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Author Topic: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread  (Read 564808 times)
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #825 on: July 14, 2014, 04:43:22 PM »

  One of the things I like about "Kokomo" is that it was a slow-starting, from left field sort of hit. The single was released July 18 1988 but did not enter the Billboard Hot 100 until Sept 3 1988. It was definitely bubbling under for a bit until it broke out.

  I recall seeing The Beach Boys at the Ohio State Fair sometime that August. My buddy and I both thought Bruce's intro ("It was just added to WNCI's playlist last week" etc) seemed a bit desperate. We never figured we were hearing a future Number One hit, even though we both agreed it was a decent effort.

 Sometime around October I started hearing the tune and seeing the video everywhere. It was a pleasant surprise, although I shared Brian's likely chagrin as his first solo LP stalled at #54 around the same time!

My personal theory with Kokomo is that, for the first bit, it's totally annoying and you really just keep listening in order to have fun hating it. Mike's almost daring you to keep hating it, then the drums kick in and the catchy factor ups a notch but the hate remains. But then Carl comes blasting in and all is forgiven ....... Then when the next verse and pre-chorus come along you kinda start digging them because you know Carl will be coming back ..... Then the sax comes in and it's like HOW CHEESEBALL ARE THEY WILLING TO MAKE THIS? ..... BUT you still know Carl's likely coming along again, so you bear with it ..... This is the case basically forevermore when you hear it.... Classic tension/release thing. Makes for a hit.

Worth noting: though the drums are apparently all programmed drums, it was Jim Keltner's work, so the bed track has tremendous feel.

FWIW...

  When I went to the C50 show on 8 June 2012, there was the dude a couple of slots behind me with a Godsmack T-shirt on, covered in tats, and had those goofy looking donkey-ear type piercings. He seemed to enjoy himself at the show, but I swear to God, when Kokomo came on he RAN like a bat out of hell towards the front from the general admission lawn 'seating' towards the front, and he was giddy like a schoolgirl, and I'll be damned if he wasn't singing along with every word. Motherfucker was HAPPY.

So, yeah, you never know. I admit to liking the song (although not as much as the dude I just mentioned, apparently). but that sax solo is almost a deal breaker for me (for the same reason it almost ruins Goin On for me)/
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« Reply #826 on: July 14, 2014, 04:46:21 PM »

I know, difference of opinion and all, but...

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Zooey really can't sing the way real singers are expected to. Her voice is weak. She can carry a tune, but she can't belt and she has no range at all. She can sing maybe one octave if she's lucky.  It's all the same alto croon. Both she and John get by on their big blue eyes. If they weren't physically attractive, they wouldn't have careers.

'Real ' singers don't all have to have 8 octave ranges and be loud enough to sink a boat. Just because she is not a belter doesn't mean she can't sing. By your criteria, that means Frank Sinatra was a weak singer, too, if we go by belting=singing. Not every 'real' singer relies on power...many rely on technique as well. Not trying to call you out that much on that, as again it is your own opinion, but one of my biggest pet peeves is oversinging, where someone hits about 50 runs in a row and is all over the place. I prefer my singers to be in tune first :/

There's also the matter of effective as a singer, what I consider being convincing--basically acting. (Or honest; it doesn't matter to me which it is.) Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen: these are great singers. Clearly, none was ever the kind of "real singer" considered by the poster who is quoted above, but they all are great singers nonetheless.

I don't think of Zooey as anywhere near that league, and I agree that her voice isn't especially strong in the traditional sense either. But she is convincingly cute, playful, appealing. No gravitas, not much power, not a lot of range, but charm is every bit as valuable a quality in a voice. So while she may not be the most versatile, she's good enough in her little niche.
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« Reply #827 on: July 14, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »

Zooey's qualifications:









That looks like a music career to me.
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« Reply #828 on: July 14, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »

Zooey's qualifications:









That looks like a music career to me.

True, but there will always be that nagging possibility/idea that she was only handed a musical career because she was a known quantity as an actress. Much like several TV or movie stars who decided they wanted to become recording artists..... She's certainly not any better than singers with similar voices who weren't gifted that route
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« Reply #829 on: July 14, 2014, 05:58:04 PM »

Watch a live performing YouTube video of Zooey. She has a hard time staying on pitch outside the studio and her voice is hard to hear in spots.
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« Reply #830 on: July 14, 2014, 06:16:11 PM »

Watch a live performing YouTube video of Zooey. She has a hard time staying on pitch outside the studio and her voice is hard to hear in spots.
Doesn't seem to have THAT much trouble outside the studio from what I've heard, from demos, being there live (both as a fan and professionally), or yes, even YouTube. Well, apart from a misguided cover of I Put a Spell on You. In any case, it's a moot point because she worked with Brian in the studio, not on tour.
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« Reply #831 on: July 14, 2014, 07:03:02 PM »

I can't bag onto her, the woman is successful, pleasant enough, and wants to be a singer.  Whether or not she's incredibly talented at it isn't really as important to me.  She's not fake, she's just trying, and in some ears, failing.  Can't fault her for that.  Same reason I can't give Stamos any crap, he's real.  He wants to be a Beach Boy, it doesn't really matter if he has any talent at it, it's not bullshit, it's real.  I can't hate on people for following their heart as long as they're not fake about it.  

For an example of fake about it, look at Lana.


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« Reply #832 on: July 14, 2014, 07:09:37 PM »

In Lana's defense, she does have mental/emotional 'issues' as well, so gotta take some of that with a bit of a sideways glance.
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« Reply #833 on: July 14, 2014, 07:37:40 PM »

In Lana's defense, she does have mental/emotional 'issues' as well, so gotta take some of that with a bit of a sideways glance.

Lana's at least doing her own thing, like it or not. She's not out there trying to out vocal gymnastic Adel like so many other female singers, nor is she doing the cute indie chanteuse thing like Zooey. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I'd rather see someone allegedly sucking at doing their own, whacked out personal thing, than being merely passable at something more easily digestible.
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« Reply #834 on: July 14, 2014, 07:55:21 PM »

Zooey sounds good on that 10 second clip and that's all that matters to me.
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« Reply #835 on: July 14, 2014, 08:00:17 PM »

^ Agreed.
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« Reply #836 on: July 14, 2014, 08:10:07 PM »

I'm wondering if Brian wrote these songs with these other singers voices in mind. Was 'Island' written for Zooey or is she just taking the lead vocal?
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« Reply #837 on: July 14, 2014, 09:03:11 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994. 
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« Reply #838 on: July 14, 2014, 09:20:13 PM »

I know, difference of opinion and all, but...

Quote
Zooey really can't sing the way real singers are expected to. Her voice is weak. She can carry a tune, but she can't belt and she has no range at all. She can sing maybe one octave if she's lucky.  It's all the same alto croon. Both she and John get by on their big blue eyes. If they weren't physically attractive, they wouldn't have careers.

'Real ' singers don't all have to have 8 octave ranges and be loud enough to sink a boat. Just because she is not a belter doesn't mean she can't sing. By your criteria, that means Frank Sinatra was a weak singer, too, if we go by belting=singing. Not every 'real' singer relies on power...many rely on technique as well. Not trying to call you out that much on that, as again it is your own opinion, but one of my biggest pet peeves is oversinging, where someone hits about 50 runs in a row and is all over the place. I prefer my singers to be in tune first :/

There's also the matter of effective as a singer, what I consider being convincing--basically acting. (Or honest; it doesn't matter to me which it is.) Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen: these are great singers. Clearly, none was ever the kind of "real singer" considered by the poster who is quoted above, but they all are great singers nonetheless.

I don't think of Zooey as anywhere near that league, and I agree that her voice isn't especially strong in the traditional sense either. But she is convincingly cute, playful, appealing. No gravitas, not much power, not a lot of range, but charm is every bit as valuable a quality in a voice. So while she may not be the most versatile, she's good enough in her little niche.

Does it matter how technical or trained a voice is if it appeals to listeners and delivers the vocal that fits the song perfectly? Did listeners care that Herb Alpert wasn't a singer when he recorded the number one single and one of the best songs of the 60's, This Guy's In Love With You? Astrud Gilberto - tying into the Bossa Nova theme again - was an untrained singer who never sang professionally before recording "The Girl From Ipanema" which helped put Bossa Nova on the map and became a major crossover hit, not to mention winning the Song Of The Year Grammy.

I don't get the criticism.

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« Reply #839 on: July 14, 2014, 09:27:05 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994. 

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?
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« Reply #840 on: July 14, 2014, 09:33:49 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994. 

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?
I think you misread that.

Anyway, I'm not bothered by Deschanel's voice at all. She has the charm and charisma to win me over in a performance. Brian's voice obviously isn't in flawless condition these days, so if people are able to stand that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to stand Deschanel's.
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« Reply #841 on: July 14, 2014, 09:39:54 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994. 

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?
I think you misread that.

Anyway, I'm not bothered by Deschanel's voice at all. She has the charm and charisma to win me over in a performance. Brian's voice obviously isn't in flawless condition these days, so if people are able to stand that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to stand Deschanel's.

Okay, I'll play along: What or how did I misread this:  "Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994."

Is there a reference in an earlier post I missed that Ron was commenting on?
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« Reply #842 on: July 14, 2014, 09:40:37 PM »

I've listened to that clip maybe 40 times

Brian sounds great on the "take it slow" part. Very addictive

Same, sounds great. Wall of Brian is literally my favorite.
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« Reply #843 on: July 14, 2014, 09:44:26 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994.  

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?


If someone just doesn't like Zooey's voice, that's fair enough, but otherwise: none of the criticism is fair but it's a fact of life for anyone who is introduced to the world via one art-form or whatever and then branches out into something else. Especially if this person is looked at as either highly indie or mainstream. There are still people who insist that Frank Sinatra was a crap actor, as one example.... Zooey's rubbed some folk the wrong way by being presented (as silly as it may be) as this hipster/indie darling and then doing iPhone commercials, shite films like "The Happening" and then starring in a sit-com. And unfortunately her music's been written off in some circles as a vanity project ala Scarlett Johannson's Pete Yorn thing (which might be great for all I know) ... I know a certain segment of hardcore M. Ward fans (!) have talked plenty of smack about it as well.... What does this have to do with how good she is or isn't on Brian's song? Nothing. However, perception has undeniable power in music and entertainment ...... If Stamos hadn't been on Full House, I don't think anyone would bother caring if a particularly handsome (sort of) musician got onstage at Bruce Boys shows and played drums and sang Forever on occasion. They might hate him because he's playing those idiotic electronic drums in the Summer Of Love video, but that would be worthy criticism at least...... It's human nature to want to keep people in the boxes w've come to know them in... I had a hell of a time going from a drummer to a guitar player and singer. Everyone was like "What the F are you doing? You're a drummer"

I think Zooey sounds fine on the 10 second snippit. And if she's OK by Brian, then that's all there is to it.

NOTE...... this message is free to be ignored .......
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« Reply #844 on: July 14, 2014, 09:47:39 PM »

I've listened to that clip maybe 40 times

Brian sounds great on the "take it slow" part. Very addictive

Same, sounds great. Wall of Brian is literally my favorite.

I like the Bossa Nova style of the song (Busy Doing Nothing is an all time fave) a lot! Zooey sounds great. But it's obvious Brian's voice needs considerable 'technical' help to sound good. Such is the reality but still love what I heard
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« Reply #845 on: July 14, 2014, 09:48:52 PM »

I've listened to that clip maybe 40 times

Brian sounds great on the "take it slow" part. Very addictive

Same, sounds great. Wall of Brian is literally my favorite.

I like the Bossa Nova style of the song (Busy Doing Nothing is an all time fave) a lot! Zooey sounds great. But it's obvious Brian's voice needs considerable 'technical' help to sound good. Such is the reality but still love what I heard

What kind of technical help?
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« Reply #846 on: July 14, 2014, 09:51:33 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994.  

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?


If someone just doesn't like Zooey's voice, that's fair enough, but otherwise: none of the criticism is fair but it's a fact of life for anyone who is introduced to the world via one art-form or whatever and then branches out into something else. Especially if this person is either looked at as either highly indie or mainstream. There are still people who insists that Frank Sinatra was a crap actor, as one example.... Zooey's rubbed some folk the wrong way by being presented (as silly as it may be) as this hipster/indie darling and then doing iPhone commercials, shite films like "The Happening" and then starring in a sit-com. And unfortunately her music's been written off in some circles as a vanity project ala Scarlett Johannson's Pete Yorn thing (which might be great for all I know) ... I know a certain segment of hardcore M. Ward fans (!) have talked plenty of smack about it as well.... What does this have to do with how good she is or isn't on Brian's song? Nothing. However, perception has undeniable power in music and entertainment ...... If Stamos hadn't been on Full House, I don't think anyone would bother caring if a particularly handsome (sort of) musician got onstage at Bruce Boys shows and played drums and sang Forever on occasion. They might hate him because he's playing those idiotic electronic drums in the Summer Of Love video, but that would be worthy criticism at least...... It's human nature to put people into the boxes we come to know them in... I had a hell of a time going from a drummer to a guitar player and singer. Everyone was like "What the F are you doing? You're a drummer"

I think Zooey sounds fine on the 10 second snippit. And if she's OK by Brian, then that's all there is to it.

NOTE...... this message is free to be ignored .......

  I tried to ignore it, but having already read it, that now seems impossible....
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« Reply #847 on: July 14, 2014, 09:55:34 PM »

Since we're weighing the validity of Zooey's musical career, let me add she and Mike Love share something in common as songwriters. They were both nominated for Grammy awards for songs they wrote or co-wrote for films. And both lost.  Smiley

But Zooey as a songwriter did something Mike hasn't done in the past 25 years: She was nominated for a Grammy for a new song she wrote.

Brian beat 'em both out. He won a Grammy. But his song technically wasn't "new", it just took four decades to be released.  Wink
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« Reply #848 on: July 14, 2014, 10:08:59 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994.  

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?


If someone just doesn't like Zooey's voice, that's fair enough, but otherwise: none of the criticism is fair but it's a fact of life for anyone who is introduced to the world via one art-form or whatever and then branches out into something else. Especially if this person is either looked at as either highly indie or mainstream. There are still people who insists that Frank Sinatra was a crap actor, as one example.... Zooey's rubbed some folk the wrong way by being presented (as silly as it may be) as this hipster/indie darling and then doing iPhone commercials, shite films like "The Happening" and then starring in a sit-com. And unfortunately her music's been written off in some circles as a vanity project ala Scarlett Johannson's Pete Yorn thing (which might be great for all I know) ... I know a certain segment of hardcore M. Ward fans (!) have talked plenty of smack about it as well.... What does this have to do with how good she is or isn't on Brian's song? Nothing. However, perception has undeniable power in music and entertainment ...... If Stamos hadn't been on Full House, I don't think anyone would bother caring if a particularly handsome (sort of) musician got onstage at Bruce Boys shows and played drums and sang Forever on occasion. They might hate him because he's playing those idiotic electronic drums in the Summer Of Love video, but that would be worthy criticism at least...... It's human nature to put people into the boxes we come to know them in... I had a hell of a time going from a drummer to a guitar player and singer. Everyone was like "What the F are you doing? You're a drummer"

I think Zooey sounds fine on the 10 second snippit. And if she's OK by Brian, then that's all there is to it.

NOTE...... this message is free to be ignored .......

  I tried to ignore it, but having already read it, that now seems impossible....

well, I guess it would only work if you'd started reading from the bottom up ;P

From now on I'll put the disclaimer up top!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 10:16:50 PM by Pinder Goes To Kokomo » Logged
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« Reply #849 on: July 14, 2014, 10:33:57 PM »

Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994. 

Are you sure you want to stand by that, Ron? Seriously?  Grin

I'll assume you made a typo on the date because in 1994, Zooey was 14 years old, and her first recognizable acting role was playing what amounts to a bit part in "Almost Famous". She only became a recognized name in 2002-03.

If you really meant 1994, then I wouldn't expect Brian Wilson or anyone else outside her friends and family to know a girl in 8th or 9th grade whose acting breaks wouldn't come until the next decade.

And no matter what the date, what does it have to do with the song in 2014?
I think you misread that.

Anyway, I'm not bothered by Deschanel's voice at all. She has the charm and charisma to win me over in a performance. Brian's voice obviously isn't in flawless condition these days, so if people are able to stand that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to stand Deschanel's.

Okay, I'll play along: What or how did I misread this:  "Brian didn't even know who Zooey was in 1994."

Is there a reference in an earlier post I missed that Ron was commenting on?

1. Brian Wilson is a famous songwriter
2. Zooey is an actress, and a singer
3. Brian Wilson hasn't written a song since 1994
4. Brian wrote Island
5. Since Brian didn't know Zooey in 1994, he couldn't have written Island with her in mind.

Now, if you take issue with any of that... maybe you should calm the f*** down and realize maybe it was a joke.  It was also much more funny before you got offended and made me explain it.
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