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Author Topic: Between 1967 and 1976 what albums/songs did Brian produce for the Beach Boys?  (Read 21811 times)
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« Reply #200 on: November 04, 2014, 05:59:16 PM »

Yeah, and what have we learned from this thread? That The Beach Boys are meanies, especially Mike and Carl, and Brian is an innocent puppy.

Just what any happy Beach Boys fan needs!

From here on out, anyone who defends Carl will be hailed a "Carl Marxist"



Carl is by far my favorite of the group but he's made some bad decisions just like everyone else on this planet has.

I'm just as bored with the Mike (meanie) and Brian (innocent puppy) debate that every thread turns into, but in this case it's pretty spot on. To go into a studio where Brian is working with a new band, get into a verbal debate in front of the band and leave with the tapes (one of which Brian worked on alone) is a total asshole move. In absolutely no way do the other Beach Boys have any ownership of TTGA and it shows a total lack of respect for Brian as far as I'm concerned.
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« Reply #201 on: November 04, 2014, 06:09:53 PM »

Yeah, and what have we learned from this thread? That The Beach Boys are meanies, especially Mike and Carl, and Brian is an innocent puppy.

Just what any happy Beach Boys fan needs!

From here on out, anyone who defends Carl will be hailed a "Carl Marxist"



Carl is by far my favorite of the group but he's made some bad decisions just like everyone else on this planet has.

I'm just as bored with the Mike (meanie) and Brian (innocent puppy) debate that every thread turns into, but in this case it's pretty spot on. To go into a studio where Brian is working with a new band, get into a verbal debate in front of the band and leave with the tapes (one of which Brian worked on alone) is a total asshole move. In absolutely no way do the other Beach Boys have any ownership of TTGA and it shows a total lack of respect for Brian as far as I'm concerned.

That is very well put, and all I can add is, none of us were there or are Beach Boys. We should always leave room open for things we do not know.
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« Reply #202 on: November 04, 2014, 06:16:59 PM »

Absolutely true. I'm just commenting on what information has been given in this thread. If Brian was apologizing about the incident to Danny decades later, that leads me to believe something went on.
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« Reply #203 on: November 04, 2014, 06:17:08 PM »

Yeah, and what have we learned from this thread? That The Beach Boys are meanies, especially Mike and Carl, and Brian is an innocent puppy.

Just what any happy Beach Boys fan needs!

From here on out, anyone who defends Carl will be hailed a "Carl Marxist"



Carl is by far my favorite of the group but he's made some bad decisions just like everyone else on this planet has.

I'm just as bored with the Mike (meanie) and Brian (innocent puppy) debate that every thread turns into, but in this case it's pretty spot on. To go into a studio where Brian is working with a new band, get into a verbal debate in front of the band and leave with the tapes (one of which Brian worked on alone) is a total asshole move. In absolutely no way do the other Beach Boys have any ownership of TTGA and it shows a total lack of respect for Brian as far as I'm concerned.

That is very well put, and all I can add is, none of us were there or are Beach Boys. We should always leave room open for things we do not know.


While I may seem opinionated about certain things, I think that's a very fair and appropriate assessment to make.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 06:18:05 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #204 on: November 04, 2014, 06:29:05 PM »


Well, if the tapes were no longer going to be used by Redwood, what else was going to happen to them?

So you're focusing on one song which was finished and released later while ignoring the other song related to the incident which has logical motivation behind it, for Mike, a least? .... Um OK.

Isn't Desper on record talking about The Beach Boys re-recording the backing tracks for TTGA?


I wasn't even going to reply to something like this, but do you think those of us reading this thread are idiots or something? The TTGA tapes were currently in use by Redwood in October 67, were being worked on by Brian and Redwood at Heider's, and were slated to be a Redwood project of some kind when Carl and Mike took the masters and ended the work being done by Brian for Redwood. Is that not clear enough?

And how am I ignoring the other song Darlin when I wrote at least two paragraphs or more about it and its construction back on page 2? For f***'s sake.

If it's at a point where common sense is being challenged like this in order to make a point or to further deviate from what the original issues are and were, we're seriously f***ed. And I mean that.

Man, do you really have to fly off the handle so easily?

And just because you say something or make a statement, it does not make it the final word for everyone else.

Time To Get Over Yourself should be a tune.

Name one thing I've written that isn't a fact which can be proven. Or give proof of your own in order to disprove something I've written here.

Otherwise, it's not about getting over myself, it's about you at least taking the time to read through the fucking thread before posting and arguing using facts that are simply wrong. The thing about the BB's studio and studio costs, the stuff about what would the tapes have been used for, those are simple facts that can be researched by anyone, and to post information you obviously don't know about instead of *asking* or confirming beforehand shows that you're more into arguing than you are getting the story straight.

I went out of my way to veer this away from Chuck Negron and the issue of Brian crying, whether it did happen or didn't happen that he cried or didn't cry, it means f***-all to me or my original posts. For you to bring it up again shows you have no clue about what was said earlier, or simply don't care. To say I'm ignoring the issue of Darlin after I wrote pretty extensively about it earlier is ignorant, that's the kindest word I can use.

Now you have Ray Lawlor posting something specifically about Brian and the song Time To Get Alone, and you totally ignore it. Not a peep from you, not even a question or a call for a clarification or acknowledgement of any kind. How obvious do you want to make yourself and your actions in this discussion? You're doing a grand job of it.

So let's see, you post completely wrong information, you argue and defend points that no one was raising and which some specifically said were not the issue, you continue to try to turn this into a case of people trying to badmouth Mike which was never the case from the beginning, you make snide comments about refusing to heed to me...who the f*** says that here and expects no one to notice?

I'm speaking as myself here. If you want to sh*t on threads, argue about nothing, ignore someone answering the very questions you're raising because you don't like the answers, and basically do what you're doing here, have at it. And expect to get this same kind of reaction in return. You don't post here like everyone is too dumb to see what's going on, and you don't patronize someone, me or anyone else, without getting a push back.

You don't like the answers, or you think they're wrong? Find something factual to back up whatever position you're advocating, put it on the table, and discuss it rationally and with common sense. In other words, either sh*t or get off the pot. I'm not going to sit back and watch you base arguments on completely false information or try to paint the discussion in some way you can discredit and tear down because you don't like the facts.

Last time: You made a specific charge, now it's your turn to put up some information to prove that something I've written in this thread is incorrect or can be shown to be false. That is a more than simple request.

And if you instead choose to try to discredit me, patronize me, make it seem like my "information" which I've written here is suspect or less than truthful as I've shown yours to be with basic information any fan has access to, consider spending that time reading up on the history and the details before you do.

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« Reply #205 on: November 04, 2014, 06:50:32 PM »

AAAAAAAARGGGGG!

Once again, all someone has to do is disagree with you and they end up in your crazed kangaroo court.

This is a damn discussion board, not a police report.

And maybe If you weren't so quick to fly off into cussing fits it would be less entertaining. It is also quite immature to dismiss someone outright and the entirety of their postings down to their basic intelligence because they disagree with you.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 07:00:17 PM by Pinder Goes To Kokomo » Logged
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« Reply #206 on: November 04, 2014, 08:12:08 PM »

To be frank, if someone had posted

Quote
Time To Get Over Yourself should be a tune.

in response to me, I'd react the same way. Also...

Quote
And maybe If you weren't so quick to fly off into cussing fits it would be less entertaining.

If I understand your post correctly, you're finding this entertaining ?! Is that why you posted what you did without addressing either of these valid points

Quote
To say I'm ignoring the issue of Darlin after I wrote pretty extensively about it earlier is ignorant, that's the kindest word I can use.

Quote
Now you have Ray Lawlor posting something specifically about Brian and the song Time To Get Alone, and you totally ignore it. Not a peep from you, not even a question or a call for a clarification or acknowledgement of any kind. How obvious do you want to make yourself and your actions in this discussion? You're doing a grand job of it.
?

I know this is 'entertaining' to you (if that's not what you meant by that, then I apologize) , but you posting this
Quote
It is also quite immature to dismiss someone outright and the entirety of their postings down to their basic intelligence because they disagree with you.
is a bit rich considering that's what you've been doing in your responses!

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but your last several posts have come across as baiting. GhostyTMRS had a VERY valid point with

Quote
I was almost waiting for that to happen when it was mentioned in another thread that Carl didn't want to tour Pet Sounds live in the 90's with Brian because he thought Brian would embarrass himself. I thought that was kind of funny because Brian wound up touring Pet Sounds to great acclaim and by no means embarrassed himself or anyone else. Can you imagine what the reaction would've been if Mike had said that? HOLY CRAP! lol

There's a tendency among fans to portray Carl as this Christ-like figure born without sin and waving his hand over the seas and calming them...but hey, the guy was human like everyone else and made some bad judgment calls here and there. His batting average was pretty good regardless. "Time To Get Alone" is another good one. It's sad that TTGA is, according to Ray, still a big issue for Brian because it's easily one of the greatest post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys moments IMO with a lead vocal by Carl that could melt in your mouth. Not having it in their catalog would be like saying the Mona Lisa is too good for the Louvre.

and you responded with
Quote
Yeah, and what have we learned from this thread? That The Beach Boys are meanies, especially Mike and Carl, and Brian is an innocent puppy.

Just what any happy Beach Boys fan needs!

From here on out, anyone who defends Carl will be hailed a "Carl Marxist"

What is up with the sarcasm there? Nothing Ghosty posted deserved that response. You completely ignored what he was posting and instead made a snide joke about it, yet you're accusing GF of being immature and dismissing a post outright because you disagree with it. Pot, kettle, black.

For God's sake, the infighting on this board has long passed the point of being ludicrous, but what really bothers me now is that it's no longer debating, but rather turning people's words around and selective reading. And it's not limited to the 'Brian is God, Mike is the devil' side, or vice versa. I seriously wonder how many people here are actually fans of the band that this board was created ostensibly to discuss, or rather just enjoy being dicks to each other. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it.  This place has become as bad as any political forum I'm ever been on, and just as full of delusional hostility.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:13:12 PM by ♩♬ Billy C ♯♫♩ » Logged

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« Reply #207 on: November 04, 2014, 09:03:30 PM »

To be frank, if someone had posted

Quote
Time To Get Over Yourself should be a tune.

in response to me, I'd react the same way. Also...

Quote
And maybe If you weren't so quick to fly off into cussing fits it would be less entertaining.

If I understand your post correctly, you're finding this entertaining ?! Is that why you posted what you did without addressing either of these valid points

Quote
To say I'm ignoring the issue of Darlin after I wrote pretty extensively about it earlier is ignorant, that's the kindest word I can use.

Quote
Now you have Ray Lawlor posting something specifically about Brian and the song Time To Get Alone, and you totally ignore it. Not a peep from you, not even a question or a call for a clarification or acknowledgement of any kind. How obvious do you want to make yourself and your actions in this discussion? You're doing a grand job of it.
?

I know this is 'entertaining' to you (if that's not what you meant by that, then I apologize) , but you posting this
Quote
It is also quite immature to dismiss someone outright and the entirety of their postings down to their basic intelligence because they disagree with you.
is a bit rich considering that's what you've been doing in your responses!

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but your last several posts have come across as baiting. GhostyTMRS had a VERY valid point with

Quote
I was almost waiting for that to happen when it was mentioned in another thread that Carl didn't want to tour Pet Sounds live in the 90's with Brian because he thought Brian would embarrass himself. I thought that was kind of funny because Brian wound up touring Pet Sounds to great acclaim and by no means embarrassed himself or anyone else. Can you imagine what the reaction would've been if Mike had said that? HOLY CRAP! lol

There's a tendency among fans to portray Carl as this Christ-like figure born without sin and waving his hand over the seas and calming them...but hey, the guy was human like everyone else and made some bad judgment calls here and there. His batting average was pretty good regardless. "Time To Get Alone" is another good one. It's sad that TTGA is, according to Ray, still a big issue for Brian because it's easily one of the greatest post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys moments IMO with a lead vocal by Carl that could melt in your mouth. Not having it in their catalog would be like saying the Mona Lisa is too good for the Louvre.

and you responded with
Quote
Yeah, and what have we learned from this thread? That The Beach Boys are meanies, especially Mike and Carl, and Brian is an innocent puppy.

Just what any happy Beach Boys fan needs!

From here on out, anyone who defends Carl will be hailed a "Carl Marxist"

What is up with the sarcasm there? Nothing Ghosty posted deserved that response. You completely ignored what he was posting and instead made a snide joke about it, yet you're accusing GF of being immature and dismissing a post outright because you disagree with it. Pot, kettle, black.

For God's sake, the infighting on this board has long passed the point of being ludicrous, but what really bothers me now is that it's no longer debating, but rather turning people's words around and selective reading. And it's not limited to the 'Brian is God, Mike is the devil' side, or vice versa. I seriously wonder how many people here are actually fans of the band that this board was created ostensibly to discuss, or rather just enjoy being dicks to each other. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it.  This place has become as bad as any political forum I'm ever been on, and just as full of delusional hostility.

I was just adding to what Ghosty posted .... Eeek.

I know perfecty well that it's politically correct to just single me out, but please take a look a Guitarfool's responses if you care to know what might motivate a "baiting" response... And, no, I dont find this the least bit entertaining. And some folk don't tend to take well to having cussing fits directed at them... If cussing fits are not looked at as at all uncool, but any less then laudatory responses to them ARE seen as uncool.... well, I don't quite know what to make of that.

And again, these threads are not court depositions. I do not owe Guitarfool or anyone an answer to any particular question that is demanded of me. I have tried to present my views with logical parameters. A good 70% of this board is speculation and it is not fair to accuse someone of being basically worthless when they do not cough up a hard fact to support musings on the emotional state or motivations of these Beach-Type-People.


« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 09:22:34 PM by Pinder Goes To Kokomo » Logged
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« Reply #208 on: November 04, 2014, 10:22:40 PM »

I'm not singling you out...i don't care about 'political correctness' in the least, and you should know by now more often than not we've agreed on things in the past.  I *have* read the posts in this thread, and the thing is..the issue wasnt between you and GF at first (and there a couple of posts by others that crossed the line that will be addressed individually ) but then coming in and telling him to get over himself,  when he rightly became irritated when being questioned over something confirmed by Ray...well, i do have an issue with that. Actually,  what really grinds my gears, (and this is NOT directed at you) is the seemingly compulsive need by some members on this board to immediately try to discredit anything posted by an insider like Ray or Jon, and in many cases are doing it merely to be contrary.

And if you didn't find it entertaining,  then why did you say that? Maybe it wasn't your intent, but it came across as you being entertained because someone was getting upset. ..it came across as borderline bullying. Again, that may not have been your intent, but if it was, then i have a major issue with that. 

I may have missed it, but where did anybody call anyone worthless? I've read through this thread three times since i got home , and i have not seen that. If i missed,  please point me in the right direction,  and i will handle that.

In any case...i have several other posts i need to address with certain posters, and i need to go to work in the morning,  but I'm going to leave with this...directed towards everybody... it's one thing to disagree , but i really wish everyone would be more respectful to each other, and if facts come out that proves you wrong, accept it. We're all wrong at times. It's ok. And, really, so many things over the years have been disproven, or new things have been recently brought to light... it happens. 
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« Reply #209 on: November 04, 2014, 10:42:10 PM »

Well put Billy.

Yeah, the word "entertaining" was misused and was intended to be part of a elaborate point that I didn't follow through with. My bad on that one.

It's a bit concerning that the reaction to something is a big deal but what prompted that reaction is not discussed..... I honestly don't get it.

PM me it you wish. This sort of thing need not be dragged out in public.
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« Reply #210 on: November 04, 2014, 10:53:58 PM »

Apologies for introducing the hare of The Negron Incident into this thread. In an attempt to lay it, here is exactly what he claims, in his book:

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"

Salient points:

1 - he claims Alan was there too. Hutton doesn't mention him in any interview he's given.

2 - although he admits they couldn't hear through the booth window, nonetheless he tells us what he thought was being said.

3 - he claims Brian was weeping. Hutton has never said a word about this. In fact, and as ever I stand to be corrected, I don't believe Hutton ever claimed to witness this event but rather was told by Mike what was happening. If this is so (with the preceding caveat), then Negron claiming Danny also witnessed Brian being "scolded and punished" is, at best, an error.

4 - as has recently and pertinently been pointed out, at that time the original incarnation of Brother Records was still (tentatively) in existence and other artists begin considered, thus Brian's tearful speech goes 180 degrees against the company ethos.

5 - surely Carl, of all people, would have said to Redwood, "would you mind leaving the studio for a few minutes, we need to talk with Brian in private".

6 - he contradicts himself: "It was a cruel and pathetic scene" but yet "The conversation appeared quiet and calm"... "We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us". Or maybe they wouldn't.

Apologies also for reading the original posting and assuming everyone thought the same way I did, that is "oh yeah, that's where Chuck claims they reduced Brian to tears, never happened", but only posting the last part: my entire and absolute bad. That this claim appears first in Negron's book and not at any time during the intervening 30-odd years is surely significant.

Now... what about "Sunflower Maiden" ?

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« Reply #211 on: November 04, 2014, 11:05:59 PM »

Apologies for introducing the hare of The Negron Incident into this thread. In an attempt to lay it, here is exactly what he claims, in his book:

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"

Salient points:

1 - he claims Alan was there too. Hutton doesn't mention him in any interview he's given.

2 - although he admits they couldn't hear through the booth window, nonetheless he tells us what he thought was being said.

3 - he claims Brian was weeping. Hutton has never said a word about this. In fact, and as ever I stand to be corrected, I don't believe Hutton ever claimed to witness this event but rather was told by Mike what was happening. If this is so (with the preceding caveat), then Negron claiming Danny also witnessed Brian being "scolded and punished" is, at best, an error.

4 - as has recently and pertinently been pointed out, at that time the original incarnation of Brother Records was still (tentatively) in existence and other artists begin considered, thus Brian's tearful speech goes 180 degrees against the company ethos.

5 - surely Carl, of all people, would have said to Redwood, "would you mind leaving the studio for a few minutes, we need to talk with Brian in private".

6 - he contradicts himself: "It was a cruel and pathetic scene" but yet "The conversation appeared quiet and calm"... "We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us". Or maybe they wouldn't.

Apologies also for reading the original posting and assuming everyone thought the same way I did, that is "oh yeah, that's where Chuck claims they reduced Brian to tears, never happened", but only posting the last part: my entire and absolute bad. That this claim appears first in Negron's book and not at any time during the intervening 30-odd years is surely significant.

Now... what about "Sunflower Maiden" ?



Since the book, has anyone ever followed up with Negron or had a chance to ask him any questions in person about said incident? 
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« Reply #212 on: November 04, 2014, 11:14:31 PM »

Honestly ? I don't think anyone except us - that is, here on this forum, not the BB fan world at large - really cares that much... and I'd think it highly unlikely that he'd say "yeah, sorry, I kinda improved on that, actually I didn't see it at all". But, as I said very recently in a slightly different context, can't hurt to try.
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« Reply #213 on: November 05, 2014, 06:07:43 AM »

Apologies for introducing the hare of The Negron Incident into this thread. In an attempt to lay it, here is exactly what he claims, in his book:

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"

Salient points:

1 - he claims Alan was there too. Hutton doesn't mention him in any interview he's given.

2 - although he admits they couldn't hear through the booth window, nonetheless he tells us what he thought was being said.

3 - he claims Brian was weeping. Hutton has never said a word about this. In fact, and as ever I stand to be corrected, I don't believe Hutton ever claimed to witness this event but rather was told by Mike what was happening. If this is so (with the preceding caveat), then Negron claiming Danny also witnessed Brian being "scolded and punished" is, at best, an error.

4 - as has recently and pertinently been pointed out, at that time the original incarnation of Brother Records was still (tentatively) in existence and other artists begin considered, thus Brian's tearful speech goes 180 degrees against the company ethos.

5 - surely Carl, of all people, would have said to Redwood, "would you mind leaving the studio for a few minutes, we need to talk with Brian in private".

6 - he contradicts himself: "It was a cruel and pathetic scene" but yet "The conversation appeared quiet and calm"... "We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us". Or maybe they wouldn't.

Apologies also for reading the original posting and assuming everyone thought the same way I did, that is "oh yeah, that's where Chuck claims they reduced Brian to tears, never happened", but only posting the last part: my entire and absolute bad. That this claim appears first in Negron's book and not at any time during the intervening 30-odd years is surely significant.

Now... what about "Sunflower Maiden" ?



Thank you for posting the actual quote from Negron.  While there's certainly speculation in it (especially the "good lip-reader" quote, which I can understand your objection to), I think that some of your other complaints here amount to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  Especially your suggestion that Negron somehow contradicts himself with "It was a cruel and pathetic scene" versus "The conversation appeared quiet and calm".  Surely anyone with any experience of passive-aggressive behaviour can confirm that it's possible to be quiet, calm, cruel and pathetic all at the same time?

(If you don't believe me, PM me your home address and I'll come round and be quietly cruel to you for an afternoon.)
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #214 on: November 05, 2014, 02:03:51 PM »

Devil's advocate question again:

What exactly is the nature of the "The Beach Boys left with the tapes" idea? .... I don't see it mentioned in the quotes in question.

We know the Boys did not rush right into the studio and record their vocals on the song, since we know they finished the song almost a full year later in October 68.

My point is: intense or calm brow beating or not: if Brian agreed, under whatever circumstances, to allow The Beach Boys to do the song, then how was it that they had no right to the tapes for a song Brian written and had produced the backing tracks for? Generally if you're a band working with a Producer on a song that Producer wrote and Produced the tracks for, you do not own either the tracks/tapes or the song... (they were signed to Dunhil records at that point, right? Did Dunhil have any stake in these tapes?) ..... I'm not saying everyone was nice and warm n fuzzy about it, but what was supposed to happen to the tapes if no one else was going to use them? .... At least the Beach Boys didn't rush into the studio and simply lay Carl's lead vocals over Redwood's, and they did attempt to re-record the backing tracks themselves ..... This was a year later than the incident in question. By that time it was probably just another song laying around for potential use, in the busy, frazzled minds of rock stars in a pinch and on a tough schedule..... So, question is: did Mike or Carl or Al actually leave the studio that day in October 67 with the tapes in their hand, and if so, why wait a full year to get around to it with the song?  Or does "The Beach Boys took the tapes" simply mean that they eventually used the backing tracks for their own version of the song? ..... There is a difference there..... The only mention of Carl and Mike taking the tapes comes in-between Danny Hutton quotes in "Catch A Wave" and is the author's words, not a quote ..... I'm not saying it didn't happen that way, but as is, there is room for question.

I'm simply asking these question for a more full understanding of events ..... I love The Beach Boys and dislike being quick to paint anyone in ANY particular light.

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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #215 on: May 31, 2017, 10:20:56 AM »

In the press release for the Sunshine Tomorrow 2-CD set, Brian now says he produced Smiley Smile.
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NateRuvin
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« Reply #216 on: May 31, 2017, 11:25:05 AM »

Yeah, I have no doubt that Brian was still largely in charge for the Smiley Smile.
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