The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => The Beach Boys Media => Topic started by: SloopJohnB52 on April 27, 2014, 08:10:57 PM



Title: A "Wild(er) Honey" in W-I-D-E Stereo
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on April 27, 2014, 08:10:57 PM
One of my favorite Beach Boys songs, Wild Honey in my opinion has never been properly mixed into stereo.  Like Good Vibrations, it finally got its "official" stereo release in 2012 and was a terrible disappointment.  Narrow, shrill and compressed, it sounded to me more like reprocessed (aka "fake") stereo than the real thing.  Using the available session recordings from the SOT boot "Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 19", I managed to extract 8 distinct tracks: lead vocal, backing vocals, piano, organ, guitar, theremin, drums, and bongos (only the tambourine could not be isolated - here it remains locked up with the guitar).  Remixing the song from scratch with a wide-stereo 60's-era separation, I tried to remain faithful to the original mono single's arrangement while revealing many interesting details previously buried in that dense 1967 mix - (hopefully) much like what was done on the Beatles Yellow Submarine Songtrack remix album in 1999.  Comments and suggestions will be most welcome!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1pova4dqsqx277/Wild%20Honey%20%28Wide%20Stereo%20Mix%20by%20JBeneven%29.wav





Title: Re: A \
Post by: Micha on April 28, 2014, 01:54:46 AM
Fascinating that you could extract those distinct track! I think your mix is well balanced. Only those acoustic guitar fills sound like they don't belong, you know, the ones that are a bit closer to the middle but change position with each strum.

Say... can you isolate vocal tracks from complete mixes too? You know, like from BWPS tracks such as Holidays and Song For Children?


Title: Re: A \
Post by: STE on April 28, 2014, 03:11:37 AM


Thanks for this, very interesting!
Would you be willing to share the isolated instruments tracks too?  I would love to play around with them myself.




Title: Re: A \
Post by: c-man on April 28, 2014, 03:40:50 AM
Pretty good...but the drums should be louder! :)
Also, you don't mention the bass in your list of discrete track elements...and there's little of it in the mix - how come?


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on April 28, 2014, 07:26:22 AM
Interesting, and way better done than most of these fan mixes... but it's very light on the bottom end.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Don Malcolm on April 28, 2014, 09:52:47 AM
I like the wide, wide stereo, but c-man and Andrew are right--drums and bass are just way too muffled here. Also it sounds like Carl's lead needs to be more upfront and panned more to the center.

I think you're definitely on the right track here (sorry for that bad pun!). Seriously, a great stereo mix of WH is worth as much tweaking as you're willing to give it...


Title:
Post by: zachrwolfe on April 28, 2014, 10:34:14 AM


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Rocker on April 28, 2014, 10:46:22 AM
Very nice. Thanks for sharing!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on April 28, 2014, 11:15:26 AM
Fascinating that you could extract those distinct track! I think your mix is well balanced. Only those acoustic guitar fills sound like they don't belong, you know, the ones that are a bit closer to the middle but change position with each strum.
Nice job, main criticism is the jagged-sounding acoustic guitar bits shifting from left to right.

I thought that shifting the guitar fills between both channels made it sound more interesting and dynamic, but perhaps it's a bit too gimmicky.  What do the others think?

Thanks for this, very interesting!
Would you be willing to share the isolated instruments tracks too?  I would love to play around with them myself.

If you'd like, I'll prepare a "Wild Honey Toolkit" in the next few days containing the raw extracted instruments and vocals.

Pretty good...but the drums should be louder! :)
Also, you don't mention the bass in your list of discrete track elements...and there's little of it in the mix - how come?
Interesting, and way better done than most of these fan mixes... but it's very light on the bottom end.

Definitely a problem I have to address.  Unfortunately, there was no bass part to extract.  I think they EQ'd the guitar and/or the piano to create a greater bottom end in the original mix.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

I like the wide, wide stereo, but c-man and Andrew are right--drums and bass are just way too muffled here. Also it sounds like Carl's lead needs to be more upfront and panned more to the center.
I think you're definitely on the right track here (sorry for that bad pun!). Seriously, a great stereo mix of WH is worth as much tweaking as you're willing to give it...

Carl's lead vocals ARE centered, and at approximately the same level as the original mix.  I'll go back to my reference sources (1990 and 2001 Two-Fers, 1993 GV Box, 50 Big Ones and MIC) and see whether you're right about the level.  I've spent a lot of time on this mix and would like to get it as good as possible.  Thanks for the suggestions!



Title: Re: A \
Post by: Dudd on April 28, 2014, 11:22:19 AM
I really like it! Gives it a different feel... I don't mind the constantly shifting guitar too much, though it is a bit gimmicky and could be a more fluent. A toolkit would be lovely.  ;D


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Dutchie on April 28, 2014, 12:45:38 PM
Nice one sloopjohnB52 ! So youre doing the next BB project  ;D Keep them coming


Title: Re: A \
Post by: sockittome on April 28, 2014, 06:02:15 PM
I agree with every comment made here, with the exception of the one about Carl's vocal--that sounds just fine to my ears. 

Man, if you can crank up some bass, and stabilize that wandering guitar, you've got a winner here!  I love that wide stereo, and I wish the 2012 mixes were more like that!  Thanks for sharing this!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Gregg on April 28, 2014, 06:56:57 PM
Nice job! Hearing the various parts more discretely really brought a new found appreciation for the song. So many nuances that were previously buried in the mix - it clarifies the musicianship and quality that was more easily missed (at least for me) in the original mix.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Mikie on April 28, 2014, 07:55:26 PM
Don't care for the back and forth between channels stuff. Just keep everything fixed. Wide channel sounds good!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Quzi on April 28, 2014, 09:24:07 PM
While on the topic of things going back and forth, does anyone else think the tambourine in the "she don't know" section in You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone would benefit from alternating channels? I just find that refrain, lyrically and musically has a purposed sense of confusion about it and if the tambourine was mixed to have an unsettled home in the stereo spectrum, it would have really driven that feeling of unsureness home.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: STE on April 28, 2014, 11:26:06 PM
I thought that shifting the guitar fills between both channels made it sound more interesting and dynamic, but perhaps it's a bit too gimmicky.  What do the others think?

Personally I like it, and I think it provides dynamics


If you'd like, I'll prepare a "Wild Honey Toolkit" in the next few days containing the raw extracted instruments and vocals.

I'd absolutely love that!  Thank you in advance!
Also, what kind of technique did you use for the extractions?




Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on April 28, 2014, 11:54:13 PM
Also, what kind of technique did you use for the extractions?

I got very good results with little or no artifacts using the Center Channel Extractor in Adobe Audition 3.0



Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on April 29, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip




Title: Re: A \
Post by: Dudd on April 29, 2014, 01:49:31 PM
Amazing! Thanks.  :rock


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Peter Reum on April 29, 2014, 03:13:31 PM
Loved it....thanks for working it out!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Natural E on April 30, 2014, 04:29:14 AM
A very enjoyable listen. And thanks for the toolkit!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: STE on April 30, 2014, 05:23:01 AM
The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip




Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   ;D


I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3)







Title: Re: A
Post by: drbeachboy on April 30, 2014, 09:45:46 AM
The Wild Honey "Toolkit" contains all the raw extractions with no pitch or tempo correction and no added effects.
(Note: the guitar required two extractions, the first yielding guitar plus full percussion, and the second suppressing the drums & bongos. The tambourine could not be isolated)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9m39qgc5yr8eyuu/Wild_Honey_Extractions.zip




Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   ;D


I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3)
I like how the track sounds, but Carl's lead and Mike's backup vocals are way too far out front. Good job, nonetheless. :)


Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on April 30, 2014, 11:00:43 AM
Thank you so much!  They are very clean, great job!  I'm gonna have so much fun with these!!   ;D
I made a quick mix with those tracks, what do you all think?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20483729/BB/Beach%20Boys%20-%20Wild%20Honey%20%28STE%20mix%20v1.0%29.mp3)

Pretty good, considering  how little time it took for you to complete it!
Comparing it to the released mono version, the tempo is a bit slow and the pitch needs to be tweeked.  The theremin definitely needs some reverb to match the original mix.  I like the vocals being louder than on mine.

I'm working on a new mix which will have an improved bottom end, stabilized guitar fills, and more up front vocals.




Title: Re: A \
Post by: STE on May 01, 2014, 12:21:49 PM

I like how the track sounds, but Carl's lead and Mike's backup vocals are way too far out front. Good job, nonetheless. :)

Thanks!
Mike's vocals are loud and up front on purpose, I always loved his little part and I wanted it to be more audible.
About Carl's, yes I could try to make it sit in the mix better.  Thanks!




Pretty good, considering  how little time it took for you to complete it!
Comparing it to the released mono version, the tempo is a bit slow and the pitch needs to be tweeked.  The theremin definitely needs some reverb to match the original mix.  I like the vocals being louder than on mine.

I'm working on a new mix which will have an improved bottom end, stabilized guitar fills, and more up front vocals.


Thanks!
Ah, forgot to mention that I'm not using the original mix as reference. I'm simply doing a mix that sounds good to me.
But yes, good point about reverb on the theremin.

Yeah, I also plan to stabilize the guitar fills, as at the moment they are very quick & dirty.
I increased tempo and pitch of 2% cause sounded good to me but I have actually not compared it to the original at all.  What % should it be increased to match the original?

But thanks again for the multi-tracks!
If they would only release a bunch of songs in multi-track format...    ::)






Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on May 02, 2014, 12:39:18 PM
I increased tempo and pitch of 2% cause sounded good to me but I have actually not compared it to the original at all.  What % should it be increased to match the original?

The extractions are all 34 cents flat and run about 2.5 sec longer than the original.  I increased the pitch by 34 and decreased the length to .9846 to match the released version.



Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on June 14, 2014, 12:12:11 PM
Wild Honey Remix #2 Update:

A tastier Wild Honey mix (with a separate bass track extracted from the 2012 release and numerous tweaks) is in the works and should be available soon - stay tuned!





Title: Re: A \
Post by: Dudd on June 14, 2014, 12:18:10 PM
Can't wait!


Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on July 20, 2014, 01:23:13 PM
Based on the various comments I received, here's a punchier mix with numerous tweaks, including:

 - an improved bottom end with louder drums and an added bass track (extracted from the 2013 release)
 - more up-front vocals
 - toned down the shifting guitar fills

Hope you enjoy it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqe5h99rikam411/Wild%20Honey%20%28Wide%20stereo%20mix%202%20by%20JBeneven%29.wav


http://www.mediafire.com/listen/phwo81w7hqd0ju5/Wild_Honey_(Wide_Stereo_Mix_2_by_JBeneven).wav




Title: Re: A \
Post by: bringahorseinhere? on July 20, 2014, 01:37:17 PM
Cool!!!! 

sounds great!!!....... maybe some post mastering needed (to my ears)....

but I love what you have done!  great 'different' mix and much more open.....

I never thought of this as a 'Great' song.... but I'm diggin it more than ever now

RickB


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Ray Lawlor on July 20, 2014, 01:43:29 PM
Based on the various comments I received, here's a punchier mix with numerous tweaks, including:

 - an improved bottom end with louder drums and an added bass track (extracted from the 2013 release)
 - more up-front vocals
 - toned down the shifting guitar fills

Hope you enjoy it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqe5h99rikam411/Wild%20Honey%20%28Wide%20stereo%20mix%202%20by%20JBeneven%29.wav




I think it sounds great ; look forward to more !


Title: Re: A \
Post by: sockittome on July 20, 2014, 02:54:19 PM
Good job, Sloop!  A vast improvement over your first attempt, and definitely more exciting (and more of an authentic 60s sounding stereo mix) than the MiC mix!  Keep up the good work. 


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Rocker on July 25, 2014, 02:53:51 PM
Cool work! Thanks for sharing!

Never heard Dennis' voice in the backing vocals before that clear.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on July 25, 2014, 05:23:14 PM
Thanks for all the positive comments! 
I may attempt a similar wide-stereo mix of Do It Again if there's enough material to work with.




Title: Re: A \
Post by: leggo of my ego on July 29, 2014, 06:05:06 PM
Somebody tell me why the zip/ sound file turns into html when I try to download it??

AAll  I get is a stupid pop up video window - why do you guys use sh*t hosting like Mediafire?

oh yeah , its free  :lol


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Rocker on August 02, 2014, 05:20:23 AM
Thanks for all the positive comments! 
I may attempt a similar wide-stereo mix of Do It Again if there's enough material to work with.





Is there anything you can do with "Here comes the night" off "Wild honey"? Not necessarily a stereo mix but maybe an instrumental version or something?


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Generation42 on August 02, 2014, 07:05:38 PM
Based on the various comments I received, here's a punchier mix with numerous tweaks, including:

 - an improved bottom end with louder drums and an added bass track (extracted from the 2013 release)
 - more up-front vocals
 - toned down the shifting guitar fills

Hope you enjoy it!
Sounds fab!

Listening to this second mix of yours is perhaps the most I've ever enjoyed this number.

Well done!

Thanks.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: Rocker on February 09, 2015, 11:22:06 AM
I don't know if this was posted before somewhere but I just came across this on youtube. The complete Wild Honey album in "stereo":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7CwS6-MzOI


Title: Re: A \
Post by: cube_monkey on May 29, 2017, 07:52:34 PM
Thanks for doing the work of extracting these tracks!

I am having so much fun mixing this.  Its interesting to hear the parts, especially the lead vocals isolated.


Title: Re: A \
Post by: SloopJohnB52 on June 04, 2017, 12:25:32 PM
You're welcome!  I'm surprised they're still available for downloading.