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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 233804 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #475 on: January 27, 2015, 02:52:04 PM »

Hello, mods - someone's just called me a snide f***. I'm guessing they're going to get banned for that, right ? Because those are the rules, aren't they ?

AGD: Please read the above about the Beatles album mistake.

I didn’t imagine that Vosse was at the ‘Pet Sounds’ instrumental sessions. I don’t know or care why he states differently. He may have had his own reasons for doing that. I don’t imagine human beings where they don’t exist. I wish I had someone else to verify this, but I don’t. I guess we’ll have to live with it. You’re a snide f***, aren’t you, AGD? You don’t get out much, do you?

OK... all I've been doing is looking into what you've claimed to tie it into the established timeline (or for internal credibility), and pretty much every time, you've come up short.

The tour you managed was 1963... oh. no, it was 1964, dates which no-one has documented...

You last met Brian in 1967... oh no, you told someone else it was 1981...

Vosse can confirm you were at the Pet Sounds sessions... aside from his being two years dead, his contemporary account proves that he wasn't at those sessions. yet you still claim he, and you were.

You claim the family and band influenced the content of Brian's 1991 book to keep your name out of it... a good trick as he was under Landy's thumb by then and estranged from pretty much everyone.

And you expect me to take your claims seriously ? You came here with one agenda, as you stated - to "clear" your name. There's an increasing number of folk here not buying that, due in no small part to your antagonistic manner. You make think me a snide f***, but at least I'll not go down in BB history as the man who blew Brian's mind with acid and laughed about it. Stay classy.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:07:27 PM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #476 on: January 27, 2015, 02:55:36 PM »

So, were you one of the people who was involved in the Psychedelic Sounds comedy sketches by any chance? I'm not sure who all was. They were recorded in December '66. If you were there, if you remember...what can you say about them? Did Brian talk about how they might fit into SMiLE or if they were for something else?

By "Psycodelic Sounds", he means these recordings, Daro: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWTHzKFd1KI
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« Reply #477 on: January 27, 2015, 03:02:32 PM »

Lorren,
There are those of us that are enjoying your company, trying to ask decent questions, and trying above all, to learn some things. Please consider staying around a bit longer for US. Perhaps you could just stop replying to those only interested in antagonism of one sort or another?

The "How To Speak Hip" LP is a riot isn't it? I suppose that whole culture began with "fast talking" (a phrase most will not get these days)

My mind is blown about Brian not knowing who Clark Gable, Gary Cooper and Cary Grant were! I mean, how could ANYBODY be that isolated? (a rhetorical question) It must have been something to see that kind of musical mind wrapped in such an uncultured young man.

This brings something to mind. (for me anyway) What the F**K has happened to education in this country? How did we get from the International Geophysical Year to here in such a short time?. I had a long discussion with my dear departed friend Rick Jaeger (drummer for Dave Mason, Pointer Sisters, Crosby Stills and Nash etc...) and he was just beside himself over it. People (warning, sweeping generalization) are so stupid these days it's painful. I suppose any culture infatuated with famous people and money is bound to turn out like this.

Did you ever try to turn Brian on to other musical artists, or did you think he didn't need that?

What instrument(s) do you play? What were your musician experiences? Is it OK to talk about things other than Brian?

Turn Signal:

What do you think about anti gravity technology and other life in the universe? (seriously)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:57:20 PM by Tricycle Rider » Logged

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« Reply #478 on: January 27, 2015, 03:05:48 PM »

Hello, mods - someone's just called me a snide f***. I'm guessing they're going to get banned for that, right ? Because those are the rules, aren't they ?

What, are you five? "Teacher, teacher! He called me a bad name!"

You guys are unbelieveable. I doubt banning is even necessary at this point. I don't see why he would possibly be compelled to post anything more after the repeated rudeness and hositility directed at him.
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« Reply #479 on: January 27, 2015, 03:08:28 PM »

Just reminding folk of the rules here, which apply to all posters.
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« Reply #480 on: January 27, 2015, 03:24:43 PM »

A historian, there, trying to get a historical figure banned from the discourse.
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Lorren Daro
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« Reply #481 on: January 27, 2015, 03:43:05 PM »

I'll try to answer posts after a few accumulate. I appreciate the support some of you have posted.

I have a question: In 1963, I met a man at Brian's house who was a prominent writer about the Beach Boys. He was an older man, skinny, with a beard. His name was Earle Leaf. Brian liked him and favored his writing. In 2003, when I was interviewed for 'Beautiful Dreamer', I asked David Leaf if he was any relation to Earle Leaf. He said he wasn't. It's one hell of a coincidence that two major writers on the BB's have the same last name.

Can anyone fill me in on the truth in this matter? I never read David Leaf's books -- first one, 1978, and updated in 1985. I'm interested if David trashed me in that book. He was certainly nice to me in the interview. Out of almost two hours, he only used ten minutes -- and those ten showed me in the usual bad light. I don't blame him for using the most flashy material, but I'd like to know if I was exploited. I won't do anything about it, I'm just curious.

 Lorren Daro
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« Reply #482 on: January 27, 2015, 03:52:49 PM »

This is the difficulty with this particular period in Brian's life--it is still controversial and contentious. The competing impulses that existed at that time actually seem to be dwarfed by the competing impulses of those who apparently want to be the ones to "write the history." It's more than a bit surreal, in fact.

It would be priceless for the mods to have pulled a thread, then have AGD himself start a new one on the topic and vacillate between recusing himself and bulking up into the "DA on steroids," have the thread moved into the "Honored Guest" section and THEN ban the guest because he gets fed up with the relentless DA and calls him a bad name?

Luis Bunuel would love this!!  3D

Lorren, I haven't read David's book in a long time, and I'm away from my copy, but my recollection (which I fully expect to be corrected) was that you were mentioned as a "notorious" character--and let's face it, you are!!--but that it didn't go further than that. David's book was sympathetic to Brian as an artist, championing the notion that he shouldn't have been interfered with in his quest to visit the "places where new things might be found."

David was from the NYC area and didn't move to California until 1975 or so. Earl Leaf was a long-time West Coast photographer who'd been around for a long time on the Hollywood scene. He switched to rock'n'roll in the sixties. They aren't related.

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« Reply #483 on: January 27, 2015, 03:57:40 PM »

Vosse can confirm you were at the Pet Sounds sessions... aside from his being two years dead, his contemporary account proves that he wasn't at those sessions. yet you still claim he, and you were.

He died 1 year, 7 days ago.  If your entire post is based on pointing out the inaccuracies of others, it might help to get your own facts straight first.
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« Reply #484 on: January 27, 2015, 04:13:16 PM »

Vosse can confirm you were at the Pet Sounds sessions... aside from his being two years dead, his contemporary account proves that he wasn't at those sessions. yet you still claim he, and you were.

He died 1 year, 7 days ago.  If your entire post is based on pointing out the inaccuracies of others, it might help to get your own facts straight first.

 LOL
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« Reply #485 on: January 27, 2015, 04:15:54 PM »

Vosse can confirm you were at the Pet Sounds sessions... aside from his being two years dead, his contemporary account proves that he wasn't at those sessions. yet you still claim he, and you were.

He died 1 year, 7 days ago.  If your entire post is based on pointing out the inaccuracies of others, it might help to get your own facts straight first.
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« Reply #486 on: January 27, 2015, 04:18:16 PM »

No, Avan, AGD referenced Vosse's death in that particular round of "gotcha." The syntax is a little tortured, but he didn't make a misstatement of fact.

It looks to me as though he's trying to expose some kind of "smoking gun" that will reveal the person signing these posts as "Lorren Daro" to be a hoaxter--which was Andrew's original position back in 2012 when the material first surfaced (in the thread you linked to earlier).
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« Reply #487 on: January 27, 2015, 04:38:31 PM »

 Sent to me in an email by Lee Marshall [Add Some]

"Lorren, I am one of the Smiley Smile crew who very much appreciates what it is you are OFFERING us at the site.  I just can't believe how narrow-minded, shortsighted and childish some of the reaction has been to your attempts to enlighten.Honestly?  At first I thought that it was merely going to be entertaining and that it would turn out to be something there to generate amusement. I quickly discovered that it had the potential to be much, much more than that and I kept asking people to back off and let the opportunities unfold.  Then it all got shut down.  Thankfully you came back to offer 'the great unwashed' a second chance.

Looks like that hourglass is running out of its grains of sand too.  You stated initially that you needed a place to, and wanted an opportunity to, clear up some misconceptions, and to maybe distance yourself from some of the bullshit that has been planted next to your name all these years. How can I help you do that?  What is it that your specifically want to touch on.  What do you need to get off your mind and onto the 'page' for all to see, digest and understand?  Right now I feel like I'm guessing incorrectly and about to miss the boat."

Yours truly, Lee Marshall [Add Some]

Dear Lee: I’m posting this on SS from an email you sent me. I hope you don’t mind.

First, thanks for the supporting statement. I appreciate it very much. Second, I will say that the one subject I have been trying to deal with, besides my giving pot and LSD to Brian -- the right way, is the misinformation about the roles of Murry, Mike Love, and Marilyn.

Murry has been well-covered here and elsewhere, and he was even worse than the writing about him – a true monster, and, I believe, the primary cause of the later problems such as the mental condition of Brian, and the deaths of Dennis and Carl, both of whom were deeply flawed.

Mike Love, although lionized here, is quite the opposite in real life. None of you has been around him in personal situations and are unable to make clear judgements about his behavior. I was there, Van Dyke Parks was there, Tony Asher was not there, David Anderle was there, but is too nice to trash anyone. The rest don’t dare to talk.

As for Marilyn, I was one of the very few who was there to observe the treatment of her husband, whom she professed to love. I don’t care if she was young, afraid, lonely, inexperienced or stupid. She made Brian miserable when he needed her support most of all. Melinda does this for him. Marilyn would not. She has been covering for herself for decades, and I’ve had enough of it. We come home for comfort, relief and understanding. Marilyn gave him none of them. I heard it and saw it.

I must add to this list, Terry Sachen, who fed Brian coke, speed, meth, hash, LSD and anything else he could get his hands on, and did more to set Brian on the wrong road than any other person, including Eugene Landy. Sachen is a non-entity. It’s not worth the time and trouble to say anything more about him. He knows what he did and can’t, or won’t, answer for it.

It’s true, my time with Brian was limited. It’s true that I can’t answer the trivial and technical questions that a lot of you ask. I can only address the personal experiences I had with him, for as long as it lasted. There were some important issues there at the time, and I am trying to open the door to them and to set some of the record straight.

When Van Dyke says, “Don’t judge the book by the movie,” what he’s saying is that I am the book, the movie is all the crap that has been written about me. Van Dyke understands, I wish more of you did…

All right, SS’ers (an appropriate title) fire away…Lorren Daro

PS: AGD, please leave me alone...       


« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 04:40:10 PM by Lorren Daro » Logged
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« Reply #488 on: January 27, 2015, 04:40:54 PM »

I hope we can soon practice a little more civility towards each other. Our questions and answers and corrections could all be kinder and in a spirit of cooperation. Let's all lighten.

Now you can direct all of your ire towards me.
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« Reply #489 on: January 27, 2015, 04:44:11 PM »

Lorren,

Mr. Sunshine here. Terry Sachen passed away recently also.
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« Reply #490 on: January 27, 2015, 04:46:48 PM »


Can anyone fill me in on the truth in this matter? I never read David Leaf's books -- first one, 1978, and updated in 1985. I'm interested if David trashed me in that book. He was certainly nice to me in the interview. Out of almost two hours, he only used ten minutes -- and those ten showed me in the usual bad light. I don't blame him for using the most flashy material, but I'd like to know if I was exploited. I won't do anything about it, I'm just curious.

 Lorren Daro

I happened to read David Leaf's book ('78 version) not too long ago - Yes, Loren Darro is mentioned (as Schwartz); I don't recall reading anything too negative about Lorren personally, but that's of course only my recollection.  Lorren's recollections of Murry mouthing off about Brian during Pet Sounds (which have been repeated in this thread) are in the book; Lorren is specifically mentioned by name as personally witnessing Murry's behavior in the control booth. For what it's worth, I believed what I read here; I believed that Murry would say these things about Brian, because these comments were so consistent with other people's impressions of Murry and because we can hear Murry himself put out similar negative vibes on that notorious "Rhonda" tape.

Now, about Marilyn Wilson -  Leaf's book was notable for a number of things, one of them definitely being that it is virtually the only source in which negative opinions of her are expressed. Leaf leaves reader with the decision whether to give these opinions credence (sort of like this thread). These opinions about Marilyn are from unidentified sources; Leaf doesn't name anyone specifically here, just uses phrases like, "another friend of Brian's claims that..." For what it's worth, the claims about Marilyn (and Mike Love) in Leaf's book sound very much like what's been expressed here in this thread. In fact, the battle lines that have been discussed here - Hawthorne vs. Hipsters - were set out very clearly in the David Leaf book.
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« Reply #491 on: January 27, 2015, 04:55:19 PM »

I was typing this while Jake made his post. Doesn't add much but here it is anyway....

I just found my copy of David Leaf's book and he's not unkind to you at all, Lorren ("Loren Schwartz" in the book). He quotes you - almost verbatim, the same thing you said earlier about Murry stabbing Brian in the back and what Murry said about Brian in the control room while Brian was in the studio instructing the musicians during a Pet Sounds session. "Brian doesn't know what he's doing - no talent... I taught him everything he knows,...."

He mentions Brian taking LSD for the first time several pages before but makes no mention of Lorren. He quotes a 1966 Tom Nolan article where Brian talks very positively about taking LSD for the first time, calling it a "very religious experience", but then talks how Brian made a contradictory statement on the Mike Douglas Show in 1976, saying it "shattered my mind".
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« Reply #492 on: January 27, 2015, 05:29:55 PM »

That's true, interviews at the time show Brian speaking very positively about his first LSD experience. Brian saying "I did my dose of LSD it shattered my mind" in 76 was probably in relation to all the LSD he took, not specifically that first time.
I read David Leaf's book months ago. Lorren's posts are very similar to David Leaf's point of view of the people around him.

Lorren, Derek Taylor years ago mentioned he set up a get together between Brian and Paul McCartney around 66 or 67. Do you recall Brian saying anything to you about the this meeting ?
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« Reply #493 on: January 27, 2015, 07:06:12 PM »

but at least I'll not go down in BB history as the man who blew Brian's mind with acid and laughed about it.

The nit-picking on dates, timelines and who said what when is not the real issue certain folks here have with Mr. Daro. It's this. It's a moralistic judgement issue. You guys are pissed that Lorren provided Brian with LSD and is not only unapologetic, but actually has the audacity to believe he did Brian a favor. Maybe we should discuss that.

I will say two things here and leave it at that. First, like someone once said, judge not lest ye be judged (or something like that). Second, Brian was a big boy and did what he wanted to do. Moreover, I think we've all heard the recordings of him in the studio working on Pet Sounds. He sounds like a young guy bursting with creativity, in complete control. Not someone whose mind is "blown". Any real damage came later.
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« Reply #494 on: January 27, 2015, 07:52:36 PM »

David Anderle was there, but is too nice to trash anyone.

You referred to David Anderle in present tense, so I hate to presume that you probably aren't aware that he's also passed on.
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« Reply #495 on: January 27, 2015, 07:59:19 PM »

but at least I'll not go down in BB history as the man who blew Brian's mind with acid and laughed about it.

The nit-picking on dates, timelines and who said what when is not the real issue certain folks here have with Mr. Daro. It's this. It's a moralistic judgement issue. You guys are pissed that Lorren provided Brian with LSD and is not only unapologetic, but actually has the audacity to believe he did Brian a favor. Maybe we should discuss that.



OH, if only that were the truth! But , of course, its not. WE ( the ones that like all our ducks in a row) just want the facts to be, well, facts. The issue is whether his dates,timelines, memories jibe with KNOWN FACTS, which unfortunately, most of them don't.
  So, if you  don't care if he can remember exactly what happened then simply enjoy his posts.  DON'T attack  the others that want a correct history. Take your trips (vicariously) with one who was there, but don't expect all of us to let sham pass for fact. It's just NOT good enough.
 
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« Reply #496 on: January 27, 2015, 08:05:50 PM »

Lorren I can see why Parks and Asher say little or nothing.  You don't bite the hand that feeds you and while 'units' containing their songs with Brian continue to sell...their songs and lyrics also continue to be performed by both Brian and the Beach Boys and, as such, Mike is augmenting their pay days.  David Anderle was part of an enlightening piece I read in Crawdaddy [I think it was] WAY back when...along with Paul Williams and maybe a 3rd contributor to the lengthy article about Brian and Smile...or the lack of Smile.

At any rate...the other guy you mentioned is apparently no longer 'with us'...so that is THAT.

Not sure I saw anything in your response to my e-mail...which I was a little surprised to see posted HERE...that you haven't already said in this and also in the previous thread.  Minutia is not your thing and why would I expect it to be?  I don't.   You want to help drop the yoke you carry of being the guy who got Brian started on drugs.  It would have happened anyway.  GREAT to be able to drop a tab with someone who won't abandon you or play with your head while you're exposed to the unbelievable and unknown.  It can be VERY frightening.  And then there's the stuff laced with unwelcome extras.  So that came later.  Anyone who blames you personally is a fool.  It would have happened...and sooner than later.

In a nutshell then...you provided Brian with a few drugs of the era...known to perhaps enable creative people to take their 'craft' a little further.   Maybe see that which beforehand you had previously overlooked.   You did so somewhat unwillingly but provided clean safe...or at least safer/clean...pot and 'acid' so that Brian could experience the best there was available at the time.  Otherwise he would have and subsequently did go for more street level renditions and untimately that overtook him.  Fairly accurate?

You've pointed out that Murry was an even worse Dad than most of us would have imagined...although I think many figured that Murry was a bad man and a lousy father before you joined us here..  When your sons don't come to your funeral...well...THAT suggests something.  Burn in hell might be too strong...but close.

You have suggested that from your vantage point Marilyn let Brian down seemingly left, right, and centre and that...although she'd like it if we thought otherwise...she gets more, make that WAY more, credit than is really due.  She did raise the girls though right?  And not with a whole heap o' help from Dad.  Of course Brian didn't have any examples worth following in that regard and subsequently came up short.

You've pointed out that Mike is a champion for Mike and anyone who intercedes in that will bear the wrath of Mike.  You've given us to believe that Mike is worse than unscrupulous in that regard.  You haven't gone a whole lot further than to suggest that it's worse than we would imagine.  Mike's popularity isn't across the board.  There are those who give him varying degrees of credit for the success of the group  especially early on and then again over the past 15-20 years.  I would think that Brian, Van Dyke and Tony might well be 3 of those people...at least to a degree. [however small a degree and depending on which of the 3 you're talking about]

I know you don't want to put yourself in line for a lawsuit and as such you will not be taking this a whole lot further.  Is that safe to say?  That Brian was. seemingly misdiagnosed in terms of his illness and prescibed incorrectly with drugs which didn't help but perhaps hindered him instead...that Brian got tied up using 'sh*t' [as did his brothers?] which dragged him down and made his creative life [and personal life] a mess is docmented...and not your fault.

So?  Is there really anything left to discuss?  Based on your response to the e-mail I sent you...I'd say we're pretty much done here?  Thanks for your time.  Don't let anyone make you the scapegoat.  Anyone who buys THAT is far too easily conned.

Walk good Lorren.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 08:11:16 PM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #497 on: January 27, 2015, 10:17:50 PM »

He mentions Brian taking LSD for the first time several pages before but makes no mention of Lorren. He quotes a 1966 Tom Nolan article where Brian talks very positively about taking LSD for the first time, calling it a "very religious experience", but then talks how Brian made a contradictory statement on the Mike Douglas Show in 1976, saying it "shattered my mind".

I seem to recall an interview with Brian in the early 90's (maybe Diane Sawyer?) where Brian said "I took the LSD and it tore my head off!"
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« Reply #498 on: January 27, 2015, 11:38:05 PM »

Thought I'd come down off my lurking perch and join the fray....not to flog a dead horse (hopefully).
There are so many agendas (hidden and otherwise) shining through on this thread, the glare gets a bit intense sometimes.
What is this great need to pass judgement all about anyway? We all have the wonderful opportunity to have a window into history, whether stained glass or clear according to interpretation, and we try to smear bird poop all over it. Why not just sit back and enjoy conversing with a wonderful character, maybe even pivotal character, from Brian's past prime and seminal era. I can't speak for you, but I'm stoked to hear anything remembered from this living horse's mouth. So f****ing what if he has Rubber Soul and Revolver backwards? Does that somehow prove he doesn't exist?
Sing on sweet horse, we are all ears.
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« Reply #499 on: January 28, 2015, 12:34:34 AM »

Sing on sweet horse, we are all ears.
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Are sweeter; therefore, Sing on sweet horse, we are all ears.
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