*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[Andrew G. Doe]

If the songs are good I don't care if Brian is singing a duet with Charles Manson. "A Friend Like You" sucked not because Paul's voice didn't blend with Brian's, it sucked beacause it was a forgettable dittie. If Paul had guested in "Midnight's Another Day" they would have sounded good together.

Of course, the concept of good songs is very subjective.

Oh Christ on a tandem, NO ! Don't ever do that to me again.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly.

I'm guessing you've never listened to "From There To Back Again". Because if you had, you'd not be making that statement. Actually, I don't mind RoboAl, but subtle it ain't.

Now, compared with what Thomas did to the live album, the autotune on Cher's "Believe" is subtle.

I'm guessing you're speaking about the opening line, particularly the "...there's no where else I'd rather be" line.

No, I'm talking about every note RoboAl sings, and my ears aren't as attuned to it as some here.

[The Shift]

… Brian will be 72 in less than two weeks and is still in the studio working. Does he have an agenda ? Unequivocally yes. He wants to hear his songs on the radio; that's his internal barometer that gives him satisfaction. These younger artists that are guesting on this records are all fans; and there is reciprocity: Brian will sing backgrounds on their records in the future …

I LOVE BW's backgrounds on tracks by other artists, such as Anton Fig, Neil Diamond, Richard Ashcroft, Spongebob, etc.

Just how many younger artists' albums will he guest on?  I foresee an expensive new section of the collection in the wings!

[Quzi]

If the end goal of all of this is to get some modern radio exposure for Brian, I really hope that he's been using the last 15 months to lay down some of the best vocal tracks he's done in the last 40 years. As good as he sounds on efforts like "Someone to Watch Over Me", we listen with sympathetic ears that can adjust expectations accordingly. The Lana Del Rey fan checking out the collab won't be as forgiving to Brian's slurring or breathy performances and probably won't bother to figure out why they should be. I really hope for Brian's sake that this isn't the case and that it's a successful record for him, but yeah... here's hoping the solution is a bit more tasteful than the autotune that Brian was lathered in for TWGMTR/the live CD.

[phirnis]

I do have a question for AGD, however....  Mentioning that GIOMH almost didn't get released, I have always been kind of curious why it even was?? Being so close to BWPS, it almost seemed unnecessary. I agree it is much flawed. So, who pushed it out there to begin with?

GIOMH was recorded, mixed and mastered by early fall 2003 and was shopped around LA... and everyone turned it down flat. Because it sucked. Scotty Bennett told a fan as much in early 2004, it was posted on the BBB board (where I was then admin) and in very short order I got an email strongly urging us to remove that post. I've been told by different sources, independently, that it was part of the BWPS deal: you release that, you have to take GIOMH too. My favorite comment about it came from a long-term BB fan when I asked them if the mix really was as bad as I was thinking: "nope, it really is everything louder than everything else".

I may get another email for relating this, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Why was BW's camp so determined on getting it out when they could clearly see nobody really liked it? Much better BW/BB projects had been scrapped or cancelled in the past.

(I feel most of these songs should've been released in their earlier versions. For example, I love the melody of The Waltz but this song was so much better when it was called Let's Stick Together.)

[Gabo]

She had a body you'd kill for, you hope she'd take the pill for...

[Loves The Sunflower]

The only news regarding this album that I want to see is the announcement that the release thereof is imminent, i.e., next week.

Beyond that...

I sincerely hope it doesn't devolve into Brian being subjected to working with a bunch of hip today and gone later today, 15th generation Justin Beibers and Miley Cyruses who don't understand or appreciate anything about him or his music and are too self-absorbed and arrogant to acknowledge that the 72-year-old man in question still possesses more raw talent, emotion and genius in the end of his left pinky finger than they possess in the entirety of their combined bodies. 

Like Jeff Beck on his own. He's an amazing guitarist who only gets better over time. But I honestly don't care if he appears on Brian's new album or not. Neither Jeff or Brian need each other to appear on an album by the other for any reason, and both are wholly capable of doing their own thing without each other.

If Al, David and Blondie appear even on a single track, that'd be extremely cool. They're all part of the BB family that has a proven track record of delivering enjoyable results when they work together. Hell, kick everyone else out of the studio and let the four of them see what they can come up with without outside meddling or interruption! OK, maybe a bit extreme, but...

Sorry for ranting and yammering. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.    

[Nicko1234]

I would like to add to this. For the record , I hate the idea of duets, so I was initially in my WTF mode on this idea.  I wouldn't know Lana Del Ray from Marina Del Rey so I was essentially clueless about her work.  But I love the thought of new idea's , which make things fresh and vibrant. And this is certainly different, that is for certain. But when I hear about "duets"; I tend to vibrate, and not in a good way !  But I ask ; does anyone consider "Sloop" or "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" or "Salt Lake City" or "Kiss Me, Baby , for example, a duet ; or rather , is this just an example of Brian , producing those records, juxtaposing the vocals , changing the dynamic on these great songs ?

I guess what I am saying is that I don't consider this a "duets " album ; for example is Alan singing verse one; Brian singing verse two and Blondue singing verse three a duet ; or is it a Beach Boys trademark  switching off on vocals , changing the dynamic of the production ?

There is a world of difference between having family members in a group singing the lead vocals of different sections of a song...

And having a 72 year old and a 20 something trading lead vocals.

That`s not to say it can`t work but people don`t consider the Beach Boys songs to be duets because...they weren`t. Not in the same way at least.

[The Heartical Don]

Hm.

Hm, hm, and hm.

The whole affair of recording that album eerily (or is that realistically?) begins to remind me of the assembling 'process' of Postcard From California.

I may be an old age pensioner when that thing finally appears. And Bri will still be talking about recording a blazing rock and roll album after it will be released.

[The Shift]

If Al, David and Blondie appear even on a single track, that'd be extremely cool. They're all part of the BB family that has a proven track record of delivering enjoyable results when they work together. Hell, kick everyone else out of the studio and let the four of them see what they can come up with without outside meddling or interruption! OK, maybe a bit extreme, but... 

For all I'm more than happy to wait patiently to see what is released – whether it features Abba on backing vocals, the Wombles as producers, Laurel & Hardy as lyricists, George W. Bush as composer or the Andrews Sisters on slide trombones – at the same time I wish for the album you mention, featuring Brian, Al, David and Blondie… and maybe Mike and Bruce.

Always will… being a fan can be as frustrating as it can be thrilling.

[Micha]

the Wombles as producers

That would actually be very cool, but has the lawsuit between Orinoco and Bungo been settled yet?

[ToneBender631]

Probably Capitol, maybe somebody in Brian's band.

I'm staring to turn. While I was slightly familiar with lana del rays music,while listening to her song "born to die" on the way home from work, I started liking the idea of her voice blending with Brian's.

I'm feeling better about this news

I would like to add to this. For the record , I hate the idea of duets, so I was initially in my WTF mode on this idea.  I wouldn't know Lana Del Ray from Marina Del Rey so I was essentially clueless about her work.  But I love the thought of new idea's , which make things fresh and vibrant. And this is certainly different, that is for certain. But when I hear about "duets"; I tend to vibrate, and not in a good way !  But I ask ; does anyone consider "Sloop" or "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" or "Salt Lake City" or "Kiss Me, Baby , for example, a duet ; or rather , is this just an example of Brian , producing those records, juxtaposing the vocals , changing the dynamic on these great songs ?

I guess what I am saying is that I don't consider this a "duets " album ; for example is Alan singing verse one; Brian singing verse two and Blondue singing verse three a duet ; or is it a Beach Boys trademark  switching off on vocals , changing the dynamic of the production ?

Who knows , maybe everyone will be surprised and will like it , and then we'll have world peace !

Cheers. Ray

Duets can work very well on individual songs. Their biggest failing to me is when you try to string a bunch of them together and there's a total lack of cohesion from one song to another. If they can find a way to make it work cohesively then more power to 'em! In the meantime, I'll reserve judgement until I hear whatever ends up being released.

[ToneBender631]

The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly.

I'm guessing you've never listened to "From There To Back Again". Because if you had, you'd not be making that statement. Actually, I don't mind RoboAl, but subtle it ain't.

Now, compared with what Thomas did to the live album, the autotune on Cher's "Believe" is subtle.

I'm guessing you're speaking about the opening line, particularly the "...there's no where else I'd rather be" line.

No, I'm talking about every note RoboAl sings, and my ears aren't as attuned to it as some here.

REALITY CHECK: 1. There are no overly audible retuning artifacts nor are there any interval jumps that sound particularly unnatural. 2. The story that has been recounted is that Al sang it line by line, only expecting to sing one bit in the song. Brian was so impressed that he had Al sing the rest of the verse. If it was that pitchy that it necessitated being that heavily auto-tuned (as some have claimed), would he have wanted Al to sing as much as he did? Brian still complains about the pitchiness on "California Girls". 3. When you're in a studio with a talented singer (which Al is, I think we'd all agree) and a very big budget (which this album had), you don't overly rely on auto-tune to get a workable track. You comp multiple takes to create one unified take. This is a fairly easy process in the world of Pro Tools (or any other DAW) and would take little to no time (once you've got the takes to work with!).

To my ears, it sounds like perhaps a bit of light ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay. For the multi-tracked harmony ("...thinking bout when life was still in front of you") it sounds like they probably used Vocalign (or manual editing) to tighten up the timing. There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite.

If you listen to Al's vocals on the re-recorded "California Saga" on his solo album, his pitch modulation sounds very similar (with a very light slapback delay), but without the reverb and stereo imaging that was used on the suite of TWGMTR, so the vocals are more "up front" in the mix.

[Dancing Bear]

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

[The Heartical Don]

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

You are Mike Love and I want my $ 0.34, now.

[Lowbacca]

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

You are Mike Love and I want my $ 0.34, now.

Would Mike know what a 'download' is?

[rab2591]

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

I think it will depend mostly on the quality of songs we are getting. If a Zooey Deschanel song is a great sounding 'wouldn't it be nice'-esque song, I guarantee the hipster demographic will eat it up and the album will move many more copies.

Also, the big modern names coupled with a promotion machine running full tilt around the time of the Beach Boys major motion picture release is sure to turn heads.

[Niko]

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

I think it will depend mostly on the quality of songs we are getting. If a Zooey Deschanel song is a great sounding 'wouldn't it be nice'-esque song, I guarantee the hipster demographic will eat it up and the album will move many more copies.

Good point, the hipster demographic is one BW can really be sold to. Sunflower/Surfs Up era BBs definitely gets some attention. I've walked into record stores quite a few times now to see kids my age dressed all hipster-like, rifling through The BBs. Not to mention some online stuff ive read, one website i read named Sunflower the greatest 'unknown' album of all time.

[Quzi]

The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly.

I'm guessing you've never listened to "From There To Back Again". Because if you had, you'd not be making that statement. Actually, I don't mind RoboAl, but subtle it ain't.

Now, compared with what Thomas did to the live album, the autotune on Cher's "Believe" is subtle.

I'm guessing you're speaking about the opening line, particularly the "...there's no where else I'd rather be" line.

No, I'm talking about every note RoboAl sings, and my ears aren't as attuned to it as some here.

REALITY CHECK: 1. There are no overly audible retuning artifacts nor are there any interval jumps that sound particularly unnatural. 2. The story that has been recounted is that Al sang it line by line, only expecting to sing one bit in the song. Brian was so impressed that he had Al sing the rest of the verse. If it was that pitchy that it necessitated being that heavily auto-tuned (as some have claimed), would he have wanted Al to sing as much as he did? Brian still complains about the pitchiness on "California Girls". 3. When you're in a studio with a talented singer (which Al is, I think we'd all agree) and a very big budget (which this album had), you don't overly rely on auto-tune to get a workable track. You comp multiple takes to create one unified take. This is a fairly easy process in the world of Pro Tools (or any other DAW) and would take little to no time (once you've got the takes to work with!).

To my ears, it sounds like perhaps a bit of light ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay. For the multi-tracked harmony ("...thinking bout when life was still in front of you") it sounds like they probably used Vocalign (or manual editing) to tighten up the timing. There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite.

If you listen to Al's vocals on the re-recorded "California Saga" on his solo album, his pitch modulation sounds very similar (with a very light slapback delay), but without the reverb and stereo imaging that was used on the suite of TWGMTR, so the vocals are more "up front" in the mix.

It doesn't matter if it's autotune or "ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay", either way you dress it up, it sounds awful and is reason enough to doubt the artistic judgement of anyone who signed off for its release.

[Quzi]

This is coming from a fan of Kanye West by the way, I just don't hate autotune for the sake of it. It has good applications and bad ones, and it seems every instance where the BB camp has toyed with it, it's fallen in the latter category.

[donald]

I never understood all the negative fuss about auto tune and other recording tools.  Seems to me that with all the resurgence of techno-pop, a lot of people like music coming through a machine.

But if you think about it, artists and producers have been doing their level best for the past 60 or more years to "improve" the sound of vocals and instruments on records.  People went to great lengths to get echo, reverb, double or multi track vocals, backward tape loops, talkbox, and so on.  New technology allows further tinkering with the sound of records.  Like it or not. 

[HeyJude]

The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly.

I'm guessing you've never listened to "From There To Back Again". Because if you had, you'd not be making that statement. Actually, I don't mind RoboAl, but subtle it ain't.

Now, compared with what Thomas did to the live album, the autotune on Cher's "Believe" is subtle.

I'm guessing you're speaking about the opening line, particularly the "...there's no where else I'd rather be" line.

No, I'm talking about every note RoboAl sings, and my ears aren't as attuned to it as some here.

REALITY CHECK: 1. There are no overly audible retuning artifacts nor are there any interval jumps that sound particularly unnatural. 2. The story that has been recounted is that Al sang it line by line, only expecting to sing one bit in the song. Brian was so impressed that he had Al sing the rest of the verse. If it was that pitchy that it necessitated being that heavily auto-tuned (as some have claimed), would he have wanted Al to sing as much as he did? Brian still complains about the pitchiness on "California Girls". 3. When you're in a studio with a talented singer (which Al is, I think we'd all agree) and a very big budget (which this album had), you don't overly rely on auto-tune to get a workable track. You comp multiple takes to create one unified take. This is a fairly easy process in the world of Pro Tools (or any other DAW) and would take little to no time (once you've got the takes to work with!).

To my ears, it sounds like perhaps a bit of light ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay. For the multi-tracked harmony ("...thinking bout when life was still in front of you") it sounds like they probably used Vocalign (or manual editing) to tighten up the timing. There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite.

If you listen to Al's vocals on the re-recorded "California Saga" on his solo album, his pitch modulation sounds very similar (with a very light slapback delay), but without the reverb and stereo imaging that was used on the suite of TWGMTR, so the vocals are more "up front" in the mix.

Unfortunately, a singer not needing autotune is not in any way proof that it was not used. Many artists have proven in more recent years that they will use autotune when they DON’T need it. These are perhaps the most frustrating cases. Some engineers, producers, and/or artists use autotune as if it was as much of a necessity as electricity. It’s there, so they use it. I’m not saying taking a crappy singer and trying to cover it up with autotune is good, but at least it has an obvious purpose there. Not so with good singers who use it out of laziness or because their producer just thinks that’s the “sound” that the industry wants. I *wish* they would just let good singers comp multiple vocal takes, do fly-ins, etc. But many decent or good singers aren’t opting for this route, which I suppose would take more time and skill in some cases.

As to the audible artifacts of autotune, there are a number of very different artifacts. Two of the most common are the odd sort of “interval jumps” mentioned, and the more general “robo voice” effect. The “interval jump” thing happens for instance when autotune is applied to someone who isn’t simply slightly flatting or sharping a note here or there, but sings much more “all over the place.” This is what Brian does, and this is why early live shows on the C50 tour sounded really weird on some of Brian’s leads. The “robo voice” is, sometimes, a more subtle effect. But on some pieces of the  “TWGMTR” album, it’s very prevalent. Several bits of “Spring Vacation” have it in spades (e.g. “we used to get around”, and Brian’s “hallelujah” line), and sadly considering he has a more intact voice than anyone else in the band, all over Al’s lead on “From There to Back Again.” If you can hear it (and as AGD mentioned, even folks who are less sensitive to the effect can hear it here), it’s very obvious. It gives notes that probably weren’t sung flat or sharp (such as “nowhere else” and “rather be”) very robotic characteristics, sucking the life out of the warmth of the voice. There’s really not direct comparison to make unless we had access to a “non-autotuned” version of the same vocal take. Again, the frustrating thing here is Al probably sang it fine without autotune. But it was applied to give it a super-extra-super-duper glossy coating that it didn’t need. Like spraying fifty extra goats of glossy finish on a car that already has a perfect paint job, or squirting the whole bottle of chocolate syrup on your sundae, or, well, you get the idea. 

While there’s no direct comparison to draw, compare Al’s leads on the BB album to his leads on most of the stuff on “Postcard from California.” A lot of, if not most of, the stuff on Al’s album was tracked on analog tape, and without apparent autotune. It has so much more warmth, it’s mind-boggling. Not only do some of the recordings have more aural warmth, but Al’s voice is not nearly as processed. He does use some old-school techniques like double tracking his voice on “California Feeling.”

I think Al still sounds great on “TWGMTR.” But Joe Thomas did proverbially dump the vat of chocolate sauce all over Al on that one. Now there’s a visual!

I will also offer the caveat that we are using “autotune” in the generic sense, meaning any of a number of software program suites or plug-ins that manually and/or automatically corrects and/or alters pitch, notes, etc.

[Mike's Beard]

Al did a beautiful job of singing this one, his voice needed autotune like a hen needs a flag.

[HeyJude]

I never understood all the negative fuss about auto tune and other recording tools.  Seems to me that with all the resurgence of techno-pop, a lot of people like music coming through a machine.

But if you think about it, artists and producers have been doing their level best for the past 60 or more years to "improve" the sound of vocals and instruments on records.  People went to great lengths to get echo, reverb, double or multi track vocals, backward tape loops, talkbox, and so on.  New technology allows further tinkering with the sound of records.  Like it or not. 

The thing is, we can be old fogeys and discuss whether using autotune, etc. is less artistically valid and all of that. I gave up arguing that long ago. I don’t think autotune is neccesarily the same as all the 60’s recording techniques and tricks. But setting all of that aside, the over-use of autotune (both to seemingly “correct” singing and its use as an actual “effect”, where it’s meant to be very noticeable)  has simply made music extra monotonous and annoying. It’s being overused and homogenizing music exponentially more than it already is.

It would be like if, after the Small Faces released “Itchycoo Park”, every band used phasing and flanging on every single song on every one of their albums for the ensuing five years. Okay, cool effect, but every song doesn’t have to have it.

Even JJ Abrams once in a while stops using lens flares for a few minutes here and there.

[joshferrell]

Trey Parker (the creator of South Park) did a Kanye West episode and used the autotune and he said on a commentary the episode that he tried it never having used it before and when he sang on key it wouldn't work so he started singing off key and it worked. so basically he was saying that you have to sound really bad in order to use the autotune and actually make it work right here's the actual commentary...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoIIEisnv_A