Mike and Bruce Tour 2014

[HeyJude]

Mike & Bruce have at least three different setlists tailored to the needs of the occasion:

1 - outdoor fairs/racetrack/festival: meat & potatoes hits for Joe Q. Public. 90 minutes of good-times.

2 - indoor venues: somewhat longer, a few deep cuts.

3 - UK/Europe indoor venues: 50+ songs in over two hours, hits, classics, deep cuts.

Sadly, to me anyway, this is not a selling point for Mike’s band. It undercuts further his lame argument that he “needs” to play those “vital” “small market” gigs. It’s just this circular logic. They “have to” play the hits and a shorter show at some of these gigs. But they book those gigs in the first place. The reality is that the “deep cuts” are a curiosity that someone in Mike’s camp over the last decade has convinced Mike was an interesting curio of a diversion that they could integrate into a relatively small number of their shows each year, to perhaps give his show a bit more “cred” to demographics like the hardcore European fans. I’m sure Mike doesn’t dislike getting into a few different setlist items, but he clearly isn’t motivated primarily by composing a setlist outside of the setlist that he’s been playing for years (with and without the other BB’s), a setlist that writes itself.

Even on the busiest years, Mike’s tour doesn’t play a ton of European dates compares to North America.

This was another really cool think about the 2012 tour. The *shortest* setlist on the entire tour was something like 43 or 44 songs. You were guaranteed to get some interesting songs even in the earliest, shorter, less-interesting setlists. “This Whole World”, “All This Is That”, “Disney Girls”, “I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times”, etc. By the end of the tour, the interesting inclusions like “Good Timin’”, “Marcella”, “Getcha Back”, “California Saga”, “Add Some Music to Your Day” were the rule, not the exception. No “oh well, this area is full of beer swigging bumpkins, let’s drop ¼ of our setlist and add “Surf City” to the surf medley.”

This is kind of sad (and yes, not new in any way) that some fans come away from a Mike show with a bit of a “ah crap, I guess I got Setlist A, the kinda boring one). If guys like Totten or other guys in the band, guys who likely want to play way more deep cuts, have the explanation that they have to play the “meat and potatoes” numbers because of the venue/booking, then we have to trace it back to the fact that Mike books those gigs.

In other words, there’s no explanation or justification for Mike’s standard, most likely-to-be-aired setlist. That is the setlist Mike likes, that works for him and the types of shows he books. If you’re lucky, you’ll get “Setlist B” or “Setlist C” where you’ll get Mike possibly singing a few different tunes, in rare cases Bruce singing something else (usually even then it’s a cover like “Summer Means Fun”), and more likely the backing dudes singing relative “deep cuts” like “Good Timin” or “Cottonfields”, etc.

This is why the idea of Al and Dave joining Mike’s band isn’t terribly interesting. It has way less to do with whether even Brian would be there, and more to do with the fact that we’d just be getting the same Mike touring pattern and setlist pattern. You’d get Dave singing a token song, and Al singing his standard “Rhonda”, bits of “Sloop”, and a few others.

[baseball95]

I feel like Cherry Cherry Coupe and Custom Machine would be perfect songs for them to add to the car section but I think for some reason Mike refuses to play them, I think Scott said that in some interview he did. Those would be perfect to do!

[HeyJude]

Tears has only ever been played 10 times between 1970-1971, and Deirdre has never been played I believe...sure would be neat if they decided to one of them to the set.

It`s probably unlikely. Bruce has said in the past that he regretted giving either of these songs to the group and Disney Girls is the only song of his that he recorded for the group that he has really spoken about with pride in the interviews that I`ve read.

For whatever reason, Bruce has *never* played a big role in Beach Boys shows, especially since rejoining in late 1978. It would be interesting to tabulate all of the available setlists, but I’d bet if you averaged his “leads per show” since 1978, it would be somewhere between “0.25” and “1.”

“Disney Girls” at some venues, “I Write the Songs” from time to time, “Wendy” sometimes, “Summer Means Fun” occasionally over the years, he took over “God Only Knows” for a few years after Carl, he did “Please Let Me Wonder” for a tour or two, and after that, apart from lead vocal bits during songs (“Summer in Paradise”), you get into relatively obscure stuff like “Hey Little Cobra” in 1986, or other on-and-off inclusions. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mike & Bruce have at least three different setlists tailored to the needs of the occasion:

1 - outdoor fairs/racetrack/festival: meat & potatoes hits for Joe Q. Public. 90 minutes of good-times.

2 - indoor venues: somewhat longer, a few deep cuts.

3 - UK/Europe indoor venues: 50+ songs in over two hours, hits, classics, deep cuts.

Sadly, to me anyway, this is not a selling point for Mike’s band. It undercuts further his lame argument that he “needs” to play those “vital” “small market” gigs. It’s just this circular logic. They “have to” play the hits and a shorter show at some of these gigs. But they book those gigs in the first place. The reality is that the “deep cuts” are a curiosity that someone in Mike’s camp over the last decade has convinced Mike was an interesting curio of a diversion that they could integrate into a relatively small number of their shows each year, to perhaps give his show a bit more “cred” to demographics like the hardcore European fans. I’m sure Mike doesn’t dislike getting into a few different setlist items, but he clearly isn’t motivated primarily by composing a setlist outside of the setlist that he’s been playing for years (with and without the other BB’s), a setlist that writes itself.

Even on the busiest years, Mike’s tour doesn’t play a ton of European dates compares to North America.

This was another really cool think about the 2012 tour. The *shortest* setlist on the entire tour was something like 43 or 44 songs. You were guaranteed to get some interesting songs even in the earliest, shorter, less-interesting setlists. “This Whole World”, “All This Is That”, “Disney Girls”, “I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times”, etc. By the end of the tour, the interesting inclusions like “Good Timin’”, “Marcella”, “Getcha Back”, “California Saga”, “Add Some Music to Your Day” were the rule, not the exception. No “oh well, this area is full of beer swigging bumpkins, let’s drop ¼ of our setlist and add “Surf City” to the surf medley.”

This is kind of sad (and yes, not new in any way) that some fans come away from a Mike show with a bit of a “ah crap, I guess I got Setlist A, the kinda boring one). If guys like Totten or other guys in the band, guys who likely want to play way more deep cuts, have the explanation that they have to play the “meat and potatoes” numbers because of the venue/booking, then we have to trace it back to the fact that Mike books those gigs.

In other words, there’s no explanation or justification for Mike’s standard, most likely-to-be-aired setlist. That is the setlist Mike likes, that works for him and the types of shows he books. If you’re lucky, you’ll get “Setlist B” or “Setlist C” where you’ll get Mike possibly singing a few different tunes, in rare cases Bruce singing something else (usually even then it’s a cover like “Summer Means Fun”), and more likely the backing dudes singing relative “deep cuts” like “Good Timin” or “Cottonfields”, etc.

This is why the idea of Al and Dave joining Mike’s band isn’t terribly interesting. It has way less to do with whether even Brian would be there, and more to do with the fact that we’d just be getting the same Mike touring pattern and setlist pattern. You’d get Dave singing a token song, and Al singing his standard “Rhonda”, bits of “Sloop”, and a few others.

Um... as politely as I can... tosh. And nonsense.

Consider - M&B are booked into the Joe Q. Public Fresh Fish Emporium & Used Car Center in Hooterville, and the decision is made to play a 90 minute setlist of deep cuts. Cue a couple of thousand terminally confused punters who most decidedly won't be repeat customers. It's very simple - you play to the audience. Even Brian - whisper it softly - has been known to play a mostly GH setlist at festivals and the like.

[Niko]

Then they can keep the hit oriented setlist for the Fish Emporium, but why not open things up a bit for the indoor theaters? I saw them at a wonderful venue, with crystal clear sound (probably the best theatre I've ever been in actually) and it was 75 minutes of hits. I have the setlist on my wall, lemme type it out.

Do it again
Catch
Hawaii
Surf City
Safari
Surfer Girl
Dont Worry
Deuce
409
Shut Down
Get Around
Room
God
Cal Dreamin
Sloop
Cal Girls
Kissed Her
Nice
Vibes
Rhonda
Rock Roll
Wanna Dance
Barbarra Ann
Surfin USA
Kokomo
Fun Fun Fun

They performed the songs exceptionally well, lots of energy and they were all in good voice. But a 75 minute string of hits was really underwhelming. I heard quite a bit of mumbling after the curtain came down of "wow...its over already?" For a fan, it really felt half baked...it was basically the track listing of Sound of Summer. How can Mike himself not be tired of these setlists?

Here's one from 1983, 30 years ago before the setlist I posted:

California Girls
I Can Hear Music
Sloop John B
Darlin'
Dance, Dance, Dance
Wouldn't It Be Nice
You're So Good to Me
The Warmth of the Sun
God Only Knows
What You Do to Me
409
Shut Down
The Little Old Lady From Pasadena
Little Deuce Coupe
I Get Around
Runaway
Surfer Girl
Come Go with Me
Rockin' All Over the World
Help Me, Rhonda
Rock and Roll Music
Surfin' Safari
Surf City
Surfin' U.S.A.
Encore:
Good Vibrations
Barbara Ann
Fun, Fun, Fun

I'm just whining that I want setlist closer to what I want played, but I honestly don't understand the lack of variation considering the quantity of quality in The Beach Boys songbook.

[filledeplage]

Mike & Bruce have at least three different setlists tailored to the needs of the occasion:

1 - outdoor fairs/racetrack/festival: meat & potatoes hits for Joe Q. Public. 90 minutes of good-times.

2 - indoor venues: somewhat longer, a few deep cuts.

3 - UK/Europe indoor venues: 50+ songs in over two hours, hits, classics, deep cuts.

Sadly, to me anyway, this is not a selling point for Mike’s band. It undercuts further his lame argument that he “needs” to play those “vital” “small market” gigs. It’s just this circular logic. They “have to” play the hits and a shorter show at some of these gigs. But they book those gigs in the first place. The reality is that the “deep cuts” are a curiosity that someone in Mike’s camp over the last decade has convinced Mike was an interesting curio of a diversion that they could integrate into a relatively small number of their shows each year, to perhaps give his show a bit more “cred” to demographics like the hardcore European fans. I’m sure Mike doesn’t dislike getting into a few different setlist items, but he clearly isn’t motivated primarily by composing a setlist outside of the setlist that he’s been playing for years (with and without the other BB’s), a setlist that writes itself.

Even on the busiest years, Mike’s tour doesn’t play a ton of European dates compares to North America.

This was another really cool think about the 2012 tour. The *shortest* setlist on the entire tour was something like 43 or 44 songs. You were guaranteed to get some interesting songs even in the earliest, shorter, less-interesting setlists. “This Whole World”, “All This Is That”, “Disney Girls”, “I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times”, etc. By the end of the tour, the interesting inclusions like “Good Timin’”, “Marcella”, “Getcha Back”, “California Saga”, “Add Some Music to Your Day” were the rule, not the exception. No “oh well, this area is full of beer swigging bumpkins, let’s drop ¼ of our setlist and add “Surf City” to the surf medley.”

This is kind of sad (and yes, not new in any way) that some fans come away from a Mike show with a bit of a “ah crap, I guess I got Setlist A, the kinda boring one). If guys like Totten or other guys in the band, guys who likely want to play way more deep cuts, have the explanation that they have to play the “meat and potatoes” numbers because of the venue/booking, then we have to trace it back to the fact that Mike books those gigs.

In other words, there’s no explanation or justification for Mike’s standard, most likely-to-be-aired setlist. That is the setlist Mike likes, that works for him and the types of shows he books. If you’re lucky, you’ll get “Setlist B” or “Setlist C” where you’ll get Mike possibly singing a few different tunes, in rare cases Bruce singing something else (usually even then it’s a cover like “Summer Means Fun”), and more likely the backing dudes singing relative “deep cuts” like “Good Timin” or “Cottonfields”, etc.

This is why the idea of Al and Dave joining Mike’s band isn’t terribly interesting. It has way less to do with whether even Brian would be there, and more to do with the fact that we’d just be getting the same Mike touring pattern and setlist pattern. You’d get Dave singing a token song, and Al singing his standard “Rhonda”, bits of “Sloop”, and a few others.

Sorry - I'm with Andrew on this one.  The multi-task venues such as the casinos, want people to gamble AND see a show. That is the same with country fairs, and venues that have more than one entertainment agenda.  They want people to use the slot machines, the restaurants, and buy products at the various kiosks in an outdoor venue.  They have the Beach Boys and attractions for people to spend money.

And, further, Andrew is correct about Brian's shows doing a huge volume of greatest hits.  Seriously.  The only exception to this was the Beck run.  It was a pared-down setlist to accommodate both artists.

In the last dozen or so years, David has often "met up" with the Touring Band, as in December of 2011.  Al does many greatest hits in his shows as well.  It is a matter of tried-and-true trial-and-error during hundreds of shows.  The casino people want to party to the hits and play the slots.  They aren't there for the deep cuts.  It is just the way things work successfully.

Those "beer-swilling bumpkins" so pejoratively characterized, are the people who feed us. And the Touring Band, played Wild Honey for them last September. My first country fair.  

[Scott]

If you do a search you will find a post of mine from 2-3 years ago in which I explained that the show length is 100 per cent of the time dictated by the house or promoter, not by Mike.  Mike ALWAYS wants to put on a full-length show and always goes over the requested amount, because he wants to give the audience as much of a show as possible.  IF the house tells Mike "play as long as you want" then it will be a 2-hour or longer show.  I know because I type up the setlist every show.

When you are faced with a 75 minute time limit, it's hard to add rarities at the expense of the more well-known songs.

[Andrew G. Doe]

You're roughly my age, you know the BB from when you were young, they're in town. You go see them, you're going to expect - no, DEMAND - they play these songs:

Surfin' USA
California Girls
Surfer Girl
Little Deuce Coupe
Good Vibrations
God Only Knows
In My Room
Kokomo
Rock & Roll Music
I Can Hear Music
Darlin'
Do It Again
Don't Worry, Baby
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Surfin' Safari
Barbara-fucking-Ann
I Get Around
Sloop John B
Help Me Rhonda
Fun, Fun, Fun
Be True To Your School

Well there's an hours worth and more there. That's what Scott has to work with, for every show - at least 60 minutes of the setlist set in stone. A minimum of 50% that you JUST CANNOT CHANGE. There's about 2700 registered on this list (roughly a full house at the RFH): of those, maybe 100 post anything like regularly, and of those, maybe 25 have more than 3000 posts to their name. My point ? We are a laughingly miniscule percentage of the potential audience, yet we - or rather some of us - imagine we have some divinely bestowed right to hear what we want to and the hell with everyone else. That's arrogant, snobbish and actually pretty sad.

[HeyJude]

Um... as politely as I can... tosh. And nonsense.

Consider - M&B are booked into the Joe Q. Public Fresh Fish Emporium & Used Car Center in Hooterville, and the decision is made to play a 90 minute setlist of deep cuts. Cue a couple of thousand terminally confused punters who most decidedly won't be repeat customers. It's very simple - you play to the audience. Even Brian - whisper it softly - has been known to play a mostly GH setlist at festivals and the like.

I understand why they play the setlists they do once the gig is booked. I understand that promoters/venues, etc. can dictate some or all of the aspects of the setlist.

But the *booking* of the show is not out of the control of Mike. I understand he isn’t personally doing the booking, some other actual agent or staff is literally making calls and booking the shows. But Mike controls the touring operation.

My point was *not* that Mike should be playing “deep cuts” shows at the Cleveland Rib Cook-Off. My point was two-fold: First, perhaps he shouldn’t be booking those “small market” shows if the venues or promoters are so oppressive when it comes to the setlist (especially if Mike so *wants* to play those longer shows with deeper cuts). Secondly, if Mike’s touring operation are inclined to book those shows, then they can’t blame someone else for not being able to do a more interesting setlist, because they are making the decision to book those types of venues year after year after year.

Not all artists book the type of tours where the venues are telling them what songs to play. I’ll totally buy that venues and promoters dictating some or all of the setlist is much more common than one would think, but there are artists out there that either don’t have to answer to anyone else when it comes to selecting their setlist, or, if they do to some degree, they book the type of tour and type of venues where they can play a long enough show to play all the songs they want to. Clearly, at least the latter was the case with the 2012 tour.

I understand the realities of the venues and the audiences at these Beach Boys shows. I’ve followed it closely for years. My only issue is with abdicating responsibility for the type of tour it is and has been for years. It’s absolute “tosh” for anyone who has a say in how these tours are booked to throw their hands up in the air as if to say “hey, it’s not my fault we’ve booked a bunch of shows with drunk spectators who will riot if they hear Bruce play “Your Song” again.” The venues aren’t forcing Mike’s band to book shows at their venues.

I’m sure Mike’s band wants to play those deep cuts for appreciative audiences. They have expressed their desire that they’d love to play more deep cuts at more shows. That’s awesome.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not all artists book the type of tours where the venues are telling them what songs to play. I’ll totally buy that venues and promoters dictating some or all of the setlist is much more common than one would think...

I think you've misunderstood Scott... or me... or both - the venue has no power over what the band plays, rather over how long. Granted, the latter impacts hugely on the former, but I wouldn't want to be the promoter who hands out a list of what he wants the band to play to Scott.  

My point is, Mike's been doing this for longer than a lot of us (sadly, not me) have been alive, and he knows his audiences, knows he can not only get away with but be actively lauded for a show in the UK that would very likely get him tarred and feathered in Hooterville.

[HeyJude]

Not all artists book the type of tours where the venues are telling them what songs to play. I’ll totally buy that venues and promoters dictating some or all of the setlist is much more common than one would think...

I think you've misunderstood Scott... or me... or both - the venue has no power over what the band plays, rather over how long. Granted, the latter impacts hugely on the former, but I wouldn't want to be the promoter who hands out a list of what he wants the band to play to Scott.  

My point is, Mike's been doing this for longer than a lot of us (sadly, not me) have been alive, and he knows his audiences, knows he can not only get away with but be actively lauded for a show in the UK that would very likely get him tarred and feathered in Hooterville.

Agreed. They are related issues but not one and the same. But to my main point: If Mike wants to play “long” shows, then he can stop booking shows that put a time limit, or such an extreme time limit, on his shows. So rather than “the venues are telling me what to play”, if the excuse is actually “the venue is only letting us play for 75 minutes”, and someone (such as Mike) wants to play long shows and give the audience value for their money, then they can book shows and venues that allow for that. Why don’t they? They’d no doubt play fewer shows, to smaller audiences, in fewer cities. I’m not even suggesting whether that is preferable. But the root of it all is the choice to book the types of shows and tours that they do.

In the same vein, to the degree “fault” needs to be applied years after the fact (there isn’t much need at all of course), Carl and Al had a hand in agreeing to play tours when they were in the band that resulted in some of the stale, rote setlists and performances of the 80’s and 90’s.

[HeyJude]

Sorry - I'm with Andrew on this one.  The multi-task venues such as the casinos, want people to gamble AND see a show. That is the same with country fairs, and venues that have more than one entertainment agenda.  They want people to use the slot machines, the restaurants, and buy products at the various kiosks in an outdoor venue.  They have the Beach Boys and attractions for people to spend money.

And, further, Andrew is correct about Brian's shows doing a huge volume of greatest hits.  Seriously.  The only exception to this was the Beck run.  It was a pared-down setlist to accommodate both artists.

In the last dozen or so years, David has often "met up" with the Touring Band, as in December of 2011.  Al does many greatest hits in his shows as well.  It is a matter of tried-and-true trial-and-error during hundreds of shows.  The casino people want to party to the hits and play the slots.  They aren't there for the deep cuts.  It is just the way things work successfully.

Those "beer-swilling bumpkins" so pejoratively characterized, are the people who feed us. And the Touring Band, played Wild Honey for them last September. My first country fair.  

I understand the setlist issue well. I’ve been to many shows, listened to hundreds of shows, have read setlists and reviews and accounts of hundreds and hundreds of shows. I’ve been to shows where it’s clear they’d just as soon hear “Barbara Ann” sprinkled into the setlist about a half dozen times. I know *why*, in most cases, a setlist is structured the way it is at any given venue and any point over the years.

My issue is simple: If they are going to book that type of tour, with all of the associated characteristics of such tours, then they have to own that decision. Mike himself isn’t making any apologies for having to knock out a 75 minute show with the meat-and-potatoes material; but fans are a bit. What I’m reading is fans pointing to the nature of the venues and audiences, when perhaps they should be pointing to the original decision to play those venues, because we can all agree with what AGD mentioned: There are expectations from the audience when it comes to the setlist, there are obvious realities of what type of show can be played. I think most of us understand that. AGD does, I do, Mike Love certainly does. It’s common sense, and something that any BB fan with more than a passing knowledge of the band and their shows would know.

“Beer swilling bumpkins”, by the way, was a purposely hyperbolic statement, making light how those masses can be characterized by the more jaded, cynical (and some would say realistic) fan, and did not refer to any particular audience.

Having been to many shows in many venues with many different types of audiences, most all of them contain varying amounts of beer swilling bumpkins. Concerts attract that. I don’t swill the beer, but anyone else is free to call me a bumpkin if they want. 

[Mikie]

You get into relatively obscure stuff like “Hey Little Cobra” in 1986, or other on-and-off inclusions. 

Not to be picky here, but I think having "Hey Little Cobra" in the set was justified. The song was hardly obscure - going to #4 on Billboard, one of the highest ranking car songs of all time. Plus, Bruce Johnston sang on the original record. And though Bruce only sang backgrounds on it, another song that was in the Beach Boys' set for quite awhile was "GTO", which also went to #4 on the charts in '64.

[Mikie]

“Beer swilling bumpkins”.

We use to call them "Country Bumpkins".  Now, I think they refer to them as "Rednecks".  It's OK - nothing wrong with that.....

[HeyJude]

You get into relatively obscure stuff like “Hey Little Cobra” in 1986, or other on-and-off inclusions. 

Not to be picky here, but I think having "Hey Little Cobra" in the set was justified. The song was hardly obscure - going to #4 on Billboard, one of the highest ranking car songs of all time. Plus, Bruce Johnston sang on the original record. And though Bruce only sang backgrounds on it, another song that was in the Beach Boys' set for quite awhile was "GTO", which also went to #4 on the charts in '64.

Oh, I definitely only meant that it was "obscure" relative to a typical BB setlist over the years. Sort of like if they performed "Bohemian Rhapsody" or "Dead Man's Curve" or "Ice Ice Baby", those would relatively obscure titles compared to what has been in the setlist over the years.

[tpesky]

I consider it a real treat when Mike and Bruce appear near me in a small theatre ( as they will be on Friday in Torrington, CT) because that's where they really get into the great setlists. Intimate venue, great acoustics. My favorite Mike and Bruce concert ever was here in 2005 or 06 ( they haven't played there since) and I'm really looking forward to Friday.

[Pretty Funky]

I'm not sure if I should be offended or not! The C50 show I went to had I think 53 songs and the swilling of beer! Of course it was in Australia so what should one expect?

[Nicko1234]

I understand the setlist issue well. I’ve been to many shows, listened to hundreds of shows, have read setlists and reviews and accounts of hundreds and hundreds of shows. I’ve been to shows where it’s clear they’d just as soon hear “Barbara Ann” sprinkled into the setlist about a half dozen times. I know *why*, in most cases, a setlist is structured the way it is at any given venue and any point over the years.

My issue is simple: If they are going to book that type of tour, with all of the associated characteristics of such tours, then they have to own that decision. Mike himself isn’t making any apologies for having to knock out a 75 minute show with the meat-and-potatoes material; but fans are a bit. What I’m reading is fans pointing to the nature of the venues and audiences, when perhaps they should be pointing to the original decision to play those venues, because we can all agree with what AGD mentioned: There are expectations from the audience when it comes to the setlist, there are obvious realities of what type of show can be played. I think most of us understand that. AGD does, I do, Mike Love certainly does. It’s common sense, and something that any BB fan with more than a passing knowledge of the band and their shows would know.

“Beer swilling bumpkins”, by the way, was a purposely hyperbolic statement, making light how those masses can be characterized by the more jaded, cynical (and some would say realistic) fan, and did not refer to any particular audience.

Having been to many shows in many venues with many different types of audiences, most all of them contain varying amounts of beer swilling bumpkins. Concerts attract that. I don’t swill the beer, but anyone else is free to call me a bumpkin if they want. 

I haven`t seen anyone making apologies. Just stating the facts.

If you go to see an M&B show at a casino or outside venue then you know exactly what to expect. The hits.

[RubberSoul13]

Tears has only ever been played 10 times between 1970-1971, and Deirdre has never been played I believe...sure would be neat if they decided to one of them to the set.

It`s probably unlikely. Bruce has said in the past that he regretted giving either of these songs to the group and Disney Girls is the only song of his that he recorded for the group that he has really spoken about with pride in the interviews that I`ve read.

For whatever reason, Bruce has *never* played a big role in Beach Boys shows, especially since rejoining in late 1978. It would be interesting to tabulate all of the available setlists, but I’d bet if you averaged his “leads per show” since 1978, it would be somewhere between “0.25” and “1.”

“Disney Girls” at some venues, “I Write the Songs” from time to time, “Wendy” sometimes, “Summer Means Fun” occasionally over the years, he took over “God Only Knows” for a few years after Carl, he did “Please Let Me Wonder” for a tour or two, and after that, apart from lead vocal bits during songs (“Summer in Paradise”), you get into relatively obscure stuff like “Hey Little Cobra” in 1986, or other on-and-off inclusions. 

Actually, I saw Bruce take on more leads than ever last summer....

-Summer Means Fun
-Surfer Girl
-Sloop John B
-Disney Girls
-God Only Knows
-Do You Wanna Dance

I know it's still not a lot, but he is a rather dominant vocal presence on stage. He's responsible for a fair amount of falsetto and very audible backing/harmony vocals. Now his keyboard playing.......

[Ron]

I think they get a lot more casual fans, and when you're a pro who's done this sh*t for 50 years it probably gets old singing a song and nobody in the crowd is into it.  It just comes down to their personalities, more creative people yeah would probably play more album cuts, but for the few fans who'd appreciate it you'd bore the rest of the audience.  Mike's all about pleasing the masses...  I saw them years ago back before I was anything more than a casual fan and I thought they were fucking AWESOME so I imagine casual fans still feel that way.

[KittyKat]

Doesn't the holder of the tour license have a legal duty to BRI to maximize their touring revenue? Why would they want to book fewer or smaller venues for the sake of artistic quality? I'm sure part of the reason Brian voted to give Mike the license is because he's a reliable moneymaker at a variety of mainstream type of venues.

[Pretty Funky]

I don't know who makes the decision but Mike and Bruce have done shows with full symphony orchestras. Without looking up set lists, those gigs would have more than just the hits I imagine. 

[HeyJude]

Doesn't the holder of the tour license have a legal duty to BRI to maximize their touring revenue? Why would they want to book fewer or smaller venues for the sake of artistic quality? I'm sure part of the reason Brian voted to give Mike the license is because he's a reliable moneymaker at a variety of mainstream type of venues.

There are likely some provisions in the license outlining some characteristics of the show that uses the name. But it would have to be pretty specific. What constitutes “maximizing” profits? Mike and Bruce do a ton of shows, but they could technically book even more. Where would that line be? If such a provision were written into a license, it would have to be more specific, such as booking “x” number of dates. However, even that would seem to get dicey. What happens if or when it’s simply not possible to book that many shows? What if demand dips a bit?

What I do remember is, back in the 1999-2000 trademark lawsuit days, there were some “expectations” cited in court paperwork that may or may not have been actual legal requirements of the license, having to do with the “type” of songs being performed for instance. Some court paperwork cited, and I’m very loosely paraphrasing/summing up, that Al was not properly representing the BB trademark because he was essentially playing less recognizable songs, the “deep cuts.” I believe the documentation cited *not* Al’s lack of playing “hits”, but specifically playing less identifiably “Beach Boys” style songs, “sun, surf, cars” and the like, as if playing the “deep cuts” even alongside many hits was damaging the trademark.

It also mentioned the presence of female singers as being unrepresentative as well. I know the latter point in particular was cited in subsequent years by Al as well, and he seemed to be offended by it (as well he should have been) and indicated it was one of the reasons the Wilson sisters ended up exiting from his band.

It’s also important to remember, and this will perhaps for better or worse lure Cam into this discussion, that clearly a bunch of points were being made against Al at that time not based on the principle of some of those issues, but simply to find legal points to make against Al (which is the point of legal action of course). In subsequent tours, Mike’s own tour ended up on select tours playing as many or more “rare”, “less recognizable” tracks as Al’s “Family and Friends” show was. One could even argue years later Mike to a very small degree integrated a “non-conformist” female voice to his show by having his daughter sing a track or two.

Ironically, the band’s own anniversary tour years later integrated many of songs that BRI had contended back in 1999/2000 would injure the trademark.

Ultimately, I would guess there are general guidelines written into the standing license created back around 1999, and they probably aren’t enforced at all unless one or more parties within BRI care to contest something. A bunch of stuff was in contention back in 1999, but it isn’t now.

[lee]

I can see points on both sides but there are always compromises. You can say too many deep cuts would detract the casual fan and that is probably true. With some people though, there arguments about the generic setlist is always about the "casual fan". What about the "actual fan"? You know, the people who have also supported your career by purchasing every reissued album, every umpteenth hits package, every box set, every dvd, merchandise from the shows, people who shell out $$$ for meet and greet packages, etc. There should be some consideration for these fans as well. 

Below is a pretty basic 25 song setlist with some deeper cuts thrown in that I think would work. No such thing as perfect but it works. It's not a complete "deep cut" setlist but there is enough there to make the set more appealing to fans and there is still plenty of meat and potatoes there. Who knows, the casual fan might hear something they don't know and like it. That may get them to actual check out and purchase more of The Beach Boys catalog rather than the Sounds of Summer cd. I couldn't care less about The Beach Boys until a friend let me borrow their Friends & 20/20 twofer. After that was Sunflower and I was completely hooked. It still took me about a year of listening to post '66 material every day to open up to the pre '66 material. My mom is a very, very casual fan of The Beach Boys. I made her a compilation a couple years ago on cd to listen to in her car. Her favorite BB song for the past two years has been Lady (fallin' in love).

Do It Again
California Girls
Hawaii
Catch A Wave
Surfin' Safari
Surfin' USA
Little Deuce Coupe
Shut Down
Please Let Me Wonder
Getcha Back
Help Me, Rhonda
Wouldn't It Be Nice
The Warmth Of The Sun
God Only Knows
Here Today
Deirdre
Sloop John B
All I Wanna Do
Surfer Girl
Dance, Dance, Dance
Kokomo
I Get Around
Fun, Fun, Fun
Wild Honey
Good Vibrations

[Nicko1234]

There are likely some provisions in the license outlining some characteristics of the show that uses the name. But it would have to be pretty specific. What constitutes “maximizing” profits? Mike and Bruce do a ton of shows, but they could technically book even more. Where would that line be? If such a provision were written into a license, it would have to be more specific, such as booking “x” number of dates. However, even that would seem to get dicey. What happens if or when it’s simply not possible to book that many shows? What if demand dips a bit?

What I do remember is, back in the 1999-2000 trademark lawsuit days, there were some “expectations” cited in court paperwork that may or may not have been actual legal requirements of the license, having to do with the “type” of songs being performed for instance. Some court paperwork cited, and I’m very loosely paraphrasing/summing up, that Al was not properly representing the BB trademark because he was essentially playing less recognizable songs, the “deep cuts.” I believe the documentation cited *not* Al’s lack of playing “hits”, but specifically playing less identifiably “Beach Boys” style songs, “sun, surf, cars” and the like, as if playing the “deep cuts” even alongside many hits was damaging the trademark.

It also mentioned the presence of female singers as being unrepresentative as well. I know the latter point in particular was cited in subsequent years by Al as well, and he seemed to be offended by it (as well he should have been) and indicated it was one of the reasons the Wilson sisters ended up exiting from his band.

It’s also important to remember, and this will perhaps for better or worse lure Cam into this discussion, that clearly a bunch of points were being made against Al at that time not based on the principle of some of those issues, but simply to find legal points to make against Al (which is the point of legal action of course). In subsequent tours, Mike’s own tour ended up on select tours playing as many or more “rare”, “less recognizable” tracks as Al’s “Family and Friends” show was. One could even argue years later Mike to a very small degree integrated a “non-conformist” female voice to his show by having his daughter sing a track or two.

Ironically, the band’s own anniversary tour years later integrated many of songs that BRI had contended back in 1999/2000 would injure the trademark.

Ultimately, I would guess there are general guidelines written into the standing license created back around 1999, and they probably aren’t enforced at all unless one or more parties within BRI care to contest something. A bunch of stuff was in contention back in 1999, but it isn’t now.

As you`ve said, if they did complain about Al performing rarer songs it was just as a legal thing (especially as Al performed very few rare songs in his setlists).