The Smiley Smile Message Board

Found this a little while ago

http://davidcalves.com/tag/carl-wilson/


Here's the interesting part :

I was surprised and disappointed that Brian Wilson wasn’t with them. A second drummer had joined them on the road, Rickie Fataar. They did a great job though. They played both their new and old songs. I had never been to a concert as great as that concert.

Later, backstage, I met one of the sound guys and he invited us to the Beach Boys party at the Springfield-Holyoke Holiday Inn, Holyoke, MA. What a break!  Now I get to meet, talk with, drink with my long time heroes.

We got to the Inn and entered the convention room where the party was already in progress. None of the guys had arrived yet. Mainly groupies, sound guys, and a few associates were already there with wine, drinks, and snacks. Everything flowed freely and generously there. I don’t remember paying for anything. Most likely the record company picked up the tab.

When the guys got there, Carl Wilson entered. He wore an open flannel shirt and jeans. He sat at a table behind me. I couldn’t believe it. These guys practically lived in my room–“In My Room.” That song spoke for me. It was as though they knew me or something. The guys who knew me and helped me through many of my problems with girls and at school. The guys who went to the beach with me every summer, who knew the salt and sea air, who knew the smell of French fries and hot dogs were right here with me now. What could I say to them that wouldn’t sound stupid. Hey, I really identified with the stuff in ‘All Summer Long?’

I turned to Carl. “Great concert tonight. The sound was excellent!” We struck up a conversation. We talked together about the road and other hazards. He seemed a little tired, perhaps road-weary, but other than that pretty opened and interested talking. Then it happened. I don’t think he knew what he was about to unleash in my life.

He asked me the strangest question. I later remembered that Plato had said the unexamined life wasn’t worth living. My life was pretty much unexamined up until this night with Carl Wilson. But it was this question and his response to my answer would several months later be used of God to bring me to Himself.

“What’s your dream? What plans do you have for your life?” asked Carl.

I couldn’t believe my ears. What an out of place question in the middle of a party, of all places. I wasn’t in the “profound” mood either. Besides, I didn’t much ask myself such questions. They usually got me depressed.

On top of that . . . I had no clue. “I want to be like you guys,” I heard myself say. “I sing in a band and we hope to get on the road and cut an album.” You would have thought I had told him that Audrey wore combat boots. He laid into me.

“Are you crazy?” He shook his head in disbelief, turned to more fully face me, then riveted his eyes on mine. “Maybe you want to be like him,” he said as he pointed at a dilapidated Dennis Wilson, crumpled on the floor with his back up against the wall, his head tilted to the side, eyes rolled back. He was totally out of it with one attractive girl on each side of him pawing him in his oblivion. One of the girls shoving her shoulder up under his head to later claim that a Beach Boy had slept the night on that shoulder.

Just then, Mike Love shoved the double doors open and burst in. He wore  green satin pants and a matching shirt with a yellow star on it. He had a striking blonde girl on one arm and a to-die-for red-head on the other. He announced in a tone full of himself, “I’m here.” He scanned the scene for response.

Carl could see that I was in shock. He said, “Or maybe you want to be like that asshole.” He pointed to Mike.

I said lamely, “Nah . . . I just want to make it like you guys. And have all the friends and people that love you.”

He shook his head and squinted, and fired at me, “You’re an asshole!”

You think these people are our friends? Man . . . I could go to bed with any one of these chicks tonight but never know whether she did it because I was a Beach Boy or because I’m Carl Wilson. I don’t ever know whether I’m valued as Carl or as a Beach Boy. That’s what you want?”

Then he turned away from me and got up.

I don’t know where he went because I had turned back to the people at my table who were all watching me. Fortunately, I was too drunk and high to know how to respond. I sat stunned.

His cousin, Al Jardine, who had apparently overheard the conversation came and sat next to me. He broke my stupor. He said something like, Hey man . . . don’t worry about him. He doesn’t really mean it. He’s just really bummed out about being on the road. He won’t get to be with his family this Christmas and he’s worried about Dennis and his brother Brian. He’s home in bed.

I didn’t understand what was going on in their lives at that point in their history. Frankly, I was one of those people who saw them as The Beach Boys, not as Carl, Dennis, Al, Brian, Mike, but as a phenomenon and as the group that expressed what I felt in music. If any one of them felt used, rejected frightened, I don’t think I ever gave that a thought. Later I would find out, through documentaries, that Brian had had a breakdown and was literally in bed, clinically depressed perhaps. That they had a falling out with their father who had been their producer early on. And that Dennis was keeping company with Charles Manson and family.

All of the guys wondered about their futures, cared about what was happening to their family and each other and were trying the best to cope with all the “stuff” of their public and private lives, while people like me made them money but didn’t have the humanity to see them as brothers, fathers, husbands, or guys who–like the rest of us–needed love and real people in their lives.

“Yeah . . . OK, thanks,” I said, but didn’t mean it because Carl’s words had cut deeply into my fantasy of who The Beach Boys were. My idols had, in one stroke, in three minutes of conversation incinerated and blown away.

Al spoke again, “Hey . . . sorry. We really do appreciate you and thanks for buying our records and diggin’ our music.” I looked at him. His smile was warm. He placed his hand on my shoulder. “Have another beer. Enjoy yourself.” Honestly, up until that evening, Al was the one I liked least of all the guys. I thought his talent fell short of Brian, Carl, and Mike. He was just kind of . . . there. Then I realized he was one of the nicest of the guys. I felt like he considered it a privilege to be in the band and never fell into believing his own press.

Very interesting story in which I think you find similarities with dozens of groups 'on the road'. Not easy reading but very factual for the period I imagine.

Yeah, it's not what you really wanna hear from one of your idols. If I was in his shoes, my soul would've been completely crushed.

Good on Al, though. What a nice dude!  :)

Fascinating - many thanks for posting.

Interesting, though it doesn't sound like Carl and it doesn't sound like Al.  To me, anyway.

In addition, Al Jardine was not a cousin, Ricki's name is spelled wrong and Dennis was, as they say, in the peak of health in those days, a bundle of energy.  Reads like a routine encounter fictionalized a tad bit for teaching purposes.  Doesn't sound like Mike offstage, either.  Dennis was back drumming by that point and happy about it, from all accounts... and they were on a serious career upswing.

None of it jives. It doesn't sound like Carl or Al at all.

Reminds me of watching Billy Hinsche's DVD "On The Road With The Beach Boys", recorded the same year as this. They recorded at Caribou Ranch in Colorado that year and Brian recorded a song that was released. Endless Summer was out and they were on TV with Chicago and everybody seemed happy. My Uncle was a cop at the time and he was working overtime one Friday night in Sacramento. His job was to guard the stage door entrance to the venue The Beach Boys were playing. He told me the band came in (and out) through the door with their wives and kids and were real cordial and polite and all of them smiled and said Hello and some shook hands with him. He was really impressed with the band members and of course the concert that night.

Agreed.

Good points, the guy who wrote this either made up a story for his book or it was just an off day for the group.

I'm sorry the guy never got a chance to talk to Carl again. I think he would have been pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, Carl's dialogue as rendered is highly unconvincing."What's your dream?" Come on, that 's not a conversation that happens.

If this event really happened, then I must say I've gained more respect for Al - and lost some for Carl.

I've neither gained or lost anything over one encounter, if it really happened at all. Color me dubious.

I'm having difficulty with the idea of Carl wearing an open shirt, even in the '70s.

What. After the concert at a hotel party?

Despite his immaculate physique even Carl Wilson gets sweaty once in awhile.

Taken this to from the "Hi Brian' thread if thats ok. No need to bog that down.

To his credit, he admits he was drunk and high. Some details, maybe even the year, may be wrong but there are aspects that are on the money.

I'm dubious as well.  Definitely doesn't sound like Carl, nor Al.

I never met Carl, but I've spoken with a lot of folks who have, and this does not sound like Carl at all. From all descriptions I've heard he was kind, thoughtful, had a goofy sense of humor, and always treated people graciously and respectfully. I can't imagine that he would have ever told a fan he just met "you're an asshole!" No way.

Sounds like a work of fiction to me.

This lost me at "I'm here".

Not even Mike.

And it'll take more than one fan's drunk stoned recollection of decades ago to convince me that Carl would be that rude to a fan.

What *does* sound like Carl or Al? Not being a smartass, genuinely curious.

I think Gregg explained Carl's demeanor quite well. At least it is what I have read and heard over the past 40 plus years. Emdeeh knew Carl. She is a great place to start.

Gregg's description above pretty much nailed Carl. However, I was not acquainted with him in the '70s, so I can't speak for that era. Ed Roach is the man to ask.

May be nuts but any chance he has mixed up his Wilsons?

The description of Dennis nodding out with his head to one side instantly put me in mind of that Aussie breakfast TV appearance that's on YouTube.

'crumpled on the floor with his back up against the wall, his head tilted to the side, eyes rolled back.'

Could be Carl, Dennis or anyone whacked out on booze and/or drugs really.

Let me put this another way. I'm calling bullshit on this.

It's the bitterness that doesn't ring true to me. From every other account I've heard of Carl encounters he seemed like one of the least bitter people around.

I never met Carl, but my impression I got from seeing him in interviews is that he was someone who kept a lot bubbling under. I don't say this story ^ is true, might still be bull, but it could be that the guy met Carl at a moment when Carl was contemplating his own life, and Carl asked him a question he had just asked himself without finding an answer. And at that moment his dissatisfaction with his life popped to the surface. Everybody's dissatisfied with his own life at some point I guess.

A few days ago I was thinking how Carl may have felt in 75-76 after his incarnation of the band - with Blondie and Ricky and without Brian - just had crumbled, Brian was brought back in bad shape and Carl's creative role in the band was annihilated. No wonder his leads sound so, well, drunk on 15BO-LY-MIU. Yes, Carl Wilson was a human being with desires and problems!


Well, there's the Ron Altbach story in the In Concert book.

Good point about Albach.

Maybe the guy just got the year wrong.

And the relations. And I'm 100% sure that the dialogue didn't go word for word as he wrote it. But it is quite possible that this happened in some form or another. Mentioning Ricky as drummer and not mentioning Blondie does point to 1974 though.

When you put it that way this story becomes much more interesting. Less feel-good pseudo-Philosophical bullshit about finding Jebus and more an understated breakdown from the third Wilson brother. Maybe later 1974 is still possible? Wasn't that when Endless Summer came out and basically ensured that they'd become an oldies band?

 :lol I couldn't picture Carl telling any fan that they're an a hole.  I could imagine him telling the guy that he's naive, but nothing offensive like that.

I can picture pretty much anyone telling someone they're an asshole. That kind of thing happens from time to time, no big deal.

The Mike thing should make it into some kind of biopic. "I'm here." :lol

I just followed the link provided in the first post. You can take or leave the Jesus stuff, but the guy is right in one aspect: "The people who bring us entertainment, songs, music, movies are first and foremost people. Like you and me. They are not what the media makes of them—stars, icons, etc. We do them a great disservice when we idolize them. We actually dehumanize them. "

Actually what re-humanized the BBs for me was the In Concert book. It doesn't focus on Brian but instead pictures all band members as equally important human beings with flaws and accomplishments.

It takes away none of the respect I have for Carl Wilson if I imagine him being fed up with his bandmates' rock star allures when somebody comes saying he wants exactly that and then Carl say to him that he's an asshole. He was right to do it and apparently the guy took the hint.

I'd like to believe this never took place but there's no reason that it couldn't have.

He has a great story to tell for the rest of his life. HE should consider it an honor to have had Carl Wilson in the flesh giving him a stern pep talk,and then calling him an asshole- and then walking away- only to be comforted by the sweet, sweet,loving arms of al Jardine. Ecstasy . Pure ecstasy.

Could have been 12/15/73, or 11/17/74... no, belay that latter date, Ricky was gone by then. Dennis was drumming again.

In the link the guy actually says it was on Nov 17 1974. As that apparently fits the location and he's so positive about that I guess he took someone else for Ricky. If he thinks Al is Carl's cousin, he may not know what Ricky looked like. Maybe he thought percussionist Billy Figueroa was Ricky.

Sounds utterly plausible to me. Many here may want to deny certain of the very human foibles and weaknesses of the band members while admitting others, but IMO this is one of the realest-sounding, most unguarded behind-the-scenes BB moments that has ever been documented.

So... Alan really is Carl's cousin ?  :o

I can believe this took place, though not in quite those words.  People don't tend to remember a dialogue verbatim - they remember the essence, and maybe a few key phrases and then fill in the gaps to express  the sense of what was being said, but using the kind of language they themselves would use.  What Carl did sounds pretty friendly to me.  He's come off a concert stage, he's probably both tired and buzzing but he makes an unknown man he'll never see again welcome,  talks to him and even asks him about his dreams - how many stars take the trouble to turn the conversation to feature the ordinary Joe they're talking to?  And not just with a few perfunctory questions about where they live, but by asking them a  really engaged question that invites them to open up and share something big.?  Then, when the man says something about the dream of his life being to have a life like Carl's, I can imagine Carl sighing and calling him out on it -- not as aggressively as the man remembers, but still in a way that shocked him. The 'asshole' would be his attempt to render that sense of shock.  Besides, a snarling Carl fits the narrative of his redemption story better than a worn-out Carl telling him he's a bit of a fool to want that. And as several people have said, we all have our off moments.  No one gets through forty years of stardom without a point now and again when they're less than perfectly charming. It  doesn't diminish my esteem for Carl at all - if anything it enhances it.  And it's significant to me that the man writes without bitterness or anger towards Carl.

I remember finding this on the net last year (I think?)  It sounds kinda cliche and a little exaggerated.  I can easily imagine Carl being in that type of mood then though,  you are feeling fed up about it all and someone tells you they want what you've got. 

True or not, this story only makes me respect Carl more. Shooting straight, way to go. Calling the guy asshole is not the point, he just warns the guy to choose carefully what he dreams of. In no uncertain terms.

Slightly off-topic, but it's an excuse to post another Carl aggravated anecdote  :p (this one courtesy of John Meglen, co-president/CEO of Concerts West/AEG Live)

http://www.celebrityaccess.com/members/profile.html?id=632&PHPSESSID=e0qkdm8l6lfmt05englsa6r5l4

The Beach Boys experience is summer afternoons in the sun, and summer evenings.

That’s right. That was a time when they were doing the Washington Monument shows on the 4th of July to a million people.

Those were crazy.

In 1983, we did Philly first; then we did the National Mall in Washington, D.C.; and then we did Miami. It was when James Watt was the secretary of the Interior. He was the guy that got the Golden Foot Award from Ronald Reagan for trying to ban the annual rock concerts on the Mall with bands like the Beach Boys.

The lineup that year was La Toya Jackson, the Oak Ridge Boys, the Moody Blues, Three Dog Night, Mr. T, Hank Williams Jr., Jimmy Page, Julio Iglesias.

This was the weirdest damn thing you ever saw in your life.

We were staying in D.C. and we had to go up to Philly in the morning to do the Philly show. We get on this train up to Philadelphia, and we have our own cars. And Mr. T. begins talking. And this guy is talking, talking and talking. We do the show in Philadelphia.

It was first time Jimmy Page had done anything in years. I was standing up on the side of the stage, and I swear that you could feel the ground move when Jimmy Page walked out on the stage. It was so amazing.

After the show, we jumped on this big Braniff International airplane, and buzzed the D.C. site. The second we get back on the Braniff airplane, Mr. T started talking and talking and talking. We do the D.C. show, and we have to get back on this plane and fly down to Miami Beach. We get on a plane and Mr. T. starts talking and talking. Carl Wilson, the humblest guy in the world, literally turned around and said, “You know what? We’ve all had enough. Would you just shut the f*** up?” I think that the whole plane applauded.

More Beach Boys discussion (this whole interview is worth reading, btw)

The Beach Boys were one of your clients.

Yes. For the second half of my time with Weintraub and Hulett

You were working with the group when Brian Wilson retired from touring.

I was on the tour that Brian said that was kind of it (for touring). I was there when they did the whole treatment with Dr. Eugene Landry. The beginning there was as Brian leaving the touring, and Landy coming into the picture. When I started Brian, Dennis and Carl were there along with Mike and Al and Bruce Johnston.

You didn’t work on the recent reunion tour?

I didn’t. We did some of the shows, but I passed. We are really an arena company and I felt that the strength for them was to go outdoors. Going and seeing the Beach Boys outdoors in the summertime is what it is all about.

[The Beach Boys' 50th-anniversary tour had a wide range of promoters, including Live Nation, AEG Live, Another Planet, Danny Zelisko Presents, Double T, I.M.P. and Jam Productions. With Brian Wilson onboard, the tour also had a blending of agencies in veteran Beach Boys booker Terry Rhodes, senior VP at International Creative Management, and Wilson's agent, David Levine at William Morris Endeavor. The Agency Group handled international booking.]

That's a good story never heard that one before!
When Mr T starts talking he doesn't quit.

Ya...I just read this...and given the time-frame...THAT doesn't sound like Carl at all.  To remember a 40 year old conversation with that kind of detail?  I met Carl what?...two years earlier and spent a couple of hours with him...I can't recall ANYWHERE near that much info...and word for word??? ... no less???

When I was 'there' things were a LOT more subdued...and normal.

I mean how did Dennis get from the stage to crumpled in a ball on the floor so quickly?  Al, in my few times around the guys, is pretty laid back...and he didn't inject himself into conversations as if he was a party co-ordinator and the congenial host.  And Mike's entrance?  That doesn't ring true either.  "I'M HERE!!!"  Really?  I never saw that or anything like it between 1971 and 1993.

And do sound crew guys get to invite people to come hang out WITH THE BAND after a gig?

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The Mr. T story on the other hand does sound believeable.  Everybody has a breaking point after all. ... Just not when someone says...I want to be in a band like yours.  THAT isn't generally the tipping point.
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Ya...thinking about this some more...that first story sounds like it belongs in the 'Beach Boy Dreams' thread.  It reads exactly like a dream sequence.

Well I don't know about this story but the altbach incident was on that November 1974 tour so Carl certainly had angry moments around that time. Also as the book makes clear the band was pretty split between the meditators and the free livers as early as 1974. So Carl expressing annoyance with mike is also not implausible. It all reached a peak of anger in 1977 but there already was tension

Was meeting Carl a life changing event for you? If so, you should remember more.

"word for word" is relative, it's clear not every sentence he wrote had those exact words, if one at all. Actually the sentence most likely to have been word for word is Carl's "You're an asshole!" :)

"life changing"?  :lol  No.  But it was extremely cool.  And really decent of Carl.  Maybe I got away unscathed because I wasn't seen to be an asshole?  Must have been the disguise. ;)

See? For the guy it was a life changing event, so he's bound to remember it better. Or stronger.

I believe this conversation happened, and that Carl wasn't an a-hole at all.  He just strikes me as a road-weary guy who is warning a young naive guy about the realities of being a rock star.

But what impresses me most about this story is that Mike had not one but 2 hot babes on his arms..  a blonde and a redhead no less!  Good for Mike.  I thought only Dennis was capable of these things!

What is the Altbach incident? I don't have the In Concert Book?

The real story is obvious-Denny had 2 leftovers and paid them to be nice to myke. ;D

Yeah, the guy who wrote the story could've been what Carl said. You know the type - meeting a superstar and thinking that person is destined to be their best friend and will relate to everything.  I support Carl.

I'm going back to the question I asked earlier which, so far, has been ignoredor at least side-stepped...INSIDERS...Help out here please...the question again was...

"And do sound crew guys get to invite people to come hang out WITH THE BAND after a gig?"


...'cause if they couldn't and didn't...then THIS didn't happen.

I don't know if any of us here would know what the arrangements were back then with this type of thing.  I could see the crew getting a pass or two each to hand out to friends.  But this story sounds as if it were a little bit embellished for effect.  This paragraph:

"I didn’t understand what was going on in their lives at that point in their history. Frankly, I was one of those people who saw them as The Beach Boys, not as Carl, Dennis, Al, Brian, Mike, but as a phenomenon and as the group that expressed what I felt in music. If any one of them felt used, rejected frightened, I don’t think I ever gave that a thought. Later I would find out, through documentaries, that Brian had had a breakdown and was literally in bed, clinically depressed perhaps. That they had a falling out with their father who had been their producer early on. And that Dennis was keeping company with Charles Manson and family."

Makes no sense.  Yeah, Brian had had his problems, but those were well known to the public by 1974.  Yeah, they had had a falling out with their father...in 1965.  Poor Murry was gone by 1974.  And Dennis had kept company with Charlie, but that was back in 1968. 

Just reading it through...the first time...it struck me as a created piece of fiction.  THAT stuff you mentioned was pretty common info for anyone with any interest in anything Beach Boys beyond just the hits.  The framing of it doesn't ring true.

I'm with you.

The night Carl told Mr T. to "shut the f*** up" after a 4th July concert, from an interview with John Meglen, CEO of AEG Live :


"The Beach Boys experience is summer afternoons in the sun, and summer evenings.

That’s right. That was a time when they were doing the Washington Monument shows on the 4th of July to a million people.

Those were crazy.

In 1983, we did Philly first; then we did the National Mall in Washington, D.C.; and then we did Miami. It was when James Watt was the secretary of the Interior. He was the guy that got the Golden Foot Award from Ronald Reagan for trying to ban the annual rock concerts on the Mall with bands like the Beach Boys.

The lineup that year was La Toya Jackson, the Oak Ridge Boys, the Moody Blues, Three Dog Night, Mr. T, Hank Williams Jr., Jimmy Page, Julio Iglesias.

This was the weirdest damn thing you ever saw in your life.

We were staying in D.C. and we had to go up to Philly in the morning to do the Philly show. We get on this train up to Philadelphia, and we have our own cars. And Mr. T. begins talking. And this guy is talking, talking and talking. We do the show in Philadelphia.

It was first time Jimmy Page had done anything in years. I was standing up on the side of the stage, and I swear that you could feel the ground move when Jimmy Page walked out on the stage. It was so amazing.

After the show, we jumped on this big Braniff International airplane, and buzzed the D.C. site. The second we get back on the Braniff airplane, Mr. T started talking and talking and talking. We do the D.C. show, and we have to get back on this plane and fly down to Miami Beach. We get on a plane and Mr. T. starts talking and talking. Carl Wilson, the humblest guy in the world, literally turned around and said, “You know what? We’ve all had enough. Would you just shut the f*** up?” I think that the whole plane applauded."

Rest of article here :

http://www.celebrityaccess.com/members/profile.html?id=632&PHPSESSID=e0qkdm8l6lfmt05englsa6r5l4

I never met the man, but everyone I have talked to who has says he was a patient and diplomatic man who kept his true feelings pretty well veiled.  Any patient and diplomatic person who is keeping that much in is going to have moments where they can't keep it up anymore.  Just because Carl was a cool dude 99% of the time doesn't mean there isn't a 1% where he's just had it and he's going to say what's on his mind, a la Mr. T.   

Underneath it all, from what I've been able to tell, Carl seems to have been a pretty no-bullshit guy who balanced his compassion with a certain call it as he sees it integrity.  I don't think the story happened exactly as written, but I don't reject it out of hand, either.  I wouldn't be surprised if those were close to his feelings, at least at that moment.  Particularly since the era that we're talking about is not very well documented.

And yeah, sound guys and all manner of people can bring people backstage and even to the dressing room.  I've been on major tours and it can go down just like that.

Ya Adam...I don't think we're debating the Mr. T thing.  It's the other one.  Anyway...I asked about the sound guys bringing folks...not backstage for a 'sec'...but rather to a party where they can just come in, sit down, eat, drink...in fact get ploughed, and just amble over, again sit down and shoot the breeze with the stars of the show.  Generally...from what I've seen along the way...even in the early 70s...those things were controlled to at least some degree.

I mean really?  "Hi Dennis.  Mind if I lie down here in the corner beside you?  I have a couple of questions."

Ya...come on back stranger...and join the 'party'?  I don't think so. :3d

The whole thing in 1974 reads like a scene from Almost Famous.  The personalities don't match Carl, Mike, Dennis or Al... the descriptions could be any rock band from that era.  And the dialog itself is, again, generic, rock & roll "get a life, kid" pablum - it reads like a Cameron Crowe scene.  A bad one.

That's what I'm sayin' Steve...just not nearly as well. :hat

Unless I'm mistaken the Beach Boys didn't play the Mall 1983.  They played Atlantic City on the 4th of July.

The following year back at the Mall I don't remember seeing Mr T or Jimmy Page (the show was broadcast).  Just shows how the mind can play tricks for some of these artists and promoters.  I'm sure 1985 was the Jimmy Page show.

As far as the story about Carl in 1974, I can imagine him saying ahole but not in an aggressive manner.  So I've no reason to dismiss the story out of hand.

Maybe Carl should have said to Mr T "Just drink the milk BA!"  Wonder how they managed to get T on the plane in the first place ;)

LostArt, in fairness, there wasn't that much information readily available about the Beach Boys in 1974.  I became a fan in 1976 at age 19, and I could only find one thin (but valuable) volume about them (Ken Barnes', which came out in 1976), and whatever magazine articles that came out around the Brian's Back campaign.   Before Barnes' book there was even less information available, and one couldn't go online and get, for example, the 1971 Rolling Stone article.  (Even if you knew it existed, where would you get it?  At least in Houston, university libraries didn't carry back issues of Rolling Stone).  

Edit: my apologies if you were around back then, and know this very well.  My point is just that what we now take for granted as BB history was not known by everybody.

It wouldn't surprise me that this fan was only casually familiar with the history of the band, and happened to catch Carl on a bad day, even if his account may not be 100% accurate.

As an aside, the Mr. T story raises my esteem for Carl even more!

We always talk on this forum of Carl being this beast without a mind, but I'm sure that's only partially true.

well maybe the dude isn't telling the whole story, maybe he said something to Carl to make Carl think he was an A-Hole (that he left out of the story) because it doesn't make sense that Carl would just say that out of nowhere but if this dude pushed his buttons (like the Mr.T incident) then it makes more sense..

Guy says to Carl, "great concert". Carl replies :"What's your dream? What do you want in life?" Does that sound like a real-life conversation?

Carl then gets all tough-love guru. Want to end up like Dennis (collapsed in a corner)? Then , on cue, Mike at his most obnoxious enters." Or like that asshole?"

 Is this how real life works? People presenting themselves on cue as demonstration examples for cornball "is this what you want for your life?" lectures. I don't believe it.

Ok, not everyone who went to a Beach Boys' concert in 74 knew that the band had three brothers, a cousin and a friend. But you know, if you knew who Brian Wilson was (the leader, composer, arranger etc) you'd certainly know that he didn't tour.

I think this dude happened to go to a get tigether with the band but each time he told the story in the last 4 decades it got more... perfect and rounded. It happens.

And his story as is, makes for a much better reason for him to "turn to jesus" than the probable actual happenings

Now that I see the entire religious writeup on his page, yes, there could well be some embellishment upon a real incident for effect, in addition to any unintentional memory changes that years often bring.

I didn't know Carl, so I could never claim to know what he would or wouldn't say to a fan, only that the general account didn't seem that far-fetched to me.

Of course, the guy could've been so stoned, he could've  actually been  having a conversation with Fleetwood Mac and got Christine McVie mixed up with Al :/

 :lol

Isn't she taller than Al>g<

I think the fact is unless you've spent a fair amount of time with the Beach Boys in unguarded moments ,. there is no way to know exactly what they are like and how they might react in certain situations. To say  "that doesn't sound like Carl" or " I don't think that's something Mike would do" is to my mind ridiculous and presumptuous.

<<I think the fact is unless you've spent a fair amount of time with the Beach Boys in unguarded moments ,. there is no way to know exactly what they are like and how they might react in certain situations. To say  "that doesn't sound like Carl" or " I don't think that's something Mike would do" is to my mind ridiculous and presumptuous.>>

I agree with this statement completely, which is why I said it didn't sound like any of them.

I know you weren't talking about Mr. T.  I only brought it up in passing as an illustration.  I read the thread.

And yup, random people go to backstage parties all the time too.  More so than dressing rooms, I'd say.  I was standing in line at House of Blues one night waiting to see the Raspberries and wound up one on one with Eric Carmen on the back balcony at the end of the night.  It had nothing to do with anyone I knew, it was just pure dumb luck.  It happens.

Cool.  I used to visit his site a LOT.  And he posted there frequently too.  Then suddenly...it was gone???   BIG Beach Boys fan...ol' Eric.  And he always sounded like a fan too.  I guess we went to different shows...you and I.  I recall many a night when there were NO parties after a BBs show...just some quiet time...a few drinks...a few friends...some hand picked invitees...'cause all of that party stuff catches up to guys who'll be needing their singing voices again...tomorrow.

And the "Im HERE!!!" thing.  Mike was just as likely to be alone outside trying to see something up in the far reaches of the night sky...how the planets were aligned, and what might be shooting across the sky...like  the perseid meteor showers.

The only thing which struck me as even remotely near possible in that whole 'descriptive' was Denny...but not rolled up like a ball in the corner on the floor.  Granted...I wasn't there but...I'm saying that the author wasn't either.

I'm sure Carl had his moments. His 'Shut up you guys' comment during In Concert shows he could snap when required.

Absolutely.  I don't think he enjoyed that aspect of things but yes.  Everybody has their limit...and everybody tumbles and stumbles...including Carl D Wilson.

Very true -  my dad told me a great story about how he and his friend, at age 19, went backstage at a Who concert and wandered around unquestioned right up to where they were having their private party, when someone guarding the door finally told them to buzz off.  :lol

With that beard and open neck shirt, maybe he thought Carl was Jesus. Everyone son of God has his off day.

I respectfully disagree with this notion. Obviously that guy has not followed the Beach Boys' history as closely as we do, as is obvious from the amount of misinformation he displays. But just imagine him having the Today! album as a teenager, playing a lot, looking at the cover with "plus three more songs written by Brian Wilson" on the front (!) and "Produced by BRIAN WILSON" on the back. Then probably after GV he pays no mind anymore until years later he goes to the concert, remembering Brian's name.

If he hadn't just seen Carl in the concert, he wouldn't have recognized him, probably even not even known Carl's name!

And as I said, it is practically impossible that this event went down exactly like he wrote it like a movie scene that goes word for word after the screenplay. But I'm sure it happened in some form and is not entirely fictional, and what he remembers about it is close to what he wrote.

Hi Micha! :)   Hmm they wouldn't have had those big screens at concerts either? 

Hi Honey! :) You mean the guy may have not been close enough to the stage to later recognise Carl? Maybe he was close enough or he recognised the clothes, who knows?

Micha,  I thought that's what you were getting at?  How did he know who they were?  Eh, forget me, my brain isn't working so well :/   

No one is a complete saint 24/7, not even Carl Wilson. Besides, to me it didn't sound like he was actually calling the guy an asshole...he was saying, "if your goal in life is for everyone to love you in a surfac-y way, that makes you an asshole." That's quite different. It sounded to me like he was giving the guy some tough-love advice, and that jibes with "advice-giving Carl," like the time he told Jeff Foskett to play all 6 strings of his guitar. It sounds like Carl was lamenting the soul-sucking aspect of being in a band and advising the guy to find another dream that maybe would be more spiritually fulfilling.

ETA, it always seemed to me that Carl always kept any anger/sadness/resentment bottled up as a protective measure, maybe starting when he was growing up in an abusive household. Just because he was the calm, nice, steady brother does not mean he never felt those emotions.

Nope.

In 1983, on July 4th the band did Caesar's Boardwalk, Atlantic City and... nothing else until the 7th.

In 1984, on July 4th, they did the Washington Memorial and then Lummus Park, Miami.

In 1985, on July 4th, they did  Ben Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia, and then the Washington Memorial.

So, dude who wrote this managed to conflate details of three different years. Of course, to some people, this doesn't matter. Why does it have to be right, huh ?  :angel:

One of the more intelligent posts I've seen so far in this thread.

I don't know if this guy's account was real or entirely fabricated.  But to dismiss it completely by presuming to know how Carl would react in that situation is more laughable than anything the blogger wrote.  It's certainly unlikely that his account jibed exactly with what – if anything – might have happened on a particular night 40 years ago.  But to flatly call the man a fraud because "this just doesn't sound like Carl" is silly.

I get the feeling that at least some of the ridicule aimed at the writer may have more to do with the man's profession of faith than to any knowledge of what may or may not have transpired that night in 1974.

<<One of the more intelligent posts I've seen so far in this thread.
I don't know if this guy's account was real or entirely fabricated.  But to dismiss it completely by presuming to know how Carl would react in that situation is more laughable than anything the blogger wrote.  It's certainly unlikely that his account jibed exactly with what – if anything – might have happened on a particular night 40 years ago.  But to flatly call the man a fraud because "this just doesn't sound like Carl" is silly.
I get the feeling that at least some of the ridicule aimed at the writer may have more to do with the man's profession of faith than to any knowledge of what may or may not have transpired that night in 1974.>>

My opinion has nothing to do with the guy's faith.  I share his faith.  If anything, I'm frustrated that he's using what appears to be a fictionalized story to witness.

Not at all certain I was referring to you, Steve (I'd have to go back and review the thread).  Several posters did, however, make light of the man's "come to jebus" (or something similar) experience.  I just find those kind of remarks distasteful, and it really has nothing to do with my personal faith or lack thereof.

I would, however, be interested to know what it is that makes you so certain it was a "fictionalized story."

I'm not certain it was a fictional story.  I have no way of knowing for sure.  But based on my experiences around these guys in the late seventies, early eighties and in more recent years, in backstage, bar and other social situations during tours, none of this rings true. 

Also - the dialog, as someone posted above, is too hokey to be believed.  I've made quite a few films and written quite a few scripts, a very small handful might even be called good, or adequate.  And the scene as written is what's known in the jargon as "too on-the-nose."  As posted above, we start with the young fan, starry-eyed, seeing his rock and roll idols.  He tries to make small talk with Carl, who, instead, asks him a profound question about life.  The young fan's answer allows Carl to illustrate just how shallow the kid's dreams are.  And then, as if by magic, Carl shows him the results of such shallowness... drunken debauchery in the form of Dennis... uncontrolled ego with attendant groupies in the form of Mike, and then a final stinger showing the kid that he'll just go down the same road... an "asshole" like the others.  A beautiful, teachable moment.  It's almost Dickensian. 

LOL.  I certainly see your point – and it's a valid one, indeed.  And as for sharing any time with the Boys, I'm sorry to report that I never had the opportunity.  So I guess I'll defer to someone who knows them and their tendencies much better than myself.

As for the religious aspect...I never saw THAT until sometime yesterday.  I completely missed it when I read the script the first time.  That had nothing to do with my suggesting that THAT didn't sound like something Carl would just launch into.  Maybe down under in Australia when he was 'pissed' but not so much back then in the mid 70s.  Not suggesting that Carl was a saint. [or perfect]  Carl reacted to situations the way many would as has been mentioned here several times..

I'm just saying that the man had a most special kind of 'heart'.  We was a warm person and I just can't see him teeing off on a poor unsuspecting fan who just showed up in his face seemingly out of the blue.

Lorren Daro and I could both use his magical 'recall' ability though.  "TOO ON THE NOSE" indeed.  

I was basically playing the devil's advocate regarding the guy's story.  I thought – still do, actually – that too many posters dismissed the story entirely, when it is possible that he either just embellished it or maybe didn't relate the details with complete accuracy.  I think it's also quite possible that the guy was either unable to relate Carl's remarks in their proper context, or that the context may have been lost on him altogether.

Anyway, if my reaction to the thread made it seem like I was being critical of Carl, heaven forbid.  There is no one – NO ONE – who holds Carl in higher esteem than I.  The man is my idol, has been for almost 50 years.

<<Not suggesting that Carl was a saint. [or perfect]  Carl reacted to situations the way many would as has been mentioned here several times..>>

And I've been on the receiving end of Carl's famous stink eye.  In May of 1983, I was working for a radio station at the time (WTAO-FM - Murphysburo-Carbondale, IL) as a DJ.  I was down in Memphis for a Beach Boys show (Firefall opened... 5/31/83, Mid South Fairgrounds, thanks to Mr. Rusten and Mr. Stebbins).  We were in the hotel bar before the show.  Dennis and Bruce were standing next to me as I had a conversation over beer with Carl about his new solo album.  Among other things, I told him I was pushing the program director to add a couple of album tracks from Youngblood.  Carl remarked that it would be great to hear it on FM radio... he said, "All that compression..."

I looked at him, dumfounded.  I was a DJ.  A voice guy.  And relatively inexperienced at that time.  I didn't know compression from capital gains in 1983.  I hemmed and hawed, finally saying, "...yeah, that does make it better, right?"

At that moment he and I both realized that he knew I didn't know what I was talking about.  He raised his eyebrows and I smiled and turned back to my beer, feeling like the idiot I was.  A dinner and desert evening with Carl, Gina and some friends later that year made up for it but, whew... you didn't pretend to know what you didn't around that guy.  No tolerance for B.S., and rightly so.

No I didn't get the sense that you were being critical of Carl from your post [ s ].  It was more about wanting to let you know that I wasn't poopin' on the guy because of anything religious.  I am NOT religious but I understand that some folks see a benefit in it.  I am not here...or anywhere else for that matter...to ridicule them.  While I'm not 'religious'...I AM spiritual.  There is a difference.

Not a problem.  As a footnote, let me say that I also don't consider myself a religious person.  To me, that term is more about "ceremony" than it is about faith or (your preference) spirituality.  I consider myself to be a person of faith, though I have absolutely no problem with anyone using the word "spiritual."

Andrew, I posted that on the previous page but nobody bothered to read my post! ;D. I also cracked a joke about Mr T (BA Baracus) and planes!  Oh well...

I was also wondering why everyone seem quick to believe the T story about Carl, which contained errors, but seemed to dismiss the 1974 story out-of-hand.

Embellished is a good hint. Last night I was thinking that, considering the guy's aim, it is likely that he exaggerated Dennis' state to fit his Christian agenda more. Also Carl's talk of being able to sleep with any chosen girl without knowing whether out of "true" feelings for him personally or just because he's famous is to be taken with more grains of salt than that he did meet Carl and got called an asshole by him.

There's people on this board that knew Carl well. By most accounts he was a gentle soul, but I've also read he was opinionated and stood by what he thought. Like when he walked out of the Baywatch Nights session, or when he moved Brian from center stage to the side behind a piano.

...except that as the cards come tumbling down...the cards come tumbling down...

Some of it is BS?  Some of it isn't?  Good thing we didn't STEP in it. ;)

Based on true events, dramatized for the effect, I'd say.

I would agree with that. Sometimes we think 'gentle' means 'passive'; Carl stood his ground when he needed to. His gentle diplomacy is very much missed these days.

Add Some you are like a sage, old backwoodsman .

Fascinating story!