Was the songwriting better without Brian..?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think a case can be made that from 68-85, the other guys combined had a better collection of songs without Brian than with. I think Dennis did anyway if you include POB. But what Brian did, especially in the 63-67 era, no one else in the band ever did. They all had moments and songs that came close. Perhaps if Dennis stayed focused on solo albums from 69-77, but we'll never know.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Carl and Dennis' songs and POB, as well as Disney Girls are as good as anything Brian ever did ...... But hey, they're all in the same band, so no harm done.

[RangeRoverA1]

Carl and Dennis' songs and POB, as well as Disney Girls are as good as anything Brian ever did ...... But hey, they're all in the same band, so no harm done.

You must be kidding me. But hey, it's just one man's opinion, so no harm done.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Carl and Dennis' songs and POB, as well as Disney Girls are as good as anything Brian ever did ...... But hey, they're all in the same band, so no harm done.

You must be kidding me. But hey, it's just one man's opinion, so no harm done.

Disney Girls is an all-time classic! Brian would be proud to have written it!

I didn't say better than anything Brian's done, just AS GOOD ..... But it's a mere one song vs countless awesome Brian stuff, so hey....

[RangeRoverA1]

Disney Girls is an all-time classic!

I s'pose we have differing views on what is "all-time classic".

I didn't say better than anything Brian's done, just AS GOOD

I got it, but I wouldn't say that DG is even AS GOOD.

But it's a mere one song vs countless awesome Brian stuff, so hey

Yes, so it goes back to "no harm done".

[Cabinessenceking]

To answer the thread topic, no.

[Nothgual]

Nothing that the rest of them did came close to what Brian did in any regard. Doesn't mean the stuff the rest did was bad. Just means that what Brian did was out of this world.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Disney Girls is an all-time classic!

I s'pose we have differing views on what is "all-time classic".

I didn't say better than anything Brian's done, just AS GOOD

I got it, but I wouldn't say that DG is even AS GOOD.

But it's a mere one song vs countless awesome Brian stuff, so hey

Yes, so it goes back to "no harm done".

A song beloved by many and preferably covered by other artists fits my definition of an all-time classic.

You guys act like someone giving props to one little song is somehow a threat to Brian.... No one's going to take away any of his awards because some guy really really likes Disney Girls.

I swear this kind of almost angry idol worship probably freaks Brian out.

[Mendota Heights]

To me it is obvious The Beach Boys success spells Brian Wilson and (almost) Brian Wilson only. The Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's 1961 - 1966 period. This is the period the general public knows and cherishes. It contains the biggest hits + Pet Sounds/SMiLE. Besides Brian Dennis was by far the most competent songwriter of the Beach Boys. Carl wrote a few decent tracks. I would not say Al wrote any super good songs (correct me if I am wrong). Mike is not able to write/produce/arrange a song by himself - he needs all the help he can get. Big Sur is his best effort though.

Brian wrote the hits, Brian wrote the legendary albums Pet Sounds and SMiLE. He continued writing gems like 'Til I Die, but his output unfortunately waned post 1967 and so did the popularity of the Beach Boys. Brian's songwriting and the success of the Beach Boys go hand in hand.

I think it can not be any clearer.

[MugginsXO]

I think only a person very, very, very far down the rabbit hole could claim that the BBs did better songs without Brian. At best they maintained an engine already running. At worst they wrote Sumahama.

[the captain]

I don't think anyone here has given a reasonable or defensible argument that the songwriting was better without Brian than with him. The closest to it seems to be saying that the others wrote some good (and even some great) material, which is true ... But not the same thing. Just as it doesn't diminish Brian's greatness to acknowledge the others' good work, neither does it dismiss theirs to be realistic.

Personal taste is fine, but if it's possible to be objective about the quality of music, I doubt many people would agree with the subject of the thread. However, if the point was just trolling, I suppose it's not necessary to make arguments.

[halblaineisgood]

accidental post.

[Loaf]

Not that i have any insight into the writing of the song, but California Calling sounds to me more like an Al song than Brian's.

I'm not disputing either of them had input, or the extent, just what the finished product sounds like. I'd always (prior to today) assumed Brian's credit was on there either in the same way that Brian got credited on Deirdre (5% input), or for the California Girls-style bvs.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think this thread proves even the Kokomaoists can get trolled :/

[RangeRoverA1]

A song beloved by many and preferably covered by other artists fits my definition of an all-time classic.

That is quite fair. I completely forgot that Cass Elliott & Garfunkel covered it.

I swear this kind of almost angry idol worship probably freaks Brian out.

Dunno if you're pointing this at me, but I'm certainly not a worshipping type. I don't idolize anyone in the band, more than they deserve anyway. I still disagree with you on Disney Girls, doesn't mean that I worship Brian. Hence, I didn't highlight Carl & Dennis in my last quoting of your post. To give you a clue, "Trader" to me is AS good as any Brian song. For Dennis, it's "Celebrate the News". And on & on.

Also, no anger on my side, it's called "debate". Don't you think it'd be boring if we all agreed on everything like puppets?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not that i have any insight into the writing of the song, but California Calling sounds to me more like an Al song than Brian's.

I'm not disputing either of them had input, or the extent, just what the finished product sounds like. I'd always (prior to today) assumed Brian's credit was on there either in the same way that Brian got credited on Deirdre (5% input), or for the California Girls-style bvs.

I direct you to post #49 below, as you've obviously not read it. 

[Nicko1234]

Not that i have any insight into the writing of the song, but California Calling sounds to me more like an Al song than Brian's.

I'm not disputing either of them had input, or the extent, just what the finished product sounds like. I'd always (prior to today) assumed Brian's credit was on there either in the same way that Brian got credited on Deirdre (5% input), or for the California Girls-style bvs.

I direct you to post #49 below, as you've obviously not read it. 

I`m not disputing your info at all (and we all know what Al`s memory is like) but interestingly in an interview with ESQ in around 2000 Al said he couldn`t recall Brian having written any of California Callin` and said that sometimes he would give him writing credits as a gesture due to Brian`s massive contribution back in the 60s.

[Loaf]

Not that i have any insight into the writing of the song, but California Calling sounds to me more like an Al song than Brian's.

I'm not disputing either of them had input, or the extent, just what the finished product sounds like. I'd always (prior to today) assumed Brian's credit was on there either in the same way that Brian got credited on Deirdre (5% input), or for the California Girls-style bvs.

I direct you to post #49 below, as you've obviously not read it. 

I`m not disputing your info at all (and we all know what Al`s memory is like) but interestingly in an interview with ESQ in around 2000 Al said he couldn`t recall Brian having written any of California Callin` and said that sometimes he would give him writing credits as a gesture due to Brian`s massive contribution back in the 60s.

Andrew, it was your post that i was referencing (and why i added several caveats as to my own prior (i.e. prior to post #49) lack of knowledge in this area), when i wrote mine, but i must have clicked reply instead of quote 

My own prior (i.e. prior to post #49) opinion was in line with Nicko1234's post.

The song sounds just like something Al would write in the mid 1980s. Catchy but derivative.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

To me it is obvious The Beach Boys success spells Brian Wilson and (almost) Brian Wilson only. The Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's 1961 - 1966 period. This is the period the general public knows and cherishes. It contains the biggest hits + Pet Sounds/SMiLE. Besides Brian Dennis was by far the most competent songwriter of the Beach Boys. Carl wrote a few decent tracks. I would not say Al wrote any super good songs (correct me if I am wrong). Mike is not able to write/produce/arrange a song by himself - he needs all the help he can get. Big Sur is his best effort though.

Brian wrote the hits, Brian wrote the legendary albums Pet Sounds and SMiLE. He continued writing gems like 'Til I Die, but his output unfortunately waned post 1967 and so did the popularity of the Beach Boys. Brian's songwriting and the success of the Beach Boys go hand in hand.

I think it can not be any clearer.

I agree with you that Dennis is closest to Brian. Or that Carl wrote a few good tracks. But in my opinion, Al does have some top notch songs. With Mike (DGNTW and CS suite), LAT, SAW are 3 that I love. LL was a big hit as well in some areas. I don't count CF since he didn't write it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

With the best will in the world, you can't honestly say he wrote "Lookin' At Tomorrow" either.

[mtaber]

John Entwistle wrote "My Wife" and "Boris the Spider", but I think perhaps The Who still needed some minor contributions from that Townshend guy...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

To me it is obvious The Beach Boys success spells Brian Wilson and (almost) Brian Wilson only. The Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's 1961 - 1966 period. This is the period the general public knows and cherishes. It contains the biggest hits + Pet Sounds/SMiLE. Besides Brian Dennis was by far the most competent songwriter of the Beach Boys. Carl wrote a few decent tracks. I would not say Al wrote any super good songs (correct me if I am wrong). Mike is not able to write/produce/arrange a song by himself - he needs all the help he can get. Big Sur is his best effort though.

Brian wrote the hits, Brian wrote the legendary albums Pet Sounds and SMiLE. He continued writing gems like 'Til I Die, but his output unfortunately waned post 1967 and so did the popularity of the Beach Boys. Brian's songwriting and the success of the Beach Boys go hand in hand.

I think it can not be any clearer.

You guys act like the other Beach Boys brought nothin to the table that matters toward a band being a functioning band that could achieve massive success as a 1960s pop band.

So, if Brian had been an only child and with no cousin named Mike Love, we surely still have The Beach Boys? Like any guys off the street would have made it happen?

[lostbeachboy]

I would have to disagree with Dennis when he said "Brian is the beach boys, we're his f***ing messengers.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

To me it is obvious The Beach Boys success spells Brian Wilson and (almost) Brian Wilson only. The Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's 1961 - 1966 period. This is the period the general public knows and cherishes. It contains the biggest hits + Pet Sounds/SMiLE. Besides Brian Dennis was by far the most competent songwriter of the Beach Boys. Carl wrote a few decent tracks. I would not say Al wrote any super good songs (correct me if I am wrong). Mike is not able to write/produce/arrange a song by himself - he needs all the help he can get. Big Sur is his best effort though.

Brian wrote the hits, Brian wrote the legendary albums Pet Sounds and SMiLE. He continued writing gems like 'Til I Die, but his output unfortunately waned post 1967 and so did the popularity of the Beach Boys. Brian's songwriting and the success of the Beach Boys go hand in hand.

I think it can not be any clearer.

You guys act like the other Beach Boys brought nothin to the table that matters toward a band being a functioning band that could achieve massive success as a 1960s pop band.

So, if Brian had been an only child and with no cousin named Mike Love, we surely still have The Beach Boys? Like any guys off the street would have made it happen?

It is interesting that Brian scored his first #1 without the Beach Boys...

[MugginsXO]

To me it is obvious The Beach Boys success spells Brian Wilson and (almost) Brian Wilson only. The Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's 1961 - 1966 period. This is the period the general public knows and cherishes. It contains the biggest hits + Pet Sounds/SMiLE. Besides Brian Dennis was by far the most competent songwriter of the Beach Boys. Carl wrote a few decent tracks. I would not say Al wrote any super good songs (correct me if I am wrong). Mike is not able to write/produce/arrange a song by himself - he needs all the help he can get. Big Sur is his best effort though.

Brian wrote the hits, Brian wrote the legendary albums Pet Sounds and SMiLE. He continued writing gems like 'Til I Die, but his output unfortunately waned post 1967 and so did the popularity of the Beach Boys. Brian's songwriting and the success of the Beach Boys go hand in hand.

I think it can not be any clearer.

You guys act like the other Beach Boys brought nothin to the table that matters toward a band being a functioning band that could achieve massive success as a 1960s pop band.

So, if Brian had been an only child and with no cousin named Mike Love, we surely still have The Beach Boys? Like any guys off the street would have made it happen?

The contributions were not equal, but they were still contributions to the success of the band.