Jeff Beck Calls His Tour with Brian Wilson ‘A Bit of a Nightmare’

[KittyKat]

This thread is no longer about "Jeff Beck Calls His Tour with Brian Wilson A Bit of a Nightmare.," but I don't think the topic itself is going to go away entirely. Jeff has said negative things about his tour and recording with Brian in at least three different interviews now, including one with "Rolling Stone." He was there. They were using his name to get publicity for Brian. They perhaps chose the wrong person, but they did make that choice. Jeff doesn't seem like he wants to stop talking about it.

One thing that occurred to me when reading about Jeff being given parts to play: doesn't Jeff create his own parts, and in fact, the recording they did together was supposed to be a collaboration? It doesn't matter if Brian wrote the parts.  I'm not sure why you'd want a guitar hero like Jeff if he didn't create his own solos, and perhaps they should have taken a try at writing songs together, too.

As for Brian writing every note of music on this latest or the Beach Boys reunion album, that doesn't jibe with what Joe Thomas had said about Brian's projects with him. Joe Thomas has said he, Joe, wrote parts of tunes that were on TWGMTR. Joe said Brian wrote only fragments of songs and Joe patched them together and also contributed his own melody writing. TWGMTR has a number of co-writers.

I'm sure Brian would be more enthusiastic about writing all his own songs and working with his band as he did with TLOS, but he chose not to do that for his latest album, and let someone with a commercial track record co-write the music with him, as he did with "Imagination" as well.

[guitarfool2002]

The thread changed when the Beck reports were piggybacked onto other areas of Brian Wilson's musical activities, and it's a good thing someone who was actually there to witness it was *here* to set the record straight before assumptions turned into reality.

Here's another thing to consider with Beck and Brian: They're from different backgrounds musically, and have different working methods. Beck came from a blues background, and is rightfully considered a "guitar hero", placed in that pantheon of (mostly) rock or blues based players. In that style, yes Beck ventured way outside and expanded his styles to include everything from jazz to jazz fusion to rockabilly to whatever else...but at the heart of Beck's style is blues guitar.

And - in blues guitar circles, a new tune is most often created out of a jam, at least where the musical foundation for the lyrics and melody is going to be placed.

Brian's creative style does not come from a band jamming to create a new song. He works on ideas, fragments, sparks of inspiration, then develops it step by step with collaborators or alone, depending on the song.

Then, as he's done since the 60's, the parts or sketches of those parts are given out to the musicians to play. if they want to add or improvise, it is within the frameworks of the songs.

It's a more step-by-step method of creating a song than what Jeff Beck might have been comfortable with. Brian does not "write" a new song by jamming with a band and hitting on good riffs, feeding off what the other players are doing.

That could be one case where two highly skilled and successful musicians simply have different working methods that don't always fit.


It would be like asking BB King to read a full guitar arrangement and play what an arranger has written for him. Basically...it ain't gonna work because that's not who BB King is and not how he makes music. So if you put him in the studio with a Burt Bacharach, Burt could either write exact notes for BB to play and have it turn into a shambles, or he could let BB add his own style to the song on his own terms (as he has done for, what, 70 years? ) and get much more in the way of results.

[Ray Lawlor]

I agree ; great song, great vocal and great arrangement; I would love to see him do it live. Bacharach wrote the "you and I have given up on love but people change " part.
Brian took it over to Burt's house where Burt wrote the chorus. When they went into the studio to record it Burt was mind blown at Brian arranging the harmonies.  He had never seen Brian in his element before and he couldn't get over it

Ray: Thank you for shedding the light of truth on this whole thread's scenario before assumptions and innuendo started replacing what actually happened. For everyone: We as fans only see a tiny, usually inconsequential microcosm of these people's lives as reported in public, and how is that any more of a basis to make an assumption or judgement than even basing what someone's life is all about by reading posts on a message board? It's not, but again that's the pitfall of being famous, of being in the public eye. Your own definition is replaced by how your fans wish to define you, on the basis of a few snapshots in time.

***Now to my real point  :
Ray, what you describe from Bacharach is pretty close to the same reaction and response I've read and heard from other prominent artists and others who have worked with Brian Wilson creating or recording music. The man has a truly unique and special *gift*, and talent, which is literally something beautiful to witness as it's happening...at least for other musicians who do the same things musically.

His mind can conceive and process these arrangements, these terrific arrangements, in such a way that he's almost lost in his own musical world for a bit of time - yet can proceed to spill out part after part on a harmony stack in a way other musicians would struggle over or overthink.

It's a natural process that to musicians would be akin to watching Einstein process and solve the most complex equations like he was reading the newspaper, or going fictional here those great scenes in Good Will Hunting where this uneducated kid comes into academia and solves the most complex equations like they're nothing in front of men who devoted their lives to studying such theory and couldn't solve it as easily as a kid who was just wired differently.

The Bacharach interaction reminded me of that notion, as Bacharach himself is a classically trained and very advanced composer and musician who was in awe of how Brian's musical mind worked.

Beautiful stuff you've added, Ray, very inspiring and affirming to this musician and fan.

Cheers! 

You are very welcome.  What I find fascinating watching Brian work is how easy it seems to come to him ; an almost simplified yet complex process. I sure as hell can't figure it out , that's for sure. Carole King had a similar reaction when they cut Good Kind of Love and I'm Into Something Good at Scott's ; she was beside herself ; it was great to see.  I liked your metaphor of Good Will Hunting ; I always say that Brian is wired differently than anyone I have ever known.  He could never be a guy punching a time clock. Cheers. R

[Summertime Blooz]

Beck and Brian always sounded like a very bizarre  and arbitrary combination to me. I can think think of many talented people that I would consider a better match to Brian's music than Jeff Beck. It could've been worse I guess; Beck might have called the tour a "complete nightmare" instead of just a "bit" of one.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

Actually , I think I can safely say that everyone in the Wilson camp preferred the original mix; Brian really respects Al Schmitt but liked the original mix that he ultimately ok'd.  Disney made the decision to remix and , in my opinion, did not improve the record. Cheers. R

[Autotune]

This thread is no longer about "Jeff Beck Calls His Tour with Brian Wilson A Bit of a Nightmare.," but I don't think the topic itself is going to go away entirely. Jeff has said negative things about his tour and recording with Brian in at least three different interviews now, including one with "Rolling Stone." He was there. They were using his name to get publicity for Brian. They perhaps chose the wrong person, but they did make that choice. Jeff doesn't seem like he wants to stop talking about it.

One thing that occurred to me when reading about Jeff being given parts to play: doesn't Jeff create his own parts, and in fact, the recording they did together was supposed to be a collaboration? It doesn't matter if Brian wrote the parts.  I'm not sure why you'd want a guitar hero like Jeff if he didn't create his own solos, and perhaps they should have taken a try at writing songs together, too.

I suppose they wanted to keep the Surf's Up formula, which seemed to work nicely... I.e. Beck performing Brian's melodies. And -just pure speculation- if in the entire year those two collaborated, Brian practically never interacted verbally with Beck, perhaps it means Brian was not interested in Beck or the collaboration. No matter how shy Brian is, things did not work out with Beck.

[Loaf]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

Actually , I think I can safely say that everyone in the Wilson camp preferred the original mix; Brian really respects Al Schmitt but liked the original mix that he ultimately ok'd.  Disney made the decision to remix and , in my opinion, did not improve the record. Cheers. R

I want to add my thanks for posting here, Ray

Politics aside, imo the Gershwin record is the best sounding album to come out of the BB's various camps since at least probably Beach Boys 85, and possibly MIU before that. Gershwin has a great, natural feel, with a depth to the instrumentation that is lacking especially on Brian's more recent solo stuff. Even something like TLOS has a plasticky upfront feel where there's little room to breathe in the songs.

I'm not denying the original mix of Gershwin was the equal of the Schmitt remix, but if that's the case then why not let Brian, Darian and Nicky mix everything else Brian releases? Just curious.

[Ray Lawlor]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

Actually , I think I can safely say that everyone in the Wilson camp preferred the original mix; Brian really respects Al Schmitt but liked the original mix that he ultimately ok'd.  Disney made the decision to remix and , in my opinion, did not improve the record. Cheers. R

I want to add my thanks for posting here, Ray

Politics aside, imo the Gershwin record is the best sounding album to come out of the BB's various camps since at least probably Beach Boys 85, and possibly MIU before that. Gershwin has a great, natural feel, with a depth to the instrumentation that is lacking especially on Brian's more recent solo stuff. Even something like TLOS has a plasticky upfront feel where there's little room to breathe in the songs.

I'm not denying the original mix of Gershwin was the equal of the Schmitt remix, but if that's the case then why not let Brian, Darian and Nicky mix everything else Brian releases? Just curious.

Great question.  I agree with your assessment of the Gershwin record. Paul Von Mertens and Brian did a great job on the tracks ; they are lush , natural and have the depth you mentioned.  I am pretty sure that Darian, Nicky and Brian did the mix on In the Key of Disney. Just from my vantage point I think that it all revolves around the contracts , who mixes what.  For example , I am convinced that the mix on TWGMTR and the concert CD would have been immeasurably better had those guys done the mix. Darian and Nicky know exactly what Brian wants the thing to sound like , and they work great with him. 

[bossaroo]

this is one of the best threads to appear on this board. thanks again Ray.

another question:
do you know how much of a hand Brian had in writing the title track of TWGMTR? with so many co-writers, some don't believe that BW was very involved and that his name was tacked on after the song was basically complete. I disagree.

[Dancing Bear]

Jeff Beck's turf was never songwriting. What's so bad about about giving him parts to play?

Listen to this (Syreeta - Cause we've ended now as lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWXYc46f8E

And then this (Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriEq4H1XSU

Now, the interviews... I think it's alright if he wants to vent about the studio project that fell by the wayside, since he invested his time on it and nothing happened. But what good will come from talking about Brian's mental health? It's not like he should be rescued from a Landy situation and he's not gonna get better at this point, that's where he is now. Bad move by Mr. Geoffrey Arnold Beck.

[Ray Lawlor]

this is one of the best threads to appear on this board. thanks again Ray.

another question:
do you know how much of a hand Brian had in writing the title track of TWGMTR? with so many co-writers, some don't believe that BW was very involved and that his name was tacked on after the song was basically complete. I disagree.

To be honest I was not around during the recording of the Beach Boys album at all ; I remember Brian fooling with that song in 1998 at the Chicago house at the piano ; I certainly remember the title part, the hook, the tempo, the chord changes and him banging on the piano but that's all. And the next time I heard it was the finished track.  I don't think he wrote much , if any , of the lyrics.

[Cyncie]

Jeff Beck's turf was never songwriting. What's so bad about about giving him parts to play?

Listen to this (Syreeta - Cause we've ended now as lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWXYc46f8E

And then this (Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriEq4H1XSU

Now, the interviews... I think it's alright if he wants to vent about the studio project that fell by the wayside, since he invested his time on it and nothing happened. But what good will come from talking about Brian's mental health? It's not like he should be rescued from a Landy situation and he's not gonna get better at this point, that's where he is now. Bad move by Mr. Geoffrey Arnold Beck.

Very true. I thought it was Mr. Beck who came off badly in the interview. Brian's been nothing but gracious and complementary about the whole thing.

[Wirestone]

Lovely that Brian has someone like you in his life, Ray. You sound like a grounded, sensible guy who enjoys the music. And thanks for sharing so much of this with us.

[Ray Lawlor]

Jeff Beck's turf was never songwriting. What's so bad about about giving him parts to play?

Listen to this (Syreeta - Cause we've ended now as lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWXYc46f8E

And then this (Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriEq4H1XSU

Now, the interviews... I think it's alright if he wants to vent about the studio project that fell by the wayside, since he invested his time on it and nothing happened. But what good will come from talking about Brian's mental health? It's not like he should be rescued from a Landy situation and he's not gonna get better at this point, that's where he is now. Bad move by Mr. Geoffrey Arnold Beck.

Very true. I thought it was Mr. Beck who came off badly in the interview. Brian's been nothing but gracious and complementary about the whole thing.

I am sorry to say that I think this is familiar territory for Jeff Beck . Check this out ; sounds like a similar gripe

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/10/24/jeff-beck-on-rod-stewart-he-never-calls/

I know that Brian was blown away by Jeff's playing and has been very vocal about that to anyone who cares to listen. Jeff came into the studio to play on Brian's songs; and wanted direction from Brian on what to play. I just don't think that talking about Brian being mentally ill has anything to do with recording/touring music and it lacks class.

[18thofMay]

The ritual was simple: get to the house, Brian always waiting in the driveway

So much great stuff Ray, but this is my favorite part.  I love the image of Brian waiting in the driveway because he can't wait to play his new songs for someone.  So great.

That's his M.O. When he is working; if you are picking him up  he is in the driveway waiting; i think Darian mentions this in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary.  The particular timeframe that culminated in the release of TLOS ; he was up every day at 0500 ready to get on with it. For me ; best summer ever !

LOve this part thanks so much Ray, I cant wait to be in LA in October!

[Cyncie]

Jeff Beck's turf was never songwriting. What's so bad about about giving him parts to play?

Listen to this (Syreeta - Cause we've ended now as lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWXYc46f8E

And then this (Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriEq4H1XSU

Now, the interviews... I think it's alright if he wants to vent about the studio project that fell by the wayside, since he invested his time on it and nothing happened. But what good will come from talking about Brian's mental health? It's not like he should be rescued from a Landy situation and he's not gonna get better at this point, that's where he is now. Bad move by Mr. Geoffrey Arnold Beck.

Very true. I thought it was Mr. Beck who came off badly in the interview. Brian's been nothing but gracious and complementary about the whole thing.

I am sorry to say that I think this is familiar territory for Jeff Beck . Check this out ; sounds like a similar gripe

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/10/24/jeff-beck-on-rod-stewart-he-never-calls/

I know that Brian was blown away by Jeff's playing and has been very vocal about that to anyone who cares to listen. Jeff came into the studio to play on Brian's songs; and wanted direction from Brian on what to play. I just don't think that talking about Brian being mentally ill has anything to do with recording/touring music and it lacks class.

Completely agree. Thanks for sharing your insights and for being a good friend to Brian and to this board.

[Loaf]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

Actually , I think I can safely say that everyone in the Wilson camp preferred the original mix; Brian really respects Al Schmitt but liked the original mix that he ultimately ok'd.  Disney made the decision to remix and , in my opinion, did not improve the record. Cheers. R

I want to add my thanks for posting here, Ray

Politics aside, imo the Gershwin record is the best sounding album to come out of the BB's various camps since at least probably Beach Boys 85, and possibly MIU before that. Gershwin has a great, natural feel, with a depth to the instrumentation that is lacking especially on Brian's more recent solo stuff. Even something like TLOS has a plasticky upfront feel where there's little room to breathe in the songs.

I'm not denying the original mix of Gershwin was the equal of the Schmitt remix, but if that's the case then why not let Brian, Darian and Nicky mix everything else Brian releases? Just curious.

Great question.  I agree with your assessment of the Gershwin record. Paul Von Mertens and Brian did a great job on the tracks ; they are lush , natural and have the depth you mentioned.  I am pretty sure that Darian, Nicky and Brian did the mix on In the Key of Disney. Just from my vantage point I think that it all revolves around the contracts , who mixes what.  For example , I am convinced that the mix on TWGMTR and the concert CD would have been immeasurably better had those guys done the mix. Darian and Nicky know exactly what Brian wants the thing to sound like , and they work great with him. 

The Disney album is the only one i don't have. I didn't get it because i assumed the mix would be a return to the same pre-Gershwin quality, so an album of lifeless-sounding songs that i didn't like to begin with (not a Disney movie fan) didn't appeal to me. However, a decent mix might be worth listening to.

[TMinthePM]

I too blew off the Gershwin and Disney releases until the impending release of That's Why God Made the Radio whetted my appetite for something new, and boy was I ever wrong! These three together are undoubtedly the best "Beach Boys" albums since at least Holland. No, since Summer Days and Summer Nights! And, considering what followed in 1966, I'd say, no I predict, we are gonna be hearing a major, major landmark work when the next one is released. So buckle up your seatbelts! 
 

[Nicko1234]

To be honest I was not around during the recording of the Beach Boys album at all ; I remember Brian fooling with that song in 1998 at the Chicago house at the piano ; I certainly remember the title part, the hook, the tempo, the chord changes and him banging on the piano but that's all. And the next time I heard it was the finished track.  I don't think he wrote much , if any , of the lyrics.

Thanks for your posts in this thread.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the recording of the GIOMH album if you were around at that point.

[Billf]

I think that Brian is not well served by his people, who repeatedly seem to think the way to jump start his projects is to involve other, hotter named artists (e.g., Elton John,  McCartney, Clapton, and now Jeff Beck), who really aren't artistically compatible with him, yet force collaborations to create a buzz in the marketplace. Honestly, how many times do you return to City Blues for listening pleasure? The breathless announcement and publicity of the studio work with Beck was oddly reminiscent of a similar prediction from the BW Machine of a "rock and roll album" dream collaboration with McCartney that never materialized. Having bought into the Beck hype to the tune of $200 a ticket only to see an oil and water collaboration when I was led to believe I would be witnessing musical magic was a great disappointment, in contrast to the fantastic show by Brian and company I had seen in Dayton only a few months before. I can only conclude that this is all attributable to Brian surrounding himself with well meaning hacks with poor judgment. The guy deserves better.

[Yorick]

Thank you so much for your valuable insights! Would you say Brian's creative explosion during that summer was a direct result of the commercial success of Presents SMiLE? Seeing that Brian was always very competitive and driven by commercial success, it's like it gave him the confidence to keep on writing and working. Or is he like that all the time?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

Told ya.  (sits back, folds arms, smiles enigmatically into beard)

[HeyJude]

To give a very slightly alternate perspective on this Jeff Beck issue: I think Beck speaking candidly (whether his observations or comments or justified or even appropriate) speaks to what their collaborations always was. This was not Beck being integrated into the inner circle, or a new “Traveling Wilburys” style supergroup being formed. This was Brian (and Beck) reaching outside of their familiar style to try a new type of collaboration. I think it’s surprising in a great way that Beck has gravitated in any way towards working on Brian’s stuff, and I will also say huge credit goes to whomever in Brian’s camp reached out and was willing to work with Beck. This includes of course Brian who did the actual musical collaborations.

But whether it was Joe Thomas, or somebody else in Brian’s camp, I’m very glad that they opened up to a collaboration (even if a “collaboration” only in someone adding to Brian’s stuff mainly) with someone who they weren’t sure would coddle Brian or only tow the political line and edit what they say in interviews. Now, this may ultimately mean these guys can’t continue to work together a great deal in the future (I dunno, the other BB’s and Brian have said some pretty negative stuff about each other in interviews in past years and can still work together for periods of time anyway; but Beck saying not-so-positive things about Brian’s state probably doesn’t make another collaboration more likely), but I hope they can still salvage what Beck did with Brian, because it simply *has* to sound at least a bit different than the usual Brian solo fare, and I think that could be a good thing (for fans, and certainly might help Brian with critics for anyone that cares about such things).