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Author Topic: Between 1967 and 1976 what albums/songs did Brian produce for the Beach Boys?  (Read 21728 times)
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2014, 03:17:44 AM »

...but anyway you count them, that's not a lot. Damn shame, he was pretty good at it whenever he got around to do it.

Personally I think he did some of his very best work in those years and maybe that's because he didn't have to come up with an album's worth of new material every couple of months. He clearly had lost some of his drive to be the leader of the group and maybe ideas weren't coming as easily or as quickly as before. Still, whenever he came up with something it was always totally brilliant. I mean, I Went to Sleep, 'Til I Die, Life of a Tree, Mess of Help, Mt. Vernon and Fairway... all this stuff is just incredibly unique!
i agree.

To be honest,  this is my favorite period of Brian, both writing and especially vocally.
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2014, 09:23:29 AM »

You're right, Phirnis... But still! One of the greatest musical minds was creatively in his prime (at least qualitywise, if not volume) and he managed to finish only about three songs a year! Well, the guy was not well, but it IS a bit frustrating to think about.

I agree there's something frustrating about it and still for me it made discovering the group's late-60s/early-70s catalogue all the more exciting--that whole process of seeking out the few but brilliant Brian compositions, trying to gather as much information as possible about to what extent he was involved in the respective songs' creation and completion, and so on... And framing these compositions you always had a bunch of great songs by the other guys giving it their best in order to live up to their former leader's reputation.
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2014, 09:58:44 AM »

1967:
Heroes And Villains
You're Welcome
Fall Breaks... And Back To Winter
Vegetables

The great conundrum of 1967 is that the credit "Produced By The Beach Boys" was new to the records, but in reality who was actually producing them? I've said this in another thread, but in the span of a year you had Carl and Dennis starting 1967 "learning the ropes" of running sessions and calling the shots in the studio via those Smile-era experiments like Tones and I Don't Know - and they are pretty decent but still naive and rather one-dimensional productions.

Then, move forward to the summer, if it's produced by The Beach Boys, how and why do many fans still refer it back to Brian's decision-making as far as how and why that album came together, and what it sounds like? Do we think someone else in the band had more of a say on how tracks like Wonderful and Wind Chimes came together than the guy who wrote them? Little Pad? Yeah, they're "group efforts" according to the credit but how much group was making the calls in those sessions? I'll say "How She Boogalooed It" sounds to my ears 100% like an all-group effort with little or barely much at all input from Brian as far as the studio work on that track. And you hear it. That's what the "group" produced in summer 1967 when given the wheel to steer the studio ship. Your ears tell the story as well as any credits or session documents.

Then "Leid In Hawaii", the great failed live project - Listen to the re-records at Heiders and other similar tapes. Who seemed to be calling the shots? Who does it sound like was calling the shots? It sure as hell wasn't Mike, Al, or Dennis, was it? Carl? Maybe.

Then, my main point in this: Wild Honey era. Brian was producing Redwood, The Boys were in need of a new album. There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.


Again, the conundrum: If Brian isn't listed in 1967 for Wild Honey, even parts of it, then what exactly did the other Beach Boys need him to do for them in the studio that he wasn't doing for them while he was working with Redwood? They needed him in the studio to produce, the album being worked up at the time was Wild Honey, so why the inference that he wasn't involved as producer to the point where nothing from that album is listed here, for example?

He may have handed off the ball to Carl in some ways to get him involved in the process but he didn't walk off the playing field entirely.

I think the terminology itself and the credits especially in 1967 are misleading just a bit, but that's my own take only.
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2014, 11:06:16 AM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2014, 11:17:22 AM »


I think the terminology itself and the credits especially in 1967 are misleading just a bit, but that's my own take only.
Mine too, as I wrote above. IMO, Brian produced all of Smiley Smile (who else in the BBs had the cojones to do that?) and most of Wild Honey with the possible exception of How She Boogalooed It, which sounds like a desperate attempt to be a-go-go hip.
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2014, 11:36:30 AM »

'scuse me, but I never said anything even vaguely like that.
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2014, 12:26:16 PM »

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« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2014, 01:38:10 PM »

I think the quote field messed up.
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« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2014, 01:50:43 PM »

I think the quote field messed up.

Does the field mess up on it's own?  Generally I presume it to be user error; oftentimes it seems to happen when someone is using a phone to post
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« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2014, 02:48:03 PM »

...but anyway you count them, that's not a lot. Damn shame, he was pretty good at it whenever he got around to do it.

Personally I think he did some of his very best work in those years and maybe that's because he didn't have to come up with an album's worth of new material every couple of months. He clearly had lost some of his drive to be the leader of the group and maybe ideas weren't coming as easily or as quickly as before. Still, whenever he came up with something it was always totally brilliant. I mean, I Went to Sleep, 'Til I Die, Life of a Tree, Mess of Help, Mt. Vernon and Fairway... all this stuff is just incredibly unique!
i agree.

To be honest,  this is my favorite period of Brian, both writing and especially vocally.

His singing from that particular time frame is indeed truly exceptional, can't get enough of it. For some reason it really strikes a chord with me, it always sounds both really sweet and slightly melancholy, which is a great mixture. When I first heard the Awake demo vocal of his I was stunned, though it's probably not perfect from a technical standpoint.
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2014, 08:31:41 AM »

I think the quote field messed up.

Yes, sorry about that, Andrew.
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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2014, 10:04:28 AM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.

Andrew, I wanted to ask about this and maybe clarify it too: Are you suggesting this did not happen, or are you suggesting the details of what may or may not have been said or perceived have been apocryphal? I'm going on the words of at least two of the three Redwood members who have told basically the same story about what happened in the studio that day. Summing it up, they were there as Brian was producing their music, and after several Beach Boys showed up and talked to Brian, Brian was no longer working on their record. And the reasoning as told by those members was that Brian was going to be producing the Beach Boys current album project instead of Redwood. And that was it, apart from Redwood being offered a Brother single rather than the full album production.

I know that there were questions about what those Redwood members may have thought was said by the Beach Boys as they watched from the studio, but the fact that the scene happened in general is pretty much a known thing and has been reported by several involved parties who were in the studio that day.

I've never seen the fact that the scene happened in the studio challenged or considered apocryphal in some way, so I'm curious where that was coming from.

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.
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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2014, 11:03:00 AM »

'scuse me, but I never said anything even vaguely like that.

It's fixed now.
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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2014, 11:15:03 AM »

I think the quote field messed up.

Does the field mess up on it's own?  Generally I presume it to be user error; oftentimes it seems to happen when someone is using a phone to post


Occasionally it happens on its own when the quote tree gets too big.
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« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2014, 12:41:36 PM »

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.

I think to get any kind of an answer about this, we have to examine what exactly the role of the producer is, which can be amorphous even under the most tightly controlled circumstances. Is he a moneyman in charge of making sure the recording is submitted on-time and under budget? A guy who sits behind the glass telling the engineer how to do his job? Or is he more actively involved, assisting with musical arrangements in pursuit of his own grand vision for the project?

Post-Smile, the Beach Boys found themselves in a situation where they had recently racked up a ton of studio costs to no avail and were desperately in need of getting some kind of product out on to market as soon as possible. I really believe this is why the focus changed from album to single around the turn of 1967. Time and money. If you look at it that way, the rationale for Smiley Smile really becomes apparent. They were way overdue for an album, so they took the songs they had that could be reworked most easily and recorded them as quickly as possible using minimal instrumentation. I personally think the results were brilliant nonetheless; but obviously Smiley is a divisive album amongst fans because of its lo-fi nature on the heels of the grandiose Smile sessions. And as much as I want to believe in my heart that this was a consciously plotted out move by Brian Wilson to become the godfather of indie, when confronted with the scenario at hand it really does seem that this was a move to get something, anything, with the name "Beach Boys" out on the racks and hopefully on the charts.

Sorry, I lost the plot for a minute; we were talking about producers. Okay, so in this scenario we have the band now recording themselves in Brian's new home studio which was still being pieced together. All the existing constraints of the big studios they were used to working in were now absent. Any of the six Beach Boys could now go into the control room and play with the faders, make suggestions over the talkback, or do any of the things producers generally do. It's like if you and I and a couple of buddies sat around the house one day and knocked out a single or EP onto Pro Tools or whatever. Likely everyone would contribute their two cents, and thus the "band" would share the producer credit, even if one guy was the primary songwriter and arranger.

The thing that intrigues me the most about Smiley and the similarly rush-released Wild Honey is the modularity concept; but as forward-thinking as that idea was, again it may not have been conceived as some grand artistic breakthrough as much as for expediency's sake. Simply, it's just easier for a somewhat shaky band (in terms of instrumental proficiency) as the Beach Boys to track a verse and a chorus and loop it three times, verses nailing a perfect take of a whole song. Not that they were incapable of doing so; but if time were really a factor then this approach makes a ton of sense.

It's worth noting too that the big, non-Smile derived "production numbers" on either album ("Fall Breaks" and "Darlin'") both seem to have been helmed entirely by Brian. This speaks to the Chuck Negron incident, as hypothetically the other Beach Boys might have seen the homespun modular school of recording as insufficiently capable of producing a "hot" sounding single aimed at the pop charts. And if so, they were likely right.

The irony here, if you can call it that, is that by the time Brian was (presumably) back in the driver's seat for Friends, he delivered excellent results and yet the album sank like a stone with the single doing only slightly better. I'm not looking at my notes right now, but I believe very little if any of Friends was recorded at the home studio, indicating that this was a push by the band to get back to what had initially made them successful in terms of the recording arrangement.
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« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2014, 01:43:17 PM »

opps I misread the thread title when posting my post.I was thinking of all the stuff he produced..my bad lol... although I'm wasn't too far off with "Spring"/ "American Spring" because of "Good Times" and "Had to phone ya"..
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« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2014, 04:21:08 PM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.

Andrew, I wanted to ask about this and maybe clarify it too: Are you suggesting this did not happen, or are you suggesting the details of what may or may not have been said or perceived have been apocryphal? I'm going on the words of at least two of the three Redwood members who have told basically the same story about what happened in the studio that day. Summing it up, they were there as Brian was producing their music, and after several Beach Boys showed up and talked to Brian, Brian was no longer working on their record. And the reasoning as told by those members was that Brian was going to be producing the Beach Boys current album project instead of Redwood. And that was it, apart from Redwood being offered a Brother single rather than the full album production.

I know that there were questions about what those Redwood members may have thought was said by the Beach Boys as they watched from the studio, but the fact that the scene happened in general is pretty much a known thing and has been reported by several involved parties who were in the studio that day.

I've never seen the fact that the scene happened in the studio challenged or considered apocryphal in some way, so I'm curious where that was coming from.

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.

It's late and I'm working from memory, but as far as I recall the only source for this event is Chuck Negron's autobiog. I also seem to recall TDN fans blowing holes in the chronology, and I definitely don't recall Danny Hutton ever saying word one about it in all the time since... and I think he would ! According to Negron, Mike & Carl turned up in the studio and as TDN watched (but could not hear), basically wore Brian down, reducing him to tears. That sound like anything Carl would do in 1967 ?

If there's another source I've missed I'd be delighted to see it.
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« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2014, 04:33:08 PM »

I'm not looking at my notes right now, but I believe very little if any of Friends was recorded at the home studio, indicating that this was a push by the band to get back to what had initially made them successful in terms of the recording arrangement.

Eh... you know what I'm going to say, dontcha ? Thirteen Friends sessions were held at the makeshift studio at 10452, seven were held at ID Sound (1556 N La Brea).

February:
?? - Friends session: 'Untitled #1'
?? - Friends session: You're As Cool As You Can Be
24 - Friends session: All I Wanna Do
29 - Friends session: Little Fish In A Brook (= Little Bird)
 
March:
  6 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning Darling track
13 - Friends session: Friends
18 - Friends session: 'Untitled #1' (=When A Man Needs A Woman)
20 - Friends session: Our Happy Home
22 - Friends session: Passing By
26 - Friends session: Even Steven (= Busy Doin' Nothin')/'New Song' track
28 - Friends session: Wake The World track [2 sessions]
29 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning track remake
30 - Friends session: Wake The World vocals [ID Sound]
31 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning vocals [ID Sound]
 
April:
  1 - Friends session: Meant For You [ID Sound]
  2 - Friends session: Anna Lee, The Healer [ID Sound]
  4 - Friends session: Transcendental Meditation [ID Sound]
11 - Friends session: Busy Doin' Nothin' vocals  [ID Sound] (Brian only)
12 - Friends session: Diamond Head [ID Sound] (Brian only)
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« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2014, 06:41:30 PM »

I'm not looking at my notes right now, but I believe very little if any of Friends was recorded at the home studio, indicating that this was a push by the band to get back to what had initially made them successful in terms of the recording arrangement.

Eh... you know what I'm going to say, dontcha ? Thirteen Friends sessions were held at the makeshift studio at 10452, seven were held at ID Sound (1556 N La Brea).

February:
?? - Friends session: 'Untitled #1'
?? - Friends session: You're As Cool As You Can Be
24 - Friends session: All I Wanna Do
29 - Friends session: Little Fish In A Brook (= Little Bird)
 
March:
  6 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning Darling track
13 - Friends session: Friends
18 - Friends session: 'Untitled #1' (=When A Man Needs A Woman)
20 - Friends session: Our Happy Home
22 - Friends session: Passing By
26 - Friends session: Even Steven (= Busy Doin' Nothin')/'New Song' track
28 - Friends session: Wake The World track [2 sessions]
29 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning track remake
30 - Friends session: Wake The World vocals [ID Sound]
31 - Friends session: Be Here In The Morning vocals [ID Sound]
 
April:
  1 - Friends session: Meant For You [ID Sound]
  2 - Friends session: Anna Lee, The Healer [ID Sound]
  4 - Friends session: Transcendental Meditation [ID Sound]
11 - Friends session: Busy Doin' Nothin' vocals  [ID Sound] (Brian only)
12 - Friends session: Diamond Head [ID Sound] (Brian only)

Yeah, I figured as soon as I posted that without checking first that you'd be here to correct me shortly!  LOL  Oh well, hopefully the rest of my points still stand.
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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2014, 08:59:25 PM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.

Andrew, I wanted to ask about this and maybe clarify it too: Are you suggesting this did not happen, or are you suggesting the details of what may or may not have been said or perceived have been apocryphal? I'm going on the words of at least two of the three Redwood members who have told basically the same story about what happened in the studio that day. Summing it up, they were there as Brian was producing their music, and after several Beach Boys showed up and talked to Brian, Brian was no longer working on their record. And the reasoning as told by those members was that Brian was going to be producing the Beach Boys current album project instead of Redwood. And that was it, apart from Redwood being offered a Brother single rather than the full album production.

I know that there were questions about what those Redwood members may have thought was said by the Beach Boys as they watched from the studio, but the fact that the scene happened in general is pretty much a known thing and has been reported by several involved parties who were in the studio that day.

I've never seen the fact that the scene happened in the studio challenged or considered apocryphal in some way, so I'm curious where that was coming from.

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.

It's late and I'm working from memory, but as far as I recall the only source for this event is Chuck Negron's autobiog. I also seem to recall TDN fans blowing holes in the chronology, and I definitely don't recall Danny Hutton ever saying word one about it in all the time since... and I think he would ! According to Negron, Mike & Carl turned up in the studio and as TDN watched (but could not hear), basically wore Brian down, reducing him to tears. That sound like anything Carl would do in 1967 ?

If there's another source I've missed I'd be delighted to see it.

Danny Hutton spoke directly about this situation with Redwood in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5zYjs96sZA&feature=youtu.be&list=PL35350BBCE486D776

Skip ahead to around 3 minutes into it, and Danny describes what happened with the Redwood tracks.

Another account from Danny appeared in Peter Carlin's "Catch A Wave", page 130, saying it specifically happened at Wally Heiders studio.

There are two out of three members of the group describing the same event, one more detailed than the other but both describing how Brian was producing them, then he was not after the Beach Boys stepped in.

And that's what I describing in the original post, I think we may have gotten more into the minute details of what Chuck had thought he heard or saw that day, when the bigger picture and more important point was the fact that Brian was producing Redwood, the BB's showed up and wanted him to work on their new album instead of Redwood, and Brian stopped working with Redwood. And the Beach Boys took with them two tracks he had been cutting for Redwood.
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« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2014, 01:05:08 AM »

Thanks for that.

The Carlin book: yes, Danny describes Mike & Carl appropriating the tape, but not reducing Brian to tears in view of TDN, and in the YouTube clip he's evidently unaware that Brian didn't write the song for him, rather he re-wrote a song that was several years old. Again, no mention of any studio confrontation as claimed by Negron.

There's no session info for the Redwood version of "Darlin'", but that's not a game-stopper. I'm not debating that the band hijacked Brian's work with Redwood - that's established fact - but I am seriously questioning that Mike & Carl browbeat Brian in the studio as Negron described. Hutton has been fiercely supportive of Brian down the years, and if he'd seen anything like that, we'd have heard about it long before now.
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« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2014, 05:52:00 AM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.

Andrew, I wanted to ask about this and maybe clarify it too: Are you suggesting this did not happen, or are you suggesting the details of what may or may not have been said or perceived have been apocryphal? I'm going on the words of at least two of the three Redwood members who have told basically the same story about what happened in the studio that day. Summing it up, they were there as Brian was producing their music, and after several Beach Boys showed up and talked to Brian, Brian was no longer working on their record. And the reasoning as told by those members was that Brian was going to be producing the Beach Boys current album project instead of Redwood. And that was it, apart from Redwood being offered a Brother single rather than the full album production.

I know that there were questions about what those Redwood members may have thought was said by the Beach Boys as they watched from the studio, but the fact that the scene happened in general is pretty much a known thing and has been reported by several involved parties who were in the studio that day.

I've never seen the fact that the scene happened in the studio challenged or considered apocryphal in some way, so I'm curious where that was coming from.

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.

It's late and I'm working from memory, but as far as I recall the only source for this event is Chuck Negron's autobiog. I also seem to recall TDN fans blowing holes in the chronology, and I definitely don't recall Danny Hutton ever saying word one about it in all the time since... and I think he would ! According to Negron, Mike & Carl turned up in the studio and as TDN watched (but could not hear), basically wore Brian down, reducing him to tears. That sound like anything Carl would do in 1967 ?

If there's another source I've missed I'd be delighted to see it.

Danny Hutton spoke directly about this situation with Redwood in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5zYjs96sZA&feature=youtu.be&list=PL35350BBCE486D776

Skip ahead to around 3 minutes into it, and Danny describes what happened with the Redwood tracks.

Another account from Danny appeared in Peter Carlin's "Catch A Wave", page 130, saying it specifically happened at Wally Heiders studio.

There are two out of three members of the group describing the same event, one more detailed than the other but both describing how Brian was producing them, then he was not after the Beach Boys stepped in.

And that's what I describing in the original post, I think we may have gotten more into the minute details of what Chuck had thought he heard or saw that day, when the bigger picture and more important point was the fact that Brian was producing Redwood, the BB's showed up and wanted him to work on their new album instead of Redwood, and Brian stopped working with Redwood. And the Beach Boys took with them two tracks he had been cutting for Redwood.

GuitarFool;  I can tell you that I heard this straight from the horses mouth ; what went down at Wally Heiders is what Negron has related in his book.   
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« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2014, 08:05:58 AM »

GuitarFool;  I can tell you that I heard this straight from the horses mouth ; what went down at Wally Heiders is what Negron has related in his book.   

So Brian finally got that horse into the studio.  Wink
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« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2014, 10:05:31 AM »

GuitarFool;  I can tell you that I heard this straight from the horses mouth ; what went down at Wally Heiders is what Negron has related in his book.   

So Brian finally got that horse into the studio.  Wink

 Grin
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« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2014, 11:40:17 AM »

There is that oft-told legend of several beach Boys going to the studio while Brian was cutting a track with Redwood, they pulled him aside, and when he came back he told Redwood he couldn't work on their album anymore because he had to do production work for The Beach Boys.

Oft-told... and generally regarded as apocryphal.

Andrew, I wanted to ask about this and maybe clarify it too: Are you suggesting this did not happen, or are you suggesting the details of what may or may not have been said or perceived have been apocryphal? I'm going on the words of at least two of the three Redwood members who have told basically the same story about what happened in the studio that day. Summing it up, they were there as Brian was producing their music, and after several Beach Boys showed up and talked to Brian, Brian was no longer working on their record. And the reasoning as told by those members was that Brian was going to be producing the Beach Boys current album project instead of Redwood. And that was it, apart from Redwood being offered a Brother single rather than the full album production.

I know that there were questions about what those Redwood members may have thought was said by the Beach Boys as they watched from the studio, but the fact that the scene happened in general is pretty much a known thing and has been reported by several involved parties who were in the studio that day.

I've never seen the fact that the scene happened in the studio challenged or considered apocryphal in some way, so I'm curious where that was coming from.

And it does go back to my bigger point that if Brian would no longer be producing a Redwood album so he could work on producing the Beach Boys' next album (which was Wild Honey), then not having him listed in a production role for that album doesn't add up with what played out. If he went to work producing Wild Honey after Redwood was told he wouldn't be producing them, that would mean he produced Wild Honey.

It's late and I'm working from memory, but as far as I recall the only source for this event is Chuck Negron's autobiog. I also seem to recall TDN fans blowing holes in the chronology, and I definitely don't recall Danny Hutton ever saying word one about it in all the time since... and I think he would ! According to Negron, Mike & Carl turned up in the studio and as TDN watched (but could not hear), basically wore Brian down, reducing him to tears. That sound like anything Carl would do in 1967 ?

If there's another source I've missed I'd be delighted to see it.

Danny Hutton spoke directly about this situation with Redwood in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5zYjs96sZA&feature=youtu.be&list=PL35350BBCE486D776

Skip ahead to around 3 minutes into it, and Danny describes what happened with the Redwood tracks.

Another account from Danny appeared in Peter Carlin's "Catch A Wave", page 130, saying it specifically happened at Wally Heiders studio.

There are two out of three members of the group describing the same event, one more detailed than the other but both describing how Brian was producing them, then he was not after the Beach Boys stepped in.

And that's what I describing in the original post, I think we may have gotten more into the minute details of what Chuck had thought he heard or saw that day, when the bigger picture and more important point was the fact that Brian was producing Redwood, the BB's showed up and wanted him to work on their new album instead of Redwood, and Brian stopped working with Redwood. And the Beach Boys took with them two tracks he had been cutting for Redwood.

GuitarFool;  I can tell you that I heard this straight from the horses mouth ; what went down at Wally Heiders is what Negron has related in his book.   

Thanks for the clarification, Ray: If confirmation came from the horse's mouth, I'll go with that!

I think the issue of Negron's telling of what happened might be narrowing the focus a bit too much into what exactly was said versus the bigger picture of what happened and what was the ultimate result, which as I outlined above was the Beach Boys taking the tapes Brian was producing with Redwood and effectively ending Brian's producing Redwood and him working instead with the BB's, along with those two specific BW productions for Redwood being given Beach Boys vocal tracks to replace Redwood's.

Danny Hutton in the YouTube interview link describes Mike being "pissed off" about Brian giving them a hit song, he describes the tracking of Darlin' starting at the house, with a "Motown bass player" and a guide vocal, then the tracks being stacked. And with "Time To Get Alone", Danny said "we did it on Selma, we didn't do it at the house".  Wally Heider had his studios at the intersection of Selma and Cahuenga. And in Carlin's book, Danny mentions Wally Heider's studio by name as the location.

With "Darlin'", and how Danny said it was inspired by him, I don't know how that could be disputed if you look at the construction of the song. According to Danny and other reports/accounts, Danny would call people "darlin" all the time, as in "hello darlin", whatever the case. If you put it together, Brian used that trademark saying of Danny's and built the hook of a song around it.

So they had the hook using the word "darlin", it became the chorus and hook of a new song idea which he built up for Redwood. The Sharon Marie song "Thinkin Bout You Baby" had the same verse melody and chords, but the chorus and the hook were radically different musically, the Sharon version going for more of a Spector type hook and chords as Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry might have written in 63-64. Totally different.

But in Darlin, Brian took what was a killer of a new hook and chorus, used it as the intro and the chorus to build a new song around, and fleshed it out by reusing that verse melody and chord progression from the Sharon Marie song. I don't see how reusing a verse section of a previous song he had written to flesh out and support a new chorus and hook for a new song idea would suggest Danny isn't being accurate or is misremembering something, when he described Brian writing "Darlin" based on something he was known to say often and which Brian picked up on and thought it would be a great hook for a song that Hutton and Redwood could record.
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