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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 233855 times)
Lee Marshall
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« Reply #425 on: January 25, 2015, 05:24:54 AM »

These explanations of what 'went down' back in 1966ish are quite revealing Darren.  In a sense it's almost NOT 'our' business yet the information helps us to see things, which are imprtant to us, more clearly.  So...we investigate.

It's difficult to react to parents as an ADULT/a peer which is what Brian needed to do to get Murry off his case and away from detracting from the work at hand.  We've learned enough to see that Murry was pretty much a bully.  Too bad no one was able to control him BEFORE he impacted so negatively on his family.  As for Marilyn...I'm sure she felt empowered to 'join in' having watched the others close to Brian 'play' him in order to try and run the show to their own advantage.  Looks, ultimately, like THAT backfired.  Brian dealt with them both...eventually.  Well...you did point out way back when you first joined us that Brian wasn't confrontational.

Perhaps in becoming somewhat moreso in that regard, thanks in part to guidance you seem to have provided, he did step up to be counted but still wasn't really all that  adept at doing it?  Yes?  No?

Anyway I'm getting to the question.  It's one thing to deal with the father figure...who clearly deserved what he got.  I think we knew that before you arrived.  It's also one thing to deal with your 'life partner' when that scenario turns out to be seen as a one-way street...but what about Mike?  He wasn't just a cousin...he was an important and key component of a very successful unit which was working to Brian's benefit in different ways.  You two must have talked about THAT?  Did Brian ever consider firing Mike?  As it was Mike's 'place' in the group began to slide from view at THAT time.  He sang a lower and lower percentage of leads.  He wrote fewer lyrics used by the group going forward and his presence on stage became less and less commanding at least until the mid 70s when suddenly everything shifted back in his direction...thanks to Endless Summer and 15 'Over Inflated' Ones.  Was there a specific effort...under the table so to speak...to put Mike in his place...or at least to move him back into the shadows?  It couldn't have been a coincidence that he sort of faded back into the 'pack'.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 05:46:29 AM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #426 on: January 25, 2015, 06:02:00 AM »

Hi Lorren,

Somebody has to ask:

Did you ever get a sense of Brian's competitiveness with The Beatles? In particular did you witness a sense of defeat in him when they released the Strawberry Fields Forever single, or Sgt Pepper album, in relation to his own inability to complete Smile?

You said there were Beatles records in the Jukebox at Brian's at that point. What were his (and your) favourites at the time?

Many thanks
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 06:05:46 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #427 on: January 25, 2015, 06:58:43 AM »

MrRobinsonsFather:  If it was 1976 that Landy showed up, then I'm really wrong about the timeline. I wish my memory was more specific. Yes, I left Brian in 1966. Since I was gone, I am very hazy about what happened later. The news was all second hand. Sorry. Maybe you can write out a clear timeline for me that would help jog my memory. I seem to remember the days events, but not the calendar...

Sorry my mistake, Landy first appeared in 1975. I was going to do a quick timeline but remembered you can go to straight to Andrew's website and find more than enough detail there :
http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/bbtimeline.html

I just thought of 2 questions

1. When you visited Brian in the mid 70's did you notice his vocal change from the previous time you had seen him. Everyone's voice changes with age but Brian had done damage to his vocal chords in just a matter of a couple of years (much like Harry Nilsson).
Could you describe that visit.

2. How many lsd trips would you say Brian took without you. There are different accounts with how many trips he took. Brian says in recent years it was only the one trip, but most accounts including his wife Melinda say it was at least more than three.


Thanks Lorren
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« Reply #428 on: January 25, 2015, 09:41:27 AM »

Coca Cola or Pepsi?
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« Reply #429 on: January 25, 2015, 10:15:19 AM »

2. Ask yourself if your contribution has any value other than attempting to derail the thread?

And correcting someone's recall and providing an accurate framework/timeline is attempting to derail this thread... how, exactly ?
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« Reply #430 on: January 25, 2015, 12:25:14 PM »

Lorren,

What about Capitol Records?

1. How did they pressure Brian, and was he the only one they hounded?

2. Did they ever show up at the studio and hassle him while he was trying to record?

3. Did you ever see, or did Brian ever say, that he was encountering trouble at the studio(s) in regards to him "touching" the consoles/studio equipment? (you know, Union Rules and all that)

4. Are you aware of any hassles Brian encountered with them regarding "Singles" releases?

Thanks, Royce Smiley
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« Reply #431 on: January 25, 2015, 12:56:16 PM »

Lorren - I don't believe this has been asked yet, but have you any information regarding the handwritten list (which has been determined not be in Brian's handwriting, but possibly Carl's or Diane Rovell's) of tracks which was used to create the (temporary?) back cover of the Smile album?   It would have been written (as far as I know) sometime around December of 1966.  There has been a lot of controversy over this list for a long time.    
Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 12:58:40 PM by OneEar/OneEye » Logged
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« Reply #432 on: January 25, 2015, 01:01:48 PM »

2. Ask yourself if your contribution has any value other than attempting to derail the thread?

And correcting someone's recall and providing an accurate framework/timeline is attempting to derail this thread... how, exactly ?

It obviously wasn't clear but the post you quoted was directed towards the two posts previous to it. Not yours.
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« Reply #433 on: January 25, 2015, 01:35:51 PM »

buddhahat, you have played a fundamental role in bringing Daro back, or keeping him here. You have pacified what seemed a derailed thread. For that, I must thank you. I'm sure most people here -Lorren Daro included- share my thoughts. Nevertheless, your baroque and relentless praising (cheering?) for him, and your generaly unnecessary defense, is dangeroulsy starting to resemble this:





I'm affraid you are becoming Daro's Chester. Please, do not.
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« Reply #434 on: January 25, 2015, 02:12:46 PM »


 .....Daro's Chester......


This just struck me as a nifty name for a band  LOL 

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« Reply #435 on: January 25, 2015, 03:22:12 PM »

buddhahat, you have played a fundamental role in bringing Daro back, or keeping him here. You have pacified what seemed a derailed thread. For that, I must thank you. I'm sure most people here -Lorren Daro included- share my thoughts. Nevertheless, your baroque and relentless praising (cheering?) for him, and your generaly unnecessary defense, is dangeroulsy starting to resemble this:


I'm affraid you are becoming Daro's Chester. Please, do not.

If you're going to insult me, at least spare me the condescending preamble but ...



point taken  Shrug
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« Reply #436 on: January 25, 2015, 04:00:59 PM »

buddhahat, you have played a fundamental role in bringing Daro back, or keeping him here. You have pacified what seemed a derailed thread. For that, I must thank you. I'm sure most people here -Lorren Daro included- share my thoughts. Nevertheless, your baroque and relentless praising (cheering?) for him, and your generaly unnecessary defense, is dangeroulsy starting to resemble this:


I'm affraid you are becoming Daro's Chester. Please, do not.

If you're going to insult me, at least spare me the condescending preamble but ...



point taken  Shrug

I don't think that was intended as condescention. I think he was just saying, you stuck up for Daro when no one else would and helped bring him back, which is good. But now you're being overly protective of him (while calling out others for being too protective of Brian) and its kinda off-putting. There's such thing as healthy criticism and fact-checking, so just relax. Daro's a big boy and can defend himself.
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« Reply #437 on: January 25, 2015, 06:17:51 PM »

I think he was just saying, you stuck up for Daro when no one else would and helped bring him back

That is incorrect. If you look back on the thread, you'll see quite a few of us that "stuck up for Daro" and wanted him to come back. It was the right thing to do.
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« Reply #438 on: January 25, 2015, 06:39:27 PM »

I think he was just saying, you stuck up for Daro when no one else would and helped bring him back

That is incorrect. If you look back on the thread, you'll see quite a few of us that "stuck up for Daro" and wanted him to come back. It was the right thing to do.

Yeah, it is nice he came back, whether you believe him or not.

I guess a better way to phrase it is buddhahat took up the cause more passionately than anyone else. Which is nice, but it's kinda weird and unnecessary at this point where you can't say anything even slightly critical of the man without buddhahat (in his own words, more or less, but in reference to me) charging in on his white horse to save the day. that's been my perception lurking through the thread, and evidently I'm not alone. I mean, it's not a big deal, but it is a valid point to raise against someone who criticizes the rest of us for being too protective of Brian. Since he's come back, no one has been abusive or even overtly hostile to Daro. So...just let the man defend himself. I'm sure he's quite capable
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« Reply #439 on: January 25, 2015, 07:01:27 PM »

Why even bring it up I think many of us are wondering.
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« Reply #440 on: January 25, 2015, 07:44:22 PM »

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« Reply #441 on: January 25, 2015, 08:03:30 PM »


I didn’t perceive Brian’s social or musical environment they way you all are doing. I wasn’t collecting minutiae, I was doing social work and therapy. I wanted to give him the balls to stick up for himself and to understand the magnitude of his talent. After the LSD, he began to see things in a different way, and the troika didn’t like it at all. They saw the changes as all my fault, and I became the villain. But, I will tell you here: I don’t give a sh*t what they, or anyone else, thinks or thought. I’m not a fool. I knew what I was doing. Aside from a coat and a nail clipper, I never took a thing from Brian. It was my contribution to the world that I bring it a strong, fully self-aware, enlightened artist. I only got partway there, but it was enough for him to get rid of Murry, to divorce Marilyn, to stop taking sh*t from ML and to find his own artistic path, beyond all the commercial expectations of everyone around him. I helped him do that, and I’m proud of it.



1, You clearly do as proven by many of your posts.

2, Yes, you really were a wonderfully positive influence.


 I wasn’t aware of Brian destroying tapes. My impression during that visit to Bellagio, was that Brian was frantic and falling apart. All those negative forces were falling in on him. I didn’t get the music I heard. He played several different versions but I couldn’t sort them out. He was clearly on drugs, and it was the last time I was interested in seeing him. There was nothing I could do to help him…


Yes, clearly you loved Brian so very much. Are you too over educated to understand the term 'fairweather friend'?


I dunno. I think the above reactions to Lorren were inappropriate. Would you treat someone like that to their face? I think Buddahat was right to respond to those posts the way he did and I think those that are now piling on Buddahat should seriously examine their motivations.

Well, not to derail the thread, as I was just trying to get buddhahat to consider that he wasn't being condescended to, and the other guy had a valid point, but I'd like to respond to this.

I said far worse to Daro on the thread that was pulled. I have no regrets about it and I'd absolutely say it to his face had he also said what he had in my physical presence. I'm sure these guys would to. Just because they're not positive comments doesn't make them hostile or abusive.

If buddhahat wants to be Daro's "cheerleader/defender" for lack of better terms, that's his business. But it's kinda unnecessary, and apparently I'm not alone in thinking so. This is a grown man here. Let him defend himself. I've endured far worse on this board and elsewhere and I'm sure I'm not alone. He chose to come back, knowing what to expect. Give him a little credit. Especially if you're going to raise the point that I and others are "too protective of Brian."

But, I really don't want to shift focus here. Daro came back to answer questions and that's what this thread is for now. I just thought that since someone else brought it up, and buddhahat brushed it off, that I should reiterate that it really does seem unnecessary, to be someone else's second mouth every time they get a reply that isn't 100% lauditory.
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #442 on: January 25, 2015, 08:17:58 PM »


Les P: See my answer to Tricycle Rider. Brian wasn’t falling apart. He was frustrated and nerve-wracked and isolated. And he was definitely aware of the problem but didn’t know how to deal with it.


Thanks again.  I am trying to get a handle on how Brian ended up isolated.  You, Michael Vosse, David Anderle, Van Dyke Parks, and Derek Taylor all left the scene eventually.  Was it just an untenable and hopeless situation to stay around (that is the impression I get) or did Brian initiate cutting some ties as well?  

Also, you've talked about Brian's romantic feelings for Diane Rovell, but she also served a role coordinating musicians for sessions, etc.  Did you consider her to be supportive of Brian?

Edit:  I don't remember seeing this discussed (sorry if I missed it), but do you remember Brian being disappointed by the sales of 'Pet Sounds' and perhaps by Capitol's lack of support?   Although he went into the "Good Vibrations" and 'Smile' projects, did that cause self-doubt for him?   (Capitol released a greatest hits album less than 2 months after 'Pet Sounds' release).

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« Reply #443 on: January 25, 2015, 10:21:07 PM »

Aside from the now-obvious impossibility of asking Michael Vosse to confirm Lorren's presence during the Pet Sounds sessions, there's something else lurking in the deeper, darker recesses of my mind about him (Vosse) and said album. Got some reading & Googling to do after work.

Later: OK, from what I know of when Brian first met Vosse - for the latter to do an interview for Teen Set - and what Vosse himself said about the Frank Zappa interview that preceded it (and that it was printed in the 12/66 issue), I'm getting the very strong impression that Michael first met Brian after Pet Sounds was released.  Corrections, thoughts, additions, heartfelt requests to STFU ?
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« Reply #444 on: January 25, 2015, 10:57:35 PM »

 I am trying to get a handle on how Brian ended up isolated.  You, Michael Vosse, David Anderle, Van Dyke Parks, and Derek Taylor all left the scene eventually.  Was it just an untenable and hopeless situation to stay around (that is the impression I get) or did Brian initiate cutting some ties as well?  

It's long been documented that Brian forced at least Vosse and Siegel out of the picture by his (to them) irrational behaviour: the former by refusing to see him at a delicate point in negotiations with Capitol over the release of "H&V" on Brother, the latter because he got it into his head that Siegel's gf was a witch and messing with his head. I think Van Dyke officially left when offered an album deal by Warners but he's also stated that he walked away from an apparently impossible (family/band) situation.
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« Reply #445 on: January 25, 2015, 11:33:57 PM »

I am trying to get a handle on how Brian ended up isolated.  You, Michael Vosse, David Anderle, Van Dyke Parks, and Derek Taylor all left the scene eventually.  Was it just an untenable and hopeless situation to stay around (that is the impression I get) or did Brian initiate cutting some ties as well?  

It's long been documented that Brian forced at least Vosse and Siegel out of the picture by his (to them) irrational behaviour: the former by refusing to see him at a delicate point in negotiations with Capitol over the release of "H&V" on Brother, the latter because he got it into his head that Siegel's gf was a witch and messing with his head. I think Van Dyke officially left when offered an album deal by Warners but he's also stated that he walked away from an apparently impossible (family/band) situation.

Thanks, Andrew.  I am familiar with these accounts (though I had forgotten the Vosse negotiations bit), but I am curious if Lorren has additional information or opinions about these departures.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 11:43:16 PM by Les P » Logged
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« Reply #446 on: January 25, 2015, 11:34:05 PM »

 
Mujan - I was responding to two posts only, which I found unnecessarily sarcastic and didn't really bring anything to the discussion imo and felt like a thread crap. I have no problem with people flagging up inaccuracies in Daro's account, providing it's not the usual mindless  'this guy's full of sh*t' approach. This is less about being Daro's Chester (nice one, Putin) and more about just trying to defend the thread itself so Daro is more inclined to post here.

All the above said however I accept the accusations of hypocrisy on my part. I may have gone too far and can see that this itself is now distracting and has become an irritant to some, hence my 'point taken' comment.  
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 04:09:46 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #447 on: January 26, 2015, 03:54:54 AM »

Are you the one who turned Brian on to the comedy LP "How To Speak Hip" by Del Close and John Brent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6a7X96L0Y4

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« Reply #448 on: January 26, 2015, 05:04:33 AM »


Mujan - I was responding to two posts only, which I found unnecessarily sarcastic and didn't really bring anything to the discussion imo and felt like a thread crap. I have no problem with people flagging up inaccuracies in Daro's account, providing it's not the usual mindless  'this guy's full of sh*t' approach. This is less about being Daro's Chester (nice one, Putin) and more about just trying to defend the thread itself so Daro is more inclined to post here.

Hardly that.

Anyone who starts a sentence with, `It was my contribution to the world...` is asking for an awful lot more than he has received so far. People have generally been understanding and accepting in the face of plenty of antagonism and inaccuracy.

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« Reply #449 on: January 26, 2015, 09:00:24 AM »

Wild-Honey:  Oh, yes, cute one. Murry and Marilyn and Mike – the three M’s, as in murderous mf’ers, were the troika of villains in Brian’s life. And, they won the trifecta, bringing him down like a giant sequoia. My mission is to expose them.


Paul J B: Crazy to hate MURRY!!! Where the f* is your head? A more brutal, narcissistic, insane psychopath is difficult to imagine. Please leave me alone.


My head is right where it should be.... You seem to not know that we've heard all of this crap before from a guy named Landy, who also promoted himself as a great guy that only had Brian's best interest at heart. Good luck with your agenda. I will leave you alone now.
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