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Author Topic: Jameson vs. Kaye-who was the hottest session bassist?  (Read 10880 times)
Howdy Doody
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« on: January 01, 2006, 09:10:07 AM »

 I am a big fan of Carol Kaye's bass playing on so many of her brilliant hot vintage sessions.  But recently I've been wondering just who has been more of a pioneering  individual stylist in the shaping of pop culture and bass technique Carol Kaye or James Jameson? Who has had the greater cultural impact?  I have been listening to some of Marvin Gaye's music that Jameson performed on(and  I feel he should have got a tad more creative credit for) especially "What's going on," and quite frankly I feel he has had more of an impact on the sound of modern-era bass and it's applications in the recording studio.  Don't get me wrong however Carol Kaye is, and always will be remembered fondly.  Ray Pohlman as well was a fine musician IMO.  What is your favorite songs Carol Kaye performed on? As well if you dig Jameson what songs are your favorites of his? Pet Sounds is a given for Carol as some of her best contributions to BW's legacy.  I love most of Carol's more well-known sessions but a discussion of any and all bass meisters would be a fun trip for fans of the beautiful BASS guitar.  I think BW told Carol exactly what to play though she acts like BW begrudged he of creative credit.
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HighOnLife
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 09:15:31 AM »

Jamerson, to me.

The playing on 'What's Goin' On' is downright stunning.
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jazzfascist
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 10:12:49 AM »

I would say James Jamerson too, it's like he created and institutionalized a whole style of bassplaying by himself, I wouldn't really know what songs Carol Kaye played on if somebody didn't tell me. She and the other session musicians of the "Wrecking Crew" probably did more than they were credited for, but on Brian's sessions it seems, that they more or less played what they were told, and didn't have so much creative input, even though Don Randi suggested the stacatto playing on "GOK", but still. Maybe the creative environments of the LA studios and Motown were different so that the studio musicians on Motown contributed more, I don't know.

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Aum Bop Diddit
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 10:54:12 AM »

I am no expert on bass guitar, but it would seem clear in terms of "impact", James Jamerson is on the list you count on one hand (who else -- Bootsy, Entwhistle, McCartney, Jaco?  I speak only from my frame of reference.). Possessing the greatness of ability as well as the individual style that for whatever reason moves things and connects  in terms of influence.

But that does not diminish Carole Kaye's extraordinary playing (I know there are murky waters to navigate with her sometimes -- but didn't she play on Motown stuff too?).  Also she is in a sense a band member -- take her in the context as a part of the Wrecking Crew and all those great records.  As with Jamerson -- he an absolute monster on his instrument -- but he is also playing with one of the greatest drummers ever (Benny Benjamin) and rhythm guitarists and keyboardists and writers and arrangers....  And these guys were somewhat interchangeable -- there are great Motown tracks you think have him on it but don't.

But he was the best!  And I trust you all saw "Standing in the Shadows of Motown".  Flawed (Ben Harper?  Etc.?), but worthy.  These guys deserve so much more recognition and bucks (ten dollars a song!).
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 10:57:00 AM by Aum Bop Diddit » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 11:21:32 AM »

James Jamerson by a long shot.
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the captain
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2006, 11:27:11 AM »

I am no expert on bass guitar, but it would seem clear in terms of "impact", James Jamerson is on the list you count on one hand (who else -- Bootsy, Entwhistle, McCartney, Jaco?  I speak only from my frame of reference.). Possessing the greatness of ability as well as the individual style that for whatever reason moves things and connects  in terms of influence.

But that does not diminish Carole Kaye's extraordinary playing (I know there are murky waters to navigate with her sometimes -- but didn't she play on Motown stuff too?).  Also she is in a sense a band member -- take her in the context as a part of the Wrecking Crew and all those great records.  As with Jamerson -- he an absolute monster on his instrument -- but he is also playing with one of the greatest drummers ever (Benny Benjamin) and rhythm guitarists and keyboardists and writers and arrangers....  And these guys were somewhat interchangeable -- there are great Motown tracks you think have him on it but don't.

But he was the best!  And I trust you all saw "Standing in the Shadows of Motown".  Flawed (Ben Harper?  Etc.?), but worthy.  These guys deserve so much more recognition and bucks (ten dollars a song!).


This post hurts my eyes.
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 12:11:14 PM »

In terms of playing style, Jamerson wins easily.

But in terms of impact on "bass playing" I think Carol has had a more influential "sound" than Jamerson.  The way she played pretty much single handedly defined the bass tone of the west coast for the rest of the 60s and into the 70s.

Just my opinion though.  Ray Pohlman's always my favourite, anyway.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2006, 01:06:31 PM »

Jamerson.
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Aum Bop Diddit
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2006, 08:35:44 PM »



This post hurts my eyes.

Good.
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Daniel S.
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2006, 11:21:57 PM »

So what are Carol Kaye's shining moments on the bass?

With Jamerson all you have to do is listen to I Was Made To Lover Her or Bernadette to hear what a genius he is.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 12:56:38 AM »

I would say The Beat Goes On and Hawaii Five-O.
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 01:18:19 AM »

It's kind of a Sophie's choice, isn't it?


I'll take Jamerson, because he could cooklike no other.

Carol is great, of course, and I'm glad to see Ray Pohlman mentioned since he is very underrated.
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 02:49:40 AM »

Mission Impossible is a nice Carol moment.

You have to give Carol a lot of credit for all the TV themes and Movie sountracks she did.  It's amazing how many she did.
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 03:01:16 AM »

That avatar is diabolical and makes me want to grind a bottletop into my cornea.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 06:33:53 AM »

So what are Carol Kaye's shining moments on the bass?

With Jamerson all you have to do is listen to I Was Made To Lover Her or Bernadette to hear what a genius he is.

Anyone else see the irony in this post....?   Wink
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 08:57:56 AM »

So what are Carol Kaye's shining moments on the bass?

With Jamerson all you have to do is listen to I Was Made To Lover Her or Bernadette to hear what a genius he is.

Anyone else see the irony in this post....?   Wink

Not me. Please enlighten us.  Wink
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andy
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2006, 09:00:58 AM »

Is it possible that Carol is just thinking about playing on the BB cover version of IWMTLH, or does she specifically state being there with Stevie and others?
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the captain
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2006, 09:01:07 AM »

Is it related to this?

That's a big controversial topic.  Ask Josh if he shows up around here.  The guy who was the touring bassist then (forget his name) probably did some tracks.  Doubt Bruce did much.

Theory:  Carole Kaye did bass on I Was Made To Love Her and then confused that with the Motown version.  It would explain her vociferous insistence for taking credit for that one.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2006, 10:07:20 AM »

Irony -- you state that I Was Made To Love Her is your favorite Jamerson moment when that is in fact the track that Carol Kaye most strenously claims she did.
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HighOnLife
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 10:15:29 AM »

Carol Kaye said she played on Surfin' USA too.

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Daniel S.
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2006, 10:17:48 AM »

I'm well aware that Carol Kaye tries to take credit for those songs. Except that she's full of sh*t and everyone knows Jamerson played those sessions.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2006, 03:02:26 PM »

True, true.
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jazzfascist
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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2006, 05:35:20 PM »

Two of my favorite Jamerson basslines are the ones from "Aint That Peculiar" and "Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Da Day", Carol Kaye hasn't claimed them yet, has she?

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 11:07:10 AM »

Seems like I just addressed this on another post somewhere but.............

Carol Kaye plays like a music teacher.  Jamerson plays like a Jazz musician.

And if Kaye actually DID play on some of those tracks such as I Was Made To Love Her, she deliberately and very handily copied Jamersons Style.
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2006, 12:10:08 PM »

What are Carol Kaye's best bass moments with the Beach Boys?
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