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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 102527 times)
Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #600 on: January 29, 2015, 02:37:16 PM »

 Grin
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 07:09:57 AM by Mr. Cohen » Logged
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« Reply #601 on: January 29, 2015, 02:39:35 PM »

It's clear that your involvement with Brian was pivotal to a series of events that led to great achievements/efforts
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Pivotal?
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« Reply #602 on: January 29, 2015, 03:01:14 PM »

Yes, pivotal. Out of this group of people came Asher and Parks. Lorren was, at the very least, a conduit.
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« Reply #603 on: January 29, 2015, 03:13:27 PM »

Yes, pivotal. Out of this group of people came Asher and Parks. Lorren was, at the very least, a conduit.
But not so pivotal, that "Brian would've taken it anyway", kinda pivotal!!
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« Reply #604 on: January 29, 2015, 03:46:00 PM »

Lorren Daro quickly apologized for his tone and inaccurate recall.
I agree that my initial posts were too full of anger. I’m sorry I didn’t calm down and moderate the tone. The anger is still there, but enough of you have objected that I now see your point. More with honey than vinegar, right? A lot of this has been pent up in me for years. Thanks for seeing through the dark clouds and urging me to change my approach. Never too late to learn…
AGD: I’m beginning to understand what’s going on here. It seems that I’m as much of a victim of bad rumors as anyone else. I lot of what I’ve said was from Brian’s mouth – the 2X4 deafness, Dennis’s drumming, the journey of the ‘Smile’ records, etc. And, no, AGD I’m not going to cling to these ‘facts’. I’m here to learn, as well as to relate what I think I know. My distant memories are suspect. I see that now. Good thing you’re here to keep me on the path. I didn’t think I would run into all this scientific analysis…

Since there are some who don't believe he had anything worthwhile to share, I've compiled and whittled the parts that I thought were interesting for their own merit.

http://pastebin.com/7cgmXwTK

Next on the list: someone ought to email Lorren all of the questions he missed in this thread. There were plenty of good ones.
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« Reply #605 on: January 29, 2015, 04:00:18 PM »

Yes, pivotal. Out of this group of people came Asher and Parks. Lorren was, at the very least, a conduit.
But not so pivotal, that "Brian would've taken it anyway", kinda pivotal!!

 LOL
Exactly!


Seriously guys, we're really saying Loren Daro was pivotal to Brian's career? A resounding bullshit I say!
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« Reply #606 on: January 29, 2015, 04:26:14 PM »

Geez man.  He's gone.  Can we ease up in terms of urinating on him?  He was an IMPORTANT link...a KEY stepping stone...in terms of how it all evolved...at least for 2 of the absolutely MOST important albums in Beach Boys history.  Tony?  Van Dyke?  The SMiLE you cherish and spend so much time wondering and caring about?  Without the intoductions?  Where would you be right now?  And still you stand there with your fly undone?

Geez zuis Mujan.  Read before you press the POST button!!!
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« Reply #607 on: January 29, 2015, 04:39:28 PM »

Geez man.  He's gone.  Can we ease up in terms of urinating on him?  He was an IMPORTANT link...a KEY stepping stone...in terms of how it all evolved...at least for 2 of the absolutely MOST important albums in Beach Boys history.  Tony?  Van Dyke?  The SMiLE you cherish and spend so much time wondering and caring about?  Without the introductions?  Where would you be right now?  And still you stand there with your fly undone?

Geez zuis Mujan.  Read before you press the POST button!!!

This.
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« Reply #608 on: January 29, 2015, 05:29:02 PM »

Geez man.  He's gone.  Can we ease up in terms of urinating on him?  He was an IMPORTANT link...a KEY stepping stone...in terms of how it all evolved...at least for 2 of the absolutely MOST important albums in Beach Boys history.  Tony?  Van Dyke?  The SMiLE you cherish and spend so much time wondering and caring about?  Without the intoductions?  Where would you be right now?  And still you stand there with your fly undone?

Geez zuis Mujan.  Read before you press the POST button!!!

Well from my understanding he did not attend a SMiLE nor Pet Sounds Session.
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« Reply #609 on: January 29, 2015, 05:38:04 PM »

Geez man.  He's gone.  Can we ease up in terms of urinating on him?  He was an IMPORTANT link...a KEY stepping stone...in terms of how it all evolved...at least for 2 of the absolutely MOST important albums in Beach Boys history.  Tony?  Van Dyke?  The SMiLE you cherish and spend so much time wondering and caring about?  Without the intoductions?  Where would you be right now?  And still you stand there with your fly undone?

Geez zuis Mujan.  Read before you press the POST button!!!

Why? He had no problem sh!tting on anyone else he pleased. Say what you will about Mike, at least he wrote some good lyrics. Marilyn probably genuinely loved Brian even if she wasn't the "best" most experienced wife. What is Daro? The guy who gave him some drugs, and hosted drug parties where he happened to meet some cool, talented people. A role I think just about any other person may have filled had they also been in the right place at the right time. And without becoming a bitter old man bragging about (helping to) break up a marriage to boot. Probably without making a big show of coming here to clear their name only to expose their true colors as well.

And, as someone else insinuated, if he's such good friends with Brian...why did he ditch him when he needed friends most? Why not try to make amends now? Because, I strongly suspect, he's only playing up his association with Brian now as a way of getting his own 15 minutes of fame. Aside from being wholly inaccurate, his narrative is so shamelessly self-serving and overly derogatory to everyone else it makes me sick. I think I was decent enough, if highly skeptical, while he was here out of respect for others who may have had questions. But now that he's gone again--turnedTandy ran rather than defend his own story--I'm assessing everything that's been said and calling it as I see it.
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« Reply #610 on: January 29, 2015, 05:49:33 PM »

"I strongly suspect..." The most overused and abused coupling of three words on this board by those who think they know better which comfortably validates their opinion.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #611 on: January 29, 2015, 05:58:26 PM »

"I strongly suspect..." The most overused and abused coupling of three words on this board by those who think they know better which comfortably validates their opinion.  Roll Eyes

It fits the pattern of behavior he's followed. Why else come to defend against non-existent criticisms to an article nobody read or cared about, claim he's Brian's best friend and all the best songs are about him, knock everyone else in Brian's life down to look more important by comparison and then leave when we all don't mindlessly fawn over the magnificence of the guy whose proudest accomplishment is giving someone else acid that they later said shattered their mind?

Run on sentence.
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

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« Reply #612 on: January 29, 2015, 06:06:34 PM »

"I strongly suspect..." The most overused and abused coupling of three words on this board by those who think they know better which comfortably validates their opinion.  Roll Eyes
Ok well here you go then, he's only playing up his association with Brian now as a way of getting his own 15 minutes of fame.
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« Reply #613 on: January 29, 2015, 07:15:08 PM »

"I strongly suspect..." The most overused and abused coupling of three words on this board by those who think they know better which comfortably validates their opinion.  Roll Eyes

It fits the pattern of behavior he's followed. Why else come to defend against non-existent criticisms to an article nobody read or cared about, claim he's Brian's best friend and all the best songs are about him, knock everyone else in Brian's life down to look more important by comparison and then leave when we all don't mindlessly fawn over the magnificence of the guy whose proudest accomplishment is giving someone else acid that they later said shattered their mind?

Run on sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
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« Reply #614 on: January 29, 2015, 07:41:21 PM »

Yes, pivotal. Out of this group of people came Asher and Parks. Lorren was, at the very least, a conduit.
But not so pivotal, that "Brian would've taken it anyway", kinda pivotal!!

A conduit to better lyricists, who by supplanting him turned Mike Love into a demon in human form (one literally green with envy).

But note that all this competition did make Mike (temporarily, at least) into a better lyricist.

Without Asher and Parks, the desire to integrate music with more meaningful lyrics might not have happened, and...guess what? That means that we wouldn't be here--running off the folks who have the temerity to "hang on to their ego" in the face of the self-appointed "fact police"....
Thud
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« Reply #615 on: January 29, 2015, 08:13:33 PM »

Yes, pivotal. Out of this group of people came Asher and Parks. Lorren was, at the very least, a conduit.
But not so pivotal, that "Brian would've taken it anyway", kinda pivotal!!

A conduit to better lyricists, who by supplanting him turned Mike Love into a demon in human form (one literally green with envy).

But note that all this competition did make Mike (temporarily, at least) into a better lyricist.

Without Asher and Parks, the desire to integrate music with more meaningful lyrics might not have happened, and...guess what? That means that we wouldn't be here--running off the folks who have the temerity to "hang on to their ego" in the face of the self-appointed "fact police"....
Thud
More like self anointed. Wink
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« Reply #616 on: January 29, 2015, 08:40:10 PM »

"I strongly suspect..." The most overused and abused coupling of three words on this board by those who think they know better which comfortably validates their opinion.  Roll Eyes

It fits the pattern of behavior he's followed. Why else come to defend against non-existent criticisms to an article nobody read or cared about, claim he's Brian's best friend and all the best songs are about him, knock everyone else in Brian's life down to look more important by comparison and then leave when we all don't mindlessly fawn over the magnificence of the guy whose proudest accomplishment is giving someone else acid that they later said shattered their mind?

Run on sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

I admit, I laughed
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
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« Reply #617 on: January 29, 2015, 08:52:38 PM »

I would like to speak for a moment, and I hope cogently, neither as a defender of Lorren Daro nor as an antagonist, because I'm really neither. Earlier in this thread, I tried to put forth the idea that it doesn't really matter whether we agree with anything this particular figure is saying, nor does it matter whether we think what he says is irredeemably skewed by a bias or agenda. The potential for nuggets of interest to come through was still there.

Unfortunately, too much of this thread was spent with people attacking each other rather than trying to encourage an interesting dialogue. Maybe nothing more would have come of it if we had  been better behaved, but it's also possible more interesting things would have been discussed. And that is absolutely our failing. Why do we spend so much time trashing each other? Seriously, it gets sickening to read some of the venom here. I get so riled up reading other people's anger (and no, I'm not going to fall into the trap of naming any particular usernames), that I start to want to post venomous posts myself and luckily talk myself down before I do. But seriously, can't we TRY to change the culture here, folks? I mean, this is so counterproductive!

Lorren's statements made me interested, for instance, to find out more about Terry Sachen and why he was such a terrible enabler. If I'd had more presence of mind to crystallize those thoughts better, I might have been able to ask a good question even amid all the sturm und drang (Micha, please forgive my horrible pseudo-German!). And maybe something of interest would have come of that.

But back to the main point: I really feel Andrew Doe made a great point (I think it was he who said this) when he said that people feel insulated from reality when they use usernames on a board like this. They feel they can behave in a way that they wouldn't face to face because they're hiding behind a pseudonym. That's why I decided to use my real name here. I don't want to ever say anything off the record, that I wouldn't own and stand by. And if I make mistakes and say the wrong thing, say something inappropriate, I want to face actual consequences to my person, so I can learn from it.

I'm not saying any of this to act superior, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. It's just that being a member of this board is so wonderful and educational and collaborative in so many ways, but it comes close to being truly spoiled at times by all the juvenile behavior that happens here. I hope that by my posting this some people will be encouraged to think more fully about how to express opinions vigorously and fully without resorting to personal bile.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 09:13:45 PM by Jesse Reiswig » Logged
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« Reply #618 on: January 29, 2015, 09:06:18 PM »

I would like to speak for a moment, and I hope cogently, neither as a defender of Lorren Daro nor as an antagonist, because I'm really neither. Earlier in this thread, I tried to put forth the idea that it doesn't really matter whether we agree with anything this particular figure is saying, nor does it matter whether we think what he says is irredeemably skewed by a bias or agenda. The potential for nuggets of interest to come through was still there.

Unfortunately, too much of this thread was spent with people attacking each other rather than trying to encourage an interesting dialogue. Maybe nothing more would have come of it if we had  been better behaved, but it's also possible more interesting things would have been discussed. And that is absolutely our failing. Why do we spend so much time trashing each other? Seriously, it gets sickening to read some of the venom here. I get so riled up reading other people's anger (and no, I'm not going to fall into the trap of naming any particular usernames), that I start to want to post venomous posts myself and luckily talk myself down before I do. But seriously, can't we TRY to change the culture here, folks? I mean, this is so counterproductive!

Lorren's statements made me interested, for instance, to find out more about Terry Sachen and why he was such a terrible enabler. If I'd had more presence of mind to crystallize those thoughts better, I might have been able to ask a good question even amid all the sturm und drang (Micha, please forgive my horrible pseudo-German!). And maybe something of interest would have come of that.

But back to the main point, I really feel Andrew Doe made a great point (I think it was he who said this) when he said that people feel insulated from reality when they use usernames on a board like this. They feel they can behave in a way that they wouldn't face to face because they're hiding behind a pseudonym. That's why I decided to use my real name here. I don't want to ever say anything off the record, that I wouldn't own and stand by. And if I make mistakes and say the wrong thing, say something inappropriate, I want to face actual consequences to my person, so I can learn from it.

I'm not saying any of this to act superior, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. It's just that being a member of this board is so wonderful and educational and collaborative in so many ways, but it comes close to being truly spoiled at times by all the juvenile behavior that happens here. I hope that by my posting this some people will be encouraged to think more fully about how to express opinions vigorously and fully without resorting to personal bile.

One of the most intelligent posts on this thread. I didn't understand all the trashing that went on either. If you want to accept or not accept what Lorren had to say thats fine but why start fighting over it.
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« Reply #619 on: January 29, 2015, 09:50:17 PM »

Well, that's why we can't have nice things around here.

That's funny!  Like talking to people in a Correctional or Mental Health facility!  Ha Ha Ha Ha!  Grin
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« Reply #620 on: January 29, 2015, 11:37:51 PM »

Daro's pov is just that and whether we like or not, need to accept it.

I was interested in his point of view and accepted that, but his demeanor just drove me nuts. I regret having in my indignation lowered myself to his niveau in a phrase or two in my last post before his exit, ill decision by me, even though my opinion on him still stands. I rather should have worded it more like this (taken from another thread):

Quote
It's fine to disagree, to voice opinions, to say what you liked or didn't like about something, but at least try to do it with some level of respect and tact!

There was no respect or tact in any of Daro's posts. That made him so dubious and shady for me, not his mixing up timelines or voicing opinions that didn't go with the facts or that it was him who gave Brian LSD first. I don't miss him, but he was an interesting experience.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 01:18:15 AM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #621 on: January 29, 2015, 11:40:08 PM »

Seriously, I respect the fact that Lorren blunted his attack somewhat in this second thread,

I looked up "blunt" in an online dictionary, and the first thing that came up was "a joint made from a cigar" - never heard of that, perfect choice of word, Lee! Cheesy
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« Reply #622 on: January 29, 2015, 11:45:47 PM »

I would like to speak for a moment, and I hope cogently, neither as a defender of Lorren Daro nor as an antagonist, because I'm really neither. Earlier in this thread, I tried to put forth the idea that it doesn't really matter whether we agree with anything this particular figure is saying, nor does it matter whether we think what he says is irredeemably skewed by a bias or agenda. The potential for nuggets of interest to come through was still there.

Unfortunately, too much of this thread was spent with people attacking each other rather than trying to encourage an interesting dialogue. Maybe nothing more would have come of it if we had  been better behaved, but it's also possible more interesting things would have been discussed. And that is absolutely our failing. Why do we spend so much time trashing each other? Seriously, it gets sickening to read some of the venom here. I get so riled up reading other people's anger (and no, I'm not going to fall into the trap of naming any particular usernames), that I start to want to post venomous posts myself and luckily talk myself down before I do. But seriously, can't we TRY to change the culture here, folks? I mean, this is so counterproductive!

Lorren's statements made me interested, for instance, to find out more about Terry Sachen and why he was such a terrible enabler. If I'd had more presence of mind to crystallize those thoughts better, I might have been able to ask a good question even amid all the sturm und drang (Micha, please forgive my horrible pseudo-German!). And maybe something of interest would have come of that.

But back to the main point: I really feel Andrew Doe made a great point (I think it was he who said this) when he said that people feel insulated from reality when they use usernames on a board like this. They feel they can behave in a way that they wouldn't face to face because they're hiding behind a pseudonym. That's why I decided to use my real name here. I don't want to ever say anything off the record, that I wouldn't own and stand by. And if I make mistakes and say the wrong thing, say something inappropriate, I want to face actual consequences to my person, so I can learn from it.

I'm not saying any of this to act superior, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. It's just that being a member of this board is so wonderful and educational and collaborative in so many ways, but it comes close to being truly spoiled at times by all the juvenile behavior that happens here. I hope that by my posting this some people will be encouraged to think more fully about how to express opinions vigorously and fully without resorting to personal bile.

Well said, Jesse.

I admit, I have *major* issues with several things posted by Daro (most of them were in the archived thread) that were at best demonstrably false (and go beyond simple memory lapses), and at worst, libelous. I left this thread open because  I did want Daro to have his say, and to state his side of things, regardless of accuracy or, indeed, motive/agenda. What bothers me more than anything else was that anything that was critical of him was immediately responded to with an attack by members here I really expected more from. Mujan did raise some valid concerns (ones I can back up 100% in most cases) but it was like there was a wall put up...I guess what I'm trying to say is it bothers me that there is such a level of inflexibility here where one only believes something that ties into what they already believe, and all else is 'lies and bullshit'.   To put it bluntly...there is a prevailing 'all insiders here are full of sh*t, except the ones who say what I want to hear..then those are infallible'.  I mean, hell, I could (hypothetically speaking) state that his IP address just so happened to match a member known for being full of sh*t and just so happened to be banned the day before, put up a damn screen shot,  and then immediately be accused of doctoring in Photoshop, because it wouldn't be what one wanted to hear. Hypothetically, of course.

To me, Daro himself was irrelevant (in regards to this rant); it was the way things were handled amongst each other. I stayed out of this for a reason...I stated my case, was suitably ignored, and then I moved on. No biggie. What IS a biggie is the petty sniping at each other.

Well said, Micha (in your first post...as for the 2nd, just some information, but blunted in this case also means 'toned down') and MrRobinsonsFather, I agree as well.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:49:02 PM by ♩♬ Billy C ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #623 on: January 30, 2015, 12:08:50 AM »

Unfortunately, too much of this thread was spent with people attacking each other rather than trying to encourage an interesting dialogue.

Should anybody on this thread other than Daro feel attacked by me, point it out to me, and I will apologize.


amid all the sturm und drang (Micha, please forgive my horrible pseudo-German!)

Nothing to forgive there, it's not pseudo, everything's good, Jesse! Smiley


But back to the main point: I really feel Andrew Doe made a great point (I think it was he who said this) when he said that people feel insulated from reality when they use usernames on a board like this. They feel they can behave in a way that they wouldn't face to face because they're hiding behind a pseudonym.

Daro behaved that way actually using his real name! Cheesy As for me, I only use the first five letters of my real name, you can look up the full one in my profile, there's a link to my website too which features my home address so you can come up to my house and beat me up.


I'm not saying any of this to act superior

I think you act superior in a very good way. Thumbs Up


just some information, but blunted in this case also means 'toned down'

Yup, that information was supplied by the online dictionary, too, it was just so funny the first translation was drug related! Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 12:53:58 AM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #624 on: January 30, 2015, 01:33:34 AM »

Thank you, Lorren. It's clear that your involvement with Brian was pivotal to a series of events that led to great achievements/efforts--and, most unfortunately, a series of difficult times that only got worse because the folks who tried to get him "help" in the 70s were either callous, indifferent, or way out of their depth. No one in their right mind can possibly blame you for what went down in the years after your friendship with Brian came to an end. And no one should now still hold the misguided notion that Brian's initial LSD trip is the trigger for his downfall.

Thank you, Lee Dempsey, for reading through this torturous thread--where several otherwise capable and intelligent folks have sullied their own reputations far more than they have succeeded at character assasination--and recognizing that despite his (occasionally very) rough edges, Lorren is someone who should be allowed to speak his mind without being constantly hounded by the so-called "fact police."

I think the most surprising aspect of this thread is the fact that no one (including yours truly) thought to ask Lorren about his observations concerning the odd "triangle" relationship between Brian, Marilyn and Diane. That is a dynamic that is worth exploring from several directions--unless, of course, it might offend those folk who want to wave away the possibility that a flawed marriage was in any way a factor in Brian's ongoing difficulties. The inner world of the BBs in these years was already a tangled web, to be sure, and we may never know all of the details that contributed to how things played out, no matter how obsessive any of us might become in pursuit of them.
Just a hunch but I think you will find that those closest to Brian, have a great deal MORE respect now for those that "hounded" Lorren. "Fact police" or as I refer to them "truth seekers" are welcome anytime in my world! I prefer the truth as opposed, to bloated, self-indulgent and factual incorrect fallacy.

I have a hunch it's the other way around Wink      And Micha...  I nearly fell off my chair when I read your post!  That's not like you at all, he got you riled up didn't he?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 01:35:20 AM by Wild-Honey » Logged
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