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Author Topic: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong?  (Read 22619 times)
Mike's Beard
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« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2015, 03:11:17 PM »

I was at a Beach Boys convention with Landy in the early 90's. Landy was standing off to the side quiet and just observing. I walked up to him and thanked him for saving Brian's life and for "letting Brian out of his cage" for the event. I walked away and Landy was still standing by himself a good 10 minutes later. Musta been 100 people there and nobody was even acknowledging him.

Then I had a few beers with Steve McParland, Sean McCreavy, and other fans in the know and found out WHY nobody was talking to Landy. Man, did I feel out of touch at that point!


Knowing what you know now, do you wish you could go back in time to that moment and spit in the f*cker's face?
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« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2015, 03:12:19 PM »

Don't recall autotone on 'Brian Wilson'...you know the FIRST solo album ... back when Landy was around.  Thanks for getting this thread back on topic. Cool Guy

As there hasn't been a response to my querie YET...[nudging Howie again with a "Why...Or did she explain?"]  I only wish the Wilson family had come in and made the Landy family's life way, WAY worse...a whole LOT sooner.  Removing false credits from the music and album was small potatos wasn't it WS?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 03:17:38 PM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2015, 03:26:58 PM »

I think something called Melodyne was used to basically do what Autotune does, on the 88 album.

I heard that something was used on Orange Crate Art. If it was, the final product was still unfortunately pretty pitchy.
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« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2015, 03:32:45 PM »

why do so many threads here digress into auto tune  discussions?   
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« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2015, 04:00:41 PM »

I was at a Beach Boys convention with Landy in the early 90's. Landy was standing off to the side quiet and just observing. I walked up to him and thanked him for saving Brian's life and for "letting Brian out of his cage" for the event. I walked away and Landy was still standing by himself a good 10 minutes later. Musta been 100 people there and nobody was even acknowledging him.

Then I had a few beers with Steve McParland, Sean McCreavy, and other fans in the know and found out WHY nobody was talking to Landy. Man, did I feel out of touch at that point!


Knowing what you know now, do you wish you could go back in time to that moment and spit in the f*cker's face?

Tell you the truth I still have mixed feelings about it. If anything positive came out of Brian's relationship with Landy, it's that he did save his live. Literally saved his life, but in the mean time the result of the unnecessary and over-prescribed drugs which Landy gave to Brian will live in his brain 'till his dying day. But I also believe that Landy got Brian into physical and mental shape to write songs again. And even though Landy and his wife "contributed" to many of them, I know Brian wrote many on his own. I mean, they wrote a BOATLOAD of songs together, and it took a well-seasoned talented songwriter like Brian to write all those melodies and Landy (and Alexandria) might have contributed lyrics, but there's no way Landy had the talent and know-how to write that great music during the 80's & 90's. I'm not so sure Brian would have had that same daily regimen of writing songs as part of his therapy from anyone else, including a professional doctor. And the physical shape - some say he looked sickly on the cover of Pulse magazine, but man what exercise Landy put the man through to look like that after so much self abuse with food. Unarguably, Landy went overboard and got in the way of the '88 album and the Sweet Insanity album and later the Usher and Paley sessions, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't have even gotten to the solo album in 1988 without the encouragement and push from Landy. Landy pushed hard in support of Brian like Murry did, then eventually over-stepped his boundries (like Murry did) both for their self gratification. They got something out of it. Before Landy got hold of Brian, Brian was drinking, smoking, and snorting hog rails like there was no tomorrow, and if weren't for Landy and his unorthadox ways, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about Brian Wilson being here tomorrow.

I dunno. Does saving Brian's life outweigh the bad things that Landy did? Could any doctor worth his weight in gold have done the same thing Landy did? Could any doctor have had complete success the first time, without  having to come back to help the patient a second time? What did it take to do that? YOU make the call.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:24:20 PM by Mikie » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2015, 04:11:05 PM »

Tell you the truth I still have mixed feelings about it. If anything positive came out of Brian's relationship with Landy, it's that he did save his live. Literally saved his life, but in the mean time the unnecessary prescribed drugs which Brian took will live in his brain 'till his dying day. But I also believe that Landy got Brian into physical and mental shape to write songs again, even though Landy and his wife "contributed" to many of them. I mean, they wrote a LOT of songs together, and it took a well-seasoned songwriter like Brian to write all those songs. Landy (and Alexandria) might have contributed lyrics, but there's no way Landy had the talent and know-how to write that great music during the 80's & 90's. I'm not so sure Brian would have had that same daily regimen of writing songs that another doctor would have prescribed him. And the physical shape - some say he looked sickly on the cover of Pulse magazine, but man what exercise Landy put the man through to look like that after so much self abuse with food. Unarguably, Landy went overboard and got in the way of the '88 album and the Sweet Insanity album and later the Usher and Paley sessions, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't have even gotten to the solo album in 1988 without the encouragement and push from Landy. Landy pushed hard in support of Brian like Murry did, then eventually over-stepped his boundries (like Murry did) both for their self gratification. They got something out of it. Before Landy got hold of Brian, Brian was drinking, smoking, and snorting hog rails like there was no tomorrow, and if weren't for Landy and his unorthadox ways, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about Brian Wilson being here tomorrow.
I think Wilson would agree with you.  He doesn't seem to talk about Landy anymore...
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« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2015, 04:16:19 PM »

I read an interview with Brian a few years ago where he was asked about Landy and Brian said he misses him and wished he could talk to him.
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« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2015, 04:26:15 PM »

So...what you said to Landy was accurate Mikie.  But in saving Brian's life...and at least stalling the plunge 'til a better doctor figured out Brian's real situation...it would seem that Landy decided that Brian owed him his life.  False illusions of grandeur.  Landy needed a doctor too.  The wrong people were running the asylum.  And the costs?  In every sense the costs were way too heavy.

While it's easy to all-knowingly look back and crap on Landy...and he does/did deserve it...let's not lose sight of what had become of Brian BEFORE Landy ever entered into the picture...what the causes might have been...and who in and outside of the inner circle shared some degree of responsibility.  It isn't like Landy made Brian ill.  That was a pre-existing fact.  The 'guy' just kind of ended up keeping Brian floating in limbo.  And he benefitted greatly [and illegally] from doing so until he got caught.

Just pissing on Eugene is the easy and way too simple way out of this chapter.  He's only one of the 'bad guys'.
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By the way Mikie...I read that same article.  ONLY Brian would know what Landy really did for him deep down inside the confines of his innermost and private thoughts and recollections.  None of us will know...nor, I wouldn't think, can we even really guess.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:31:12 PM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2015, 04:31:48 PM »

I was at a Beach Boys convention with Landy in the early 90's. Landy was standing off to the side quiet and just observing. I walked up to him and thanked him for saving Brian's life and for "letting Brian out of his cage" for the event. I walked away and Landy was still standing by himself a good 10 minutes later. Musta been 100 people there and nobody was even acknowledging him.

Then I had a few beers with Steve McParland, Sean McCreavy, and other fans in the know and found out WHY nobody was talking to Landy. Man, did I feel out of touch at that point!


Knowing what you know now, do you wish you could go back in time to that moment and spit in the f*cker's face?

Tell you the truth I still have mixed feelings about it. If anything positive came out of Brian's relationship with Landy, it's that he did save his live. Literally saved his life, but in the mean time the result of the unnecessary and over-prescribed drugs which Landy gave to Brian will live in his brain 'till his dying day. But I also believe that Landy got Brian into physical and mental shape to write songs again. And even though Landy and his wife "contributed" to many of them, I know Brian wrote many on his own. I mean, they wrote a BOATLOAD of songs together, and it took a well-seasoned talented songwriter like Brian to write all those melodies and Landy (and Alexandria) might have contributed lyrics, but there's no way Landy had the talent and know-how to write that great music during the 80's & 90's. I'm not so sure Brian would have had that same daily regimen of writing songs as part of his therapy from anyone else, including a professional doctor. And the physical shape - some say he looked sickly on the cover of Pulse magazine, but man what exercise Landy put the man through to look like that after so much self abuse with food. Unarguably, Landy went overboard and got in the way of the '88 album and the Sweet Insanity album and later the Usher and Paley sessions, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't have even gotten to the solo album in 1988 without the encouragement and push from Landy. Landy pushed hard in support of Brian like Murry did, then eventually over-stepped his boundries (like Murry did) both for their self gratification. They got something out of it. Before Landy got hold of Brian, Brian was drinking, smoking, and snorting hog rails like there was no tomorrow, and if weren't for Landy and his unorthadox ways, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about Brian Wilson being here tomorrow.

I dunno. Does saving Brian's life outweigh the bad things that Landy did? Could any doctor worth his weight in gold have done the same thing Landy did? Could any doctor have had complete success the first time, without  having to come back to help the patient a second time? What did it take to do that? YOU make the call.

Wonder what would've happened, if say Landy was the doc who would've died in a rock climbing accident. Say around 1986 or so.

That way, Brian is rehabilitated with massive weight loss and off street drugs before the real, deep damage and sick and unethical crapola by Landy really started in earnest.

I suppose Landy would be thought of *relatively* more highly in that scenario in the history books. As much of a creep as Landy was, I do wonder the same things as you, Mikie. Not quite sure anyone else (or anyone else readily available/on the radar of the Wilson family) would've been able to save him at the time in the early 80s.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:35:24 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2015, 04:32:38 PM »

I read an interview with Brian a few years ago where he was asked about Landy and Brian said he misses him and wished he could talk to him.
Does anyone have any pictures of the man after his estrangement from BW?
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« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2015, 04:34:14 PM »

I read an interview with Brian a few years ago where he was asked about Landy and Brian said he misses him and wished he could talk to him.
Does anyone have any pictures of the man after his estrangement from BW?

I wonder if his mullet wilted almost instantly after BW left.
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« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2015, 04:44:25 PM »

Thomas seems to be an enabler, while Landy became a disabler.
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« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2015, 05:16:48 PM »

Check out the clip where Diane Sawyer got Landy for an interview. She asked a point blank question and Landy sat there looking like a deer in the headlights for what seemed like forever and couldn't answer.  Brian must have been hyped up on something as his face contorts like Mr. Ed when he talks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vhRkfFgj8

Many thanks for posting this Mikie. It is quite something.
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« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2015, 05:45:28 PM »

I was at a Beach Boys convention with Landy in the early 90's. Landy was standing off to the side quiet and just observing. I walked up to him and thanked him for saving Brian's life and for "letting Brian out of his cage" for the event. I walked away and Landy was still standing by himself a good 10 minutes later. Musta been 100 people there and nobody was even acknowledging him.

Then I had a few beers with Steve McParland, Sean McCreavy, and other fans in the know and found out WHY nobody was talking to Landy. Man, did I feel out of touch at that point!


Knowing what you know now, do you wish you could go back in time to that moment and spit in the f*cker's face?

Tell you the truth I still have mixed feelings about it. If anything positive came out of Brian's relationship with Landy, it's that he did save his live. Literally saved his life, but in the mean time the result of the unnecessary and over-prescribed drugs which Landy gave to Brian will live in his brain 'till his dying day. But I also believe that Landy got Brian into physical and mental shape to write songs again. And even though Landy and his wife "contributed" to many of them, I know Brian wrote many on his own. I mean, they wrote a BOATLOAD of songs together, and it took a well-seasoned talented songwriter like Brian to write all those melodies and Landy (and Alexandria) might have contributed lyrics, but there's no way Landy had the talent and know-how to write that great music during the 80's & 90's. I'm not so sure Brian would have had that same daily regimen of writing songs as part of his therapy from anyone else, including a professional doctor. And the physical shape - some say he looked sickly on the cover of Pulse magazine, but man what exercise Landy put the man through to look like that after so much self abuse with food. Unarguably, Landy went overboard and got in the way of the '88 album and the Sweet Insanity album and later the Usher and Paley sessions, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't have even gotten to the solo album in 1988 without the encouragement and push from Landy. Landy pushed hard in support of Brian like Murry did, then eventually over-stepped his boundries (like Murry did) both for their self gratification. They got something out of it. Before Landy got hold of Brian, Brian was drinking, smoking, and snorting hog rails like there was no tomorrow, and if weren't for Landy and his unorthadox ways, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about Brian Wilson being here tomorrow.

I dunno. Does saving Brian's life outweigh the bad things that Landy did? Could any doctor worth his weight in gold have done the same thing Landy did? Could any doctor have had complete success the first time, without  having to come back to help the patient a second time? What did it take to do that? YOU make the call.

Interesting, Mikie. Hard to tell if he did more harm than good, or if other doctors (namely, those at UCLA) could have accomplished better results without the side effects. One point of what you say reminds me of the Wilson Project book, when Usher says that Landy was worse than Murry because at least the latter had Brian's best interest in mind.
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« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2015, 06:58:40 PM »

I was at a Beach Boys convention with Landy in the early 90's. Landy was standing off to the side quiet and just observing. I walked up to him and thanked him for saving Brian's life and for "letting Brian out of his cage" for the event. I walked away and Landy was still standing by himself a good 10 minutes later. Musta been 100 people there and nobody was even acknowledging him.

Then I had a few beers with Steve McParland, Sean McCreavy, and other fans in the know and found out WHY nobody was talking to Landy. Man, did I feel out of touch at that point!


Knowing what you know now, do you wish you could go back in time to that moment and spit in the f*cker's face?

Tell you the truth I still have mixed feelings about it. If anything positive came out of Brian's relationship with Landy, it's that he did save his live. Literally saved his life, but in the mean time the result of the unnecessary and over-prescribed drugs which Landy gave to Brian will live in his brain 'till his dying day. But I also believe that Landy got Brian into physical and mental shape to write songs again. And even though Landy and his wife "contributed" to many of them, I know Brian wrote many on his own. I mean, they wrote a BOATLOAD of songs together, and it took a well-seasoned talented songwriter like Brian to write all those melodies and Landy (and Alexandria) might have contributed lyrics, but there's no way Landy had the talent and know-how to write that great music during the 80's & 90's. I'm not so sure Brian would have had that same daily regimen of writing songs as part of his therapy from anyone else, including a professional doctor. And the physical shape - some say he looked sickly on the cover of Pulse magazine, but man what exercise Landy put the man through to look like that after so much self abuse with food. Unarguably, Landy went overboard and got in the way of the '88 album and the Sweet Insanity album and later the Usher and Paley sessions, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't have even gotten to the solo album in 1988 without the encouragement and push from Landy. Landy pushed hard in support of Brian like Murry did, then eventually over-stepped his boundries (like Murry did) both for their self gratification. They got something out of it. Before Landy got hold of Brian, Brian was drinking, smoking, and snorting hog rails like there was no tomorrow, and if weren't for Landy and his unorthadox ways, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about Brian Wilson being here tomorrow.

I dunno. Does saving Brian's life outweigh the bad things that Landy did? Could any doctor worth his weight in gold have done the same thing Landy did? Could any doctor have had complete success the first time, without  having to come back to help the patient a second time? What did it take to do that? YOU make the call.

Interesting, Mikie. Hard to tell if he did more harm than good, or if other doctors (namely, those at UCLA) could have accomplished better results without the side effects. One point of what you say reminds me of the Wilson Project book, when Usher says that Landy was worse than Murry because at least the latter had Brian's best interest in mind.

I own the Wilson Project book after having bought it in 2011 after reading AGD's comments about it. What does it say about the relationship between BW and DrL? Have you been aware of a situation of elder abuse (isolation, exploitation, fear for financial motives)? I saw it in my family years ago. The Wilson/Landy situation was exactly the same thing. Except, instead of a vulnerable senior citizen, it was a vulnerable person with psychiatric problems.  The contents within those pages will make you shudder in disgust.

I am also reminded that BW's passive/aggressive behavior can also play an unhealthy role. The Landy/Wilson partnership was likely a co-dependent one to a degree...in that BW enjoyed Landy's ability to screen unwanted confrontations and interactions.  But again, someone with Landy's background and training should have spotted that. In the end, it was hubris and greed that brought down the good doctor. But, Gary Usher also share some of the credit for bringing this ugly 1986-1987 period to light. I'm glad that Melinda Wilson was able to help wrestle it all to a finish in late 1991.
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« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2015, 07:05:00 PM »

We like to couch the whole Beach Boys saga in "Heroes and Villains" terms. We even take up camps and argue for our favorites. I have favorite and least favorite members of the band, but I see all of them as talented but flawed individuals.  Maybe Cousin Mike is a bit of a jerk, but he kept the band on the road when Brian retreated and genuinely loves the music he made with Cousin Bri… and he probably loves Cousin Bri.  From a distance. Daddy Murry was an abusive father who would probably be in jail in this day and age. But in his own twisted way, he was doing what he thought was best for his sons by pushing them hard. None of these people are villains, to me.

The one person, in all of this, that I cannot muster up the slightest degree of empathy for is Eugene Landy. Oh, but he saved Brian's life! Sure, but any number of capable and decent psychiatric doctors could have done the same.  And a decent doctor would have realized that he was in a position of influence over a vulnerable patient, and would have respected that position enough not to do harm. But Landy wasn't a decent doctor. He didn't respect the position he was in. Not only did he NOT protect his patient, but he imprisoned him,  abused him, manipulated him, stole from him, drugged him and drug him through hell, and then, when that wasn't enough, he creatively, emotionally and spiritually raped that patient.

But, he saved Brian's life! Sure. As any talented doctor would. And, for his own moment of reflected glory, he nearly destroyed him, again. That makes him the villain in my book.



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« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2015, 07:59:19 PM »

Interesting, Mikie. Hard to tell if he did more harm than good, or if other doctors (namely, those at UCLA) could have accomplished better results without the side effects. One point of what you say reminds me of the Wilson Project book, when Usher says that Landy was worse than Murry because at least the latter had Brian's best interest in mind.

1. Every Brian Wilson fan should read the Wilson Project book(s) by S. McParland. Very enlightening about the Wilson/Landy relationship up to about 1990/'91.

2. The doctor who started to help Brian before falling to his death. Very unfortunate. What kind of progress would have been made there we'll never know.

3. I often wonder what woulda/coulda happened with those UCLA doctors. Melinda Wilson brought it up during the Larry King interview and rightfully so. UCLA is a hop, skip, and a backflip from Bellagio Road in Bel-Aire. Marilyn has been defended. "She was too young to understand Brian's mental condition". And....."Brian's mental condition was not fully understood by the family and general public in the late 60's/early '70's." But something was very obviously wrong, you know? Don't you think doctors at one of the most prestigious medicals schools in the United States would have a clue? I believe so. But who am I to second-guess Brian's wife?

Until finally Marilyn decided it was time to call Landy in late 1975. And Landy came over and coaxed Brian out of his dark closet. And even then, Brian was still sneaking large amounts of coke under Landy's nose during his first watch.
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« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2015, 08:08:36 PM »

We can be thankful that Brian was born a decade later as if he had shown the same type of behavior in an earlier time period, he might have been lobotomized.  Mental health has come a long way in the past 60 years or so.  And even had he still been born when he was but hadn't been as high profile, he might have never recovered the way he has.  It's sad when you think about all the really terrible things he had been through.  I'm really glad he's still with us and that he's healthy.  It's such an incredible story.
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« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2015, 08:41:16 PM »

3. I often wonder what woulda/coulda happened with those UCLA doctors. Melinda Wilson brought it up during the Larry King interview and rightfully so. UCLA is a hop, skip, and a backflip from Bellagio Road in Bel-Aire. Marilyn has been defended. "She was too young to understand Brian's mental condition". And....."Brian's mental condition was not fully understood by the family and general public in the late 60's/early '70's." But something was very obviously wrong, you know? Don't you think doctors at one of the most prestigious medicals schools in the United States would have a clue? I believe so. But who am I to second-guess Brian's wife?
The video of this interview is down...   Sad  Could someone post it back up on YouTube?
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« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2015, 10:17:45 PM »

I often wonder if Carl ever regretted bringing Landy back into Brian's life? I guess the family thought "nothing else has worked, so let's bring Landy back"...and originally it was kind of implied that after 2..3....4 years...how many years?...that Brian would have his independence. At some point it became clear that Landy was never going to leave, and finally legal action was taken.  I still think the stress and strain of this situation took a few years off Carl's life.
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Ron
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« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2015, 12:49:44 AM »

A lot of good points raised in this thread, but the one of the things that makes me think everything was carefully, consciously planned by Landy was Brian's will - modified so Landy would get pretty much everything. That's not something you improvise. That's something you really have to think about.

It also implies that Landy was considering outliving Brian.

What a striking observation.  I never thought of that!

Think about that for a minute.  When Landy did that, he had it in his head that Brian would eventually die, and Landy would get the money out of all of it...

Guess Brian got the last laugh there.
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Ron
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« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2015, 12:54:56 AM »

I read an interview with Brian a few years ago where he was asked about Landy and Brian said he misses him and wished he could talk to him.

Melinda stated in an interview back around the time Landy died that Brian still feared (before Landy died) that Landy would show up at his door and hurt him in some way.  According to her Brian was terrified of him and didn't want to say anything bad about him, for fear of retaliation.
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2015, 12:59:13 AM »


I dunno. Does saving Brian's life outweigh the bad things that Landy did? Could any doctor worth his weight in gold have done the same thing Landy did? Could any doctor have had complete success the first time, without  having to come back to help the patient a second time? What did it take to do that? YOU make the call.

Any team of decent, professional doctors could have done what Landy achieved without glomming their way into the person's life the way he did.
Yes it's easy to criticise now but in the early 80s it seems Brian's family were unwilling to face the ugly truth in that he needed to be commited. Getting Landy back in was the 'quick fix' solution. Landy got Brian off the coke, slimmed him down and got him writing & recording again. Alas, he also turned Brian into his own personal zombie and human cash cow, stripping Brian of his ability to think for himself and making him a human puppet for Landy's own selfish needs and desires. And by the end of his reign Brian was so hopped up on perscription drugs he'd already suffered a mini stroke and was close to having one that would have (a) killed him or (b) reduced him to a vegetable. Just so Landy could keep him under his control.
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Ron
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« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2015, 01:05:24 AM »

You have to think, who were the major players in all of this at the time?  I don't know much about Marilyn but what kind of training in psychiatry did she have?  Not much I would assume.  I would also assume that Carl and Brian's parents most certainly didn't know anything about it.

They probably had somebody they trusted suggest Dr. Landy to them and they thought he was a doctor so he'll take care of it.

Really, my family wouldn't be able to do any better... and we're 35 years down the line from where the Wilsons were way back then.  These psychological issues aren't easily treated, and it's hard for a family dealing with something like that to even know what to do or who to work with. 

The blame in all of this has to go back to Landy in any scenario, he did demonstrably unethical things regarding his patient.  Brian's family did what most families would do even today but especially back then: make a bunch of mistakes, enable him, trust doctors who may or may not know what they're doing, get disgusted with the whole situation, ignore the situation, etc. 
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Mike's Beard
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« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2015, 01:13:15 AM »

True but I don't think it helped that people always seemed to have this ultimate goal to get Brian making music again ASAP. That should have never been a factor in getting Brian well again.
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