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Jeff Beck and Brian Wilson‘s musical partnership seems to have been much more exciting in theory than it was in reality — at least according to Beck, anyway.

The duo’s highly anticipated 2013 tour went hand-in-hand with some studio sessions for a new Wilson album (or albums), but it sounds like all that musical activity failed to generate much in the way of a personal connection. According to Beck, he “had fallen in love with the idea of playing with Brian Wilson,” to the point that he even kept going after undergoing an endoscopy during the tour’s stop in Chicago. Unfortunately, he says he ultimately found himself unable to establish a friendship with his tourmate. Describing the experience as “a bit of a nightmare,” Beck continued, “He doesn’t speak. He’s clearly in need of attention. But that’s just my opinion.”

The writing was on the wall as early as the sessions that preceded the tour, Beck told Classic Rock Magazine. “For four days I sat there and didn’t even know Brian was in the room. He was so quiet, he never uttered a syllable. And yet they gave me these parts that allegedly he’d written. Then we were offered some shows together: ‘Jeff, this is gonna be the tour of the year!’ They should’ve got the bloody record done first, but they got excited and we ended up doing the Jeff Beck-Brian Wilson tour prematurely.”

Presumably, Beck will have a better time during his upcoming run of dates with ZZ Top — and then there’s always his new album to look forward to, which he described by saying, “It’s almost like if you went to Turkey and came across a rabid bar band, but it’s more sophisticated.”


Read More: Jeff Beck Calls His Tour with Brian Wilson 'A Bit of a Nightmare' | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/jeff-beck-brian-wilson-tour-nightmare/?trackback=tsmclip

Here's what Brian had said about the tour on his website earlier on:

“I’d like to thank everyone on our tour and especially my band, Al, Dave, and the great Jeff Beck and his band for making this tour so much fun. And most of all, I’d like to thank all my fans who came out to see us. We’re working on some cool new music now and I think you’re really gonna dig it! ”

— Brian

Well, that's unfortunate but not surprising.  It was a fantastic show nonetheless.

Well and in this perhaps once we've removed and inserted the appropriate names, we may finally have the definitive reason (for those who hadn't already deduced it) as to why another tour didn't carry on down the road despite the fact it was enthusiastically received by both critics and fans alike. 

"Excited". Hrmph.  >:(
I do wish Brian had better/ less greedy handlers. He really shouldn't be touring.

What if... what if Brian hasn't written a real song since the '80s? What if he's a front for other people that use the Brian Wilson name to sell records? They let the old dog have a few chords and harmonies here and there, but mostly he sits back and collects paychecks. Could it be? Andy Paley asserted as much, didn't he? Why did Brian have to work on all the That's Why God Made The Radio recordings when no Beach Boys were around? I could tell from interviews that the group thought Brian wrote more of the music then he really did. They credited stuff to Brian that Joe Thomas fussed up to doing in interviews.

do I see a "Conspiracy" here?  ;D but seriously who knows how much his mental illness has hindered him over the years, I hope this is NOT true though, it would be nice to know he had a hand in his own music, I have a feeling he's been doing what he's been doing since the late 60's, he would start a recording (or write a demo) and leave it unfinished and the people around him would either find these songs, or ask him if he has any new songs or would see him playing a song on the piano and ask him about it, and they would take the songs and finish them with Brian's help (or in some without, "MIU" cough cough), after all how many songs after "Break Away" can you think of where Brian was involved from the beginning to the end of the song,(maybe "'til I die") heck even "Love You" had to be finished by Carl and MIU has obvious Brian Wilson music and chord progressions with lyrics slapped on them by the other members.. we also have "sail on sailor", "Good Timing", "Darlin'" and "Time to get alone" which were songs that were either started and shelved only to be dug up later or the Beach Boys "Discovered" that he had recorded these songs (mostly for other people) and would take them and dub their voices on them..

Then I wanna shake their hands for making so many damn good albums and putting on so many damn good concerts!  There's clearly Brian-Wilson-level talent behind the last decade of his solo career, and no matter how much of it comes from talented collaborators it's still a thing of beauty worth celebrating.

Not sure why I should be bothered that he didn't write a note of "I Loves You Porgy", either -- the voice singing it is in so much better shape than at any point in the '80s...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Cheers.

Perhaps Brian does not like Beck and thus ignores him.

Perhaps that's the way Brian is... at times, at least.

But, by looking at the musical output Brian's collaborators have put together on their own thru the years it is obvious that Brian himself is involved in one degree or another with the music that bears his name. Brian's music is of a higher level and inspiration than that of his recent collaborators. He needs, uses, and takes full advantage of collaborators. Always has.

It would be entirely irrelevant to people who enjoy music for the sake of the music made.

It would be a big deal to people who create for themselves some kind of relationship to the (in this case falsified) creator-artist.

It would be morally unfortunate for those involved, I suppose, but that isn't my problem.

So, why did Brian or Brian's people ask Beck to work with him if Brian dislikes him to the point of ignoring him? I assume Brian isn't that way with Paul McCartney or people he likes.  Jeff may be right in asking why he was asked to work on the album or do the tour, even if the tour did okay.  I think Brian's people were using him. They wanted something to grab headlines for Brian and ensure as many people as possible knew he had a solo touring career after the PR of C50 ending.

Maybe Brian's just a shy and reserved guy who doesn't have much of an appetite for conversation.  Maybe he thought he connected with Jeff Beck the only way he knew how , through music and at the show I went to, he looked like he was having a blast when he and Beck were on stage together.

If Jeff is right about being handed parts to play while Brian sat silently in the same room, it is questionable who wrote the parts. I'm assuming Joe.

I sent a Facebook message to Brian once and he ignored me too.

Pretty sure Brian is just not an engaging person in general due to his mental illness, the drugs he used to take which accelerated said mental illness, and from the prescribed meds he currently takes to combat said mental illness.  

.

Maybe getting on Beck's nerves was Brian's way of sabotaging a collaboration he did not want. That said, his behavior in public is bizarre, Gary Usher tells episodes like Beck's in the. "Wilson Project" book, so there's plenty of reasons to think Brian may act like he's not there.

Regarding the parts that were handed to Beck, they may be Brian's- no matter how silently he sat. He may have thought them out, then have somebody transcribe the  or record them.

The behavior that Jeff Beck describes is found in much - not all but much - of the Beautiful Dreamer documentary. And, that "project" was/is hailed as the peak or at least the highlight of Brian Wilson's solo career.

I'm sure AGD is gonna get a kick out of this...

he predicted the sour end of their collab long ago

(I don't think we're gonna hear him on the record)

Pure nonsense. In 2006/2007 , I spent a good portion of my time , and American Airlines points , commuting between JFK and LAX. Literally every morning, at 0800 EST, my phone would ring.  At the other end of the line, was Brian Wilson, already up , working on songs, asking for input ; what I thought.  The next question was invariably " when can you come out ? " It was the summer of the Scott Bennett sessions. I would fly out and immediately go to the house......every week. The ritual was simple: get to the house, Brian always waiting in the driveway, go up to the music room where he would play the new song on his synthesizer, never on the grand piano. Then , go to the deli and eat , then go to the park and walk.  Then drive to Scott's place early so we could listen to "Pet Sounds" ....then stop at the same 7-11 and get a 6 pack of Corona Light for the session. Brian would lay down several piano tracks , Scott would add bass, drums and guitar; Brian would then lay down the lead vocal. The songs were written , lyrics and music , by Brian. Later on they were shortened ( most were over four minutes long) and lyrics were rewritten by Scott , tailoring it for "That Lucky Old Sun". The songs were: "Walking Down the Path of Life" , about 4:30 long, "Morning Beat", "Angel's in Love", "Good Kind of Love", about a minute longer than the released version, "Live Let Live" ,  about 45 seconds longer than the released version, "Mexican Girl" , "oh , Mi Amour", "Message Man" , "Wonderin What You're Up to Now" , which ultimately became "California Role", "Oxygen to the Brain", "Going Home" , about 4:30 minutes long, 'Isn't That Just Like Me and You", "Night Came Gently ", "Isn't That Just Like Me and You", "Forever She'll be My Surfer Girl", "I Wanna Be With You", "Do You Have a Story to Tell"..."Midnight's Another Day " was co written with Scott; "What Love Can Do " was co-written with Burt Bacharach . I have every generation of each one of these songs on CD here at home ; from Brian's piano demo's, to the Scott Bennett engineered sessions, to what came out. Any theory that Brian does not write his own stuff anymore is just pure unadulterated nonsense.

This post brought a smile to my face. Thank you. I especially like that Brian still listens to Pet Sounds for inspiration. Just like many of us here I'd assume!

Wonder if the other titles unused you mention may get a re-working on some of Brian's upcoming project(s)?

And how cool is it that you have unreleased Brian demos and rough mixes at your convenience. Avoid the barrage of private messages! :)

 When can I come by to listen?

Ray Lawlor does not post here enough!

I don't know; although Brian does recycle some of his stuff as everyone knows.  I forgot to mention another song he wrote during that time frame " Nobody Ever Got Me Like You Do" , written for Melinda.  It ultimately became "What I Really Want For Christmas"

Listening to Pet Sounds while driving around LA with Brian Wilson singing along is a surreal experience. He really was focused on "Don't Talk",  "Caroline , No" and  "I Guess I Just Wasn't Made For These Times".....said it was like Valium !

does this mean that Melinda is all he really wanted for Christmas??

I would like to put my two cents in on this as well.  I was at several of the Beck/Wilson shows and can pass on my observations of the view from the cheap seats.  As anyone who has followed the career of Brian and the Beach Boys knows , Brian is notoriously shy and can be very withdrawn...I don't think this is news for anyone who frequents this or any other board. Jeff Beck , from my observation , is your classic Rock and Roll guy ( and the greatest guitarist); gig is over and he is hanging out at the bar with Scott and Jenny , Lizzie Ball and various other members of the respective bands. Brian , on the other hand, goes back and hangs out in his hotel room or on the tour bus, so you could not have two more disparate personalities. I did not see much interplay between the two of them , other than when Brian took both bands to Del Frisco's in New York for dinner. JB sat next to Brian and they seemed to get along ok. It takes a while for Brian to warm up to someone he barely knows; I am sure that threw JB off.  On the other hand , other than sound checks , I don't know when there would be much time for socializing for either of them.

I was not in the studio for the sessions with JB and Brian , so I can only speak to sessions I have been in (SMiLE, Scott , TLOS, Gershwin, Getting in Over My Head, Everything I Need, What Love Can Do).  I have sat next to him at the board when he hasn't said a word or done anything for an hour , finally asking him ;" Brian , what the hell are you doing ???"  Answer : " I am working"...he was working out arrangements in his head; then went out and taught them to the guys. I have also had him tell me to give directions to the guys as well , which I had the good sense not to do ; so I get that somebody in the booth could have been dictating to Jeff what to play......probably Jeff Foskett, maybe Joe Thomas; I don't know, but I can take an educated guess; I have experienced a very quiet BW in the booth.

But I also could see that JB can be a very obstinate guy ;I did see a few things at The Beacon in NY that I can't talk about in a public forum that would back that up, and I know this is not the first time he has had issues with one of his peers; I think it's an occupational hazard.

And for the record I thought the tour was great, especially BAD.

thanks for the posts Ray Lawlor... very heartening.

I'd love to know more about Brian's collaboration with Burt Bacharach on "What Love Can Do"
who wrote what? did they write it together in the same room? how long did it take to write from start to finish?

it's a great tune.

That is awesome! Having heard Scott Bennett's stuff, none of it has the magic of That Lucky Old Sun! The fact that Brian is still coming up with arrangements in his head for things as brilliant as That Lucky Old Sun is heart warming to know that Brian still has IT.

I agree ; great song, great vocal and great arrangement; I would love to see him do it live. Bacharach wrote the "you and I have given up on love but people change " part.
Brian took it over to Burt's house where Burt wrote the chorus. When they went into the studio to record it Burt was mind blown at Brian arranging the harmonies.  He had never seen Brian in his element before and he couldn't get over it

amazing info! thank you

You're Welcome

Yeah this is really fascinating stuff Ray, thanks for sharing it :)

You're welcome , any time !

Ray, your posts today have been incredibly enlightening! Have to share in the thanks to your contributions. Hope to see you around here more often!

You're welcome. I read a few things that were really wrong so it was a good time to respond with some observations about the tour , and facts about the writing and recording process that I have experienced first hand and that I can talk to.

Scott does good work with Brian ; he works really fast , like Brian likes, and Brian loves his lyrics

Oh, good for Brian. They should work together more often, Brian and Scott.
If it makes Brian happy, I'm all for it, and I imagine it would reflect in his work, like it seems to on TLOS.

Gotta keep in mind Brian wrote lyrics on several songs on TWGMTR too

Dear Ray... Thanks so much for stopping by and giving us some useful inside insight...thanks to the search engine on the board I went back and read all of your earlier posts (and the folks who note that you're not here often enough are absolutely right!)...they were extremely informative and filled with exactly the type of positivity that Mike Love would dearly like to have all of the time!

I think most people who've listened to Brian's music enough over the years don't have to be convinced that he's still the centerpiece in the creative process, but it's extremely nice to have your testimony on this!

But the burning question for me is: what the heck does Brian do when the Yankees and the Red Sox are playing each other, particularly in the post-season?? Does he handle what happens as "hey, one of my two teams won"? Or does he have a "favorite favorite"??  ;D

So much great stuff Ray, but this is my favorite part.  I love the image of Brian waiting in the driveway because he can't wait to play his new songs for someone.  So great.

That's his M.O. When he is working; if you are picking him up  he is in the driveway waiting; i think Darian mentions this in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary.  The particular timeframe that culminated in the release of TLOS ; he was up every day at 0500 ready to get on with it. For me ; best summer ever !

Just curious, did Brian want to listen to any other Beach Boys stuff aside from Pet Sounds? It'd be cool to hear he listens to Today or Summer Days here and there  ;D

Thanks for all the information you've put out here, it's very comforting to hear that Brian is in control from someone who's worked with him!

No, I don't work with him ; just friends. Off the top of my head it was Pet Sounds mostly; My Obsession by the Rolling Stones, Carole King Living Room tour, on the way to Scott's; just completed sessions on the way back

Ray: Thank you for shedding the light of truth on this whole thread's scenario before assumptions and innuendo started replacing what actually happened. For everyone: We as fans only see a tiny, usually inconsequential microcosm of these people's lives as reported in public, and how is that any more of a basis to make an assumption or judgement than even basing what someone's life is all about by reading posts on a message board? It's not, but again that's the pitfall of being famous, of being in the public eye. Your own definition is replaced by how your fans wish to define you, on the basis of a few snapshots in time.

***Now to my real point  ;D :
Ray, what you describe from Bacharach is pretty close to the same reaction and response I've read and heard from other prominent artists and others who have worked with Brian Wilson creating or recording music. The man has a truly unique and special *gift*, and talent, which is literally something beautiful to witness as it's happening...at least for other musicians who do the same things musically.

His mind can conceive and process these arrangements, these terrific arrangements, in such a way that he's almost lost in his own musical world for a bit of time - yet can proceed to spill out part after part on a harmony stack in a way other musicians would struggle over or overthink.

It's a natural process that to musicians would be akin to watching Einstein process and solve the most complex equations like he was reading the newspaper, or going fictional here those great scenes in Good Will Hunting where this uneducated kid comes into academia and solves the most complex equations like they're nothing in front of men who devoted their lives to studying such theory and couldn't solve it as easily as a kid who was just wired differently.

The Bacharach interaction reminded me of that notion, as Bacharach himself is a classically trained and very advanced composer and musician who was in awe of how Brian's musical mind worked.

Beautiful stuff you've added, Ray, very inspiring and affirming to this musician and fan.

Cheers!  :)

 I too would like to express appreciation for this interesting perspective.

This thread is no longer about "Jeff Beck Calls His Tour with Brian Wilson A Bit of a Nightmare.," but I don't think the topic itself is going to go away entirely. Jeff has said negative things about his tour and recording with Brian in at least three different interviews now, including one with "Rolling Stone." He was there. They were using his name to get publicity for Brian. They perhaps chose the wrong person, but they did make that choice. Jeff doesn't seem like he wants to stop talking about it.

One thing that occurred to me when reading about Jeff being given parts to play: doesn't Jeff create his own parts, and in fact, the recording they did together was supposed to be a collaboration? It doesn't matter if Brian wrote the parts.  I'm not sure why you'd want a guitar hero like Jeff if he didn't create his own solos, and perhaps they should have taken a try at writing songs together, too.

As for Brian writing every note of music on this latest or the Beach Boys reunion album, that doesn't jibe with what Joe Thomas had said about Brian's projects with him. Joe Thomas has said he, Joe, wrote parts of tunes that were on TWGMTR. Joe said Brian wrote only fragments of songs and Joe patched them together and also contributed his own melody writing. TWGMTR has a number of co-writers.

I'm sure Brian would be more enthusiastic about writing all his own songs and working with his band as he did with TLOS, but he chose not to do that for his latest album, and let someone with a commercial track record co-write the music with him, as he did with "Imagination" as well.

The thread changed when the Beck reports were piggybacked onto other areas of Brian Wilson's musical activities, and it's a good thing someone who was actually there to witness it was *here* to set the record straight before assumptions turned into reality.

Here's another thing to consider with Beck and Brian: They're from different backgrounds musically, and have different working methods. Beck came from a blues background, and is rightfully considered a "guitar hero", placed in that pantheon of (mostly) rock or blues based players. In that style, yes Beck ventured way outside and expanded his styles to include everything from jazz to jazz fusion to rockabilly to whatever else...but at the heart of Beck's style is blues guitar.

And - in blues guitar circles, a new tune is most often created out of a jam, at least where the musical foundation for the lyrics and melody is going to be placed.

Brian's creative style does not come from a band jamming to create a new song. He works on ideas, fragments, sparks of inspiration, then develops it step by step with collaborators or alone, depending on the song.

Then, as he's done since the 60's, the parts or sketches of those parts are given out to the musicians to play. if they want to add or improvise, it is within the frameworks of the songs.

It's a more step-by-step method of creating a song than what Jeff Beck might have been comfortable with. Brian does not "write" a new song by jamming with a band and hitting on good riffs, feeding off what the other players are doing.

That could be one case where two highly skilled and successful musicians simply have different working methods that don't always fit.


It would be like asking BB King to read a full guitar arrangement and play what an arranger has written for him. Basically...it ain't gonna work because that's not who BB King is and not how he makes music. So if you put him in the studio with a Burt Bacharach, Burt could either write exact notes for BB to play and have it turn into a shambles, or he could let BB add his own style to the song on his own terms (as he has done for, what, 70 years? ) and get much more in the way of results.

You are very welcome.  What I find fascinating watching Brian work is how easy it seems to come to him ; an almost simplified yet complex process. I sure as hell can't figure it out , that's for sure. Carole King had a similar reaction when they cut Good Kind of Love and I'm Into Something Good at Scott's ; she was beside herself ; it was great to see.  I liked your metaphor of Good Will Hunting ; I always say that Brian is wired differently than anyone I have ever known.  He could never be a guy punching a time clock. Cheers. R

Beck and Brian always sounded like a very bizarre  and arbitrary combination to me. I can think think of many talented people that I would consider a better match to Brian's music than Jeff Beck. It could've been worse I guess; Beck might have called the tour a "complete nightmare" instead of just a "bit" of one.

Ray, if you're still around, could you confirm that the original mix of the Gershwin album was perfectly acceptable, and that the one released was almost identical ?

Sure Andrew;  I actually prefer the original mix ; I have it in my car.  The mix is slightly different , has a more 60's feel . It was done by Darian and Nicky with input from Brian.  The most pronounced difference to me was a "shimmering " effect in the vocal chorus in "Our Love is Here to Stay" which I love,  and a better feel , in my opinion , on "I Git a Crush On You". Other than that , the Schmitt mix is not much different than the original.  I think the remix idea was political , as Schmitt is on the Grammy committee.   Cheers R

I suppose they wanted to keep the Surf's Up formula, which seemed to work nicely... I.e. Beck performing Brian's melodies. And -just pure speculation- if in the entire year those two collaborated, Brian practically never interacted verbally with Beck, perhaps it means Brian was not interested in Beck or the collaboration. No matter how shy Brian is, things did not work out with Beck.

I want to add my thanks for posting here, Ray :)

Politics aside, imo the Gershwin record is the best sounding album to come out of the BB's various camps since at least probably Beach Boys 85, and possibly MIU before that. Gershwin has a great, natural feel, with a depth to the instrumentation that is lacking especially on Brian's more recent solo stuff. Even something like TLOS has a plasticky upfront feel where there's little room to breathe in the songs.

I'm not denying the original mix of Gershwin was the equal of the Schmitt remix, but if that's the case then why not let Brian, Darian and Nicky mix everything else Brian releases? Just curious.

Great question.  I agree with your assessment of the Gershwin record. Paul Von Mertens and Brian did a great job on the tracks ; they are lush , natural and have the depth you mentioned.  I am pretty sure that Darian, Nicky and Brian did the mix on In the Key of Disney. Just from my vantage point I think that it all revolves around the contracts , who mixes what.  For example , I am convinced that the mix on TWGMTR and the concert CD would have been immeasurably better had those guys done the mix. Darian and Nicky know exactly what Brian wants the thing to sound like , and they work great with him. 

this is one of the best threads to appear on this board. thanks again Ray.

another question:
do you know how much of a hand Brian had in writing the title track of TWGMTR? with so many co-writers, some don't believe that BW was very involved and that his name was tacked on after the song was basically complete. I disagree.

Jeff Beck's turf was never songwriting. What's so bad about about giving him parts to play?

Listen to this (Syreeta - Cause we've ended now as lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWXYc46f8E

And then this (Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IriEq4H1XSU

Now, the interviews... I think it's alright if he wants to vent about the studio project that fell by the wayside, since he invested his time on it and nothing happened. But what good will come from talking about Brian's mental health? It's not like he should be rescued from a Landy situation and he's not gonna get better at this point, that's where he is now. Bad move by Mr. Geoffrey Arnold Beck.

To be honest I was not around during the recording of the Beach Boys album at all ; I remember Brian fooling with that song in 1998 at the Chicago house at the piano ; I certainly remember the title part, the hook, the tempo, the chord changes and him banging on the piano but that's all. And the next time I heard it was the finished track.  I don't think he wrote much , if any , of the lyrics.

Very true. I thought it was Mr. Beck who came off badly in the interview. Brian's been nothing but gracious and complementary about the whole thing.

Lovely that Brian has someone like you in his life, Ray. You sound like a grounded, sensible guy who enjoys the music. And thanks for sharing so much of this with us.

I am sorry to say that I think this is familiar territory for Jeff Beck . Check this out ; sounds like a similar gripe

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/10/24/jeff-beck-on-rod-stewart-he-never-calls/

I know that Brian was blown away by Jeff's playing and has been very vocal about that to anyone who cares to listen. Jeff came into the studio to play on Brian's songs; and wanted direction from Brian on what to play. I just don't think that talking about Brian being mentally ill has anything to do with recording/touring music and it lacks class.

LOve this part thanks so much Ray, I cant wait to be in LA in October!

Completely agree. Thanks for sharing your insights and for being a good friend to Brian and to this board.

The Disney album is the only one i don't have. I didn't get it because i assumed the mix would be a return to the same pre-Gershwin quality, so an album of lifeless-sounding songs that i didn't like to begin with (not a Disney movie fan) didn't appeal to me. However, a decent mix might be worth listening to.

I too blew off the Gershwin and Disney releases until the impending release of That's Why God Made the Radio whetted my appetite for something new, and boy was I ever wrong! These three together are undoubtedly the best "Beach Boys" albums since at least Holland. No, since Summer Days and Summer Nights! And, considering what followed in 1966, I'd say, no I predict, we are gonna be hearing a major, major landmark work when the next one is released. So buckle up your seatbelts! 
 

Thanks for your posts in this thread.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the recording of the GIOMH album if you were around at that point.

I think that Brian is not well served by his people, who repeatedly seem to think the way to jump start his projects is to involve other, hotter named artists (e.g., Elton John,  McCartney, Clapton, and now Jeff Beck), who really aren't artistically compatible with him, yet force collaborations to create a buzz in the marketplace. Honestly, how many times do you return to City Blues for listening pleasure? The breathless announcement and publicity of the studio work with Beck was oddly reminiscent of a similar prediction from the BW Machine of a "rock and roll album" dream collaboration with McCartney that never materialized. Having bought into the Beck hype to the tune of $200 a ticket only to see an oil and water collaboration when I was led to believe I would be witnessing musical magic was a great disappointment, in contrast to the fantastic show by Brian and company I had seen in Dayton only a few months before. I can only conclude that this is all attributable to Brian surrounding himself with well meaning hacks with poor judgment. The guy deserves better.

Thank you so much for your valuable insights! Would you say Brian's creative explosion during that summer was a direct result of the commercial success of Presents SMiLE? Seeing that Brian was always very competitive and driven by commercial success, it's like it gave him the confidence to keep on writing and working. Or is he like that all the time?

Told ya.  (sits back, folds arms, smiles enigmatically into beard)

To give a very slightly alternate perspective on this Jeff Beck issue: I think Beck speaking candidly (whether his observations or comments or justified or even appropriate) speaks to what their collaborations always was. This was not Beck being integrated into the inner circle, or a new “Traveling Wilburys” style supergroup being formed. This was Brian (and Beck) reaching outside of their familiar style to try a new type of collaboration. I think it’s surprising in a great way that Beck has gravitated in any way towards working on Brian’s stuff, and I will also say huge credit goes to whomever in Brian’s camp reached out and was willing to work with Beck. This includes of course Brian who did the actual musical collaborations.

But whether it was Joe Thomas, or somebody else in Brian’s camp, I’m very glad that they opened up to a collaboration (even if a “collaboration” only in someone adding to Brian’s stuff mainly) with someone who they weren’t sure would coddle Brian or only tow the political line and edit what they say in interviews. Now, this may ultimately mean these guys can’t continue to work together a great deal in the future (I dunno, the other BB’s and Brian have said some pretty negative stuff about each other in interviews in past years and can still work together for periods of time anyway; but Beck saying not-so-positive things about Brian’s state probably doesn’t make another collaboration more likely), but I hope they can still salvage what Beck did with Brian, because it simply *has* to sound at least a bit different than the usual Brian solo fare, and I think that could be a good thing (for fans, and certainly might help Brian with critics for anyone that cares about such things).

I don't think working with Beck was a bad idea. He genuinely loves the Beach Boys and Surf's Up was a fine template for what could have been. While I appreciate what Ray is posting here and believe that Brian's not a vegetable, I think things can get very slow while he's working in the studio and situations must be adapted to conform to the mood he's having in a certain week. Apparently Jeff is a moody guy on his own, as we've known for 5 decades. Just different moods.

Ray, thanks for the insight, especially the story of Brian working at the board. 

That really sheds a new light on his behavior / mannerisms.

I was around for the recording of the title track, How Can We Still Be Dancing and City Blues; at Mark Linett's studio; tracks only.  It was fun to observe

IMHO....

you have Jeff Beck, who has admitted to being in awe of Brian and 'The Boys' and a huge fan.....

well there is problem one......... Brian has always worked outside of the box for most of his work..

he doesn't want to work with someone who says, 'tell me Brian what you want'....... Brian wants someone

that has 'ideas'!!!

Yes Jeff may be a great guitar picker.......... well Brian is not a guitarist.......... he's a Piano man....... and has always

worked that way.......... didn't he make a comment somewhere in the past he didn't like a lot of guitars???

but he did like using in his words, 'box guitars' (acoustic's)

and then you put 2 'rock legends' together........ well I think Brian's idea of 'Rock' music is a lot different to probably Jeff's.....

Brian likes 'Spector' and the late 50's rock/doowop period, and the 60's stuff he was working against and listening to....

where as Jeff's music is not that style or influence, so I couldn't imagine Brian owning or knowing much about Jeff's stuff....

but as someone mentioned earlier too, if it were McCartney?  different story..... Carole King?  Bill Flanagan?

Jan Berry? Elton John?  I think the guys would have more in common and more to talk about....

and what does Brian really know about Jeff Beck other than he is a great 'rock' guitarist and is a big Brian Wilson fan???

RickB

Rick, you make some good points.  I can quantify them with an example; the session at Scott's with Carole King was just magical.  The two of them got along famously;they were discussing their songwriting similarities and she was saying she always wanted to be produced by Brian. She was there to sing backgrounds on I'm Into Something Good , but Brian threw everyone a curve ball and had her sing on Good Kind of Love, which she said she liked better than Something Good.  They bounced ideas off each other; amazing to watch.  My #1 and #2 favorite songwriters.  Awesome session. I think Scott may even have some of it on video.  Best moment was the two of them on headphones singing side by side. I just remember thinking " what the hell am I doing here ?"

and I thought afterwards.....

Brian 'Loves!' harmonies and all the 50's jazz era stuff like 'freshmen', 'hi lo's', 'lettermen' 'Del Vikings' 'The Penguins' etc etc

not Hendrix, Clapton and ...... Beck

we have to admit, Brian is someone who lives in the past..... he only listens to the 'oldies' stuff, which is his era, 1950's/60's....

and remember, really, Brian is not the typical 'rock star'....... maybe Beck thought he was a cooler dude to hang out with and share

rock n roll stories or something....... who knows.........

RickB

Jeff is a bit of an ass. Always has been - its his track record but I think hes mellowed considerably. He would really be ranting if this happened 30 yrs ago.

yeah but while Jeff is good.......... he sure is hell no Brian Wilson!!! either!

he is still just a drop in the large puddle........ and I do like Jeff's playin (as a guitar player), BUT!  Brian calibre he ain't....

RickB

 ??? Thats what I want to know!

Should have been me at that session, not you. I know enough about music I could have added my input and you just sat there soaking it all in!
Just damn.

btw- thanks for the great posts to the thread  ;D

 :o -  :)

hey Ray.....

I think you said it well.....
 
Brian and Scott........

well Scott is a music fan but as admitted, he did know all of Brian's treasures and did not worship him as a 'fan' so to speak.....

I think he says that in the Smile DVD somewhere.......

and as we have, like Brian and Van Dyke, the Brian and Scotty Bennett work paid off great....  

right down to the home studio setup that obviously made Brian comfortable and probably not having Scott say 'hey Bri, let's try

and do this Beach Boys thing'.........

I don't know, but I do go by the interviews by the foiks around Brian and Brian himself..

and as they say 'opposite's attract'.......... which has Always worked for Brian Wilson..

RickB

At the M&G, Brian actually didn't even turn around when a young teenage girl cried from being in his presence. He didn't even move or blink.

Jeff was very nice, and at least said hi to me.

I don't think Brian is fit to tour.

Well, Jeff Beck is about to be classified right above Michael Love in the "assholes" department.

I think what it comes down to is Brian's just hard to work with.  One of the reasons I can't hate on Mike... I don't even know if I've ever read Mike being as blunt as Jeff Beck is in this little snippet.  If you've ever been around someone who's very socially awkward, it's kind of off putting.  I don't think Brian means to come off that way and it's different with everybody... and he probably really does respect Jeff and enjoy his music, but for whatever reason he just couldn't give Beck the time of day.

Maybe that kind of reaction freaks Brian out and withdrawing is his way of dealing with it?

You mean Brian is someone who lives further in the past than Jeff Beck? Beck might draw on different music from the past than Brian does = though some of it it is obviously the same.

Actually, he makes a lot of points........ a LOT of points! .......... ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. ::) Back to the real discussion.

Are there any interviews with Carole King where she talks about working with Brian? Sounds like her impression of BW would be much more positive than Beck's.

I read something similar when someone approached him at a restaurant. Nada! But later he/ she realized they had spoken to him on his deaf side. Maybe it was the case here. 

Brian is what he is: I've been in his company when he's a relaxed and hugely funny guy, and I've seen him very obviously wanting to be somewhere, anywhere else, and zoning out. And yes, some of it is a put on, even now. There's a lot of talk about the people who have manipulated Brian down the years, from Murry to Joe Thomas via Mike, Landy & Melinda (to name just the five names most often cited, rightly or not), but he's no mean manipulator himself. Am I denying there's also a considerable degree of damage ? No, of course not: just that, as with the rest of the BB cosmos, nothing is ever black and white, more 500 shades of gray.

Yes, when my brother and I met Brian backstage in 2005, Brian was walking to the tour bus, and my brother was on his right, trying to get Brian's attention, and almost got trampled on (Brian's a very tall guy, as we know). I reminded my brother that Brian's deaf in one ear.

Exactly, precisely and exactly some more.

And though it's nitpicking, I would point out that -- based on publicly available sources -- Murry and Landy are at one end of a spectrum, and Mike, Joe and Melinda are at another. There's a difference between pressuring someone to make artistically debatable choices and physically abusing him.

Brian is a loner who just wants to be left alone, people will never understand that

He's an introvert in a extrovertes business

I hope he likes kids.

;D



this answers the question I hope?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS3y8nDDpVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgQXW9rOiN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IQ-2qFCSJA


isn't there one called 'thank god for little children'?



nah, I think Brian's clean... just having poor judgement with titles and lyrics occasionally

Some interesting discussion here.

For those of us who have followed Brian Wilson, from afar in my case, there are no surprises here.  However, I can empathize with Jeff Beck, seeking a little camaraderie and/or encouragement from someone he admires greatly and not getting anything, and thus feeling put off, confused, and uncomfortable.

Jeff's been around the block and is a rock musician by trade.  I'm positive Brian's not the weirdest guy who's offended him over the years...

The Beautiful Dreamer documentary seems to show his different sides very well don't you think?

I feel compelled here to jump into this discussion here as it drives me goofy when quoting these publicly available sources, Melinda Wilson is lumped together with Murray and Landy ; the two most nefarious characters in the entire BB/BW universe , as being manipulative of Brian; it is unreasonable that she is so unfairly maligned ; especially given her role in getting Brian away from Landy.  She is very involved in Brian's career; but no more in fact than Jacquie Love, MaryAnne Jardine and Carrie Marks are with Mike, Alan and David; and those three guys combined are not as complicated to deal with as Brian, you can take that to the bank.

In the last 15 years we have gotten off the top of my head; Pet Sounds live, SMiLE live, BWPS live and disc, TLOS live and disc, Gershwin, The Queen's Jubilee, Kennedy Center Honors, C50 ; she was very much instrumental in all of this being accomplished, but nobody really knows that. Does she push Brian to focus and work up to his abilities; hell yes....and then he thanks her for it when things are done to his satisfaction. I , for one, am thrilled with all of this output; but without her encouragement who the hell knows what he would have done; certainly not all of that .

I have seen her talking to folks who post on this board; remembering their names , always gracious to them. I have been with her in the lobby of The Beacon in NYC , and Royal Festival Hall in London , having a beer and chatting with some of the fans.  But that kind of stuff is off radar.

Melinda ain't Mother Teresa , and I am not trying to paint her as such; but I have known her for over twenty years and some of the shite that now passes for "fact" just doesn't jive with the real person. But she loves Brian and is extremely protective of him; and thats a good thing.

The funny part of this is that, as Andrew alluded to above,  nobody in the galaxy is a better master manipulator than Brian; and there is probably nobody he manipulates better than Melinda .

Sorry to have gotten on my soapbox ; Brian lives a very comfortable life now , and MW is a large part of that....and the only good thing I can say about Murray and Landy is that they are still dead.


Cheers.  Ray

I believe most of the people on this board realize that Melinda is a good woman and prob. the reason Brian's still with us.  Long live Melinda!

You're a lovely man, Ray Lawlor.

The sense I got from Wirestone’s post was just the opposite, that Melinda (and Mike and Joe) are the *other* end of the spectrum compared to Landy and Murry.

I also don’t think there’s much of any dedicated fan who *doesn’t* understand that Melinda is instrumental in getting projects going (in many different ways).

The weirdness that has always surrounded Brian (and to a lesser degree this entire group), and the understanding of that weirdness, has always and must always work both ways. As fans, we can only surely understand the tip of the iceberg of the precarious nature of having to deal with the things these people have to deal with, things both in and out of their control.

At the same time, these people, whether Brian or those around him or the other band members and their associates, all have to understand how things appear to those on the outside. They also have to realize that for every time that a “fan” just doesn’t “truly understand” the “real story”, there may also be times when they are living in a vacuum created by fame and money and weirdness and ego and insulation, and maybe sometimes there is just weird, f-ed up stuff going on behind the scenes. Weird, f-ed up stuff goes on behind the scenes in the mundane lives of fans, so it happens with everybody. Sometimes, and I stress only sometimes, fame and money and all of that make those f-ed up things exponentially more f-ed up and weird.

This is true.

As far as we know Melinda hasn't played a huge role in spreading AIDS across Africa.

She also, to my knowledge doesn't leave people dying in corridors with no pain relief.

I'm guessing that falls to Mike and Bruce not doing M&G's after their shows? 

There is some proof that Brian calls the shots at least part of the time with the fact that Joe Thomas was re-hired. Didn't Melinda sue Joe? Joe even sued her back. But Brian put Melinda in a corner by calling Joe back and wanting to use songs he wrote during the "Imagination" project, ones he specifically wanted for the Beach Boys. Joe has continued the relationship with Brian. I don't like Joe or his use of autotune, but apparently Brian does.

He referred to Mother Theresa who forced poor people to suffer to death.

Interesting.  I made a post, and some of what I wrote was reworded by I suppose a moderator, but there's no notation that it was edited.  I wonder how much of the comments we read on here have been rewritten?  It's like a conspiracy theory or something.  Craziness. 

I'm pretty sure edits by the mods appear as "Last Edit: at (date) by (mod)" - the same as if you had edited but with the mods name listed.

New automatic word filter? (certain words considered derogatory programmed to automatically be replaced by another word)?

Looks like Jeff Beck has his next tour set. Tickets go on sale today for ZZ Top and Jeff Beck in Atlanta on Sept. 6th.

Ive seen em both. never together though.

I think the ZZ crowd will dominate this show - Jeff better start growing his beard to blend in.  :p

I'd guess.