The Lorren Daro Thread

[alf wiedersehen]

I don't like all the seeming secrecy recently concerning moderator actions. They should be open and tell us what's going instead of making things disappear without so much as a single word. Besides, it's entirely possible to delete and edit posts to get rid of what they don't think is okay, and not just eradicate an entire conversation that many people took part in.

[puni puni]

Would there be anything left once you edited out the defamatory stuff?

The truly defamatory stuff comprised only 15% of the post while the other 85% was about things nobody (I hope) cares about. He wrote a paragraph defending his I-introduced-Brian-to-LSD story, another paragraph about his nobody-asked-me-but-here's-why-I-changed-my-name-from-Schwartz story, a couple sentences denying that he was ever a 'sycophant' to Brian, and a few more sentences which contain several vindictive accusations toward Marilyn. This board doesn't need any more threads like that.

There was also nothing about him calling Brian an "idiot savant", not sure where that came from.

[37!ws]

I didn't see the thread at all, but I WOULD have asked why he changed his name.   (And since Beautiful Dreamer came out I thought his last name was changed to "Darg"! Must have been that weird font they used for CG.)

[Michael Edward Osbourne]

Gotta say that it's hasn't been boring here the last few days...Mike Love checkin' out the board, Loren pissing almost everybody off, Brian says hello...I'm glad I stuck around for it. It surely has broken up the mundane week I've been having.

[puni puni]

Well it was to avoid anti-semitic confrontations while living in the "WASP-dominated Monterey Peninsula," in his words. Mystery solved.

[Smilin Ed H]

Oh, come on. The guy, Daro or not,  wasn't here to share insights or provide information. He was here to inflame. The post title was about answering criticism of his "essay" that was written two years ago and that no one had been discussing, much less criticizing,  since it came out in the first place. He cut and pasted the same comments here and in a dead thread about it over at the Hoffman board.  He claimed he was here to defend himself, "taking on all comers" but all he did was spew invective and get everyone riled up.  Then he disappeared from both boards, with no real information given.

The Hoffman board realized this wasn't beneficial and took the thread down yesterday. Our mods did the same today. Probably had zero to do with Brian popping in and everything to do with the trolling nature of the whole thing. No loss, I say.

I thought it was taken down because there was no mention of the Beatles...   

[joshferrell]

Would there be anything left once you edited out the defamatory stuff?

The truly defamatory stuff comprised only 15% of the post while the other 85% was about things nobody (I hope) cares about. He wrote a paragraph defending his I-introduced-Brian-to-LSD story, another paragraph about his nobody-asked-me-but-here's-why-I-changed-my-name-from-Schwartz story, a couple sentences denying that he was ever a 'sycophant' to Brian, and a few more sentences which contain several vindictive accusations toward Marilyn. This board doesn't need any more threads like that.

There was also nothing about him calling Brian an "idiot savant", not sure where that came from.

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it..

[Dancing Bear]

I'm sorry, buddhahat, I respect you as a poster, but it's not exactly right to say like "yes, he might be rude about Marilyn, but he was there, it's a 1st-hand account". But then it means others close to Marilyn have been giving wrong impression of her, including Brian. All I ever heard & seen shows the opposite image, that she was 'loving', 'nice lady', 'good wife'... Yes, she hired Landy, but how could she possibly know about his evil intentions? The guy sounded a bit tipsy coming here all of a sudden & posting his gibberish.

I don't share his beliefs about Marilyn. Agreed - all we ever hear about her is positive so his comments are surprising to say the least.

Nevertheless, if we were to ban all threads and posts that in some way insult The Beach Boys, their friends and family, then this board would be pretty thin on the ground.

I sense that the offence caused by Daro's comments is directly proportionate to people's feelings towards those insulted i.e. the board as a whole likes Marilyn and Brian, therefore what an evil man this Lorren Daro must be. Would he have been so readily chased away had he been solely slating Mike Love and Dr Landy? Personally I doubt it.

My point is, as a board, we either permit negative comments about principal players or we don't. Otherwise we might as well draw up a list of who's ok to bash and who isn't. My guess is, the list would be something like this:

Not OK to insult:
Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, David Marks, Marilyn

OK to insult:
Mike Love, Eugene Landy, Jeff Foskett, Lorren Darro, Charles Manson

Contentious:
Van Dyke Parks, Bruce, Melinda, Darian

^^^ Ridiculous, right? But honestly, I do see evidence of this hypocrisy here.

Totally agree. Loren's mistake was bashing the wrong people. If he had just written that Mike is "devil-like", "fucking slimeball" and the likes the thread would still be up and running, 18 pages at the least.

This place is like the old Male Ego Board but just for one kind of insults. The other kind is out of line, insulting and verboten.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I didn't see the thread at all, but I WOULD have asked why he changed his name.   (And since Beautiful Dreamer came out I thought his last name was changed to "Darg"! Must have been that weird font they used for CG.)

According to something I read, he changed his name to balance the cyphers.

[puni puni]

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it..

Oh, I could only find a cache of the thread on Google which shows the opening post and nothing else.

[joshferrell]

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it..

Oh, I could only find a cache of the thread on Google which shows the opening post and nothing else.

yup... it looked like he was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Brian COULDN'T do Smile without Van Dyke Parks because Van Dyke is a Genius and Brian doesn't know what he's doing (Hence an "Idiot Savant") and that's why Smile was never finished , hence him also saying that Brian didn't write his own lyrics etc, at least that's what I got out of it... maybe others got a different interpretation than I with that remark.. but either way it's disturbing..

[RONDEMON]

That was not Lorren Daro.

I have no reason to believe that wasn't him...
I googled "Loren Daro Productions" and there's a LOT of stuff out there that would seem as though he's legit. He even has a LinkedIn page. I'm not sure if someone would go to those lengths to make Amazon reviews and other stuff attributed to his name.

Anyone want to do some emailing to his gmail account?

[Cam Mott]

I have no idea if it was Lorren or not.

I do not agree with the choice of words and think some of the opinions are out of line in my opinion.

Je Suis Lorren or fake Lorren.

[puni puni]

His statements were reposted on his "Brian Wilson and LSD" Wordpress page as an additional comment, where he also continues to claim that I Just Wasn't Made for These Times and Good Vibrations were written about him and his wife, and that BDW had privately confirmed it to him. Too bad he has little credibility at this point.

[Mikie]

It's unfortunate that it was nuked.  We could have learned something.

Exactly.  

We probably could have learned more. We all feel strongly about the drugs, but let the guy speak. We already read a lot of CRAP here anyway, so what do we have to loose? I think, given at least a warning, that his attitude and slanderous disposition could have been adjusted. If he was warned and he kept doing it, then all bets are off. If it wasn't the real Lorren Shwartz/Daro, then of course all bets are off again.

And Buddahat, your posts were all good ones and each one reflected my thoughts exactly about this.

[drbeachboy]

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it..

Oh, I could only find a cache of the thread on Google which shows the opening post and nothing else.

yup... it looked like he was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Brian COULDN'T do Smile without Van Dyke Parks because Van Dyke is a Genius and Brian doesn't know what he's doing (Hence an "Idiot Savant") and that's why Smile was never finished , hence him also saying that Brian didn't write his own lyrics etc, at least that's what I got out of it... maybe others got a different interpretation than I with that remark.. but either way it's disturbing..

Not what an idiot savant means. It means that Brian was a music genius (Savant), but knows little of anything else, in this case being a lyricist. Just a very harsh way of saying that Brian could not write lyrics close to what Van Dyke Parks did for Smile.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's unfortunate that it was nuked.  We could have learned something.

Exactly.  

We probably could have learned more. We all feel strongly about the drugs, but let the guy speak. We already read a lot of CRAP here anyway, so what do we have to loose? I think, given at least a warning, that his attitude and slanderous disposition could have been adjusted. If he was warned and he kept doing it, then all bets are off. If it wasn't the real Lorren Shwartz/Daro, then of course all bets are off again.

And Buddahat, your posts were all good ones and each one reflected my thoughts exactly about this.

"The guy" spoke - he came out of nowhere, allegedly to correct the criticism of an online article that was over two years old and has no listed critical comments anyway.

Strike one...

His chosen mode of expression was, shall we say, ill-chosen ?

Strike two...

There was nothing new that was in any way credible ("Brian confirmed it to me..." doesn't fly, Orville), there were several gross errors of fact and some of the tales related differed significantly from earlier versions.

Strike three - yer out !

[SBonilla]

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it..

Oh, I could only find a cache of the thread on Google which shows the opening post and nothing else.

yup... it looked like he was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Brian COULDN'T do Smile without Van Dyke Parks because Van Dyke is a Genius and Brian doesn't know what he's doing (Hence an "Idiot Savant") and that's why Smile was never finished , hence him also saying that Brian didn't write his own lyrics etc, at least that's what I got out of it... maybe others got a different interpretation than I with that remark.. but either way it's disturbing..

Brian wouldn't have made Smile without Van Dyke Parks. It would have been a different album with a different collaborator. Even if all the melodies existed before the words, the absence of VDP's inspiration and musical input would have made for a very different record.

The term now used for 'idiot savant' is 'autistic savant.' Maybe that is how he sees Brian. I wouldn't have used either term.
I think what he meant is that Brian is highly gifted in the area of music, especially in arranging, harmony, melody writing and production and that he wasn't enough of a lyricist to author a Surf's Up or a Cabinessence.

[Andrew G. Doe]

He flatly stated that Brian never wrote any lyrics, period, that they were the uncredited work of Mike, Usher, Christian et al, as confirmed - like so much of his piece - by Brian in private conversation. Then, illogically, he gives Mike grief for trying to get that credit recognised. Heads I win, tails you loose.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

He flatly stated that Brian never wrote any lyrics, period, that they were the uncredited work of Mike, Usher, Christian et al, as confirmed - like so much of his piece - by Brian in private conversation. Then, illogically, he gives Mike grief for trying to get that credit recognised. Heads I win, tails you loose.

Perhaps that is the answer?  Something is loose?  Maybe what we saw wasn't an imposter or an attempt to falsely accuse, but instead the actions of someone who can't properly remember the past and is empowered by the internet to display that factual failing?

[Jason Penick]

Pulling the thread was a positively Hoffmanesque move. Why not just let the guy have his say and debate him if you don't agree? Way too many people here not willing to even listen to a narrative that contradicts their own. Now cue AGD intoning how we can't believe anything he says because he was wrong about Brian never writing lyrics.

EDIT: See he beat me to it.

[buddhahat]

Pulling the thread was a positively Hoffmanesque move. Why not just let the guy have his say and debate him if you don't agree? Way too many people here not willing to even listen to a narrative that contradicts their own. Now cue AGD intoning how we can't believe anything he says because he was wrong about Brian never writing lyrics.

EDIT: See he beat me to it.

Hear, hear!

[Lee Marshall]

So Charles...The guy raised some dust...and...as it turned out...still left no tracks?   

We're just here...now...following the scent?

[buddhahat]

I don't need to know a person in order to get an impression.  He made one.  It wasn't favourable.

His appearance in the Beautiful Dreamer DVD told me a lot. I mean, his physical appearance...

This is exactly what I mean. What has his physical appearance got to do with anything? Call yourself a historian? Do you always factor in somebody's appearance when judging the validity of their recollections?

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

So Charles...The guy raised some dust...and...as it turned out...still left no tracks?   

We're just here...now...following the scent?

Almost everything has a price to obtain.