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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 75295 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2015, 11:03:50 AM »

I don't need to know a person in order to get an impression.  He made one.  It wasn't favourable.

His appearance in the Beautiful Dreamer DVD told me a lot. I mean, his physical appearance...

This is exactly what I mean. What has his physical appearance got to do with anything? Call yourself a historian? Do you always factor in somebody's appearance when judging the validity of their recollections?


I balance it with what they're saying. He chose to look like a slimeball and giggle his way through a serious and highly contentious topic: doesn't inspire confidence. The bigger question is, WFT was he doing there in the first place ?

As for my credentials as an historian, they may be questionable (many have), but at least I have the balls to post under my own name and not hide behind a pseudonym.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 11:18:10 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2015, 11:06:03 AM »

For those interested, I asked Lorren Daro about his claims that he and his wife inspired IJWMFTT and GV respectively. Here's what he had to say. It's up on his site so I presume he won't mind me sharing it here. I'm sure there'll be a lot of skepticism (and fair enough) but I thought some of you might be interested to read it anyway. As always with these things - who knows for sure (apart from AGD of course)? As he voluntarily withdrew from the threads I urge people not to go over to his page and give him further grief about this but each to their own.

Hi, Buddhahat:

Thanks for your support. I left the Smiley Smile site voluntarily. The invective I got was beyond belief. There were some who were rational and encouraging, but not many. This country is so f***ed up…

At the age I knew Brian, I was out of sync with my time. We talked about it many times. I had quit three major agency jobs, sick from the lying. I hated working nine to five, the LA freeways were driving me nuts. etc, etc. The culture was still in the militant fifties. Brian told me directly that he wrote the song for me — out of pity, I assume. Brian, however, was exactly right for his time. That’s why the group was an instant hit. All of Brian’s songs were pertinent for his young audience. The fit with his audience was perfect.

Brian was in love with my wife, Lynda — many were. Sweet and foxy and gentle. She went around saying, “Good vibes”, all the time. Listen to the lyrics, they’re about a girl he loves from afar and can’t have. Since Brian could never say that he wrote songs about me and mine, he covered by saying the one about me was about him — absurd. He claimed that ‘Vibrations’ was about his mother, Audrey. Even more absurd. And, again, he told me directly that the song was about Lynda.

Why should I lie about this? What’s the advantage to a 77 year old man? I’m not the type to brag or make points by claiming his songs are about me. I never cashed in or profited from my relationship with Brian. I only wish to clear my vilified name for having ‘ruined’ Brian — which I did not. I saved him many times by fending off the villains around him — confronting them when he couldn’t.

Thanks for asking. I’m done with this project. You can’t change people’s minds when they don’t want them changed. The essay was enough. What’s that line from Sam Peckinpah? “I want to enter my house justified.”
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« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2015, 11:18:34 AM »

Well ya...Makes some sense when spelled out THAT way.  But the method he chose to accomplish his goals...wasn't going to get him from here over to point B.  It ain't the people here so much as he himself who sabotaged his intentions'.  As such the chance to enter his house justified was squandered.

Getting another guys attention by hoofing him square in the 'coins' seldom works out as well as the kicker might have envisioned.  Kickees...kick back.
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« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2015, 11:20:53 AM »

I think that it's (unfortunately) a minority opinion that the thread should have stayed up, but it's one that I concur with. While Daro's remarks were immoderate in places, there was an opportunity to possibly learn something new about the events surrounding Brian Wilson's most creative period. That shouldn't be tossed away due to some initial negativity and disrespect. Marilyn Wilson has endured much worse than those remarks--though I want to be clear that I in no way condone them.

Brian has survived so much more than what at most would be a tempest in a teapot that I must wonder about the motivations involved here. While it might turn out that a) this person is a fake or b) this person is real but is so flawed by age and the bitterness of lingering memory that the result of engagement/interrogation would prove fruitless, it was nonetheless an opportunity that was quickly and summarily flushed down the toilet.

It's clear from what buddahat posted that the chances of this person re-engaging are slim; he made a mistake by coming on with such intemperate remarks, but the nuclear response and the moralizing that's followed in its wake is extremely disappointing. Just what is it that we are afraid of finding out? How could it be any worse that what Nick Kent or Steven Gaines have already put out there??
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« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2015, 11:28:18 AM »

For those interested, I asked Lorren Daro about his claims that he and his wife inspired IJWMFTT and GV respectively. Here's what he had to say. It's up on his site so I presume he won't mind me sharing it here. I'm sure there'll be a lot of skepticism (and fair enough) but I thought some of you might be interested to read it anyway. As always with these things - who knows for sure (apart from AGD of course)? As he voluntarily withdrew from the threads I urge people not to go over to his page and give him further grief about this but each to their own.

Hi, Buddhahat:

Thanks for your support. I left the Smiley Smile site voluntarily.

Let's see what the mods have to say.

Quote
The invective I got was beyond belief. There were some who were rational and encouraging, but not many. This country is so f***ed up…

Pot. Kettle. Black... and some of us are not American.

Quote
At the age I knew Brian, I was out of sync with my time. We talked about it many times. I had quit three major agency jobs, sick from the lying. I hated working nine to five, the LA freeways were driving me nuts. etc, etc. The culture was still in the militant fifties. Brian told me directly that he wrote the song for me — out of pity, I assume. Brian, however, was exactly right for his time. That’s why the group was an instant hit. All of Brian’s songs were pertinent for his young audience. The fit with his audience was perfect.

Brian was in love with my wife, Lynda — many were. Sweet and foxy and gentle. She went around saying, “Good vibes”, all the time. Listen to the lyrics, they’re about a girl he loves from afar and can’t have. Since Brian could never say that he wrote songs about me and mine, he covered by saying the one about me was about him — absurd. He claimed that ‘Vibrations’ was about his mother, Audrey. Even more absurd. And, again, he told me directly that the song was about Lynda.

Looks like Darro has - most conveniently - forgotten that he's claimed Brian never wrote any of his own lyrics. Those lyrics are unquestionably Mike's, just as the other set is unquestionably Tony's. I call bull, and sh*t.

Oh, and it's Audree, btw.

Quote
Why should I lie about this? What’s the advantage to a 77 year old man? I’m not the type to brag or make points by claiming his songs are about me. I never cashed in or profited from my relationship with Brian. I only wish to clear my vilified name for having ‘ruined’ Brian — which I did not. I saved him many times by fending off the villains around him — confronting them when he couldn’t.

Thanks for asking. I’m done with this project. You can’t change people’s minds when they don’t want them changed. The essay was enough. What’s that line from Sam Peckinpah? “I want to enter my house justified.”[/i]

Answered his own question.
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« Reply #80 on: January 20, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »

I think that it's (unfortunately) a minority opinion that the thread should have stayed up, but it's one that I concur with. While Daro's remarks were immoderate in places, there was an opportunity to possibly learn something new about the events surrounding Brian Wilson's most creative period.

I question that, on these grounds: if one part of his piece can be shown to be totally incorrect, then the credibility of the rest is suspect. So happens he is utterly wrong about Mike & the family influencing the 1991 pseudobiography in any way whatsoever, for the reasons I stated in the original thread, that is that at that time Brian was not in contact with anyone not approved by Landy, and that included the rest of the band and his family, thus there was no possible conduit for any such influence. I doubt Landy would have given it a seconds thought anyway. So, in this respect Darro is at best mistaken, less charitably lying, any way you slice it plain wrong. Ergo, the rest of his narrative is suspect, especially as in places it differs from an earlier version.
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« Reply #81 on: January 20, 2015, 11:39:04 AM »

Looks like Darro has - most conveniently - forgotten that he's claimed Brian never wrote any of his own lyrics. Those lyrics are unquestionably Mike's, just as the other set is unquestionably Tony's. I call bull, and sh*t.

Oh, and it's Audree, btw.

So yer tellin' me Mike wrote a song about how he found his aunt Audree to be rather saucy?

(I'm just sayin'! I have no idea what to make of Darro and am honestly bored by most of this brand of drama, I just found this to be kinda funny.)
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« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2015, 11:41:28 AM »

Quote
Why should I lie about this? What’s the advantage to a 77 year old man? I’m not the type to brag or make points by claiming his songs are about me. I never cashed in or profited from my relationship with Brian. I only wish to clear my vilified name for having ‘ruined’ Brian — which I did not. I saved him many times by fending off the villains around him — confronting them when he couldn’t.

Thanks for asking. I’m done with this project. You can’t change people’s minds when they don’t want them changed. The essay was enough. What’s that line from Sam Peckinpah? “I want to enter my house justified.”[/i]

Answered his own question.

That's actually funny. Cheesy I had spotted the inconsistency between claiming Brian wrote no lyrics and Brian writing IJWMFTT and GV about Darro and his wife, but this I overlooked! Smiley
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« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2015, 11:46:50 AM »

Anyone who was 'there' and is still alive to tell the story should be allowed to share their side no matter how dubious the claims are, but it's in extremely bad taste to leave up his baseless and acidic remarks, let alone post them one day after The Man Himself visited.

At best, Darro could have said his piece about the lyrics, and then after asking Tony Asher/Van Dyke Parks/et. al for corroboration, we can come away all the more enlightened about the history of these songs.
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« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2015, 11:49:42 AM »

Short answer: The thread was moved out after word came that the Hoffman forum had deleted the same post and follow-up discussions on their board. The mods who were on board last night discussed this and the decision was made to do the same thing, until further notice. And that is simply what was done. If further clarification is necessary, it can be posted later.

Here's the thing: We all work, we have different schedules, we're not always on board at the same time. Therefore, some of the discussions and decisions that are made can be delayed until another mod or mods can discuss it. Or simply, we may not be on the board when things like this go down, but try to address them when we do get on the board. As in this case. And it's not over.

No one was forced off the board, banned from the board, or in another way asked to leave the board. It was voluntary as indicated.
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« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2015, 11:50:52 AM »

I never felt any real contempt for anybody in the Beach Boys story, except for Manson & Landy. With Landy, only after the second go around. There is so much Bullhonky out there regarding who are the heroes and who are the villains, that I could never come to any definitive conclusions about anybody who hovered around their inner circle.
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« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2015, 12:07:47 PM »

No one was forced off the board, banned from the board, or in another way asked to leave the board. It was voluntary as indicated.

Nonononononononono... that NOT what I told you to say. I want my $100 back.  Angry
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« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2015, 12:14:06 PM »


Looks like Darro has - most conveniently - forgotten that he's claimed Brian never wrote any of his own lyrics. Those lyrics are unquestionably Mike's, just as the other set is unquestionably Tony's. I call bull, and sh*t.


Fair point about the contradiction. However I don't accept your argument that Daro and his wife can't have influenced the songs because Asher wrote one and Love the other.

We know that Brian brought ideas and concepts in for Asher to flesh out. For example could Brian not legitimately claim to have written Caroline No for Marilyn (or Carol Mountain was it? I'm not as up on this stuff as most here), even though Asher wrote the lyrics? One could argue both Brian and Asher were responsible for the subject matter, no? If Daro did share his experiences of being out of step with the times with Brian, Brian could feasibly have taken that concept to Asher, then subsequently confided to Daro that he wrote the song about him. I'm not saying these things definitely happened but just that it's not beyond reason.

Similarly is Brian's claim that GV was inspired by Audree and the dog thing also bs because we all know Mike wrote the hook?

Personally, I don't think your argument holds up here.
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« Reply #88 on: January 20, 2015, 12:14:54 PM »

No one was forced off the board, banned from the board, or in another way asked to leave the board. It was voluntary as indicated.

Nonononononononono... that NOT what I told you to say. I want my $100 back.  Angry

That's where it stands currently, I can only offer the truth as of the present time. I'll hold the 100 in escrow... Wink
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"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2015, 12:16:42 PM »

I don't need to know a person in order to get an impression.  He made one.  It wasn't favourable.

His appearance in the Beautiful Dreamer DVD told me a lot. I mean, his physical appearance...

This is exactly what I mean. What has his physical appearance got to do with anything? Call yourself a historian? Do you always factor in somebody's appearance when judging the validity of their recollections?


I balance it with what they're saying. He chose to look like a slimeball and giggle his way through a serious and highly contentious topic: doesn't inspire confidence. The bigger question is, WFT was he doing there in the first place ?

As for my credentials as an historian, they may be questionable (many have), but at least I have the balls to post under my own name and not hide behind a pseudonym.

Yeah, that literally made my skin crawl the first time I saw it. What kind of trip-sitter, much less "friend" laughs hysterically at a bad trip (or bad phase of a trip) and continues to do so every time it's brought up*? Definitely not somebody I'd want to be around when my consciousness is being expanded.

And I agree, why was he even invited? What did he even have to offer aside from "yeah I gave him acid and laughed in his face while the trip got dark"? I think some of you are vastly inflating his importance. This is a guy whose sole claim to fame is turning Brian onto psychedelics. Hes so hung up about it he's still acting like it's something great accomplishment. But that's not enough--he has to be the inspiration behind two of the best songs as well. And he was the only one who cared about Brian ever. Uh huh.

If he had any interesting anecdotes outside of the trip itself, he could have mentioned them in the essay or initial response. He did not. He wasn't involved in the music and as far as I can tell was little more than a drug hookup. Maybe he might have something cool to say, but he seemed far more concerned with flinging insults at everyone but himself. When I turned it around on him, he had nothing to say. You'd think he'd have thicker skin based on how casually he dishes it out.

* Peter Carlin mentions him "cackling" about it too in the catch a wave book.
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« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2015, 12:19:00 PM »

If Daro did share his experiences of being out of step with the times with Brian, Brian could feasibly have taken that concept to Asher, then subsequently confided to Daro that he wrote the song about him. I'm not saying these things definitely happened but just that it's not beyond reason.

If...

It's been proven that he's inaccurate in at least one major instance he relates, so what's to say he's being accurate - or honest - here ?  Just as likely.
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« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2015, 12:21:36 PM »

Anyone who was 'there' and is still alive to tell the story should be allowed to share their side no matter how dubious the claims are, but it's in extremely bad taste to leave up his baseless and acidic remarks, let alone post them one day after The Man Himself visited.

At best, Darro could have said his piece about the lyrics, and then after asking Tony Asher/Van Dyke Parks/et. al for corroboration, we can come away all the more enlightened about the history of these songs.

Also, this.
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« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2015, 12:22:29 PM »

No one was forced off the board, banned from the board, or in another way asked to leave the board. It was voluntary as indicated.

Nonononononononono... that NOT what I told you to say. I want my $100 back.  Angry

That's where it stands currently, I can only offer the truth as of the present time. I'll hold the 100 in escrow... Wink

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« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2015, 12:36:32 PM »

OK...I'm old.  My mind is clouding over.  Memory...not that good honestly.  So...Did Darro say somewhere in one of the items he posted that he couldn't figure out why the guys writing the books about Brian and the Beach Boys didn't talk to him more...or use him as a resource?  I seem to recall that.  Maybe?

I'm guessing that after talking to him...if his 'take' on facts was so off the mark that they MIGHT have thought..."Uhhh...no...let's not go there...that ain't workin'"  Otherwise...why wouldn't they have included more from a source that close to the action?  I say that because I initially figured that if we sat back and let this guy 'go' that we'd learn something.  That's why I wanted the thread to roll.  Fill in some blanks for us...PLEASE.  But one can't fill in the blanks with fiction.  There's nothing to be gained.

And if the other site yanked down his 'thingy'...they must have done so for a reason.  It, I'm guessin', wasn't merely performed as a bandwidth saving measure.

So what looked like a golden goose about to lay some eggs...may, rather, have turned out to be a bull.  [and those weren't golden eggs.]
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« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2015, 12:45:08 PM »

I think that it's (unfortunately) a minority opinion that the thread should have stayed up, but it's one that I concur with. While Daro's remarks were immoderate in places, there was an opportunity to possibly learn something new about the events surrounding Brian Wilson's most creative period. That shouldn't be tossed away due to some initial negativity and disrespect. Marilyn Wilson has endured much worse than those remarks--though I want to be clear that I in no way condone them.

Brian has survived so much more than what at most would be a tempest in a teapot that I must wonder about the motivations involved here. While it might turn out that a) this person is a fake or b) this person is real but is so flawed by age and the bitterness of lingering memory that the result of engagement/interrogation would prove fruitless, it was nonetheless an opportunity that was quickly and summarily flushed down the toilet.

It's clear from what buddahat posted that the chances of this person re-engaging are slim; he made a mistake by coming on with such intemperate remarks, but the nuclear response and the moralizing that's followed in its wake is extremely disappointing. Just what is it that we are afraid of finding out? How could it be any worse that what Nick Kent or Steven Gaines have already put out there??

I'm the one who was most hostile towards him and I'll tell you right now it's not part of some vast cover-up. If we heard SMiLE was completely plagiarized or Bruce ate a kitten or Carl was adopted...I'd want to know about it. It's not about shutting up an alternate viewpoint so much as knocking a pompous and childish man off his high horse. That's how I saw it. The rest of you don't have to be happy about it, but I said what I felt he deserved to hear. If my remarks made him leave, shame on him for slandering people if he can't deal with the fallout. Don't dish out what you can't take in, etc.

If you're referring to the mods, I'd say give them a break. I once called this board badly moderated myself, a claim I now think was untrue and out of line. They strike me as good intentioned people doing the best they can. Whatever was done was for the best, I'm sure, and again not some conspiracy to shut up a dissenting voice.

Buddhahat, for whatever it's worth coming from me I am truly happy you got your question answered and I hope anyone else who had one can do the same. I still think the guy's full of it, reading that email, but that's just my take. I agree with AGD--it's not Brian who even wrote those lyrics and just because Daro thinks Brian was just right for those times doesn't mean Brian himself felt that way. It's not that GV is about Audree, just that she introduced the phrase/concept in his mind. I believe that over Daro, but to each his own.

And it's not the "idiot savant" comment so much as the claim that he was faking mental illness until the 70s that pissed me off regarding Brian. Totally uncalled for, and I'll bet ANYONE else who knew him then would call bullshit on that. Seeing as how he lied about so much else, I trust them over Daro.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Mikie
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« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2015, 12:57:47 PM »

Pulling the thread was a positively Hoffmanesque move. Why not just let the guy have his say and debate him if you don't agree? Way too many people here not willing to even listen to a narrative that contradicts their own. Now cue AGD intoning how we can't believe anything he says because he was wrong about Brian never writing lyrics.

Correcto mundo!  I'd rather see someone 'debated' off the board and give him/her a chance to argue the facts than be forced off after a few posts.  So many of us have read all the books and are well-versed enough and know how to reference most of the facts, that I think we are qualified to counter (or correct) someone when they post statements that don't have any proof or haven't already been established as fact.  I mean, AGD usually has a field day with posters and guys like Daro (remember Barbie?) Wouldn't that be more fun than running someone's ass off the board right away?

Stuff like........Brian has always said GV was about the time he was with his mother as a kid and walking past a barking dog in the neighborhood and asking her why some bark at some people and others don't (dogs can hear vibrations from people).  I never heard it was about any one person before.

And Marilyn. I met Marilyn twice and she was very nice to me and my daughter. No question there at all. Same with Diane. But Marilyn was also a very young wife and mother to a rock star which wasn't easy....
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 01:43:41 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2015, 01:03:08 PM »

My only real regret is that the thread is gone. Even locked, it stood as testament to the degree to which Donnie Darko was acting as knob.

I disliked the way he referred to Marilyn, the "idiot savant" comment and particularly the reference to BW as a "pig" to VDP's silk purse or whatever.

As for the GV inspiration being Brian's secret longing (I wouldnt use the word "love" even though I don't believe the story to begin with…) for his wife… well, that's arse about tit. The LAST person I'd 'fess up about such a lust would be the woman's husband. I'd probably tell him the song was based on something my mum told me about Doog Vibrations…

Still, if the guy's not banned he can come back and explain things in a more civil manner, we'll all learn something (potentially) and he can push his agenda again.

As said in the deleted thread, Mujan stated some very good truths. Much still to be sorted.
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Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions, Unadulterated Bedroom Sessions…
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« Reply #97 on: January 20, 2015, 01:19:34 PM »

Sadly, Van Dyke Parks seems to accept Daro's comments as fact. *sigh*
https://twitter.com/thevandykeparks/status/458458606388531200

What the hell happened between Brian and Van Dyke these past few years???
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #98 on: January 20, 2015, 01:27:13 PM »

Sadly, Van Dyke Parks seems to accept Daro's comments as fact. *sigh*
https://twitter.com/thevandykeparks/status/458458606388531200

What the hell happened between Brian and Van Dyke these past few years???

Notice he's not corroborating them, just saying "oh that's the way it happened? Why am I the last to know?" Definitely a shame he's using this as a passive aggressive dig at Brian. Very disappointing. I'd like to know the answer to that as well, and I have to say between things like this and not offering an essay to the SMiLE box set, I'm really starting to think less of VDP. Maybe whatever happened is Brian's fault but at least he's not wasting his time making passive aggressive digs online and screwing the fans over it, whatever "it" is.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #99 on: January 20, 2015, 01:29:02 PM »

He called him that in one of his responses.. I saw it myself and it upset me that he said that.. it was like calling him "retarded" or something and I did not like it.. Angry

Oh, I could only find a cache of the thread on Google which shows the opening post and nothing else.
yup... it looked like he was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Brian COULDN'T do Smile without Van Dyke Parks because Van Dyke is a Genius and Brian doesn't know what he's doing (Hence an "Idiot Savant") and that's why Smile was never finished , hence him also saying that Brian didn't write his own lyrics etc, at least that's what I got out of it... maybe others got a different interpretation than I with that remark.. but either way it's disturbing..
Not what an idiot savant means. It means that Brian was a music genius (Savant), but knows little of anything else, in this case being a lyricist. Just a very harsh way of saying that Brian could not write lyrics close to what Van Dyke Parks did for Smile.
okay thanks I didn't know that,,thanks for telling me,, Grin
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