, fame and connections to take advantage of. It's like a real-life horror story, what happened. Completely inappropriate that someone in this thread would make light of such a thing.
Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
stack-o-tracks
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1408


The baker man


View Profile
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2015, 02:49:38 AM »

Aside from the fact that Eugene Landy saved Brian's life in the short term, he was a fucking psycho, and likely never thought he did anything wrong when it came to the "handling" of Brian Wilson.


He suffered from a mental illness, albeit a different one, (I'm not the armchair psychological doctor type to be able to say which one) just as much as Brian did.

There are special places in death hell reserved for whacked out egomaniacs like Eugene Landy and if there's an afterlife, he's going to be suffering eternally for the mental and physical damage Brian Wilson had to endure because of him.....


Rot in hell, Eugene Landy, and may your wretched DNA be wiped from this planet before it tries to brainwash again.
Logged

No mas, por favor.
Autotune
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1699



View Profile
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2015, 03:15:56 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marylin's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.
Logged

"His lyrical ability has never been touched by anyone, except for Mike Love."

-Brian Wilson on Van Dyke Parks (2015)
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1565


SMiLE is America: Infinite Potential Never Reached


View Profile WWW
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2015, 03:32:42 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marylin's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.

I assumed he meant Carl and the Boys.

I agree, I think Marilyn was a sweet woman with genuine concern for Brian and their kids. Her only crime was marrying young and getting in way over her head.
Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Autotune
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1699



View Profile
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2015, 05:02:38 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marilyn's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.


I assumed he meant Carl and the Boys.

I agree, I think Marilyn was a sweet woman with genuine concern for Brian and their kids. Her only crime was marrying young and getting in way over her head.

Yeah. I think his brothers and group probably felt that being fully involved with music would be healthy for him and good for his recovery. I don't think they were entirely misled. Brian's well-being these last couple of decades depends on many factors, to be sure, but music-making is among the most important. I think we've heard Melinda stress how important the touring and other activities have been for Brian. So I don't think the core of that idea (i.e. "bringing him back will be good for him") was any wrong. In any case, it was a matter of timing and exectution.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 06:04:42 PM by Challenger Putney » Logged

"His lyrical ability has never been touched by anyone, except for Mike Love."

-Brian Wilson on Van Dyke Parks (2015)
Bittersweet-Sanity
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 210


Busy Doin' Nothing


View Profile
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2015, 05:21:25 AM »

Brains is Brian with the A and the I reversed, and Genius is obvious... Make of that what you will.

In other news, I found out what Alexandra Morgan's been up to. A one-woman show called 'Sexagenarian'. https://vimeo.com/120994523 Still quite gorgeous, if i do say so myself
Logged

"It looks like I'm going to have to go bananas all by myself." -B.W.

"Dr. Landy and Brian Wilson are right out of a storybook." -Brian Wilson

"So maybe Beach Boys fans are stupid and we can dismiss the whole thing. But maybe that's a pretty snotty attitude to take; maybe something is happening here that we just ought to know about" -Paul Williams

"Brian is an enigma, a leprechaun," said rhythm guitarist Al Jardine.

"There ain't a rocketship powerfull enough to be able to blast Jeff's fat ass into space."-Mike's Beard
John Malone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 90



View Profile
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2015, 08:52:07 AM »

Brains is Brian with the A and the I reversed, and Genius is obvious... Make of that what you will.

In other news, I found out what Alexandra Morgan's been up to. A one-woman show called 'Sexagenarian'. https://vimeo.com/120994523 Still quite gorgeous, if i do say so myself

Yikes. Watch the segment from about :45 to :51, and you'll find the good doctor to be even creepier. After Alexandra admitted to Eugene in therapy that she had sex with a producer in exchange for Broadway tickets, he grew enraged and left the room. He returned a few minutes later with a proposition: terminate therapy and become lovers for 30 days. He said he could no longer be her therapist because he was falling in love with her.

Devoid of ANY ethics, despite whatever emotional turmoil he was causing someone else. And, by the way, Ms. Morgan seems a few slices of bread short of a loaf.
Logged
John Malone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 90



View Profile
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2015, 08:58:11 AM »

Sorry to confuse. I meant 45:00 to 50:00.
Logged
elnombre
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 484


View Profile
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2015, 09:01:49 AM »

why do so many threads here digress into auto tune  discussions?   

Because a small cadre of bores can't handle the fact that the effects and techniques used to record a bunch of 70+ year olds in 2015 are different than the ones used to record a bunch of 20 somethings 5 decades ago and feel the need to bring this up at every possible opportunity as if the music industry is going to adjust to their whims.
Logged
filledeplage
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3151


View Profile
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2015, 09:18:41 AM »


[/quote]
Yikes. Watch the segment from about :45 to :51, and you'll find the good doctor to be even creepier. After Alexandra admitted to Eugene in therapy that she had sex with a producer in exchange for Broadway tickets, he grew enraged and left the room. He returned a few minutes later with a proposition: terminate therapy and become lovers for 30 days. He said he could no longer be her therapist because he was falling in love with her.

Devoid of ANY ethics, despite whatever emotional turmoil he was causing someone else. And, by the way, Ms. Morgan seems a few slices of bread short of a loaf.
[/quote]

This indicates Landy "did" have ethics training.  If  Landy felt compelled to terminate his "therapy" with AM, then, it should have followed that at the first insinuation of Landy with Brian in a "music business relationship," he (Landy) should have been equally compelled to "terminate" that therapy relationship. 

Landy wasn't ignorant of the line of demarcation, so he couldn't "play dumb" but he was inconsistent with his personal application of his professional ethics requirements. He was "ethical" when he felt like it.
Logged
John Malone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 90



View Profile
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2015, 09:37:16 AM »


Yikes. Watch the segment from about :45 to :51, and you'll find the good doctor to be even creepier. After Alexandra admitted to Eugene in therapy that she had sex with a producer in exchange for Broadway tickets, he grew enraged and left the room. He returned a few minutes later with a proposition: terminate therapy and become lovers for 30 days. He said he could no longer be her therapist because he was falling in love with her.

Devoid of ANY ethics, despite whatever emotional turmoil he was causing someone else. And, by the way, Ms. Morgan seems a few slices of bread short of a loaf.
[/quote]

This indicates Landy "did" have ethics training.  If  Landy felt compelled to terminate his "therapy" with AM, then, it should have followed that at the first insinuation of Landy with Brian in a "music business relationship," he (Landy) should have been equally compelled to "terminate" that therapy relationship. 

Landy wasn't ignorant of the line of demarcation, so he couldn't "play dumb" but he was inconsistent with his personal application of his professional ethics requirements. He was "ethical" when he felt like it.
[/quote]

I think we agree. At least it sounds like it.

Being devoid of ethics means that, despite having ethics training, one chooses to ignore it. Ethics is much more than compliance. Just because it's technically compliant to terminate therapy before beginning a relationship doesn't mean it's ethical. This behavior can still cause emotional damage to the patient.

But, in the AM case, it sounds to me like the damage was already done, and the good doctor found her to be easy prey.
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2015, 09:44:46 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marylin's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean Marylin and I was following up my earlier point in relation to the second time Landy was employed, sorry for any confusion. I think Marylin was an angel for what she endured.
By 1983 Brian was a good 100 pounds overweight, had a major drug addiction, was hearing the voice of Phil Spector and his dead father in his head and never bathed because he was convinced that the taps would spout acid at him. When he wasn't being dragged off on tour he spent his days in a dogshit filled room, chain smoking and wishing he was dead. He needed to be commited to a Mental Insitution (forcibly if need be) for his own safety.
The fact that he was a rock star should never have had any bearing on his treatment. If that meant sitting out the 80s musically, so be it. Brian should have not been let near a piano for anything other than his own pleasure for a long time. Landy tied composing songs to Brian's treatment and used this to worm his way into Brian's professional life. Only once Brian was well or at least had his problems under control should the possiblity of being a Beach Boy again have even entered into the equation.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 10:08:28 AM by Mike's Beard » Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
filledeplage
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3151


View Profile
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2015, 09:53:23 AM »


Yikes. Watch the segment from about :45 to :51, and you'll find the good doctor to be even creepier. After Alexandra admitted to Eugene in therapy that she had sex with a producer in exchange for Broadway tickets, he grew enraged and left the room. He returned a few minutes later with a proposition: terminate therapy and become lovers for 30 days. He said he could no longer be her therapist because he was falling in love with her.

Devoid of ANY ethics, despite whatever emotional turmoil he was causing someone else. And, by the way, Ms. Morgan seems a few slices of bread short of a loaf.

This indicates Landy "did" have ethics training.  If  Landy felt compelled to terminate his "therapy" with AM, then, it should have followed that at the first insinuation of Landy with Brian in a "music business relationship," he (Landy) should have been equally compelled to "terminate" that therapy relationship. 

Landy wasn't ignorant of the line of demarcation, so he couldn't "play dumb" but he was inconsistent with his personal application of his professional ethics requirements. He was "ethical" when he felt like it.
[/quote]

I think we agree. At least it sounds like it.

Being devoid of ethics means that, despite having ethics training, one chooses to ignore it. Ethics is much more than compliance. Just because it's technically compliant to terminate therapy before beginning a relationship doesn't mean it's ethical. This behavior can still cause emotional damage to the patient.

But, in the AM case, it sounds to me like the damage was already done, and the good doctor found her to be easy prey.
[/quote]
John - I think we do agree. Of course I only know what I read that is credible, and I didn't know how much ethical training. Psychologists would have gotten when Landy got his training.  Now, it is more heavily taught and monitored.  Landy was a predator.  I hadn't seen the Sawyer interview for a long time.  But that he cut off his "therapy" relationship right away with AM, makes me impressed that he "mechanically" applied the ethical standards.  

Landy should have done the same with Brian, the second he crossed the line. It wasn't a gray area.  Landy absolutely knew where the line was, and cutting Brian off from his family (and disparaging them publicly) impresses me that he was threatened by transparency.  Reading that he wasn't an M.D. dispensing those meds is mind boggling.
Logged
Mikie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5887



View Profile
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2015, 09:53:48 AM »

Somebody needs to understand how to use the board functions (quotes, end quotes, replies, brackets, etc.).  What a mess.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 09:58:41 AM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5749



View Profile
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2015, 10:12:05 AM »

Brains is Brian with the A and the I reversed, and Genius is obvious... Make of that what you will.

In other news, I found out what Alexandra Morgan's been up to. A one-woman show called 'Sexagenarian'. https://vimeo.com/120994523 Still quite gorgeous, if i do say so myself

Two questions:

Is Alexandra Morgan the only female lyrical collaborator that Brian ever worked with (credited on original BW/BB material)? Excepting The Honeys; I'm referring to material released under the BW/BB banner.

And is the audience guy at 0:43 secretly a BB fan doing a tribute to the infamous Wendy cough?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 10:23:28 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Mikie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5887



View Profile
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2015, 10:21:37 AM »

By 1983 Brian was hearing the voice of Phil Spector and his dead father in his head and never bathed because he was convinced that the taps would spout acid at him.

This continued into the early 90's and may even continue to this day. Watch the Sawyer interview and Brian mentions hearing voices and seeing the Devil in the shower head. Schizophrenia. Paranoia, big destroya.
Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
The 4th Wilson Bro.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 227


View Profile
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2015, 10:25:26 AM »

IMO, any doctor with even a modicum of ethics would not have told Morgan he wanted to stop being her therapist because he was falling in love with her.  He would have stopped the therapy and immediately walked away entirely.
Logged
Debbie Keil-Leavitt
Guest
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2015, 10:27:54 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marylin's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean Marylin and I was following up my earlier point in relation to the second time Landy was employed, sorry for any confusion. I think Marylin was an angel for what she endured.
By 1983 Brian was a good 100 pounds overweight, had a major drug addiction, was hearing the voice of Phil Spector and his dead father in his head and never bathed because he was convinced that the taps would spout acid at him. When he wasn't being dragged off on tour he spent his days in a dogshit filled room, chain smoking and wishing he was dead. He needed to be commited to a Mental Insitution (forcibly if need be) for his own safety.
The fact that he was a rock star should never have had any bearing on his treatment. If that meant sitting out the 80s musically, so be it. Brian should have not been let near a piano for anything other than his own pleasure for a long time. Landy tied composing songs to Brian's treatment and used this to worm his way into Brian's professional life. Only once Brian was well or at least had his problems under control should the possiblity of being a Beach Boy again have even entered into the equation.

And where did you get all of this information?
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5749



View Profile
« Reply #94 on: March 11, 2015, 10:28:48 AM »

I feel like if Denny had lived, and had sobered up even somewhat, that he might have gone to find Brian and might have tried to kick the sh*t out of Landy for taking advantage of his bro.
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #95 on: March 11, 2015, 10:41:06 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.

I don't believe for a second that was Marylin's goal. And it was her who called him. There's no reason not to think she was entirely concerned for his health and the deterioration of their family life. With two daughters in the household, and some of the things that occured, I don't Marylin's plan was different from having her husband's health recovered.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean Marylin and I was following up my earlier point in relation to the second time Landy was employed, sorry for any confusion. I think Marylin was an angel for what she endured.
By 1983 Brian was a good 100 pounds overweight, had a major drug addiction, was hearing the voice of Phil Spector and his dead father in his head and never bathed because he was convinced that the taps would spout acid at him. When he wasn't being dragged off on tour he spent his days in a dogshit filled room, chain smoking and wishing he was dead. He needed to be commited to a Mental Insitution (forcibly if need be) for his own safety.
The fact that he was a rock star should never have had any bearing on his treatment. If that meant sitting out the 80s musically, so be it. Brian should have not been let near a piano for anything other than his own pleasure for a long time. Landy tied composing songs to Brian's treatment and used this to worm his way into Brian's professional life. Only once Brian was well or at least had his problems under control should the possiblity of being a Beach Boy again have even entered into the equation.

And where did you get all of this information?

Which part?
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Sound of Free
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 439


View Profile
« Reply #96 on: March 11, 2015, 10:50:58 AM »

A couple of people have brought up what I was thinking as I started to read this thread: One of the great "what ifs" in BW/BB history is what if Dr. Steve Schwartz hadn't been killed in 1977. It seemed like Brian was doing well with him. Does anyone "in the know" know that for sure.

Imagine what could have been if 1977 Brian had an ETHICAL doctor to help him work through his issues.
Logged
filledeplage
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3151


View Profile
« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2015, 11:08:11 AM »

IMO, any doctor with even a modicum of ethics would not have told Morgan he wanted to stop being her therapist because he was falling in love with her.  He would have stopped the therapy and immediately walked away entirely.
So long as Landy would have "referred her" to another therapist (or better, she would have found her own) there should not have been a problem.  Humans connect for all kinds of reasons.  And it isn't a bad thing, so long as the relationships are clear and there are "boundaries" that separate the two.  No problem if he has a relationship, so long as he isn't her therapist, simultaneously.  Here, one has to give the devil his due.  Here, Landy seems to be in the clear. 
Logged
RONDEMON
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 480



View Profile
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2015, 11:14:08 AM »

If that video above is correct that this is the same Alexandra Morgan we're talking about, then I think she's also been an actress in a bunch of obscure 70s films. According to these pics - she looks the same just older...

http://www.aveleyman.com/ActorCredit.aspx?ActorID=68493
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alexandra-Morgan-VINTAGE-Photo-First-Nudie-Musical-/300316632053
Logged
John Malone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 90



View Profile
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2015, 11:16:42 AM »

IMO, any doctor with even a modicum of ethics would not have told Morgan he wanted to stop being her therapist because he was falling in love with her.  He would have stopped the therapy and immediately walked away entirely.
So long as Landy would have "referred her" to another therapist (or better, she would have found her own) there should not have been a problem.  Humans connect for all kinds of reasons.  And it isn't a bad thing, so long as the relationships are clear and there are "boundaries" that separate the two.  No problem if he has a relationship, so long as he isn't her therapist, simultaneously.  Here, one has to give the devil his due.  Here, Landy seems to be in the clear. 

So using information gained in a doctor-patient relationship to snare the same woman puts him in the clear as long as he suspends treatment first? That would be like a medical doctor saying after an examination, "Hey you're kind of hot. I don't want to be your doctor anymore. Let's become lovers instead."
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.997 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!