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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 189378 times)
James Hughes-Clarke
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« Reply #525 on: January 28, 2015, 02:21:13 PM »

For my part, I find all this 'You're the evil man who gave Brian acid' a bit prissy and weird.  What next.... Do we light our flaming torches and go after the guy who served Dennis his first beer, on the grounds that Dennis would never have thought of finding a drink anywhere else?
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« Reply #526 on: January 28, 2015, 02:49:18 PM »

I am only going to say this once and you can all take it however you want. AGD's contribution to this board has been immense and if you have noticed that other well respected and honoured guests have stayed well away from Lorren Daro and his contributions here.
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« Reply #527 on: January 28, 2015, 03:07:26 PM »

What a strange thread. Here we have a guy who was around Brian during arguably his creative peak and saw a lot of what went on at that time and he's nearly driven away by detractors. Weird. Weird. Weird.

With the possible exception of AGD, I don't think anyone wants Daro driven off the board. However, the fact remains, he's offered very little of value so far, and people are beginning to notice.

Either way, can we stop this fawning over someone just because they were "there." Please? It's getting annoying, especially when their account is most vague when it doesn't outright contradict the established word of others and even itself from post to post. Just because they were "there" doesn't necessarily mean they're a credible witness, or that their behavior warrants admiration. This isn't even a dig at Daro necessarily, just speaking generally. If Murry were alive, would we all be super-respectful and good-naturedely asking him for info?

AGD's always struck me as a good guy. You may say he's being overzealous in his attempt to poke holes in Daro's stories, but at the end of the day I trust him more than Daro and value his input more in general. No contest.
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« Reply #528 on: January 28, 2015, 04:57:43 PM »

he's offered very little of value so far, and people are beginning to notice.
Speak for yourself.
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« Reply #529 on: January 28, 2015, 05:01:29 PM »

he's offered very little of value so far, and people are beginning to notice.
Speak for yourself.

"People" doesn't mean everyone.
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« Reply #530 on: January 28, 2015, 05:11:43 PM »

For my part, I find all this 'You're the evil man who gave Brian acid' a bit prissy and weird.  What next.... Do we light our flaming torches and go after the guy who served Dennis his first beer, on the grounds that Dennis would never have thought of finding a drink anywhere else?
Outstanding, logical response. Here, here!!  High Five
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« Reply #531 on: January 28, 2015, 07:30:08 PM »

A few comments..

Did the great artists and composers of the 18th and 19th centuries need the help of LSD and hash to expand their creativity?   I think not.  To imply that Brian’s peak period was mostly a result of the use of these drugs is selling his creative and musical talent short.  Before he had smoked his first joint he had already logged an impressive track record of hit singles and beautiful music, and had shown a tremendous progression from album to album. 

My main point is this..  even if Brian had never dropped acid I still believe that he would have achieved the same extreme high level of success that he attained from 65-67.  The growth in sophistication in the music,  arrangements and production etc. that was shown from 61-64 show this progression clearly.  And… one could argue that his creative peak may have lasted even longer had he never taken drugs in the first place.

Regarding Marilyn and Murry..  I am not doubting Mr. Daro’s personal accounts of these two, and I can completely understand how he could feel ill will towards them.  However, if one was to step into their shoes and see things from their perspective, maybe their actions and behaviors toward Mr. Daro would be more understandable.  I mean could you imagine just marrying the love of your life and then finding out that your new spouse had just started taking drugs?  This has to be more than a little frightening for a newly-wed.  Also imagine being Murry.. what father wouldn’t feel very upset or even devastated after discovering that their son (somebody that they have loved since day one) was suddenly taking mind-altering chemicals?  I’m sure most fathers on this board could agree that they would react in a similar manner.  Am I way off base here?
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Lorren Daro
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« Reply #532 on: January 28, 2015, 08:34:14 PM »

 Some Notes:

An essay is reportage with opinions. Reportage is just the facts. I wrote an essay about Brian on WordPress. Understood?

My two books were self-published, not published by a ‘vanity press.’ One pays a vanity press to publish a book. I paid for the publishing of my books. This has become common practice today. Almost half the books are self-published. Why? Because instead of getting a maximum of 15% of the earnings a publisher will give you (after expenses), self-publishing will give you 80% of them. I chose the 80%. Do you blame me? Both my books did very well.

I was not a press agent or a publicist for the agencies I worked for. I was an actor’s agent for MCA, and a booking agent for GAC and Ashley-Famous. Later on, I was a publicist for Johnny Mathis, a record promoter for Liberty Records, and a concert promoter for several acts, including Ray Charles. Finally, I became a Tour Manager for eight years because it didn’t involve lying or deception, which tore me apart.

Do you guys know that it’s a ‘jester’, as in court jester, and not a ‘chester’? Am I wrong to bring this up?

For the record: I took LSD several times and then quit, having learned enough from it. I tasted, but never was habituated to, coke. I had some experience with methamphetamine for a while, but it wore me out and I quit. I smoked pot for almost twenty years, from 1962 until 1981, when I quit to raise my son. My memory is not impaired by drugs, but by 77 years of living. Drugs did not wound me or addle me or cripple me. I enjoyed every minute of them.

I was born Loren Darro Schwartz. I changed it in 1976 to Lorren Daro. The difference in spelling was due to a consultation with Greg Tiffen, the most prominent numerologist of the day. My wife and children had changes in spelling, as well. The point was to give added strength to our presentation to the world. It seems odd today, but then it was common to do that. Subud, an oriental spiritual practice at the time was known for this, too -- Jim McGuinn became Roger McGuinn, Tad Diltz became Henry Diltz, etc. I also worked as a folk singer during and in between these professions for about three years. I wasn't really that good and finally gave it up.

Okay, enough….

MrRobinsonsFather: Yes, Brian mentioned that he had met Paul McCartney. I don’t think they were on similar wavelengths. Brian didn’t say much about it that I can remember, nor did he seem impressed. The Beatles, I think, were a mystery to him.

Puni Puni: I wasn’t aware of either the death of Terry Sachen or David Anderle. I’ve already written about my love for Michael Vosse. You’ll think this is cruel, but I’m glad to see Sachen in his grave. Maybe now he’ll be able to face the damage he has done.

As for Anderle: I went to grammar school with him – Carthay Circle in West LA (the Oscars and all the big premiers used to be held there). I loved and admired him greatly, and he and our young sons used to go to movies together often. We saw the first ‘Star Wars’ pic together. Head of A&R at A&M records for decades, and the inventor of the rocknroll soundtrack, beginning, I believe with ‘Car Wash’. I loved him. He painted the most moving and accurate portrait of Brian anyone has ever done – it’s spiritual and moving.

Add Some:

“In a nutshell then...you provided Brian with a few drugs of the era (LD: only two)...known to perhaps enable creative people to take their 'craft' a little further.   Maybe see that which beforehand you had previously overlooked. You did so somewhat unwillingly, but provided clean, safe...or at least safer/clean...pot and 'acid' so that Brian could experience the best there was available at the time. Otherwise he would have, and subsequently did, go for more street level renditions and that ultimately overtook him.  Fairly accurate?”

Yes, accurate. But it wasn’t just ‘clean drugs’, it was a clean and safe environment. The pot: yes, I held Brian off it for a full year. Others smoked it around him, but I never saw a joint offered to him in my living room after I asked that that not be done. The LSD: The best at the time. Owsley 125mcg, transparent blue liquid in a small vial. The important thing was that I knew how to be a ‘psychedelic guide’. I didn’t take the drug. I watched over him and created a calm space for him to experience it in. I was there to answer questions, if he had any, and to keep him from going off on any tangents. The ‘pillow’ incident at the beginning only lasted about an hour. From then on, he had control (as much as one can have) of the process.

Murry burn in hell? Right on! And, you get a cigar…

Mike Love? It’s worse than you can imagine. I once called him a demon in human form. I was not exaggerating…

“Is that safe to say?  That Brian was, seemingly, misdiagnosed in terms of his illness and was prescribed incorrectly with drugs which didn't help but perhaps hindered him instead.”

Yes…

Brian: My dates have been notoriously wrong, but I can make a good guess that Brian was okay for at least three years after taking LSD (only once with me) and staying on marijuana (not from me). The problems started with, a) Terry Sachen giving every drug he could find to Brian. b) At first, pretending to be mentally ill to keep off the road, and then, with food, more drugs, isolation in his bedroom, Marilyn unable to understand him, and agoraphobia. c) And, finally the introduction of Eugene Landy into his life when his supposed mental illness began. A, B, C. Three strikes and you’re out. I sincerely believe that Brian was never truly seriously mentally ill. He may have been borderline schizophrenic, but, as someone carefully explained on this site, he never appeared to have crossed over into full-blown disease. Landy’s drugs, a crew of keepers, Marilyn’s hysterics, and other elements I can’t speak to, put him in a child-like state of dependence that knocked him off balance that was sustained for years.

Yeah, Lee, I’m about done…

Mikie (and others): Yes, Brian said LSD ‘…tore his head off ‘– everywhere. But that came much later when he realized that the easiest way to deal with his keepers was to claim he was injured by it. As has been quoted here recently by several people, Brian spoke very highly of the experience – especially early on. Quit ragging on this, please…

Wild Honey: No, Add Some isn’t saying that. I think he wants to save me from the acidic invective being hurled my way, and asking if I haven’t had enough of it already.  Almost, but not quite…

Buddhahat: It sounds like AGD is the one with his head under the pillow by refusing to watch ‘Beautiful Dreamer’. By the way, I looked sweaty on film because of the lighting. Vosse, who was interviewed at the same time in the same studio in San Francisco, looked as greasy as I did. You’ll notice that no one else in the doc looks that way because they were filmed in LA. I didn’t like it either.

Once again, for the record, I laughed about Brian’s LSD experience because it was funny and charming and sweet. It wasn’t somber or serious for either of us. We both laughed and giggled for hours. Brian always made jokes about everything, and I did, too. In remembering it during filming of the doc, it all came back that way. I wasn’t ridiculing either Brian or the event. I was celebrating them! Can’t you people see that???

“Wow. If Mike Love registered here, what would we actually talk about?!”

If he does, you all had better be careful what you say…

Cam Mott: I’m surprised at you, Cam. I have listed my specific allegations about all three of them here many times in great detail. Read my posts, dear friend. I cannot ascribe good intentions or a good heart to any of the three. They are, or were, all self-serving, selfish and purposely destructive to Brian, whom they envied and tried to take down – Marilyn included, out of her profound insecurity.

Watch a Cave: That was a great post! Yes, I agree, I believe Brian would have continued to be a successful artist if he had not taken any drugs at all. Although, I must mention that many great writers and artists have used opium, ether, hash, coffee, tobacco and alcohol to try to enhance their creativity. It’s pretty much an artistic given.

You obviously have a kind heart to consider the inner feelings of Murry and Marilyn during this time. I wish I could agree with you. Murry was a true bastard from both the day he married Audree and the births of his sons. I know you can’t imagine someone being that bad a person, please take mine and other’s word for it, he was a viscous, bullying, rampaging, purblind, hateful monster of immense proportions. His abuse of his children alone nominate him for being turned on a BBQ spit in the deepest circle of hell. And, I’m probably being kind here. Marilyn was so caught up in her own valid insecurities that there was no room for empathy toward Brian. She was no Murry, but so lacking in character that she was blind to her husbands needs. I have no sympathy for anyone who refuses to consider the needs of others around them when they call out for help. Other than that, I appreciate your attempt at forgiveness for these deeply flawed people.

Lorren Daro

« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:24:16 PM by Lorren Daro » Logged
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« Reply #533 on: January 28, 2015, 08:43:10 PM »

he's offered very little of value so far, and people are beginning to notice.
Speak for yourself.

 Grin
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« Reply #534 on: January 28, 2015, 09:05:51 PM »

A few comments..

Did the great artists and composers of the 18th and 19th centuries need the help of LSD and hash to expand their creativity?   I think not.  To imply that Brian’s peak period was mostly a result of the use of these drugs is selling his creative and musical talent short.  Before he had smoked his first joint he had already logged an impressive track record of hit singles and beautiful music, and had shown a tremendous progression from album to album. 

My main point is this..  even if Brian had never dropped acid I still believe that he would have achieved the same extreme high level of success that he attained from 65-67.  The growth in sophistication in the music,  arrangements and production etc. that was shown from 61-64 show this progression clearly.  And… one could argue that his creative peak may have lasted even longer had he never taken drugs in the first place.

Regarding Marilyn and Murry..  I am not doubting Mr. Daro’s personal accounts of these two, and I can completely understand how he could feel ill will towards them.  However, if one was to step into their shoes and see things from their perspective, maybe their actions and behaviors toward Mr. Daro would be more understandable.  I mean could you imagine just marrying the love of your life and then finding out that your new spouse had just started taking drugs?  This has to be more than a little frightening for a newly-wed.  Also imagine being Murry.. what father wouldn’t feel very upset or even devastated after discovering that their son (somebody that they have loved since day one) was suddenly taking mind-altering chemicals?  I’m sure most fathers on this board could agree that they would react in a similar manner.  Am I way off base here?


I understand your point but a lot of the classical composers of the 18th & 19th centuries did use a substance at the time, opium. I do agree that no artist NEEDS to take marijuana or anything else to be creative but it does help.
Brian has said marijuana helped his creative path ways, as have other musicians, writers, comedians. George Carlin not too long before he passed away said he still took a joint after he would write a sketch to make the final product.

Just read Lorren's post to you watch a cave, he says pretty much what I say about opium. I'll post anyway.
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« Reply #535 on: January 28, 2015, 09:10:24 PM »

Interesting, thanks for your response.
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« Reply #536 on: January 28, 2015, 09:13:31 PM »

Mikie (and others): Yes, Brian said LSD ‘…tore his head off ‘– everywhere. But that came much later when he realized that the easiest way to deal with his keepers was to claim he was injured by it. As has been quoted here recently by several people, Brian spoke very highly of the experience – especially early on. Quit ragging on this, please…

Lorren, just to be clear, it's the first time I addressed LSD here. I wasn't "ragging". I just replied to Gregg's post concerning Brian's contradictory statements over the years about LSD's advantages and disadvantages. You have examples - the Rolling Stone article, where he had somewhat positive things to say about it, then he seems to counter his statement on the Mike Douglas show in 1976 and then the Diane Sawyer interview, and I'm sure there's others. When asked on "The Q" (CBC) back in 2011, Brian told of the advantages of LSD, taking an 8 hour dose, and writing songs (i.e. California Girls). He concludes that LSD helped him in the short run, but it didn't in the long run.
 
I hope these guys don't scare you away, Lorren. I think it's cool that you're addressing each and everyone's questions and comments here.

Hang On To Your Ego, hang on but I know that you're gonna lose the fight! - Brian Wilson
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #537 on: January 28, 2015, 09:13:41 PM »

Lorren: I appreciate you being on the board; I can't image posting knowing you'll take a beating from some on these things!

So my question is: what exactly did Mike Love do that upset you so much? I have spent about a grand total of 90 minutes around the man in the last dozen years, and personally I found him to be sharp, funny, polite, and of course he does love the ladies, but I saw no malice towards anyone (and he spoke nicely of Brian). But do you suppose the way he was around you back then was because of the drugs? He hated what drugs did to his cousins...and probably hated those who brought drugs to them. What do you think?
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« Reply #538 on: January 28, 2015, 09:34:34 PM »

Lorren do you recall a book called Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Malts ? There's a photo of Brian holding that book.
Was there one particular piece of literature that he was in awe of. Brian has mentioned The Act of Creation by Arthur Koestler.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 09:36:04 PM by MrRobinsonsFather » Logged
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« Reply #539 on: January 28, 2015, 10:25:37 PM »

Hi Lorren; thanks for sticking around!

I was curious to know about your impressions of both Dennis and Carl during the time you knew them. I was also interested to know more about the Subud movement and numerology, particularly in regards to their popularity with Hollywood-type folks in the sixties and seventies. I'm assuming they were part of a broader "new age movement" if you will that sought to displace traditional 1950s-style morality with a type of new enlightenment? Why do you think that movement ultimately peaked and then crashed?

I really appreciate the time you're taking to share your insight with us. Thanks again.
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« Reply #540 on: January 28, 2015, 11:23:02 PM »

I think he wants to save me from the acidic invective being hurled my way

Hasn't it occurred once in your 77 years of living that the reason you get an acidic reception is that you yourself spew acid and hatred all the time? Haven't you read the back cover of the Smiley Smile cover where it says "The smile that you send out returns to you"? You have no right to complain about people "hurling acidic invectives" at you because that's what you do. I have never seen more hateful and angry posts on this board than yours, especially your first post in the original thread that was rightfully removed from the board by the responsible mods. You may say I can't handle insults, but you can't make me think people should behave this way.

The ironic thing is that you came here raise people's opinion of you into a more positive way. I had no opinion of you before, despite seeing you in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, but now after reading your posts in which you display your character, my opinion of you is so low that if I believed there was a hell I'd be convinced you'd join Murry, Sachen, and Landy in their own room down there. As I don't, I pity you, it must be tough to carry that much anger and grudge.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 11:56:28 PM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #541 on: January 28, 2015, 11:37:54 PM »

I think he wants to save me from the acidic invective being hurled my way

Hasn't it occurred once in your 77 years of living that the reason you get an acidic reception is that you yourself spew acid and hatred all the time? Haven't you read the back cover of the Smiley Smile cover where it says "The smile that you send out returns to you"? You have no right to complain about people "hurling acidic invectives" at you because that's what you do. I have never seen more hateful and angry posts on this board than yours, especially the one in your first post in the thread that was right fully removed from the board by the responsible mods. You may say I can't handle insults, but you can't make me think people should behave this way.

The ironic thing is that you came here raise people's opinion of you into a more positive way. I had no opinion of you before, despite seeing you in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, but now after reading your posts in which you display your character, my opinion of you is so low that if I believed there was a hell I'd be convinced you'd join Murry, Sachen, and Landy in their own room down there. As I don't, I pity you, it must be tough to carry that much anger and grudge.

*applause*

So much this. Thank you, Micha. With all the "no c'Mon guys, he was 'there.' So be nice to him" responses, I was feeling like I'm in some kind of bizarro world.

Daro, if I missed it in that exceedingly long post, I apologize, but are you deliberately avoiding answering my question? If so, is it just because you don't like me? I figured you dont considering all that's happened, but I'd hoped we could put aside personal rancor in the spirit of divulging information. Guess not. Pity, as that seems to be everyone else's excuse for ignoring your behavior this far. If you won't answer an honest question out of pettiness like that...what's the point?

Thinking about it more though...would that be you on the Lifeboat Tape at least? The one introducing the concept? If so, that couldn't be you in any other skits as the voice sounds completely different. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but in the lack of insider info I'm forced to guess about this.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #542 on: January 28, 2015, 11:57:53 PM »

When I reread my post in yours, I found a grammatical flub that could be misleading which I now corrected in my original post.
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« Reply #543 on: January 29, 2015, 12:32:23 AM »

Haven't you read the back cover of the Smiley Smile cover where it says "The smile that you send out returns to you"?

Evidently, you haven't. If you browse Daro's post history, he hasn't made any remarks toward any member of this forum who didn't provoke him with hostility first. If you have anything you want to say to Daro concerning his personal ethics, why don't you just email him privately with your thoughts? The purpose of a board called "Ask the Honored Guests" is so that questions and answers can be readily available in an open, public space where others can follow with additional inquiries. There must be others besides me who care more about what Daro has to say concerning Brian's specific intellectual occupations when composing Pet Sounds and Smile than what Daro has to say in response to you wanting him to burn in hell. Just drop it.
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« Reply #544 on: January 29, 2015, 12:42:11 AM »

If you have anything you want to say to Daro concerning his personal ethics, why don't you just email him privately with your thoughts?

Good idea, will do so next time.
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« Reply #545 on: January 29, 2015, 01:01:52 AM »

Jeez can't we move on. Aren't we adults.
I too thought it was a little harsh what Lorren said about Marilyn but he himself has apologised. If you asked Marilyn what she thinks of Lorren I don't think she would have kind words either. She is entitled to her opinion just as much has he is.
I didn't understand Lorren's anger in his first posts but I would understand his anger now.
Every time it seems we're going to move on someone has to start trashing him. We're just going around in circles.

Like Mikie said he is taking the time to address our posts. Most of use have only heard his opinions from the short snippets from the documentary.
If you don't care for what he has to say then I wouldn't even bother reading the thread but some of use want to hear his side.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 03:18:34 AM by MrRobinsonsFather » Logged
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« Reply #546 on: January 29, 2015, 01:15:00 AM »


Evidently, you haven't. If you browse Daro's post history, he hasn't made any remarks toward any member of this forum who didn't provoke him with hostility first. If you have anything you want to say to Daro concerning his personal ethics, why don't you just email him privately with your thoughts? The purpose of a board called "Ask the Honored Guests" is so that questions and answers can be readily available in an open, public space where others can follow with additional inquiries. There must be others besides me who care more about what Daro has to say concerning Brian's specific intellectual occupations when composing Pet Sounds and Smile than what Daro has to say in response to you wanting him to burn in hell. Just drop it.

Nah...

He came on the board bursting with splenetic fury with his machine gun of ire firing in all directions (he later at least had the good grace to apologize for exactly this and all these posts have all been deleted I guess).

He did, when he was playing the tough guy, post that, `he doesn`t give a f*** what anyone thinks` though so I can`t see how anybody could provoke him anyway.

Admittedly he also stated, when we was playing the sympathy card, `you couldn`t have hurt me more` however...
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SinisterSmile
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« Reply #547 on: January 29, 2015, 01:32:00 AM »

This might be a silly question Lorren, but did you ever think about picking up music yourself? I can imagine seeing Brian work could be quite inspirational.
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« Reply #548 on: January 29, 2015, 01:47:35 AM »

but some of us want to hear his side.

Even me.
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Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
Lorren Daro
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« Reply #549 on: January 29, 2015, 03:42:17 AM »

To all SS members on this Thread:

It seems clear to me now that this has all gone too far. Someone wrote that almost all the influential members have left this Thread. Only a very few are left to argue with each other over the same ideas – my defenders on one side, my detractors on the other – a vicious circle.

My intent was to get a couple of concepts across, and you’ve read them over and over now. Everyone has thrown in their two cents. I think it’s time for me to leave. I think things began to change when Van Dyke made his opinion of my crusade clear. The Thread began to thin out at that point. How can one argue with VDP? One of the dearest and sweetest human beings on earth, and certainly one of the smartest. And one who was there when I was.

I am grateful to those who seem to understand what I have been trying to say, and for forgiving my trespasses. I salute the nay-sayers for sticking with their positions. I admire anyone who perseveres – even if I don’t agree with them.

I would stay if I thought there was any more progress to be made, but I really don’t think there is. Now, you can all think about the three mf’ers I’ve tried to reveal here: Murry, well-known. Marilyn, not so well-known. And Mike, who is a mystery to most of you, and whom I wish I could have said more about. I’m willing to accept the mistakes I’ve made. I just wanted them to have to face their own – perhaps for the first time.

Please don’t address any more posts to me. I won’t be returning to this site to read them. Talk among yourselves, if you like.

If any of you, like Add Some, Buddhahat, and Don Malcolm, wish to correspond with me. I will be happy to do so through email.

Thank you all for spending time with me. I learned a lot.

Lorren Daro

lorrendaro@gmail.com


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