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Author Topic: today of Summer days  (Read 6863 times)
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 09:24:57 AM »

Fortunately, musical progression isn't judged by the number of chords used in a song or if there is a key change.  Name one song the Beach Boys did that sounds like Girl Don't Tell Me.  It's a sound Brian hadn't tried before, and for me, that's the kind of thing that makes SDSN a step forward.  An expansion of the vocabulary.  Perhaps that's why the album seems disjointed to some people, it's a feeling-out record.  But even when Brian's feeling out where he wants to go, he's going forward.
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 09:39:29 AM »

Fortunately, musical progression isn't judged by the number of chords used in a song or if there is a key change.  Name one song the Beach Boys did that sounds like Girl Don't Tell Me.  It's a sound Brian hadn't tried before, and for me, that's the kind of thing that makes SDSN a step forward.  An expansion of the vocabulary.  Perhaps that's why the album seems disjointed to some people, it's a feeling-out record.  But even when Brian's feeling out where he wants to go, he's going forward.

I of course respect your opinion and all you have done - but I disagree about Girl Don't Tell Me. A sound that Brian hadn't tried before - true. Acoustic guitar, simple chords, no harmony vocals. I don't think it's a step forward in the traditional sense, but I guess if you subscribe to the make-it-simpler-and-that's-more-complex school of thought, then it is a step forward. Like Some may consider Smiley Smile a step forward off the original Smile material. I just don't.
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 09:45:25 AM »

Well, of course, Brian came up with "Girl Don't Tell Me" after hearing "Ticket To Ride", right? No one can deny that. The genius was in coming up with an even more appealing melody line to the verse than the Beatles did. The production is much more modest, but the wistfulness of the song is true to its lyrics whereas the Beatles' melody and vocal arrangement seem to be at odds with the lyrical subject matter of their song. So, in a way, Brian's rip-off is an improvement on the original.

I don't understand why people find "In The Back Of My Mind" unappealing; it's one of the finest tracks Brian ever cut and Dennis' vocals sound quite heartfelt. It would have been stellar with Brian or Carl on lead, but I'm happy that Dennis gets to open and close "Today".
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2006, 09:48:05 AM »

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I guess if you subscribe to the make-it-simpler-and-that's-more-complex school of thought

I don't.  I subscribe to the make-it-different-and-that's-different school of thought.  So many bands do the same thing over and over, same instrumentation, same production, etc.  And Girl Don't Tell Me is a genuine departure from other paths Brian was following.  And that's a sign of a musician that's progressing.  That's what's so fascinating about the Shut Down II-Pet Sounds period in general.  Each album, you have the retreads, the big steps, the one-offs...it's never boring.  An exciting time.
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2006, 10:02:00 AM »

 That's what's so fascinating about the Shut Down II-Pet Sounds period in general.  Each album, you have the retreads, the big steps, the one-offs...it's never boring.  An exciting time.

I'll give you that one! In 3 years, Brian did more than, arguably, most others have done in a lifetime.

Hope you are enjoying your new position.
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2006, 10:08:29 AM »

Well, of course, Brian came up with "Girl Don't Tell Me" after hearing "Ticket To Ride", right? No one can deny that. The genius was in coming up with an even more appealing melody line to the verse than the Beatles did. The production is much more modest, but the wistfulness of the song is true to its lyrics whereas the Beatles' melody and vocal arrangement seem to be at odds with the lyrical subject matter of their song. So, in a way, Brian's rip-off is an improvement on the original.


Sorry, no. Ticket to Ride has it all over Girl Don't Tell Me. They're both in the key of A, and they both have "hi-hi-hi" in the chorus, but that is where the comparison ends.

And the arrangement of Ticket to Ride is not at odds with the lyrics! Quite the opposite! Ringo's cutting-edge drum pattern, suggested by Paul, is about tension and yearning, and gives the song that atmosphere.

And as far as the lyrics go, the line "I met you last summer when I came up to stay with my Gran" is a great example of how they just don't hold a candle to Ticket's lyrics. 
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« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2006, 10:18:41 AM »

I was riding in the car with my dad a few weeks ago when he was out here, and we were listening to the Today/SDSN twofer, and when Girl Don't Tell Me came on, he suddenly gasped and said something like "Oh wow, I remember this song.  I really connected with it.  That happened to me so many times at summer camps. " and he went on to desccribe how the song meant something to him.

As I've mentioned, I don't care about lyrics, but I thought it was interesting that of all the songs on SDSN, the one my dad remembered with the most emotion was that one.  So the lyrics hold a candle to "Ticket" to at least a few of us.
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2006, 01:05:28 PM »

I was riding in the car with my dad a few weeks ago when he was out here, and we were listening to the Today/SDSN twofer, and when Girl Don't Tell Me came on, he suddenly gasped and said something like "Oh wow, I remember this song.  I really connected with it.  That happened to me so many times at summer camps. " and he went on to desccribe how the song meant something to him.

As I've mentioned, I don't care about lyrics, but I thought it was interesting that of all the songs on SDSN, the one my dad remembered with the most emotion was that one.  So the lyrics hold a candle to "Ticket" to at least a few of us.

Man...when I read that post I had to respond. Tell your dad I can definitely relate. The first time I heard Girl Don't tell Me...or the first time it really penetrated into my being was probably 1974...and it nearly made me cry. I was 16 or 17 and crying was truly an uncool thing to do...but I knew exactly what Brian was trying to communicate. I'd met a girl in the summer of '72 while vacationing on a lake in the California mountains with my folks. And we had our intense week of sweet teen passion. Her name was Robin and I can still feel her warm skin, and soft blonde hair. I was 15 and she was 16. I can remember the thrill of telling my friends back home about this awesome girl I'd met. And I remember the excruciating sadness when she didn't respond to the two letters I wrote her. I was crushed. The next summer I went back to the same place with my folks...and guess what? Robin was there again too...her hair was longer...and she obviously felt no guilt about not writing me back. I was pissed, but I still told her to jump on the back of my Honda and ride into the woods with me. I made out with her again, and we laughed and ran around together just as we had the year before...but it seemed so hollow in comparison. Deep down I knew that to Robin I was just temporary fun, and that once I was gone she wouldn't think about me, and wouldn't write me. That was the last time I saw her.

When I heard Girl Don't Tell Me it was like the Beach Boys had reached right into my life...into my heart...into the most personal place where NO ONE went... and they said 'yeah, its sad Jon...but its a beautiful sadness.' Its that kind of bitterweet sadness you learn to cherish as time goes by. Once life sands away all the rough edges and all the truly new and fresh experiences are in your past...the memories of warm sparkling summer nights with girls like Robin stand out. And every time I hear that song she comes back to me, and every time I hear it I cherish the beautiful sadness I still feel inside...three decades later. When I reflect on things like this I'm sure it may seem silly to some...but I feel like Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys gave me so much. Like the chance to revisit how Robin broke my heart..and how time takes that pain and turns into something kind of sweet.       
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« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2006, 01:12:21 PM »

Definately Today. Side A takes the old Beach Boys rock 'n' roll sound to a new level, side B is a great Pet Sounds preview.

Summer Days has some good songs but is overall definately a step back. It's almost (?) like Brian wanted to get it done with so he could start working on his superior next project...
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« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2006, 01:39:53 PM »

I was riding in the car with my dad a few weeks ago when he was out here, and we were listening to the Today/SDSN twofer, and when Girl Don't Tell Me came on, he suddenly gasped and said something like "Oh wow, I remember this song.  I really connected with it.  That happened to me so many times at summer camps. " and he went on to desccribe how the song meant something to him.

As I've mentioned, I don't care about lyrics, but I thought it was interesting that of all the songs on SDSN, the one my dad remembered with the most emotion was that one.  So the lyrics hold a candle to "Ticket" to at least a few of us.

Man...when I read that post I had to respond. Tell your dad I can definitely relate. The first time I heard Girl Don't tell Me...or the first time it really penetrated into my being was probably 1974...and it nearly made me cry. I was 16 or 17 and crying was truly an uncool thing to do...but I knew exactly what Brian was trying to communicate. I'd met a girl in the summer of '72 while vacationing on a lake in the California mountains with my folks. And we had our intense week of sweet teen passion. Her name was Robin and I can still feel her warm skin, and soft blonde hair. I was 15 and she was 16. I can remember the thrill of telling my friends back home about this awesome girl I'd met. And I remember the excruciating sadness when she didn't respond to the two letters I wrote her. I was crushed. The next summer I went back to the same place with my folks...and guess what? Robin was there again too...her hair was longer...and she obviously felt no guilt about not writing me back. I was pissed, but I still told her to jump on the back of my Honda and ride into the woods with me. I made out with her again, and we laughed and ran around together just as we had the year before...but it seemed so hollow in comparison. Deep down I knew that to Robin I was just temporary fun, and that once I was gone she wouldn't think about me, and wouldn't write me. That was the last time I saw her.

When I heard Girl Don't Tell Me it was like the Beach Boys had reached right into my life...into my heart...into the most personal place where NO ONE went... and they said 'yeah, its sad Jon...but its a beautiful sadness.' Its that kind of bitterweet sadness you learn to cherish as time goes by. Once life sands away all the rough edges and all the truly new and fresh experiences are in your past...the memories of warm sparkling summer nights with girls like Robin stand out. And every time I hear that song she comes back to me, and every time I hear it I cherish the beautiful sadness I still feel inside...three decades later. When I reflect on things like this I'm sure it may seem silly to some...but I feel like Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys gave me so much. Like the chance to revisit how Robin broke my heart..and how time takes that pain and turns into something kind of sweet.       
Beautiful, man. Beautiful.
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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2006, 02:17:12 PM »

I was riding in the car with my dad a few weeks ago when he was out here, and we were listening to the Today/SDSN twofer, and when Girl Don't Tell Me came on, he suddenly gasped and said something like "Oh wow, I remember this song.  I really connected with it.  That happened to me so many times at summer camps. " and he went on to desccribe how the song meant something to him.

As I've mentioned, I don't care about lyrics, but I thought it was interesting that of all the songs on SDSN, the one my dad remembered with the most emotion was that one.  So the lyrics hold a candle to "Ticket" to at least a few of us.

Man...when I read that post I had to respond. Tell your dad I can definitely relate. The first time I heard Girl Don't tell Me...or the first time it really penetrated into my being was probably 1974...and it nearly made me cry. I was 16 or 17 and crying was truly an uncool thing to do...but I knew exactly what Brian was trying to communicate. I'd met a girl in the summer of '72 while vacationing on a lake in the California mountains with my folks. And we had our intense week of sweet teen passion. Her name was Robin and I can still feel her warm skin, and soft blonde hair. I was 15 and she was 16. I can remember the thrill of telling my friends back home about this awesome girl I'd met. And I remember the excruciating sadness when she didn't respond to the two letters I wrote her. I was crushed. The next summer I went back to the same place with my folks...and guess what? Robin was there again too...her hair was longer...and she obviously felt no guilt about not writing me back. I was pissed, but I still told her to jump on the back of my Honda and ride into the woods with me. I made out with her again, and we laughed and ran around together just as we had the year before...but it seemed so hollow in comparison. Deep down I knew that to Robin I was just temporary fun, and that once I was gone she wouldn't think about me, and wouldn't write me. That was the last time I saw her.

When I heard Girl Don't Tell Me it was like the Beach Boys had reached right into my life...into my heart...into the most personal place where NO ONE went... and they said 'yeah, its sad Jon...but its a beautiful sadness.' Its that kind of bitterweet sadness you learn to cherish as time goes by. Once life sands away all the rough edges and all the truly new and fresh experiences are in your past...the memories of warm sparkling summer nights with girls like Robin stand out. And every time I hear that song she comes back to me, and every time I hear it I cherish the beautiful sadness I still feel inside...three decades later. When I reflect on things like this I'm sure it may seem silly to some...but I feel like Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys gave me so much. Like the chance to revisit how Robin broke my heart..and how time takes that pain and turns into something kind of sweet.       


Wow. That was an amazing, amazing post. Matches anything I have ever read about the power of music. Thanks for sharing that.
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2006, 04:05:22 PM »

I was riding in the car with my dad a few weeks ago when he was out here, and we were listening to the Today/SDSN twofer, and when Girl Don't Tell Me came on, he suddenly gasped and said something like "Oh wow, I remember this song.  I really connected with it.  That happened to me so many times at summer camps. " and he went on to desccribe how the song meant something to him.

As I've mentioned, I don't care about lyrics, but I thought it was interesting that of all the songs on SDSN, the one my dad remembered with the most emotion was that one.  So the lyrics hold a candle to "Ticket" to at least a few of us.

Man...when I read that post I had to respond. Tell your dad I can definitely relate. The first time I heard Girl Don't tell Me...or the first time it really penetrated into my being was probably 1974...and it nearly made me cry. I was 16 or 17 and crying was truly an uncool thing to do...but I knew exactly what Brian was trying to communicate. I'd met a girl in the summer of '72 while vacationing on a lake in the California mountains with my folks. And we had our intense week of sweet teen passion. Her name was Robin and I can still feel her warm skin, and soft blonde hair. I was 15 and she was 16. I can remember the thrill of telling my friends back home about this awesome girl I'd met. And I remember the excruciating sadness when she didn't respond to the two letters I wrote her. I was crushed. The next summer I went back to the same place with my folks...and guess what? Robin was there again too...her hair was longer...and she obviously felt no guilt about not writing me back. I was pissed, but I still told her to jump on the back of my Honda and ride into the woods with me. I made out with her again, and we laughed and ran around together just as we had the year before...but it seemed so hollow in comparison. Deep down I knew that to Robin I was just temporary fun, and that once I was gone she wouldn't think about me, and wouldn't write me. That was the last time I saw her.

When I heard Girl Don't Tell Me it was like the Beach Boys had reached right into my life...into my heart...into the most personal place where NO ONE went... and they said 'yeah, its sad Jon...but its a beautiful sadness.' Its that kind of bitterweet sadness you learn to cherish as time goes by. Once life sands away all the rough edges and all the truly new and fresh experiences are in your past...the memories of warm sparkling summer nights with girls like Robin stand out. And every time I hear that song she comes back to me, and every time I hear it I cherish the beautiful sadness I still feel inside...three decades later. When I reflect on things like this I'm sure it may seem silly to some...but I feel like Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys gave me so much. Like the chance to revisit how Robin broke my heart..and how time takes that pain and turns into something kind of sweet.       

Doesn't seem silly at all, Jon.  Thanks for sharing that amazing personal insight.

Craig
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2006, 05:19:33 PM »

I think many of us may have felt what Jon described so beautifully which is why I think "Girl Don't Tell Me" works emotionally where "Ticket To Ride" misses somehow. Not that I don't like "Ticket..."; obviously the production and vocals are better than on "Girl...", but that "girl that's driving me mad is going away...YEAH" inflection sounds detached even if the lyrics are arguably better.

As far as similarities between the two songs go, I think that chiming guitar break kind of blows Brian's "cover".

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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2006, 06:01:18 PM »

Damnit. I just read Jon's post and was going to say how it was amazing, touching. But about 50,000 (give or take 49,997) people already did. Now I'd look like a copycat.

But it was. Nice post, Jon. The kind of thing pop/rock music is actually all about, as far as I'm concerned.
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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2006, 06:53:32 AM »

As far as similarities between the two songs go, I think that chiming guitar break kind of blows Brian's "cover".

The chorus lyrics give it away too. Both have the title of the song repeated 3 times and both end with similar sounding words (right - ride)...
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« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2006, 10:34:29 AM »

Quote
Dennis' vocal on that track is nauseating.

You saying that made me want to throw up, funny.

I agree with Windchimes. Dennis' vocal just seems to sit on top of the track without really blending with the music. It almost sounds like he's singing a different song. I much prefer the instrumental version of  In the Back of my Mind. Now that is just a perfect piece of music as it stands.
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« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2006, 12:03:23 PM »

I remember back in 1972, here in the UK, buying an import double LP, I can't remember from which country, it comprised of Shut Down vol 2 & Today.
Both albums had two tracks missing, Shut Down 2 missed 'In The Parking Lot' & 'Cassius Love vs Sonny Wilson and Today missed 'In The Back Of My Mind' & 'Bull Session With Big Daddy'.
That version of Today would have suited some of these people.
The album was called 'FUN FUN FUN / DANCE DANCE DANCE. wonder if anyone else remembers it?
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« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2006, 01:06:14 PM »

I remember back in 1972, here in the UK, buying an import double LP, I can't remember from which country, it comprised of Shut Down vol 2 & Today.
Both albums had two tracks missing, Shut Down 2 missed 'In The Parking Lot' & 'Cassius Love vs Sonny Wilson and Today missed 'In The Back Of My Mind' & 'Bull Session With Big Daddy'.
That version of Today would have suited some of these people.
The album was called 'FUN FUN FUN / DANCE DANCE DANCE. wonder if anyone else remembers it?


     They had that type of thing here in the US, too.  They were single LP's, though, and every one of them had two tracks missing.

           Love and merci,  Dan Lega
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« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2006, 03:45:25 PM »

'In The Back Of My Mind" is in my opinion the best track on Today. It's also of serious competition to any of Brian's strong and moving ballads. I love Dennis' vocal on that song, though it took me some time to appreciate it fully. His bits toward the end are nothing short of breathtaking. The song is also full of musical things which Brian had only slightly touched on before.
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« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2006, 05:46:36 AM »

I remember back in 1972, here in the UK, buying an import double LP, I can't remember from which country, it comprised of Shut Down vol 2 & Today.
Both albums had two tracks missing, Shut Down 2 missed 'In The Parking Lot' & 'Cassius Love vs Sonny Wilson and Today missed 'In The Back Of My Mind' & 'Bull Session With Big Daddy'.
That version of Today would have suited some of these people.
The album was called 'FUN FUN FUN / DANCE DANCE DANCE. wonder if anyone else remembers it?


     They had that type of thing here in the US, too.  They were single LP's, though, and every one of them had two tracks missing.

           Love and merci,  Dan Lega

I think that import may well have been American Dan, it was so long ago and I no longer have it.
It was two single LPs sealed together in cellophane with the opening on one sleeve the wrong end so they could be sealed back to back.
If I remember correctly the picture on one sleeve showed them playing somewhere live on stage late 60s/early 70s.
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« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2006, 06:49:34 AM »

'In The Back Of My Mind" is in my opinion the best track on Today. It's also of serious competition to any of Brian's strong and moving ballads. I love Dennis' vocal on that song, though it took me some time to appreciate it fully. His bits toward the end are nothing short of breathtaking. The song is also full of musical things which Brian had only slightly touched on before.

I agree completely.  I love ITBOMM.  It's actually my favorite track on Today, along with "I'm So Young" (even though that's a cover) and "When I Grow Up." 

I think the Summer Days album is absolutely fantastic.  I think the instrumental tracks were considerably more interesting than on Today -- aeijzstche is right about the variety in the presentation of Girl Don't Tell Me and You're So Good to Me.  The only track on Summer Days that leaves me cold is Then I Kissed Her.  While a lot of the lyrics on the album are of the "fun 'n' sun" variety, many of them (especially California Girls, Salt Lake City, Amusement Parks) are the apotheosis of that lyrical style. 

Besides which, I have never been able to see the great emotional depth or maturity of Please Let Me Wonder, Kiss Me Baby, or She Knows Me Too Well.  Yes, they are ballads, but are their lyrics really that much different from many other early-to-mid sixties teenage angst/love songs?  Don't get me wrong, I think those are excellent songs, but I feel that an absurd cult has built up around them and "Today side two" (a cult started by David Leaf, it seems) that blows their significance way out of proportion and unfairly denigrates Summer Days as a "step backward on the road to Pet Sounds."

This may be blasphemy, but I will take "California Girls" and "Let Him Run Wild" over any tracks on Today or Pet Sounds -- I don't think Brian (or anyone else) has ever improved on those two cuts, which represent (to me) absolute pop/rock nirvana.
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« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2006, 11:21:00 AM »

Please Let Me Wonder is a song I really identify with.. I may have interpreted it wrong, but it brings to mind for me the fact that with nearly every girl I've ever had feelings for, I didn't want to tell her, even if I thought she might've had feelings for me. I'd rather continue the relationship platonically and have it eventually fade away than tell her my feelings and have her tell me she doesn't feel the same. That "For so long I thought about it / and now I just can't live without it / this beautiful image I have of you" line speaks to me so much, like 'I don't want to ruin what I think it between us by finding out that it's not really there'.

The last time I asked a girl out, I was 15 years old.
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« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2006, 06:14:11 PM »

I was reading Rolling Stone's top 500 albums of all time, and Today! was one of the albums.  All Summer Long, and Summer Days were NOT on the list.  I feel vindicated and right in saying that Today! was Brian's first masterpiece. 
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« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2006, 07:48:20 PM »

Well if Rolling Stone said so...
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« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2006, 10:50:56 PM »

I would like a list of names.

Who did Rolling Stone pick to decide which albums are the most important?
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