O.k. 'splain this to me: What keeps Al from playing with Mike whenever he wants?

[Nicko1234]

And this is where the fan vs. the uninformed fan argument comes into play.  Speaking for myself, I've had probably 30 chances to see "The Beach Boys" since Carl died and I haven't gone once because I know the difference.  I have ZERO interest in seeing Mike and Bruce play in their group because TO ME, they are not "The Beach Boys."  No history with those band members at all.  I know the difference.  Now, when I last saw Al, it wasn't "The Beach Boys" either but it sure looked and sounded better.  I knew those voices and musicians and it felt good to see those guys, some of which had played with the Wilsons and Al since the late 60's.

I agree that the uninformed don't care, they see Mike and think it's 100% legit.  

But the number of fans who really care about the back up musicians really is probably limited to the hundreds. We can debate it on this board but I doubt anyone else cares a jot. The ticket sales for Jones Beach show that they probably don`t even care whether either Al or David are there which is very sad but seemingly true.

Brian is a different thing as he does have a name and certainly makes more difference. Him being included would make some difference on its own but the C50 tour was very cleverly marketed though as it focused on both the 50th anniversary element and the reunion element. The impact of those two things obviously would have lessened over time.

It`s all a moot point anyway though as Al and Mike couldn`t even agree to play 1 show together!

[Jim V.]

I think you're really underestimating how many people care that it's not brian wilson with the beach boys.

When you add brian and al to the line up they sell out wembley area and the royal Albert hall in minutes, for a reason

In the United States, with people under 35, Brian Wilson is arguably a more meaningful name than the Beach Boys. I work with a bunch of people in their 20s, and nearly everyone knows who BW is -- several have been to see his solo shows. Mention the Beach Boys, and they mention Stamos and laugh.

I think this is an example where AGD's geographical location -- Britain -- affects his understanding of how the band is seen in its biggest market. The BBs without Brian had hits in Britain. That happened precisely once in the U.S. It really does matter to U.S. audiences who is in the band.

Totally agree with you about how "Brian Wilson" is perceived versus "The Beach Boys". Basically Brian is perceived as the genius who wrote and sang a whole bunch of The Beach Boys best stuff. Sure, he's also perceived as quite a wacky guy as well. On the other hand, most people know he he has a dead brother or two, and that the bald guy is the singer, and he still tours as "The Beach Boys". And that the singer (some know that his name is Mike Love) also know he hangs around John Stamos and parades around with him cuz of a misguided attempt at hipness. I don't think many people know who Al Jardine is, much less Bruce Johnston, and especially not David Marks, Blondie Chaplin or Ricky Fataar.

Overall, I don't think we give the average person who goes to a Beach Boys show enough credit. I'd say most do know who Brian Wilson is, what he has done, and that he's NOT there.

[Smile4ever]

I think you're really underestimating how many people care that it's not brian wilson with the beach boys.

When you add brian and al to the line up they sell out wembley area and the royal Albert hall in minutes, for a reason

In the United States, with people under 35, Brian Wilson is arguably a more meaningful name than the Beach Boys. I work with a bunch of people in their 20s, and nearly everyone knows who BW is -- several have been to see his solo shows. Mention the Beach Boys, and they mention Stamos and laugh.

I completely agree. I am 30 in the U.S. and its definitely true. I told people I was going to see the Beach Boys and they laughed and mentioned Stamos. Brian Wilson, on the other hand, gets major respect.

[startBBtoday]

I would think globally there are a lot more people who care about who's on stage - if this is our argument, I could go see a Surf City All-Stars show or even Papa Do Run Run since at any given time SOMEONE in those bands has been onstage or associated with the original Beach Boys.  If they sound as good as the original recordings then what's the difference?  Personally I don't think the Mike Love band sounds like the Beach Boys.  It's Mike with nameless people singing backup but that's just me and I respect what others may think.

The last time I saw Al and his band play there was a LOT of Beach Boys pedigree:

Al Jardine
Billy Hinsche
Bobby Figueroa
Ed Carter
Matt Jardine
Richie Cannata
Dean Torrence

For a fan, that seems like a killer lineup because of the association of many of these being genuine Beach Boys band members.  I guess Mike is the attraction in his show, beyond that, any cover band can play Beach Boys songs and sound good.

I simply can't see (oh wait, I can! $$$$$$$ > Legacy) why Mike kills the reputation of the band more and more and more.  

I would have no problem if he toured as Mike Love of the Beach Boys.

How many people turn up to watch Al and his band perform though? The general public sadly don`t really care that those people had a long history of working with The Beach Boys.

The reputation of the band is set in stone due to the music they created in the 60s. The people who go to see the touring group nowadays, who by and large seem happy if ticket sales are anything to go by, get to listen to the hit songs that they expect and their image of The Beach Boys is unchanged.

If, in the future, there is a Beach Boys group with no original members then it will still change nothing.

And this is where the fan vs. the uninformed fan argument comes into play.  Speaking for myself, I've had probably 30 chances to see "The Beach Boys" since Carl died and I haven't gone once because I know the difference.  I have ZERO interest in seeing Mike and Bruce play in their group because TO ME, they are not "The Beach Boys."  No history with those band members at all.  I know the difference.  Now, when I last saw Al, it wasn't "The Beach Boys" either but it sure looked and sounded better.  I knew those voices and musicians and it felt good to see those guys, some of which had played with the Wilsons and Al since the late 60's.

I agree that the uninformed don't care, they see Mike and think it's 100% legit.   

It seems backwards that you will watch Al Jardine and guys who played with The Beach Boys but not a band that features two members of The Beach Boys.

[RioGrande]

I think you're really underestimating how many people care that it's not brian wilson with the beach boys.

When you add brian and al to the line up they sell out wembley area and the royal Albert hall in minutes, for a reason

In the United States, with people under 35, Brian Wilson is arguably a more meaningful name than the Beach Boys. I work with a bunch of people in their 20s, and nearly everyone knows who BW is -- several have been to see his solo shows. Mention the Beach Boys, and they mention Stamos and laugh.

I completely agree. I am 30 in the U.S. and its definitely true. I told people I was going to see the Beach Boys and they laughed and mentioned Stamos. Brian Wilson, on the other hand, gets major respect.

More respect than he usually gets here.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'd personally love to see the name "The Beach Boys" only used when all surviving members play or record together.

Three of the four voting members of BRI disagree with you. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not sure how Al Jardine's band had more "real Beach Boys" than Mike's. Mike's current band is the also-ran Beach Boys of the future. You don't think John Cowsill is a good Beach Boy, or Scott Totten? Those guys are good musicians. At least as good as the people who were playing with Al.

I don't think Cowsill or Totten are better than Bobby or Ed Carter.  Are they good musicians?  I suppose but I don't think they are better.  They are hired hands who spent ZERO or very little time playing or interacting with Brian, Carl and certainly none with Dennis.  I don't think of them as associated with the Beach Boys at all.  They are guys who crossed over during the shaky aftermath of the  end of Carl and then into Mike and Bruce's solo gigs.

Then it's pure coincidence that when Scott took over as MD and Cowsill as drummer, the M&B show improved exponentially. Many many fans think John is the best drummer the band have ever had, Dennis included, and I have to agree. They were both good enough to be the only members of Mike's band to be invited on the C50 tour. And... Brian's band are also hired hands ? They play for the love of it ? All backing musicians are "hired hands". A whole bunch of the pre-1998 BB touring bands spent very little time interacting with Brian and/or Dennis, because more often than not they weren't there

BTW, Scott & John both joined at the same time, in 2000, some time after Carl passed.

[Wirestone]

I'd personally love to see the name "The Beach Boys" only used when all surviving members play or record together.

Three of the four voting members of BRI disagree with you. 

Disagreed once, in the late 90s. To be scrupulously accurate.

[Andrew G. Doe]

And that is partly Brian's fault. I don't see Brian himself doing these incredible tours of deep cuts and whole albums. He did it in the past, and trotted out Pet Sounds at least once during the Jeff Beck tour, but he's done his fair share of all-oldies tours. Could it be there's a demand for it?

If by fair share, you mean a couple of dozen dates over a couple of summers. They didn't go well, and members of his band (Darian) refused to play them, so he stopped doing them.

Really ?

1999 - GH [24 shows]
2000 - Pet Sounds US [43]
2001 - support to Paul Simon, thus GH [31]
2002 - Non US Pet Sounds in the main [41]
2003 - GH (all three of 'em !)
2004 - BWPS [72]
2005 - BWPS Japan & US otherwise GH Europe [45]
2006 - mostly Pet Sounds 40th [11]
2007 - mostly GH, rest TLOS non US [39]
2008 - mostly TLOS US [37]
2009 - mostly GH [38]
2010 - GH [8]
2011 - mostly BWRG [38]
2012 - well...  
2013 - mostly GH w/ or w/out Jeff Beck [28]

So, rather more than "a couple of dozen dates over a couple of summers": I make it over 150 in the course of 14 years. They never stopped doing them and to my knowledge none of the band ever refused. Clay, I expect better of you as a journalist.

[HeyJude]

And that is partly Brian's fault. I don't see Brian himself doing these incredible tours of deep cuts and whole albums. He did it in the past, and trotted out Pet Sounds at least once during the Jeff Beck tour, but he's done his fair share of all-oldies tours. Could it be there's a demand for it?

If by fair share, you mean a couple of dozen dates over a couple of summers. They didn't go well, and members of his band (Darian) refused to play them, so he stopped doing them.

I'd like to know where all those American Brian Wilson fans were when he once played a gig for less than 500 people in a hall that held over 3,000. And it was a debut tour for "That Lucky Old Sun," was it not?

Contrast that to a three night stand Brian  once did at the Hollywood Bowl, capacity of around 20,000 per night. It as billed as an all oldies show and featured fireworks. And it sold well.

If that is a reference to the 07 Oakland TLOS show, then that was simply a case of a hastily and poorly booked show. As I recall, it was booked and tickets went on sale very soon before the show date, and was poorly promoted, and he had played a gig in the exact same venue, with Al, earlier in the year.

[Wirestone]

And that is partly Brian's fault. I don't see Brian himself doing these incredible tours of deep cuts and whole albums. He did it in the past, and trotted out Pet Sounds at least once during the Jeff Beck tour, but he's done his fair share of all-oldies tours. Could it be there's a demand for it?

If by fair share, you mean a couple of dozen dates over a couple of summers. They didn't go well, and members of his band (Darian) refused to play them, so he stopped doing them.

Really ?

1999 - GH [24 shows]
2000 - Pet Sounds US [43]
2001 - support to Paul Simon, thus GH [31]
2002 - Non US Pet Sounds in the main [41]
2003 - GH (all three of 'em !)
2004 - BWPS [72]
2005 - BWPS Japan & US otherwise GH Europe [45]
2006 - mostly Pet Sounds 40th [11]
2007 - mostly GH, rest TLOS non US [39]
2008 - mostly TLOS US [37]
2009 - mostly GH [38]
2010 - GH [8]
2011 - mostly BWRG [38]
2012 - well...  
2013 - mostly GH w/ or w/out Jeff Beck [28]

So, rather more than "a couple of dozen dates over a couple of summers": I make it over 150 in the course of 14 years. They never stopped doing them and to my knowledge none of the band ever refused. Clay, I expect better of you as a journalist.

A lot depends on the definition of a greatest hits show. You're counting them as any date that don't include a full album performance. I would go more with an actual examination of the setlist -- Brian's shows in 1999 and 2001, for instance, didn't include full albums, but were quite different than Mike's contemporaneous performances.

On the other hand, the summer shows in 2008 were definitely greatest hits -- they included at most two or three tracks not performed by other band incarnations. And they were pretty bland besides. There were a few other such jaunts at the time.

Some examples -- a BW setlist from 1999

1. The Little Girl I Once Knew
2. This Whole World
3. Don't Worry Baby
4. Kiss Me Baby
5. In My Room
6. Surfer Girl
7. California Girls
8. Do It Again
9. I Get Around
10. Let's Go Away for a While
11. Pet Sounds
12. South American
13. Surfin USA
14. Back Home

Set 2:
15. Sloop John B
16. Wouldn't It be Nice
17. Darlin'
18. Add Some Music
19. Lay Down Burden
20. God Only Knows
21. Good Vibrations
22. Your Imagination
23. Help Me Rhonda
24. Be My Baby

Encore 1:
25. Caroline No
26. All Summer Long
27. Barbara Ann
28. Fun Fun Fun

Encore 2:
29. Love And Mercy

A 2001 setlist:

1. Brian Wilson
2. 'Til I Die
3. Dance Dance Dance
4. Surfer Girl
5. Sail On Sailor
6. California Girls
7. I Get Around
8. Forever
9. Your Imagination
10. Desert Drive
11. God Only Knows
12. Pet Sounds
13. Caroline, No
14. Sloop John B
15. Our Prayer
16. Heroes and Villains
17. Surf's Up
18. Marcella
19. Do It Again
20. Help Me Rhonda
21. Good Vibrations
22. Barbara Ann
23. Surfin' USA
24. Fun Fun Fun

Encore:
25. Love and Mercy

And by comparison, one of the summer 2008 setlists ...

1. Do It Again
2. Dance, Dance, Dance
3. Catch A Wave
4. You're So Good To Me
5. Surfer Girl
6. In My Room
7. Heroes And Villains
8. Then I Kissed Her
9. Drive-In
10. All Summer Long
11. When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
12. Add Some Music To Your Day
13. Do You Wanna Dance?
14. California Girls
15. Sloop John B
16. Wouldn't It Be Nice
17. God Only Knows
18. Goin' Home
19. I Get Around
20. Good Vibrations

Encore 1:
21. Johnny B. Goode
22. Help Me Rhonda
23. Barbara Ann
24. Surfin' USA
25. Fun Fun Fun

Encore 2:
26. Southern California

(All of these from Eric's invaluable site ...)

[Foster's Freeze]

I'm not sure how Al Jardine's band had more "real Beach Boys" than Mike's. Mike's current band is the also-ran Beach Boys of the future. You don't think John Cowsill is a good Beach Boy, or Scott Totten? Those guys are good musicians. At least as good as the people who were playing with Al.

I don't think Cowsill or Totten are better than Bobby or Ed Carter.  Are they good musicians?  I suppose but I don't think they are better.  They are hired hands who spent ZERO or very little time playing or interacting with Brian, Carl and certainly none with Dennis.  I don't think of them as associated with the Beach Boys at all.  They are guys who crossed over during the shaky aftermath of the  end of Carl and then into Mike and Bruce's solo gigs.

Then it's pure coincidence that when Scott took over as MD and Cowsill as drummer, the M&B show improved exponentially. Many many fans think John is the best drummer the band have ever had, Dennis included, and I have to agree. They were both good enough to be the only members of Mike's band to be invited on the C50 tour. And... Brian's band are also hired hands ? They play for the love of it ? All backing musicians are "hired hands". A whole bunch of the pre-1998 BB touring bands spent very little time interacting with Brian and/or Dennis, because more often than not they weren't there

BTW, Scott & John both joined at the same time, in 2000, some time after Carl passed.

Anyone would have been an upgrade from Mike Kowalski 

[Foster's Freeze]

I would think globally there are a lot more people who care about who's on stage - if this is our argument, I could go see a Surf City All-Stars show or even Papa Do Run Run since at any given time SOMEONE in those bands has been onstage or associated with the original Beach Boys.  If they sound as good as the original recordings then what's the difference?  Personally I don't think the Mike Love band sounds like the Beach Boys.  It's Mike with nameless people singing backup but that's just me and I respect what others may think.

The last time I saw Al and his band play there was a LOT of Beach Boys pedigree:

Al Jardine
Billy Hinsche
Bobby Figueroa
Ed Carter
Matt Jardine
Richie Cannata
Dean Torrence

For a fan, that seems like a killer lineup because of the association of many of these being genuine Beach Boys band members.  I guess Mike is the attraction in his show, beyond that, any cover band can play Beach Boys songs and sound good.

I simply can't see (oh wait, I can! $$$$$$$ > Legacy) why Mike kills the reputation of the band more and more and more.  

I would have no problem if he toured as Mike Love of the Beach Boys.

How many people turn up to watch Al and his band perform though? The general public sadly don`t really care that those people had a long history of working with The Beach Boys.

The reputation of the band is set in stone due to the music they created in the 60s. The people who go to see the touring group nowadays, who by and large seem happy if ticket sales are anything to go by, get to listen to the hit songs that they expect and their image of The Beach Boys is unchanged.

If, in the future, there is a Beach Boys group with no original members then it will still change nothing.

And this is where the fan vs. the uninformed fan argument comes into play.  Speaking for myself, I've had probably 30 chances to see "The Beach Boys" since Carl died and I haven't gone once because I know the difference.  I have ZERO interest in seeing Mike and Bruce play in their group because TO ME, they are not "The Beach Boys."  No history with those band members at all.  I know the difference.  Now, when I last saw Al, it wasn't "The Beach Boys" either but it sure looked and sounded better.  I knew those voices and musicians and it felt good to see those guys, some of which had played with the Wilsons and Al since the late 60's.

I agree that the uninformed don't care, they see Mike and think it's 100% legit.   

It seems backwards that you will watch Al Jardine and guys who played with The Beach Boys but not a band that features two members of The Beach Boys.

And this is where age plays a role - as I grew up and went to Beach Boys concerts, the band always had Ed, Billy, Bobby and even Mike Meros.  They to me were as integral to the band as Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, Mike and Bruce were, not to mention they were in the band for (some of them 20+) years.

I like Mike and Bruce and no one can diminish the contributions both have given to the band prior to Carl passing away but since then, it's become a joke to me.  Fans from the 70's like me remember the band MUCH differently than many of the fans from the 90's to the present.  Seeing Al's band was like seeing the Beach Boys to me.  Mike and Bruce, Mike and Dean, Mike and the Milkshakes, it doesn't matter.  I have seen clips and heard Mike's band but nothing about it seems authentic.

I would choose Al's show over a Mike and Bruce anytime but hey, I've seen the real "Beach Boys" in concert so what does it matter to me anymore?

As a longtime diehard fan, I hate what Mike has done to the name and the reputation of the band.

Younger fans maybe don't understand but for those of us who "got around" we value what the band used to be and it's hard to see Mike......doing what he's doing.

Again, it's a shame for people who cared about the group. 

[Foster's Freeze]

I'm not sure how Al Jardine's band had more "real Beach Boys" than Mike's. Mike's current band is the also-ran Beach Boys of the future. You don't think John Cowsill is a good Beach Boy, or Scott Totten? Those guys are good musicians. At least as good as the people who were playing with Al.

I don't think Cowsill or Totten are better than Bobby or Ed Carter.  Are they good musicians?  I suppose but I don't think they are better.  They are hired hands who spent ZERO or very little time playing or interacting with Brian, Carl and certainly none with Dennis.  I don't think of them as associated with the Beach Boys at all.  They are guys who crossed over during the shaky aftermath of the  end of Carl and then into Mike and Bruce's solo gigs.

Then it's pure coincidence that when Scott took over as MD and Cowsill as drummer, the M&B show improved exponentially. Many many fans think John is the best drummer the band have ever had, Dennis included, and I have to agree. They were both good enough to be the only members of Mike's band to be invited on the C50 tour. And... Brian's band are also hired hands ? They play for the love of it ? All backing musicians are "hired hands". A whole bunch of the pre-1998 BB touring bands spent very little time interacting with Brian and/or Dennis, because more often than not they weren't there

BTW, Scott & John both joined at the same time, in 2000, some time after Carl passed.

Many fans also think of Cowsill and Totten as hired hands and guys with zero connection to the Beach Boys past.  You Andrew, don't hide your preferences as to who you like or don't on both sides of this fight and that's fine I get it.  That said, if fans at the Mike and Bruce show are lemmings and only see the words THE BEACH BOYS on their ticket and they really believe they are seeing The Beach Boys then good for them and if they enjoy it, that's great.  It's great you talk to Mike and Bruce, etc and I'm glad they kind of, sort of give you insight to some things.  That's genuinely cool that you are in that position and as noted, I think you certainly have a slant towards the Mike and Bruce world view.  Maybe there's a reason Bruce always liked Keith Moon and the BBB board better than this one?

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

Maybe the Brits think after all these years that Mike really was an equal to Brian in the creation of some of the band's greatest hits?  I'm not so sure that many of us in the USA deem his influence to be as great as you (or the Europeans as a whole) do.  For Americans the BB's really were "America's Band" for a long time and the association with girls, cars, surf and summer was VERY real.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I'm not sure how Al Jardine's band had more "real Beach Boys" than Mike's. Mike's current band is the also-ran Beach Boys of the future. You don't think John Cowsill is a good Beach Boy, or Scott Totten? Those guys are good musicians. At least as good as the people who were playing with Al.

I don't think Cowsill or Totten are better than Bobby or Ed Carter.  Are they good musicians?  I suppose but I don't think they are better.  They are hired hands who spent ZERO or very little time playing or interacting with Brian, Carl and certainly none with Dennis.  I don't think of them as associated with the Beach Boys at all.  They are guys who crossed over during the shaky aftermath of the  end of Carl and then into Mike and Bruce's solo gigs.

Then it's pure coincidence that when Scott took over as MD and Cowsill as drummer, the M&B show improved exponentially. Many many fans think John is the best drummer the band have ever had, Dennis included, and I have to agree. They were both good enough to be the only members of Mike's band to be invited on the C50 tour. And... Brian's band are also hired hands ? They play for the love of it ? All backing musicians are "hired hands". A whole bunch of the pre-1998 BB touring bands spent very little time interacting with Brian and/or Dennis, because more often than not they weren't there

BTW, Scott & John both joined at the same time, in 2000, some time after Carl passed.

Many fans also think of Cowsill and Totten as hired hands and guys with zero connection to the Beach Boys past.  You Andrew, don't hide your preferences as to who you like or don't on both sides of this fight and that's fine I get it.  That said, if fans at the Mike and Bruce show are lemmings and only see the words THE BEACH BOYS on their ticket and they really believe they are seeing The Beach Boys then good for them and if they enjoy it, that's great.  It's great you talk to Mike and Bruce, etc and I'm glad they kind of, sort of give you insight to some things.  That's genuinely cool that you are in that position and as noted, I think you certainly have a slant towards the Mike and Bruce world view.  Maybe there's a reason Bruce always liked Keith Moon and the BBB board better than this one?

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

Maybe the Brits think after all these years that Mike really was an equal to Brian in the creation of some of the band's greatest hits?  I'm not so sure that many of us in the USA deem his influence to be as great as you (or the Europeans as a whole) do.  For Americans the BB's really were "America's Band" for a long time and the association with girls, cars, surf and summer was VERY real.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

You. Yes, you. I like you.

[startBBtoday]

I would think globally there are a lot more people who care about who's on stage - if this is our argument, I could go see a Surf City All-Stars show or even Papa Do Run Run since at any given time SOMEONE in those bands has been onstage or associated with the original Beach Boys.  If they sound as good as the original recordings then what's the difference?  Personally I don't think the Mike Love band sounds like the Beach Boys.  It's Mike with nameless people singing backup but that's just me and I respect what others may think.

The last time I saw Al and his band play there was a LOT of Beach Boys pedigree:

Al Jardine
Billy Hinsche
Bobby Figueroa
Ed Carter
Matt Jardine
Richie Cannata
Dean Torrence

For a fan, that seems like a killer lineup because of the association of many of these being genuine Beach Boys band members.  I guess Mike is the attraction in his show, beyond that, any cover band can play Beach Boys songs and sound good.

I simply can't see (oh wait, I can! $$$$$$$ > Legacy) why Mike kills the reputation of the band more and more and more.  

I would have no problem if he toured as Mike Love of the Beach Boys.

How many people turn up to watch Al and his band perform though? The general public sadly don`t really care that those people had a long history of working with The Beach Boys.

The reputation of the band is set in stone due to the music they created in the 60s. The people who go to see the touring group nowadays, who by and large seem happy if ticket sales are anything to go by, get to listen to the hit songs that they expect and their image of The Beach Boys is unchanged.

If, in the future, there is a Beach Boys group with no original members then it will still change nothing.

And this is where the fan vs. the uninformed fan argument comes into play.  Speaking for myself, I've had probably 30 chances to see "The Beach Boys" since Carl died and I haven't gone once because I know the difference.  I have ZERO interest in seeing Mike and Bruce play in their group because TO ME, they are not "The Beach Boys."  No history with those band members at all.  I know the difference.  Now, when I last saw Al, it wasn't "The Beach Boys" either but it sure looked and sounded better.  I knew those voices and musicians and it felt good to see those guys, some of which had played with the Wilsons and Al since the late 60's.

I agree that the uninformed don't care, they see Mike and think it's 100% legit.   

It seems backwards that you will watch Al Jardine and guys who played with The Beach Boys but not a band that features two members of The Beach Boys.

And this is where age plays a role - as I grew up and went to Beach Boys concerts, the band always had Ed, Billy, Bobby and even Mike Meros.  They to me were as integral to the band as Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, Mike and Bruce were, not to mention they were in the band for (some of them 20+) years.

I like Mike and Bruce and no one can diminish the contributions both have given to the band prior to Carl passing away but since then, it's become a joke to me.  Fans from the 70's like me remember the band MUCH differently than many of the fans from the 90's to the present.  Seeing Al's band was like seeing the Beach Boys to me.  Mike and Bruce, Mike and Dean, Mike and the Milkshakes, it doesn't matter.  I have seen clips and heard Mike's band but nothing about it seems authentic.

I would choose Al's show over a Mike and Bruce anytime but hey, I've seen the real "Beach Boys" in concert so what does it matter to me anymore?

As a longtime diehard fan, I hate what Mike has done to the name and the reputation of the band.

Younger fans maybe don't understand but for those of us who "got around" we value what the band used to be and it's hard to see Mike......doing what he's doing.

Again, it's a shame for people who cared about the group. 

I felt the same way about Mike's group for a long time. I didn't see The Beach Boys live from 1994 to 2007 -- only Brian. Then I saw Mike's version of the band for free in 2007, and they sounded great. So I've seen them a few more times through the years now, and I'm going again in August. I've warmed up to Mike through the years and I have a lot of fun watching Totten and Cowsill. And I'm really looking forward to seeing Jeff with the band again.

[KittyKat]

Some of the folks here seem a little over the edge in perceiving anyone willing to listen to Mike's Beach Boys as being loyal to Mike, or so-called slanted towards him. I don't see it that way. Going to his shows and saying they enjoyed them is somehow on a par with saying Mike is/was a creative equal of Brian? That's really stretching it. And I'm sorry, but John Cowsill is an excellent drummer, going by recordings and YouTube videos. He also has some cool factor based on being a member of the Cowsill family (okay, a sort of reverse cool, but still cool). From what I've heard of Scott Totten, he's a good guitarist, and the fact he's well-trained and played in Broadway show bands are indications he has some chops and preparation. I'm not sure about the rest of the guys. Now that they have Foskett, they also have a little bit of Brian's band, too. I don't think I'm necessarily going to rush out and see a Mike show, but I think they're a little bit better grade than what the band was when Carl and Al were no longer with them. I give 'em props for trying and for Mike trying to expand the setlist once in a blue moon. I think most of the people who've been to his shows give him just that much, not that they think Kokomo is the greatest Beach Boys song ever.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

What's wrong with seeing Mike as a valuable and integral member of The Beach Boys? And who's ever said he's Brian's equal? He's certainly the next guy in line down from Brian as far as that Beach Boys DNA is concerned and to give him even the slightest amount of praise is in no way a slight on Brian...... Brian's not The Beach Boys and neither is Mike .... If they're not going to be out there playing together, then it's great that we can go see Brian and then go see Mike/Bruce for THAT end of the experience. No harm done. The music will outlast all of them and all of us here.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have seen clips and heard Mike's band but nothing about it seems authentic.

Serious question: exactly how many times have you been to a post-Carl Beach Boys gig ? And when ? Because if it was before Cowsill took the drum stool, you need to go again.

There's a ridiculously snobbish attitude about M&B in some quarters: on Probyn's FB page he posted about going to the recent LA Arboretum show and how much he enjoyed it, and one of the comments was along the lines of "oh, well, if you've gone I won't feel so much of a traitor if I do". Traitor ? FFS, it's music, not trafficking national security info to the enemy.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not sure how Al Jardine's band had more "real Beach Boys" than Mike's. Mike's current band is the also-ran Beach Boys of the future. You don't think John Cowsill is a good Beach Boy, or Scott Totten? Those guys are good musicians. At least as good as the people who were playing with Al.

I don't think Cowsill or Totten are better than Bobby or Ed Carter.  Are they good musicians?  I suppose but I don't think they are better.  They are hired hands who spent ZERO or very little time playing or interacting with Brian, Carl and certainly none with Dennis.  I don't think of them as associated with the Beach Boys at all.  They are guys who crossed over during the shaky aftermath of the  end of Carl and then into Mike and Bruce's solo gigs.

Then it's pure coincidence that when Scott took over as MD and Cowsill as drummer, the M&B show improved exponentially. Many many fans think John is the best drummer the band have ever had, Dennis included, and I have to agree. They were both good enough to be the only members of Mike's band to be invited on the C50 tour. And... Brian's band are also hired hands ? They play for the love of it ? All backing musicians are "hired hands". A whole bunch of the pre-1998 BB touring bands spent very little time interacting with Brian and/or Dennis, because more often than not they weren't there

BTW, Scott & John both joined at the same time, in 2000, some time after Carl passed.

Many fans also think of Cowsill and Totten as hired hands and guys with zero connection to the Beach Boys past.  You Andrew, don't hide your preferences as to who you like or don't on both sides of this fight and that's fine I get it.

Actually, I doubt you do. Firstly, it's not a fight: no-one's getting hurt, no-one's going to get killed. I do have a 'side', but it's not the one most folk here, and especially the denizens of the Bloo, think it its. I've not handed in my Brianista (old school) credentials and gone over to The Dark Side. My 'side' is, always has and always will be that of accuracy, fairness and correcting whenever possible misapprehensions. The ridiculousness over the ending of the C50 tour was a prime example: while Mike's press release could have been better worded and definitely better timed, the media and fan perception (from many people who should have known a damn sight better) was just ludicrous. I've spent about 38 years flying Brian's flag, so I think doing the same for Mike (and rightly so, IMHO) for about two isn't anything like as biased as people like you think. But, as my dear father used to say, can't tell someone something they don't want to hear.

Oh, and being picky, Brian's played gigs at wineries too. And casinos. Brian's done QVC. But that's OK because, y'know, it's Brian. As for thinking the British fans considering Mike is Brian's equal in creativity, let you into a secret: even Mike doesn't think that.

[Jay]

Anybody that doubts John Cowsill's ability or the "authenticity" of the current group Mike and Bruce tour with needs to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8DTQhSNt0. I haven't heard a band using the name "The Beach Boys", or "Beach Boys" sound this good since probably 1974. Yes, that includes the 2012 reunion tour.

[Mike's Beard]

Anybody that doubts John Cowsill's ability or the "authenticity" of the current group Mike and Bruce tour with needs to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8DTQhSNt0. I haven't heard a band using the name "The Beach Boys", or "Beach Boys" sound this good since probably 1974. Yes, that includes the 2012 reunion tour.

Yeah Mike struck gold when he found John and Scott. This performance is nearly as good as the days when Blondie would rip through the song.

[Jay]

John is better at it than Blondie ever was. 

[Nicko1234]

Many fans also think of Cowsill and Totten as hired hands and guys with zero connection to the Beach Boys past.  You Andrew, don't hide your preferences as to who you like or don't on both sides of this fight and that's fine I get it.  That said, if fans at the Mike and Bruce show are lemmings and only see the words THE BEACH BOYS on their ticket and they really believe they are seeing The Beach Boys then good for them and if they enjoy it, that's great.  It's great you talk to Mike and Bruce, etc and I'm glad they kind of, sort of give you insight to some things.  That's genuinely cool that you are in that position and as noted, I think you certainly have a slant towards the Mike and Bruce world view.  Maybe there's a reason Bruce always liked Keith Moon and the BBB board better than this one?

I've been on the bandwagon a LONG time with these guys, I've met a number of them over the years but don't have their e-mail addresses or phone numbers but I'm still confident in my position and how I vew what has become a lampooning of the Beach Boys legacy.

Maybe the Brits think after all these years that Mike really was an equal to Brian in the creation of some of the band's greatest hits?  I'm not so sure that many of us in the USA deem his influence to be as great as you (or the Europeans as a whole) do.  For Americans the BB's really were "America's Band" for a long time and the association with girls, cars, surf and summer was VERY real.

What they have become here in the USA is one step short of a joke because of Mike becoming the face of the band (and that's equally Brian's fault) but it SUCKS to see what they are now compared to how we here used to see them.

Again I respect everyone's opinions here and whatever if you don't like mine - I've paid my dues with these guys and again, it sucks to live through this now.  Growing up with the music and then seeing and hearing all of them whine like little bitches and.......PLAY GIGS AT WINERIES?  Maybe that's cool elsewhere but in the USA, the band really used to cast a huge shadow.  Now seeing them on QVC?

The reunion gave fans HOPE that all the BULLSHIT was over once and for all and then - because of ALL of them - and also because Mike has been an asshole before and his reputation is his own fault, when it all fell apart everyone laughed and said "oh, it's the same idiots as the last 20 years" and once again the fans get shafted and their hearts broken.

And Jones Beach continues the misery!

How did you feel about the C50 band out of interest as none of the old guard that you listed were included?

[kiwi surfer]

I'd personally love to see the name "The Beach Boys" only used when all surviving members play or record together.

Three of the four voting members of BRI disagree with you. 

Disagreed once, in the late 90s. To be scrupulously accurate.

I don't think that's accurate either since using "The Beach Boys" only used when all surviving members play or record together wasn't subject to any vote.