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Author Topic: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong?  (Read 18880 times)
Mikie
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« Reply #200 on: March 13, 2015, 04:09:10 PM »

I think the idea that Landy or Morgan contributed much of substance to the lyrics on BW88 is laughable.

How do you know that?  Looking forward to your response.

Meanwhile, it's known that a couple of Landy's credits were rescinded before the re-release of the Brian Wilson '88 on CD (Rhino). I noticed that Morgan has been removed from the Love & Mercy credits. So obviously some of the credits were B.S. I guess the publishing company knows who wrote what/when and who didn't.  Not sure Brian knows - he folded like a wet noodle in court concerning the Mike Love Sea Of Tunes lyrics. But I don't think the general public knows who actually wrote what. You can get writing credit for only contributing two words, so.......

Not just a couple. All of Landy and Morgan's songwriting credits were removed. I'm not saying that's accurate or correct, either.

I also didn't say that I knew anything about the authorship of those songs. Please note that I began my post with the words "I think."

But given Landy's desire to be credited for everything, and to insert himself into every part of Brian's life, I think the idea that he truly co-wrote Brian's best songs of the period is nuts. There were reports from the sessions that Landy would try to rewrite lyrics to songs on the fly -- and there are extant boots of BW88 tunes with alternate, worse lyrics.

I've also seen the alternate lyrics to most of those songs, and it's not surprising that some were changed by Landy or to appease Landy. Some were lame before (or just used for demo purposes) but it seems like for the most part the lyrics were improved for the released versions.

Also, check out the differences between the liners for the first issue and the re-issue. The only mention of Landy or Morgan on the re-issue liners, including song credits, were for Landy as "Executive Producer". That's it! The producers of the re-issue made sure 99% of Landy's credits were removed. Somebody must know the truth here!

Song Credits - BRIAN WILSON '88

Side A
 
1. "Love and Mercy"   Brian Wilson/Eugene Landy/Alexandra Morgan 2:52
2. "Walkin' the Line"   Wilson/Landy/Nick Laird-Clowes 2:37
3. "Melt Away"   Wilson/Landy 2:58
4. "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long"   Wilson/Landy 3:15
5. "Little Children"   Wilson 1:48
6. "One for the Boys"   Wilson 1:47
7. "There's So Many"   Wilson/Landy/Morgan 2:46

Side B
 
1. "Night Time"   Wilson/Landy/Morgan/Andy Paley 3:34
2. "Let it Shine"   Wilson/Landy/MorganJeff Lynne 3:57
3. "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight"   Wilson/Paley/Andy Dean 3:05
4. "Rio Grande"   Wilson/Paley 8:12

Song Credits - BRIAN WILSON '88 CD (REISSUE)

1. Love And Mercy
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

2. Walkin’ The Line
(Written by Brian Wilson and Nick Laird-Clowes) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI) and EMI Music Ltd (PRS)
Produced by Brian Wilson

3. Melt Away
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

4. Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

5. Little Children
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

6. One For The Boys
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson

7. There’s So Many
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

8. Night Time
(Written by Brian Wilson and Andy Paley) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI) WB Music Corp. obo Twilite Tunes (ASCAP)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

9. Let It Shine
(Written by Brian Wilson and Jeff Lynne) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI), SBK April Music (ASCAP)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Jeff Lynne

10. Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight
(Written by Brian Wilson, Andy Paley and Andy Dean) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson
Co-Produced by Andy Paley

11. Rio Grande
(Written by Brian Wilson and Andy Paley) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Lenny Waronker
Co-Produced by Andy Paley

Alexandra Morgan also had songwriter credits for "Being With The One You Love" and also "In My Car" and "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car".

http://albumlinernotes.com/Brian_Wilson__Reissue_.html
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 04:10:36 PM by Mikie » Logged

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« Reply #201 on: March 13, 2015, 04:12:22 PM »

I think the idea that Landy or Morgan contributed much of substance to the lyrics on BW88 is laughable.

How do you know that?  Looking forward to your response.

Meanwhile, it's known that a couple of Landy's credits were rescinded before the re-release of the Brian Wilson '88 on CD (Rhino). I noticed that Morgan has been removed from the Love & Mercy credits. So obviously some of the credits were B.S. I guess the publishing company knows who wrote what/when and who didn't.  Not sure Brian knows - he folded like a wet noodle in court concerning the Mike Love Sea Of Tunes lyrics. But I don't think the general public knows who actually wrote what. You can get writing credit for only contributing two words, so.......

Not just a couple. All of Landy and Morgan's songwriting credits were removed. I'm not saying that's accurate or correct, either.

I also didn't say that I knew anything about the authorship of those songs. Please note that I began my post with the words "I think."

But given Landy's desire to be credited for everything, and to insert himself into every part of Brian's life, I think the idea that he truly co-wrote Brian's best songs of the period is nuts. There were reports from the sessions that Landy would try to rewrite lyrics to songs on the fly -- and there are extant boots of BW88 tunes with alternate, worse lyrics.

I've also seen the alternate lyrics to most of those songs, and it's not surprising that some were changed by Landy or to appease Landy. Some were lame before (or just used for demo purposes) but it seems like for the most part the lyrics were improved for the released versions.

Also, check out the differences between the liners for the first issue and the re-issue. The only mention of Landy or Morgan on the re-issue liners, including song credits, were for Landy as "Executive Producer". That's it! The producers of the re-issue made sure 99% of Landy's credits were removed. Somebody must know the truth here!

Song Credits - BRIAN WILSON '88

Side A
 
1. "Love and Mercy"   Brian Wilson/Eugene Landy/Alexandra Morgan 2:52
2. "Walkin' the Line"   Wilson/Landy/Nick Laird-Clowes 2:37
3. "Melt Away"   Wilson/Landy 2:58
4. "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long"   Wilson/Landy 3:15
5. "Little Children"   Wilson 1:48
6. "One for the Boys"   Wilson 1:47
7. "There's So Many"   Wilson/Landy/Morgan 2:46

Side B
 
1. "Night Time"   Wilson/Landy/Morgan/Andy Paley 3:34
2. "Let it Shine"   Wilson/Landy/MorganJeff Lynne 3:57
3. "Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight"   Wilson/Paley/Andy Dean 3:05
4. "Rio Grande"   Wilson/Paley 8:12

Song Credits - BRIAN WILSON '88 CD (REISSUE)

1. Love And Mercy
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

2. Walkin’ The Line
(Written by Brian Wilson and Nick Laird-Clowes) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI) and EMI Music Ltd (PRS)
Produced by Brian Wilson

3. Melt Away
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

4. Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

5. Little Children
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

6. One For The Boys
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson

7. There’s So Many
(Written by Brian Wilson) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

8. Night Time
(Written by Brian Wilson and Andy Paley) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI) WB Music Corp. obo Twilite Tunes (ASCAP)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Russ Titelman

9. Let It Shine
(Written by Brian Wilson and Jeff Lynne) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI), SBK April Music (ASCAP)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Jeff Lynne

10. Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight
(Written by Brian Wilson, Andy Paley and Andy Dean) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson
Co-Produced by Andy Paley

11. Rio Grande
(Written by Brian Wilson and Andy Paley) © 1988 Beach Bum Music (BMI)
Produced by Brian Wilson and Lenny Waronker
Co-Produced by Andy Paley

Alexandra Morgan also had songwriter credits for "Being With The One You Love" and also "In My Car" and "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car".

http://albumlinernotes.com/Brian_Wilson__Reissue_.html

Who wrote the lyrics to "Save the Day"? Those have to be the worst lyrics I've ever heard on a Landy-era Brian song, released or otherwise.
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« Reply #202 on: March 13, 2015, 04:29:10 PM »

"Save The Day" from Sweet Insanity?  Sure looks like Landy had his hand in those lyrics!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 07:42:00 PM by Mikie » Logged

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« Reply #203 on: March 13, 2015, 04:36:41 PM »

"Save The Day" from Sweet Insanity?  Sure looks like Landy had is hand in those lyrics!

I'd assume you're right.

"Lennon said it best... give peace a chance"

Blechhh! Almost sounds like Brian was channeling Mike with his mega-corporate Radio Shack baseball cap ironically singing Lennon's anti-possesion anthem "Imagine".
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« Reply #204 on: March 13, 2015, 04:58:32 PM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.
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« Reply #205 on: March 13, 2015, 05:00:11 PM »

And yes, the most obvious (and awful) Landy / Morgan lyrics are on Sweet Insanity. Save the Day, Brian, you name it. Ugh.
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« Reply #206 on: March 13, 2015, 05:19:52 PM »

I wonder if his mullet wilted almost instantly after BW leftthis small text is here to ensure I, runnersdialzero, have modified this quote

Even after Landy's passing, a mullet that diabolical cannot wilt. It cannot die.

You still don't get it, do you?

It will find you. That's what it does. That's all it does.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 05:23:40 PM by runnersdialzero » Logged

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« Reply #207 on: March 13, 2015, 05:25:39 PM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

Thanks, Wirestone.  That's how I remember the lyrics for the boot and Sweet Insanity stuff, but don't have access to it now.  Full of Landy-isms...  I certainly have no problem with the lyrics Brian uses for "Love & Mercy" post-Landy and I don't remember objecting to the lyrics of it at the time - very sweet and heart-felt. I have no idea what happened with the credits removal, but we might imagine, given the ethical and possibly legal repercussions of what he pulled before he was dis-barred and removed from Brian's life.
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« Reply #208 on: March 13, 2015, 05:51:32 PM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.
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« Reply #209 on: March 13, 2015, 06:06:55 PM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

Actually I thought it was the opposite for BW 88 - there's early demos and alternate versions and then there's the released songs with Landy credited on the record/liners. Now if you're talking about Sweet Insanity, it seems there's an early version of that album (i.e. Concert Tonight/Someone To Love, Let's Do It Again/Black Widow, Water Builds Up,  and others) with songs of inferior sound quality, then the 'finalized' version that was ripped off from the studio. You might be right though, Wirestone. Somebody closer to it might confirm - I'd like to know myself. The first boot of Sweet Insanity that I heard in the early 90's was the clean-sounding releasable version on cassette, then I heard a few of the earlier versions of the same songs a little later on.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

Sounds logical. They probably just wanted to wash their hands of it at that point, and of course obtain 100% of the royalties/residuals.

From Wikipedia (where everything is completely accurate) "Wilson ordered two conditions of his own: that Landy would be appointed Executive Producer and Business Manager, and that he would be allowed to work at his own pace. Wilson proceeded to record a full album composed largely of new material while working mainly with Andy Paley, Eugene Landy & wife Alexandra Morgan, and a few other guest musicians".

Then later the credits were removed from the songs that they supposedly worked on! Ha Ha!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 07:23:46 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #210 on: March 13, 2015, 06:09:34 PM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.

I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).
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« Reply #211 on: March 13, 2015, 06:13:43 PM »

True or false:

The lyrics to "Smart Girls" were written by Brian Wilson.
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« Reply #212 on: March 13, 2015, 06:17:03 PM »

Quote
Actually I thought it was the opposite for BW 88 - there's early demos and alternate versions and then there's the released songs with Landy credited on the record/liners.

Landy was credited on the release, but many of the  earlier lyrics were (for lack of  better way of putting it) 'Landy-fied'. I think 'There's So Many' was an exception, though...that may be the most Brian song out of them all. If those were Landy's lyrics (and I doubt it), then he did a bang-up imitation of Brian's lyrical style.

Still think Gary Usher got gypped on the credit for 'Walking the Line', though.

As for 'Smart Girls', well...I don't know the details on that one, but to my ears it always sounded like Brian taking the piss out of the song. I've always kind of looked at it as a parody...much less painful that way!
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« Reply #213 on: March 13, 2015, 06:19:55 PM »

True or false:

The lyrics to "Smart Girls" were written by Brian Wilson.

False
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« Reply #214 on: March 13, 2015, 06:37:02 PM »

Flashback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUfPvSvbhJA.
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« Reply #215 on: March 13, 2015, 06:45:50 PM »

Brian & Alexandra were watching Yo MTV Raps one day...and the rest is history.

On the topic of lyrics, I wonder why B.W. took out the words "sweet insanity" on the Gettin' in Over My Head version of Rainbow Eyes. There's some lines excised/changed on Make a Wish, too.
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« Reply #216 on: March 13, 2015, 07:19:18 PM »

True or false:

The lyrics to "Smart Girls" were written by Brian Wilson.

False

Correcto mundo!

How about "Country Feelin'" and "Daddy's Little Girl"?  Wilson or Landy?
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« Reply #217 on: March 13, 2015, 07:29:06 PM »

Quote
Actually I thought it was the opposite for BW 88 - there's early demos and alternate versions and then there's the released songs with Landy credited on the record/liners.

Landy was credited on the release, but many of the  earlier lyrics were (for lack of  better way of putting it) 'Landy-fied'. I think 'There's So Many' was an exception, though...that may be the most Brian song out of them all. If those were Landy's lyrics (and I doubt it), then he did a bang-up imitation of Brian's lyrical style.

Still think Gary Usher got gypped on the credit for 'Walking the Line', though.

As for 'Smart Girls', well...I don't know the details on that one, but to my ears it always sounded like Brian taking the piss out of the song. I've always kind of looked at it as a parody...much less painful that way!

I always thought the original Brian lyric for There's So Many were those of the demo version.
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« Reply #218 on: March 13, 2015, 07:32:47 PM »

Quote
Actually I thought it was the opposite for BW 88 - there's early demos and alternate versions and then there's the released songs with Landy credited on the record/liners.

Landy was credited on the release, but many of the  earlier lyrics were (for lack of  better way of putting it) 'Landy-fied'. I think 'There's So Many' was an exception, though...that may be the most Brian song out of them all. If those were Landy's lyrics (and I doubt it), then he did a bang-up imitation of Brian's lyrical style.

Still think Gary Usher got gypped on the credit for 'Walking the Line', though.

As for 'Smart Girls', well...I don't know the details on that one, but to my ears it always sounded like Brian taking the piss out of the song. I've always kind of looked at it as a parody...much less painful that way!

I always thought the original Brian lyric for There's So Many were those of the demo version.

Yeah, I was referring to the demo version too, although I have a strong doubt that Landy did too much to the finished one.
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« Reply #219 on: March 14, 2015, 03:08:49 AM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.

I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).

The problem with the reissue mixes was down to the fact there is no single, banded & sequenced master. As Mark explained at the time, the songs were stored individually on racks, and almost inevitably, wrong mixes were pulled.

As for pulled credits, Landy's on the 1985 album reissue were removed after negotiations involving monetary recompense. I'd assume the same applied to Brian's first solo album credits.
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« Reply #220 on: March 14, 2015, 06:31:06 AM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.

With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.

I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).

The problem with the reissue mixes was down to the fact there is no single, banded & sequenced master. As Mark explained at the time, the songs were stored individually on racks, and almost inevitably, wrong mixes were pulled.

As for pulled credits, Landy's on the 1985 album reissue were removed after negotiations involving monetary recompense. I'd assume the same applied to Brian's first solo album credits.

Thanks for the info, AGD.

Regarding Landy's credits being bought out, I suppose that would make him and Charles Manson the only known cowriters in the band's catalog who have their names missing from the credits of songs they actually contributed to, due to having been bought off? It always strikes me is weird that that can happen, since, while I completely understand the band wanting to watch its hands of those people, it's not accurate in terms of who actually contributed, in some fashion, to the songs.
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« Reply #221 on: March 14, 2015, 06:33:09 AM »


That's the most "normal" Brian interview I have seen during that time period. He seems relaxed, and doesn't have many of the Landy-induced tics and mannerisms that were sadly common then.
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« Reply #222 on: March 14, 2015, 06:46:35 AM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.
With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.
I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).
The problem with the reissue mixes was down to the fact there is no single, banded & sequenced master. As Mark explained at the time, the songs were stored individually on racks, and almost inevitably, wrong mixes were pulled.

As for pulled credits, Landy's on the 1985 album reissue were removed after negotiations involving monetary recompense. I'd assume the same applied to Brian's first solo album credits.

Thanks for the info, AGD.

Regarding Landy's credits being bought out, I suppose that would make him and Charles Manson the only known cowriters in the band's catalog who have their names missing from the credits of songs they actually contributed to, due to having been bought off? It always strikes me is weird that that can happen, since, while I completely understand the band wanting to watch its hands of those people, it's not accurate in terms of who actually contributed, in some fashion, to the songs.
Century Deprived - there might have been a lot of factors for different reasons that the authorship was bought out.  Manson reportedly intimidated ( an understatement) Dennis/and or the band, for recognition and publicity. 

Landy's work might not have been his actual work but his scheming and more subtle intimidation and crossing the line, professionally.

Not all work has authorship credit if it is a "work for hire" in which case the boss/owner owns the work or the invention.

We don't know all the factors that led to those decisions, but perhaps "throwing money at the problem" disconnected the relationships which was essential to cut the ties as between and among the two charlatans. 

This band, with a public "wholesome" image doesn't need to be tied to murderers and "unprofessional professionals."
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #223 on: March 14, 2015, 06:52:59 AM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.
With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.
I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).
The problem with the reissue mixes was down to the fact there is no single, banded & sequenced master. As Mark explained at the time, the songs were stored individually on racks, and almost inevitably, wrong mixes were pulled.

As for pulled credits, Landy's on the 1985 album reissue were removed after negotiations involving monetary recompense. I'd assume the same applied to Brian's first solo album credits.

Thanks for the info, AGD.

Regarding Landy's credits being bought out, I suppose that would make him and Charles Manson the only known cowriters in the band's catalog who have their names missing from the credits of songs they actually contributed to, due to having been bought off? It always strikes me is weird that that can happen, since, while I completely understand the band wanting to watch its hands of those people, it's not accurate in terms of who actually contributed, in some fashion, to the songs.
Century Deprived - there might have been a lot of factors for different reasons that the authorship was bought out.  Manson reportedly intimidated ( an understatement) Dennis/and or the band, for recognition and publicity.  

Landy's work might not have been his actual work but his scheming and more subtle intimidation and crossing the line, professionally.

Not all work has authorship credit if it is a "work for hire" in which case the boss/owner owns the work or the invention.

We don't know all the factors that led to those decisions, but perhaps "throwing money at the problem" disconnected the relationships which was essential to cut the ties as between and among the two charlatans.  

This band, with a public "wholesome" image doesn't need to be tied to murderers and "unprofessional professionals."

Absolutely understood, and by no means was I trying to come off as judgmental or contrarian about those decisions that were made. They make perfect sense, or at least they make perfect sense to me, even with my limited knowledge of not being an insider. I was just pointing out that is an odd and unusual situation, that a person could contribute something to a song (or presumably a movie), but not be credited due to a payout. I imagine it may happen more often then I realize, and probably has happened many times outside of this band, but I hadn't heard of the practice of it until this band.

And yes, regarding Manson and Landy… Charlatans they were indeed.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 06:54:29 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
filledeplage
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« Reply #224 on: March 14, 2015, 07:04:07 AM »

My memory of BW88 is actually that the booted lyrics are the Landy-ized ones. That is, the producers recorded them to appease him, but they made sure to use the better, earlier versions when compiling the final album. According to the Tim White book, Gene remixed the entire album, too, but his work was rejected.

As for the credits removal, I tend to believe it was because Brian and Melinda reached an agreement with Landy and Morgan to give up their interest in Brian's solo songs. I would assume they paid them, too.
With Landy going in and tinkering and trying to make remixes, and the back-and-forth hot mess of choosing/rejecting/re-choosing mixes, I wonder if that led to the presumable vault master tape disarray which caused multiple wrong mixes to be used on the BW88 2000 reissue? Anyone? That would seem to make sense.
I'm sure it contributed. IIRC, only two mixes were incorrect, though -- Melt Away, which was missing a vocal on the tag, and Let It Shine, which supposedly sounded different (I could never tell).
The problem with the reissue mixes was down to the fact there is no single, banded & sequenced master. As Mark explained at the time, the songs were stored individually on racks, and almost inevitably, wrong mixes were pulled.

As for pulled credits, Landy's on the 1985 album reissue were removed after negotiations involving monetary recompense. I'd assume the same applied to Brian's first solo album credits.

Thanks for the info, AGD.

Regarding Landy's credits being bought out, I suppose that would make him and Charles Manson the only known cowriters in the band's catalog who have their names missing from the credits of songs they actually contributed to, due to having been bought off? It always strikes me is weird that that can happen, since, while I completely understand the band wanting to watch its hands of those people, it's not accurate in terms of who actually contributed, in some fashion, to the songs.
Century Deprived - there might have been a lot of factors for different reasons that the authorship was bought out.  Manson reportedly intimidated ( an understatement) Dennis/and or the band, for recognition and publicity.  

Landy's work might not have been his actual work but his scheming and more subtle intimidation and crossing the line, professionally.

Not all work has authorship credit if it is a "work for hire" in which case the boss/owner owns the work or the invention.

We don't know all the factors that led to those decisions, but perhaps "throwing money at the problem" disconnected the relationships which was essential to cut the ties as between and among the two charlatans.  

This band, with a public "wholesome" image doesn't need to be tied to murderers and "unprofessional professionals."

Absolutely understood, and by no means was I trying to come off as judgmental or contrarian about those decisions that were made. They make perfect sense, or at least they make perfect sense to me, even with my limited knowledge of not being an insider. I was just pointing out that is an odd and unusual situation, that a person could contribute something to a song (or presumably a movie), but not be credited due to a payout. I imagine it may happen more often then I realize, and probably has happened many times outside of this band, but I hadn't heard of the practice of it until this band.

And yes, regarding Manson and Landy… Charlatans they were indeed.
Century Deprived - I think we are on the same page; I didn't think it was judgmental.  And those are pretty established concepts, "work for hire" or "independent contractor" to "perform work in behalf of another."  But I wouldn't have known either if I had not taken classes in that area.  And it is doubtful that this is the only band that has arrived at such arrangements.  Both decisions, wise, for the business to move on after a disaster.  We only grow from our mistakes. 
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