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Author Topic: today of Summer days  (Read 9555 times)
GETTINHUNGRY
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« on: May 30, 2006, 05:22:47 PM »

once again , I am new to this board, so this topic might have been discussed before.  I guess I just wanted to get some people's opinions on which album they believe is superior:  "Today" or "Summer days ( and summer nights)".  Both are very good, but except for Pet sounds, I believe Today is the best Beach Boys album.  It is one great song after another.  I really thin that this was Brian Wilson's first "masterpiece".  Anyway, this topic might not even be interesting, but I thought I would throw it out there. 
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c-man
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 05:25:30 PM »

Couldn't agree more, although there are several "runners-up" for second best.
If you haven't already, I invite you to check out my essays on the making of these two
albums...www.beachboysarchives.com

Craig
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GETTINHUNGRY
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2006, 05:29:34 PM »

Thanks - i will certainly do that
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Reverend Joshua Sloane
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2006, 06:57:06 PM »

There's something about both albums which I find reasonably dull. I can enjoy on the two-fers all of the albums except these two. As seperate entities I enjoy them rather much, but together they bore me. I can't find a proper explanation as to why that is, oh well.
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 08:27:07 PM »

To me, 'Today!' works better, conceptually, as an album.  Grouping the rock on one side, and ballads on the other, it feels less like a random collection of singles and album filler, and more of a flowing entity like Pet Sounds.  And the "filler" on the album is just as good as the other material, in some cases better.

'Summer Days' is a good album, but it just feels like a step backward in comparison.  The concept of an album all about summer had been done already, and the songs just don't flow as well as 'Today!'.  And the filler on the album really does seem like filler (Amusement Parks, Bugged At My Ol' Man).  Also, the lack of any serious ballads (The type of song BW was doing the best at this point), is a serious offense as well.  But then you take into consideration that the album is home to California Girls, Salt Lake City and Let Him Run Wild, and all is forgotten. 

Still, it seems like Summer Days and Party were more of a diversion to make Mike and the group happy while Brian plotted something more like "Today".
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windchimes
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 08:27:52 PM »

I would have to disagree with Today being his first "masterpiece". I honestly think that the "All Summer Long" album is where Brian really had it all together. If you look at the track listing, almost all of the songs are gems. (excluding Carl's Big chance and Our fav. Recording sessions) Even today has its flaws. I honestly cant stand Dennis on In the Back of my mind. I wouldnt go so far as to say the song is bad itself, but Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

Also possibly off topic, was  "All Dressed Up for School" an outake of Today! or Summer days?

thanks

windchimes
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windchimes
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2006, 08:30:19 PM »


  But then you take into consideration that the album is home to California Girls, Salt Lake City and Let Him Run Wild, and all is forgotten. 


Aint that the truth. Ive always thought that Summer Days is the most underrated BB album.
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GETTINHUNGRY
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2006, 09:04:21 PM »

today comes together conceptually more than any other album except pet Sounds.  Even the song you refer to ( In the back of my mind) fits well together with such emotional ballads such as "Kiss me baby", "Please let me wonder", and "I'm so young".  All Summer Long is an excellent album, no question about it.  I really think that with Today Brian brought it all up to a higher level. 
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2006, 09:12:07 PM »

Quote
Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

You saying that made me want to throw up, funny.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2006, 09:14:41 PM »

Come on, "I'm bugged at my old man" isn't filler.  How could such a dramatic look into the Wilson family dynamic be filler.  I mean, I'm not somebody who pays a lot of attention to lyrics, but that song is crazy.

Summer Days edges out Today slightly for me, I guess.  It's such a great little intermediary step between the old and the new.  It sets the template for Pet Sounds, in that you start to see the dominating presence of the session musicians, but you still have the wonderful self-contained beauty of Girl Don't Tell Me or You're So Good to Me.  Musically, I think it's a decisive step forward from Today in some ways.  Lyrically, I could care less, really.  I don't know.  It's a hard choice, and fortunately It's not one I really have to make.
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windchimes
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2006, 09:17:08 PM »

lol. was their dad pissed about that song? Or at least embarassed?
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GETTINHUNGRY
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 09:25:52 PM »

"California girls" and "Let Him Run Wild" were very innovative in their time.  Except for that, everything seems to be a step backwards.  The Today album was a step up from all summer long.  They started singing more emotional songs.  The harmonies and arrangements also became more elaborate.  I think that Today is the real precursor to pet sounds, not Summer Days and Summer Nights.
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2006, 09:35:21 PM »

I think that this is an instance of lyrics masking the music beneath.  I just can't agree that the arrangments were more elaborate on Today than Summer Days.  I mean, I love love love the first half of Today, but aside from When I Grow Up, I think all of the songs would fit right on on All Summer Long and nobody would know the difference.  I don't think any song on Summer Days would fit, musically or sonically.  Please Let Me Wonder and In the Back of My Mind plus Kiss Me Baby are the only tracks that are real foreshadowers, musically.  She Knows Me is more of a lyrical signpost.

But on Summer Day, you have songs like Salt Lake City, which has totally throw away (but fantastic) lyrics but a killer track that uses essentially the same musicians that play on California Girls and Let Him Run Wild.  But the Lyrics throw you off.  You're So Good to Me and Girl Don't Tell me are pretty straightforward, but they are unique contributions to the Beach Boys catalog, they never did any other songs in the style of those individual songs again.  Brian never sang a lead like he did on YSGTM again...
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2006, 09:37:33 PM »

I think Party is the real precursor to Pet Sounds. Some stark, heartfelt and simple oldies to clear the creative decks for incredible complexities to come.

I would say that the music for Salt Lake, nad Summer Means New Love, and the vocal arrangement of And Your Dream are very close to PS as well.
Musically, I would say Brian was getting into PS territory as early as the Surfer Girl LP.
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 09:41:49 PM »

Quote
"California girls" and "Let Him Run Wild" were very innovative in their time.  Except for that, everything seems to be a step backwards.  The Today album was a step up from all summer long.  They started singing more emotional songs.  The harmonies and arrangements also became more elaborate.  I think that Today is the real precursor to pet sounds, not Summer Days and Summer Nights.
...but only if you privilege continuums.  'Summer Days...' is a rockin' and gorgeous sounding album.  'Today!' may seem to indicate a "building" towards something more aesthetically challenging, but isn't such thinking the result of historical interpretation?  I love the fact that BW was a mixed bag of goodies - he was all over the place artistically.  

Ask Ian about 'Party!' which follows both...

EDIT:  Ian, you clearly have ESP.
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 09:46:14 PM »

Quote
"California girls" and "Let Him Run Wild" were very innovative in their time.  Except for that, everything seems to be a step backwards.  The Today album was a step up from all summer long.  They started singing more emotional songs.  The harmonies and arrangements also became more elaborate.  I think that Today is the real precursor to pet sounds, not Summer Days and Summer Nights.
...but only if you privilege continuums.  'Summer Days...' is a rockin' and gorgeous sounding album.  'Today!' may seem to indicate a "building" towards something more aesthetically challenging, but isn't such thinking the result of historical interpretation?  I love the fact that BW was a mixed bag of goodies - he was all over the place artistically.  

Ask Ian about 'Party!' which follows both...

EDIT:  Ian, you clearly have ESP.

 Grin
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2006, 10:00:03 PM »

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I would have to disagree with Today being his first "masterpiece". I honestly think that the "All Summer Long" album is where Brian really had it all together. If you look at the track listing, almost all of the songs are gems. (excluding Carl's Big chance and Our fav. Recording sessions) Even today has its flaws. I honestly cant stand Dennis on In the Back of my mind. I wouldnt go so far as to say the song is bad itself, but Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

I agree. It just doesn't FIT. Dennis' vocals seem off, for some reason. I wish I could explain why, but they just do.
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2006, 10:07:02 PM »

I would have to disagree with Today being his first "masterpiece". I honestly think that the "All Summer Long" album is where Brian really had it all together. If you look at the track listing, almost all of the songs are gems. (excluding Carl's Big chance and Our fav. Recording sessions) Even today has its flaws. I honestly cant stand Dennis on In the Back of my mind. I wouldnt go so far as to say the song is bad itself, but Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

Also possibly off topic, was  "All Dressed Up for School" an outake of Today! or Summer days?

thanks

windchimes

I'm glad to hear All Summer Long is your favorite...mine too...common ground? I was surprised to see you enjoyed that one so much...since Dennis played drums on most of it...and his voice is all over it too...especially on Girls on the Beach, Little Honda, All Summer Long, I Get Around...to me All Summer Long and Today are very much "Dennis" LP's in that he is very heavily involved, unlike Pet Sounds and Summer Days where his presence is much less. Anyway, glad we can agree on something. 
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2006, 04:59:21 AM »

Jon, you'll be glad to know I spinned "ASL" in my car yesterday, and I'm thinking an essay on that album won't be all that hard to do.  As Josh said, there are some gaps in terms of documentation, but plenty of session tapes have materialized.

It's interesting to look at where Brian was in relation to the band, and just in general, over the course of those three albums:  touring member under immense pressure to churn out the hits ("ASL"), expanding musical genius who gives up the road halfway through production ("Today"), and studio-only savant ("SDSN").  Not to mention the drugs...I think it was during "Today" that Brian started smoking pot, and we know he dropped acid for the first time during the "SDSN" era.

Craig
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2006, 06:33:28 AM »

In my opinion, Today AND All Summer Long have it all over Summer Days. The latter just seemed too rushed, and was really a "sidestep" when Brian kept making huge leaps forward. Yes, there are of course several gems, but Today and All Summer Long basically lack any filler.

The most satisying album to hear through, after Pet Sounds, is All Summer Long. If pressed, I'd even take it over Today. It was a giant leap from Shut Down Volume II, and an essay from Craig would be another great read.

To really analogize it, Summer Days is kind of like Beatles For Sale to me; a tired, rushed effort, still MILES beyond anything anyone else was doing, but not a great jump forward...
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No. Fourteen
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2006, 06:59:37 AM »

Quote



I would have to disagree with Today being his first "masterpiece". I honestly think that the "All Summer Long" album is where Brian really had it all together. If you look at the track listing, almost all of the songs are gems. (excluding Carl's Big chance and Our fav. Recording sessions) Even today has its flaws. I honestly cant stand Dennis on In the Back of my mind. I wouldnt go so far as to say the song is bad itself, but Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

I agree. It just doesn't FIT. Dennis' vocals seem off, for some reason. I wish I could explain why, but they just do.


I think it may have something to with the result of the double-tracked vocals.  On the SOT set, I think he sounds better before the double is added.  The vocal also sounds much louder than the beautiful backing track in the finished product.  I wonder how it would've come off had Brian or Carl done the vocal.  Carl doesn't have any leads on TODAY, does he?
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2006, 07:08:16 AM »

We need some love for the backing track of Girl From NYC.  Lyrically, yes, a throwback, but Brian Wilson had never done such full, rich uptempo tracks before then.  I think that the production style was still growing.

BTW -- this thread seems to assume that the best BB albums were PS or before.  Remember the contingent here who were blown away by later works that are to them as good if not better (i.e. Sunflower).
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Dan Lega
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2006, 07:29:33 AM »

I'm in the "Today" camp myself.  I rate it and "Friends" as my favorite Beach Boy albums.  Yes, even over "Pet Sounds".  (Of course, if "SMiLE" had been finished I'm sure that would have been my favorite Beach Boy album.  Why even in it's unfinished state it's still my favorite.)

But back to "Today"... I love that album so much because it has the best of both Beach Boys' worlds: the great fun-party-upbeat-dance tunes and the achingly beautiful songs and melancholy of "Pet Sounds".  Granted, it does have the clunker of the Earl Leaf track, and I've never really gotten into "In The Back Of My Mind", but the rest of the album is super tight.  It just all fits and flows together until those last two numbers.  "Summer Days", on the other hand, comes across as a bit more loosely recorded overall to me.  Undoubtedly there are absolutely great tracks on there, but I just get the feeling that overall the album wasn't as well thought out or put together as "Today" was, or "Pet Sounds" (or "Friends" or "Wild Honey" or even "Smiley Smile") would be.

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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2006, 07:36:40 AM »

On SD/SN, the tracks from 'Salt Lake City' to 'Summer Means New Love' are an absolute murderer's row of tunes  the rest isn't too bad either.) I can't think of too many records by any other artists that have such stunning variety and quality. That album isn't a step backwards; as has already been asserted, the sound and musical complexity of the tracks was an advance from the previous album. And just because the emotional timbre had changed to something less serious than side 2 of Today does not means that SD/SN should be taken less seriously.
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2006, 08:03:31 AM »

That album isn't a step backwards; as has already been asserted, the sound and musical complexity of the tracks was an advance from the previous album.

No, it wasn't. "You're So Good To Me" is a simple rocker, and the chords and arrangement would have fit well back on Shut Down Volume II. "Then I Kissed Her," as far as covers go, is nowhere near "I'm So Young." "Girl Don't Tell Me" is a nice song, don't get me wrong, but there is nothing musically complex about it. It doesn't even have a signature Wilson key change throughout the whole tune, and the chords don't venture outside of A-G-D and E, with a quick minor chord gracing the chorus. "Girl From New York City" and "Salt Lake City" match up with "Good To My Baby" and "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" as not quite filler but not quite classics, either.

"Let Him Run Wild" and the opening of "California Girls" are the only musically complex parts; the bridge of "Summer Means New Love" is sweet, but not much different than anything Brian had been doing. "Help Me Rhonda" is an improvement upon the original, but how many albums repeat a song from the album before? Maybe ones that are hurting for truly fresh material?

I believe it is a sidestep, not a step backward, and is more of a holding pattern disc with a few gems. Had "Little Girl I Once Knew" made the album, it would have strenghtened it considerably, as that is complex and forward-reaching. One of BW's best compositions.
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