Love and Mercy - News and Reviews - First clip is out.

[37!ws]

So...L&M is on demand on the hotel's movie channel where the Mrs. and I are vacationing. Natch, we gave in.

BTW, don't remember if it's been mentioned here, but....anybody else notice that Banana has more lines than Al?

[sea of tunes]

 

"Well piss on you, Al".

Enjoy your vacation!

[Misterlou]

BTW....saw L&M for the FOURTH time this weekend...(four times, four different theaters!)...and just wanted to mention this:

During the scene when the Wilson brothers are talking shortly after VDP leaves -- when Brian is wrapped up in a towel -- close your eyes and listen to how Carl says "We have to stick together, brothers."

Have a box of tissues ready.

That's interesting you mention that line, as I found myself thinking about it the other day, weeks after I last saw the film. There's something about the way he delivers it that stays with you... it's as if he knows there are more than a few bumps in the road ahead, that their best days are behind them.

[rab2591]

it's as if he knows there are more than a few bumps in the road ahead, that their best days are behind them.

Good point. I think that whole scene kinda foreshadows what each character is going to go through in the future:

Carl: "We have to stick together, brothers." and Carl became the guy who was trying to keep the guys together much of the time. Carl is holding a beer in this scene (signs of future substance abuse problems)
Brian: "Ya know, I think I'm losing it" and Brian did lose it a bit. Brian is laying down on the sunlounger (sign of his laying in bed for years to come).
Dennis: "I don't blame you, there's a lot to lose out there." and Dennis eventually kinda lost much of what he owned, including his life. Dennis is sitting on a railing (sign that he was always on the edge)

Just speculation of course. But the imagery and dialogue do seem to all be related to future events.

[puni puni]

Carl holding a beer because of his alcohol troubles? Dennis "on the edge"? Love & Mercy is a smart and subtle movie but I don't think it's that smart and subtle. Especially when it thinks Van Dyke was a lyricist at 14. Brian laying down on a chair = foreshadowing Brian laying in bed? Come on...

[rab2591]

Carl holding a beer because of his alcohol troubles? Dennis "on the edge"? Love & Mercy is a smart and subtle movie but I don't think it's that smart and subtle. Especially when it thinks Van Dyke was a lyricist at 14. Brian laying down on a chair = foreshadowing Brian laying in bed? Come on...

Given the scene shows up again during the "Bed Montage" and Dennis is missing from the railing (yet Carl and Brian are in their same spots), yeah, I'd say that scene was probably meant to foreshadow future events. The whole movie is FULL of allegories, imagery with hidden meanings. Look at the pool Smile discussion scene and how each character is given a specific place in regards to their place in the Smile story.

Pohlad was a producer for one of Terrence Malick's greatest films (and I do believe another person who worked on The Tree of Life movie worked on this film); Malick's work had an obvious impact on Love and Mercy both in cinematography and in subtle imagery like this scene - thus doesn't make my idea that outlandish.

Obviously I'm not saying I'm right, as I made perfectly clear it is mere speculation.

[guitarfool2002]

Given the scene shows up again during the "Bed Montage" and Dennis is missing from the railing (yet Carl and Brian are in their same spots), yeah, I'd say that scene was probably meant to foreshadow future events. The whole movie is FULL of allegories, imagery with hidden meanings. Look at the pool Smile discussion scene and how each character is given a specific place in regards to their place in the Smile story.

Pohlad was a producer for one of Terrence Malick's greatest films (and I do believe another person who worked on The Tree of Life movie worked on this film); Malick's work had an obvious impact on Love and Mercy both in cinematography and in subtle imagery like this scene - thus doesn't make my idea that outlandish.

Obviously I'm not saying I'm right, as I made perfectly clear it is mere speculation.

You are right. The symbolism as you saw it is pretty clear.

[sea of tunes]

Yes, there are metaphors throughout the film that allude to future events, some subtle and some not-so-subtle. There are many layers that are presented within the confines of 121 minute running time. Perhaps more than are immediately evident to the casual viewer. Multiple viewings definitely do reward those that wish to dive in.

[sea of tunes]

Sorry for cross-posting (also posted this in the BD/DVD thread) but I wanted to make sure people saw these. I was giddy when I found them. 

The film recently opened in Japan and I was cruising through the Japanese Facebook site for the film (I know, I need a life).. but I saw two still photos that I hadn't seen elsewhere. And, the cool thing is that both seem to be from 'deleted scenes'.

The first one looks like a scene from the screenplay where Marilyn is asleep in bed and Brian is listening to "Be My Baby" over and over again on his headphones.



This one is a little harder to identify but there is a scene in the screenplay where Brian is watching the tv and sees some news about a fire and says "LA's burning!" and has kind of a freak out because he thinks the Fire Tapes caused the fire.



Hoping these and more are included among the deleted scenes included on the BD/Digital release.

[SMiLE Brian]

Yes!!!! Great Find JCM!

[puni puni]

Given the scene shows up again during the "Bed Montage" and Dennis is missing from the railing (yet Carl and Brian are in their same spots), yeah, I'd say that scene was probably meant to foreshadow future events. The whole movie is FULL of allegories, imagery with hidden meanings. Look at the pool Smile discussion scene and how each character is given a specific place in regards to their place in the Smile story.

The time it took to plan where each actor would be positioned in that scene probably took 5 seconds of thought at the most. The script called for 'Brian' to hold a meeting in the pool. We know in real life, based on legend, that Carl and Dennis were much more likely than Mike to tolerate the pool meetings. So that means he wasn't in the pool for that scene. It's built in the character.

Is Al Jardine in the background with no lines supposed to be some sort of deep allegory that he had the least substantial contributions to the Beach Boys? Or maybe he's just in the background with no lines because he did nothing in real life that would have benefited the film's structure and aesthetic, and especially so for that scene? I'll go with the latter.

Hey, why doesn't anyone mention how Bruce isn't in that scene? Clearly foreshadowing that Bruce would leave the band for the recording of Smiley Smile and Lei'd in Hawaii... genius!

[JasonK]

Yes, I caught the Dennis on the edge thing.  And if I remember correctly, isn't here a scene at the end of the movie, I believe mixed in with the 2001 montage, that shows Brian and Carl on the deck, but the railing is absent and Dennis is no longer there?

[sea of tunes]

Yes, I caught the Dennis on the edge thing.  And if I remember correctly, isn't here a scene at the end of the movie, I believe mixed in with the 2001 montage, that shows Brian and Carl on the deck, but the railing is absent and Dennis is no longer there?

Yepper. And the next frame after that is a reflection of the pool.

[Misterlou]

Given the scene shows up again during the "Bed Montage" and Dennis is missing from the railing (yet Carl and Brian are in their same spots), yeah, I'd say that scene was probably meant to foreshadow future events. The whole movie is FULL of allegories, imagery with hidden meanings. Look at the pool Smile discussion scene and how each character is given a specific place in regards to their place in the Smile story.

The time it took to plan where each actor would be positioned in that scene probably took 5 seconds of thought at the most. The script called for 'Brian' to hold a meeting in the pool. We know in real life, based on legend, that Carl and Dennis were much more likely than Mike to tolerate the pool meetings. So that means he wasn't in the pool for that scene. It's built in the character.

Is Al Jardine in the background with no lines supposed to be some sort of deep allegory that he had the least substantial contributions to the Beach Boys? Or maybe he's just in the background with no lines because he did nothing in real life that would have benefited the film's structure and aesthetic, and especially so for that scene? I'll go with the latter.

Hey, why doesn't anyone mention how Bruce isn't in that scene? Clearly foreshadowing that Bruce would leave the band for the recording of Smiley Smile and Lei'd in Hawaii... genius!

I agree with rab2591. I'm no expert on filmmaking, but I have written a script (that went nowhere) and one of the first things screenwriters are taught is to "show, not tell." I believe Pohlad utilized symbolism throughout this film, in words and imagery, which has already been discussed at length on this board.

Sometimes I think people who consider themselves "cinephiles," myself included, read TOO much into a scene, assuming symbolism where the screenwriter/director intended none, but that's also the beauty of fine art, including film: as the viewer, you, and I, and everyone else, is free to interpret any work of art the way we want to, even if that's not what the filmmaker intended. Who knows, maybe there were some happy accidents in this film as well, but I think every scene was well thought out, including actor placement, etc., to help tell the story, even if some of it only registers on a subconscious level.

I think we'll learn more when the DVD/Blu-Ray comes out with commentary.

[ontor pertawst]

The time it took to plan where each actor would be positioned in that scene probably took 5 seconds of thought at the most.

Er, no. I only make weird, terrible movies for 12 dollars or so but sorting out the BLOCKING definitely takes more than 5 seconds of thought. The DP furrows his brow and mutters about light. Bits of tape are placed on the ground. Actors then do actory things and so much for your intricate tape markers!

I'd imagine films with budgets of 13 dollars and up are even more careful. To say nothing of filmmakers drenched in Malick!

[37!ws]

Okay, I think everybody is missing the point I was making about when Carl says, "We've got to stick together, brothers" (or whatever the line is)....Close your eyes, and tell me it was not >>THE REAL CARL<< speaking that line. It's...heavy.

[The Shift]

I think we'll learn more when the DVD/Blu-Ray comes out with commentary.

I suspect the recording of the commentary is being held back until this thread has run its course!

[rab2591]

Given the scene shows up again during the "Bed Montage" and Dennis is missing from the railing (yet Carl and Brian are in their same spots), yeah, I'd say that scene was probably meant to foreshadow future events. The whole movie is FULL of allegories, imagery with hidden meanings. Look at the pool Smile discussion scene and how each character is given a specific place in regards to their place in the Smile story.

The time it took to plan where each actor would be positioned in that scene probably took 5 seconds of thought at the most. The script called for 'Brian' to hold a meeting in the pool. We know in real life, based on legend, that Carl and Dennis were much more likely than Mike to tolerate the pool meetings. So that means he wasn't in the pool for that scene. It's built in the character.

Is Al Jardine in the background with no lines supposed to be some sort of deep allegory that he had the least substantial contributions to the Beach Boys? Or maybe he's just in the background with no lines because he did nothing in real life that would have benefited the film's structure and aesthetic, and especially so for that scene? I'll go with the latter.

Hey, why doesn't anyone mention how Bruce isn't in that scene? Clearly foreshadowing that Bruce would leave the band for the recording of Smiley Smile and Lei'd in Hawaii... genius!

So according to this logic, Dennis missing from the railing during the bed montage scene was probably just Kenny Wormald missing from the set, getting a coke or something, and Bill Pohlad saying "f*** it....action!"

5 seconds to place a character? Nah. As ontor pertawst said, to say nothing of filmmakers drenched in Malick!

[Paul J B]

Dennis on the edge, and then later missing in the montage is absolutely without a doubt intentional foreshadowing. We all know Dennis lived on the edge, and living on the edge is the key reason he was gone so early. Dennis also had his back to the camera as well as Carl and Brian in that scene. That was no accident. The band, just like the brothers, were already being pulled apart and things would never be the same for the Beach Boys triumphant run up to Pet Sounds again. The whole movie may not be perfect, but touches of brilliance like this thing with Dennis is a key reason this film should become a classic.

[Debbie KL]

Thanks for sharing the Japanese material, JCM.

I had the same reaction to the more subtle scenes, but it took 3-5 viewings to soak a lot of it in.  Given that Pohlad produced "Tree of Life," I also assumed he appreciated imagery and would use it in a film where he had to pack so much life and so many people into a single film.  I think the man did a brilliant job and I'm looking forward to the dvd so I can really soak it in and am really hoping for extensive actor/director/writer/cinematographer commentary.  Mid-Sept, right?

[sea of tunes]

I absolutely agree that there are not many 'accidents' in this film. The fact that the "bed montage" calls back to that specific scene, with Dennis missing from the railing, cut to reflection of water from the pool. None of that is an accident.

Carl's line "We just gotta to stick together brothers. We just stick together, it'll all be okay", I think, is meant to illustrate that he is the brother trying to hold all of it together and will be that anchor for the brothers and the band in the years to come after Brian relinquishes control. And yes, it's deep.

This film is only 121 minutes and there is so much ground covered or implied that perhaps a casual viewer would miss. Obviously it didn't slip by many of us. Even though the focus of the film is 1965-1967 / 1985-1987 (more or less) there are so many nuggets sprinkled throughout that deftly illustrate off screen events or go a long way to imply off screen events.

Thankfully, this movie was made for grown ups with reasoning and deductive skills and not a birth-rise-fall-rise story. How horrifying that would have been.

[sea of tunes]

Thanks for sharing the Japanese material, JCM.

I had the same reaction to the more subtle scenes, but it took 3-5 viewings to soak a lot of it in.  Given that Pohlad produced "Tree of Life," I also assumed he appreciated imagery and would use it in a film where he had to pack so much life and so many people into a single film.  I think the man did a brilliant job and I'm looking forward to the dvd so I can really soak it in and am really hoping for extensive actor/director/writer/cinematographer commentary.  Mid-Sept, right?

Sept 15th for the Blu-ray/DVD release, yep. Soundtrack listed for Sept 18th.

HD Digital download available from iTunes, Google Play and Amazon on August 25th. Gotta be honest, I'm not going to wait and get the BD. I gots to see the extras NOW!!!

[guitarfool2002]

AND...one of the first scenes involving the pool happens after the Wilson brothers are talking on the deck and Brian tells them he's not going to tour but instead work on the music in the studio. Brian jumps in, then it's "all in". As I have pointed out, so many scenes in the film involving a swimming pool are symbolic and need to be taken in carefully by those watching both visually and with the audio heard during those scenes, because it's one of the keystones of the film which the filmmakers used as a way to tie a lot of the story not actually played out in the film into the surrounding scenes.

Anyone who suggests the staging and the blocking of this film were quickie, one-off accidental things just doesn't get it. Everything down to the seemingly most mundane props in that film was chosen and staged very deliberately where it mattered to the look of the scene, and I have heard examples that have not been published yet.

Want one on this very page of this thread? Something very small yet spot-on for the way it would have looked in '66/67? The photo of a few posts above of Brian and Marilyn in the living room. Notice what's on the table. An old pull-tab can of Olympia beer, as the 60's radio ads used to say "brewed in Tumwater Washington". Some of us look for and appreciate that kind of detail.

[puni puni]

So according to this logic, Dennis missing from the railing during the bed montage scene was probably just Kenny Wormald missing from the set, getting a coke or something, and Bill Pohlad saying "f*** it....action!"

I was talking about the scene where Dano is in the pool. Obviously the railing disappearance was intentional. There are no doubt moments in the film with genuine undertones or foreshadowing, but they aren't so ridiculously abstruse as 'Brian sitting down => Brian laying in bed'. The color blue as a visual motif, Murry telling Brian 'Nobody is going to remember the Beach Boys in five years', and such are all obvious and unmistakable.

Er, no. I only make weird, terrible movies for 12 dollars or so but sorting out the BLOCKING definitely takes more than 5 seconds of thought. The DP furrows his brow and mutters about light. Bits of tape are placed on the ground. Actors then do actory things and so much for your intricate tape markers!

Sure, blocking takes thought, but not 'ought these guys be in the pool with Brian?'.

Carl's line "We just gotta to stick together brothers. We just stick together, it'll all be okay", I think, is meant to illustrate that he is the brother trying to hold all of it together and will be that anchor for the brothers and the band in the years to come after Brian relinquishes control. And yes, it's deep.

Deep? I disagree, unless we're looking from the angle of 'Brian sticking to his family led to his downfall'. It's just proof that Moverman did his research. Everyone already knows Carl as the member who "held the band together". Would you say the same about Carl's WIBN speech in An American Family?

[Debbie KL]

So according to this logic, Dennis missing from the railing during the bed montage scene was probably just Kenny Wormald missing from the set, getting a coke or something, and Bill Pohlad saying "f*** it....action!"

I was talking about the scene where Dano is in the pool. Obviously the railing disappearance was intentional. There are no doubt moments in the film with genuine undertones or foreshadowing, but they aren't so ridiculously abstruse as 'Brian sitting down => Brian laying in bed'. The color blue as a visual motif, Murry telling Brian 'Nobody is going to remember the Beach Boys in five years', and such are all obvious and unmistakable.

But in an earlier post you used "Dennis on the Edge" as an example of reading too much into the film, so I'm not following your argument here.
 

Er, no. I only make weird, terrible movies for 12 dollars or so but sorting out the BLOCKING definitely takes more than 5 seconds of thought. The DP furrows his brow and mutters about light. Bits of tape are placed on the ground. Actors then do actory things and so much for your intricate tape markers!

Sure, blocking takes thought, but not 'ought these guys be in the pool with Brian?'.

Seriously?  I'm hoping there will be a director's narrative with the DVD/Blue-Ray.  While he's the only one who can clear this up, it struck me that the "deep end" references were pretty noticeable.

Carl's line "We just gotta to stick together brothers. We just stick together, it'll all be okay", I think, is meant to illustrate that he is the brother trying to hold all of it together and will be that anchor for the brothers and the band in the years to come after Brian relinquishes control. And yes, it's deep.

Deep? I disagree, unless we're looking from the angle of 'Brian sticking to his family led to his downfall'. It's just proof that Moverman did his research. Everyone already knows Carl as the member who "held the band together". Would you say the same about Carl's WIBN speech in An American Family?

Well, I've never been able to endure more than a few minutes at a time of "An American Family" so I can't comment.  I can think of no reason whatsoever to compare that atrocity to "Love and Mercy." It supposedly had a few of the same characters, but beyond that there's no relationship on any level.