Smiley Smile done right?

[MugginsXO]

I gotta admit I'm quite intrigued by the polarization over Smiley....on this board (I say on this board because the outside world doesn't even know what a Smiley Smile is....and probably never will).  The folks who are big fans of Smiley seem to be at odds with the actual SMiLE material.  "Don't mess with my Smiley!"  Wow, take it easy, man!  Nobody's going to confiscate your beloved.....er, whatever it is!

If Smiley Smile was such a statement, how come nobody in '67 got it?  C'mon!  '67, man!  They got Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Sgt. Pepper, and uh....Incense and Peppermints!  And a bunch of other stuff.  

You are confusing a few things here. Seeing a piece of work as intentional - as opposed to say an album of out takes put out by a label as with Dylan's A Fool Such As I -on the part of an artist does not require in any scenario an audience understanding or appreciating it. It also doesn't require the work to be good. That Smiley Smile is not the greatest thing of the 1960s and the realisation of every high ambition of Brian Wilson is entirely irrelevant as to its legitimacy as the literal end result of the song-writing, recording and production work undertaken during the Smile sessions.

Is it Smile? No. Smile in the sense of how most people mean it doesn't exist and can't exist, except as a rather brilliant post-modern commentary on the concepts imagined at one point and collecting together the songs that were recorded. And of course the mythology behind the album and what it would have meant and how it would have changed the world and so on. Smiley Smile is however quite clearly how many of the central songs written and conceived during that time were completed and more importantly released to the public.

In the mind of many Smile myth obsessives the possibility of Brian Wilson making a decision to take this project - the collection of songs that would form the album - and change the direction and change their sound can ONLY happen if it coincides with what they value. That one does not understand or value something Brian Wilson created does not prove Brian Wilson didn't mean it, and that really he meant to release the versions the listener happens to value most. A lot of things happen during such intense work. Consider how Terrance Malick completely altered the narrative and focus of The Thin Red Line by almost entirely removing Adrian Brody who was initially intended to be the LEAD character. Whether you want to prefer the possible version of that movie is your preference but The Thin Red Line as released is the only one that Terrence Malick released and the only one he wanted to release.

The initial Smile concept was cancelled or altered or abandoned or whatever. I don't really care what process he went through. If you want to hear how Brian Wilson completed Heroes & Villains, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vegetables for public consumption you listen to Smiley Smile. (This is one clear reason why it is very silly that the Smile sessions box did not take these into account on the session side of things.) I see the appeal of the Smile mix and the music from that time. And the 2004 Smile is amazing, as is the box set version. That music deserved to be released. It is great! But it is foolish I think to be under the illusion that some Dominic Priore cassette or any of the countless fan mixes are somehow a more legitimate statement or closer to Brian Wilson's vision for these songs. Mash up Heroes & Villains sections all you like, but personally I care more about the actual version made and released by the artist in 1967. Like it or not, that is the only genuine article and the closest to the truth you are ever going to get.

[VanDykeParksAndRec]

Maybe after this you can make a Pet Sounds done right......

[TheLazenby]

Oh come on, I can't be the only one who considers the single/SS edit of "Heroes and Villains" to be butchery.

In my opinion at least, the Cantina section should never have been removed.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

If you want to hear how Brian Wilson completed Heroes & Villains, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vegetables for public consumption you listen to Smiley Smile.

I see your point but I don't entirely agree. The Smiley Smile versions are great but I wouldn't necessarily say that's how Brian "completed" those songs. Those songs were re-made entirely because the project had changed.  Brian was no longer making Smile - he was making something else. This is why nobody calls Smiley Smile the completion of Smile.

There are early versions of, say, Beatles songs before they were re-made. And Your Bird Can Sing for example was, largely re-arranged after being officially recorded in the studio. But I wouldn't call the re-arrangement a "completion."

There are artist who re-record already released tunes, like say, Little Richard. But those re-recordings are not a completion of earlier released versions and they're almost always viewed as being the inauthentic version.

Your example of The Thin Red Line doesn't quite work for me. Yes, Terrence Malick substantially edited the movie. What he did not do was re-shoot the entire film and give it a different title, like The Thinner Red Line.

So I do think that there are nuances to this that you might be overlooking.

[MugginsXO]

If you want to hear how Brian Wilson completed Heroes & Villains, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vegetables for public consumption you listen to Smiley Smile.

I see your point but I don't entirely agree. The Smiley Smile versions are great but I wouldn't necessarily say that's how Brian "completed" those songs. Those songs were re-made entirely because the project had changed.  Brian was no longer making Smile - he was making something else. This is why nobody calls Smiley Smile the completion of Smile.

There are early versions of, say, Beatles songs before they were re-made. And Your Bird Can Sing for example was, largely re-arranged after being officially recorded in the studio. But I wouldn't call the re-arrangement a "completion."

There are artist who re-record already released tunes, like say, Little Richard. But those re-recordings are not a completion of earlier released versions and they're almost always viewed as being the inauthentic version.

Your example of The Thin Red Line doesn't quite work for me. Yes, Terrence Malick substantially edited the movie. What he did not do was re-shoot the entire film and give it a different title, like The Thinner Red Line.

So I do think that there are nuances to this that you might be overlooking.

I think it's fair enough to say that when you record a song, mix it and release it, it can be considered a finished song. When it stops changing and ends up in a final released form, it can be considered a finished song. Seeing as there were no previous versions of these songs released on any album AND several conflicting versions of the same songs, I don't think the cover analogy works.

I think it would be absolutely possible for a film to be wholly or partially reshot and still be considered the same film. Anchorman is one that was nearly completely different before being rewritten and reshot with different actors. Is that the real Anchorman? Or the one that was decided against because of a series of practical and artistic decisions? If it was called Anchoryman Anchorman or otherwise re-titled is it the same thing or an entirely new, inauthentic version of the original?

The name change is an important point. Is there any way that Brian Wilson could have put ostensibly less good versions of these songs on an album called Smile? Smile as it is discussed is seen as the best thing that could have possibly happened. Smile cannot be considered as anything less than a grand and epic, perfect thing. There is zero potential that the Smile in people's heads could ever have turned out less than great. I think it is entirely possible that Brian Wilson could and did consider the songs on Smiley Smile as the end of his tinkering. If the name was a case of Brian deflecting expected criticism and from the impossibility of what he wanted to do, it further cements Smiley Smile as the real world, actual result of the Smile Sessions. The concept changed and so did the songs. That so many feel this is not the desired result of that work and simply not good enough is again a distraction. It is quite arbitrary to think that more instruments, more production and more words make one thing more finished or more complete. It involves a value judgement that has a whole mess of problems that can't adequately address what makes this inauthentic and that a big stinking pile of credibility.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

If you want to hear how Brian Wilson completed Heroes & Villains, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vegetables for public consumption you listen to Smiley Smile.

I see your point but I don't entirely agree. The Smiley Smile versions are great but I wouldn't necessarily say that's how Brian "completed" those songs. Those songs were re-made entirely because the project had changed.  Brian was no longer making Smile - he was making something else. This is why nobody calls Smiley Smile the completion of Smile.

There are early versions of, say, Beatles songs before they were re-made. And Your Bird Can Sing for example was, largely re-arranged after being officially recorded in the studio. But I wouldn't call the re-arrangement a "completion."

There are artist who re-record already released tunes, like say, Little Richard. But those re-recordings are not a completion of earlier released versions and they're almost always viewed as being the inauthentic version.

Your example of The Thin Red Line doesn't quite work for me. Yes, Terrence Malick substantially edited the movie. What he did not do was re-shoot the entire film and give it a different title, like The Thinner Red Line.

So I do think that there are nuances to this that you might be overlooking.

I think it's fair enough to say that when you record a song, mix it and release it, it can be considered a finished song.

As do I. Like I said, though, it's a nuanced issue.

When it stops changing and ends up in a final released form, it can be considered a finished song. Seeing as there were no previous versions of these songs released on any album AND several conflicting versions of the same songs, I don't think the cover analogy works.

I never made a "cover analogy".

I think it would be absolutely possible for a film to be wholly or partially reshot and still be considered the same film.

As do I. Just as I think it would be absolutely possible for a filmmaker to use elements of a scrapped film to make an entirely new film.

Is that the real Anchorman? Or the one that was decided against because of a series of practical and artistic decisions? If it was called Anchoryman Anchorman or otherwise re-titled is it the same thing or an entirely new, inauthentic version of the original?

It is entirely new, yes, in the sense that it is not the same as the old. Authenticity is another matter and nowhere have I argued that the Smiley Smile tracks are inauthentic. I just don't agree that the songs on the album are the completed versions of the Smile-era songs.

The name change is an important point. Is there any way that Brian Wilson could have put ostensibly less good versions of these songs on an album called Smile? Smile as it is discussed is seen as the best thing that could have possibly happened. Smile cannot be considered as anything less than a grand and epic, perfect thing. There is zero potential that the Smile in people's heads could ever have turned out less than great.

This seems like a lot of conjecture.

I think it is entirely possible that Brian Wilson could and did consider the songs on Smiley Smile as the end of his tinkering.

He wasn't "tinkering" - he re-made the songs entirely in what was a very marked transition from studio sessions for one album to studio sessions for another album. And is there any evidence for what you are saying is "entirely possible?"

If the name was a case of Brian deflecting expected criticism and from the impossibility of what he wanted to do, it further cements Smiley Smile as the real world, actual result of the Smile Sessions. The concept changed and so did the songs.

Well, in that sense, then Pet Sounds is the finished version of Summer Days Summer Nights.

That so many feel this is not the desired result of that work and simply not good enough is again a distraction. It is quite arbitrary to think that more instruments, more production and more words make one thing more finished or more complete. It involves a value judgement that has a whole mess of problems that can't adequately address what makes this inauthentic and that a big stinking pile of credibility.

Again, this has nothing to do with anything I've said.

[Steve Latshaw]

<<I think it's fair enough to say that when you record a song, mix it and release it, it can be considered a finished song. When it stops changing and ends up in a final released form, it can be considered a finished song. Seeing as there were no previous versions of these songs released on any album AND several conflicting versions of the same songs, I don't think the cover analogy works. >>

An interesting premise, but at odds with history.  Fact of the matter is, everyone in the Beach Boys organization, including the five principals, said they scrapped Smile.  Smiley Smile was the "bunt," as Carl put it... taking a group of songs recorded for another, completely project, and re-recording them for a new one.  Music history is filled with examples of projects written and/or recorded for projects that were never completed.  I think the Lifehouse/Who's Next analogy is perfect.

As for the argument that the first version released is the final version... Be True to Your School... Fun Fun Fun... Help Me Rhonda... Cottonfields... Susie Cincinnati... Cool Cool Water... California Saga: California... Rock & Roll Music... It's OK...Here Comes the Night... School Days... California Dreamin'... Summer in Paradise... just a few Beach Boys examples...

[punkinhead]

Honestly, I think there's a few other albums that need a "done right" before Smiley Smile, such as MIU, Keepin the Summer Alive or some might even suggest So Tough.

[TMinthePM]

Well, these theological disputations are beyond the comprehension of this simple fella.

But for those of you Smilers out there who might be interested, I repeat - you can readily assemble an extended Smiley Smile from various tracks that lay ready to hand.

Enjoy.

[brother john]

Smiley Smile was done right. It's one of the most perfect little albums they ever made. To try to 'improve' it is to completely miss the point of the record, which revels in its imperfections and invites us to do likewise. Oh, and She's Goin' Bald is way more fun than He Gives Speeches, so why swap 'em over?

Seconded.

[TheLazenby]

'Cause I can't stand "She's Goin' Bald"? :-P

Anyway, irregardless of what the haters think, this is my 'new' Smiley Smile...

SIDE ONE
01) Heroes and Villains, Part 1
02) Heroes and Villains, Part 2  (note - these aren't the Smile Sessions single versions exactly, because I don't 100% agree with their editing choices; the ending of Part 2 is a mess!!)
03) Vega-Tables  (Smile Sessions sans segue)
04) Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
05) He Gives Speeches
06) I Love To Say Da-Da

SIDE TWO
01) Good Vibrations  (with 'hum-be-dum's)
02) With Me Tonight  (Smile Sessions)
03) Wind Chimes  (Smile Sessions sans segue)
04) Cabin Essence  (Smile Sessions)
05) Wonderful  (Smile Sessions)
06) You're Welcome

[TheLazenby]

Tee hee.

[rab2591]

'Cause I can't stand "She's Goin' Bald"? :-P

Anyway, irregardless of what the haters think, this is my 'new' Smiley Smile...

SIDE ONE
01) Heroes and Villains, Part 1
02) Heroes and Villains, Part 2  (note - these aren't the Smile Sessions single versions exactly, because I don't 100% agree with their editing choices; the ending of Part 2 is a mess!!)
03) Vega-Tables  (Smile Sessions sans segue)
04) Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
05) He Gives Speeches
06) I Love To Say Da-Da

SIDE TWO
01) Good Vibrations  (with 'hum-be-dum's)
02) With Me Tonight  (Smile Sessions)
03) Wind Chimes  (Smile Sessions sans segue)
04) Cabin Essence  (Smile Sessions)
05) Wonderful  (Smile Sessions)
06) You're Welcome

I really like this track listing. Even for a regular Smile mix....though I'd have to add Surf's Up and CIFOTM somewhere.

Count me in as someone who dislikes She's Going Bald as well....it just gives me bad vibes, I don't find it fun at all. But to each their own.

[Mikie]

Smiley Smile was done right. It's one of the most perfect little albums they ever made. To try to 'improve' it is to completely miss the point of the record, which revels in its imperfections and invites us to do likewise. Oh, and She's Goin' Bald is way more fun than He Gives Speeches, so why swap 'em over?

Seconded.

Thirded.

[TheLazenby]

Why not step into the Smiley Smile Shop?

[donald]

Stepped out onto the deck behind my house last week and heard Smiley Smile playing.  My 23 year old daughter had was listening on her I phone to a subscriber website playing the album.  She could have been listening to  the Brian SMILE or the SMILE box which are just inside and ready to pop into the player.  She seems to actually prefer Smiley Smile.    I think she likes it because its more light hearted and fun than SMiLE.  She also likes the elephant 6 stuff.
Go figure.

[TheLazenby]

I replaced "I Love To Say Da Da" in my line-up with "Cool Cool Water" - the June '67 version, rather than the more familiar version in the SMiLE box (which was recorded after 'Smiley Smile' actually came out).

It brings the side to a much more satisfying close.

[sockittome]

Maybe after this you can make a Pet Sounds done right......

Already done.  It's in stereo now.   

[TheLazenby]

I moved "Heroes and Villains Part 2" to the end of side one.  I don't necessarily like this (it spoils the Smiley Smile flow of "side ending watery song, then Good Vibrations") but eight minutes of H&V right at the start seems like overkill.

Besides, the "Gee" intro after "Cool Cool Water" just... works.

[Micha]

Oh come on, I can't be the only one who considers the single/SS edit of "Heroes and Villains" to be butchery.

Define "butchery". I can go as far as claiming that wasn't the best possible version by a long stretch...

[The Shift]

It can only be considered butchery with the benefit of hindsight. Way back, it was the only version in the public domain, and therefore definitive. For many years. But for the twofers, GV30 and a cew boots etc, we'd maybe never have heard different.

[TheLazenby]

How about this?  "Smiley Smile done right.... if it were held off until 1971." :-P

SIDE ONE
01) Our Prayer  [20/20 version]
02) Heroes and Villains  [stereo Smiley version]
03) Cabinessence  [20/20 version]
04) Wonderful  [stereo Smiley version]
05) Little Bird
06) Surf's Up  [Surf's Up version]

SIDE TWO
01) Vega-Tables  [stereo Smiley version]
02) Mama Says  [stereo bootleg version]
03) Wind Chimes  [stereo Smiley version]
04) Fall Breaks And Back To Winter  [stereo version]
05) Cool Cool Water  [Sunflower version]
06) Good Vibrations  [stereo Smiley version]

Try it, it works great!

[Disney Boy (1985)]

All these 'Smile/Smiley Smile/whatever other albums or tracks spring to mind'-hybrids that people are posting up sound like incoherent messes to me.

Fire (in the middle of side one?), followed by He Gives Speeches, then Da-Da. I mean... huh?
 
But each to their own...

[TheLazenby]

The cover of my new alternate universe idea!

[sockittome]

Smiley-Wind Chimes and Wonderful in '71???

Now yer just being silly!