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Author Topic: A "Wild(er) Honey" in W-I-D-E Stereo  (Read 7352 times)
SloopJohnB52
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« on: April 27, 2014, 08:10:57 PM »

One of my favorite Beach Boys songs, Wild Honey in my opinion has never been properly mixed into stereo.  Like Good Vibrations, it finally got its "official" stereo release in 2012 and was a terrible disappointment.  Narrow, shrill and compressed, it sounded to me more like reprocessed (aka "fake") stereo than the real thing.  Using the available session recordings from the SOT boot "Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 19", I managed to extract 8 distinct tracks: lead vocal, backing vocals, piano, organ, guitar, theremin, drums, and bongos (only the tambourine could not be isolated - here it remains locked up with the guitar).  Remixing the song from scratch with a wide-stereo 60's-era separation, I tried to remain faithful to the original mono single's arrangement while revealing many interesting details previously buried in that dense 1967 mix - (hopefully) much like what was done on the Beatles Yellow Submarine Songtrack remix album in 1999.  Comments and suggestions will be most welcome!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1pova4dqsqx277/Wild%20Honey%20%28Wide%20Stereo%20Mix%20by%20JBeneven%29.wav



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Micha
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 01:54:46 AM »

Fascinating that you could extract those distinct track! I think your mix is well balanced. Only those acoustic guitar fills sound like they don't belong, you know, the ones that are a bit closer to the middle but change position with each strum.

Say... can you isolate vocal tracks from complete mixes too? You know, like from BWPS tracks such as Holidays and Song For Children?
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 03:11:37 AM »



Thanks for this, very interesting!
Would you be willing to share the isolated instruments tracks too?  I would love to play around with them myself.


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c-man
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 03:40:50 AM »

Pretty good...but the drums should be louder! Smiley
Also, you don't mention the bass in your list of discrete track elements...and there's little of it in the mix - how come?
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 07:26:22 AM »

Interesting, and way better done than most of these fan mixes... but it's very light on the bottom end.
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 09:52:47 AM »

I like the wide, wide stereo, but c-man and Andrew are right--drums and bass are just way too muffled here. Also it sounds like Carl's lead needs to be more upfront and panned more to the center.

I think you're definitely on the right track here (sorry for that bad pun!). Seriously, a great stereo mix of WH is worth as much tweaking as you're willing to give it...
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 10:34:14 AM »

Nice job, main criticism is the jagged-sounding acoustic guitar bits shifting from left to right.
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2014, 10:46:22 AM »

Very nice. Thanks for sharing!
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SloopJohnB52
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 11:15:26 AM »

Fascinating that you could extract those distinct track! I think your mix is well balanced. Only those acoustic guitar fills sound like they don't belong, you know, the ones that are a bit closer to the middle but change position with each strum.
Nice job, main criticism is the jagged-sounding acoustic guitar bits shifting from left to right.

I thought that shifting the guitar fills between both channels made it sound more interesting and dynamic, but perhaps it's a bit too gimmicky.  What do the others think?

Thanks for this, very interesting!
Would you be willing to share the isolated instruments tracks too?  I would love to play around with them myself.

If you'd like, I'll prepare a "Wild Honey Toolkit" in the next few days containing the raw extracted instruments and vocals.

Pretty good...but the drums should be louder! Smiley
Also, you don't mention the bass in your list of discrete track elements...and there's little of it in the mix - how come?
Interesting, and way better done than most of these fan mixes... but it's very light on the bottom end.

Definitely a problem I have to address.  Unfortunately, there was no bass part to extract.  I think they EQ'd the guitar and/or the piano to create a greater bottom end in the original mix.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

I like the wide, wide stereo, but c-man and Andrew are right--drums and bass are just way too muffled here. Also it sounds like Carl's lead needs to be more upfront and panned more to the center.
I think you're definitely on the right track here (sorry for that bad pun!). Seriously, a great stereo mix of WH is worth as much tweaking as you're willing to give it...

Carl's lead vocals ARE centered, and at approximately the same level as the original mix.  I'll go back to my reference sources (1990 and 2001 Two-Fers, 1993 GV Box, 50 Big Ones and MIC) and see whether you're right about the level.  I've spent a lot of time on this mix and would like to get it as good as possible.  Thanks for the suggestions!

« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 09:25:23 PM by SloopJohnB52 » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2014, 11:22:19 AM »

I really like it! Gives it a different feel... I don't mind the constantly shifting guitar too much, though it is a bit gimmicky and could be a more fluent. A toolkit would be lovely.  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 12:45:38 PM »

Nice one sloopjohnB52 ! So youre doing the next BB project  Grin Keep them coming
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 06:02:15 PM »

I agree with every comment made here, with the exception of the one about Carl's vocal--that sounds just fine to my ears. 

Man, if you can crank up some bass, and stabilize that wandering guitar, you've got a winner here!  I love that wide stereo, and I wish the 2012 mixes were more like that!  Thanks for sharing this!
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2014, 06:56:57 PM »

Nice job! Hearing the various parts more discretely really brought a new found appreciation for the song. So many nuances that were previously buried in the mix - it clarifies the musicianship and quality that was more easily missed (at least for me) in the original mix.
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2014, 07:55:26 PM »

Don't care for the back and forth between channels stuff. Just keep everything fixed. Wide channel sounds good!
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2014, 09:24:07 PM »

While on the topic of things going back and forth, does anyone else think the tambourine in the "she don't know" section in You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone would benefit from alternating channels? I just find that refrain, lyrically and musically has a purposed sense of confusion about it and if the tambourine was mixed to have an unsettled home in the stereo spectrum, it would have really driven that feeling of unsureness home.
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 11:26:06 PM »

I thought that shifting the guitar fills between both channels made it sound more interesting and dynamic, but perhaps it's a bit too gimmicky.  What do the others think?

Personally I like it, and I think it provides dynamics


If you'd like, I'll prepare a "Wild Honey Toolkit" in the next few days containing the raw extracted instruments and vocals.

I'd absolutely love that!  Thank you in advance!
Also, what kind of technique did you use for the extractions?


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SloopJohnB52
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 11:54:13 PM »

Also, what kind of technique did you use for the extractions?

I got very good results with little or no artifacts using the Center Channel Extractor in Adobe Audition 3.0

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SloopJohnB52
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 01:30:40 PM »

The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip


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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 01:49:31 PM »

Amazing! Thanks.  Rock!
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 03:13:31 PM »

Loved it....thanks for working it out!
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 04:29:14 AM »

A very enjoyable listen. And thanks for the toolkit!
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 05:23:01 AM »

The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip




Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   Grin


I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3





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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 09:45:46 AM »

The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip




Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   Grin


I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3
I like how the track sounds, but Carl's lead and Mike's backup vocals are way too far out front. Good job, nonetheless. Smiley
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SloopJohnB52
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2014, 11:00:43 AM »

Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   Grin
I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3

Pretty good, considering  how little time it took for you to complete it!
Comparing it to the released mono version, the tempo is a bit slow and the pitch needs to be tweeked.  The theremin definitely needs some reverb to match the original mix.  I like the vocals being louder than on mine.

I'm working on a new mix which will have an improved bottom end, stabilized guitar fills, and more up front vocals.


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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 12:21:49 PM »


I like how the track sounds, but Carl's lead and Mike's backup vocals are way too far out front. Good job, nonetheless. Smiley

Thanks!
Mike's vocals are loud and up front on purpose, I always loved his little part and I wanted it to be more audible.
About Carl's, yes I could try to make it sit in the mix better.  Thanks!




Pretty good, considering  how little time it took for you to complete it!
Comparing it to the released mono version, the tempo is a bit slow and the pitch needs to be tweeked.  The theremin definitely needs some reverb to match the original mix.  I like the vocals being louder than on mine.

I'm working on a new mix which will have an improved bottom end, stabilized guitar fills, and more up front vocals.


Thanks!
Ah, forgot to mention that I'm not using the original mix as reference. I'm simply doing a mix that sounds good to me.
But yes, good point about reverb on the theremin.

Yeah, I also plan to stabilize the guitar fills, as at the moment they are very quick & dirty.
I increased tempo and pitch of 2% cause sounded good to me but I have actually not compared it to the original at all.  What % should it be increased to match the original?

But thanks again for the multi-tracks!
If they would only release a bunch of songs in multi-track format...    Roll Eyes




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