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Author Topic: The Lorren Daro Thread  (Read 233805 times)
Wild-Honey
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« Reply #500 on: January 28, 2015, 12:56:43 AM »


So?  Is there really anything left to discuss?  Based on your response to the e-mail I sent you...I'd say we're pretty much done here?  Thanks for your time.  Don't let anyone make you the scapegoat.  Anyone who buys THAT is far too easily conned.

Walk good Lorren.

Are you telling Lorren not to post here any more?  That's kinda what it sounds like. 
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Tricycle Rider
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« Reply #501 on: January 28, 2015, 01:32:20 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 02:02:18 AM by Tricycle Rider » Logged

Some of our forum members suffer from an acute form of cynicism resulting in a complete lack of patience and manners in the face of anything joyful or optimistic. Try to humor them as best you can for the time being, and one day, with your help, we will find a cure for this devastating disease. This has been a public service announcement.
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« Reply #502 on: January 28, 2015, 01:55:19 AM »

As much as I'm appalled by Mr. Daro's general attitude towards people, you can't expect anybody to remember a timeline correctly after 50 years. If he had kept a journal, he may be able to, but obviously he hasn't. There must be a presumption of innocence for anybody, it is as likely that Daro misremembers as that Vosse slightly warped the truth in his contemporary article to cloud the fact he is a friend of Brian's. Just because it was written down back then doesn't mean it's all 100% true. Everybody has an agenda.

I once attended a lecture where a university professor compared the production techniques of Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper's. He confused Revolver and Rubber Soul, too, but immediately admitted his mistake when I pointed it out to him, just as Daro did.

Despite of Mr. Daro's inconsistencies in remembering and/or misrememberings, his perspective of things is interesting and adds to the whole picture. You just have to be aware that he, like everyone else, remembers things in a way that is convenient to him, so don't take it as gospel.
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« Reply #503 on: January 28, 2015, 02:20:08 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley

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« Reply #504 on: January 28, 2015, 02:25:37 AM »

You got THAT right! LOL
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« Reply #505 on: January 28, 2015, 02:44:12 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley

I'll leave you two alone now, three's a crowd! Grin

(Nah, just going for lunch! angel)
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« Reply #506 on: January 28, 2015, 02:53:52 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley

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Don't be silly Micha, three is what we were HOPING for.  Wink



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« Reply #507 on: January 28, 2015, 02:54:31 AM »

Hello, mods - someone's just called me a snide f***. I'm guessing they're going to get banned for that, right ? Because those are the rules, aren't they ?

How is that any different from the following:

If there was one person on this earth who should never, ever have been offered acid, it was Brian. Which I why I will despise Loren Schwarz with all my soul until the end of my days. I don't watch the "Beautiful Dreamer" doc because I just know that I'll kick the screen in the instant his smug, sweaty, self-important face appears. To consider it amusing that he was instrumental in instigating the downfall of Brian's creativity...

And undying shame on David Leaf, and Brian's people, for allowing this maggot any screen time.

It's a quote from 2009, I know, but I think it's entirely relevant in exposing your hypocrisy and obvious moral agenda here, besides the extreme (and imo incomprehensible) bitterness you apparently feel towards the man. Also, let's not forget: You actually have been banned before so I wouldn't be summoning the banhammer too readily if I were you ...

(The above quote, as an example of the anti-Daro feeling here, is also relevant to help us understand just why Lorren may have felt the need to clear his name in the first place.)

I find it impossible to take you seriously AGD. By all means flag up factual inaccuracies but your approach is so openly hostile at times, it becomes less about the facts and more about your own conflict with these people - counter productive to say the least. It makes me wonder if there's some sort of secondary benefit to these conflicts i.e you enjoy the battle more than the actual verification of facts.

I can *almost* understand your heavy-handed approach with, for example, Carol Kaye because she sticks to her guns after her claims have clearly been disproven. We argued about this before and I will concede there is value to pursuing that historical quest IF one approaches her with consideration.

However every time Lorren has been called out here he's admitted that the mistakes are down to the limitations of his recall. Should he be hounded from the board for this or can we create an environment where he attempts to answer question to the best of his knowledge and we politely pull him up on the perceived inaccuracies? Everybody is free to choose what value they take from the q & a at the end of the day.

To those of you who's feeling towards Daro have been coloured by his appearance on the BD doc, I would at least urge you to re-watch daro's section with an open mind and consider the following: Does he  come across less badly if you remove the Brian Wilson interview that it's inter-spliced with? Brian is simultaneously re-telling the same trip but appears fragile and refers to being scared. If BW and Daro were in the same room and Daro still laughed at the end, then I might agree with you that he was insensitive. But these are separate interviews. For example, we don't actually know what Daro says between:

"This is wonderful - he puts his head under the pillow" ...

and

... "about an hour and a half later he burst out of the bedroom and says 'well that's enough of that!'"

Leaf fills that space with BW saying: "I'm afraid of my mom, I'm afraid of my dad, like it heightens your awareness, y'know"

but for all we know Daro might be recounting some different, more amusing details in that space.

Or he may be exactly corroborating BW's account.

My point is, the editing does not do Lorren any favours and I sometimes wonder if all those immediately criticising Daro post 2004 had considered that they might have been, even slightly, manipulated by David Leaf's editing. Also, if Daro had been afforded more screen time to recall other events, he may not have been characterised (in some minds) solely as the pantomime villain that gave BW LSD.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 03:37:17 AM by buddhahat » Logged

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« Reply #508 on: January 28, 2015, 03:25:22 AM »


So?  Is there really anything left to discuss?  Based on your response to the e-mail I sent you...I'd say we're pretty much done here?  Thanks for your time.  Don't let anyone make you the scapegoat.  Anyone who buys THAT is far too easily conned.

Walk good Lorren.

Are you telling Lorren not to post here any more?  That's kinda what it sounds like.  

Heck no.  Lorren has told me, I think, all I wanted to know.  I have no more questions for him.  So, in that regard...unless something else comes up...he and I are pretty much done.  I have no interest in the actual 'trips' taken.  I'm sure others have things to ask and Lorren will, perhaps, have answers for them.  I just don't have another question for him.

It's not my place nor is there a reason to suggest that anyone not post here anymore.  I did get the impression from the post previous to the one I'm responding to that he's had about enough.  Just in case he 'split'...I  wanted to wish him well.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 03:26:31 AM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #509 on: January 28, 2015, 03:35:11 AM »


How is that any different from the following:


I`m not AGD but the difference is obvious.

The rules of the board state that insulting comments towards random people are a completely different thing to insults towards members.
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« Reply #510 on: January 28, 2015, 03:56:10 AM »


How is that any different from the following:


I`m not AGD but the difference is obvious.

The rules of the board state that insulting comments towards random people are a completely different thing to insults towards members.

Wow. If Mike Love registered here, what would we actually talk about?!
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« Reply #511 on: January 28, 2015, 04:07:07 AM »

I'm sure the Mods will enforce their rules as they see fit and then I hope we can get back to allowing Lorren to express his viewpoint with us being helpful. The "gotcha" style is getting tiresome to me.
  
Lorren,

I'd be interested in specifics about your allegations against Murry, Mike, and Marilyn but I understand we may not get them. Do you or can you allow that their actions may have been done with a good heart from their viewpoint?

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« Reply #512 on: January 28, 2015, 04:19:07 AM »


How is that any different from the following:


I`m not AGD but the difference is obvious.

The rules of the board state that insulting comments towards random people are a completely different thing to insults towards members.

Wow. If Mike Love registered here, what would we actually talk about?!

His favorite pizza
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« Reply #513 on: January 28, 2015, 04:29:06 AM »


How is that any different from the following:


I`m not AGD but the difference is obvious.

The rules of the board state that insulting comments towards random people are a completely different thing to insults towards members.

Wow. If Mike Love registered here, what would we actually talk about?!

His favorite pizza

or cutlery
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« Reply #514 on: January 28, 2015, 04:29:43 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley

I'll leave you two alone now, three's a crowd! Grin


Don't be silly Micha, three is what we were HOPING for.  Wink

Ah, I get it now - Tricycle Rider! Cheesy
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« Reply #515 on: January 28, 2015, 04:38:43 AM »

Looks like you and I are the only ones awake tonight Wild-Honey!
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn the last few posts, hasn't it?

Royce  Smiley

I'll leave you two alone now, three's a crowd! Grin


Don't be silly Micha, three is what we were HOPING for.  Wink

Ah, I get it now - Tricycle Rider! Cheesy

 LOL
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 04:40:54 AM by Tricycle Rider » Logged

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« Reply #516 on: January 28, 2015, 04:46:42 AM »

Hello, mods - someone's just called me a snide f***. I'm guessing they're going to get banned for that, right ? Because those are the rules, aren't they ?

How is that any different from the following:

If there was one person on this earth who should never, ever have been offered acid, it was Brian. Which I why I will despise Loren Schwarz with all my soul until the end of my days. I don't watch the "Beautiful Dreamer" doc because I just know that I'll kick the screen in the instant his smug, sweaty, self-important face appears. To consider it amusing that he was instrumental in instigating the downfall of Brian's creativity...

And undying shame on David Leaf, and Brian's people, for allowing this maggot any screen time.

It's a quote from 2009, I know, but I think it's entirely relevant in exposing your hypocrisy and obvious moral agenda here, besides the extreme (and imo incomprehensible) bitterness you apparently feel towards the man. Also, let's not forget: You actually have been banned before so I wouldn't be summoning the banhammer too readily if I were you ...

(The above quote, as an example of the anti-Daro feeling here, is also relevant to help us understand just why Lorren may have felt the need to clear his name in the first place.)

I find it impossible to take you seriously AGD. By all means flag up factual inaccuracies but your approach is so openly hostile at times, it becomes less about the facts and more about your own conflict with these people - counter productive to say the least. It makes me wonder if there's some sort of secondary benefit to these conflicts i.e you enjoy the battle more than the actual verification of facts.

I can *almost* understand your heavy-handed approach with, for example, Carol Kaye because she sticks to her guns after her claims have clearly been disproven. We argued about this before and I will concede there is value to pursuing that historical quest IF one approaches her with consideration.

However every time Lorren has been called out here he's admitted that the mistakes are down to the limitations of his recall. Should he be hounded from the board for this or can we create an environment where he attempts to answer question to the best of his knowledge and we politely pull him up on the perceived inaccuracies? Everybody is free to choose what value they take from the q & a at the end of the day.

To those of you who's feeling towards Daro have been coloured by his appearance on the BD doc, I would at least urge you to re-watch daro's section with an open mind and consider the following: Does he  come across less badly if you remove the Brian Wilson interview that it's inter-spliced with? Brian is simultaneously re-telling the same trip but appears fragile and refers to being scared. If BW and Daro were in the same room and Daro still laughed at the end, then I might agree with you that he was insensitive. But these are separate interviews. For example, we don't actually know what Daro says between:

"This is wonderful - he puts his head under the pillow" ...

and

... "about an hour and a half later he burst out of the bedroom and says 'well that's enough of that!'"

Leaf fills that space with BW saying: "I'm afraid of my mom, I'm afraid of my dad, like it heightens your awareness, y'know"

but for all we know Daro might be recounting some different, more amusing details in that space.

Or he may be exactly corroborating BW's account.

My point is, the editing does not do Lorren any favours and I sometimes wonder if all those immediately criticising Daro post 2004 had considered that they might have been, even slightly, manipulated by David Leaf's editing. Also, if Daro had been afforded more screen time to recall other events, he may not have been characterised (in some minds) solely as the pantomime villain that gave BW LSD.

Hook, line and sinker... Your opening examples are pathetic in their extreme differences. 
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« Reply #517 on: January 28, 2015, 05:32:31 AM »


Hook, line and sinker... Your opening examples are pathetic in their extreme differences. 

I'm not with you (pathetic???). Maybe Nicko in his earlier post is referring to a different set of rules, but all I can find on insults is the following:

Harassment of members is not tolerated.

I don't see anything specific about insulting non-members being permissible, or new members not being able to return insults to those who insulted them prior to them being a member. It would be a little unfair, don't you think if Lorren Daro was now banned? You rule and fact freaks are getting ridiculous.

At the very least if I spewed the same sort of vitriol about somebody as AGD had I would definitely not be calling them out for insulting me or, worse still, bleating to the mods about it. 

I've had enough of this. Some of you people seem insane. I think there is an inherent problem with having an Honoured Guest thread where posters do their best to hound the guest off.

Try to imagine what a Mike Love Honoured Guest thread would look like and ask yourselves how you'd feel if I turned up and took a dump in it. Repeatedly.

As such I've posted a suggestion on the 'Welcome' board that there be some rules about how we treat honoured guests. Worth considering since BW was here recently and ML has expressed an interest in the board.

Thanks to Mr Daro for his thick skin and patience with our questions and f you to all the mindless, moral-crusader mofos that have dogged this thread from the start.
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« Reply #518 on: January 28, 2015, 05:41:06 AM »

Hook, line and sinker... Your opening examples are pathetic in their extreme differences. 

I mean damn, one's a 2 word insult, the other is a half paragraph describing hatred of another person's soul. Very different!

But anyway, can't we all just get along?
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« Reply #519 on: January 28, 2015, 05:59:18 AM »

I don't like seeing this derail into an anti-AGD thread. Not long after it derailed into an anti-Daro thread. That doesn't help; it doesn't inform, nor does it add anything new to our fandom. It makes us vile and little else.

Daro, appeared as a villain in the BD video. He has every right in the world to try and clean up his image in BB world. He seems like an interesting guy to hang out with. Controversial, witty and occasionally gracious. I'm sure he is very well-read and great at conversations. He probably has many insights to share about the era we are discussing, its culture, literature and philosophy. Unfortunately, so far, other than personal opinion on the people involved, I don't think he's added meat for the fans, and just came across as a very short-time friend of Brian's, whose involvement was of relative importance to him and left a weak imprint in his memory for whatever reason (drug-induced or not). I think if they asked me with nerd-like minutia about a guy I knew for a couple of years 50 years ago, I probably couldn't respond any better.

AGD can be tough to deal with. He is obsessive, relentless, sometimes hurtful, occasionally uncalled-for. But he knows his sh*t, is generous and open about it (e.g. the Bellagio site), and is quick to acknowledge his wrong when appropiately pointed at. Not that I'm interested in becoming AGD's Chester.

Let us treat these two with respect, learn when possible, and move on, guys.
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« Reply #520 on: January 28, 2015, 06:10:24 AM »

Just warning everyone, I'm Bruce Johnston's unrepentant Chester. Say what you want about the other BBs, but you drag the Brucester through the mud and I will destroy you.
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« Reply #521 on: January 28, 2015, 06:19:57 AM »

He seems like an interesting guy to hang out with.

Partially I disagree: Actually I would rather read what he has to say right here instead of hanging out with him. And the reason is not because he gave Brian the drugs: Mr. Daro's notion that Brian would have gotten them elsewhere seems plausible to me.


AGD can be tough to deal with. He is obsessive, relentless, sometimes hurtful, occasionally uncalled-for. But he knows his sh*t, is generous and open about it (e.g. the Bellagio site), and is quick to acknowledge his wrong when appropiately pointed at. Not that I'm interested in becoming AGD's Chester.

This is a description I think that fits absolutely, both in good and unfortunately bad too.
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« Reply #522 on: January 28, 2015, 08:41:26 AM »

Nicko1234: What I meant by getting rid of Marilyn was he distanced himself from her, and no longer took her hysterics personally. It eventually led to divorce. Do I regret breaking up that marriage? Not for a second…

Mr Verlander: Yes, I may have been wrong about ‘Revolver’. It may have been ‘Rubber Soul’. These are all slightly dim memories. I’m doing my best, but I screw up now and then.

AGD: Please read the above about the Beatles album mistake.

I didn’t imagine that Vosse was at the ‘Pet Sounds’ instrumental sessions. I don’t know or care why he states differently. He may have had his own reasons for doing that. I don’t imagine human beings where they don’t exist. I wish I had someone else to verify this, but I don’t. I guess we’ll have to live with it. You’re a snide f***, aren’t you, AGD? You don’t get out much, do you?

OneEar/OneEye: I said that I love the BB records, and a lot of other music, as well. I used to be a professional musician. But, my interest doesn’t include the technical aspects of music. My true interest is in human beings and their behavior. My greatest loves are for literature and philosophy. Sorry…

Doinnothin: Del Close, and Jon Brent, for that matter, never met Brian that I know of.

Puni puni: I introduced the ‘How To Speak Hip’ album to Tony Asher. We played it many times together in my living room. He passed it on to Brian, as I did. I know I was the first to play it for him.

Note: I’m getting tired of this nit-picking and dumb questions. People trying to bust me at every turn. This is no longer fun – or meaningful. Yes, I’m an old man. I don’t have the clear memory or the patience for this anymore. Yes, I make mistakes, but they’re usually technical ones – dates, etc. – I ask for depth and I get shallow. I’m drifting away…








w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! Tell it like it is Lorren!!! Rock! Rock! Rock! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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« Reply #523 on: January 28, 2015, 11:30:24 AM »

I will join C.P. in NOT joining in - in terms of pounding on Andrew.  In reference to Lorren's treatment here RECENTLY [as I had absolutely NO idea of the previous AGD post added in to this thread well after the fact...] I was speaking in general terms.  Hell's bells...the whole initial thread was turfed...and phase two was beginning to flounder as well.

But to take part in an AGD bashing?  Not I.  Not interested.  The good outweighs the bad by TONS.  [I hope that can be said of all of us over the long haul.]  Does he piss me off?  Sometimes.  Likely as often as I raise his eyebrow...and ire.  Big deal.  I'd sit down and share [oh ya he doesn't drink] a breaking of the bread with him any time.  There are a LOT of cornfields and a LOT of crows in THIS neck of the woods.  

I'd break bread with Lorren too.  If we could remember, between the 2 of us, how to get to the restaurant.  [and what it was called. Wink

As for the 2 of them sitting down together?  I'd cancel those reservations...at least for the time being.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 11:33:59 AM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #524 on: January 28, 2015, 01:47:22 PM »

What a strange thread. Here we have a guy who was around Brian during arguably his creative peak and saw a lot of what went on at that time and he's nearly driven away by detractors. Weird. Weird. Weird.
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