VDP today on NPR said.....

[guitarfool2002]

Has VDP ever been a part of a bona fide hit record, and if so, more than one?

Bona fide hit record as in a top-ten smash? Not quite, but he was involved in some top 40 singles that either charted before or around "The Smile Era" or singles that got a second life through compilations like "Nuggets" and the like.










The single "Come To The Sunshine" as covered by Harper's Bizarre (featuring future star producer Ted Templemann) did get airplay in 1967 on AM top-40 stations, while it wasn't a big hit per se. The original release by Van Dyke himself got caught up in some corporate stuff going on at MGM involving VDP's manager David Anderle and Danny Hutton...Van Dyke's single was a "Sunshine" song ready to release before "Good Day Sunshine", "Sunshine Superman", etc. riffed on the sunshine theme in 66-67, but MGM left it on the shelf for too long after Anderle had it ready for them. They did similar things to Danny Hutton's singles too, apparently holding them back too long for release.

Note the "Colours" single too, while it wasn't a smash hit single it did get played on jukeboxes and less often on radio, but just as important it did generate a buzz.

And note too the presence of Lenny Waronker on these early VDP-involved projects, he really believed in Van Dyke's work and that continued well into the future as far as releases and deals and jobs and whatnot.

[urbanite]

I don't know Van Dyke Parks, I've read lots of things he's said here and in other publications.  He seems like one of those guys that has a bit of a difficult personality and a whopper of an ego, and I think it irritates him that lesser musical types have had tremendous commercial success (as in hit records) whereas he has not been so successful in that regard.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

And note too the presence of Lenny Waronker on these early VDP-involved projects

I think this is a key point, since it was Waronker who helped VDP get a deal to produce an album at Warner Brothers (Song Cycle, that is), as well as his job there.  VDP's pre-Smile work with Waronker indicates that he does not, in fact, owe his whole career to Brian Wilson.

[KittyKat]

If Van Dyke had written more pop songs in the mold of "Come to the Sunshine" and demo'd them to be recorded by the right acts, he could have had a more commercially successful songwriting career. However, those types of pop songs, apart from the oddball lyrics, are more "Eisenhower era" than anything the Beach Boys ever did. Van Dyke himself was not that hip musically, because he's not rock'n'roll.

[Orange Crate Art]

I don't know Van Dyke Parks, I've read lots of things he's said here and in other publications.  He seems like one of those guys that has a bit of a difficult personality and a whopper of an ego, and I think it irritates him that lesser musical types have had tremendous commercial success (as in hit records) whereas he has not been so successful in that regard.

That's how I see it too.

[Cam Mott]

Number Nine went to #20 in Phoenix on Feb. 18, 1966.

[Ron]

Has VDP ever been a part of a bona fide hit record, and if so, more than one?

VDP is one of the artists that Bougie people want to act like is a genius and to bougie people commercial success is nothing more than a sign that something is appreciated by the stupid, ignorant, unwashed masses.  That's the only way they can subjectively claim that somebody like VDP is better in any possible way than Britney Spears, who... objectively.... is better in every possible way than VDP.

So don't bring up a VDP wasn't commercially successful argument because anybody who's a fan of VDP doesn't care about commercial success. 

[Ron]

I just can't believe that there wasn't some sort of intentional statement being made by the unique credits for Caroline, No + Getting Hungry. I don't think I'm reading too much into it - there was something that made those decisions actually happen.

I know that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but these credits don't strike me as arbitrary decisions made just because those songs mainly (or only) featured either just Brian or just Brian + Mike.

If I were Mike or one of the other guys, i would have felt threatened.  They were obviously trying to test the waters, as far as seeing if a solo Brian Wilson would work.


In 1958 Jerry Butler wrote and sang lead on "Your Precious Love" with the Impressions.  It was one of the biggest hits of the year, it wasn't long the record company was BEGGING him to start a solo career.  Basically Curtis Mayfield told him to go ahead because they would make more money without him, Jerry hired Curtis as his band leader, etc. they spread it out and made more money between all of them. 

Somebody at Capitol was thinking something similar, i'm sure. 

[Ron]

Or did something happen between 2004 and 2011 to alienate VDP from the Brian/Beach Boys camp?  

The usual suspects were hinting around on here, around that time, that essentially VDP was pissed and threw a hissy fit and declined to be a part of the book at all.  Of course they asked him, either he didn't like the money involved or was pissed at Brian. 


Interestingly enough, you can trace the 'bad blood', at least publicly, as none of us have any idea what happened privately, to Brian's "lucky Old Sun" album.  VDP wrote the lyrics for "Live Let Live" and it had kind of an environmental theme to it.  Brian changed the lyrics and made them less political..... That seems to be around the time that they had a falling out.

I'm sure it wasn't specifically about that song, but something happened around then.   Didn't somebody even quote Brian as saying that VDP was an asshole?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think Brian said he wad a "butthole"

[Ron]

If memory serves VDP was pissed that Brian was reuniting with the Beach Boys. 


I'm a big wresting fan.  I'm used to seeing this type of behavior where 60 year old former pro wrestlers hold grudges and talk trash about each other and claim they're going to beat each other up if they run into each other.  Seeing Van Dyke Parks and Mike Love do the rock version of it is a little unsettling....

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If memory serves VDP was pissed that Brian was reuniting with the Beach Boys. 


I'm a big wresting fan.  I'm used to seeing this type of behavior where 60 year old former pro wrestlers hold grudges and talk trash about each other and claim they're going to beat each other up if they run into each other.  Seeing Van Dyke Parks and Mike Love do the rock version of it is a little unsettling....

I wonder if it pisses VDP off that Mike could write all those antiquated, Eisenhower era lyrics and score major hits, then go and write things like Good Vibrations: score a major hit, then go write things like Big Sur, All This Is
That, the Wild Honey stuff, that fans like us love and obsess over.....

[Mikie]

I still like this story - from the New York Times - Van Dyke Parks:

"Many years later, when Terry Melcher wanted to take the song 'Kokomo' to the tropical islands, he called me and wanted to use my Rolodex, so to speak. So, I brought some great   musician friends -- people who'd played with Sinatra, Fitzgerald, Cecil Taylor -- to play with me on that session. I was paid well for my work, although it was a nonunion session -- no hospitalization, no dental, nothing extra if it went   commercial. The Beach Boys, after all, were Republicans -- unions weren't something to mention to them. We weren't dealing with Studs Terkel. We were dealing with Bruce Johnston and Mike Love, who'd become the entity known as the Beach Boys. Of course, the song went to number one, and Mike Love always made a very big deal out of the fact that it was made without Brian Wilson. And that was always very alarming to me because beyond the Beach Boys' beautiful music, my allegiance has always been to Brian Wilson, who hired me years ago and told me he'd give me 50 percent of anything we wrote together. He said that speaking from his throne at a time when I was nobody. Isn't that the sign of a marvelous person?"

Parks recalls he saw Love one final time when Melcher called him to Monterey to play synthesizer on the Beach Boys' final album, recorded without Brian, 1992's dreadful Summer in Paradise. A neighbor offered to fly the musician to Monterey in his one-engine plane if Parks agreed to cover gas and other expenses. When he got there, Love was meditating in Melcher's living room. "For the first time in 30 years, he was able to ask me directly, once again, 'What do those lyrics -- Over and over the crow flies, uncover the cornfield -- mean?'" Parks said about that meeting in '95. "And I was  able to tell him, once again, 'I don't know.' I have no idea what those words mean. I was perhaps thinking of Van Gogh's wheat field or an idealized agrarian environment. Maybe I meant nothing, but I was trying to follow Brian Wilson's vision at that time." Parks says Love asked if he could fly back to L.A. in the plane with him. "We had a nice chat and he insisted that he wanted to split the cost of the flight with me, so he gave me a card with his number on it. The next morning, I called to discover it was a disconnected number. And that was the last time I saw Mike Love."

[Ron]

To stay angry at somebody for 50 years, you've got to love them.  VDP loves Mike Love.  

[KittyKat]

Van Dyke has told that airplane story in more than one place. He would have had to pay that money if Mike had not flown to LA with him. The guy is just obsessed with the Beach Boys. He mentions them often on Twitter.

[Cam Mott]

I wonder why Melcher/BRI didn't cover those costs? VDP was doing Melcher the favor.

[Nicko1234]

I wonder why Melcher/BRI didn't cover those costs? VDP was doing Melcher the favor.

Because he was being paid well as he said himself.

[c-man]

Two problems I see with VDP's assumptions (stated as fact): (1) In '92, the corporate BBs were Brian-Mike-Carl-Al, not Mike-Bruce even if Al was absent from many of the SIP sessions and Brian absent from all of them, and (2) the BBs didn't seem to have any problems with unions the hundreds of times they DID do sessions through the AFM (including several ML solo sessions and other sessions for "Kokomo").

[Nicko1234]

I actually find that comment from VDP quite amusing as the complaint of, `The Beach Boys didn`t give me a dental plan.` is possibly the most pedantic in the history of popular music. 

[Cam Mott]

Two problems I see with VDP's assumptions (stated as fact): (1) In '92, the corporate BBs were Brian-Mike-Carl-Al, not Mike-Bruce even if Al was absent from many of the SIP sessions and Brian absent from all of them, and (2) the BBs didn't seem to have any problems with unions the hundreds of times they DID do sessions through the AFM (including several ML solo sessions and other sessions for "Kokomo").

Craig, Bruce has said that work was started on Kokomo and then Carl got involved and sort of re-recorded it or the tracking or something. Is there any documentation to support or refute that?

[Andrew G. Doe]

All I care about is one thing with Van Dyke. See if somebody here has the correct answer. Cam, do you know about this?

Why didn't Van Dyke Parks contribute an essay to the book that came with The Smile Sessions box in 2011?  He was around for BWPS in '04, contributing additional lyrics and attending the SMiLE show in the UK. Did he really feel that he'd said enough over the years about Smile?  Or did he just not want to take any hoopla/accolades/media press away from Brian after the release? Or did something happen between 2004 and 2011 to alienate VDP from the Brian/Beach Boys camp?  Do you think an essay was prepared but aborted just prior to the book going to the printers?

No.

Or did something happen between 2004 and 2011 to alienate VDP from the Brian/Beach Boys camp?  

The usual suspects were hinting around on here, around that time, that essentially VDP was pissed and threw a hissy fit and declined to be a part of the book at all.  Of course they asked him, either he didn't like the money involved or was pissed at Brian.  

Again, no.

[c-man]

Two problems I see with VDP's assumptions (stated as fact): (1) In '92, the corporate BBs were Brian-Mike-Carl-Al, not Mike-Bruce even if Al was absent from many of the SIP sessions and Brian absent from all of them, and (2) the BBs didn't seem to have any problems with unions the hundreds of times they DID do sessions through the AFM (including several ML solo sessions and other sessions for "Kokomo").

Craig, Bruce has said that work was started on Kokomo and then Carl got involved and sort of re-recorded it or the tracking or something. Is there any documentation to support or refute that?

Maybe he meant vocally? According to the Wikpedia entry for "Kokomo", which I believe draws from engineer Keith Wechsler's recollections, the original vocals were recorded by Mike, Bruce, Terry and Jeff, and that was the demo used to "sell" the song. Carl and Al then replaced Melcher's and Foskett's voices. Do you have Bruce's quote handy somewhere, or recall where it's from?

[Cam Mott]

Two problems I see with VDP's assumptions (stated as fact): (1) In '92, the corporate BBs were Brian-Mike-Carl-Al, not Mike-Bruce even if Al was absent from many of the SIP sessions and Brian absent from all of them, and (2) the BBs didn't seem to have any problems with unions the hundreds of times they DID do sessions through the AFM (including several ML solo sessions and other sessions for "Kokomo").

Craig, Bruce has said that work was started on Kokomo and then Carl got involved and sort of re-recorded it or the tracking or something. Is there any documentation to support or refute that?

Maybe he meant vocally? According to the Wikpedia entry for "Kokomo", which I believe draws from engineer Keith Wechsler's recollections, the original vocals were recorded by Mike, Bruce, Terry and Jeff, and that was the demo used to "sell" the song. Carl and Al then replaced Melcher's and Foskett's voices. Do you have Bruce's quote handy somewhere, or recall where it's from?

No, I apparently didn't save it but my memory is it was a comment on BB Britain or Male Ego and my memory is he was taLking about instrumentation. Anybody else remember or save that?

[hypehat]

Has VDP ever been a part of a bona fide hit record, and if so, more than one?

Just requoting this post because it's so fucking dumb. Why should having a hit record be a marker of artistic success?

[hypehat]

Has VDP ever been a part of a bona fide hit record, and if so, more than one?

VDP is one of the artists that Bougie people want to act like is a genius and to bougie people commercial success is nothing more than a sign that something is appreciated by the stupid, ignorant, unwashed masses.  That's the only way they can subjectively claim that somebody like VDP is better in any possible way than Britney Spears, who... objectively.... is better in every possible way than VDP.

So don't bring up a VDP wasn't commercially successful argument because anybody who's a fan of VDP doesn't care about commercial success.  

Ron, record sales aren't a marker of artistic success.... remember which board we're on when we debate the merits of Friends or Sunflower. They're bad. They charted below the hot 100. Horrible albums. Can't stand them.