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Author Topic: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread  (Read 564801 times)
Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2400 on: November 18, 2014, 07:22:49 AM »

The way I look at it, Joe Thomas is someone that's easy for Brian to turn to when he feels there is pressure on him to deliver contemporary music. He can call Joe and that'll satisfy the managers and record label. I think the Wondermints were closer to Brian's vision. They were a younger generation of musicians that could replicate his style while still adding modern touches that Brian might not have thought of.

It'd be interesting to see what Brian would do if he could be convinced that his fan base doesn't care about the music sounding current.
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Niko
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« Reply #2401 on: November 18, 2014, 07:24:44 AM »

Do you know something the rest of us don't about the behind-the-scenes of this album?
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2402 on: November 18, 2014, 07:27:03 AM »

No. I'm just making educated guesses. We'll never know what goes on behind the scenes.

Remember back in the mid-00s when people "in the know" were hinting that Brian didn't like the production on Imagination? It was fashionable to dislike Joe Thomas then. But now we have to throw all of that out the window and give everything the extreme benefit of the doubt, right?
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2403 on: November 18, 2014, 07:31:41 AM »

Don't you get the sense with TWGMTR that Brian was trying to balance commercial demand with what he wanted to do? Think of "Beaches in Mind" and "Spring Vacation" vs. the so-called "Life Suite". To me, it's an unfortunate situation because the balancing act is all in vain. Just give it to us straight, unfiltered.
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« Reply #2404 on: November 18, 2014, 07:44:00 AM »

Funny, because the two songs we've [partly] heard from the album don't sound current at all. One sounds like somewhat like space-age lounge music (the 10 second Zooey bit), the other some people said sounds like a 90s Boy band group. So until we've heard the actual music, complaining about how "contemporary" this album will be seems rather silly.

Another thing: the reason why we're less skeptical about Joe this time around is because the last 4 tracks on TWGMTR sounded amazing (not contemporary at all). And Ray Lawlor has mentioned that most of the tracks on this album sound much like the life suite from TWGMTR.

My educated guesses are based on facts given to us by people who are behind the scenes.
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #2405 on: November 18, 2014, 07:50:49 AM »

It does raise a good point of discussion - what do we all want to hear in this album?

Based on the On The Island clip and Our Special Love, I think it's going to be an interesting experiment full of great BW moments. I cannot wait to hear what people say about the Vegas show.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 07:52:17 AM by Woodstock » Logged

rab2591
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« Reply #2406 on: November 18, 2014, 08:04:03 AM »

It does raise a good point of discussion - what do we all want to hear in this album?

Based on the On The Island clip and Our Special Love, I think it's going to be an interesting experiment full of great BW moments. I cannot wait to hear what people say about the Vegas show.

Absolutely. I'm dying to hear the remake of Summer Means New Love.

The thing I'm really hoping to hear is some classic Brian harmony layers.
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #2407 on: November 18, 2014, 08:09:03 AM »

Quote from: rab2591
the other some people said sounds like a 90s Boy band group. So until we've heard the actual music, complaining about how "contemporary" this album will be seems rather silly.
Right, which is Joe Thomas trying to sound contemporary. I didn't mean to imply he was successful at it.
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« Reply #2408 on: November 18, 2014, 08:12:24 AM »

I think we really do have to sit back and accept what comes our way. Soon as we start saying "Oh Brian, Joe's not good enough for you…" or "Don't listen to your wifi manglers, listen to me Brian!" Or even "here, Brian, let me show you how you want to sound…" then we're part of the problem. So many folk seem to e writing this album off because it's too contemporary, not contemporary enough, because the guest artists are not their favourites or because it sounds too much like Wild honey or because it doesn't sound enough like Wild Honey…

I just want to hear what BW sounds like in 2014.






Or 2015.
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rab2591
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« Reply #2409 on: November 18, 2014, 08:16:27 AM »

Quote from: rab2591
the other some people said sounds like a 90s Boy band group. So until we've heard the actual music, complaining about how "contemporary" this album will be seems rather silly.
Right, which is Joe Thomas trying to sound contemporary. I didn't mean to imply he was successful at it.

Didn't realize that a music style from two decades ago is considered current.
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
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« Reply #2410 on: November 18, 2014, 09:03:51 AM »

I could care less about the music sounding "contemporary" at this point. I just want it to sound good.

Yeah, "Our Special Love" sounds like a mashup of '90s R&B, Boy Bands, and YouTube DIY Acapella, but it also sounds GOOD, and that's all I'm looking for.
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« Reply #2411 on: November 18, 2014, 09:15:34 AM »

Quote from: rab2591
Didn't realize that a music style from two decades ago is considered current.
I agree. That's a valid point that should be taken up with Joe.

Quote from: John Manning
So many folk seem to e writing this album off because it's too contemporary, not contemporary enough, because the guest artists are not their favourites or because it sounds too much like Wild honey or because it doesn't sound enough like Wild Honey…
I expect to enjoy the album. I enjoyed TWGMTR. But why aren't we allowed to be critical about anything? Are we just supposed sit back and say "Brian Wilson 10/10" about everything, unless Mike says something, at which point we're supposed to go "MIKE HAS GREAT POINT SHUT UP HATERZ"? What's the point of even having this board, then?
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2412 on: November 18, 2014, 09:23:28 AM »

I'd be interested in hearing people argue why Joe Thomas is a great complement to Brian's music. But the counterarguments are just variations on STFU.
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rab2591
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« Reply #2413 on: November 18, 2014, 09:39:00 AM »

I expect to enjoy the album. I enjoyed TWGMTR. But why aren't we allowed to be critical about anything? Are we just supposed sit back and say "Brian Wilson 10/10" about everything, unless Mike says something, at which point we're supposed to go "MIKE HAS GREAT POINT SHUT UP HATERZ"? What's the point of even having this board, then?

There's nothing wrong with being critical (I don't think anyone complained about the criticisms "Our Special Love" got). It's the ridiculous statements like "Brian's delusional management" (still didn't get a clear answer on how they are delusional), "They completely misread his audience and deliver stuff no one really wants." (yeah, the latest GOK remake has only 10 million views, TLOS and Gershwin both charted in the 20s), "It'd be interesting to see what Brian would do if he could be convinced that his fan base doesn't care about the music sounding current." (again, didn't realize that "Our Special Love" or the Zooey song sounded "current")....it's these type of statements about an album no one has heard yet that get tiresome.

I'd be interested in hearing people argue why Joe Thomas is a great complement to Brian's music. But the counterarguments are just variations on STFU.

Straw man. No one is saying Joe is a great complement to Brian's music (he completely botched the C50 Live CD, didn't he?). I stated that we're not too concerned with it based on the quality of TWGMTR.
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #2414 on: November 18, 2014, 09:43:00 AM »

I expect to like the new album but will probably not be blown away. That's what I thought about TWGMTR too before I heard it. TWGMTR was way better than I expected. But maybe I'm going to be right this time around! Grin
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« Reply #2415 on: November 18, 2014, 09:43:39 AM »

I'd be interested in hearing people argue why Joe Thomas is a great complement to Brian's music. But the counterarguments are just variations on STFU.

none of us know about how JT is involved with this album. If you're going to keep talking about the album like you KNOW that he has a huge part in its creation, at least explain why. He had a credit on the Peter Hollens song - we don't even know if that's going to be a track on No Pier Pressure.
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« Reply #2416 on: November 18, 2014, 09:56:36 AM »

The way I look at it, Joe Thomas is someone that's easy for Brian to turn to when he feels there is pressure on him to deliver contemporary music.

Or he could have been the person Brian preferred to act as a buffer between him and the rest of the BBs. And Brian's deal for this solo album is, as I understand it, simply the third album of the three-record deal he inked with Capitol back in 2010, 2011. It could have been a BBs album, but since the group dissolved, Capitol is taking a BW solo record instead. But that deal was done with Joe's involvement, so he's with us for the duration.

I think the Wondermints were closer to Brian's vision. They were a younger generation of musicians that could replicate his style while still adding modern touches that Brian might not have thought of.

Some members of the Wondermints are in Brian's band. But Brian's band is not, and has never been, the Wondermints. As for his band, they're on all of his solo records since the turn of the millennium. They're on TWGMTR. I strongly suspect they will be on the new solo album as well.

It'd be interesting to see what Brian would do if he could be convinced that his fan base doesn't care about the music sounding current.

He's already done that with TLOS and, earlier, the Paley sessions. In the latter case, no label would release the music.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2417 on: November 18, 2014, 09:58:27 AM »

Quote from: rab2591
yeah, the latest GOK remake has only 10 million views, TLOS and Gershwin both charted in the 20s
You're cherry picking. For every Smile, TLOS, or Gershwin, there's an Imagination, Gettin' In Over My Head, or What I Really Want For Christmas. With TLOS and Gerswhin Brian was on a bit of roll, but then the demand for heavily commercial BBs material arose. Brian has enough talent that he's never going to completely strike out, but to me it seems like they've pushed him to release a lot of stuff when there was no reason for it. Of course, I could be wrong. Brian may have demanded the Gettin' In Over May Head project with guest stars.

And what was up with the Jeff Beck thing?

Quote
(again, didn't realize that "Our Special Love" or the Zooey song sounded "current")
The drums and autotune production are very modern, with some weird '90s R & B/Boyz II Men bits thrown in.  Yes, the material retains some trademark Brian touches, but are you gonna sit here and tell me it sounds like a typical BW production?

We haven't heard all of "On the Island", but my hunch is that it's another vehicle for island cheese, a la "Private Life of Bill & Sue". Are you willing to bet money against me on that?

I'll still enjoy the album, but I think the misguided nods to so-called "contemporary" music are utterly pointless and without strong merit.

Quote from: Woodstock
none of us know about how JT is involved with this album.
Rolling Stone and other respected sources have labeled Thomas as a co-producer of at least some of the songs. He's also been interviewed numerous times in pieces about the album and gives out detailed descriptions of the music. Maybe he's not involved. Maybe he just sits in the corner and opens packages of cookies for Brian. But what's more likely?
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« Reply #2418 on: November 18, 2014, 10:02:35 AM »

I am expected to be blown away by the new album. Pretty sure I will.
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« Reply #2419 on: November 18, 2014, 10:10:27 AM »


We haven't heard all of "On the Island", but my hunch is that it's another vehicle for island cheese, a la "Private Life of Bill & Sue". Are you willing to bet money against me on that?


Yep. How much are you willing to bet?
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« Reply #2420 on: November 18, 2014, 10:19:52 AM »

I expect not to be blown away by the album on the first few listens, but I expect it to grow on me over about a year like TLOS did.  I now love TLOS, and I expect the same process for NPP.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2421 on: November 18, 2014, 10:31:25 AM »

Quote from: The Legendary Swedish Frog
Yep. How much are you willing to bet?
I'm a poor man, but I'll put down $25, transferable through Paypal.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #2422 on: November 18, 2014, 10:33:08 AM »

To my ears, the snippet is already drenched in island cheese, so I don't see how we'll ever agree on a final verdict.
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rab2591
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« Reply #2423 on: November 18, 2014, 10:38:37 AM »

Quote from: rab2591
yeah, the latest GOK remake has only 10 million views, TLOS and Gershwin both charted in the 20s
You're cherry picking.

No, I'm just listing the latest BW albums, songs (should've included Disney as well). It seems that his management has been doing quite well with the recent projects.

The drums and autotune production are very modern, with some weird '90s R & B/Boyz II Men bits thrown in.  Yes, the material retains some trademark Brian touches, but are you gonna sit here and tell me it sounds like a typical BW production?

We haven't heard all of "On the Island", but my hunch is that it's another vehicle for island cheese, a la "Private Life of Bill & Sue". Are you willing to bet money against me on that?

I'll still enjoy the album, but I think the misguided nods to so-called "contemporary" music are utterly pointless and without strong merit.

I never said it sounded like a typical BW production. And speaking of which, what should a "typical" Brian Wilson production sound like? The man has done Spector, Moog-rock, R&B, Surf rock, psychedelia, pure a cappella....if Brian's history proves anything, it proves that his production styles evolve drastically. Who's to say that Brian doesn't want this sound?

And I'm not sure how 'On The Island' will turn out...but I'm not going to base a negative opinion on it after listening to an 8 second iphone video.
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« Reply #2424 on: November 18, 2014, 11:04:53 AM »

I think we really do have to sit back and accept what comes our way. Soon as we start saying "Oh Brian, Joe's not good enough for you…" or "Don't listen to your wifi manglers, listen to me Brian!" Or even "here, Brian, let me show you how you want to sound…" then we're part of the problem. So many folk seem to e writing this album off because it's too contemporary, not contemporary enough, because the guest artists are not their favourites or because it sounds too much like Wild honey or because it doesn't sound enough like Wild Honey…

I just want to hear what BW sounds like in 2014.

Or 2015.

I agree, John. It might be something that happens to all artists or it might be more amplified with Brian, who knows, but this set of expectations on what groups of fans might want (or expect) to hear on a new project sometimes gets in the way of experiencing the project itself and judging it on its own merits. In this case, it has yet to be released, but that's already been covered.

It's something I'd argue Brian had on his shoulders since the heyday of the Beach Boys hitmaking years in the mid 60's. Remember Brian on tape in the studio asking Murry "You want to have the 409 sound, right, on Help Me Rhonda?". It touched on the difference between staying with the ways that worked in previous years versus updating or changing both the sounds and the methods. One could not produce the single Help Me Rhonda as a record like 409 was produced, and it's very telling to hear Brian on that 1965 tape need to say that to his dad.

That is one of the undercurrents you'll see running alongside the music each time an old sound was replaced by something new.

All these modern examples given on the last page or so of previous projects from Brian, consider looking at it like this, with a hypothetical Q&A:

Q: Brian should consider getting back to writing and collaborating with Mike, and have the Beach Boys put out some of the new songs!
A: 1995-97 with Don Was, songs like Soul Searchin', Carl vetoed the project's release.

Q: Brian should write some new music and release a solo album!
A: Imagination, 1997.

Q: Brian could do a Christmas album again, we really loved the album from the 60's and want to hear more!
A: Brian released a Christmas album with his current touring band backing him up.

Q: Brian should revisit Pet Sounds again, for live performances!
A: He did the Pet Sounds Live tour and released a companion live album from that tour.

Q: Will Brian ever go back to the Smile project?
A: Brian Wilson Presents Smile, finished with Van Dyke Parks' involvement, generated a studio album, tour, and a live DVD. 2004-5.

Q: There are a lot of original songs in the vaults that Brian never released, he should finish 'em and put some of those out!
A: Gettin In Over My Head

Q: Brian and Van Dyke should collaborate again, it would be cool to have a concept style album, like Smile or Orange Crate Art, with the two of them contributing on new material!
A: That Lucky Old Sun

Q: Brian always talks about Rhapsody and the influence Gershwin had on him, how much he loves that music. He should do something with Gershwin's catalog!
A: Brian Wilson Re-Imagines Gershwin, album and tour.

Q: I'd like to hear what Brian would do with other writers' songs, how he'd rearrange or produce them if he didn't write them himself!
A: The Disney album.

Q: It would be great to see Brian writing for the Beach Boys again, or hearing them perform and record new material with the surviving members on board. New songs, etc!
A: That's Why God Made The Radio. Album and tour.

Q: It would be neat to hear Brian's vocals and vocal arrangements on other artists' songs!
A: See above.

Q: Why doesn't Brian work with some other well-known artists, maybe a collaboration, tour, or otherwise?
A: Jeff Beck, Elton John, Carole King, Neil Diamond, etc. See above.

Q: It would be great to have a new Beach Boys album to follow up TWGMTR, with Brian writing new songs and going into the studio!
A: That was happening, unfortunately the Beach Boys brief reunion collapsed.

Q: It would be great if Brian would make some new music, play some more shows!
A: No Pier Pressure. Album and live shows in the works.

Q: Brian and the Beach Boys should patch everything up and get back on tour as a full group of all surviving members!
A: This one, unfortunately, has as much chance as of now as hell freezing over.  Smiley


Just a few examples. Were they all smash hits, were they all perfect records or projects? Find me any artist that is 50+ years in the business and has a perfect record of all "hits" and no "misses", and everything giving the fans what they either wanted or expected from that artist. Point is, even after all of this, there still seems to be that point which John's post touched on about wants and expectations.

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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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