A Carl Conversation 1974

[Pretty Funky]

'crumpled on the floor with his back up against the wall, his head tilted to the side, eyes rolled back.'

Could be Carl, Dennis or anyone whacked out on booze and/or drugs really.

[Steve Latshaw]

Let me put this another way. I'm calling bullshit on this.

[elnombre]

It's the bitterness that doesn't ring true to me. From every other account I've heard of Carl encounters he seemed like one of the least bitter people around.

[Micha]

I never met Carl, but my impression I got from seeing him in interviews is that he was someone who kept a lot bubbling under. I don't say this story ^ is true, might still be bull, but it could be that the guy met Carl at a moment when Carl was contemplating his own life, and Carl asked him a question he had just asked himself without finding an answer. And at that moment his dissatisfaction with his life popped to the surface. Everybody's dissatisfied with his own life at some point I guess.

A few days ago I was thinking how Carl may have felt in 75-76 after his incarnation of the band - with Blondie and Ricky and without Brian - just had crumbled, Brian was brought back in bad shape and Carl's creative role in the band was annihilated. No wonder his leads sound so, well, drunk on 15BO-LY-MIU. Yes, Carl Wilson was a human being with desires and problems!

It's the bitterness that doesn't ring true to me. From every other account I've heard of Carl encounters he seemed like one of the least bitter people around.

Well, there's the Ron Altbach story in the In Concert book.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Good point about Albach.

Maybe the guy just got the year wrong.

[Micha]

Good point about Albach.

Maybe the guy just got the year wrong.

And the relations. And I'm 100% sure that the dialogue didn't go word for word as he wrote it. But it is quite possible that this happened in some form or another. Mentioning Ricky as drummer and not mentioning Blondie does point to 1974 though.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I never met Carl, but my impression I got from seeing him in interviews is that he was someone who kept a lot bubbling under. I don't say this story ^ is true, might still be bull, but it could be that the guy met Carl at a moment when Carl was contemplating his own life, and Carl asked him a question he had just asked himself without finding an answer. And at that moment his dissatisfaction with his life popped to the surface. Everybody's dissatisfied with his own life at some point I guess.

A few days ago I was thinking how Carl may have felt in 75-76 after his incarnation of the band - with Blondie and Ricky and without Brian - just had crumbled, Brian was brought back in bad shape and Carl's creative role in the band was annihilated. No wonder his leads sound so, well, drunk on 15BO-LY-MIU. Yes, Carl Wilson was a human being with desires and problems!

It's the bitterness that doesn't ring true to me. From every other account I've heard of Carl encounters he seemed like one of the least bitter people around.

Well, there's the Ron Altbach story in the In Concert book.

When you put it that way this story becomes much more interesting. Less feel-good pseudo-Philosophical bullshit about finding Jebus and more an understated breakdown from the third Wilson brother. Maybe later 1974 is still possible? Wasn't that when Endless Summer came out and basically ensured that they'd become an oldies band?

[retrokid67]

  I couldn't picture Carl telling any fan that they're an a hole.  I could imagine him telling the guy that he's naive, but nothing offensive like that.

[phirnis]

I can picture pretty much anyone telling someone they're an asshole. That kind of thing happens from time to time, no big deal.

The Mike thing should make it into some kind of biopic. "I'm here."

[Micha]

I just followed the link provided in the first post. You can take or leave the Jesus stuff, but the guy is right in one aspect: "The people who bring us entertainment, songs, music, movies are first and foremost people. Like you and me. They are not what the media makes of them—stars, icons, etc. We do them a great disservice when we idolize them. We actually dehumanize them. "

Actually what re-humanized the BBs for me was the In Concert book. It doesn't focus on Brian but instead pictures all band members as equally important human beings with flaws and accomplishments.

It takes away none of the respect I have for Carl Wilson if I imagine him being fed up with his bandmates' rock star allures when somebody comes saying he wants exactly that and then Carl say to him that he's an asshole. He was right to do it and apparently the guy took the hint.

[Mike's Beard]

I'd like to believe this never took place but there's no reason that it couldn't have.

[halblaineisgood]

He has a great story to tell for the rest of his life. HE should consider it an honor to have had Carl Wilson in the flesh giving him a stern pep talk,and then calling him an asshole- and then walking away- only to be comforted by the sweet, sweet,loving arms of al Jardine. Ecstasy . Pure ecstasy.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Could have been 12/15/73, or 11/17/74... no, belay that latter date, Ricky was gone by then. Dennis was drumming again.

[Micha]

In the link the guy actually says it was on Nov 17 1974. As that apparently fits the location and he's so positive about that I guess he took someone else for Ricky. If he thinks Al is Carl's cousin, he may not know what Ricky looked like. Maybe he thought percussionist Billy Figueroa was Ricky.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Sounds utterly plausible to me. Many here may want to deny certain of the very human foibles and weaknesses of the band members while admitting others, but IMO this is one of the realest-sounding, most unguarded behind-the-scenes BB moments that has ever been documented.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sounds utterly plausible to me, down to the last detail.

So... Alan really is Carl's cousin ? 

[Tablevega]

I can believe this took place, though not in quite those words.  People don't tend to remember a dialogue verbatim - they remember the essence, and maybe a few key phrases and then fill in the gaps to express  the sense of what was being said, but using the kind of language they themselves would use.  What Carl did sounds pretty friendly to me.  He's come off a concert stage, he's probably both tired and buzzing but he makes an unknown man he'll never see again welcome,  talks to him and even asks him about his dreams - how many stars take the trouble to turn the conversation to feature the ordinary Joe they're talking to?  And not just with a few perfunctory questions about where they live, but by asking them a  really engaged question that invites them to open up and share something big.?  Then, when the man says something about the dream of his life being to have a life like Carl's, I can imagine Carl sighing and calling him out on it -- not as aggressively as the man remembers, but still in a way that shocked him. The 'asshole' would be his attempt to render that sense of shock.  Besides, a snarling Carl fits the narrative of his redemption story better than a worn-out Carl telling him he's a bit of a fool to want that. And as several people have said, we all have our off moments.  No one gets through forty years of stardom without a point now and again when they're less than perfectly charming. It  doesn't diminish my esteem for Carl at all - if anything it enhances it.  And it's significant to me that the man writes without bitterness or anger towards Carl.

[Wild-Honey]

I remember finding this on the net last year (I think?)  It sounds kinda cliche and a little exaggerated.  I can easily imagine Carl being in that type of mood then though,  you are feeling fed up about it all and someone tells you they want what you've got. 

[Jukka]

True or not, this story only makes me respect Carl more. Shooting straight, way to go. Calling the guy asshole is not the point, he just warns the guy to choose carefully what he dreams of. In no uncertain terms.

[Bittersweet-Sanity]

Slightly off-topic, but it's an excuse to post another Carl aggravated anecdote   (this one courtesy of John Meglen, co-president/CEO of Concerts West/AEG Live)

http://www.celebrityaccess.com/members/profile.html?id=632&PHPSESSID=e0qkdm8l6lfmt05englsa6r5l4

The Beach Boys experience is summer afternoons in the sun, and summer evenings.

That’s right. That was a time when they were doing the Washington Monument shows on the 4th of July to a million people.

Those were crazy.

In 1983, we did Philly first; then we did the National Mall in Washington, D.C.; and then we did Miami. It was when James Watt was the secretary of the Interior. He was the guy that got the Golden Foot Award from Ronald Reagan for trying to ban the annual rock concerts on the Mall with bands like the Beach Boys.

The lineup that year was La Toya Jackson, the Oak Ridge Boys, the Moody Blues, Three Dog Night, Mr. T, Hank Williams Jr., Jimmy Page, Julio Iglesias.

This was the weirdest damn thing you ever saw in your life.

We were staying in D.C. and we had to go up to Philly in the morning to do the Philly show. We get on this train up to Philadelphia, and we have our own cars. And Mr. T. begins talking. And this guy is talking, talking and talking. We do the show in Philadelphia.

It was first time Jimmy Page had done anything in years. I was standing up on the side of the stage, and I swear that you could feel the ground move when Jimmy Page walked out on the stage. It was so amazing.

After the show, we jumped on this big Braniff International airplane, and buzzed the D.C. site. The second we get back on the Braniff airplane, Mr. T started talking and talking and talking. We do the D.C. show, and we have to get back on this plane and fly down to Miami Beach. We get on a plane and Mr. T. starts talking and talking. Carl Wilson, the humblest guy in the world, literally turned around and said, “You know what? We’ve all had enough. Would you just shut the f*** up?” I think that the whole plane applauded.

More Beach Boys discussion (this whole interview is worth reading, btw)

The Beach Boys were one of your clients.

Yes. For the second half of my time with Weintraub and Hulett

You were working with the group when Brian Wilson retired from touring.

I was on the tour that Brian said that was kind of it (for touring). I was there when they did the whole treatment with Dr. Eugene Landry. The beginning there was as Brian leaving the touring, and Landy coming into the picture. When I started Brian, Dennis and Carl were there along with Mike and Al and Bruce Johnston.

You didn’t work on the recent reunion tour?

I didn’t. We did some of the shows, but I passed. We are really an arena company and I felt that the strength for them was to go outdoors. Going and seeing the Beach Boys outdoors in the summertime is what it is all about.

[The Beach Boys' 50th-anniversary tour had a wide range of promoters, including Live Nation, AEG Live, Another Planet, Danny Zelisko Presents, Double T, I.M.P. and Jam Productions. With Brian Wilson onboard, the tour also had a blending of agencies in veteran Beach Boys booker Terry Rhodes, senior VP at International Creative Management, and Wilson's agent, David Levine at William Morris Endeavor. The Agency Group handled international booking.]

[MrRobinsonsFather]

That's a good story never heard that one before!
When Mr T starts talking he doesn't quit.

[Lee Marshall]

Ya...I just read this...and given the time-frame...THAT doesn't sound like Carl at all.  To remember a 40 year old conversation with that kind of detail?  I met Carl what?...two years earlier and spent a couple of hours with him...I can't recall ANYWHERE near that much info...and word for word??? ... no less???

When I was 'there' things were a LOT more subdued...and normal.

I mean how did Dennis get from the stage to crumpled in a ball on the floor so quickly?  Al, in my few times around the guys, is pretty laid back...and he didn't inject himself into conversations as if he was a party co-ordinator and the congenial host.  And Mike's entrance?  That doesn't ring true either.  "I'M HERE!!!"  Really?  I never saw that or anything like it between 1971 and 1993.

And do sound crew guys get to invite people to come hang out WITH THE BAND after a gig?

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The Mr. T story on the other hand does sound believeable.  Everybody has a breaking point after all. ... Just not when someone says...I want to be in a band like yours.  THAT isn't generally the tipping point.
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Ya...thinking about this some more...that first story sounds like it belongs in the 'Beach Boy Dreams' thread.  It reads exactly like a dream sequence.

[Ian]

Well I don't know about this story but the altbach incident was on that November 1974 tour so Carl certainly had angry moments around that time. Also as the book makes clear the band was pretty split between the meditators and the free livers as early as 1974. So Carl expressing annoyance with mike is also not implausible. It all reached a peak of anger in 1977 but there already was tension

[Micha]

Ya...I just read this...and given the time-frame...THAT doesn't sound like Carl at all.  To remember a 40 year old conversation with that kind of detail?  I met Carl what?...two years earlier and spent a couple of hours with him...I can't recall ANYWHERE near that much info...and word for word??? ... no less???

Was meeting Carl a life changing event for you? If so, you should remember more.

"word for word" is relative, it's clear not every sentence he wrote had those exact words, if one at all. Actually the sentence most likely to have been word for word is Carl's "You're an asshole!"

[Lee Marshall]

"life changing"?    No.  But it was extremely cool.  And really decent of Carl.  Maybe I got away unscathed because I wasn't seen to be an asshole?  Must have been the disguise.